YOUNGSTOWN — A group is working to put a charter amendment on the Nov. 8 ballot asking voters to reinstate term limits for city council members.

“How is someone supposed to run against an incumbent who has a lot of friends who vote them back in or have a lot of money? You can’t beat them,” said John White, who organized the citizens initiative with his wife, Amber, and Pat Porter, who used to run the Buckeye Eyes & Ears Block Watch.

“A new person might have better ideas, but doesn’t get the chance,” he said. “This way you’ll have new ideas and new visions.”

Mike Ray, the longest current serving city councilman, said: “Stability in government is important. Term limits had a great goal initially, but it didn’t achieve what it wanted to achieve. In no other business would you want complete turnover. There are term limits. It’s called people are voted out.”

During Ray’s nearly 11 years on council, he’s worked with four mayors, four police chiefs and four law directors.

“We need stability on council,” he said. “People with the longevity are the bureaucrats. The level of maturity that has been achieved by council after working together for so long is important.”

White said his group has about 3,000 signatures on the citizen initiative petitions. It needs to have at least 804 valid signatures and have the petitions include proper language to be on the Nov. 8 ballot.

The proposal would limit council members to serve for two consecutive four-year terms and be eligible for election after an intervening term, effective Jan. 1, 2023.

All council members are up for election in the November 2023 election. If the proposal is successful, the term limits restriction would start with that election.

White said his group will turn in the petitions Monday to the city clerk, as required by the city charter.

If the petition language is deemed to be correct, council would vote as a formality at its Aug. 24 election to accept the petitions and turn them over to the Mahoning County Board of Elections to determine if there are enough valid signatures. The elections board has until Aug. 30 to vote on certification.

City council, council president and the mayor had two four-year term limits approved by voters in the late 1980s with the ability to run again after sitting out for an intervening term.

Voters eliminated term limits for the mayor in a Nov. 6, 2012, vote with 61.87 percent backing the removal. That proposal was recommended to council by a charter review commission.

In the Nov. 6, 2018, election, voters agreed to eliminate term limits for council members with 51.05 percent support and for council president with 51.98 percent of voters supporting it. Putting those two items on the ballot that year was initiated by city council.

White said while collecting signatures, a majority of those who signed weren’t aware of the 2018 charter amendments to eliminate term limits for council and council president. About 15,000 people voted on those amendments.

If the council term limits provision fails in November, White said his group won’t seek to put it on the ballot again.

But regardless of the outcome, White said they are going to collect signatures for charter amendments on the 2023 ballot to reinstate term limits for the mayor and council president.

White sought to run last year for mayor as an independent, but was ruled ineligible because he voted in the Democratic primary after filing nominating petitions and because he didn’t meet a qualification in the city charter of being an elector in Youngstown for five years. His wife, Amber, staged a write-in campaign and finished third.

dskolnick@vindy.com