HOWLAND — How do you condense a friendship that’s lasted 60 years by two people who have been involved in activities of cultural and historical significance over that same amount of time?

Modern Props founder John Zabrucky and Devo’s Gerald V. Casale tried to do that during a “May 4th Conversation” Sunday evening at the Medici Museum. It was moderated by Andy Gray, Entertainment Editor for the Tribune Chronicle and The Vindicator.

“It means so much. We don’t make many lasting alliances in life to mean anything,” Casale said during an interview before the public event. “It’s wonderful when something like that happens, and it has nothing to do with money or status or anything. It has to do with a true, primal bond.

“We’re simpatico, our skill sets. We’re different, but similar, and together, they made something even better. We had similar tastes in everything and similar values in life, and we just truly respected each other, which is very rare.”

The longtime friends discussed their college years, collaborations and careers, but the main topic concerned what happened around the Kent State University campus before and during the tragic day when four students were killed by Ohio National Guardsmen.

Zabrucky insisted that if there would be an event featuring the two to discuss that occurrence it should land on the 55th anniversary of the shootings.

Funds raised from “May 4th Conversation” benefited the building of a planned Museum of Science Fiction and Fantasy Arts in Warren that will house Zabrucky’s decades of work in the sci-fi and fantasy film and television industries that included “Blade Runner,” “Ghostbusters,” “Men in Black,” “Batman Returns,” “Spider-Man 2” and various “Star Trek” properties. In 2023, he donated more than 500 props to the Trumbull County Historical Society, which sparked the idea for the science fiction museum.

A selection of his pieces is on display at the Medici in the exhibition “Sci-Fi + Hollywood: The Art of John Zabrucky.”

Both were present on May 4, 1970, on the KSU campus. Despite standing in front of the Ohio National Guard, the shots were fired above them and toward other KSU students — some who were protesters, and others just curious onlookers.

Casale pointed out that what got reported the next day wasn’t the reality of the situation. He described previous protests as a ritual of sorts that mainly involved tear gas canisters and admitted that rocks were thrown on May 4, but they did not reach the troops.

“That was the situation that day, and it was life changing. Frankly, I probably had a nervous breakdown, but didn’t know that was a word for it, because seeing the results of M1 bullets in bodies and exit wounds and the blood running down the sidewalk, and you’re 20…you get reduced to a little scared rabbit, shaking.

“I just sat down in the grass shaking for a long time until we were led off campus with double rows of Guardsmen,” Casale said.

Intelligent but pragmatic, Casale took what happened that day to influence his art. The idea of “de-evolution” — humanity evolving backwards — was hatched because of the shootings. Originally, it was the basis of performance art then a short film with Zabrucky’s assistance before it fully transitioned to the musical unit Devo from Akron, which grew to become an international and influential sensation with such hits as “Whip It,” (I Can’t Get Me No) Satisfaction,” “Beautiful World,” “Girl U Want” and more.

Casale’s appearance took place on a day off during Devo’s nationwide tour.

“It started as a political and artistic rebellion, and I realized after the killings at Kent State that if you responded to that horror by getting more militant politically, like The Weatherman (members of the militant organization Weather Underground), you would end up in jail or dead. So, this wasn’t a viable thing for me.

“I had to come up with a creative response. So, Devo was trying to be subversive but be in play as some force that could do something rather than just whose voice would be obliterated.”

It was striking how vividly the two recalled their shared history, including art projects from college, Zabrucky’s assistance in getting Devo a recording contract, collaborations with the band and Modern Props.

“It was really never taken apart correctly,” Zabrucky said. “It was never really talked about directly by… it’s always been a mystery to me. To this day, I just don’t…One of the pieces I’ve been working on for years has to do with May 4, but May 4th of the future with predator drones.”

At one point, Zabrucky asked if Jim Minard was among the capacity crowd of approximately 110 people. Minard, who traveled more than 1,000 miles to make the event, went onstage while Zabrucky left it, only to return with a photo he took of his friend when they were protesting the Vietnam War in Washington, D.C.

Fighting back tears, Minard, who served two years in Vietnam before attending KSU, said, “Instantaneous memories jump back into your head. I went over to the site today. It was the first time I’d been there in 55 years.

Near the end of the conversation, members of the Warren Rotary Club presented Zabrucky, a 1965 Warren G. Harding graduate, with a certificate he received from Warren Rotary Club members Cindy Matheson (president), Tony Ianucci (president-elect) and Ken LaPolla (former president) at the conclusion of the May 4th Conversation Sunday evening at Medici Museum. Matheson gave him the Les Stauffer Community Service Award for non-Rotary members “for his or her outstanding service and contribution to our beautiful city.”

She added, “Your contribution to the museum is a big part of our future of Warren. We expect thousands of people to visit our town in the next few years to see that museum and your props. That would provide a huge boost for our local economy. The museum will also inspire the next generation of scientists, engineers and explorers. Science fiction takes us on journeys to new worlds, but the memory of those adventures needs a permanent home, and now Warren will be that home.”

Prompted to comment on the lasting impact of the May 4 shootings, Casale summed up the situation.

“Being here tonight and actually talking about it. Think about that. We’re still talking about it. So, it got remembered.”