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« Stirfry

GOP spin on SB 5 signature drive won’t work

By Bertram de Souza (Contact)


Published June 22, 2011

By any measure, the 714,137 signatures secured thus far to put the collective-bargaining overhaul bill on the November general election ballot are historic. And, when — not if, but when — the proponents of the campaign to repeal Senate Bill 5 file 1 million-plus signatures by month’s end, the message will be unmistakable.

The Republican majority in the General Assembly and Republican Gov. John Kasich, who pushed through the measure to restrict collective bargaining for 360,000 public workers in Ohio, can pretend not to care, but an objective view leads to this conclusion: SB 5 has woken a sleeping giant in the form of the labor unions, their Democratic Party allies and Ohio’s public employees.

To put this signature drive in perspective: Seven years ago, when Republicans decided to push a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman, they were able to secure 400,000 signatures, of which 30 percent were declared invalid. The GOPers had to submit an additional 144,000 signatures to meet the legal requirement for placing the amendment on the ballot.’

It is noteworthy that the proponents of the so-called marriage protection campaign went around the state warning of swarms of homosexuals and lesbians coming into Ohio from around the country to get married and, by their mere presence here, infecting our children. Even so, the signature drive was unimpressive.

To be sure, the amendment passed, — but that’s because the Republicans used the issue to bring out thousands of rural and new voters during that presidential election.

If the opponents of SB 5 do file million-plus signatures, Gov. Kasich and Republicans in the General Assembly will know that they will have a fight on their hands come November.


Comments

1Tigerlily(488 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Bertram, you say: "SB 5 has woken a sleeping giant in the form of the labor unions, their Democratic Party allies and Ohio’s public employees."

This is a true statement devoid of one big fact: many Republicans are also very much against this heinous bill. They understand that it is in no one's best interest to destroy labor unions, nor to devalue and demoralize your state employees. Those many signatures have an incredible amount of Republican and Independent voter support among them.

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2AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

""If the opponents of SB 5 do file million-plus signatures, Gov. Kasich and Republicans in the General Assembly will know that they will have a fight on their hands come November.""

NOT IF 1 million ""WHEN""

SB5 will go away in November

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3Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

What will be historic are the taxes that we be needed to pay for the largesse to government workers . . ..

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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4Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Liberal crap gets to be OS . The taxpayers pay for the largesse and get what ? PHD in stupidity ? Well the taxpayers are feeling the pain of the economy and it has made them much smarter .

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5piak(508 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

SB 5 got a good chance of staying as a law.

You guys must live in a parallel universe. This bill is not to break up the unions. No!

It's to get a handle on some parts of the negotiations. I was driving through Austintown a couple of weeks ago. There was a truck with an anti-SB 5 sign on it. That's okay, but it was parked at the old high school on Mahoning Ave. I'm not sure Austintown sold that building, so it must still be school property. Their BOE sure gave the Austintowners the finger on that!
Isn't the BOE supposed to represent the people of the township? They took sides!

And Betras crapped a brick over the Chamber being in favor of the SB 5?

Some of my Austintown buddies told me they'll remember this next time there's a levy. Pay attention BOE, you chose your side. And it wasn't the taxpayer who isn't in on the "gravy".

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6VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

.............very interesting

http://business-journal.com/kasich-ti...

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7Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Want more money ? The answer is productivity . Right now they want more of what the productive make so those on the public payroll can be nourished while you are further impoverished .

CREATE MORE PRODUCTIVE JOBS TO GET MORE MONEY !

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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8SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

DOWN with SB5 the anti worker, middle class, for the elite rich bill that will destroy Ohio bill.

CHA CHA CHA CHA CHA CCCHHHIINNNNGGG!

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9RobertAlphonso(74 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Supporters of SB 5 Please tell me what savings will come as a result?

The only thing you can point to is a flawed study from the administration.

Look at the way the reich-wing runs charter schools: The teachers make very little compared to public school teachers, yet the "Managers" and CEO's are WAYYY overpaid. The result: Charters cost taxpayers a lot more than public schools per student.

The same will be true for their vision of a "merit pay" government. People who actually do the jobs that help run the state will get their pay cut but "managers" and political hacks will be handsomely rewarded. The result: NO SAVINGS and likely even higher costs.

piak - you live in a parallel universe if you believe that SB won't destroy public sector unions.

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10Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

The savy taxpayers know that repealing SB 5 is all about nurturing the public sector employees while impoverishing him and her with higher taxes . . . ..

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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11AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Close to a MILLION.......

SB5 will be voted away..............

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12ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

1 million divided by 360K = 2.77778 ???

How hard is it for most to get their spouse and 3/4 of one of their parents/relatives to sign the petition.
Apparently not hard, but if you think about it I would have my spouse both parents of both of us and a few brothers and sisters and their spouses, x 360K how much would that equal? Oh about 7.5 million + or - few.

So I guess it wasn't such a great feat after all if you put it all in context.

Nice way to over sensationalize it anyway.

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13commoncitizen(961 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

It's amazing that a lot,if not all, teachers unions are hurrying to get thier contracts signed BEFORE SB5 goes into law. If all of you SB5 haters are correct shouldn't the unions be waiting ??

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14LtMacGowan(641 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Its wonderful that so many people have shown their displeasure at S.B. 5 and I do hope it is repealed by a massive margin come november but to answer what Stan said I also hope we raise taxes too. Our public infrastructure stinks, it STINKS. we have a poorly funded public transport system, our educational system is crap and most of the school buildings are falling apart yet we continue to get screwed every year because 51% of the voters vote No on tax levies

"Piss on them, I can't pay an extra hundred dollars a year or so to give our children better teachers, or to build better roads and so on. That HDTV ive been wanting is much more important!"

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15Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Austerity is only for the little people, the common taxpayer working for the private sector . Repeal SB 5 and support the special ones . . ..

TAX THEM TO THE LIMIT ONE MORE TIME !

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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16AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Jesse, good post for Conn.

Not sure what it has to do with Ohio

""Yes, we are on the verge of a total financial collapse,""
Have you been out to boardman/ niles lately? Have you not seen all the Shopping/Dining out going on. This is no where NEAR TOTAL financial collaspe. Things have slowed down, Yes. But look at how many new car sales, thoundsands flying everyday. If it were near Financial collaspe I don't think too many folks would be VACATIONING this summer. I wonder how many thoundsands are entreing Cedar Point at $40 someting a person.

The world is not ending. The financial Banks were well taken care of.

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17theotherside(332 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Public employees are, and have been aware of the budget shortfalls in Ohio. That's why they have taken wage concessions and have been contributing more to health care and pension costs all along. They were prepared for more if the Governor would have talked to them. And under the new pension proposals presently stuck in the legislature, additional concessions exist across the board. They knew they were going to have to give more to make the state work. And what did John Kasich and his cohorts in the legislature do? Hit them over the head with SB 5 and made it a political issue. Fine. They wanted a fight. They have one. And according to the Plain Dealer, they supposedly want to negotiate a deal? Laughable. What John Kasich told organized labor with the stroke of pen was that he didn't care what organized labor thought. He was going to "bust the unions". And now he wants a compromise? Too late for that. This issue has larger national implications that Kasich failed to understand in his calculus at his political peril. This is nothing more than a blatant power grab by the republicans to make the democratic party a permanent minority party by busting unions and defunding the democrats. All at the behest of the plutocrats like the Koch Bros, Scott Walker, Chris Christie, and the rest who wish to make this country beholden to corporations. Fortunately, Ohioans aren't as stupid as John Kasich apparently thought they were.

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18commoncitizen(961 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Talking aboput Christie -didn't the Democrates side with him on thier budget cuts??

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19theotherside(332 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Jessiedavid,

There is no denial. Public employees get it about the need for concessions and financial restraint, responsibility, and the end of the status quo. And they have already suffered cuts and expect more to come. They have all along. Just like they did in Wisconsin. But John Kasich, Scott Walker, Chris Christie and the rest decided to be ideologues instead of bridge builders. Political animals instead of bipartisan partners. Union busters instead of supporters of worker's rights and protections. Creatures controlled by the plutocrat agenda instead of representatives of all people, including organized labor. They would rather be dividers than uniters. John Kasich brought this turmoil to Ohio. Not organized labor. And to make statements about pillaging is nothing more than hyperbole and shilling for Kasich's agenda. We know where you stand. You are entitled to have your opinion. But frankly, your opinion is more of the same old, worn out, republican rhetoric that got us into this turmoil to begin with, and according to over 700000 (likely to be a million) referendum signers who think otherwise, SB 5 will be thrown out in November and John Kasich will be marginalized as a result. And that outcome is nothing more than a failure of leadership on his part and waste for the State of Ohio. And that is a shame for all of us.

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20SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Theotherside,
Lets hope for this countries sake your right. All eyes will be on Ohio this summer and fall watching the re-run of lehamn Bro's failures in the form of Ohio if ....no when SB5 gets voted down. My fear is the wording will be so poor that people will vote against it, yet actually voting to keep it on the books.

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21theotherside(332 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

jay1981,

Here is how it SB 5 is unfair. SB 5 will effectively eliminate collective bargaining. That will be collective begging. Oh, I know the republicans keep saying that public employees can still bargain, but since one side of the negotiation (management) has the final say, there is no reason to believe that management will bargain in good faith so that is not collective bargaining. This will then set precedent that will be applied to all unions which is the over-arching republican goal - to bust unions. Second, and probably a worse result of SB 5, is that it eliminates binding arbitration. This will cost the taxpayers more in the form of litigation costs in the courts because when disputes arise (and they will as they do now) the courts will be the only venue to settle disputes. A much more expensive proposition for the taxpayers. That's why SB 5 is know in legal circles as the "Lawyer Full Employment Act". The 1983 collective bargaining law was enacted to address the very issues SB 5 will reinstate to Ohio public employees, and the taxpayers they serve. Namely, arbitrary and capricious management, cronyism, corruption, and unfair labor practices to name a few. There is no reason to believe that public agency management can be "...trusted to do the right thing..." as the Columbus republicans are fond of saying in response to this. There would be no need for binding arbitration if this was the case now. And don't say that the law will protect workers because labor law will be the next target of "reform". Particularly if the unions die. Is that a chance you are willing to take? To quote that favorite republican Ronald Reagan "...trust, but verify..." and that verification comes from binding arbitration. There are no nebulous outcomes with SB 5 and the unintended consequences are clear. Hardly a fair comparison to the Health Care law, which I agree, remains to be seen. So I'll be voting against SB5. You want to know why? Because it's the right thing for Ohio. (By the way, caps are a form of yelling on the internet. Oh, you knew that didn't you?)

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22AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Jay, sorry if I upset you.

But driving through Boardman looking at the cars in the restaraunt parking lots, seems to be quite a number. Maybe I am wrong, maybe there is not anybody in those restaraunts. It must be all employee vehicles with nothing to do with no patrons.
There were empty store 2 years ago, 6 years ago and 12 years ago. There will always be empty stores as new areas are replacing older stores.

Where did I connect these two?
""and then you equate a $40 ticket to Cedar Point with a $2,000+ vacation package""

What I am saying is there seems to be a lot of EXTRA spending out there for such a FININCIAL COLLASPE as jesse was saying.

If you send you cjild to college and they earn a Masters degree, how much would you hope the make in wages for that? $30,000 for a masters. I certainly hope more then that. $65,000 for a masters degree, sounds more like it.

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23SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

The key point just for four years. It doesn't strip those rights forever! NoSB5 is right on with his facts

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24SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

The Ohio Pension systems are trying to change their systems. However, The Governor and republican leg. have failed to act. Governor Taft approved the current system. It was unrealistic than as it is now.

The plans the retirement boards have will keep it (all five state pensions) for 30 years as law requires.

Remember, A republican approval retirees could get 88.5% of their best three years after 35 years of service. Not Teddy "Boy" Strictland. Now they want you to still work 35 years and collect 66% ( what you could collect at 30 years).

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25Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Repeal SB5 and TAX THEM TO THE LIMIT ONE MORE TIME . The economy should not limit the ability of government workers to get outrageous raises .

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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26hoffa83(1 comment)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Thank you to all of you who support the SB5 repeal effort! I just got the email from we are Ohio. over 1.2million signatures collected 75% from volunteers like myself. I have noticed a common theme here I've seen very few caps (aka internet yelling) from supporters of the repeal. I think this is very annoying to the other side. All the rallies I attended were the same way, very civil people in opposition.
Those of you who are supporting SB5 I'm sure are not well educated on the history of labor in this country. There was no middle class before unions and there will be no middle class without them. I just hope we settle this legislatively because if you know what happened in the early days of the labor movement you know we don't want a repeat.

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