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« Stirfry

GOP spin on SB 5 signature drive won’t work

By Bertram de Souza (Contact)


Published June 22, 2011

By any measure, the 714,137 signatures secured thus far to put the collective-bargaining overhaul bill on the November general election ballot are historic. And, when — not if, but when — the proponents of the campaign to repeal Senate Bill 5 file 1 million-plus signatures by month’s end, the message will be unmistakable.

The Republican majority in the General Assembly and Republican Gov. John Kasich, who pushed through the measure to restrict collective bargaining for 360,000 public workers in Ohio, can pretend not to care, but an objective view leads to this conclusion: SB 5 has woken a sleeping giant in the form of the labor unions, their Democratic Party allies and Ohio’s public employees.

To put this signature drive in perspective: Seven years ago, when Republicans decided to push a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman, they were able to secure 400,000 signatures, of which 30 percent were declared invalid. The GOPers had to submit an additional 144,000 signatures to meet the legal requirement for placing the amendment on the ballot.’

It is noteworthy that the proponents of the so-called marriage protection campaign went around the state warning of swarms of homosexuals and lesbians coming into Ohio from around the country to get married and, by their mere presence here, infecting our children. Even so, the signature drive was unimpressive.

To be sure, the amendment passed, — but that’s because the Republicans used the issue to bring out thousands of rural and new voters during that presidential election.

If the opponents of SB 5 do file million-plus signatures, Gov. Kasich and Republicans in the General Assembly will know that they will have a fight on their hands come November.


Comments

1Tigerlily(492 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Bertram, you say: "SB 5 has woken a sleeping giant in the form of the labor unions, their Democratic Party allies and Ohio’s public employees."

This is a true statement devoid of one big fact: many Republicans are also very much against this heinous bill. They understand that it is in no one's best interest to destroy labor unions, nor to devalue and demoralize your state employees. Those many signatures have an incredible amount of Republican and Independent voter support among them.

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2rocky14(710 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Tigerlily

You are 100% correct.I know Republicans who would NEVER vote for anything the Democrats voted for,but are against SB5.
LOL Kasich

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3AnotherAverageCitizen(1175 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

""If the opponents of SB 5 do file million-plus signatures, Gov. Kasich and Republicans in the General Assembly will know that they will have a fight on their hands come November.""

NOT IF 1 million ""WHEN""

SB5 will go away in November

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4Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

What will be historic are the taxes that we be needed to pay for the largesse to government workers . . ..

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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5rocky14(710 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Keep believing in that conservative crap.The voters of Ohio fell for it once.They won't fall for it again.

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6Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Liberal crap gets to be OS . The taxpayers pay for the largesse and get what ? PHD in stupidity ? Well the taxpayers are feeling the pain of the economy and it has made them much smarter .

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7piak(508 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

SB 5 got a good chance of staying as a law.

You guys must live in a parallel universe. This bill is not to break up the unions. No!

It's to get a handle on some parts of the negotiations. I was driving through Austintown a couple of weeks ago. There was a truck with an anti-SB 5 sign on it. That's okay, but it was parked at the old high school on Mahoning Ave. I'm not sure Austintown sold that building, so it must still be school property. Their BOE sure gave the Austintowners the finger on that!
Isn't the BOE supposed to represent the people of the township? They took sides!

And Betras crapped a brick over the Chamber being in favor of the SB 5?

Some of my Austintown buddies told me they'll remember this next time there's a levy. Pay attention BOE, you chose your side. And it wasn't the taxpayer who isn't in on the "gravy".

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8VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

.............very interesting

http://business-journal.com/kasich-ti...

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9NoBS(1963 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

What's significant about the move to recall SB 5 is the sheer numbers of people involved. The bill affects 360,000 people, yet twice that number have signed petitions to put it on the ballot. Presumably, better than 99% of them have in mind putting it to a vote so it can be repealed. And not every anti-SB 5 person has signed a petition.

Piak, you're drinking Kasich's Kool Aid. SB 5 is about nothing but "breaking the backs of unions" (Kasich's own words). It removes any shred of fairness to the negotiations process. Yeah, yeah, it gives lip service to that they can still negotiate for a couple of things, except that when you look at the new procedure, the new negotiations are nothing but a sham. If they reach an impasse (the point where a neutral, disinterested third party would come in and make a decision based upon the facts presented to him, and ONLY the facts presented to him), the administration gets to pick which side 'wins.' Why even bother?

To the BMW guy - let's eliminate all the pork. That in itself will result in more money than even Obama could spend. Let's restructure the federal income tax and close the loopholes for the rich. More wealth every day flows from the working middle class to the rich and super-rich. When is enough enough?

JessieDavid, I know there's no talking to you, but think about this: people don't want tax increases, and believe they pay too much taxes now. They see how their tax dollars are not even frittered away on foolishness - they're wasted on a mind-numbing scale. From local politicians right up to the federal government, the sentiment is the same: "I'm not giving those {insert favorite expletive here} any more money to waste!!" The universal sentiment is that our leaders do waste the tax money given to them. Correct that, and everything will get better.

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10Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Want more money ? The answer is productivity . Right now they want more of what the productive make so those on the public payroll can be nourished while you are further impoverished .

CREATE MORE PRODUCTIVE JOBS TO GET MORE MONEY !

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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11RobertAlphonso(74 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Supporters of SB 5 Please tell me what savings will come as a result?

The only thing you can point to is a flawed study from the administration.

Look at the way the reich-wing runs charter schools: The teachers make very little compared to public school teachers, yet the "Managers" and CEO's are WAYYY overpaid. The result: Charters cost taxpayers a lot more than public schools per student.

The same will be true for their vision of a "merit pay" government. People who actually do the jobs that help run the state will get their pay cut but "managers" and political hacks will be handsomely rewarded. The result: NO SAVINGS and likely even higher costs.

piak - you live in a parallel universe if you believe that SB won't destroy public sector unions.

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12Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

The savy taxpayers know that repealing SB 5 is all about nurturing the public sector employees while impoverishing him and her with higher taxes . . . ..

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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13AnotherAverageCitizen(1175 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Close to a MILLION.......

SB5 will be voted away..............

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14ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

1 million divided by 360K = 2.77778 ???

How hard is it for most to get their spouse and 3/4 of one of their parents/relatives to sign the petition.
Apparently not hard, but if you think about it I would have my spouse both parents of both of us and a few brothers and sisters and their spouses, x 360K how much would that equal? Oh about 7.5 million + or - few.

So I guess it wasn't such a great feat after all if you put it all in context.

Nice way to over sensationalize it anyway.

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15NoBS(1963 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Jessiedavid (963 comments) posted 1 day ago

NoBS,

Your message to me is factual.

However, EVERYTHING is out of control when it comes to our Government spending, and that includes the money being spent for public employees unions. Their benefits and pensions are extreme, and therefore, are truly pillaging non union tax payers.

++++
What I see isn't that the rank and file employees are overpaid, over-benefitted, and so on, but rather that, following the natural cycle of things, they haven't yet caught up to the private sector. The private sector always feels the changes first, whether they're good or bad. The public sector always lags behind - years behind. Just 5 years ago, in 2006, who would have thought the public sector would have the best pay and best benefits?

Things will self-correct regardless of what we do - all this repetition of hate and envy for those who are perceived to have more than others do only serves to create more animosity between people, at a time when everyone needs to be pulling together.
++++

The need to down size Government every which way, and reign in ALL Government spending is like a GLARING and GIANT neon light flashing all across the U.S., but a vast majority of Americans remain oblivious to that which is so extreme and obvious.

++++
The common worker - public or private - isn't to blame, yet they bear the brunt of all the "I lost something, so to make myself feel better, I want to strike out at those who haven't lost it yet, and make sure they do!" irrationality. Put the blame where it belongs - greedy, corrupt, self-serving, incompetent politicians. From the local level to the federal level.
++++

However, SB 5, has at the very least rudely made many Ohioans wake up, including me.

++++
SB 5 is nothing but an attack on unions. The public sector is the first wave, but the private sector will be next. For the past couple of decades, there has been a very real effort to transfer as much wealth as possible to the very rich. That's why the economy is still gasping for air, and why jobs are still scarce.
++++

Looking beyond SB 5, which may be irrelevant now..because our entire economy is on the verge of collapse... We MUST get prepared.. Things are NOT getting better,..they are getting worse.

++++
Things may be getting worse, but it's not the fault of rank and file public employees. Start with the lawmakers - why are they allowed to make laws that they themselves don't have to follow? How did THAT ever become accepted?

Influence is bought every day, at every level. THAT's what has to be stopped.

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16commoncitizen(961 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

It's amazing that a lot,if not all, teachers unions are hurrying to get thier contracts signed BEFORE SB5 goes into law. If all of you SB5 haters are correct shouldn't the unions be waiting ??

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17LtMacGowan(645 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Its wonderful that so many people have shown their displeasure at S.B. 5 and I do hope it is repealed by a massive margin come november but to answer what Stan said I also hope we raise taxes too. Our public infrastructure stinks, it STINKS. we have a poorly funded public transport system, our educational system is crap and most of the school buildings are falling apart yet we continue to get screwed every year because 51% of the voters vote No on tax levies

"Piss on them, I can't pay an extra hundred dollars a year or so to give our children better teachers, or to build better roads and so on. That HDTV ive been wanting is much more important!"

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18NoBS(1963 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

JD - sounds like the governor wasn't living up to his end of the bargain, so the unions backed off. Why else would 45,000 people whose jobs are on the line be "leery of the deal" according to the article you quoted?

I note that, rather than try to address where the sticking points are, the governor is instead "showing them who's boss" by issuing layoff notices. Willing to negotiate in good faith? Not so much.

Often, public employees are unwilling to take concessions or give anything back because they see the staggering amount of money wasted by their municipal administration. The politicians would rather put in a sidewalk where there is no need for one, as one example, than repair a crumbling and leaking building "for the employees."

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19Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Austerity is only for the little people, the common taxpayer working for the private sector . Repeal SB 5 and support the special ones . . ..

TAX THEM TO THE LIMIT ONE MORE TIME !

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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20AnotherAverageCitizen(1175 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Jesse, good post for Conn.

Not sure what it has to do with Ohio

""Yes, we are on the verge of a total financial collapse,""
Have you been out to boardman/ niles lately? Have you not seen all the Shopping/Dining out going on. This is no where NEAR TOTAL financial collaspe. Things have slowed down, Yes. But look at how many new car sales, thoundsands flying everyday. If it were near Financial collaspe I don't think too many folks would be VACATIONING this summer. I wonder how many thoundsands are entreing Cedar Point at $40 someting a person.

The world is not ending. The financial Banks were well taken care of.

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21peacelover(790 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

theotherside,
Well put. Bravo!

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22commoncitizen(961 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Talking aboput Christie -didn't the Democrates side with him on thier budget cuts??

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23AnotherAverageCitizen(1175 comments)posted 3 years, 4 months ago

Jay, sorry if I upset you.

But driving through Boardman looking at the cars in the restaraunt parking lots, seems to be quite a number. Maybe I am wrong, maybe there is not anybody in those restaraunts. It must be all employee vehicles with nothing to do with no patrons.
There were empty store 2 years ago, 6 years ago and 12 years ago. There will always be empty stores as new areas are replacing older stores.

Where did I connect these two?
""and then you equate a $40 ticket to Cedar Point with a $2,000+ vacation package""

What I am saying is there seems to be a lot of EXTRA spending out there for such a FININCIAL COLLASPE as jesse was saying.

If you send you cjild to college and they earn a Masters degree, how much would you hope the make in wages for that? $30,000 for a masters. I certainly hope more then that. $65,000 for a masters degree, sounds more like it.

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24NoBS(1963 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Jessiedavid (971 comments) posted 2 days, 1 hour ago

theotherside,

Whatever happens we will live with the results.

++That's the truth. You'll recall that before Kasich even took office, I said we're in for four years of nothing being done, obstructionism, and gridlock. Looks like I was right.++

When and if SB 5 is voted down, and we the over taxed, non union tax payers refuse to have any more taxes put on to the existing ones, to appease public employees', then the next steps will go forth with public employee lay offs, and the unions in turn will be rightfully "marginalized", and brought into line.

++Oh, dear!

I hope you can continue your comfortable life without police, fire, road, water, sewer, education (lower and higher), or any of those other ungrateful, millionaire so-and-sos, once they're "rightfully" kicked to the curb.

Are you really so naive as to believe your taxes are going to be reduced if union-busting garbage like SB 5 is enacted? Your services will be reduced - I'll guaran-frickin-tee that.++

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25NoBS(1963 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

SB 5 doesn't have a snowball's chance. Kasich even recognizes that - why else would he be wanting to break it up into several smaller bills, each one containing a part of SB 5? He knows it will be harder to get up referendums for all the bits and pieces, so some of it will slip through. Why, also, does he want to "negotiate" after all his heavy-handed threats have been negated and the reality of a million Ohioans standing up and telling him he's wrong sinks into his consciousness? He sees the writing on the wall.

It ain't greed, at least on the part of the unions. But under Kasich's rule, the rich WILL get richer, so I guess there's some greed some place!

And the public employees HAVE accepted less - quit worshiping the almighty teabag, and open your eyes! The next set of cuts were being drawn up when King John went into attack mode. Now, he wants to talk? Sorry, that time has passed.

Why is it that Kasich's administration is costing Ohioans even more money than Strickland's did? How is that supposed to save us money? How about Kasich and his cronies taking a 20% pay cut, and leading by example? How about him compensating the state for the installation of that whiz-bang security system we had to put in his house, because he just couldn't bring himself to accept one of the facets of the job - that of living in the governor's mansion?

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26Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Repeal SB5 and TAX THEM TO THE LIMIT ONE MORE TIME . The economy should not limit the ability of government workers to get outrageous raises .

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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27hoffa83(1 comment)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Thank you to all of you who support the SB5 repeal effort! I just got the email from we are Ohio. over 1.2million signatures collected 75% from volunteers like myself. I have noticed a common theme here I've seen very few caps (aka internet yelling) from supporters of the repeal. I think this is very annoying to the other side. All the rallies I attended were the same way, very civil people in opposition.
Those of you who are supporting SB5 I'm sure are not well educated on the history of labor in this country. There was no middle class before unions and there will be no middle class without them. I just hope we settle this legislatively because if you know what happened in the early days of the labor movement you know we don't want a repeat.

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