You are correct about the commissioners needing to stand up to the political muscle of the valley.
My take on this is "economic development" bed tax is that it a project originally pushed by Ryan's office. They went and hired Rose Ann Deleon. Little has been created by it. Ryan wants to save face by spending more money. Otherwise they may need to let her go and the whole thing will be chalked up as a failure.
I am sure that this is the pessimists' point of view. But the optimists' point of view cost's everyone alot of money they don't have right now. If we could just print the money and take from the value of other people's money, the optimists' view would work.
Todd, Although the CASTLO Community Improvement Corporation has received a few federal and state grants over its 34 year history, it has never received one thin dime of local taxpayer monies. Nearly 100% of the organization’s income is received from leasing building space at the CASTLO Industrial Park. Also, as a 501 (c ) 4 organization, CASTLO pays local property taxes and in fact has paid approximately $30,000 annually (nearly $1,000,000 since 1978) to the Mahoning County Treasurer to support various government entities including the Struthers City School District. Further, throughout its history an average of at least 100 people per year have been employed at the CASTLO Industrial Park contributing 2% of their wages to the city of Struthers in the form of municipal income taxes. Assuming 100 employees earning $40,000 on average per year this calculates to about $80,000 annually. Please note this correction. Thanks.
Mr. Franko - Your editorial viewpoint on the bed tax agreed with my own, so natch', I thought that's was great. You briefly touched on the role of convention bureaus and event organizers in jacking up room prices. Mom and Pop travelers seldom know about this, and respond only to the final room price. Either way, in this area, hiking that price to support a public entity of little value is still a dumb idea.
I read your piece with interest. However, you seem to overlook the reason why your choice is limited when you go on these trips. The hotel in exchange for the business is offering a group discount. Therefore, the bed tax is being collected, but since the room is discounted, the bed taxes are being paid by the hotels themselves. The higher the bed tax the harder it is for a hotel to stay profitable.
Case in point, the Holiday Metro Plex in Trumbull, which recently reopened and reported by your paper as having its water turned off, closed shortly after Trumbull County raised their bed tax to one of the highest in the state.
I do appreciate you bringing attention to the issue. Being a member of a family, who owns and manages a motel in the area for over 50 years, it just strikes me wrong to take advantage of travelers. If the political structure of an area favors exploiting visitors, they would tend to look the other way or in fact favor the exploitation of other groups. I would like to think of Youngstown as a place that welcomes visitors. After all, it is our home town.
FROM A CITIZEN: Todd, Your article on the proposed bed tax was interesting, but there are two points that everyone seems to be leaving out:
1. Logic - If people in the Mahoning Valley want money spent on economic development, why shouldn't they spend their own money to fund this? Why should visitors from Buffalo, Altoona and Omaha be taxed when they will receive absolutely none of the benefits? This makes as much sense as an increased sales tax on shoppers from Trumbull, Columbiana, Mercer and Lawrence counties that goes strictly to subsidize bus service for Mahoning county residents. (Oh, I'm sorry - you were in favor of that one).
2. History - Back in 1776, the people of this country fought a war against Great Britain, the the main rallying cry being "No taxation without representation". So what is now being proposed here? Do the visitors from Buffalo get to vote for Mahoning county commissioners? Of course not. Do the visitors from Altoona get to vote on whether there should be a bed tax? Of course not. Do the visitors from Omaha get to vote on how any bed tax is spent? Of course not.
I appreciate your editorial “Sleeping on the Bed Tax”. I wanted to provide some more information for you about how a high bed tax rate hurts hotel business. The contract business from companies are the most sensitive to high tax rates, then the conventions, and then leisure travelers like parents with youth sports groups.
Companies that contract for multiple room nights over the course of a year will take their business to a nearby hotel in another city or county for a lower tax rate (This is the primary group in the Toledo example below) and conventions will choose or even boycott cities with unreasonable tax rates (please see the NY City example below).
Many leisure travelers may not look at the tax rate when they book a hotel room, but many of them notice it when they check out and a high rate reduces the chance of them coming back. Please let me know if you would like me to send you more information on this issue.
Toledo In 2007 Lucas County, Ohio increased lodging taxes by 2 percentage points taking Toledo’s total hotel tax at checkout to 16.75% (one of the highest in the nation). According to data provided by Smith Travel Research, since the Lucas County hotel tax increase 731 hotel rooms have closed in Lucas County and 445 hotel rooms have opened in Perrysburg (Wood County) only minutes from downtown Toledo where the total hotel tax at checkout is only 9.5%.
New York City In 1991 New York City increased its total hotel tax at checkout to 21.25%. Outraged meeting planners boycotted New York City and businesses looked elsewhere for rooms. Over the next several years New York City had to reduce its lodging tax in order to get business to return. According to a white paper produced by the Hotel Association of New York City, in 2007 with a reduced tax rate of 14.54% New York is bringing in over double the amount of hotel tax dollars ($986 million in hotel tax receipts) as they did when the rates were at their highest in 1991.
Sincerely, Matthew L. MacLaren, Esq. Executive Director Ohio Hotel & Lodging Association
Simply crazy. Read the 12-month history of our/my coverage. I have said over and over that the salaries are low in many areas of the county. I even think $50/$60K for lawyers is low. And I wouldn't do a CSB worker's job for the money they get. And the entire county workforce is letting the deputies work for peanuts. My point all year is not that you have to work for peanuts. It's that peanuts is what's coming in in the form of tax dollars. It's not the 90s anymore. Yet some officeholders choose to pay out like there's prime rib coming in and Clinton's in office -- all the while enjoying benefits that on average, exceed the current private market place. Public workers in the 80s bemoaned that they needed to be treated like private workers, and the performance would be better, etc. So starting in the late 80s and through the 90s, that happened. Now? It's no longer OK to be treated like the private sector. That's been the point for 12 months of our writing that's tried to zero in on the last 4 years of local government spending. And we will continue it. Where there's a levy asking the private sector for additional funds, there will be pay and benefits histories.
Thank you Joly for the 25 minutes to find the gist.
I'll admit though that within my family is a relative who sent out 100 or so "You're invited" cards not too long ago .... and they got the time and the place and the honorees absolutely perfect.
But never did the invite say what you were coming for.
Thankfully, the celebratory typeface at least conveyed it was not a funeral.
Monday email from reader working with county, but not for county: Thank you sir for the great writing. It is time the public found out about some of those dirty, little secrets! I don't work for the county. I have been (at facility) 15 years and have become friends with many a deputy. What they have given up over the years is shameful. I will never understand why those who put their life on the line are not compensated for it. Would any of our judges or other departments want to sit in a huge room with 36 alleged murderers, rapists, child molesters milling around them for peanuts? I think not. Well, there is so much more, but we all need our jobs. Again I thank you for a fantastic article.
Pac: You are right about the low wages, and I've said that several times over this year-long look at county raises. And I did so in this piece. This is not a look at wages; it's a look at new spending in an era when new revenues are tough to find for anyone -- public or private. If you work for Apple or a Marcellus Shale outfit, you likely have new revenues to spread around your staff. Do it, and love it, and buy a new Cruze with it. But new revenues for anyone else -- especially government -- are hard to find. That's certainly true for the Valley. That's certainly true these last 3 years. The raises in this piece are hardly as lucrative as what Gains did in January. But in fairness to all, and especially the deputies, it ALL deserves examination. The health department especially fits this, and I swallowed hard a bit in calling these guys this week because I kind of see it like you. Yes, it was only 2 percent in June. But it was 1.5 percent 6 months ago. And it was 2.75 6 months before that. And 3.00 12 months before that. Pile on that philosophy across one department's entire workforce, then across many departments, and what you have is "We need a new tax levy because we can't afford to operate." I don't agree with paulparks' "lazy" charge, and I hate that doing these stories subjects people -- some of them friends of mine and Vindy customers -- to unfair charges like that. But I hope we can overcome the low points of this debate and see the bigger issues.
Sleeping on the bed tax
FROM READER:
Happy Easter!
You are correct about the commissioners needing to stand up to the political muscle of the valley.
My take on this is "economic development" bed tax is that it a project originally pushed by Ryan's office. They went and hired Rose Ann Deleon. Little has been created by it. Ryan wants to save face by spending more money. Otherwise they may need to let her go and the whole thing will be chalked up as a failure.
I am sure that this is the pessimists' point of view. But the optimists' point of view cost's everyone alot of money they don't have right now. If we could just print the money and take from the value of other people's money, the optimists' view would work.
April 9, 2012 at 10:16 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Sleeping on the bed tax
FROM A CASTLO person:
Todd,
Although the CASTLO Community Improvement Corporation has received a few federal and state grants over its 34 year history, it has never received one thin dime of local taxpayer monies. Nearly 100% of the organization’s income is received from leasing building space at the CASTLO Industrial Park. Also, as a 501 (c ) 4 organization, CASTLO pays local property taxes and in fact has paid approximately $30,000 annually (nearly $1,000,000 since 1978) to the Mahoning County Treasurer to support various government entities including the Struthers City School District. Further, throughout its history an average of at least 100 people per year have been employed at the CASTLO Industrial Park contributing 2% of their wages to the city of Struthers in the form of municipal income taxes. Assuming 100 employees earning $40,000 on average per year this calculates to about $80,000 annually. Please note this correction. Thanks.
April 9, 2012 at 10:15 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Sleeping on the bed tax
A READER:
Mr. Franko -
Your editorial viewpoint on the bed tax agreed with my own, so natch', I thought that's was great. You briefly touched on the role of convention bureaus and event organizers in jacking up room prices. Mom and Pop travelers seldom know about this, and respond only to the final room price. Either way, in this area, hiking that price to support a public entity of little value is still a dumb idea.
April 9, 2012 at 10:13 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Sleeping on the bed tax
FROM A CITIZEN:
Dear Mr. Franko:
I read your piece with interest. However, you seem to overlook the reason why your choice is limited when you go on these trips. The hotel in exchange for the business is offering a group discount. Therefore, the bed tax is being collected, but since the room is discounted, the bed taxes are being paid by the hotels themselves. The higher the bed tax the harder it is for a hotel to stay profitable.
Case in point, the Holiday Metro Plex in Trumbull, which recently reopened and reported by your paper as having its water turned off, closed shortly after Trumbull County raised their bed tax to one of the highest in the state.
I do appreciate you bringing attention to the issue. Being a member of a family, who owns and manages a motel in the area for over 50 years, it just strikes me wrong to take advantage of travelers. If the political structure of an area favors exploiting visitors, they would tend to look the other way or in fact favor the exploitation of other groups. I would like to think of Youngstown as a place that welcomes visitors. After all, it is our home town.
April 9, 2012 at 10:08 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Sleeping on the bed tax
FROM A CITIZEN:
Todd,
Your article on the proposed bed tax was interesting, but there are two points that everyone seems to be leaving out:
1. Logic - If people in the Mahoning Valley want money spent on economic development, why shouldn't they spend their own money to fund this? Why should visitors from Buffalo, Altoona and Omaha be taxed when they will receive absolutely none of the benefits? This makes as much sense as an increased sales tax on shoppers from Trumbull, Columbiana, Mercer and Lawrence counties that goes strictly to subsidize bus service for Mahoning county residents. (Oh, I'm sorry - you were in favor of that one).
2. History - Back in 1776, the people of this country fought a war against Great Britain, the the main rallying cry being "No taxation without representation". So what is now being proposed here?
Do the visitors from Buffalo get to vote for Mahoning county commissioners? Of course not.
Do the visitors from Altoona get to vote on whether there should be a bed tax? Of course not.
Do the visitors from Omaha get to vote on how any bed tax is spent? Of course not.
Maybe it is time for another revolution.
April 9, 2012 at 10:05 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Sleeping on the bed tax
FROM THE HOTEL ASSOC:
Todd,
I appreciate your editorial “Sleeping on the Bed Tax”. I wanted to provide some more information for you about how a high bed tax rate hurts hotel business. The contract business from companies are the most sensitive to high tax rates, then the conventions, and then leisure travelers like parents with youth sports groups.
Companies that contract for multiple room nights over the course of a year will take their business to a nearby hotel in another city or county for a lower tax rate (This is the primary group in the Toledo example below) and conventions will choose or even boycott cities with unreasonable tax rates (please see the NY City example below).
Many leisure travelers may not look at the tax rate when they book a hotel room, but many of them notice it when they check out and a high rate reduces the chance of them coming back. Please let me know if you would like me to send you more information on this issue.
Toledo
In 2007 Lucas County, Ohio increased lodging taxes by 2 percentage points taking Toledo’s total hotel tax at checkout to 16.75% (one of the highest in the nation). According to data provided by Smith Travel Research, since the Lucas County hotel tax increase 731 hotel rooms have closed in Lucas County and 445 hotel rooms have opened in Perrysburg (Wood County) only minutes from downtown Toledo where the total hotel tax at checkout is only 9.5%.
New York City
In 1991 New York City increased its total hotel tax at checkout to 21.25%. Outraged meeting planners boycotted New York City and businesses looked elsewhere for rooms. Over the next several years New York City had to reduce its lodging tax in order to get business to return. According to a white paper produced by the Hotel Association of New York City, in 2007 with a reduced tax rate of 14.54% New York is bringing in over double the amount of hotel tax dollars ($986 million in hotel tax receipts) as they did when the rates were at their highest in 1991.
Sincerely,
Matthew L. MacLaren, Esq.
Executive Director
Ohio Hotel & Lodging Association
April 9, 2012 at 10:04 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Marsico bows out; timing is perfect
RobX:
Simply crazy. Read the 12-month history of our/my coverage.
I have said over and over that the salaries are low in many areas of the county. I even think $50/$60K for lawyers is low. And I wouldn't do a CSB worker's job for the money they get. And the entire county workforce is letting the deputies work for peanuts.
My point all year is not that you have to work for peanuts. It's that peanuts is what's coming in in the form of tax dollars. It's not the 90s anymore. Yet some officeholders choose to pay out like there's prime rib coming in and Clinton's in office -- all the while enjoying benefits that on average, exceed the current private market place.
Public workers in the 80s bemoaned that they needed to be treated like private workers, and the performance would be better, etc.
So starting in the late 80s and through the 90s, that happened.
Now? It's no longer OK to be treated like the private sector.
That's been the point for 12 months of our writing that's tried to zero in on the last 4 years of local government spending.
And we will continue it. Where there's a levy asking the private sector for additional funds, there will be pay and benefits histories.
January 17, 2012 at 1:52 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Youngstown's trying to be helpful, but ...
Thank you Joly for the 25 minutes to find the gist.
I'll admit though that within my family is a relative who sent out 100 or so "You're invited" cards not too long ago .... and they got the time and the place and the honorees absolutely perfect.
But never did the invite say what you were coming for.
Thankfully, the celebratory typeface at least conveyed it was not a funeral.
November 23, 2011 at 11:52 a.m. permalink suggest removal
County summer raises hit $225K
Monday email from reader working with county, but not for county:
Thank you sir for the great writing. It is time the public found out about some of those dirty, little secrets! I don't work for the county. I have been (at facility) 15 years and have become friends with many a deputy. What they have given up over the years is shameful. I will never understand why those who put their life on the line are not compensated for it. Would any of our judges or other departments want to sit in a huge room with 36 alleged murderers, rapists, child molesters milling around them for peanuts? I think not. Well, there is so much more, but we all need our jobs. Again I thank you for a fantastic article.
October 10, 2011 at 9:51 a.m. permalink suggest removal
County summer raises hit $225K
Pac:
You are right about the low wages, and I've said that several times over this year-long look at county raises. And I did so in this piece.
This is not a look at wages; it's a look at new spending in an era when new revenues are tough to find for anyone -- public or private.
If you work for Apple or a Marcellus Shale outfit, you likely have new revenues to spread around your staff. Do it, and love it, and buy a new Cruze with it.
But new revenues for anyone else -- especially government -- are hard to find. That's certainly true for the Valley. That's certainly true these last 3 years.
The raises in this piece are hardly as lucrative as what Gains did in January. But in fairness to all, and especially the deputies, it ALL deserves examination.
The health department especially fits this, and I swallowed hard a bit in calling these guys this week because I kind of see it like you. Yes, it was only 2 percent in June. But it was 1.5 percent 6 months ago. And it was 2.75 6 months before that. And 3.00 12 months before that.
Pile on that philosophy across one department's entire workforce, then across many departments, and what you have is "We need a new tax levy because we can't afford to operate."
I don't agree with paulparks' "lazy" charge, and I hate that doing these stories subjects people -- some of them friends of mine and Vindy customers -- to unfair charges like that.
But I hope we can overcome the low points of this debate and see the bigger issues.
October 9, 2011 at 10:29 a.m. permalink suggest removal