TO: thinkinoutloud, shiningstar, truthrus, letlightshine, sue, iknowzion and fine family...WOW...aren't we all perfect! What I don't understand is that if everyone was so UNHAPPY and felt that Dale was a control freak, why did you stick around so long? There are many other churches in town. Zion was, and will remain, a good strong church. All former and current pastors and council and committee members should be commended for their hard work to create a wonderful place to worship. It embarasses me that members of Zion will berate "our" church and harbor such negativity when this is a time when we need to put our best foot forward and come together to keep our congregation strong. I am ashamed that people of our own congregation feel the need to publicly put down the church council and insist that they were mere puppets. And no, I am not a member of church council.
Wow, by some of the comments here, I'm wondering if I was going to the same church. NEVER ONCE did I feel that Pastor Dale felt he was above God as dk313 stated. I joined Zion with my husband's family and ALWAYS felt welcome by all of the pastors, interns, church council members, staff....everyone. I really cannot believe that so many people were "uncomfortable". As for comments by mustbcrzy, I think you are. Your comment that "Zion was run by Dale" is right! Why do you think he was there....it was his JOB to "run" Zion....he was called to serve there. He did receive a paycheck for the "running" of the place. I guess if you didn't agree with decisions made is it just easier to act like he was a control freak. Why do you think the congregation has a church council....to oversee the work of the pastors. Your other comment "Council knew something evil was going on and chose to ignore it" is just plain ignorant and questions the integrity of good people.
AMEN! Finally, someone who has the sense to speak out for the good people who do serve on the church council. Some comments made have definately questioned council members integrity. I agree with REMK...SHAME ON YOU for doing that! To be clear, I am not on church council either, but I do admire those individuals who give of their time to serve.
ygirl - I never said I knew why the pastors left, nor am I privy to more information than any other member. I simply asked if you knew the reason they left or if it was someone else's opinion you may have heard. As for your question as to why you were never asked to be on church council, if you felt strongly enough about wanting to serve, you probably could have nominated YOURSELF or had a friend or family member nominate you. The church membership votes, not just council.
As for questions not being answered about an employee's hurried departure, where I am employed, those questions would not be answered either. We are not privy to that information at my place of employment. Maybe that is why questions were not answered by church council...privacy issues? I do not know that for a fact, it is just my opinion based on how personnel issues are handled at my place of employment.
Wrong. I just know how the church council membership is voted on. I have never, nor would I accept a nomination to serve on council if asked, only because I feel others would do a better job than myself...if that is the behavior you are referring to (as in being in Dale's pocket). I do listen and attend annual meetings, and do not make harsh judgements, unlike yourself.
I have been reading these comments all afternoon/evening, and I, too, am a member of Zion. Clearly, there are so many inaccuracies on issues mentioned. It is hard to believe that some people who have commented here are not current members of Zion, yet feel they "know" so much about what goes on there. Also, some seem to be so knowledgeable about Church Council and that for Zion to be able to go on, all Council members should resign. I, myself, applaud these unselfish individuals for their commitment to serve Zion. In this very troubled time, they are there to help our congregation move forward. I never once thought that Dale is still running the show through council. If you really want to know what thoughts have crossed my mind, I will tell you that the so-called coincidences and timelines of people coming forward and why these accusations have just surfaced after all of these years is foremost in my thoughts? What prompted someone to go directly to the Bishop?
I do agree with REMK....someone must be in Chuck's back pocket. And to YGIRL, you say that everyone on council is in Dale's pocket. WAKE UP!The church membership VOTES council members in. The church membership has the right to NOMINATE from the floor as long as the person being nominated has been asked if they would accept the nomination. Have you attended a meeting of the congregation? Just because someone is nominated to be on council does not automatically give them the position. The congregation (or those who choose to show up at the meeting) vote. All confirmed members of the church can vote. You act as if Dale had the final word on COUNCIL membership...he did not. It is your peers (if you are a voting member) who elect council members.
If you were at the last annual meeting of the congregation you would know WHY investments are with Dale's brothers company, HOW it benefits our church, WHY investments are kept there, and the RETURN Zion receives. Assumptions and accusations without knowledge breed stupidity.
I have one other question for YGIRL...do you know why Pastors Mark and Chuck left so abruptly. Or do you have someone's opinion of why they left?
Ex-pastor pleads innocent to rapes
TO: thinkinoutloud, shiningstar, truthrus, letlightshine, sue, iknowzion and fine family...WOW...aren't we all perfect! What I don't understand is that if everyone was so UNHAPPY and felt that Dale was a control freak, why did you stick around so long? There are many other churches in town. Zion was, and will remain, a good strong church. All former and current pastors and council and committee members should be commended for their hard work to create a wonderful place to worship. It embarasses me that members of Zion will berate "our" church and harbor such negativity when this is a time when we need to put our best foot forward and come together to keep our congregation strong. I am ashamed that people of our own congregation feel the need to publicly put down the church council and insist that they were mere puppets. And no, I am not a member of church council.
I agree with Jeff.....Eric is right!
March 9, 2009 at 10:05 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
Wow, by some of the comments here, I'm wondering if I was going to the same church. NEVER ONCE did I feel that Pastor Dale felt he was above God as dk313 stated. I joined Zion with my husband's family and ALWAYS felt welcome by all of the pastors, interns, church council members, staff....everyone. I really cannot believe that so many people were "uncomfortable". As for comments by mustbcrzy, I think you are. Your comment that "Zion was run by Dale" is right! Why do you think he was there....it was his JOB to "run" Zion....he was called to serve there. He did receive a paycheck for the "running" of the place. I guess if you didn't agree with decisions made is it just easier to act like he was a control freak. Why do you think the congregation has a church council....to oversee the work of the pastors. Your other comment "Council knew something evil was going on and chose to ignore it" is just plain ignorant and questions the integrity of good people.
February 25, 2009 at 10:28 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
AMEN! Finally, someone who has the sense to speak out for the good people who do serve on the church council. Some comments made have definately questioned council members integrity. I agree with REMK...SHAME ON YOU for doing that! To be clear, I am not on church council either, but I do admire those individuals who give of their time to serve.
February 22, 2009 at 8:08 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
ygirl - I never said I knew why the pastors left, nor am I privy to more information than any other member. I simply asked if you knew the reason they left or if it was someone else's opinion you may have heard. As for your question as to why you were never asked to be on church council, if you felt strongly enough about wanting to serve, you probably could have nominated YOURSELF or had a friend or family member nominate you. The church membership votes, not just council.
As for questions not being answered about an employee's hurried departure, where I am employed, those questions would not be answered either. We are not privy to that information at my place of employment. Maybe that is why questions were not answered by church council...privacy issues? I do not know that for a fact, it is just my opinion based on how personnel issues are handled at my place of employment.
February 22, 2009 at 12:50 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
Thank you for clearing that up!
February 20, 2009 at 11:50 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
Dear username,
I NEVER stated that I knew EVERYTHING that goes on there or has gone on there. Where did you get that idea?
February 20, 2009 at 11:43 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
Wrong. I just know how the church council membership is voted on. I have never, nor would I accept a nomination to serve on council if asked, only because I feel others would do a better job than myself...if that is the behavior you are referring to (as in being in Dale's pocket). I do listen and attend annual meetings, and do not make harsh judgements, unlike yourself.
February 20, 2009 at 11:39 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
I have been reading these comments all afternoon/evening, and I, too, am a member of Zion. Clearly, there are so many inaccuracies on issues mentioned. It is hard to believe that some people who have commented here are not current members of Zion, yet feel they "know" so much about what goes on there. Also, some seem to be so knowledgeable about Church Council and that for Zion to be able to go on, all Council members should resign. I, myself, applaud these unselfish individuals for their commitment to serve Zion. In this very troubled time, they are there to help our congregation move forward. I never once thought that Dale is still running the show through council. If you really want to know what thoughts have crossed my mind, I will tell you that the so-called coincidences and timelines of people coming forward and why these accusations have just surfaced after all of these years is foremost in my thoughts? What prompted someone to go directly to the Bishop?
I do agree with REMK....someone must be in Chuck's back pocket. And to YGIRL, you say that everyone on council is in Dale's pocket. WAKE UP!The church membership VOTES council members in. The church membership has the right to NOMINATE from the floor as long as the person being nominated has been asked if they would accept the nomination. Have you attended a meeting of the congregation? Just because someone is nominated to be on council does not automatically give them the position. The congregation (or those who choose to show up at the meeting) vote. All confirmed members of the church can vote. You act as if Dale had the final word on COUNCIL membership...he did not. It is your peers (if you are a voting member) who elect council members.
If you were at the last annual meeting of the congregation you would know WHY investments are with Dale's brothers company, HOW it benefits our church, WHY investments are kept there, and the RETURN Zion receives. Assumptions and accusations without knowledge breed stupidity.
I have one other question for YGIRL...do you know why Pastors Mark and Chuck left so abruptly. Or do you have someone's opinion of why they left?
February 20, 2009 at 11:13 p.m. permalink suggest removal