it's impossible to reason with people who know as much as you do, baboo. you got your degree and as a result have that air of superiority about you that i find so cloying. do be too uppity, though, you're not the only one who worked full time while going to college.
i won't continue this discussion except to say that most of the men and women i worked with worked hard all day long, never drank, slept or abused the system. some people are proud of the job they do even if they weren't "a hard working professional" like you.
several have died of lung cancer although they never smoked, most have bad backs, carpal tunnel syndrome, cervical spine issues, hearing loss and a host of other maladies that result from factory work. many had degrees (ahem) but stayed at gm because they got paid more than they could get with their education.
some smoked pot or got drunk on the job but the union had to protect them as well as the decent workers. many of those abusers were rehabilitated by the in-plant programs designed to help them. had they been fired, they might have gone on the public dole and became everyone's problem.
you make generalizations based on what you imagine to be true. we all had the responsibility of keeping the plant clean. you're comment about picking up a piece of paper is simply inane.
so i have a question for you. you made four posts regarding this article, yesterday afternoon at 1:44 and 4:47 and today at 10:45 a.m. and 4:42 p.m.. just what hours do you work?
so baboo, you don't think some doctors get high before surgery? pilots never fly drunk? bus drivers? truck drivers? office workers? teachers? professional atheletes? movie stars? all these people never drink or get smoked up on the job. only autoworkers. interesting.
see, i can recall four or five guys who were summarily fired from the lordstown fab plant for beng under the influence while at work. who are you talking about?
and you want to know what's the purpose of a union now? ask someone who works at the deli at wal-mart what he or she makes an hour. then ask the person who does the same job at giant eagle what they make.
baboo, the electrician is right, rates were done away with years ago. the system is designed for every worker to be busy 54 seconds out of every minute. but you don't have to worry about that anymore, do you? most of those people are losing their jobs.
your argument that gm makes junk is bogus. you use it as an excuse to buy un-american and try to explain to your parents why a honda is parked in their driveway.
and the electrician is right again about the $70 an hour scrooge keeps harping on. that was arrived at by someone who took the hourly pay of all production workers, plus the cost of their benefits, plus all the retirees' pensions and the cost of their benefits, added it all up and divided by the number of employees currently working. it's wrong.
when i made $27 an hour, my benefits package was $23. they sent me annual reports with the amounts spelled out. and today, the pay and benefits have been drastically reduced.
notice i'm not someone who knows someone who works there. i'm not someone who walked through once or twice and think i know everything. i worked there for over thirty years.
also, it's an L in my name, scrooge, not an I--Ldchian. so you used up all your cleverness for nothing.
baboo: could these people have been on break or idled out? or are you assuming they were just goofing off?
it's true, some jobs were rated and a worker could finish in less than eight hours. then they got to sit and play cards. but the rates were set by industrial engineers who worked for the company. if a person became adept enough at doing his job, he could get done early.
then the job could be manned by another person or crew and the company got more than a day's production in a shift. rates benefitted the company, too, otherwise they would not have agreed to them.
so you were "fortunate enough to be raised with the help of organized labor" but will never buy american again? seems to me instead of calling yourself baboo, you should be called baboon.
scrooge: Idchian you are exactly what your nick sounds like.<<<< what the hell does this even mean?
so you're saying it's harder being a baseball player than an autoworker? and they play 162 games in a row? hmmm, the season lasts at least six months, so . . . .
and how long does a game usually last? because most people work at least eight hours a day and five days a week, so . . . .
so you really just don't have a clue, do you?
in the first place, i know autoworkers who have worked years on end without a day off. they were so greedy, work was the most important thing in their lives.
secondly, ask anyone if playing baseball for a living is preferable to a factory job or any other job, for that matter. see what they say.
and when did ball players start making millions? when they unionized.
the point is that there are people who get paid to sit in waiting and be ready to work when called upon. that's what the jobs bank was originally designed for. if it was abused or mismanaged, that's another story. i won't comment something i don't know about.
on a baseball team they have nine players on the field and a dugout full of players ready and capable of going into the game. they get paid wether they play or not. it's a jobs bank. who complains about that?
so many people write on this blog as if everything is black or white. cut their pay. eliminate benefits, get rid of the UAW and all will be well. what satisfaction is there when they pull the carpet out from under these people? does someone else's loss improve your lot in life?
and ysugrad, how do you know how fat anyone has become? i imagine you at work, sitting at your computer, playing solitaire, eating ho-hos and reliving your glory days at ysu.
why am i not surprised to read doom and gloom comments from oldmangrump? has he ever written anything else?
so the UAW needs to make $10 an hour? and gm leaks it's inside information to the vendor of a two-bit operation whose owner proudly drives an acura, pays minimum wage and probably threatens his workers with their job at every turn. can you imagine working for this guy?
you used to be amusing, grump. but i'm growing tired of your consistent bad feelings for this area and the people in it. you're smug, arrogant and negative. your name says it all. you're nothing but an old man and a grump.
several months ago when we were talking about helping out the auto industry many of the people who post on this site said they hoped gm would fail somehow to punish the autoworkers. one guy even said the area wouldn't suffer if it did. (fortunately, i haven't seen any of his posts lately.) but here we are and is anyone really happy about it?
and to everyone who's out of work, i can only say i've been in that situation and somehow things work out. but it's really hard. good luck.
Posted on February 13 at 4:21 p.m.
those installers don't get paid much, but the tips are big.
Posted on February 4 at 5:01 p.m.
it's impossible to reason with people who know as much as you do, baboo. you got your degree and as a result have that air of superiority about you that i find so cloying. do be too uppity, though, you're not the only one who worked full time while going to college.
i won't continue this discussion except to say that most of the men and women i worked with worked hard all day long, never drank, slept or abused the system. some people are proud of the job they do even if they weren't "a hard working professional" like you.
several have died of lung cancer although they never smoked, most have bad backs, carpal tunnel syndrome, cervical spine issues, hearing loss and a host of other maladies that result from factory work. many had degrees (ahem) but stayed at gm because they got paid more than they could get with their education.
some smoked pot or got drunk on the job but the union had to protect them as well as the decent workers. many of those abusers were rehabilitated by the in-plant programs designed to help them. had they been fired, they might have gone on the public dole and became everyone's problem.
you make generalizations based on what you imagine to be true. we all had the responsibility of keeping the plant clean. you're comment about picking up a piece of paper is simply inane.
so i have a question for you. you made four posts regarding this article, yesterday afternoon at 1:44 and 4:47 and today at 10:45 a.m. and 4:42 p.m.. just what hours do you work?
Posted on February 4 at 11:16 a.m.
so baboo, you don't think some doctors get high before surgery? pilots never fly drunk? bus drivers? truck drivers? office workers? teachers? professional atheletes? movie stars? all these people never drink or get smoked up on the job. only autoworkers. interesting.
see, i can recall four or five guys who were summarily fired from the lordstown fab plant for beng under the influence while at work. who are you talking about?
and you want to know what's the purpose of a union now? ask someone who works at the deli at wal-mart what he or she makes an hour. then ask the person who does the same job at giant eagle what they make.
Posted on February 4 at 11:02 a.m.
baboo, the electrician is right, rates were done away with years ago. the system is designed for every worker to be busy 54 seconds out of every minute. but you don't have to worry about that anymore, do you? most of those people are losing their jobs.
your argument that gm makes junk is bogus. you use it as an excuse to buy un-american and try to explain to your parents why a honda is parked in their driveway.
and the electrician is right again about the $70 an hour scrooge keeps harping on. that was arrived at by someone who took the hourly pay of all production workers, plus the cost of their benefits, plus all the retirees' pensions and the cost of their benefits, added it all up and divided by the number of employees currently working. it's wrong.
when i made $27 an hour, my benefits package was $23. they sent me annual reports with the amounts spelled out. and today, the pay and benefits have been drastically reduced.
notice i'm not someone who knows someone who works there. i'm not someone who walked through once or twice and think i know everything. i worked there for over thirty years.
also, it's an L in my name, scrooge, not an I--Ldchian. so you used up all your cleverness for nothing.
Posted on February 3 at 2:04 p.m.
baboo: could these people have been on break or idled out? or are you assuming they were just goofing off?
it's true, some jobs were rated and a worker could finish in less than eight hours. then they got to sit and play cards. but the rates were set by industrial engineers who worked for the company. if a person became adept enough at doing his job, he could get done early.
then the job could be manned by another person or crew and the company got more than a day's production in a shift. rates benefitted the company, too, otherwise they would not have agreed to them.
so you were "fortunate enough to be raised with the help of organized labor" but will never buy american again? seems to me instead of calling yourself baboo, you should be called baboon.
Posted on February 2 at 6:11 p.m.
scrooge: Idchian you are exactly what your nick sounds like.<<<< what the hell does this even mean?
so you're saying it's harder being a baseball player than an autoworker? and they play 162 games in a row? hmmm, the season lasts at least six months, so . . . .
and how long does a game usually last? because most people work at least eight hours a day and five days a week, so . . . .
so you really just don't have a clue, do you?
in the first place, i know autoworkers who have worked years on end without a day off. they were so greedy, work was the most important thing in their lives.
secondly, ask anyone if playing baseball for a living is preferable to a factory job or any other job, for that matter. see what they say.
and when did ball players start making millions? when they unionized.
the point is that there are people who get paid to sit in waiting and be ready to work when called upon. that's what the jobs bank was originally designed for. if it was abused or mismanaged, that's another story. i won't comment something i don't know about.
now if only you would follow my example.
Posted on February 2 at 10 a.m.
on a baseball team they have nine players on the field and a dugout full of players ready and capable of going into the game. they get paid wether they play or not. it's a jobs bank. who complains about that?
so many people write on this blog as if everything is black or white. cut their pay. eliminate benefits, get rid of the UAW and all will be well. what satisfaction is there when they pull the carpet out from under these people? does someone else's loss improve your lot in life?
and ysugrad, how do you know how fat anyone has become? i imagine you at work, sitting at your computer, playing solitaire, eating ho-hos and reliving your glory days at ysu.
Posted on January 28 at 12:17 p.m.
why am i not surprised to read doom and gloom comments from oldmangrump? has he ever written anything else?
so the UAW needs to make $10 an hour? and gm leaks it's inside information to the vendor of a two-bit operation whose owner proudly drives an acura, pays minimum wage and probably threatens his workers with their job at every turn. can you imagine working for this guy?
you used to be amusing, grump. but i'm growing tired of your consistent bad feelings for this area and the people in it. you're smug, arrogant and negative. your name says it all. you're nothing but an old man and a grump.
Posted on January 28 at 11:55 a.m.
several months ago when we were talking about helping out the auto industry many of the people who post on this site said they hoped gm would fail somehow to punish the autoworkers. one guy even said the area wouldn't suffer if it did. (fortunately, i haven't seen any of his posts lately.) but here we are and is anyone really happy about it?
and to everyone who's out of work, i can only say i've been in that situation and somehow things work out. but it's really hard. good luck.
Posted on January 13 at 8:59 a.m.
grump, we'd all be happier.