FYI... There was not a settlement payment. In fact, we had to take them to court to get them to pay for medicines that insurance wouldn't cover that he needed as a direct result of the accident.
All I can say is I feel very sorry for you... Sorry that life has been so horrible to you that you are a mean and cynical person. Sorry that you feel the need to be rude to others. Sorry that you distrust everyone and have no sense of loyalty. Sorry that you have no care for others. Just because I have a sad story, doesn't mean I don't have room in my heart to care about your sad story. It's sad to think that you are so wrapped up in your self-righteous, looking out for number 1 attitude, that you don't have the time, room, or compassion it takes to care about others. FYI... Neither I, nor my mother are asking the taxpayers to pay for her expenses. GM/Delphi asked for that. We have written letters to the bankruptcy judge objecting to letting Delphi off the hook. We ARE fighting this out in court. However, having our voices heard (which is not the same as whining), gives us a better shot at getting what those workers earned - their pensions and benefits. My parents were not fools for suing. They have something called principles. They believed that it was an accident, not a malicious act, and that all of their medical expenses would be covered. That is what they were told. I will not tolerate you, or anyone else, judging them for doing the actual right thing. You talk about an entitlement society... this is a perfect example of NOT living that life. My parents modeled for me an example life full of honesty, hard work, and not taking what doesn't belong to you. They also taught me that if I made a promise to someone, I kept it. They taught me to care about others - a lesson you seemed to have missed. As for the employees driving them to bankruptcy - I have to pass that off the union workers, who by the way are still receiving their benefits and pensions. And as for "the benefit of working for the highest paying employer..." He earned that benefit by going to college and working hard. This was not handed to him on a platter, he worked for it, much like you work for your paycheck - which sounds like it's very nice. Do I begrudge you that because you have an accounting degree and I don't? No, that was my choice to study a different field. I have no idea what your parents did for a living, but if your dad had an engineering degree, perhaps he would have been privilege to the same opportunity. My parents lived a very modest life. And fortunately they were good savers. Otherwise, my mom would have NO money for insurance and she would be in Medicare (which we'd pay for) and she would probably have to go on some type of assistance - food stamps (which we would pay for). So let's be glad she didn't buy into the free spending mentality or else we would be paying a whole lot more for her! I have never in my life heard someone as callous and cynical as you. I hope that your savings account thanks you at your funeral because it sounds like that is all you look out for in life. Karma...
My dad never lived to learn that they were going to reduce the pension plans. Because my mom was not the employee, she does not qualify for the whole pension, and now, she gets only a fraction of that. She is working - a $10/hr job, 32 hours a week, and she is a 58 year old widow. How dare you call them fools for believing the company - why shouldn't they have in 1971? How dare you classify all retirees in the category. A lot of these men and women were college educated, hard working adults. My dad never made what your precious accounting salary gets you, and he had an MBA. My parents never sued GM for his injury, they trusted the company to keep its word and take care of them like they said they would. All of these retirees are people. They have stories, hardships, feelings. It seems like you may have forgotten that. What if this happened to your parents? Would you tell them "quit whining and get a job?" I sincerely doubt it, unless you truly are that insensitive. I do wish that the taxpayers didn't have to pay for it, Delphi should have done what they said they were going to. These retirees aren't even demanding that the taxpayers pay it, they ultimately would like Delphi to pick up the tab. But it is NOT fair to say these people were fools and deserve this in any way.... No one deserves this. Please think of other people before you go slamming an entire group of people you don't actually know. I think it's very admirable the people out there who can sympathize and stand beside those among us who are less fortunate, even if it doesn't directly affect them. An injustice is an injustice, regardless. Some things are black and white, and if you made a promise and then break that promise and that has dire effects on others, that is an injustice. Talk about entitlement, what does Delphi feel it is so entitled to that it makes alright for them to screw over the people that helped them get to the top?
I find most of your comments to be insulting, offensive, unsympathetic, and lacking respect for others. You don't know all of the salaried workers.. I'd like to introduce you to one, my dad.
My dad was hired in at GM in 1971 with a Bachelor's degree in engineering from Michigan Tech - he was a salary employee - no union. In 1976, a 600 lb. metal crate fell on him and shattered his bottom 5 vertebrae. He spent 6 months in the hospital recovering. He was offered disability and refused. Instead, at the age of 30, spent months in physical therapy learning how to walk with a cane. He went back to work - full time, as a plant manager. In 1991, he was transferred to Delphi, without any consent - just transferred. In 1993 he underwent major reconstructive back surgery for the second time and was again laid up for 6 months. He went back to work, part time. He was passed over for several promotions because he was physically unable to perform the necessary tasks and work the long hours. In 1996, he graduated from SVSU with his MBA - still no promotion. In January 2001 (the year I was getting married), Delphi told him he either had to retire or be able to work full time - they would no longer keep him on part time. My dad was 55 years old, and made to retire because he couldn't do his job full time due to an injury they caused. In 2007 my dad was diagnosed with Leukemia. He underwent many rounds of chemo and a bone marrow transplant. My parents had to rent an apartment in Ann Arbor for 6 months to be near the hospital, and my mom had to quit her job to take care of him. He then suffered from Host V Graft disease as a result of the transplant. Their only source of relief in all of this was that they had good insurance and retirement was taken care of. Even with that good insurance and my dad's pension plan, they were still spending more in one year on medical related expenses than what they were bringing in. When my parents received the notice in February 2009, that they were going to lose their benefits, my dad was taking more than 40 prescription medications a day, not too mention all of the over the counter meds he needed. They were practically uninsurable. To insure my dad (even with Medicare), was going to cost them more per month than their per month income from his pension - and that didn't cover my mom. A life insurance policy, was going to cost them more than my mortgage payment each month - and that was for a policy half the size of what Delphi had promised them. In April of 2009, my dad died from complications related to the transplant. He entered into Hospice care saying this was probably for the best, it would be cheaper this way. My mom would now be able to afford insurance on his pension payment. He died with the satisfaction and comfort that his wife would be taken care of after he was gone because of all the hard work he had given over the years.
First of all let me say, You're right. It shouldn't have to be the taxpayers job to pay for benefits and retirements to people who were supposed to have them secured through their employer. That being said, the employer did not hold up their end of the deal, and like it or not, taxpayer will pay for it one way or another. If we don't have to pay for it this way, most of these retirees will wind up on medicaid and other welfare programs, they are at risk of losing their homes - who pays for that? Also, please let me clarify one other important point - the union members are NOT the ones we're paying for, they are covered by their precious little unions, and they won't budge. Our taxes are covering for the retired salaried employees. These men and women were told that lifelong benefits and retirement were bundled in as part of their annual salary. They didn't bring home as much as the union guys, but they had assurance that their families were going to be taken care of. They have budgeted their golden years finances with the understanding that they did not have to pay for insurance. Now they are facing $600/mo insurance payments, and their pensions have been drastically reduced! I don't think the taxpayers should have to pay for it, I believe Delphi should do what they said they were going to, and honor all of the hard work that their salaried employees gave them over the years. The government, should not allow companies to be able to back out of their promises to employees. But because they have, there is no fair way for it to go down. Is it fair that these workers lose what they have earned and worked for for so many years? Is it fair that we have to pay for it? Is it fair that Delphi was allowed to go back on it's promise? None of this is fair... but I'm not seeing what other choice there is.
Why should taxpayers pick up the tab for GM and Delphi excesses?
FYI... There was not a settlement payment. In fact, we had to take them to court to get them to pay for medicines that insurance wouldn't cover that he needed as a direct result of the accident.
October 22, 2009 at 1:54 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Why should taxpayers pick up the tab for GM and Delphi excesses?
All I can say is I feel very sorry for you... Sorry that life has been so horrible to you that you are a mean and cynical person. Sorry that you feel the need to be rude to others. Sorry that you distrust everyone and have no sense of loyalty. Sorry that you have no care for others.
Just because I have a sad story, doesn't mean I don't have room in my heart to care about your sad story. It's sad to think that you are so wrapped up in your self-righteous, looking out for number 1 attitude, that you don't have the time, room, or compassion it takes to care about others.
FYI... Neither I, nor my mother are asking the taxpayers to pay for her expenses. GM/Delphi asked for that. We have written letters to the bankruptcy judge objecting to letting Delphi off the hook. We ARE fighting this out in court. However, having our voices heard (which is not the same as whining), gives us a better shot at getting what those workers earned - their pensions and benefits.
My parents were not fools for suing. They have something called principles. They believed that it was an accident, not a malicious act, and that all of their medical expenses would be covered. That is what they were told. I will not tolerate you, or anyone else, judging them for doing the actual right thing. You talk about an entitlement society... this is a perfect example of NOT living that life. My parents modeled for me an example life full of honesty, hard work, and not taking what doesn't belong to you. They also taught me that if I made a promise to someone, I kept it. They taught me to care about others - a lesson you seemed to have missed.
As for the employees driving them to bankruptcy - I have to pass that off the union workers, who by the way are still receiving their benefits and pensions.
And as for "the benefit of working for the highest paying employer..." He earned that benefit by going to college and working hard. This was not handed to him on a platter, he worked for it, much like you work for your paycheck - which sounds like it's very nice. Do I begrudge you that because you have an accounting degree and I don't? No, that was my choice to study a different field. I have no idea what your parents did for a living, but if your dad had an engineering degree, perhaps he would have been privilege to the same opportunity. My parents lived a very modest life. And fortunately they were good savers. Otherwise, my mom would have NO money for insurance and she would be in Medicare (which we'd pay for) and she would probably have to go on some type of assistance - food stamps (which we would pay for). So let's be glad she didn't buy into the free spending mentality or else we would be paying a whole lot more for her!
I have never in my life heard someone as callous and cynical as you. I hope that your savings account thanks you at your funeral because it sounds like that is all you look out for in life.
Karma...
October 22, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Why should taxpayers pick up the tab for GM and Delphi excesses?
omg... I am so embarrassed - too much cold medicine for me - I meant a "sea" of crazy...
October 22, 2009 at 11:52 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Why should taxpayers pick up the tab for GM and Delphi excesses?
Thanks Jeff.
I appreciate your comments throughout - a voice of sanity in a see of crazy :)
October 22, 2009 at 11:46 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Why should taxpayers pick up the tab for GM and Delphi excesses?
(cont'd)
My dad never lived to learn that they were going to reduce the pension plans. Because my mom was not the employee, she does not qualify for the whole pension, and now, she gets only a fraction of that. She is working - a $10/hr job, 32 hours a week, and she is a 58 year old widow.
How dare you call them fools for believing the company - why shouldn't they have in 1971? How dare you classify all retirees in the category. A lot of these men and women were college educated, hard working adults. My dad never made what your precious accounting salary gets you, and he had an MBA. My parents never sued GM for his injury, they trusted the company to keep its word and take care of them like they said they would.
All of these retirees are people. They have stories, hardships, feelings. It seems like you may have forgotten that. What if this happened to your parents? Would you tell them "quit whining and get a job?" I sincerely doubt it, unless you truly are that insensitive.
I do wish that the taxpayers didn't have to pay for it, Delphi should have done what they said they were going to. These retirees aren't even demanding that the taxpayers pay it, they ultimately would like Delphi to pick up the tab. But it is NOT fair to say these people were fools and deserve this in any way.... No one deserves this.
Please think of other people before you go slamming an entire group of people you don't actually know. I think it's very admirable the people out there who can sympathize and stand beside those among us who are less fortunate, even if it doesn't directly affect them. An injustice is an injustice, regardless. Some things are black and white, and if you made a promise and then break that promise and that has dire effects on others, that is an injustice. Talk about entitlement, what does Delphi feel it is so entitled to that it makes alright for them to screw over the people that helped them get to the top?
October 22, 2009 at 11:16 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Why should taxpayers pick up the tab for GM and Delphi excesses?
Jennychan -
I find most of your comments to be insulting, offensive, unsympathetic, and lacking respect for others. You don't know all of the salaried workers.. I'd like to introduce you to one, my dad.
My dad was hired in at GM in 1971 with a Bachelor's degree in engineering from Michigan Tech - he was a salary employee - no union. In 1976, a 600 lb. metal crate fell on him and shattered his bottom 5 vertebrae. He spent 6 months in the hospital recovering. He was offered disability and refused. Instead, at the age of 30, spent months in physical therapy learning how to walk with a cane. He went back to work - full time, as a plant manager.
In 1991, he was transferred to Delphi, without any consent - just transferred. In 1993 he underwent major reconstructive back surgery for the second time and was again laid up for 6 months. He went back to work, part time. He was passed over for several promotions because he was physically unable to perform the necessary tasks and work the long hours. In 1996, he graduated from SVSU with his MBA - still no promotion.
In January 2001 (the year I was getting married), Delphi told him he either had to retire or be able to work full time - they would no longer keep him on part time. My dad was 55 years old, and made to retire because he couldn't do his job full time due to an injury they caused.
In 2007 my dad was diagnosed with Leukemia. He underwent many rounds of chemo and a bone marrow transplant. My parents had to rent an apartment in Ann Arbor for 6 months to be near the hospital, and my mom had to quit her job to take care of him. He then suffered from Host V Graft disease as a result of the transplant. Their only source of relief in all of this was that they had good insurance and retirement was taken care of. Even with that good insurance and my dad's pension plan, they were still spending more in one year on medical related expenses than what they were bringing in.
When my parents received the notice in February 2009, that they were going to lose their benefits, my dad was taking more than 40 prescription medications a day, not too mention all of the over the counter meds he needed. They were practically uninsurable. To insure my dad (even with Medicare), was going to cost them more per month than their per month income from his pension - and that didn't cover my mom. A life insurance policy, was going to cost them more than my mortgage payment each month - and that was for a policy half the size of what Delphi had promised them.
In April of 2009, my dad died from complications related to the transplant. He entered into Hospice care saying this was probably for the best, it would be cheaper this way. My mom would now be able to afford insurance on his pension payment. He died with the satisfaction and comfort that his wife would be taken care of after he was gone because of all the hard work he had given over the years.
October 22, 2009 at 11:14 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Why should taxpayers pick up the tab for GM and Delphi excesses?
First of all let me say, You're right. It shouldn't have to be the taxpayers job to pay for benefits and retirements to people who were supposed to have them secured through their employer. That being said, the employer did not hold up their end of the deal, and like it or not, taxpayer will pay for it one way or another. If we don't have to pay for it this way, most of these retirees will wind up on medicaid and other welfare programs, they are at risk of losing their homes - who pays for that?
Also, please let me clarify one other important point - the union members are NOT the ones we're paying for, they are covered by their precious little unions, and they won't budge. Our taxes are covering for the retired salaried employees. These men and women were told that lifelong benefits and retirement were bundled in as part of their annual salary. They didn't bring home as much as the union guys, but they had assurance that their families were going to be taken care of. They have budgeted their golden years finances with the understanding that they did not have to pay for insurance. Now they are facing $600/mo insurance payments, and their pensions have been drastically reduced!
I don't think the taxpayers should have to pay for it, I believe Delphi should do what they said they were going to, and honor all of the hard work that their salaried employees gave them over the years. The government, should not allow companies to be able to back out of their promises to employees. But because they have, there is no fair way for it to go down. Is it fair that these workers lose what they have earned and worked for for so many years? Is it fair that we have to pay for it? Is it fair that Delphi was allowed to go back on it's promise? None of this is fair... but I'm not seeing what other choice there is.
October 18, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. permalink suggest removal