Will the Vindicator explain why it even printed this inflammatory and inaccurate piece? The 20th century paradigm that worked as we became dominant in the world economy was a mix of government and private sector functions. Government plays an umpire role. That's where Obama is - in the middle of the political spectrum functioning during his lifetime. With people shrugging and mouthing "BS" when these guys screamed "socialist!" they need to trot out "fascist" - a word with much freight in modern American history - for the "think with our brain stems" crowd. Anti-war demonstrators called Nixon a fascist (I guess he did sign the Environmental Protection Act of 1970 and similar legislation and tried price controls). How about the Vindy try to keep the debate at the level of facts?
It is just so typical for a geologist to be whacked for overlooking political policy implications. Those I know (I know many well and I am one kind of) expect policy and discourse to be fact-based. Larry would look at that memo and say - "Here's the data as I interpret them, deal with it." Or maybe he was just tired of it all.
Although ODNR is of the opinion (and "safe yield" - poor technique and term - studies indicate that we can "spare" the water) it just strikes me (as a water professional) as bad stewardship to permanently strand fresh water from the accessible hydrologic system in these formations for this purpose. Increasing recycling (possible technically) and increasing gas-technology HF, and removing the state's short-sighted ban on treatment and release of low-salt waste fluids should be high goals of the state. The E&P people will just use our cheaply obtained fresh water as long as they can. That 60-90 % retained by the shale is GONE until tectonics recycles those rocks in a few billion years.
The at-least-coincidental connections between deep well injection and these unusual earthquakes are finally getting the attention they deserves. That said, Bob Hagan's comments and attitude toward the ODNR people meet my standard for "bloviating" and he needs to apologize for implying that they are dishonest. He is certainly no "semi-expert". I'm a hydrogeologist not involved in oil and gas and I have known/watched the work of these guys for years. They aren't "bought." Any geologist is reluctant to make an outright cause-effect declaration based on the level of information they have now. Their hedging is typical caution. People are right to be concerned, but let them work it out - in the glaring light of informed public scrutiny.
What's the definition for "inducing panic"? This one is a collection of all the "antis" in one thick lozenge. Commenter Subra in the article is trying to link "methane, nitrate, sulfate and arsenic" to drilling and hydrofracturing activities? Sorry folks, but arsenic and sulfate are common in some ground water, and methane is natural as well, all over big sections of OH and PA. PA lacks water well construction standards, and even with good standards, nitrate can get to ground water from the surface. We do public well water testing, and toluene and benzene in the atmosphere makes it very difficult to reach "zero" in samples. Some of these people feed the uninformed just enough to frighten. That's just irresponsible, and then casts doubt on reasonable voices for caution in this gold rush.
Tomcat - that was probably natural tectonic shifting. While rare in that setting, the Atlantic sea floor is still spreading and stresses have to be relieved. That's the world we live on. The New Madrid, Missouri earthquakes in the early 1820s were among the worst in North American history. It was a good thing that population and development was low at that time. Western Ohio is the 2nd most seismically active area in the eastern USA (all natural). Go look at any rock outcrop - it's fractured. I'm a hydrogeologist (no economic dog in this fight) and not against resource drilling. I grew up with gas wells all around as have many of you. Fresh water impacts were rare, even in the old Wild West days. If (as seems likely) injection caused these alarming earthquakes, it needs to stop or be modified. By all means, document your damages and seek compensation. Risk should not be transferred to the public. The state people are technically correct that the other 177 Class II (brine) injection wells have not caused similar earthquakes (Ashtabula was Class I wells) but that's splitting hairs. There is a lot of hubris in the oil patch. A lot more analysis needs to go into injection well siting. Better yet, a) a big push is made to employ treatment methods that allow recycling and other productive use of this fluid, and b) more use of gas hydrofracturing methods. All people in affected areas should have wells and surface water tested. Above all, lead with the front of your brain, not the brain stem. I'm used to newspapers totally mangling anything having to do with water and the underground. The Vindy is doing a really credible job of covering this. Also, the ODNR professionals have been exactly that and don't deserve anyone's scorn and venom. They do need to hear what you think and feel.
Valley pastors: Turn off cynicism; tune in values on Election Day
If you knew the clergy and churches that are the subject of this piece, the last thing they want is to control the government. Come and see.
November 2, 2012 at 10:11 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Obama isn’t a socialist, he’s worse: A fascist
Will the Vindicator explain why it even printed this inflammatory and inaccurate piece? The 20th century paradigm that worked as we became dominant in the world economy was a mix of government and private sector functions. Government plays an umpire role. That's where Obama is - in the middle of the political spectrum functioning during his lifetime. With people shrugging and mouthing "BS" when these guys screamed "socialist!" they need to trot out "fascist" - a word with much freight in modern American history - for the "think with our brain stems" crowd. Anti-war demonstrators called Nixon a fascist (I guess he did sign the Environmental Protection Act of 1970 and similar legislation and tried price controls). How about the Vindy try to keep the debate at the level of facts?
June 13, 2012 at 4:32 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Ohio geologist demoted for excluding boss
It is just so typical for a geologist to be whacked for overlooking political policy implications. Those I know (I know many well and I am one kind of) expect policy and discourse to be fact-based. Larry would look at that memo and say - "Here's the data as I interpret them, deal with it." Or maybe he was just tired of it all.
June 13, 2012 at 4:23 p.m. permalink suggest removal
WATER, WATER, EVERYWHERE ... But enough for fracking?
Although ODNR is of the opinion (and "safe yield" - poor technique and term - studies indicate that we can "spare" the water) it just strikes me (as a water professional) as bad stewardship to permanently strand fresh water from the accessible hydrologic system in these formations for this purpose. Increasing recycling (possible technically) and increasing gas-technology HF, and removing the state's short-sighted ban on treatment and release of low-salt waste fluids should be high goals of the state. The E&P people will just use our cheaply obtained fresh water as long as they can. That 60-90 % retained by the shale is GONE until tectonics recycles those rocks in a few billion years.
May 30, 2012 at 12:01 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Another Ohio community rocked by quakes
The at-least-coincidental connections between deep well injection and these unusual earthquakes are finally getting the attention they deserves. That said, Bob Hagan's comments and attitude toward the ODNR people meet my standard for "bloviating" and he needs to apologize for implying that they are dishonest. He is certainly no "semi-expert". I'm a hydrogeologist not involved in oil and gas and I have known/watched the work of these guys for years. They aren't "bought." Any geologist is reluctant to make an outright cause-effect declaration based on the level of information they have now. Their hedging is typical caution. People are right to be concerned, but let them work it out - in the glaring light of informed public scrutiny.
January 16, 2012 at 10:47 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Speaker: Process will cause ‘crisis’
What's the definition for "inducing panic"? This one is a collection of all the "antis" in one thick lozenge. Commenter Subra in the article is trying to link "methane, nitrate, sulfate and arsenic" to drilling and hydrofracturing activities? Sorry folks, but arsenic and sulfate are common in some ground water, and methane is natural as well, all over big sections of OH and PA. PA lacks water well construction standards, and even with good standards, nitrate can get to ground water from the surface. We do public well water testing, and toluene and benzene in the atmosphere makes it very difficult to reach "zero" in samples. Some of these people feed the uninformed just enough to frighten. That's just irresponsible, and then casts doubt on reasonable voices for caution in this gold rush.
January 10, 2012 at 8:19 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Count on more Valley quakes, seismologist warns
Tomcat - that was probably natural tectonic shifting. While rare in that setting, the Atlantic sea floor is still spreading and stresses have to be relieved. That's the world we live on. The New Madrid, Missouri earthquakes in the early 1820s were among the worst in North American history. It was a good thing that population and development was low at that time. Western Ohio is the 2nd most seismically active area in the eastern USA (all natural). Go look at any rock outcrop - it's fractured. I'm a hydrogeologist (no economic dog in this fight) and not against resource drilling. I grew up with gas wells all around as have many of you. Fresh water impacts were rare, even in the old Wild West days. If (as seems likely) injection caused these alarming earthquakes, it needs to stop or be modified. By all means, document your damages and seek compensation. Risk should not be transferred to the public. The state people are technically correct that the other 177 Class II (brine) injection wells have not caused similar earthquakes (Ashtabula was Class I wells) but that's splitting hairs. There is a lot of hubris in the oil patch. A lot more analysis needs to go into injection well siting. Better yet, a) a big push is made to employ treatment methods that allow recycling and other productive use of this fluid, and b) more use of gas hydrofracturing methods. All people in affected areas should have wells and surface water tested. Above all, lead with the front of your brain, not the brain stem. I'm used to newspapers totally mangling anything having to do with water and the underground. The Vindy is doing a really credible job of covering this. Also, the ODNR professionals have been exactly that and don't deserve anyone's scorn and venom. They do need to hear what you think and feel.
January 5, 2012 at 11:10 p.m. permalink suggest removal