I come from a working class background. In fact, my uncle retired from Honda in Marysville. It simply boggles my mind that these union guys just can't let go of all of these benefits to save their jobs. The benefits my uncle got from Honda are just fine, but what's more important is that they aren't breaking the back of their employer. That means Honda has enough money to build cars people want and invest in their product ... and even though their cars are ugly and dull, they are a sheer joy to drive because they have the money to make them that way.
The union mentality of gimme, gimme, gimme, doesn't work anymore. GM has been hobbled by years and years and years of having a $2,000 per car cost disadvantage. This has forced them to cheapen the cars, to take longer to refresh them, to stick with push-rod engines first designed in the 1950's and 1960's ........ Remember the last-generation Chevy Citation that went 11 years before a re-do?
First priority should be the customer, and providing VALUE to that customer. To do that, the company has to make money and invest in product. Job banks, VEBA, and the rest of their goodies detract from the mission of providing their customer the best product and the best value for the price. These people all lost sight of that, and that's why GM's market share is less than half of what it was 40 years ago.
Anyway, it still befuddles me that nobody seems to understand that GM;'s checkbook has run dry. They can't afford corporate largess anymore. They can't afford to pay people who aren't producing cars. Yet everybody is still acting like its business as usual. You'd think there would be more of a sense of urgency, but I guess none of these people get it. What a shame.
I never said I agree with the CEO's. In fact, GM's management has made a lot of brain-dead decisions over the years. But what I stated was a plain and simple fact. You can whine about all the pay and all the benefits you want, but there simply is no money for it. Just like your checkbook will only go so far each month, GM's can only go so far. NOBODY CAN AFFORD TO PAY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT WORKING TO SIT AROUND FOR THREE YEARS -- NOBODY. Because of these lavish benefits, you cost GM $2,000 more per car. That means for the same priced car, you are buying $2,000 less car. That's why GM has cheaper interiors, push-rod engines, and parts that don't stand the test of time. And that's why you guys keep losing customers and your market share keeps shrinking.
Between my parents, brother, and myself, we have purchased 7 Honda products over the last 25 years or so. It is simply amazing how little service these cars need ... and how nothing breaks inside. Even though Honda Accords have gotten pretty ugly, in my opinion, when it came time for my father to buy another car in March guess what he bought? Most people will agree that Hondas are the best-engineered cars out there.
This is not to say that GM can't make a car like this. They can. Unfortuntately they have to cheapen the cars they make to make up for the cost difference. That's why they lose customers.
The same story repeats itself over and over again. Kmart versus Ontario; Walmart versus Kmart; Computers; Televisions; etc. If you can provide a better product cheaper, you win. That's what capitalism is all about. There is nothing anybody can do about this other than to adjust to the realities of the marketplace.
Cambridge: What you say is well and good, but they can't afford it. THEY ARE OUT OF MONEY. So, the question for all these union guys is, do you refuse to change with the times and starve yourself out of a job or do you resign yourself to the realities of the market and adjust yourself accordingly. 15 years ago, any decent desktop computer cost $2,000, now you can pick one up for around $500. The companies that couldn't adjust to this reality are not making computers anymore.
I also don't have a problem with union guys making a decent wage. I do, however, have a problem with the union mentality that it's the company's job to support you from cradle to grave. GM has something like 50,000 employees, but pays health care and retirement for 500,000. GM is still hamstrung by subpay at 95% ... in other words, even when business goes down, they are still stuck paying wages for up to 3 years. Bill Gates can't even afford to do this ... GOD can't even afford to do this!!!
I am all for someone making a good living working for the company, if the company can afford it. If the company can't afford it, yoiu need to find something else to do.
A small car takes no less steps to build than a big car. How are you going to make money on a car that's supposed to competewith a $7995 Kia using $73/hour labor? Isn't it smarter to let them import cars where it makes sense, and build others that make sense here? What amazes me is that it's always easy to spend someone else's money, but the name of the game is PROFIT. If your employer makes PROFIT, everything else is good. But if you force them to be a social services agency, well ... you can all see the outcome of that experiment.
<i>" I am drafting legislation to stop this outrage against hardworking Michigan families who play by the rules and struggle these days to make ends meet. My measure would prohibit President Obama's Auto Task Force from approving any GM or Chrysler restructuring plan that sends auto jobs overseas."</i>
LMAO!!! So he's going to force them to build small cars here at a loss? Or is the alternative to NOT build small cars at all ... and continue building BIG CARS at a profit? Isn't that what got them into this mess to begin with? How about just leaving them alone and just letting them run their business without a bunch of failed lawyers telling them what to build or not. Why do you people place so much faith in these failed lawyers who become politicians? If you can't make a profit charging $200 an hour, what makes anybody think they know how to run a car company?
I feel for the UAW guys, but the days of cradle-to-grave corporate socialism is over. Take what the market will bear and stop bleeding these companies dry!
Yup, I'm sure all those $73 an hour UAW employees will be able to churn out many affordable small cars and make loads of money for their employers ... LMAO!!! Stick a fork in it, GM is done. If the UAW still hasn't figured out that their employer is not a glorified charity, as future owners even, then there is no hope for GM or the Great Lakes states.
Hagan blasts GM plan to import cars it made in China
I come from a working class background. In fact, my uncle retired from Honda in Marysville. It simply boggles my mind that these union guys just can't let go of all of these benefits to save their jobs. The benefits my uncle got from Honda are just fine, but what's more important is that they aren't breaking the back of their employer. That means Honda has enough money to build cars people want and invest in their product ... and even though their cars are ugly and dull, they are a sheer joy to drive because they have the money to make them that way.
The union mentality of gimme, gimme, gimme, doesn't work anymore. GM has been hobbled by years and years and years of having a $2,000 per car cost disadvantage. This has forced them to cheapen the cars, to take longer to refresh them, to stick with push-rod engines first designed in the 1950's and 1960's ........ Remember the last-generation Chevy Citation that went 11 years before a re-do?
First priority should be the customer, and providing VALUE to that customer. To do that, the company has to make money and invest in product. Job banks, VEBA, and the rest of their goodies detract from the mission of providing their customer the best product and the best value for the price. These people all lost sight of that, and that's why GM's market share is less than half of what it was 40 years ago.
Anyway, it still befuddles me that nobody seems to understand that GM;'s checkbook has run dry. They can't afford corporate largess anymore. They can't afford to pay people who aren't producing cars. Yet everybody is still acting like its business as usual. You'd think there would be more of a sense of urgency, but I guess none of these people get it. What a shame.
May 17, 2009 at 9:17 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Hagan blasts GM plan to import cars it made in China
I never said I agree with the CEO's. In fact, GM's management has made a lot of brain-dead decisions over the years. But what I stated was a plain and simple fact. You can whine about all the pay and all the benefits you want, but there simply is no money for it. Just like your checkbook will only go so far each month, GM's can only go so far. NOBODY CAN AFFORD TO PAY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT WORKING TO SIT AROUND FOR THREE YEARS -- NOBODY. Because of these lavish benefits, you cost GM $2,000 more per car. That means for the same priced car, you are buying $2,000 less car. That's why GM has cheaper interiors, push-rod engines, and parts that don't stand the test of time. And that's why you guys keep losing customers and your market share keeps shrinking.
Between my parents, brother, and myself, we have purchased 7 Honda products over the last 25 years or so. It is simply amazing how little service these cars need ... and how nothing breaks inside. Even though Honda Accords have gotten pretty ugly, in my opinion, when it came time for my father to buy another car in March guess what he bought? Most people will agree that Hondas are the best-engineered cars out there.
This is not to say that GM can't make a car like this. They can. Unfortuntately they have to cheapen the cars they make to make up for the cost difference. That's why they lose customers.
The same story repeats itself over and over again. Kmart versus Ontario; Walmart versus Kmart; Computers; Televisions; etc. If you can provide a better product cheaper, you win. That's what capitalism is all about. There is nothing anybody can do about this other than to adjust to the realities of the marketplace.
May 16, 2009 at 1:40 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Hagan blasts GM plan to import cars it made in China
Cambridge: What you say is well and good, but they can't afford it. THEY ARE OUT OF MONEY. So, the question for all these union guys is, do you refuse to change with the times and starve yourself out of a job or do you resign yourself to the realities of the market and adjust yourself accordingly. 15 years ago, any decent desktop computer cost $2,000, now you can pick one up for around $500. The companies that couldn't adjust to this reality are not making computers anymore.
May 16, 2009 at 11 a.m. permalink suggest removal
Hagan blasts GM plan to import cars it made in China
I also don't have a problem with union guys making a decent wage. I do, however, have a problem with the union mentality that it's the company's job to support you from cradle to grave. GM has something like 50,000 employees, but pays health care and retirement for 500,000. GM is still hamstrung by subpay at 95% ... in other words, even when business goes down, they are still stuck paying wages for up to 3 years. Bill Gates can't even afford to do this ... GOD can't even afford to do this!!!
I am all for someone making a good living working for the company, if the company can afford it. If the company can't afford it, yoiu need to find something else to do.
May 15, 2009 at 9:44 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Hagan blasts GM plan to import cars it made in China
A small car takes no less steps to build than a big car. How are you going to make money on a car that's supposed to competewith a $7995 Kia using $73/hour labor? Isn't it smarter to let them import cars where it makes sense, and build others that make sense here? What amazes me is that it's always easy to spend someone else's money, but the name of the game is PROFIT. If your employer makes PROFIT, everything else is good. But if you force them to be a social services agency, well ... you can all see the outcome of that experiment.
May 15, 2009 at 8:51 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Hagan blasts GM plan to import cars it made in China
<i>" I am drafting legislation to stop this outrage against hardworking Michigan families who play by the rules and struggle these days to make ends meet. My measure would prohibit President Obama's Auto Task Force from approving any GM or Chrysler restructuring plan that sends auto jobs overseas."</i>
LMAO!!! So he's going to force them to build small cars here at a loss? Or is the alternative to NOT build small cars at all ... and continue building BIG CARS at a profit? Isn't that what got them into this mess to begin with? How about just leaving them alone and just letting them run their business without a bunch of failed lawyers telling them what to build or not. Why do you people place so much faith in these failed lawyers who become politicians? If you can't make a profit charging $200 an hour, what makes anybody think they know how to run a car company?
I feel for the UAW guys, but the days of cradle-to-grave corporate socialism is over. Take what the market will bear and stop bleeding these companies dry!
May 15, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Hagan blasts GM plan to import cars it made in China
Yup, I'm sure all those $73 an hour UAW employees will be able to churn out many affordable small cars and make loads of money for their employers ... LMAO!!! Stick a fork in it, GM is done. If the UAW still hasn't figured out that their employer is not a glorified charity, as future owners even, then there is no hope for GM or the Great Lakes states.
May 15, 2009 at 5:02 p.m. permalink suggest removal