Many of you are missing the point. It's easy to criticize a small business or any employer while sitting behind a keyboard. And the hourly wage is not near the final cost to employ and individual. All other costs related go up exponentially. Here's a small example of the real world:
We generally hire summer help. The amount we hire depends on many things. Usually High School or College kids off school. We had a teenage girl working for us a couple summers ago. She came to me one day (literally) crying because she had just received a $300 cell phone bill one month. We've had many high school kids apply for work that can't read a tape measure. Couldn't add ¼ plus ½. I'm not kidding. Another individual would routinely not show up for work, or leave complaining of a belly ache. After several warnings we let him go. After letting them go, the (single) parent stopped in and pleaded with me to keep them, and then reamed me for letting them go when I refused to give them a 5th or 6th chance. I could give you countless examples of bad experiences. You think I'm exaggerating? Nope. This is the mentality of many minimum wage young people. $7.70 an hour doesn't sound like much. It isn't if the individual EARNS it. You think dealing with minimum wage employees is easy? Open your own business and try it. It's a whole different world when it's your livelihood or life savings at risk.
Minimum wage entry level jobs were never intended to feed a family. Most of these jobs are targeted to teenagers. These are teenagers that lately seem to have no economic common sense. $100+ month cell phone bills. Cars with electronics in them that many high wage earners could not afford. Just when I think I've seen it all, I get a new lesson. You think it's rare? It's not. We've hired summer help for years. It's very rare to find an individual with a good work ethic these days. They're out there. We've had several over the past few years. Many worked several summers earning higher rates. A couple have stayed on after finishing school and are now earning that “living wage”. But it's nothing like it used to be.
Springman You state "I probably pay more in tax than you make.." That's quite possible. I've been a controller/general manager at a local small business for 33 years. The past 2-3 years have been a tremendous struggle for our business. I am involved with the "nuts & bolts" and see the taxes a business is forced to fork over. It takes enormous amounts labor just to deal with all the different taxes, let alone pay them. I believe, like many, taxes are strangling the economy. Not the wars. If a tax cut increases revenue to the Government, how is a tax cut bad? There eventually has to comes a point where taxes are too high slowing tax revenue. Isn't it possible we have reached that point?
You said "By defending the Bush tax cuts, you are defending the "all guns," no butter position." This is an unfair assumption about me or anyone supporting the Bush tax cuts. I in no way support unnecessary wars. And I don't necessarily support the Bush tax cuts, but I do support tax cuts in general when targeted to the right area. The right area is the debate. The "tax cuts for the rich" statement narrowly stereotypes anyone making over $250,000 as of no value to our economy. So tax them into oblivion. Many of the "Rich" own businesses and create jobs.
Our economy, and the world economy is very complicated. I by no means claim to completely understand it. I have a business degree, but that doesn't make me an expert on anything. Some of the best education I have gotten came through "the school of hard knocks". For instance, my personal experience: I have a small low risk mutual fund that I have put $50 month into for the past 25 years, and in 1998 I had to pay capital gains tax on it even though it was worth 37% less than the prior year. And I have never made anywhere near $250,000. I could have bought my wife a nice gift with the tax I had to pay.
cambridge: When are you going to give us something to back up your opinions? Without some supporting evidence of what you say your opinions are baseless and have no credibility. Check out the link Nonsocialist has provided. His argument is very compelling. Nonsocialist has listed many facts that can be verified. Anyone can say what you are saying, but that does not make it true. You say "More jobs were created during the Clinton administration than the reagan administration and Clinton created more jobs than both bush's combined." Point me to some evidence please.
Anyone can bash a president and make baseless emotional statements, but you won't convince me or anyone until you back up your opinions.
cambridge: I understand your mathematics, but explain your point better-why do you only consider the population when you say "that's a little out of whack". Isn't our US economy the largest in the world? Our GDP is one of the highest in the world, if not the highest. What numbers do you want to factor in? The countries most at risk? The countries with the highest GDP? The countries that value their freedom the most? Just what do we want to factor into the pie chart?
Personally, I like my freedom. I don't mind putting a few more of my tax dollars into it. No one else in the world cares about us. Do they? So we have to defend ourselves. And sometimes go to other places to keep the bad guys from coming here. Iraq isn't the first time we went somewhere else to keep our country safe.
As our discussion drifts away from the point of the vindy article (taxes) tax rates have gotten out of control. I believe analyzing and deciding tax rates are much like a business pricing a product for sale. Set your price it too high and sales are lost, price it too low and not enough profit is made to cover costs. Both scenarios could ruin a business. Tax rates have a similar influence on income to the Treasury. Tax rates too high and business slows, lowering income to Treasury, too low and it has an similar effect. Finding that magic number is not Rocket Science. If the goal is to maximize Treasury income lowering taxes has proven to accomplish this.
First, I have a great deal of respect for all current & former service men and women. Thank you, Springman, for your service! I mean that sincerely. And thanks to all active service men/women, and veterans we are safe and free. Free to post on this blog and do anything we want within the laws of the USA. I sincerely appreciate that freedom. Not nearly enough respect is given to current and former service-people for their part in keeping us safe & free. We live in the greatest country in the world, and we owe a great deal to our past & present military. They are always in my thoughts and prayers.
I went to the web sites you linked to. I am open minded and love to learn. I've been wrong before, and have been persuaded to see things differently. I try to look at all sides. I found the pie chart "The Government Deception" on “War Resisters League” web site interesting. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about it. Agree or disagree?
Would it be wrong to view the US Budget as every dollar they collect for any purpose? Congress controls it all, they make the budget.
If we narrowly look at the Federal Government as the “War Resisters League” site suggests, excluding all the social programs etc., why do we need the Federal Government for more than Defense and Judicial? And, shouldn't defense be a big part of our budget because of it's importance?
I respectfully disagree with your statement that the Bush tax cuts had a negative effect. Tax cuts in general should always have a positive effect. I am in the lower income brackets, and my paycheck has been reduced because of cut backs the past 2-3 years. I work 2 jobs along with side work to make ends meet. I still feel pick-pocketed every time I look at the taxes withheld from my pay. Add up your tax burden sometime. Payroll taxes out of your paycheck, property tax, sales tax, gasoline (42 cents a gallon last I heard), taxes buried in the cost of everything you purchase, etc. It might surprise everyone how much they contribute to Fed, State and Local Uncle Sams. In my humble opinion, we ALL are over taxed.
Springman, you stated "Most of our tax dollars go to the military. All the other stuff amounts to peanuts ......". Are you kidding me? Where did you get these figures? Our military budget is a large piece of the pie, but according to Government web site Medicare isn't far behind the TOTAL Defense Budget. Add Social Security and Medicare together and the total Defense Budget isn't even close. Then add all the other social programs, and other parts of the budget and to say the Military budget is "Most of our tax dollars" is just simply not true. Care to site your sources of information?
You want growth? Solution: Cut taxes, control spending. Smaller government. Problem with this solution-difficult to get our government to do it.
Stan ... your kidding, right? "Intolerance of mainstream society"? Being intolerant of this act is nothing more than "having fun". If this is considered having fun, and we are intolerant of this, then society needs to be bring this culture up to speed and be taught proper morals.
I hope you were being sarcastic and I misunderstood. I hope I misunderstood your post.
On the one hand: 1) I live several blocks away, and our home was broken into in February in the middle of the day and ransacked. Many of our treasured memories and possessions were stolen. Many that cannot be replaced. It is a devastating event. We were told others in the area have been hit. Could be police are patrolling more as a result. 2) I don't know the answer to this, maybe someone else does, but are there sidewalks in this area? Not that this is a big issue, but since we've been robbed, I'd now be suspicious of anyone going through the back yards of my neighborhood. 3) And heaven forbid if I came home with mud on my shoes when I was young.
On the other hand: 1) It seems very odd these young children were targeted. No doubt at least a little racial profiling was used. This is hard to excuse. 2) I would think the police officer could have dealt with this better. This sounds very excessive to me. These kids were awful young to be pulling a gun on them.
Some business owners say minimum wage hike forcing cuts
Many of you are missing the point. It's easy to criticize a small business or any employer while sitting behind a keyboard. And the hourly wage is not near the final cost to employ and individual. All other costs related go up exponentially. Here's a small example of the real world:
We generally hire summer help. The amount we hire depends on many things. Usually High School or College kids off school. We had a teenage girl working for us a couple summers ago. She came to me one day (literally) crying because she had just received a $300 cell phone bill one month. We've had many high school kids apply for work that can't read a tape measure. Couldn't add ¼ plus ½. I'm not kidding. Another individual would routinely not show up for work, or leave complaining of a belly ache. After several warnings we let him go. After letting them go, the (single) parent stopped in and pleaded with me to keep them, and then reamed me for letting them go when I refused to give them a 5th or 6th chance. I could give you countless examples of bad experiences. You think I'm exaggerating? Nope. This is the mentality of many minimum wage young people. $7.70 an hour doesn't sound like much. It isn't if the individual EARNS it. You think dealing with minimum wage employees is easy? Open your own business and try it. It's a whole different world when it's your livelihood or life savings at risk.
Minimum wage entry level jobs were never intended to feed a family. Most of these jobs are targeted to teenagers. These are teenagers that lately seem to have no economic common sense. $100+ month cell phone bills. Cars with electronics in them that many high wage earners could not afford. Just when I think I've seen it all, I get a new lesson. You think it's rare? It's not. We've hired summer help for years. It's very rare to find an individual with a good work ethic these days. They're out there. We've had several over the past few years. Many worked several summers earning higher rates. A couple have stayed on after finishing school and are now earning that “living wage”. But it's nothing like it used to be.
January 20, 2012 at 12:52 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Burning up over tanning tax
Springman
You state "I probably pay more in tax than you make.." That's quite possible. I've been a controller/general manager at a local small business for 33 years. The past 2-3 years have been a tremendous struggle for our business. I am involved with the "nuts & bolts" and see the taxes a business is forced to fork over. It takes enormous amounts labor just to deal with all the different taxes, let alone pay them. I believe, like many, taxes are strangling the economy. Not the wars. If a tax cut increases revenue to the Government, how is a tax cut bad? There eventually has to comes a point where taxes are too high slowing tax revenue. Isn't it possible we have reached that point?
You said "By defending the Bush tax cuts, you are defending the "all guns," no butter position." This is an unfair assumption about me or anyone supporting the Bush tax cuts. I in no way support unnecessary wars. And I don't necessarily support the Bush tax cuts, but I do support tax cuts in general when targeted to the right area. The right area is the debate. The "tax cuts for the rich" statement narrowly stereotypes anyone making over $250,000 as of no value to our economy. So tax them into oblivion. Many of the "Rich" own businesses and create jobs.
Our economy, and the world economy is very complicated. I by no means claim to completely understand it. I have a business degree, but that doesn't make me an expert on anything. Some of the best education I have gotten came through "the school of hard knocks". For instance, my personal experience: I have a small low risk mutual fund that I have put $50 month into for the past 25 years, and in 1998 I had to pay capital gains tax on it even though it was worth 37% less than the prior year. And I have never made anywhere near $250,000. I could have bought my wife a nice gift with the tax I had to pay.
November 24, 2010 at 2:32 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Burning up over tanning tax
cambridge:
When are you going to give us something to back up your opinions? Without some supporting evidence of what you say your opinions are baseless and have no credibility. Check out the link Nonsocialist has provided. His argument is very compelling. Nonsocialist has listed many facts that can be verified. Anyone can say what you are saying, but that does not make it true. You say "More jobs were created during the Clinton administration than the reagan administration and Clinton created more jobs than both bush's combined." Point me to some evidence please.
Anyone can bash a president and make baseless emotional statements, but you won't convince me or anyone until you back up your opinions.
November 24, 2010 at 2:28 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Burning up over tanning tax
cambridge: I understand your mathematics, but explain your point better-why do you only consider the population when you say "that's a little out of whack". Isn't our US economy the largest in the world? Our GDP is one of the highest in the world, if not the highest. What numbers do you want to factor in? The countries most at risk? The countries with the highest GDP? The countries that value their freedom the most? Just what do we want to factor into the pie chart?
Personally, I like my freedom. I don't mind putting a few more of my tax dollars into it. No one else in the world cares about us. Do they? So we have to defend ourselves. And sometimes go to other places to keep the bad guys from coming here. Iraq isn't the first time we went somewhere else to keep our country safe.
As our discussion drifts away from the point of the vindy article (taxes) tax rates have gotten out of control. I believe analyzing and deciding tax rates are much like a business pricing a product for sale. Set your price it too high and sales are lost, price it too low and not enough profit is made to cover costs. Both scenarios could ruin a business. Tax rates have a similar influence on income to the Treasury. Tax rates too high and business slows, lowering income to Treasury, too low and it has an similar effect. Finding that magic number is not Rocket Science. If the goal is to maximize Treasury income lowering taxes has proven to accomplish this.
Wikipedia that
November 22, 2010 at 1:11 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Burning up over tanning tax
First, I have a great deal of respect for all current & former service men and women. Thank you, Springman, for your service! I mean that sincerely. And thanks to all active service men/women, and veterans we are safe and free. Free to post on this blog and do anything we want within the laws of the USA. I sincerely appreciate that freedom. Not nearly enough respect is given to current and former service-people for their part in keeping us safe & free. We live in the greatest country in the world, and we owe a great deal to our past & present military. They are always in my thoughts and prayers.
I went to the web sites you linked to. I am open minded and love to learn. I've been wrong before, and have been persuaded to see things differently. I try to look at all sides. I found the pie chart "The Government Deception" on “War Resisters League” web site interesting. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about it. Agree or disagree?
Would it be wrong to view the US Budget as every dollar they collect for any purpose? Congress controls it all, they make the budget.
If we narrowly look at the Federal Government as the “War Resisters League” site suggests, excluding all the social programs etc., why do we need the Federal Government for more than Defense and Judicial? And, shouldn't defense be a big part of our budget because of it's importance?
I respectfully disagree with your statement that the Bush tax cuts had a negative effect. Tax cuts in general should always have a positive effect. I am in the lower income brackets, and my paycheck has been reduced because of cut backs the past 2-3 years. I work 2 jobs along with side work to make ends meet. I still feel pick-pocketed every time I look at the taxes withheld from my pay. Add up your tax burden sometime. Payroll taxes out of your paycheck, property tax, sales tax, gasoline (42 cents a gallon last I heard), taxes buried in the cost of everything you purchase, etc. It might surprise everyone how much they contribute to Fed, State and Local Uncle Sams. In my humble opinion, we ALL are over taxed.
November 21, 2010 at 9:18 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Burning up over tanning tax
Springman, you stated "Most of our tax dollars go to the military. All the other stuff amounts to peanuts ......". Are you kidding me? Where did you get these figures? Our military budget is a large piece of the pie, but according to Government web site Medicare isn't far behind the TOTAL Defense Budget. Add Social Security and Medicare together and the total Defense Budget isn't even close. Then add all the other social programs, and other parts of the budget and to say the Military budget is "Most of our tax dollars" is just simply not true. Care to site your sources of information?
You want growth? Solution: Cut taxes, control spending. Smaller government. Problem with this solution-difficult to get our government to do it.
November 20, 2010 at 12:05 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Three teens arrested in Warren bat beating case
Stan ... your kidding, right? "Intolerance of mainstream society"? Being intolerant of this act is nothing more than "having fun". If this is considered having fun, and we are intolerant of this, then society needs to be bring this culture up to speed and be taught proper morals.
I hope you were being sarcastic and I misunderstood. I hope I misunderstood your post.
July 27, 2010 at 8:19 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Provisions added to Ohio’s nuisance bill
You're kidding me. We're fighting for jobs, and our State Senators are debating official state amphibians?
June 8, 2010 at 3:21 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Warren cop: I thought boys were suspects
On the one hand: 1) I live several blocks away, and our home was broken into in February in the middle of the day and ransacked. Many of our treasured memories and possessions were stolen. Many that cannot be replaced. It is a devastating event. We were told others in the area have been hit. Could be police are patrolling more as a result. 2) I don't know the answer to this, maybe someone else does, but are there sidewalks in this area? Not that this is a big issue, but since we've been robbed, I'd now be suspicious of anyone going through the back yards of my neighborhood. 3) And heaven forbid if I came home with mud on my shoes when I was young.
On the other hand: 1) It seems very odd these young children were targeted. No doubt at least a little racial profiling was used. This is hard to excuse. 2) I would think the police officer could have dealt with this better. This sounds very excessive to me. These kids were awful young to be pulling a gun on them.
April 10, 2010 at 3:05 p.m. permalink suggest removal