I also must say that at no time in the last 29 years have I ever been the least bit uncomfortable around Pastor Dale, or felt uncomfortable with him being around my kids. And I'm with REMK- going "behind closed doors" with P.D. was not part of my confirmation either. And if everyone was so aware and involved when these alleged inappropriate things were going on why did no one say anything to anyone?
I am simply defending his right to be considered innocent until proven guilty by the court. I am not bad-mouthing the accuser, whoever she is, I am not saying she is lying. I am saying it is hard to believe, based on my own personal relationship and on the ridiculously small amount of information given.
Jeff, you have not been respectful of my views in the least, in fact, in the one post that I agreed with your point you decided to attack my spelling. I'd hate to see what you consider disrespect. crazy8, I was not being nasty, I was asking a question. How do these specific details of the situation affect you? You say you believe justice will prevail, but justice has already taken quite a hit today. If you CARE so much why are you saying nasty things about the pastor from which your religious beliefs stemmed from instead of calling some of the friends and family members you CARE so much about and asking them? It seems like you are trolling for dirt rather than CARING. Just my opinion.
If you know so much about Zion and are so concerned with the details, why weren't you at the congregational meeting we had with the bishop where all these questions were initially answered? And if you are no longer involved at all with the church than what do you care now??
There are so many pieces missing and/or totally off in this case. Like why go straight to the bishop? It doesn't make sense. And, crazy8, the paper also stated retreats, which, as you even stated, involved more chapperones than Pastor Dale. It's little inaccuracies and illogicalities like that that are making this story hard to swallow. And Jeff, isn't there another article conversation that has nothing to do with you that you could be butting in on?
I must side with REMK on this one. If so many people "knew" or "witnessed" what was going on, why on EARTH did NO ONE say ANYTHING!! And what does Pastor Mark have to do with any of this? Are you saying he knew what was going on and he just left the congregation to fend for ourselves? Seriously?!?!
Jeff Maybe I do not understand the forum. I didn't realize that what people use these to do is ridicule the experiences and comments of others and go on rampant spelling checks because they have nothing better to do. I did NOT ask people to refrain from sharing their opinions, I simply stated that this congregation, which includes both pastor and accuser, has been through a great deal, and merely suggested that "unsensitive, uninformed, and/or ridiculous political comments" be "kept to a minimum." The definition of the word "victim" is "a person who is adversely affected by a situation." As far as the parishioners not being victims, it seems to me you may not understand the relationship between a person and his or her pastor. A pastor speaks the word of God; he or she explains the parts of the Bible that are confusing; they teach, inspire, and excite; they baptize our children, officiate our weddings, and give last rights to our dying relatives. Pastors are our living, breathing connections to God. How are the parishioners not the victim's as well? Regardless of the verdict and outcome of this case, we have been affected. In his resignation speech Pastor Dale asked the congregation to not let this shake our faith, to trust in God and the church, and to continue in our spiritual journey at Zion. Those were not the words of a power hungry, controlling person. Those were the words of a man who did not want the faith of his congregation destroyed by the allegations and their repercussions. He removed himself from his position to avoid making the congregation feel like they had to choose who to believe. I only hope the truth, whatever it may be, eventually surfaces. I pray for everyone involved.
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
I also must say that at no time in the last 29 years have I ever been the least bit uncomfortable around Pastor Dale, or felt uncomfortable with him being around my kids. And I'm with REMK- going "behind closed doors" with P.D. was not part of my confirmation either. And if everyone was so aware and involved when these alleged inappropriate things were going on why did no one say anything to anyone?
February 20, 2009 at 8:50 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
Jeff- thank you. I must admit, I have a great vocab, but am a terrible speller (:
February 20, 2009 at 8:43 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
I am simply defending his right to be considered innocent until proven guilty by the court. I am not bad-mouthing the accuser, whoever she is, I am not saying she is lying. I am saying it is hard to believe, based on my own personal relationship and on the ridiculously small amount of information given.
February 20, 2009 at 8:40 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
My apologies on misreading. You are correct- the article does NOT say retreats.
February 20, 2009 at 8:30 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
Jeff, you have not been respectful of my views in the least, in fact, in the one post that I agreed with your point you decided to attack my spelling. I'd hate to see what you consider disrespect.
crazy8, I was not being nasty, I was asking a question. How do these specific details of the situation affect you? You say you believe justice will prevail, but justice has already taken quite a hit today. If you CARE so much why are you saying nasty things about the pastor from which your religious beliefs stemmed from instead of calling some of the friends and family members you CARE so much about and asking them? It seems like you are trolling for dirt rather than CARING. Just my opinion.
February 20, 2009 at 8:19 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
If you know so much about Zion and are so concerned with the details, why weren't you at the congregational meeting we had with the bishop where all these questions were initially answered? And if you are no longer involved at all with the church than what do you care now??
February 20, 2009 at 7:59 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
There are so many pieces missing and/or totally off in this case. Like why go straight to the bishop? It doesn't make sense. And, crazy8, the paper also stated retreats, which, as you even stated, involved more chapperones than Pastor Dale. It's little inaccuracies and illogicalities like that that are making this story hard to swallow.
And Jeff, isn't there another article conversation that has nothing to do with you that you could be butting in on?
February 20, 2009 at 7:56 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
Absolutely! We were NEVER supervised solely by Pastor Dale.
Still waiting on an answer to why Pastor Mark is being brought up...
February 20, 2009 at 7:28 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
I must side with REMK on this one. If so many people "knew" or "witnessed" what was going on, why on EARTH did NO ONE say ANYTHING!!
And what does Pastor Mark have to do with any of this? Are you saying he knew what was going on and he just left the congregation to fend for ourselves? Seriously?!?!
February 20, 2009 at 6:58 p.m. permalink suggest removal
Former pastor Giffin faces 6 rape charges
Jeff
Maybe I do not understand the forum. I didn't realize that what people use these to do is ridicule the experiences and comments of others and go on rampant spelling checks because they have nothing better to do.
I did NOT ask people to refrain from sharing their opinions, I simply stated that this congregation, which includes both pastor and accuser, has been through a great deal, and merely suggested that "unsensitive, uninformed, and/or ridiculous political comments" be "kept to a minimum."
The definition of the word "victim" is "a person who is adversely affected by a situation." As far as the parishioners not being victims, it seems to me you may not understand the relationship between a person and his or her pastor. A pastor speaks the word of God; he or she explains the parts of the Bible that are confusing; they teach, inspire, and excite; they baptize our children, officiate our weddings, and give last rights to our dying relatives. Pastors are our living, breathing connections to God. How are the parishioners not the victim's as well? Regardless of the verdict and outcome of this case, we have been affected.
In his resignation speech Pastor Dale asked the congregation to not let this shake our faith, to trust in God and the church, and to continue in our spiritual journey at Zion. Those were not the words of a power hungry, controlling person. Those were the words of a man who did not want the faith of his congregation destroyed by the allegations and their repercussions. He removed himself from his position to avoid making the congregation feel like they had to choose who to believe.
I only hope the truth, whatever it may be, eventually surfaces. I pray for everyone involved.
February 20, 2009 at 4:51 p.m. permalink suggest removal