one more thing, I have to correct myself, the CATO institute isn't necessarily a racist organization..so I apologize for me alluding to such, but they are no doubt conservative Liberatarian types, and they do have some skewed data.
I have studied them concerning this "global warming" debate, and somewhat side with them on that issue..SOMEWHAT...
but their "data" on welfare and such is kinda fishy, and is based on nothing empirical..
I've read a lot of reports from Patrick Michaels from CATO institute about climate issues.
November 30, 2010 at 8:16 p.m.
btw, here's the horses mouth:http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy1...
so you won't go to some one-sided, conservatively leaning or liberally leaning or whatever the heck biased "data-source"
if you know how to research, you should arrive at the correct conclusion, and see if you still continue with that false notion that "ALL OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS" are going to welfare and to support bums and no good fatherless scum...
also, while you're at it, maybe you can help Stan to produce those arrest records of the southside that prove that the suspects or targets of the crimes that were posted by the members of the forum were on welfare and SSI, or whatever the heck way he put it...
show me the proof.
November 30, 2010 at 7:58 p.m.
also, check some real facts (perhaps through the freedom of information act) on what percentage of the national budget is actually spent on welfare...get back to me with those numbers
November 30, 2010 at 7:48 p.m.
those web sites are opinion based, nothing empirical at all...
you've done no research...
ride with cops?? please, I grew up and LIVE on the Northside of town very near to ST.E's...I have bullet holes in my freaking house, I've had to hit the basement because the floor wasn't enough refuge during the shootings, I lost a 16 year old nephew, cousinS <--- as young as 15 yrs old, and close close friends to the streets...nearly every year one or more is lost, so I speak from the trenches...where do you live?
Not only here, but I travel the United States through my job, and I don't just tuck away in the booshy hotel suites, I get out when my work is done and travel to where the real people are, where you don't see on the travel brochures..
CATO institute? that conservative babbel? I dont subscribe to the democrats either, before you go there, because BOTH parties are controlled by the meglomaniacal plutocrats pitting both liberals and conservatives against eachother to fight over scraps while they get richer and richer...but please, don't come at me with so called "proof" from some one-sided racist "think-tank" such as the CATO institute...
That's like a Christian trying to prove Christianity WITH THE BIBLE, or a Muslim trying to prove Islam WITH THE QU'RAN...
I don't wanna argue, I want yall to recognize that you're fighting the wrong fight! Just like I run into the Blacks who think it's a total war by the "White man" against the "Black man", it is a pointless and moot debacle that gets nowhere, when in fact the plutocracy, and the world powers are pitting us all against eachother, when in essence we're all in the same "class"...whether you work 100 hours a week just to pay your mortgage and insurance premiums, and car note (i.e. your DEBT), or if you're some lazy bum who ABuses welfare or whatever or sells dope in the streets (which many people sell dope to AVOID welfare, but know that if they work a regular job they won't be able to shake the need of welfare)..we're all in the same class struggle..
We all need eachother, and you're falling right into their plutocratic hands by clawing and casting blame on those sucking up YOUR "tax dollars" when you make no mention of the real people taking your tax dollars, the International banking cartels that actually drive this country into debt, getting repaid by your TAX DOLLARS.
check some works from Bill Moyers, for starters.
November 30, 2010 at 7:43 p.m.
and Stan, I challenge you to show me an arrest record that demonstrates that the southside is a "prime example" that tax payer dollars help them to " continue to steal and support their recreational drug and alcohol habits"..really I don't even know how to frame my challenge because your statement has no real line of logically-based reasoning...the only thing an arrest record can show is what a person is CHARGED WITH (noticed I didn't say what they're guilty of, but CHARGED WITH..that's the only thing an arrest record can show, nothing more)
btw, what a sampling of the Mahoning County Jail inmate count can show is that the Mahoning County Jail is also filled with plenty of inmates from Austintown, Poland, Canfield, Boardman, COitsville, and more..
What you say is similar to what the people say about all Muslims being terrorists, therefore all Arabs are terrorists. When in fact all Arabs aren't even Muslims, so logically (based on that erroneous type of stereotyping) all Arabs can't be terrorists.
Are you familiar with a Venn Diagram tool of logic? It would behoove you to learn to use it, as your reasoning would highly benefit from it...
yours truly,-a former "welfare" kid
November 29, 2010 at 1:11 a.m.
I'm not defending the system of welfare, I'm just saying that every time a crime is committed, that welfare and such is NOT to blame..when the real truth - and I don't know how I'm going to hammer this point home - is that we do not know what the socio-economic status of these people are when we read about them...there's just no way at all, unless you know them personally...and to act as if you do it only demonstrates that you have no real critical thinking skills, and that you don't look at things intelligently...and your opinion or input is not to be valued when addressing anything.
If you have a problem with welfare or any public assistance then address it intelligently and not making everything an opportunity to attack welfare (which I would ask how many of u IF you even went to college received a Federal Pell Grant? - a form of public assistance)
Also, lol, this may come as a real shock to some, but NOT EVERYONE IN YOUNGSTOWN, WARREN, or INNER-CITY CRIME RIDDEN NEIGHBORHOODS IS ON WELFARE.
and that reference with the link to the shooting this mornging or whenever, proves nothing about welfare, only about an issue of violence.
Now if you really are inclined to any kind of economic and sociology studies, you'd know that the basic cause of crime is poverty, so if there was no welfare system in place to at least provide some basic needs to those who are (whether through laziness, or just through no real fault of their own) befallen to economic hardships, then the crime rate would be substantially higher, and not because of some lack of home training or what have you...but out of necessity.
If there was a nuclear war or some other apocalyptic event where infrastructure (society as we know it) was toppled, and there was no way to work for your "daily bread" then we'd have bands of people running around pillaging and plundering in Mad Max fashion...it would be an animalistic society so to speak. Would that be because people are immoral, or because they're needing to survive?
That's NOT the society we live in, but it would be an inch, a foot, or a yard closer IF it weren't for programs such as welfare and section 8, etc...
A few of my relatives live in a suburban city, and my young cousins are constantly in trouble or participants in undesirable behavior (to put it lightly), their mother makes a substantial income and receives no welfare and pays a mortgage..so is welfare to blame there?
What I CAN agree with is the questioning of their parenting...and it goes even past the parenting unto the entertainment and what we value as a society: MTV, BET, all these reality shows that teach and glamorize strife, contention, and selfishness ("today on Said Reality Show XYZ, tempers flaaaaare as...blah blah blah")..don't get me started on the Rap music, and other popular music...
So we DO have to look at and question the parenting and also the messages that our youth get from the entertainment industry...but not blame welfare.
November 29, 2010 at 12:56 a.m.
those things you quoted weren't excuses, Life...I was pointing out the conditions which are more than likely to create the problems that we're facing with these kids.
and the president reference is a deeper look at the real cause of our tax dollars going up and up...compare welfare spending with military spending, or those bank bailouts. welfare account for not even 10% of our govt spending, but look at the military, and the bank bailouts..if you wanna get mad about hand-outs.
and yes, lies are told in school, may not have much to do with the problem of this story we're posting on, but yes the history and contexts of what's taught are twisted (quick example: taught that civil war was fought to free slaves when it in fact was not, just ONE example)..
and I'm not commenting on the article as much as the comments and blind assumptions made here to the people in it..and the attitudes and ignorance that the comments exemplify.
I'm not ok with what those kids did, but I feel there's a better way to clean up our society and it's ills than to just make judgments and blind assumptions about immaterial things, and EVERY TIME theres a story about crime, the comments are abundantly about welfare and section 8, I bet if you look at these posts and if you had a dollar for every time one alludes to welfare when it is about a shooting or crime, you could possibly get someone off of welfare with the money you'd accumulate..
we don't ever seem to see what the real sources of our troubles are, and really, if you're a thinking person, even with a small semblance of critical thought, you could read the comments up there and see the ignorance and outright stupidity of blaming, and furthermore assuming that these kids are on welfare or section 8 or no dad. after all we dont even know their names, for all we know they could be some kids that strolled up from Boardman to do these crimes..FOR ALL WE KNOW.
my main beef and reason for comment is to point that out, no defense for what they did...if you can't deduce that from what I wrote then you're not possessing good comprehension skills.
November 28, 2010 at 4:02 a.m.
not everyone on welfare is just some lazy scum who is living off of the system...some (many in fact) use it if they need it as a stepping stone to not starve and die for lack of medical attention otherwise, until they are able to get on their feet and be self-sufficient...
and many use a section 8 voucher to take their kids out of the environment that is really tough and into one that is relatively safer so that they can concentrate on raising their kids without having to hit the floor from guns blazing, or worrying about them becoming a product of their environment.
Like I said, my mother was on welfare and still worked odd jobs (it just wasn't enough) yet and still she raised me and my siblings to go to school, and even learn outside of school and learn to think for ourselves, not in some programmed way that society batters into your head via lies school teaches, and the garbage that fills the TV...so you can't blame welfare for anything like that..
Does not folly and nonsense happen in Boardman and Canfield, Austintown, etc?
In college the biggest coke sniffers, exctacy poppers and heroine users were White suburban kids...
you don't even realize what the biggest cause of your "tax dollars" being sucked up is..if I were to assume you only "learn" from what CNN, or FOX news, or this Vindy (or some other corporate media outlet) tells your to believe, I'd be wrong wouldn't I? or would I be right?
By us blaming and condemning everyone who's basically in the same social class, and being further divided, our attention is off of the real issues and facts we need to address and become privy to on a world scale...
this president (and past presidential administrations) continues to give away billions (trillions maybe?) to international bankers, so where do you think that money is coming from? our taxes...(and I'm crudely stating this issue)
November 28, 2010 at 12:44 a.m.
also, you may notice that I made no excuse for any of this, and barely referenced them...I simply criticized the fact that we have NO idea who these kids are, and who their parents are, and yet you just assume that they are kids of people who are on welfare, and that the father isn't present.
that demonstrates YOUR ignorance..it really does. and it furthermore solves nothing.
And you PRAY to your god that they burn in hell? I'm wondering if you're Christian and if so that is totally against the doctrine. 1. - you're passing judgement ("judge not lest ye may be judged")..and 2. - shouldnt you be praying for their SALVATION and change of lifestyle and choices?
your ignorance and hypocrisy is unbelievable.
November 28, 2010 at 12:12 a.m.
nah, my degrees (yes PLURAL) are from Youngstown State..
1 - Psychology/Philosophy (yeah, a DOUBLE major) WITH a minor in Religious Studies
2- Computer Information Systems
like I said, 1.- you assume, and 2 -you don't comb the information
instead you just RUSH to disagree and make a post out of your pitiful emotionally driven fervor.
November 28, 2010 at 12:05 a.m.