From the article: > "Senate Bill 280, which would require case-management services for postpartum care be included in Medicaid managed care. " <
Why would anyone who cannot pay for their own medical care (and who needs public assistance in this regard from Medicaid) be involved in creating a baby???!!!
This is the height of absurd arrogant ignorant irresponsibility. No one receiving Medicaid, or ANY other form of public assistance, should EVER be involved in making babies.
The FIRST thing that needs to happen is that people who are not capable and prepared to care for children must STOP making babies.
August 22, 2014 at 7:23 p.m.
AG Holder is in Ferguson to ensure that the "investigation" reaches the pre-determined conclusions that AG Holder wants.
August 20, 2014 at 9:24 a.m.
I understand your position and I think that, even if we disagree on specifics, we are more alike than not.
I guess I agree with you that our perspectives differ by which side of the slippery slope we each think we are on. From my perspective I think we are sliding down the slope of way too much government power and control. Yes, it would be nice if everyone just got along, but that is not likely and, in my opinion, government intervention will muck things up, not make it better. Yes, due to the laws of the 60’s anyone can get service anywhere regardless of race…………..but government force has not exactly given us racial harmony, has it? Could things have been better if the social growth had been more organic, with less governmental intrusion?
You indicate that you can understand if a pastor would refuse to perform the wedding ceremony but, in my opinion, you are supporting precedent that could be used to lead to laws forcing a pastor to perform the ceremony. The pastor is “providing a service to the public”, so if we’re going to have such laws, why would they not pertain to pastoral services as well? Who is to decide??
Again with regard to Jews or inter-racial couples, the argument comes back to what people ARE vs. what people DO. Yes, it would be wrong to deny people service because they ARE Jews. However, should it be ILLEGAL for the Muslim caterer to decline to assist the Jewish congregation of the local synagogue with food service for their public seminar about the Israeli perspective on the current situation in Gaza?
You indicate that these people are way too involved in the details of their customer’s lives but, from my perspective (again), they are asking to not be involved in their customer’s personal lives at all; and you are arguing for enacting laws that force them to be involved against their will.
My perspective is that I do not trust government with power, that all government and laws should be very tightly restricted, controlled, and minimized, and that this is a step too far.
August 13, 2014 at 10:30 p.m.
@dontbeafool: See, I told you it would be a long answer.
The two hypothetical cases I proposed earlier are simply extreme examples of the unintended consequences that could be associated with the line of thinking that allows laws forcing business owners to offer service to “all”, with no right to refuse. What other, less extreme, examples of unintended consequences might crop up? If we start forcing some people to do what they do not want to do, where will we draw the line? Who will draw the line??
I cannot violate your rights by refusing to assist you in doing something……not preventing you from doing it, but simply exercising my right to refuse to help. Not taking affirmative action to assist you cannot possibly be a violation of your rights. On the other hand, forcing me against my will to assist you, forcing me to participate in an activity or action that I do not want to support, is very definitely a direct violation of my rights. If the government can force these business owners to take action to actively support a homosexual wedding ceremony against their will today, what might the government try to force me to do against my will tomorrow?
August 13, 2014 at 8:43 p.m.
The question about a black man being denied service in a coffee shop is an off-topic straw man, designed to require an extended answer. The inquiry is put forward with the hope that I will not take the time to respond, or with the hope that whatever response I make can be used to paint me as some sort of bigot. However, since you have asked me specifically & repeatedly, and since I have no reason to mistrust YOU specifically; I will endeavor to answer.
The case of refusal of service for reasons of race, gender, or ethnicity is distinctly different than the case of the bridal shop in question here (see more below).
First, however, let me acknowledge that I have reservations regarding any laws that tell us what we MUST DO, as opposed to laws that tell us what we CANNOT DO. I am very much OK with laws that tell us we cannot act to prevent someone else from doing something they have a right to do. I am not at all OK with laws that tell us we must take action to assist (offer service to) other people to help them do something, even if we do not want to assist or participate. The civil rights laws dictating that business owners must offer service regardless of race, gender, and ethnicity were obviously necessary in the 1960’s. I am not against them, but It is not so clear how much they are still needed today; and they have definitely taken us one step down a slippery slope, allowing the government to dictate what actions we must take…….leading us to the discussion we are having right now, which is yet another huge step further down that slippery slope.
Why is refusal of service based on race, gender, and ethnicity different than the case of the bridal shop at hand? Because race, gender, and ethnicity are things that people ARE; which is an entirely different matter than what people DO or WILL DO (actions they will take).The lesbian brides in the case at hand are not being refused service for what they ARE. The owners of the bridal shop are refusing service because they do not want to participate-with and facilitate the actions that the brides are planning to DO; the owners do not want to take affirmative action to participate and assist with a homosexual wedding. The bridal shop owners are not trying to prevent the brides from conducting the wedding, the owners are refusing to take action to assist.
I understand it is your opinion that the bridal shop owners’ opinion is wrong, and that they should not be offended by the concept of a homosexual wedding; but do we really want to create laws to force them to comply with your opinion? Who is to decide whose opinion is right, and whose opinion is wrong? Who is to be the “divine arbiter” telling us what we are allowed to think and what actions we must take? Me? You? The Government??
August 13, 2014 at 8:40 p.m.
Did it occur to you that I have other things to do, have a job, and don’t necessarily check back hourly to see your latest words of wisdom?
Apparently it does not occur to you that trying to “help” gay people “convert” is exactly something the FRC might do.
As another alternative, did it occur to you that the FRC might try to contract the services of a printing company without knowing the sexual persuasion of the owners…….just like the lesbian brides in this case probably did not know the religious persuasion of the owners of the bridal shop when they first called?
Likewise, did it occur to you that the KKK might not realize that the catering company they are trying to contract is owned by African-Americans?
The point is there are any number of scenarios that make the hypothetical cases I have proposed valid, and the bigger point is that there are any number of other examples that could demonstrate how the unintended consequences of allowing the government to force people to act create a very dangerous road to go down. This is the point that apparently eludes you, as you propose and support legislation that is specifically going to target one specific group for protection, and target another specific group for restriction of their choices. Who gets to decide what group(s) are to be protected, and what group(s) are the next to be restricted and controlled? You??
I cannot violate your rights by refusing to assist you in doing something……not preventing you from doing it, but simply exercising my right to refuse to help. Not taking affirmative action to assist you cannot possibly be a violation of your rights. On the other hand, forcing me against my will to assist you, forcing me to participate in an activity or action that I do not want to support, is very definitely a direct violation of my rights.
You have done nothing to pick apart any arguments; you have done nothing except hurl insults and attempt play the race card.
I am now done with you. Feel free to take the last word.
August 11, 2014 at 11:41 p.m.
So, from this point forward Iajoci will be the divine arbiter of whose beliefs are worthy of consideration for freedom, and whose beliefs are hostile and unworthy of consideration for freedom.
We will all look to Iajoci for guidance as to who is allowed to think what, and who needs to be punished and driven away for not meeting the appropriate standards for their beliefs.
Did it not occur to you that the KKK might think it pretty funny to be able to force an African-American caterer to serve them.
Did it not occur to you that the FRC might seek out a gay owned printing company for the purpose of "helping" them to "see the light"?
Did it also not occur to you that the hypothetical cases were not intended as "parallels"; but simply as alternative scenarios that legislation restricting the choice to deny service would allow.
August 9, 2014 at 11:48 p.m.
Suppose the Ku Klux Klan comes to town to hold a rally, and needs a catering service to provide dinner for the participants. Should an African-American owned and operated catering business be required to provide this service to the Ku Klux Klan, with no choice, because they are a business “open to the general public”? Should they be forced to provide their employees to serve at the table of the Ku Klux Klan; or should they be allowed the choice to decline to serve the Ku Klux Klan?
I would say they should have the right to decline.
Suppose the Family Research Council (FRC) is holding a seminar on psychological therapies for “curing” people of homosexuality, and they need a printing service to print the programs and brochures for their event. Should a graphic arts company owned and operated by a gay couple be required to provide this service to the FRC, with no choice, because they are a business “open to the general public”? Should they be forced to print this “educational” material for the FRC; or should they be allowed the choice to decline to serve the FRC?
Discussion of proposing legislation to disallow freedom of choice for certain people who operate businesses, because their choices do not comport with conventionally accepted political correctness, is the most odious thing going on here.
August 9, 2014 at 6:34 p.m.
Attis - To validate your characterization of Gaza as a "death camp", please name the prior death camp whose occupants fired thousands of rockets at their captors' civilian population centers
July 29, 2014 at 1:04 p.m.
Abolish all laws. With no laws to break, there can be no crimes. Crime rate goes to zero.....problem solved.
July 22, 2014 at 7:33 p.m.