Maybe - but I always ask myself this question: If those who pontificate on the morals of the poor had themselves been brought up on one of the hard streets of say Youngstowns South Side - how would they have turned out ?
I think there are a range of possibilities , no matter what neighborhood you are brought up in , but the weaker members of the strong neighborhoods are well protected .
So let's not be too sanctimonious .
I didn't vote.
Nationally, crime rates are dropping. As usual, Y-town is behind the curve.
Peer pressure and media exploitation of the gangsta culture also has a lot to do with it. Most kids rebel against parental authority. Most people my age listened to rock and roll precisely because our parents didn't want us to do so. We express our generational culture by syntax and even by our posture and facial expressions. Same goes for the clothes, the hair styles, etc. Despite genetics, most of us are more like our peers than our partents.
So far, nobody has discussed how it is that perps get guns, which seem to be the yo-yo's, hooola hoops and frisbees of the gangsta era. Does Y-town have more or less of them than the national average? Have the victims been killed with registered hand guns? By Saturday night specials? Is the ammo traceable?
The articles also do not say whether or not the accused have track records. If so, maybe the justice system, which is the university of choice for a lot of criminals, had something to do with it.
I would say both, but if I had to pick just one, it would be the parents.
The results of this poll only show how little people are willing to except personal responsibility. Sickening. If Parents can't instill values and responsibility in there own children and they expect society to do it for them......we are truly doomed.
Criminal conduct has become an accepted lifestyle . The rights of criminals reign supreme and their victims rights are trampled upon . It is a sad day when criminals get an elevated status in society . LETS PENALIZE CRIMINALS WITH FAR MORE THAN JUST PROBATION .
The lopsided tally citing " City Leadership " is accurate,..
Where although it'd be inaccurate, unfair and stupid not to cite both as culpable. But one are the orchestrators and the other pitted here are merely the conformists.
See what's happened here is a volatile combination of the criminality and incompetence orchestrated by alleged " City Leaders " has subscribed to preying upon the entire populous.
Sure you can point the finger at parents, the youth and even some adults that's faltered to contributing to society killing criminality.
But no way in hell can anybody with any sense and understanding not detect how corrupt the alleged " Officials " in Youngstown are.
Thus as a result you merely see the effects of the kingpins works playing out by partakers all throughout the city.
That current tally of 72% of those partaking in the polling displaying their understanding and recognition that Youngstown's problems is the result of mass criminality isn't just profound and overwhelming.
But it's also indisputably accurate and a damn shame. That 72% tally of those whom recognize there's nothing less than a pack of worthless no good criminals perched as public enemies.
Duly reflects and presents electoral landslide numbers. For which indicates a resounding agreement and understanding. That the people realize they're going to have to get to work on taking action against.
In reflective contrast comparison no doubt the only ones polling to make up that minuscule 27% as alleging it's the parents of childrens fault. Are no doubt those whom are fleecing the populous being perched as " City leaders " and their dependents.
That's not opinion because those 72% to 27% numbers show and prove that. There's criminality reigning from everywhere from the courts, the commissioners, to city counsel and city works.
Where I'm surprised Vindy would host such a polling. You can rest assure if more voted that the current 72% tally identifying city " Leadership " as the problem.
Would unquestionably grow to even more accurately reflect somewhere a mass understanding. That would project somewhere in the high 80's to low 90's reflecting they realize where the cities problems are orchestrated.
najjjj I'll not call you a foolish shill because we disagree,.. nope.
I'll allow your own inaccurate and idiotic allegation to stand on it's own lack of merit before the populous.
When you get a tally that lopsided there's no question that the people are no longer fooled. It's not singular opinion or any mass abandonment of parental responsibility,.. like you alleged.
If such were the case that would mean at least 1/3 of those in the current 72% would be seeking immunity for willfully raising criminal kids and partaking in criminality themselves.
But see your problem then would be trying to present a single individual working downtown Youngstown. That you or anybody like you could present as a affable deterrent to crime,.. and YOU CAN'T !!!
See that current 27% that represent your position reflects a number. That's slightly higher than would be commensurate with those orchestrating mayhem at personal profit taxpayers expense,.. care to refute that?
To wit your stance would be that a minimum of 1000 people that would comprise a 1/3 portion of the current 3005 in the 72%. Would be irresponsible criminality embracing parents that criminal records don't project,.. try debunking that.
So see you're not just derisively wrong here and again. But you've actually been a wrong angled loon for a long, long, long time there " na, na, na, najjjjjj ",.. and you've not changed.
"I think it was Traficant who said....."
Please consider the source. If he's a role model, then all is lost.
According to the statistics, innovations such as street patrols, crime cameras, infiltration of gangs, and a reduction of guns have helped cities like NY, DC, and a number of others. They have not eliminated the problem, but they cerrtainly have reduced rates of crime.
Both are to blame. Parents for not being responsible and city leaders for being soft on crime. Also, too many government handouts that make it easy on the lazy people of our society.
Both to blame,.. yes.
Although see where both play a part, the scale of culpable imbalance lays and rests upon the orchestrators.
See those kids nor are their parents coordinating shipments of assault weapons and drugs into the area. Nor are those kids or parents the heads of the criminal operations that plague the area.
Lastly those whom falter to distributing are the least profiting and damn sure don't dictate select apprehension or flop and fix cases of prosecution downtown either.
See beyond introducing an individual to a life of crime. For it to have any longevity the escorting, masterminding and promotion table has to be set for it downtown.
So see not only is that irrefutable and we unquestionably see it happening. It's so profound and pathetic that no sensible person can miss it.
So for anyone to try to ignore that to allege or contend the youth or bad parenting is what kills Youngstown isn't just inaccurate,.. but it's so misguided it's insane.
First off Traficant is no different than any other criminal. Where the script reads he lost his way because he's criminal and allowed his gullible greed to consume him.
Also we absolutely disagree about city " officials " too. See because fact is light sentencing and probation for criminality are discretionary.
Which irony is felonious violations like drug distribution, prohibited weapon possession and murder gives leverage to sentence such said violators to the max.
However, not all such violators don't get that max incarceration treatment in Youngstown. Reason being is those peddlers are peddling for the organized criminals perched as officials.
The city bears a cost for county incarcerations. But to sentence such violators to penitentiary time isn't a local budget issue.
Hell, time and time again we've seen distinct instances of corruption. Where aside from Cafaro having more private ownership over more commissioners than the citizens that pay their day job salaries.
The records present the murderous hit and run guy. Who hit and drug his victim and fled from a McDonalds drive thru. Then in his post drunk massacre he went before the courts. Which is where he got something like 2 or 3 years from a judge? In a plea deal from a prosecutor?,.. it'd be hilarious if it weren't TRUE !!!
Then there's the drug guys that shot the guy in the back of the head in a house somewhere on the north side. Then after they were caught some " judge " gave them 5 years on something like self defense manslaughter,.. Ask that mother or his kid who's behind crime in Youngstown.
See now we're in the midst of a murder suspect fugitive. Who by history is a multiple repeat offender that various Youngstown judges flopped his charges.
Where now via eventuality a family named the Repchic's paid a life sentence for it and the entire community lives in outrage and horror,.. a bad dad or misguided mom didn't do all that.
The question, "who is responsible for violence"?
The answer is, criminals.
The real question is what do you do with criminals? Everyone has choices no matter where you are from. People that are criminals choose that path in life.
The real problem is the judicial system and the multiple "second chances" given to criminals. If you look at the prior criminal records of violent criminals you will find in most cases that they have a record as long as your arm.
The problem is the plea bargaining system where a criminal commits a crime that would have a twenty year sentence and it's plea bargained down to a ten year sentence and they serve only half of that. So in five years they are back on the streets committing more crime when in reality the should still be locked up.
The excuse that the courts are backed up and that's why prosecutors plea bargain is lame. the courts are backed up because the same criminals keep being let out of jail and keep committing crimes.
The answer is is to prosecute people for the crime they commit and keep them locked up in as many jails as we need to build. In the long run it will be cheaper and the rest of us will all be safer.
See there's loads more of similar and worst downtown Youngstown case log that can be reflected upon here. That beyond opinion or speculation irrefutably proves that Maureen Cronin wasn't the only criminal mole on the bench down there,.. No way in Hell.
Nor can a blind eye be cast at whats alleged to be the prosecutors office. That by it's own record is widely hailed as a damn disgrace and a criminal joke,.. bad parenting doesn't do that.
See those realities are even beyond the corrupt commissioners and a city council that presides over defending and upholding hiring practices that predates Jim Crow,.. even the Black ones.
So to make it an unblemished and non bias implication of impartiality. In total sum they've got the racial and gender diverse worst and worthless smattering.
Of the most despicable body of bankrolling riff raff laden underlings since the days of Ray T. Davis, Phil Chance, Jim Philomena, Jim Trafficant, Polly the Frog and that ruthless crowd,.. it's just the names have changed but the corruption game has stayed the same.
Which neither the local clergy, parents or citizens. Can be faulted for anything aside from either faltering to acceptance, or not leaving the area. Or not seeing a worth to try to take the area back,.. from city official CRIMINALS !!!
6500 + votes Right
People are always responsible for crime...not police. Police are reactionary, that is, they go to the crime scene to stop the crime or to investigate it. We need to accept that fact and not expect our Police to prevent crime. Crime Prevention starts at home and with that it is a social isssue as in how we raise our children.
All of our children start off in life as perfect angels and little darlings. What happens to them in their 18 years of growth is what is disturbng and the real crime in America today.
Parents have a reasonable to raise the children to be product member of society. But that must be hard when you have never been one. How does take you child to work happen in Youngstown schools. I can still remember my dad showing me his job and love of computers and electronics at work.
The people who are to blame for the violence are those who perpetrate the violence. Yes, the lack of parental involvement and the failure to instill moral values and some sort of work ethic contribute to the development of criminality. Yes, not sentencing people who have repeatedly committed crimes to the maximum sentences and making them stay in prison contributes to the violence. But, when it all comes down to it, the criminals are ultimately responsible for what they do and it is they who should be held accountable.
Just as I planned and suspected,..
Since the damning statements of accurate and overwhelming recognition. Of polling participants initially citing the more culpable causes and orchestration of the criminality epidemic in Youngstown as criminal conduits as " city leaders ".
Now the indefensible guilty has stepped their " whitewash " game up. In such a hell of a way that they're now despicably flooding this pooling. To dare allege bad kids and poor parenting is the organized crime problem in Youngstown. Even without badges or judicial power on the bench or controlling prosecutions,.. AMAZING AREN'T THEY !!!
See that's as implausible as alleging those kids and parents. Has steered Youngstown's city schools into such an abyss of requiring state and federal intervention emergency,..THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE !!!
So for them to have so fastidiously summonsed their friends and families to skew that previously accurate and damning 72% to 27% tally. That reflected over 4000 polled that factually cited the alleged " city leaders " is telling,.. WHAT A SUDDEN SHIFT HUH?
However, their efforts are to no avail because the FACTS are what they are. And they damn sure can't obliterate them either.
See beyond opinion record reveals that Youngstown is ran by a collective cronyism cabal comprised of incompetency and corruption. To wit agree or disagree there's factual records and social condition that prove it,.. THEY CAN'T SKEW THAT !!!
So see let the record reflect that if those worthless shills were to perform their vested duties. Even remotely as how frantically as they've taken to combating this polling tally. Which they've mounted by merely having their family and cronies make a run on flooding the polling to try blaming the parents.
The FACT is that Youngstown wouldn't be in the shape it's in and there's not a damn thing they can say, show or allege to prove otherwise,..IT'S SELF EVIDENT AND IRREFUTABLY SPEAKS FOR ITSELF !!!
So now that we've gotten clarity on that. The residents can view this as exactly just what they're dealing with in regards to methodology of said " city Leaders ",.. A DISGRACE !!!
The message here is now where they've shown they can skew a polling. But they damn sure can't vindicate their lack of worth and their works and records PROVE it,.. NOW HOWS THAT?
It's election time people and if you demand better. Now is your only chance to demand accountability from those on the ballot,.. CHANGE NEEDS TO START UN-EMPLOYING THEM NOV 2ND !!!
I was noting that " 6500 participants " too,.. LMAO !!!
Where it's to be expected and known that those " city leaders " saw that 72% to 27% tally that recognized them as problems. So they no doubt account for some of that re-voting.
However, that " 6500 " number on an outlet like Vindy in such a short period of time. Could only be achieved by an onslaught of multiple votes by the same individuals.
Or Vindy was contacted by " city leaders " and requested to taint the tally. See when it was 72% citing " city leaders " as the main problem.
See there were just over 4000 votes recorded. Now all of a sudden in ONE DAY's time. There's not only currently " 6552 " which is roughly 2500 new people in the polling.
But that groundswell of " people ".are supposed to be alleging to favor the bad kids and faultless " city leaders " theory,.. HILARIOUS ISN'T IT !!!
To top it off I didn't even poll either way I opted to express my views in detail. But see you have to remember it's ELECTION time.
So those non deserving of votes have to blame the parents and those town seizing kids,.. NO MATTER HOW ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS THAT DELIBERATELY IRRESPONSIBLE ANGLE IS !!!
They must not realize that who they're accusing as the problem. Are the same voters that can, should and they gave another reason to vote them out,.. AND EARLY VOTING IS AVAILABLE TO START DOING IT !!!
Nunya @ No matter what your or my opinion is or if we agree with each other .We only have one vote each and it is up to us to use that vote as we see fit . But it is good to read what some of our neighbors have to say .I just wish we had 6500+ ideas to read and not just the same thing over and over by a few .
lol finally someone figured out you can continually click vote and cast 1000 votes without having to load the next screen. Epic survey Vindy.
I can only say that I did not look to city officials to raise my children to be upstanding citizens. They turned out to be young adults that any parent can be proud of. The fact that city officials were doing or not doing their job had nothing to do with how my children turned out. It was parenting.
Part of the problem is our society is base around the thought that most parent will raise there child right. Leaving a small number that no mater how good the parenting are going to become criminals and that small number can be controlled by the courts and cops. When we have mass amounts of parents raising there kids poorly because they where raised no better themselves . We have no choice but to change how society works.
You're onto something there,..
That being no matter how well a parent and or parents try to raise their children. It's no guarantee the offspring won't defy them and resort to criminality.
See not to say we've all watched a proverbial criminally insane individual grow up. But by the same token we've all had friends and even some family members that has went the wrong way. To have embraced doing self serving things and subscribing to criminality.
That's left many wondering and or questioning just what, why and or where in the hell. Did the once believed to be good and or great kid do or figure why they veered off the right track
It's not always parenting and where just like being exposed to abuse and criminality can flip a kid and or individual. Another kid or individual can go through the same type of environment and it serves as reason for them not to falter to it.
It's pretty much the same for those who's had and or has drug addict or alcoholic parents. Where some will follow the mistake and others will see it for what it is and avoid it at all costs.
See to the sensible there's no such thing as an impressive drunk or dope addict. Where in regards to parenting to a child and or offspring. Numbers show that the majority rightfully sees the substances that took their parent[s] from them as greatly disfavored.
I mean we're no oddities having been kids that didn't grow up with everything. My family doesn't have Cafaro money and there's a great number of birthdays, Christmases and back to school times. That whatever we got was accepted and yet not quiet the " Big ticket " items we had our hopes set on.
But yet here we are as sane, stable, successful and non-sulking people. That sensibly utilized that experience for our betterment to make a life for ourselves and better for our children. I'm not the only one here that didn't always get a cake for my birthday or a party thrown in my honor of celebration and my friends didn't either. Yet none of us that were very close got into criminality and by way of preserving opportunities in our lives we greatly benefit from it as adults,.. Who cares if we were once poor and or not spoiled kids.
Yet if to recite a number of various hardships and letdowns we endured coming up. There's some that would try to call them aspects of " bad parenting ",.. Get real it's not.
Then there are some that would even show such a excuse reliant weakness. That they'd use various things as to solicit self pity,.. AND I AIN'T BUYING IT !!!
The rule of law if orchestrated right. Is one where if the individual shows a criminal liability to society.
They're to be made to pay for it by having the right of non incarceration. Which is one that by actions they chose to reduce to a privilege. Judicially limited or taken away for years if not the entire remainder of their life.
The Unabomber was turned in by his brother. Both raised by the same parents.
Criminals are responsible for being criminals. It's on them. Just asking this question is a form of giving them a pass or an excuse.
Society has rules and if you break them you should be held responsible. No plea bargain. Criminals need to serve the time for the crime they commit. If you want to stop crime keep the criminals in jail.
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