I hope all Americans can work together for effective and positive reform, rather than the care-rationing and budget-busting Obama"care". HR3200 impedes progress toward actual reform, because it is a disaster that is dishonestly called reform.
This is no game. Serious consequences are at stake. Free market and tort reforms would reduce medical expenditures and reduce wasteful spending. It would reduce (rather than expand, like HR3200 does) coverage-based medical decisions and increase need-based decisions.
As long as HR3200 has a pulse, I hope both parties work together to abandon it for true reform.
It would be pretty hard for them to work together when you have one party that wants health care reform and the other party would rather do nothing.
cambridge, republicans are more than open to reform. just because people don't agree with the method of doing it doesn't mean they won't do reform. As Rep Wilson ignorantly shouted out, YOU LIE!.... I have outlined many ideas to reform healthcare however single payer and a public option isn't one of them.
Search.....I'm going to have to disagree. The Republicans are pro insurance companies and the Democrats are pro health care. There is a difference. One is working for the good of the people the other for the good of insurance companies.
I don't agree with that statement. If either party was really were about healthcare they would be presenting solutions dealing with the doctor shortage in this country. This is about getting rid of the "evil" insurance companies and replacing it with more government.
The thing that concerns me is that the penalty of not providing healthcare was lower than the cost of employees providing healthcare and then the person would be put on the public option. 8% is what obama said... I would assume the public option is still there so that would be putting more people onto the public option.
It does not matter if they work together or not. The dems have a huge majority to pass whatever they like.
The insurance companies lead a small minority of the country to spread rumors, innuendos and distortions about the health care reform that is long over due. Insurance companies are against the reform because it would loosen their stranglehold and the ability to raise rates, drop coverage on the sick, deny coverage for preexisting conditions and cut into their billions in profit.
The Republicans and the so called conservatives want a health care system managed by private insurance companies who are the same companies that make those obscene profits by denying coverage to their policy holders.
I am very troubled by the "misinformation" that has been spread re: Obama"care". Here are a few examples:
It will be deficit-neutral. Am I supposed to believe that the nonpartisan CBO can't do math?
It won't result in rationing. The $600+ billion/10 years in Medicare cuts would never limit care?
It does not cover illegal aliens. Why did the DSP deny a GOP amendment to specifically exclude illegal aliens?
It is not yet another government takeover of the private sector (socialism by definition). How would a public option not lead to a single payer system?
The existence of "death panels" is a lie. Of course there is no creation of something entitled "Death Panels". But the intellectualy honest must ask themselves the function of the "Federal Health Board", and what the impact of their rationing will be.
Nonprogress.....Obama wants to create laws that make it against the law for an insurance company to drop you because you get sick, if you change jobs or insurance companies you can't be refused insurance because of preexisting conditions and you will not have to go bankrupt and lose your life's work as a result of illness even though you have insurance.
Let me ask you a question. Are you against these conditions becoming law? Think a moment before you answer. If you think these reforms should take place you are agreeing that the government should step in and do the right thing for it's citizens or do you think that would be socialism?
Cambridge, I agree with you that something needs to be done about companies dropping people because of illness... we should pass laws that seal that up tighter. I believe that would be under contract law so we should look there to fix that problem. As far as the preexisting condition problem we could solve that by having insurance decoupled from employement. Its not a problem if you don't have to switch insurance because of a new job.
Solutions rarely come from the government, just because we have problems doesn't mean we need some form of public option.
To reduce costs we need more doctors. We already have a doctor shortage and it is only getting worse. I haven't heard any ideas for how to get more doctors from either side... it's pretty odd we have discussion about healthcare and it isn't all that often someone mentions that we have a shortage of doctors.
'Did you know if this socialistic scam becomes law, we will be obligated to cover illegals?" Pro, you've been watching too much fox. I saw that too when Napolitano said that. I don't follow his logic.... the program is unconstitutional but then through some odd interpretation of a weird case out of the 9th circuit he can conclude that somehow the constitution would dictate that? I'd rather hear Obama's interpretation of how this program would be constitutional.
UnAmerican....Factcheck,org says: "liar liar pants on fire."
OUST (ALL) INCUMBENTS FIRE ALL THE CROOKS FEDERAL STATE LOCAL
I know it wont stop people like you from telling lies or making things up but every time you do I'm going to post a link that proves your full of crap.
UnAmerican.....Like I said, every time you lie and say illegal will be covered I'll post a link that proves you lied.
I don't understand fools like you. Illegals are about 3% of the U S population. You and your idiot friends are willing to junk a health care plan that will benefit 97% of the population because some part of that 3% might sneak into some emergency room and receive emergency care.
I don't want people here illegally anymore than anyone else does. They come here for jobs. If you fine the people that employ them and jail the people that employ them for continued infractions, those jobs would no longer be offered and without the prospect of work the illegals would leave.
They are two separate problems and it's a shame your not intelligent enough to figure that out.
I do not understand what all this discussion is about health care. cambridge says the illegals will not be covered. Does that mean that they will be turned away from the emergency rooms? They aren't now!
The leeches and the illegals have free health care. They go to the emergency room for every little sniffle, pay nothing and the taxpayers pick up the bill. Obummer is telling everyone that it is gonna be cheaper for everyone with his health care bill. Millions believe it. Not worth further comment on my part.
"H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens participating in the Exchange—whether the noncitizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently.”
That paragraph comes from the report entitled “Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200” by the non-partisan Congressional Research Service. CRS also notes that the bill has no provision for requiring those seeking coverage or services to provided proof of citizenship.
§152 says “all healthcare…services covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.”
While we're addressing Obama's untruths (I'm being kind) , can we find a more honest name for the bill than "America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009"?
The 3% of people in the U S that are here illegally will not be covered in the health care plan.
UnAmerican....."2.1 million". Liar liar pants on fire.
Below is a link to the Center for Immigration Studies. The conclusion states:
"...the nearly seven million uninsured illegal immigrants with qualifying incomes could receive affordability credits under the bill, creating billions of dollars in costs to taxpayers."
If you are honestly wondering if we are going to be paying for illegal aliens health care, you gotta ask yourself two questions:
1. Why did the DSP-controlled Congress willfully defeat a GOP proposal to apply the SAVE verification program to illegal aliens? Why??
2. Cost-shifting currently covers the expenses of illegals now. What in this bill makes one think that that practice will stop with Obama"care"?
Nonsocialist.....You choose to believe the opinion of a blogger (Steven A Camarota) who untill right now I've never heard of. I might as well just believe UnAmericans opinion. I saw nowhere in his opinion where he cited the the part of the bill word for word that proved his opinion as fact. If he did include the part of the bill that says that illegals will be covered I missed it.
I choose to believe FactCheck,org. They are unbiased and call BS on Obama when he has it coming and have no political leanings. FactCheck on the other hand cited lies being told about the bill and provided the exact part of the bill that disputes the lie directly from the bill. Big difference from what Mr. Camarota did.
I purposely don't use blogs as backup to anything I post. Just look at this board and there are countless "Read Blog" to the right of peoples usernames. They are nothing more than peoples opinions. You know what the say about opinions don't you?
There are plenty of Republicans in Congress who are against health care reform. You should go to their web site and see if any show the exact part of the bill from the bill word for word that says illegals will be covered. If I were you I'd start with Joe Wilson.
Dr. Camarota has been with the Center for Immigration Studies since 1996 and his area of expertise is economics and demographics. He holds a Ph.D. from the University of Virginia in public policy analysis and a master’s degree in political science from the University of Pennsylvania.
He is an expert in this field and writes articles related to immigration matters.
He is absolutely correct that the DSP lawmakers have blocked attempts for verification of immigration status re: receiving health benefits under HR3200. That is not his or my opinion, it is fact.
That being the case, an illegal alien could apply and recieve this entitlement without fear of their status being discovered.
The glaring question remains: Why would the DSPs exert any time and energy in blocking this GOP proposal re: SAVE verification? Surely there's a reason. What do you think it is?
here in south carolina we have a govenor that uses the tax payers money to go on dates and a state rep that calls the president a liar on the floor of the house....and they claim Jim Traficant is screwed up???????????????????? I think mr limbaugh and mr beck should go take a flying leap at a *************
UnAmerican....."2.1 million at DC Tea Party"
Liar Liar pants on fire.
It says here, "tens of thousands".
UnAmerican....."2.1M Tea Part Patriots".
ABC News says 60-70 thousand.
How many times have you lied on this board and then I post proof of your lies? Aren't you embarrassed? There is something seriously wrong with your brain.
UnAmerican.....You lie and and provide nothing to back those lies up.
I check out your group "The Cleveland Teabaggers" I found a couple videos on YouTube. Looks like a real bright group.
UnAmerican.....I took your advice and checked out the "Cleveland Teabaggers" web site. The link below is their home page. The photo section on the right is the most hilarious part. Looks like a "Clown Hall Meeting".
UnAmerican....."2.1M in DC"
The Washington Post says: Liar Liar pants on fire.
Pro, where are you getting this 2.1 Million number? I have a feeling you are talking about who showed up nationwide to all tea party events and I have a feeling Cambridge is talking about DC specifically.
Search....UnAmerican claims the DC Police say 2.1 million were in DC. I'm waiting for him to post their press release or verification of their statement. He can't post it because it doesn't exist because they never said it. It's just one of the voices in his head. So far every news organization I have referred to says less than 100,000. From now on every time a lie is posted I'm going to post reputable proof it's a lie.
UnAmerican,,,,,"2.1M at DC tea party".
CBS News says: Liar Liar pants on fire.
UnAmerican,,,,,"2.1M in DC"
Post the link where the Capital Police back up your statement.
The link below is a video from Comcast.net. They say: Liar Lair pants on fire.
A reporter interviews some of the "Tea Baggers". One of them could be you. Check it out and let me know if your one of the clowns the reporter is talking too.
Wrong as usual Pro...
Your quotes of millions is based on a local news report's estimate. Turns out... not so much.
epicfail.....who ya going to believe, Fox News or UnAmerican? Poor guy thought he was going to the Million Moron March and they couldn't even find 100,000 morons to show up.
The pictures I've seen show the TEA Party crowd on 12 Sept to extend from the Capitol Building to the Washington Monument. No one knows the actual number, but from what I've read, The London Daily Mail could even be underestimating the attendance figure. Of course there were simultaneous TEA party gatherings across the country drawing thousands at each, and these are not included (obviously) in the DC estimates.
Don't fret libs. You still hold electoral power with the government-dependent/youth/union voting block. You'll just have to rule with more of an iron fist.
Nonsocialist.....Any chance of getting a reputable news organization in this country to back up that claim? Your actually going with The Daily Mail from the UK over Fox News?
I vary my cited sources because I seek info from different sources. I've never used this London publication before. Maybe you could provide a list of authorities that I'm not allowed to use as a source, because it seems to be extensive. I'm guessing that you feel Air America, MSNBC and HuffPo are pretty solid. Better yet, why not use fact and reason to dispute the info I've presented. While you're at it, ask yourself why the Housing ACORN scandal is censored by the non-Fox media. This is a group with close ties to Obama and receives BILLIONS from the Federal Treasury. Why was the Czar Van Jones story essentially a Fox story, even after he resigned?
Question authority. Question all authority. Even if it is the DSP or the GOP. Don't be somebody's lapdog. Be a freedom-ophile...a liberty-monger. Turn from the dark side...
Nonsocialist.....You use a right wing blogger as a source. LOL! "The Center For Immigration Studies". Give me a break. I'm guessing the the center is the guys kitchen table. All of his blogs have a right wing agenda as indicated by the list on his link below. I don"t see where his blog is featured in any newspapers. I don't see a single advertiser on the web site. Know why he's not featured in any newspapers and has no adds? His site gets no hits.
The "Daily Mail" from the UK. Who ever heard of that. I don't really care what you use to backup your views but if you use bloggers and obscure newspapers from outside the country I'm going to have to laugh at you and put you in the same file as UnAmerican. :-)
I think we all have to accept that there is something wrong with our healthcare system. The public option is highly devisive. We need to find things that we all agree on (and there are some) and get those things done. Start with tort reform, do it separate from the other reforms.
Refer to the link below re: the Center for Immigration Studies. It lists its Fellows, Board of Directors, and staff. It also lists accolades from United States Senators, Representatives and even a DSP Governor. In other words, "the center is the guys kitchen table" is clearly not true.
Why is a London media source illegitimate in your view? Only the NYT and CNN got it figured out? Seriously?
Does all the DSP rhetoric really add up in your mind? Because neither the GOP nor the DSP rhetoric adds up in mine. They profit from creating false divisions amongst us. They both bankrupt us and lie to us to retain power. You seem too smart to be falling for all this.
I agree, pro; the Swaggart thing was an unfair comparison...Swaggart was able to sway people without using silly, third-grade level nicknames as motivation. Swaggart preyed upon weak-mindedness while you prey upon people's ignorance and the notion that if you repeat the same things 500 times that eventually people will buy into it.
Swaggart was good at what he did while you simply fail multiple times each day. I've said it before but if you have to call people names and insult their intelligence to further your argument that means your argument is helplessly and impossibly weak. This is the same argument style from the 50's when people like McCarthy used similar approaches to try to force our society to regress rather than evolve; it didn't work then and it won't work now.
Defending McCarthyism...not surprising in the least ProMerkin. Seems like yesterday that innocent people were being blacklisted in a thinly-veiled form of legal racism, doesn't it? Not for me, of course, I'm not a geriatric...you get the point though.
"... narrow minded use idiots." You got so worked up I think you typoed your mantra there, buddy. A fail within a fail -- well done.
The Swaggart thing happened a long time ago and I was just a kid at that point but I believe he made millions of dollars from his racket; you just make yourself appear ignorant and give the impression that you breathe exclusively though your mouth...Swaggart wins on that basis and on the fact that he almost had to be a better speller than you.
UnAmerican......"2.1M Tea Party Patriots in DC"
The Associated Press says: Liar Liar Pants on Fire.
ProMerkin, were you present in STL when the event that you inaccurately describe took place? I ask because it took place less than 10 miles from my home and I've spoken with people from both sides of the issue that actually were in attendance, their versions of the events are identical and differ completely with your version.
Your perspective and sense of reality are equally warped. I suggest you leave the house more often, not just to burn crosses and attend conservative, anti-American rallies. Go to the track and play the slots or something, I'm told that they even have nickel slots for those on fixed incomes.
UnAmerican....This is the video of the beating that has you panties in a bunch. I'll say the same thing I said the first time I saw this video. I've seen Nuns give better beatings.
UnAmerican...."2.1M tea party patriots in DC"
USA TODAY say: Liar Liar pants on fire.
Do not mean to hijack this thread but for all of you that still consider yourselves to be Americans, save a little energy to discuss the happenings scheduled for Sept. 25th. I am referring to the next scheduled gathering in the nations capital.
It will possibly wake a few of the libs up, but not all!
UnAmerican.....I haven't said one word about how many tea baggers were in DC. All I've done is post links from reputable news organizations and everyone of them says less than 100,000. Below is the list of those news orginizations.
San Francisco ChronicleABC NewsWashington PostCBS NewsOpEd NewsComcast.netFox NewsAssociated PressUSA Today
redvert....thanks for letting me know what the qualifications are to consider myself an American.
cambridge, you obviously have no idea what I am referring to! You like to provide data, do a little research!
Ok, take a break for a minute!
cambridge, have a sense of humor!
California 's Turn...So as not to be outdone by all the redneck, hillbilly, and Texan jokes, somebody had to come up with this:
You know you're from California if:
1.Your co-worker has 8 body piercings and none are visible.
2.You make over $300,000 and still can't afford a house.
3. You take a bus and are shocked at two people carrying on a conversation in English.
4..Your child's 3rd-grade teacher has purple hair, a nose ring, and is named Flower.
5..You can't remember . . is pot illegal?
6.You've been to a baby shower that has two mothers and a sperm donor.
7.You have a very strong opinion about where your coffee beans are grown, and you can taste the difference between Sumatran and Ethiopian.
8.You can't remember . . is pot illegal?
9.A really great parking space can totally move you to tears.
10.Gas costs $1.00 per gallon more than anywhere else in the U.S.
11.Unlike back home, the guy at 8:30 am at Starbucks wearing a baseball cap and sunglasses who looks like George Clooney really IS George Clooney.
12. Your car insurance costs as much as your house payment.
13.You can't remember . . is pot illegal?
14.It's barely sprinkling rain and there's a report on every news station: "STORM WATCH.."
15.You pass an elementary school playground and the children are all busy with their cells or pagers.
16.It's barely sprinkling rain outside, so you leave for work an hour early to avoid all the weather-related accidents.
17.HEY!!!! Is pot illegal????
18..Both you AND your dog have therapists, psychics, personal trainers and cosmetic surgeons.
19.The Terminator is your governor.
20.If you drive illegally, they take your driver's license. If you're here illegally, they want to give you one.
redvert....LOL! True that.
Ah....pot is legal, right?
Merkin, I never commented on the size nor events of your DC gathering, mainly because I don't know what gathering you are referring to. Didn't even mention it...yet you say I did. Warped reality...keep up your courageous fight against common sense.
Capitalism works? It does for 1% of the country who own 95% of the wealth in this country.
UnHinged.....You keep referring to six thugs almost killing some guy. The video is in post 85 on this page. The guy gives an interview after it happened. He isn't out of breath, he isn't lumped up, he isn't bleeding. How can you be from Y-town and call that a beating?
That was an everyday occurrence in the neighborhood I grew up in and we would be choosing sides to play baseball with the same kids two hours later. Man your a p***y.
Forgotten your password?