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« Polls

How would you rate President Obama’s first eight months in office?

ChoicePercentVisualVotes
Good33%
325
Fair15%
157
Poor50%
500
982 total votes

Comments

1JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I thought you weren't GOP or Dem, Merkin. All the sudden "we" lost both houses and the WH?

I don't know what to think anymore. Let me further compliment you on nice grammar all around.

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2cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

UnHinged.....You belonged to unions and reaped their benefits and a living wage and now bad mouth them every chance you get.

You cry socialism whenever the government tries to help its citizens by investing tens of millions and saving jobs in the valley while you collect your social security check.

You vote for Bush twice and defended everything he did while he was in office and voted for McCain who supported Bush 95% of the time and now it's "I never liked the guy he was a bad president".

Are you loyal to anything? You would be last guy I'd want to go to war with. A true coward.

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3cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I'm laughing really hard right about now.

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4Stan(9923 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Well Diane86 I don't buy for a second that you were a lifelong Republican . Who are you trying to fool ? You sound like a liberal story teller .

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5borylie(834 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Cambridge,what are you doing? Standing in front of a mirror? (Post#9) Before this post gets away from the very important question of how Obama is doing,let's one at a time list Obama's failed campaign promises,then will get into his failed domesticate policies,failed cabinet choices and failed czars. Then get into foreign affairs,ie.goofy gifts,no closer than Bush in catching Bin Laden,no exit strategy in Afghanistan and the potential catastrophe in getting rid of the missile defense in Eastern Europe. Let's use facts,as there is plenty.#1) All bills before they're signed into law will be available to the public to read for at least 5 days. This poll for you'll no paying attention is about Obama,not Bush or Cheney.

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6DoctorGonzo(728 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I am not sure how anyone can logically or seriously answwer "Good" to this poll. I think "Fair" is likely the most realistic as it has only been 8 months.

I would like someone to convince me how doubling the deficit in his first 3 months in office will not single-handedly strangle any real growth potential out of this economy over the next couple decades? Notice I said "real" growth potential.

I am happy to see that society never ceases to show me how stupid they are and how much they do not know or understand about anything they comment on. The only thing the internet has really achieved is depicting how moronic adults in this society are. I am truly scared for the future. Before I was exposed to the mass stupidity my own ignornace on the matter was bliss.

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7paulydel(1332 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I don't know how people who are supposed to be intelligent can look at Obuma's creditials voted for him. He hasn't run anything except the scam he's got going now.

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8JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Good is a stretch, plain and simple. Given the current climate I don't know how anyone could really think that things are "good." That said, the 72 votes at present hardly yield a representative sampling of the population.

I am admittedly uneducated on the whole ACORN thing, I'm aware of the organization and that some new things have come to light in regard to it and from the sounds of it these things are indefensible, but to paint an entire organization and/or section of the population with that brush doesn't make sense to me.

On the other hand I also realize that not all conservatives harbor the type of resentment toward the current administration that we sometimes see on these pages.

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9borylie(834 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

There's a whole lot more on ACORN than you (Jeff and Quail) don't know about. You really should listen to Glen Beck and FOX and then form your own opinions. There's a lot of things the media is and has not reported that isn't news until someone reports it. I know and I agree that I'm a rightwinger,but at least I'm informed. There's some really scary stuff going on and has been for at least 50 years that's starting to come to fruition. Call me a fear mongerer or whatever,I don't care,but you'll aren't going to like where we are heading. Watch FOX.

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10JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

That's what I thought, Pro.

borylie, I'm not interested in talking heads like this Beck person (who I'm told was a disc jockey and appears on the verge of crazed tears on his TV show, I've honestly never laid eyes on him) nor the media outlets that they represent. I tend to roll with NPR.

Combining the fact that this ACORN stuff doesn't seem to be getting a lot of traction among the public and that I don't watch cable news channels to have knowledge about it, I would submit that it is a "media story" that exists only to serve the ratings beast. To form opinions based on "media stories" designed to increase ratings would seem to be an irresponsible thing for me (or anyone for that matter) to do.

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11borylie(834 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Pro, that's 8 Billion in addition to the 53 Million that they already have recieved. Jeff your a lost cause. You're not worthy of debate. But,why did Van Jones resign and ACORN lose all their funding if Fox just did it for ratings? Obama and Nancy did it to help Fox? People like you don't deserve this once great country that is being turned into what other countries are. Glen Beck almost singlehanded has made many people of both parties and those in between(basically Americans) informed on what's going on. It's not about politics. You're a poor excuse for an American.

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12borylie(834 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

MrsRupp, Thank you. To Quail,that I don't know anything about? You are a joke. A bad joke. To Pro,it's not the capitalists you need to worry about. The country is full of communists,we just don't call them that anymore. Seriously,50 years ago they started to make their move and know with congress and the White House full of far left thinkers,it's the perfect storm.

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13JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Quail, I live out of state but I catch NPR on satellite radio. Their website is also pretty good.

So...just to make sure I'm clear, I'm a poor excuse for an American because I don't watch ENTERTAINERS pass on entertainment as news on cable and network TV. I also don't consult electricians for medical advice...I guess I must just not get it.

Also, never said I don't watch TV, just don't watch cable and network news...slow down and read what is in front of you. My quote was "I am admittedly uneducated on the whole ACORN thing," what about that statement is difficult to understand? From what I now see the Senate voted earlier this week and the House just voted today, neither of which I knew about last nigh, that's great...whatever. I have no skin in arguing for or against this organization, although I would say that they appear quite shady but the most recent scandal involving 2 of their 400,000+ members seems like "gotcha journalism" defined.

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14Stan(9923 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Acorn will revitalize Youngstown with their own string of cat houses . The only regret that Acorn has was getting recorded . The criminal intent was good but the exposure of it was bad.

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15JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

rudy, I said from the beginning that I was uneducated on ACORN and that because of that I couldn't defend or promote it. Your nonsensical rambling doesn't serve to better my understanding...I literally have no idea what you are talking about. Literally. I also don't care about a witch hunt being waged on a political action group rooted on either side of the aisle. Step to me all you want, you'll still appear to be a degenerate mouthbreather and I'll still value my intellect and education as a result. Me and other people who are rational human beings, we own you, today and everyday. We sit at the grown-up table and are the decision-makers. But don’t despair – the world needs ditchdiggers, too.

pro, you must (again) have me confused with someone else who regularly demonstrates how their grasp of basic common sense far outweighs your own. I never commented on how many wackos, er, people decended on DC. Not once. I didn't because I really don't care. Really. Honestly. And guess what? Most other people don’t care either. They don’t care because people at your rally are so “patriotic” that they make a mockery of our country by defacing photos of the president to portray him as Hitler and make signs that say things like "Obama's Plan: White Slavery." Reasonable people are turned off by such behavior. How do you think garbage like that plays overseas? What little respect we still command in the international community further erodes DAILY because of “patriots” like these.

Yes, as an intelligent person I am starting to take it personally; ignorance passes as wisdom, grandstanding rhetoric replaces intelligent and thoughtful appreciation of different points-of-view. I’ve said it on these pages before, pro, I respect your POV but often beg to differ, especially when you throw your credibility out the window by calling people nicknames and using racist terms to describe others.

Get it together folks.

Paid for by The Committee to Elect Kucinich/Dean 2016.

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16epicfail(217 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

"THEY'RE COMMUNISTS! THEY HATE AMERICA! THEY WANT TO REDUCE AMERICA DOWN TO THE LEVEL OF THE REST OF THE WORLD! STOP THEM!"

Es ist zeit fur rache!
Wir mussen die Liberal ausrotten!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pass...

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17epicfail(217 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

"I know Obama is no different than Hitler or Stalin. Can you prove otherwise?"

That's easily the most ignorant thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

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18epicfail(217 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

No, you can't and you really just make yourself look like a fool. No one will take anything you say seriously after reading that quote.

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19JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

There is no way I would enjoy or support Bush being portrayed as Hitler, whether it happened during his administration or now. No way.

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20epicfail(217 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

ascii facepalm just for pro

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...................................,

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21Nonsocialist(710 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Mrs. Rupp's comments above (#29) are a must read. I hope she continues to offer her insights on this website.

Mrs. Rupp in 2012!

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22andersonathan(675 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Wiki George Soros some time, ask England, ask the Asians.

Look up Democracy Alliance, follow who this guy funds.

I will give you one fine example Project Ohio is being funded through the back door by this man. In fact if you do some typing you find almost every heavy industrial state or what was OH, MI, etc Soros and his friends are sliding money into them through groups to push the Obama socialist agenda.

Obama handed a Brazilian company 2 Billion dollars for oil exploration Soros owns a part of it or has stock in it some say as high as 15%, most report are above 10% So at 10% that's 200 million of your tax dollars funneled to Soros.

But hey make those telling the truth out to be racist. Attack them and their family's. Then blame Bush.

So why don't we all get off our high horses for a bit and start supporting the troops and their mission. And if you can not do that then please walk in front of the troops for they are being killed daily in Afghanistan by road side bombs.

But no Obama wants health care at a tune of almost 900 billion, he wants to impose cap and trade, he wants to investigate the CIA. He has no problem with the SCHIP, SODA or FAT TAX. He has no problem funding abortions in other countries and handing planned parent hood their few hundred million. He has no problem standing in front of congress and telling bold face lies to them and to the country.

I Hope He Fails To!

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23andersonathan(675 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

True, I turned off all MSM and cable, I tune into a couple of people on the AM dial like Mark Levin.

I never voted for GWB [no vote in 04] I wrote off the democrats due to 911 and coming out saying things like we support the troops but not the war, of course abortion and other things made it a easy move. I never like the Haliburton /Chaney relationship but not a lot of choices out there in that area. The biggest problem was in 06 when everything came to a grinding halt when congress changed hands. And it is still a problem.

Any fool out there that still thinks Barry O and the boys are not full blown liberals by now are idiots. The only thing that kept Billy Clinton in the center range was a Republican congress.

So as far as both parties go I do not trust either one, I will however stand with the Conservatives and hope that they get their act together and join forces like they have with the TEA Party and make as much noise as possible not only in exposing these people for who they are and holding them accountable. But a loud enough voice to make a difference. And let both parties know it is time to start listening to the people, not special interest groups or start looking for other work.

And you are right those who want to voice a negative tone towards this administration is quickly tagged and bagged as a racist. And after that week old debate defending your self or trying too, they switch to blaming Bush, till the next person or group calls them on their bold face lies. Then it is back to being racist again.

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24cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

andersonathan....."And you are right those who want to voice a negative tone towards this administration is quickly tagged a and bagged as a racist."

Since the quote below is your post on Nov.4, 2008 I can see where some might suspect you as being a racist.

andersonathan....."OMG that Hussien guy u, no the Muslim who is half white with the Aunt won? We are doomed Jan, 20th 2009."

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25borylie(834 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

andersonnathan, If your called a racist,whether you are or not,agree and say,so what? Don't defend yourself,it doesn't matter. Let's quit letting the libs change the subject and end debate. Stay on offense.

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26Nonsocialist(710 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I find it stunning that followers and rulers of the DSP(Democratic-Socialist Party) have the audacity to call anyone a racist. I believe that they do it because they realize that they'll lose a fact and reason based discussion everytime.

I could fill volumes with the racist history of the DSP, but here's a taste:

Dred Scott Decision

1864 DSP (then just the DP) platform advised withdrawl from the Civil War and continuance of slavery.

Opposition of the 1964 Civil Rights act DP>GOP

KKK formed from a radical branch of DP

Current Senator Byrd (D-WV) a former member of KKK.

DP opposition to reconstruction and the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments.

Ongoing support of entitlements that disincentivize minorities to seek education and financial indepence. I've heard this government-dependence refered to as "Uncle Sam's Plantation."

For shame, Jimmy Carter, for shame.

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27borylie(834 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Jimmy Carter: 18 white males,1 white female,1 black female. This was Carter's cabinet for his 4 years.

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28andersonathan(675 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Come on Cambridge I know you can do better than that.

Hussein guy? Truth his middle name is that.

Muslim? His father was under Muslim law he is one when born? So look that up.

Half white? Well close kinda, like a caller into Ingram said that is wrong to say. Since once you put chocolate in milk it changes color and flavor forever? And he was a brother of another color.

His own Aunt? Yes she was a illegal and by law she should have been deported. One half brother living in a hut, one have brother busted for pot, half sister? Grandmother on his dad's side last we heard just received electric and running water. Yet I am sure the issue of John McCain's ex-wife and Sarah Palin's son and pregnant kid were more of a moral issue, rather than a family values issue. It would have been kinda hard to keep track of relatives while attending Harvard Law, since the Aunt lived in Boston. Or it might take to much to reach out to his deep heritage in Kenya [tag-n-bag me] and help a brother out?

Or better yet move them all into a Tony Rezko slum lord apartment building right there in Chicago. This way they all could have attended Rev. Wright's church together. Everyone could see the kids and his wife, I am sure employment through ACORN could of happened, I mean the possibilities are endless. And why are my Tax Dollars paying for the First Ladies Mother being housed in the White House?

So you do not need me to plaY the card when it seems fit. he started this race deal in Iowa and like I say your side uses it anytime some one has every tried to say anything negative about him, his policies etc. Bill Clinton SC primaries tagged and bagged. If anyone is throwing fuel on the fire coming to race it is coming from your side you want this and you need this issue. And the rest of us are very tired of it.

AND I HOPE HE FAILS TO!

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29cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Nathan....There your comments not mine. They speak for themselves.

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30andersonathan(675 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Maybe the sad thing is about all of this, people wanted change and still do. But a change into a socialist country is not going to happen with out a fight.

The people have a voice and that voice shall be heard. And from recent events it is working.

Your side does not need a single {R} to do a thing and personally I wish you would do it with out us so I could say told you so down the line.

And anyone who thinks email, letters, phone calls to your Congressmen and Senators don't work your wrong. Unless your dealing with Little Timmy and Brown Nose Brown. There are others in this country that will listen and take your money.

I just want to know Why ABC NBC CBS MSNBC [mslsd] CNN and even local news and papers will not cover the disgraceful dealings of ACORN. One must wonder since everyone knows ACORN is OBAMA and OBAMA is ACORN is this the reason? Approval ratings is a joke with out the truth.

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31Hortus(34 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I am an independent voter, therefore I look at all candidates with a jaundice eye.

Being either a Republican or a Democrat means nothing to me, except these are the two most corrupt organizations imaginable. I don’t batter or barter with them unless they use their political clout to harm me.

And they both have, using my disability as their weapon of war (specifically Westmoreland County, PA) where they consider mental illnesses and developmental disabilities as the same thing--which they are not.

A person running on the Independent ticket means nothing either unless they agree to thorough and honest vetting procedures.

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32cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

FactCheck.org says Palin lied about death panels.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/pali...

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33scrooge(563 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Cambridge - OK so they aren't called "death panels". What exactly would you call manditory counseling for the elderly on how to die? HMMM?
Just give em a pill to ease the pain instead of spending thousands of dollars to prolong AND BETTER their life. What the heck, they're old and a drag on societhy anyway.....right?
By the way how OLD are YOU??
Typical Liberal B.S.

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34JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Great post, scrooge. Clearly you're the one paying close attention to things. Unfortunately in your case age clearly doesn't reveal intelligence.

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35cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Dorothy...."What about the Bamster Czar who advocated forced abortion?"

If your going to post something that outrageous how about providing a link to some reliable source to back it up?

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36andersonathan(675 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Look it up, Cambridge from a man who uses factcheck? LMAO?

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37cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I don't quote someone from some blog or Fix Noise as though it's fact. I use a reputable new source. Provide a video or a direct quote from John Holdren saying "I promote forced abortion."

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38Eric(196 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Quail is right, there is no "death panel" that would cut off care to critically ill patients. Palin incorrectly called it that and sparked all kinds of unnecessary controversy. The health care plan simply allowed Medicare to pay for consultations of patients with their physicians concerning end of life issues, such as pain management and appropriate treatments for aggressive diseases.

Let's be honest-all of us will die. I worked in long-term care for many years, and I, as well as my former coworkers, can immediately testify to the value of such a service. That is why AARP supports the measure. Patients need to be able to have open and honest discussions with their physicians about the appropriate treatments of diseases that will ultimately end their life. Anyone who equates this type of discussion to a "death panel" is just ignorant.

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39Freethinker(24 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

This letter to the Editor was taken from the Tribune Chronicle. It was rather interesting.

DEAR EDITOR:

Now let me understand your position. You shout, rather loudly I must say, that you don't want any government run socialistic health care.

Let's see now, you get up in the morning and stumble into the bathroom, wash your hands and brush your teeth, and whatever else you do. Now back up a little, first thing you do is turn on that faucet and out comes that glorious government run socialistic water. Sure beats going outside with a bucket and getting water from a cistern. You can tolerate a little socialism.

Now you flush the toilet and again everything is gone into that government run socialistic sewer system. We both know that you would rather use an outhouse or just carry it out and dispose of it yourself, or maybe you can tolerate just a little more socialism.

Well it's now time to get the kids onto that big yellow government-run socialistic school bus which will take them to that government run socialistic public school. We both know that you would rather pay for your kid's transportation to a private school that you would gladly pay for. Yea, sure we know. Well we can put up with just a little more socialism.

Cont. on next post

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40Freethinker(24 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

You call your mother to see what is going on and she tells you that she and dad are going to the bank to cash that government run socialistic Social Security check that they got in yesterday's government run socialistic mail. Its tough getting by on just government run socialistic Social Security since dad lost his pension that he worked a lifetime for, in the capitalistic bankruptcy court. Health insurance and life insurance gone. They really don't like living on government-run socialistic Social Security but you haven't been able to give them the money they need. Mom has an appointment to have surgery and if you can't give her the money to cover the expense they'll have no choice but to use that darn government-run socialistic Medicare.

Well, you decide that you will go and help your parents so you get into the car and turn onto that government-run socialistic highway to get to their house. Now why didn't you just travel across your property to the neighbor's property line and negotiate payment to cross their property to the property line where you would then negotiate with that property owner to cross that property to the next - you get the idea. Maybe you can tolerate just a little more socialism.

You yell at people, rather loudly, that we have the best health care in the world and you don't want it changed.

The World Health Organization has the U.S. health care system ranked No. 37 in the world. Now I believe that we have the best health care in the world if you have the money. Fifty million people don't have the money; therefore we do not have the best in the world. The life expectancy listed by the world health organization has the U.S. at No. 24. We pay twice per capita as other countries.

Richard Cecconi Sr.

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41borylie(834 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Freethinker,The examples you give aren't enough,you want more? How much more? Where will you draw the line? Will you even draw a line?

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42Eric(196 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

A managed care company can't be sued for malpractice-the physician is the one who has to be sued. Where do you get the 15M for the number without health insurance? That is sure the lowest I've ever seen. ProAmerican, you frequently throw around facts and figures. I would appreicate it if, just for once, you would cite your sources.

Data from a 2000 WHO study has rebuffed the idea that the USA has the best health care in the world. This is based on more than just the USA's poor performance in life span and infant mortality. True, you picked one health indicator where the US does very well-breast cancer. But, Australia beats the US in treatments of both cervical and colorectal cancer. And, if a Canadian needs a liver or kidney transplant, they best stay in their own country-the success rates there by far beat the USA's.

My point here is that different countries excel in different areas. That doesn't mean one healthcare system is necessarily superior to another's. People love to compare the USA to the UK, but other countries, especially Australia, have much stronger socialized health care systems. Just because the UK has a bad system doesn't mean that all socialized healthcare systems are bad. I'm not an advocate of bringing socialized healthcare to the USA, but I also always look at other options with an open mind.

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43borylie(834 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Eric,and just because Australia has a stronger health care system,is it because they don't spend money on other social programs like we do? Therefore, having more money to spend on health care? Just asking.

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44Eric(196 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

ProAmerican, I am trying to figure out where you got your Norway income tax rate. I did some web research, and the closest I got was around 28%. Norway has a progressive system like the US, so the rate varies depending on income. In discussing tax rates it is necessary to include other taxes, such as FICA, state taxes, local tax, sales tax, etc. This is important because the money has to come from somewhere-for example, Tennessee has no state income tax, but most counties have sales tax of 9.25%. The best comparison I found is at http://ic.pressflex.com/249.pressflex... It is dated, but it does show that Norway's all inclusive rate is only a few points above the US's.

Another factor to consider is the amount of an employee's pay that is devoted to paying health insurance premiums. My employer pays a monthly health insurance premium of about $360 for every employee to United Healthcare (this is for a single person, and is after employee portions). That works out to be 10-15% of most employees' pay. If I was instead given that $360/month and paid a bit more in tax, I would probably end up with more money in my pocket. Most people don't realize how much of their compensation package is used for health coverage.

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45Freethinker(24 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

My last post was taken from another newspaper...I thought it was an interesting spin. I enjoy it when people think for themselves. We don't get too much of that here as all I read is the same material I hear on Limbaugh and Beck.

America currently ranks 37th in health care. I am not satisfied with this statistic. France currently ranks 1st. That upsets me. I know we can do better.

I am interested in ProAmerican's background. You must have a PhD and have lived in many, many countries to be such an authority on so many topics.

Eric, I truly appreciate your thoughtful posts. You do some research before sitting down to the table. Too many just ramble on with unsubstantiated, hate filled accusations and claims.

Be well, all

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46Freethinker(24 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Eric,

Evidently people are not reading your post with the understanding of what you are trying to state. As an employer, I found your last post to be rather accurate.

It may be too late in the game to secure some of the changes our Country so desparately needs. The economist Chris Martinson believes our total liabilities as a nation, as of last year, exceed $50 trillion. He stated that our economy, as we knew it, is over and a whole new economy is currently evolving.

Food for thought.

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47borylie(834 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Freethinker,I'm glad you don't charge for your thinking. Seriously,I hate to interrupt your love affair with Eric,but neither one answered my easy questions. I'm also glad you listen to Limbaugh and Beck. I think a lot of posters sound just like Olberman and Maddow,who never have a person on their shows with a different view than theirs. The listeners hear only one side of every topic. At least Rush begged to debate Obama. Back to the question of Obama's first 8 months,even this 75% democrat area is being beat in this poll by 17%. People are waking up,set your alarm.

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48andersonathan(675 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Just get real if there is a panel that will ultimately decide if you have the operation or take a pill or what ever the case may be and call it what ever you want to. Ultimately that panel of people looking at numbers in cost most likely rather than the medical records or opinion. Could be called a death panel or a life extension panel either way it is going to be out of your hands.

And next your going to tell me that his plan will not call for mandated health care?

Better yet lets stick to the LIE maybe people will not notice the rest.

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49sistersun(49 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Fact......I know Pres. Obama is doing the best he can considering the mess we've been in with bush these last eight years.Go Mr.Obama !!!!!!!!!! For some of you people,give the Man a chance.

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50Eric(196 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Quail and Freethinker, thank you for being the two people on this board who approach this topic with a clear mind.

borylie, I seem to have missed the easy question you asked. Please repost it and I will gladly answer it.

Now, ProAmerican,

"ERIC, YOU LIE! Yes the money has to come from somewhere. Do you know who provides the source of income, such as sales tax, FICA, Soc. Sec. Medicare, etc. The Tooth Fairy?"

What am I lying about? Of course the money has to come from somewhere. What do you mean?

"Your health care is partially paid for by your employer? How do you like the idea of it being taxed by the Bamster? Those lying, corrupt, socialist rulers want to tax you benefits...You people were orgasmic when you thought someone else would be robbed of their income so you couldl have a freebee."

I take great offense at you referring to me as "You people." Every day I put in an honest days' work, am loyal to my employer, and am fortunate I have a job. I'm not asking for anything for free. At least Freethinker understood the point of my previous post.

Socialism is nothing new to this country; that is the idea behind our decades-old progressive tax system. People who make more income have always devoted a higher percentage of their income to tax, because of the idea that they could afford it. As a country we need to decide what values we want to embrace. If we feel that those who have much have no responsibility for helping those who have little, let's go to a flat tax, get rid of Medicaid and subsidized housing, and let the poor fend for themselves on the street.

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51JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I am also an employer. Our benefits contribution shakes out to be 18%-23% of an employee's yearly compensation. Additionally my company has frozen employee premiums and absorbed increases at their end over the last two years. We are talking about a considerable amount of money to be certain.

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52Eric(196 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Okay, let's take a step back at the controversy surrounding John Holdren. I obtained a copy of the book he co-authored over 30 years ago and read the passages referring to forced abortions. He was describing population measures to control growth that may have been used elsewhere or discussed by commentators, including forced abortions. He never advocated or recommended them. There is a difference.

In fact, at his Senate Confirmation Hearing, Holdren REJECTED the idea of government efforts at population control (yes, including forced sterilization and abortions). Holdren may support access to abortions, but that is much different than forced abortions.

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53JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

A very tall order, Quail. A letter to Santa Claus might well sooner yield the response you are looking for.

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54Nonsocialist(710 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

The book authored by Czar Holdren is entitled,"Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment ." He has a section labeled, "Involuntary Fertility Control".

A quote from the book, "Of course, a government might require only implantation of the contraceptive capsule, leaving its removal to the individual's discretion but requiring reimplantation after childbirth."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opi...

I actually fully agree with efforts to address the overpopulating of the Earth and the catastrophic consequences that will develop. My suggestion would be to stop paying people to have babies (tax deductions, etc.) rather than forced sterilizations as advocated by Czar Holdren.

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55JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I didn't ask you any questions, pro.

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56cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Nonsocialist.....David Freddoso is a commentary staff writer giving his "opinion" or his "interpretation" about what the authors of the book meant. If Mr. Freddoso were an actual reporter he would have done an interview with Mr. Holdren.

The parts of the book cited in the "opinion" were discussions of hypotheticals. There is a difference between discussing and advocating.

Mr. Holdren has repeatedly denied ever advocating forced abortions and if Mr. Freddoso had interviewed him his column would have contained facts instead of opinions.

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57Nonsocialist(710 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Cambridge,

We're dealing with facts and direct quotes from the book authored by Czar Holdren, such as:

"It would even be possible to require pregnant single women to marry or have abortions, perhaps as an alternative to placement for adoption, depending on the society."

Note the word "require" and not "suggest". Of course he's changing his story now. He's a dishonest elitest who has ascended to the perks and privileges of the ruling class.

You're right, I cited an opinion piece. But, dude, read the text from the Czar's book and tell me with a straight face it's not wacked. Do you actually feel, as JFK refered to his appointees, that Czar Holdren is the "brightest and the best"?

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58cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Nonsocialist,

LOL! I don't believe for a second that the "brightest and the best" would involve themselves in politics Would you?

The situation with Holden is a prime example of people beating a drum about something that is a non issue because it is not or ever has been the guys point of view. Some people put their spin on it for their own agenda. If it were taken seriously it would be covered by every news agency 24/7 instead of it being covered by ProMerkin 24/7. Just my opinion.

I can go back through your posts and find a sarcastic reference, an example or scenario of a hypothetical and twist it around to say you favor Socialism or Fascism or some other kind of ism. People like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have made millions doing it.

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59Nonsocialist(710 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Cambridge,

Another sampling from Czar Holdren's work:

"There exists ample authority under which population growth could be regulated. It has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society."

When reading his very own words, I'm not seeing sarcasm or jesting. I'm seeing proposals on how to address a legitimate and real problem with wild government intrusion into individuals lives and bodies.

Don't you see that this fits with this current administrations ambitions and efforts to transfer power from the unwashed, ignorant subjects to the rulers? Do you see the word "require" mentioned more than once in my prior Holdren quotations? Do you see the parallels with the power acquisitions sought by other socialist regimes?

If you think people are stupid and uncaring, than a nanny state suits you. If you believe that people are essentially good and generous, than liberty is for you. I believe in the later.

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60cambridge(3109 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Nonsocialist....Your response is a perfect example of what I was talking about. I said "...a sarcastic reference, an example or scenario of a hypothetical....". You conveniently choose to ignore the "an example or scenario of a hypothetical" possibility and chose to spin the "sarcastic" part to suite your agenda.

You have your opinion and I have mine and that's all I have to say on the subject, but thanks for proving my point.

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61JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Re: fanaticism

pro, relatively speaking I comment a lot on this site. I've logged 720 comments. You have just over 720. What has taken me over two years has taken you under 7 months. Maybe I’m just a lazy fanatic…

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