The only people that I can think of using this is people with really old cars or SUVs. Most people's SUV's are more valueable than 4500 so why would they junk their vehicle.
It's dumb also in that you only have to up your average mileage by 2 mpg. I had a Sebring (Don't buy a Chrysler) it got decent fuel mileage about 32 highway on cruise 24 city according to the meter, Its not fair that pos didn't get on the list because I got a civic which lists at 36 highway 25 city which ups my avergae fuel mileage by over 2 mpg.
I think this program is unfair to people who were already "doing the right thing" or whatever you call it. It kinda makes me mad I didn't get the $4500 when I did buy a more environmentally friendly car, its also unfair too to the tax payers that they have to pay for someone to get a new car.
I forgot to mention my car wasn't included because it wasn't under 18 mpg. I'm kinda mad that if hey, they're giving out money why is it done so unfairly...
That car was such a junker too, I think my mom at one point started talking to a lemon law lawyer. The thing broke down all the time, I would suggest no one get a Chrysler.
"I think it's unfair to people who were already "doing the right thing" or wht ever you call it,"
"it kinda makes me mad I didn't get the $4500..."
"its also unfair too the tax payer that they have to pay for someone to get a new car."
"I'm kinda mad that if hey, they're giving out money why is it done so unfairly...."
Yeah, its really dumb but what are we going to do?
"The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
Actually, this question is misleading... Cash for Clunkers was suspended today so there isn't even a good chance you could use the program.
Dang, o well, we'll have to find another way to run up the deficit. It's like they have a dare to see how high the deficit can get.
The gimmick on this CfC program is that the dealers work off the window sticker price which gives them the maximum profit. I learned long ago that as a buyer you do your research and make YOUR OFFER based on the invoice price not the sticker. You do not automatically accept the dealers best offer.
Aside from this program, the goal of a dealer is to hit a "homerun" when it comes to your trade-in. That means to end up getting your trade for free.
Back in 99 my brother-in-law ordered a new GMC Yukon XL from a small dealer in North Carolina for $49.00 over invoice. The dealer made a nice profit with his dealer holdback check. Low overhead on his 50 year old dealership allowed him to do this deal. When you visit the multimillion dollar dealership, guess who is expected to pay for this operation????
Here is an interesting fact that was just mentioned on CNBC, majority of people using the cash for clunkers program are junking the American cars and purchasing new foreign branded cars. Sorry, Government Motors, I guess people still just don't want your vehicles.
Consider it another gift from your posterity...a generous one...an involuntary one.
The $1 billion for "cash for clunkers" was supposed to last four months, but apparently, it took only a week to exhaust the funds. So...they're still saying HR3200 (Obama"Care") is budget neutral...and I would believe them why???
How is it that these mathematically challenged parasites, who can't even get their own taxes straight, are running our country?
It's amazing to me how Omama's additional 2 billion dollar investment in jump starting the auto industry and the American economy is viewed so negatively.
2 billion dollars is the amount that the American taxpayer spent in Iraq every six days for 6 1/2 years. Obama just put a stop to that. Obama is saving America 2 billion dollars every six days by ending our wasted efforts in Iraq. Where's the love?
When Obama came into office six months ago the economy was in the tank with no light at the end of the tunnel. He made moves to stimulate the economy and the stock market and home values are on the rebound and every other economic indicator is going in the right direction. Stimulus money is now reaching communities for shovel ready projects that will stimulate the job market. At least 60 million going into the valley. Can the President get a table dance?
When did it become "Patriotic" to oppose the government doing things for the wellbeing of Americans?
andersonathan....Both my 401K account and my personal stock portfolio have gained about 20% since last quarter.
I live in a large metro area. Nine counties, 7.5 million people. The median sale price for homes has risen in all nine counties the last three months in a row.
Below is a link to an article published in the Vindy. I hope this data and real numbers help you out.
By your investment strategy you would have been bragging about a 25% monthly increase in the dow from jun to july in 1932... you've been watching too much of the cheerleading cnbc if you think that an uptick is indicative of anything in the real economy.
It sounds like where you live isn't necessarily representative of the rest of the country or the valley. From these stats there is no indication of going back to business as usual anytime soon.
I'm back this weekend in the valley, there are for sale signs everywhere.
Let's not forget there is another round of ARM resets coming. And if you were in any real trouble it would have been impossible to refinance.
So yeah maybe we aren't in a crisis like we were before but the long term trend still stays true. Right now we are in a sort of sugar rush or high because of the amount of money that has been injected into the economy to deal with liquidity shortages. Soon this high will fade.
Trust me this is the silence before the storm. The question isn't whether the financial storm will come but how long until it strikes.
Search....You said where I live isn't necessarily representative of the rest of the country. Like I said, I live in a Metro Area of 7.5 million. It's not like I'm coming up with something obscure to make a point. How many people live in the valley, 300,000? And it's been depressed for decades. There is actually another world out there. I read on this board how people are lined up for a $7.00 an hour job. Why they just don't leave escapes me. Don't think what happens there happens everywhere.
Today I received a monthly news letter for my union which I haven't worked in the field for 15 years. I don't know exactly what they make on their check besides benefits but I know journeymen are over $40 an hour, foreman another 10%, general foreman another 20% and senior general foreman another 30%, all before the new contract they just signed. Below is an excerpt from the news letter.
"At the July membership meeting, the negotiation committee presented to the membership the terms of the new Master Labor Agreement for their consideration and ratification. After discussion, the new contract was ratified unanimously.WAGES: $11.25 per hour increase over a 3 year period ($3.75 a year for 3 years).PREMIUM PAY FOR ALLOY WELDERS: Manually tested alloy welders will receive a 3% increase to 8% above journeyman scale every day they are welding alloy pipe or using Diametric type industrial welding machine.The Negotiating Committee also recommended that this years raise be allocated with $1,25 per hour going directly on the check, $2.00 to pension, $.25 to Local Union Training and $.25 to dues for market recovery."
Like I said, there's another world out there.
andersonathan....It is so typical of people on this board to ask someone to back something up with facts or data. Then when you do they respond with speculation. Yes it says that but this is what it means or this is what will happen. I don't give opinions from some clowns web site or from Glenn Becks delusions,
My data is from the New York Stock Exchange, the real estate section of the San Francisco Chronicle and the monthly news letter from my union. Do me a favor, if you ask me for data and I supply it don't interpret it to suit your point of view. Either take it for face value, it says what it says, or provide data that proves what I supplied was wrong. Not some blog BS or Fix Noise opinion. Data from the same type sources I use.
The economy is either going up, going down or is flat. I'll stand by what I said in post #13.
The government has realized that people like handouts. People are not buying "extra" cars. This program does not increase the number of cars that Americans will own. What it does do is increase consumer debt, take used, functioning and affordable cars out of circulation that low income earners could have purchased. It is a handout that has increased the national debt. It is reducing the number of automobiles that would have needed to be purchased in the future at full price (ie, it will hurt future car sales). And only the dishonest government has the audacity to call it a success.
From the Cato Institute:
"This is not good for economic growth," said Dan Mitchell, a senior fellow in economics at the Cato Institute. "You're simply getting people to use existing income to spend on cars. Getting people to spend more of their money on cars mean they will have less money to spend on other things."
Economic growth, Mitchell argued, is not getting people to spend more money on products, it's getting them to have more income. Mitchell also believes the program is counterproductive for the auto industry down the road because the acceleration in car purchases will precede a "big downturn in the future."
"Giving someone a shot of heroin is not good for their long term health."
The program, Mitchell added, shows that the government is "incompetent."
Gosh, imagine what will happen after the program ends in November... no one is going to be buying cars again.... yet another government created bubble. Hmm... well since everyone who was going to purchase a car in the next 3 years did it now if they could, you could assume that the quantity of cars demanded will yet again tank and cause job loss. O well, let's continue to believe in the fallacy keynes created again and throw reason out the window.
The interesting part of this whole experiment is that if you shop at a Chrysler or GM dealership the clunker was actually the car you purchased, not the one you traded in.
Very well said Search, I agree with the bubble comment 100%. Let market forces work naturally, and if people don't buy cars then the manufacturers need to reduce their prices or come up with better incentives. This Government spending needs to stop, it's careless and reckless and is not working.
By the way I was watching a little bit of the Buick open yesterday, and noticed how they were advertising the newly redesigned 2010 Buick Lacross. I was shocked to hear they want $27,000 for a base model! Do they really think they are going to get that??? Hell, you can buy an Accord Sedan for 2 grand more and have it fully loaded and it will hold it's value. A loaded Buick Lacross would be low 40's. What is GM thinking? It's a sharp car but it's not a Mercedes!
Wow talk about completely taking what I was saying out of context. Thank you for your straw man argument. I did not literally mean no one would buy a vehicle for the next 3 years, I meant that instead of the typical demand we would have it has been shifted toward today and an artifical bubble of demand has been created... Much like the housing bubble.
I was also under the impression the cash for clunkers program was to help the environment, it has to be because it isn't helping the economy by creating demand bubbles. Of course my assumption is based upon the reality that the government will not subsidize car purchases indefinitely.
Also, I'm not a neocon but thank you for showing that you can make ignorant claims about people. You would have been right had you called me a libertarian or a ron paul republican... huge difference, I dislike the neocon republicans as much as progressive liberal democrats.
I believe the program is a program to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. I believe it also a program to help car companies reduce their inventory. They all had inventory they didn't know what to do with.
When that inventory is reduced production will be stepped up to replace it. That puts auto workers to work. They spend money on goods and that inventory is reduced. Production for those goods picks up and people are put to work.
As far as what car companies are selling the most cars under this program, If the are made in America I don't care if they are Honda or whatever if it puts Americans to work.
Some people would make you believe that this program will cause the planets to collide, the sun to explode and civilization as we know it to cease to exist. I'm not buying that.
Cambridge, I agree with you this program isn't really causing planets to collide. In the whole scope of the economy this has very little real effect positive or negative on people's lives. $3 billion is nothing campared to obama and W. deficits. I'm arguing on principle.
Cambridge brings up a good point about clearing inventories. However, the free market can clear inventories by itself, the price on those vehicles would have gone down and the free market would have cleared those imbalances. This is basically a subsidy to carmakers, I can't say I agree with subsidies though. I'm no fan of GM but it's really unfair to them as the purchases are going more towards ford and other automakers.
This does create a mini bubble since people will purchase their cars earlier and disrupt the normal demand level throughout the next couple months and year. We also are now causing disruptions in the used car market and parts market.
Let's not forget though that we are destroying vehicles that do have economic value.
The "Repo Man" is coming. The only people that have a vehicle that is worth "clunking in", do not have enough money to pay for the cars. Sooner or later they will be backing up the tow trucks in driveways and the banks will be the owners of the new cars. The lower class and the lower middle class need to see some other way of a stimulus. Let's see through the smokescreen and give back to Americans real money that can be spent. Let's go Obama people voted for you to make change, not to pull the wool over our eyes with such a gimmick.
Damn straight this was a good program!!!
i really wonder about some of you. why would uou want a company to fail, that we as taxpayers own the majority? the feds have already given billions to gm and chrysler. it was our tax money. it's a done deal.
now i would hope that gm and chrysler become the most profitable companies in the world. be nice to get our money back with a profit
government owned/operated companies have never been successful or profitable in the long run. Think Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, gosh and all those great vehicles that came out of the soviet union.
Now you think we are obligated to support this failure because the government takes money out of our hands and wastes it on failures. Do you really believe GM is going to be innovating? The reason it failed was because it failed to innovate.
Search, Geez, can you give it a break already? Just admit that you are the weird dude on the Preston commercials. We GET IT! You LOVE honda. Even though they just recalled 440,000 cars for defective airbags that are KILLING people. Doesn't sound very innovative to me. Is this where the worlds collide? I used to enjoy reading the comments. So many folks like TheQuail, Stan, cambridge, and others actually put thought into their comments. It makes it so much more enjoyable for the reader. You, on the other hand, are a DB that kind of ruins the intent of the comment section by trying to come off as an intellectual. Haven't you noticed that most people ignore your comments, have no interest in engaging you, and basically ignore you? It is SO obvious that you are a honda salesman. Please stop ruining the comment section for casual readers. MAN, what a DB. Do yourself a favor, take you life partner for a drive in you civic and leave the comment pages alone for a while. Now THAT, would be innovative
Cash for Clunkers = Japanese Economic Stimulus
The Department of Transportation reports that the ten leading trade-ins are all American branded cars while six of the top ten new cars purchased - and four of the top five - are foreign.
DOT reports that the following are the ten top trade-ins, all American:
Ten Top Trade-Ins Under Cash for Clunkers
1. Ford Explorer2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4 WD4. Jeep Cherokee 4 WD5. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan6. Chevrolet Blazer 4 WD7. Ford Explorer 2 WD8. Ford F150 Pickup 4 WD9. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2 WD10. Ford Windstar FWD Van
And the top ten new car purchases, subsidized by the American taxpayer, are mainly foreign vehicles:
Top Ten New Car Purchases: Cash for Clunkers
1. Toyota Corolla2. Ford Focus FWD3. Honda Civic4. Toyota Prius5. Toyota Camry6. Ford Escape FWD7. Hyndai Elantra8. Dodge Caliber9. Honda Fit10. Chevrolet Cobalt
And you want the government to manage your healthcare?
This whole thing is a farce anyway. My husband and I were almost hustled by an Austintown dealer who informed us that they were not honoring the program temporarily (fraud!). Then, he tried to sell us a small 2003 Dodge Dakota for $12,000 with a $1,000 trade in. Now we are not doing it at all. Shame on them. I hope their Chevy dealership goes belly up!
I thought Greenwood would be a little bit better than that. I wouldn't put it passed Chuck Eddy across the street though.I guess there's a reason car salesman have the reputation they do.
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