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« Polls
Do you believe the president and Congress will be able to reform health care?
| Choice | Percent | Visual | Votes |
|---|---|---|---|
| Yes | 27% | 170 | |
| No | 72% | 454 | |
| 624 total votes | |||
cambridge (916 comments)posted 3 months, 28 days agoYou make me laugh. :- )
Freethinker (24 comments)posted 3 months, 28 days ago Would someone post the section of the Health Care Bill that mandates we join a Government Run Program. As I read it..I can maintain my current insurance, and nothing changes, or there will be a new policy available, at a lesser cost, for those that cannot afford private insurance. The new insurance still requires a premium be paid if you want to enrol. Those that qualify as poor or indigent would receive a subsidy...probably like medi-care or medicaid. I believe those programs are readily available now so I fail to see the cliff that many say we are headed towards.
None will receive proper health care if the hospitals keep closing because they do not receive payment for their services.
Those most afraid of the change are the current insurance providers that will no longer collect windfall profits at the average persons expense.
Just capping malpractice lawsuits will not solve the problem but it will help in the final goal.
With our Country 37th in quality of Health Care I would take pride in moving up the list rather than down.
TheQuail (125 comments)posted 3 months, 28 days ago ProMerkin,
At least try to take a stab at accuracy here. SOME unions have taken a position on the topic, others have not. I know for a fact that the IBEW has not and the CWA has not.
Also, why do you only highlight unions? Do you forget that dubya hisself and many true conservatives also supported an amnesty program?
And here's the coolest thing of all: We are probably going to see some type of nationalized health care program, and guess what . . . you ARE going to help pay for it, whether you like it or not. And there is not a darn thing you can do about it. You finally will get experience how we felt, when dubya and his thugs dragged this country into a war on his search from imaginary WMDs.
At least I agree with you on something: the left DOES deserve a national health care program. And we get to make you neo-coms help pay for it! Isn't that awesome?!?! After eight years of dubya, life is so good.
The Quail
ProAmerican (1059 comments)posted 3 months, 28 days ago Q'ill, Bush was no conservative. Neither the the GOPers who voted against illegal immigration. I said it before, neo cons are not conservatives; they're libs on steroids. National health care is inferior to the American health care system. Remember, the leftos who are promoting it in DC will not be covered by the same universal health care you love so much. Socialism s..ks. Why do you weaklings want to sacrifice freedom for security; the result is losing both.
Freethinker, please read the bill; there are stipulations in it requiring you to accept national "health" insurance.
Freethinker (24 comments)posted 3 months, 27 days ago ProAmerican...I have read through the bill and failed to see the stipulation you referenced. I understood it to say I can maintain my current coverage. The version I read did say everyone must secure some sort of insurance...but I do not know if that has been revised.
Thanks for the heads up. I have enjoyed the debate between you and Quail.
Nonsocialist (349 comments)posted 3 months, 27 days ago Freethinker,
Wow. I'm impressed. You read the 13 pound, >1000 page HR3200?! Not even the legislators have read it. Maybe after yet another rebuke by the nonpartisan CBO, the moniker, "America's Affordable Health Choice's Act" should be changed to "We're tripling the debt in 10 years Act" or "Let's make people not yet born pay for our stuff Act."
Regarding keeping your existing insurance, it clear by now that this administration likes Federalizing stuff. They likely (obviously it is not written in the bill) will undercut private insurers until they too are consumed by the government (ala GM, banks, etc).
In fact, a July 17 study by the Lewin Group that was commissioned by the Heritage Foundation projects that if the House bill becomes law, 83.4 million people—nearly half of those with private coverage—will lose private insurance as employers drop their plans. Personally, I've heard some people who've already been informed by their employers that they would be switched to the cheaper Federal plan from their current private insurance.
ProAmerican (1059 comments)posted 3 months, 26 days ago Freethinker, There is a caveat which can mandate anyone who have a private insurance plan to have to accept the government's national health insurance dictatorship. I enjoy debating with Quail as well but I'm sure he doesn't because I manage to bloody him up every time, lol. Thank you for your input; all of us must be very careful of losing our liberities by being too eager to accept the Bamster's false security. We risk losing both.
andersonathan (385 comments)posted 3 months, 26 days ago 80% of Americans oppose giving free health care to illegal aliens and it is time that the Congress supports the will of the people!
Section 242 of the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 prohibits "undocumented aliens" from receiving health care, but does not prescribe a method for preventing illegal aliens from receiving health care.
Please require each recipient of the affordability credit created under the bill to also have their eligibility verified by the Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) systems. This would ensure that illegal aliens who buy private insurance could not receive taxpayer-funded handouts to help offset (or, perhaps, completely pay for) the cost of their insurance premiums.
Freethinker (24 comments)posted 3 months, 26 days ago Nonsocialist,
The bill is nearly 1,500 pages but is in constant revision. It is still a moving target. I'll reserve final comment until I see what is truly being voted on.
As stated before...both sides of the aisle are corrupt and the highest bidder will have the larger say in the final draft.
I do not see socialism at work as I have not recognized much difference between the previous administration and the current one. I have no problem with forcing the health care insurers into a more competitive arena. I just do not want anyone to have to compete against business funded by their own money. i.e. tax dollars.
As many corporations avoid taxes by forming off shore holding companies then they do not receive much sympathy from me. Bring on the free market and the best product for the dollar will survive and prosper.
FT
TheQuail (125 comments)posted 3 months, 26 days ago ProMerkin,
Yeah, you have left me bloodied and battered, but I'll soldier on. I know that I have no hope of ever debating adequately with someone who possesses your rhetorical prowess and finely-crafted arsenal of challenging aguments. Every time I try, I fall into the nasty habit of trying to use logic and truth against someone who makes up "facts," flip-flops consistently in his arguments, and refuses to answer questions.
However, I'll try yet once again. Except this time, I'll try to answer the Vindy's question using your rhetorical style:
I believe that Obama will give us all health care for free and the Office of the DEosp and the minister of RESS has determined that the new program will not only eradicate all disease, but will make is all millionaires by October. Also, the religious elements in this country have determined that Obama is indeed, god. Also health care will happen because all the right wing cons want to kill all doctors who mention the word abortion, and I have ninety-two internet URLs that prove I'm right. Also, Hitler is alive and the Nazi's are poised to take over the country and the world will end in 2012 because the radical conservative Mayans said so. And not only that, all conservative satan worshipers are nothing but big losers.
Wow, writing complete and utter BS is exhausting! ProMerkin: How ever do you do it? You must be in great shape!
Regards,
The Quail
ProAmerican (1059 comments)posted 3 months, 26 days ago Q' ill, are you deaf and blind; I know you're dumb. Of course you lack the guts and drive to be responsible so you want the government to provide health care for you. Isn't it YOUR responsibility to pay your bills, not the god government you worship. Health insurance should be a priority for all Americans, not sex, drugs, rock n roll, rv's, boats, jet skis, vacations in Las Vegas, etc. Yes, there are those who are uninsurable so let's address catastropic coverage. Do you like denying seniors decent care because of their age, give 'em a pain pill, that's Caesar Obama's solution but wants to cover illegals? Murdering abortion docs is immoral. Didn't Tiller the Baby Killer murder 60,000 babies, oh I'm sorry, they are fetuses. Communism and Nazism and radical Islam feeds on death. Take a break, get down on both knees and worship your gods, mother earth.
TheQuail (125 comments)posted 3 months, 25 days ago Darn ProMerkin. Ya got me again!
You have got to be one of the most astute, logical, intelligent neo-con whackos I believe I've ever encountered. I'll never be able to match your level of rhetorical eptitude. (Thanks for that, mother earth!)
No wonder the dems were able to gain control of the presidency and congress so easily.
I'm going out of town for a few days. Have a great weekend all.
The Quail
ProAmerican (1059 comments)posted 3 months, 25 days ago Q'ill. I'm not neo-con you socialist fool. Where are you going for the weekend, Cuba for a checkup because they have superior healthcare? The Dems won the presidency and congress because the GOP is just another socialist joke too.
ProAmerican (1059 comments)posted 2 months, 9 days ago Cambilge, lol, you stated the VA clinics should be closed b/c our veterans should be allowed to choose their own doctors. Welcome to the conservative position. Welcome home.
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Comments
I believe the insurance companies are to powerful to let it happen and along with Rupert Murdoch and his talking heads pumping up the propaganda, health care in this country will keep going in the direction it's going in now.
There is always hope , never give up to the RUSH ,BECK ,TEABAGING , FOX hate machine.
Cambridge, insurance companies to powerful,lol, it's too powerful.
Hope4thevalley, Obamacare is national destrution of insurance. The hatred is generated by you socialists. National Health Insurance is a no-brainer for losers with no brains.
They can't even run the government which has had a deficit since forever and now they wnat to take over the insurance business. No way. We need to find a better solution but twisting peoples arms into insurance is not the answer.
Sounds like right wing hate to me . JUST SAY NO AND YES TO RUSH , BECK and FOX
What a bunch of kool-aid drinkers and tea baggers
Paulydel....We haven't always had a deficit. Clinton had a 2 trillion dollar surplus. Bush squandered it and doubled the debt.
The government doesn't want to take over the insurance business. They want to give an option compared two what we have now.
http://answers.google.com/answers/thread...
We don't need the Socialist plan that is proposed. Why don't you hear anything of tort reform for starters? It's because the Trial Lawyers Association is one of the largests campaign contributers to Obama. How many commercials a day to you see on TV from ambulance chasing lawyers? If you think the government can do anything more efficiently than the private sector, you're from some other planet. BTW, the number of Americans without health insurance is NOT 47 million as Obama likes to say. It is closer to 25 million, since the rest are illegals and shouldn't be here anyway but still get treated. Why does Obama want to ram this through so fast? It's because if more Congressmen actually read it, as well as the population, they will understand that this is a bad plan and puts on the road to the same terrible systems that Canada and the UK have. I have cousins that live in St. Catherine's and North Bay, Ontario. They hate their health care, wait months for care, can't get seen for weeks and months even when seriously sick. They suck up the costs and are happy to come to the US in Buffalo, NY to get care. Wake up folks. Aside from the wool he pulled over everyone's eyes on election day, Obamamama is pulling another Socialist operation on health care.
If "reform" is a euphemism for destroy, then my answer is yes.
If "reform" means improve, then my answer is no.
This is not complicated. Socialized medicine has failed everywhere, including already in the USA. It will result in delays and denials in care...it always does. It is a transfer of resources from the elderly to illegal aliens and younger citizens.
Rather than drop yet another socialist atomic bomb on the citizens of the USA, we could do something less radical like tort reform, improved ED admission screening, and free market reforms.
I hope they can get a quality system passed, but I remain doubtful. There are far too many "big money" players with a stake in the game. For example, the pharmaceutical companies have already spent 40 million lobbying their case. And their success so far is indicated by the lack of mechanisms to reduce the cost of drugs in any of the plans.
These companies are building on the success they enjoyed when they told dubya to push through their 450 million drug plan a few years back. He, in his well-honed role as lapdog for big business, aquiesced without a whimper.
Is there any reason to think things have changed enough to get a good bill through? I doesn't look like it. Big money still carries big clout.
BTW: It's good to see that the anti-socialists are back touting their belief that this dead philosophy is once again threatening to bring down society as we know it. I've missed you guys, but I've remained vigilant.
The Quail
Hope4thevalley, hatred is ripping an unborn baby (you libs called it a fetus) from it's mother's womb for a few dirty dollars; and you expect us to pay for the agony. Talk about mean spirited, you socialists are the champions.
Quail,
I remain optimistic that this bill will and should pass, I think both sides realize this. But only with modifications, and because of this, I'm glad it was not rushed through. I'm not one for mixing Health Care Bureaucracy with Government Bureaucracy, Health care Bureaucracy is bad enough let alone the latter.
I do believe we need to reduce the cost of health care and agree with Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele's belief that insurance companies should be allowed to compete across state lines and allow the free market forces to cut costs for Americans.
Remember a few years back when Americans were buying their prescription medicine from Canadian Pharmacies at a lower cost. That's because Americans were buying prescription drugs at American market prices, not global market prices. And, the Drug Companies expect Americans to bear the brunt of Research and Development while other Countries reap the benefits of lower prescription costs and our Government backs them up due to their strong lobbies and influence.
Have a great weekend
Quail, do you remember how thousands of Canadians who are unhappy and fearful of their socialized health care flock to America to save their lives? Yes, Canadians enjoy lower drug prices but can pay as much as 22% sales tax depending where they live. Of course you socialists love high taxes as long as someone else pays them, i.e. the "rich".
ProMerkin,
You are referring to a few "one off" situations publicized by those who are against a U.S. health plan. In reality, higher %'s of Canadians and British citizens are very satisfied with their health care.
I personally have relatives who live near Toronto, and they are pretty satisfied with what they have. There are occasional waits, but nothing like you see on those scare tactic commercials.
I work for a company with an office in Great Britain. I've asked several of my associates there about their plan, and they are all pretty satisfied too.
The below is from a 2003 Gallup Poll. I am reluctant to accept the results of just one poll, but the majority of the studies that I've seen echo these results.
"According many polls, higher percentages of Canadians and the British citizens are satisfied
The Availability of Affordable Healthcare
One-fourth of American respondents are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," (6% very satisfied and 19% somewhat satisfied). This level of satisfaction is significantly lower than in Canada, where 57% are satisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, including 16% who are very satisfied. Roughly 4 in 10 Britons are satisfied (43%), but only 7% say they are very satisfied (similar to the percentage very satisfied in the United States).
Looking at the other side of the coin, 44% of Americans are very dissatisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, and nearly three-fourths (72%) are either somewhat or very dissatisfied. The 44% in the United States who are very dissatisfied with healthcare availability is significantly higher than corresponding figures in either Canada (17%) or Great Britain (25%)."
ProMerkin, this is an important issue. It would be better for all of us if you would check into the truth before making up your mind, rather than just spouting the usual "anti-lib" party line. But . . . I guess if you actually did that, I wouldn't be able to call you a neo-con anymore, now would I?
The Quail
Qu,ill, I'm satisified with my health insurance; I pay my own premiums. I can afford to because I'm mature and planned ahead. Not like the socialists who want someone else to bear their burden. The Canadians also can pay for private health treatment. Don't bore me with the Brits satisfaction with their national health care. Europeans are idiots who like no brainer solutions and don't mind being slaves to bid daddy government. We can enjoy lower premiums if the free market prevailed. You said so, remember. Insurance companies should have to compete against eachother in all 50 states. Individuals should be permitted to form groups for lower group rates. The reason we can't, government regulations. Let the free market prevail, I agree with you because you stated Canadians can purchase drugs at a more competitve price, the reason the world free market. For your information, I'm not a neo-con. A neo-con is a lib on steroids. I'M A CONSERVATIVE!
PORAmerican You are so blinded be the hood on you head that you can not see. First place there is nothing in the bill at this time about abortion. Next it is the law of the land .( only Bush does not have to follow the law) And I'm totally opposed it in any form . Next I'm 70 years old and have and still do pay for my health Insurance. But that does not mean that I'm against helping out others . I have seen Right Winger like you all my life and it is always the same . I got mine so the *ell with everybody else . Will that is not what my America is about. I have worked hard all my life and I do not know for sure but I most likely could buy and sell you . But that does not give me the right to put you or anybody else down .
ONLY RUSH , BECK ,( your gods) and the teabaggers do that.
I Sure hope you never need the hand someday but if you do come down to the soup kitchen any day and I will give you a meal a prayer and a smile
Here is an earlier quote from ProMerkin
"There would be NO America without white Europeans. Do you seriously believe America would have materialized through the efforts of "native Americans? Impossible. White Europeans created a much better world than anyone else could have imagined."
Here's today's quote from ProMerkin:
"Europeans are idiots who like no brainer solutions and don't mind being slaves to bid daddy government."
This poor soul has been tossing mindless rhetoric so long he's even confusing himself!
I especially love this line: "Let the free market prevail, I agree with you because you stated Canadians can purchase drugs at a more competitve price, the reason the world free market [sic]."
My response: WHAT??
I am so happy we still have free speech in this country. It allows individuals such as this todemonstrate their ignorance and hypocrisy for all the world to see.
Have a great weekend all!
The Quail
philobeto.....The R&D argument by drug companies is just more of their propaganda. R&D is a fraction of their expense compared 2 what they spend on marketing and now more propaganda to defeat health care reform. The links below are worth the read.
Below is a link how the United States health care system is ranked by the "World Health Organisation" compared with other countries. We are ranked 37th. Just below Cost Rica and just above Slovenia while we pay twice as much as anyone else for health care to achieve that ranking.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthra...
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17244
Dope4thevalley, your socialist slaveowners didn't even read the bill. How do you know abortions aren't going to be paid for by the taxpayers? I'm opposed to the KKK so I don't wear a hood. You're just an old socialist who fears the truth like the devil fears Holy Water! Yes, Europeans are tax slave idiots kneeling to thier big government god, just like you. You can buy and sell me? Great, then you can be taxed so I can have free Omamacare. It takes brains and guts to be a capitalist. You lack both,
Q'ill; and natives are even bigger idiots than white eurupeans. Are you a native?
Por you are so full of BS that it is stupid the even keep this up . It is like taking to a six year old.
And yes I did what I could . I do not get my ideas from Rush and Beck. YOU ARE a teabagger.
So crawl back into your Right Wing hole and suck you thumb . We will pipe in Rush so you can listen to your GOD
ProMerkin.....EVERY western European nation and the idiots you claim that live there live in countries who's health care is ranked above ours by the "World Health Organisation".
Instead of going on your rants, "the socialist are coming the socialist are coming", why don't you look at the real facts regarding the state of health care in this country. Your only answer is to call people names and blab, "I pay my own health care." So what that's not the point, my health care is provided by my union. When I worked through the union I paid for the health care of the retired, When I retired, they pay for mine. If an option that is cheaper is maid available they can take part of what they pay for theirs and my health care and put it on their paycheck. That money can be spent and will stimulate the economy instead of adding to the hundreds of billions going to the insurance and drug companies.
For all of you that think this option will be a failure, then let it fail. If the plan will be so much worse than what is out there now no one will choose it and it will go away. Why do you think the insurance and drug companies are spending millions to make sure this option isn't available? Wake up.
Cambridge, you're health care isn't provided by your union; it's provided by your employer's customers. You believe WHO, lol, I've have some ocean front property to sell to you cheap in Iowa. When drug addicted, alcholic, lady murder Ted Kennedy need treatment for his "brain" cancer, did he go to Cuba or Europe? Do you think our elected officials will be getting Obama Care they want for us? You talk about the stimulus package; the Bamster gave all of it to big corporations anyway. Of course, the government makes $.11 per gallon of gasoline and the oil companies make only $.08/gal. Oil companies must also do R & D. pay employees, etc. The government does nothing for it's cut but tax the oil companies and the consumer.
Dope4thevalley, You socialists are nothing more than present day Torries. Yes, I'm a tax protester, just like the origional patriots. My God is in Heaven, not Rush. You socialists are terrified you may lose your national nipple to suck on; that's why you're so mean spirited and hateful. Gutless parasites! I bet you're a die heart liberal Democrat, like the majority of the Mahoning Valley feudel inmates. What have they done for you peons but make and break every promise they ever made? Where is the Pentagon Office Clinton promised? They're laughing at you; all they have to do is make a token visit and you fools swoon all over yourselves. Are you a retired public school teach or labor union official?
ProMerkin.....All your ProNazi rants just prove how ignorant you are. First of all I worked as a construction worker for two thirds of my carrier and in design and engineering for the last third. When I worked in the union, the union negotiated a total wage package, the contractors association had no say in how that money was divided up. What went to wages, pension, health care, apprentice training etc. was decided on by the union. The union officials presented the membership with recommendations on how to split up the money at union meetings. The membership discussed how the package would be split up and a final vote was the final wage package.
As far as your lol at the World Health Organisation maybe you could provide some proof from one of you Nazi web sites that proves that the United States is not ranked 37th in the world in health care. You could always quote your God Rupert Murdoch the leader of the Republican Nazi party.
From CBS.com:
Congressional Budget Office Director Doug Elmendorf told the Senate Budget Committee that none of the bills he has seen would contain health care costs to reduce them significantly over time. This is the main argument offered by Obama and Democrats as to why Congress can spend $1 trillion and save money.
“In the legislation that has been reported we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount,” Elmendorf said.
“And on the contrary, the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs.”
The NHS is scheduled to go bankrupt in 2 years, and that's after denying chemo to women with stage 4 breast cancer. And yet, posters here want the NHS model adopted here.
Does 1+1 not equal 2 to everybody?
Oh that's right, Obama promises that it will be budget neutral. How's his honesty track record thus far? (No jobs for lobbyists, earmark reform, no tax increases on the bottom 95%,"sunlight before signing", transparancy, Out of Iraq in 16 mos...I'm tired so I'm gonna move on...)
Why does the bill reported out by Rep. Charlie Rangel's Ways and Means Committee leaves $550 billion unfunded?
All of the facts and experience with government-run health care indicate that it won't work, and only rhetoric and promises claims it will.
I'm pro nazi? NAZI (NATIONAL SOCIALIST). The Nazi Party was a lefto labor union, racist, thugs who broke legs, tortured, murdered Christians, other socialists and communists, homosexuals and prohibited free speech. The American worker doesn't want to be unionized, especially by force; that's why unions resort to underhanded Mafia and communist tactics like card check. Look what they are doing to Henry Nemenz. costing hard working Americans their jobs while denying his customers from making a free choice to shop where they choose. Socialists and Nazis are brothers in arm and both are freedom haters.
I can prove the USA is first in health care in the world, you lied about that to.Patients come from around the world for treatment in American hospitals by our physicians and surgeons. Ever hear of the Cleveland Clinic or the Mayo Hospital? How about Johns Hopkins? Your hero Fidel Castro, the white racist murder would have loved to have treatment in Miami if he could because Cuba's nation healt care s..ks and both of you know it.Surely you don't believe Michael Moore's lefto movie SICKO? Then again maybe your do since you're so gullable.
How much did your Mafia owned union president "earn" last year from your membership dues. Unions are liar businesses pretending to be anti-business and anti- capitalistic but they love profit too. They are the only businesses forcing consumers to buy what they're selling at what they want us to pay. Why shouldn't businesses seek the best deal for the buck without being terrorized into paying a union what it dictates? Don't like you boss or the wages he paying you? Seek work elsewhere. It's a free country. Of course you Nazis and socialists hate freedom and responsibility, you'd prefer having a dictator tell you what to do.
ProMerkin.....More Republican-Nazi Party BS. It's all you have. Whether people choose to belong to a union or not isn't yours or anyone else's business. The President of my union is an unpaid position. The business agents are paid journeyman wages and the business manager is paid foreman's wages.
The Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic and John Hopkins are the models for Obama's reform on health care. The doctors that work there are employees not business men. They do their job. They are aloud to be doctors. That system is so far removed from the experience of the average American it's not funny. Your just to stupid and blinded by your Fascist beliefs taught to you by your Nazi leader Rupert Murdoch to get it.
All of you Fascist hate freedom and don't want the American people to have an option for their health care other than to get ripped off by by the insurance and drug companies that have all your Republican-Nazi Party politicians in their pockets.
The Cambridge Quail likes to soft shoe to the exhilarating beat of the BamaRap AKA Socialist Shuffle .
Stan the Man Unusual.....I'm sure you prefer the Goose Step AKA The Republican-Nazi Party Polka.
CAMBRIDGE Let it go, these guys are so far down the food chain that is not funny or fair the argue with them . It is like taking to a spoiled 6 year old . All they can is call names. and repeat the Rush , Beck talking points . No thoughts of there own
One two step on who ? In your realm of political correctness it would be impolite for me to criticize your leader .
Would it be OK to post his picture ?
http://www.patriotscreed.com/sitebuilder...
hope4thevalley :
I see that you have been to CambridgeQuails writing class !
"All they can is call names."
Stan the Man Unusual.....Please feel free to post my username next to Quails anytime. I consider it a complement.
Hope....I hear what you are saying but I'm not arguing with them. I'm having fun making a point and showing them how redulous their posts and narrow minded point of view is. There is always that possibility of them seeing what they sound like and actually try to have some intelligent duologue
without rants and name calling. I respect you and I hope you can see what the spirit of my post to these nut jobs is really all about.
canbridge I do and some times it is fun but it is also pathetic that there are people so narrow and closed minded.
Cambridge, this is how the Bamster treats the elderly when they are sick. Give 'em a pain pill. Just like a socialist nazi. The docs at the Mayo Clinic are employees, who owns the hospital, the union? Business people do and they created the doctors' job and provide the best health care. Go to a Cuban or British hospital and you can have the same great health care Obama is offering you. Aren't you ashamed to lie to us and yourself like you do; of course you socialist nazi dems will implement any means necessary because your main objective is death.
ProMerkin.....Although you Fascist are against it, if we had a British health plan our health care ranking would go from 37th in the world to 18th. It's to bad you and the rest of the Nazi's would rather see Americans hard earned money go to insurance and drug companies than keep it themselves. But you need to stay in the herd and follow you shepard Rupert.
It seems another Nazi quality is to never post without mentioning unions. You know I have a golfing buddy that belonged to my union. When he retired he took his 401K money to a broker other than the one provided by the union. They invested his money and I left mine with the unions investment broker. My 401K has out performed his every quarter every year. But wait there's more. His fee is based on his original investment. 1%. That's $1,000 for every $100,000. He is paying thousands every year for worse management. Because my union is pooled with others and hundreds of millions are involved they negotiated a rate to manage our accounts. We pay $25 a quarter. That's $100 a year. He is considering buying a vacation home in the Sierra Mountains. Even if he took most of his money out he is still on the hook for that thousands a year based on his original investment. If we both lived another 30 years I would pay $3,000 to manage my account and his bill would approach $100,000.
I'm sure it upsets you and the rest of the Nazis that my union gives me the freedom to keep my money and not turn it over to some investment house but all you Fascist are against freedom anyway. I didn't belong to a union because i needed to, I belonged to one because I was smart enough to take advantage to what they had to offer. They turned out to be the foundation the made me very well off by anyone's standards. What have your Fascist done for you?
A statement from the Mayo Clinic re: Obamacare:
"Under the current Medicare system, a majority of doctors and hospitals that care for Medicare patients are paid substantially less than it costs to treat them. Many providers are therefore already approaching a point where they can not afford to see Medicare patients. Expansion of a Medicare-type plan without a method to define, measure, and pay for healthy outcomes for patients will move many doctors and hospitals across this threshold, and ultimately hurt the patients who seek our care. We should not put more Americans into the current unsustainable system."
Even though some health care providers are employees now doesn't mean that Obamacare would work. When he cuts providers' incomes, less providers will be available to service patients. Like Canada et al, delays in care will increase. Not rocket science. This is not new ground we're trailblazing...it's been done and failed every time.
Health Care, Cap and Trade hope it all goes down in a ball of flames. So get a job and get a life. And if that don't work get 2 jobs.
Cambridge, how do you feel about unions promoting ammesty for illegal aliens? Your union allwos you to keep your money; it wants to tax you into a true socialist state. 401s are a free enterprise creation, not like Social Insecurity which is bankrupt. Unions don't want to free you from SS because you can do much better with a private pension plan. You think you are getting over on you boss because he's paying half your SS taxes? Think again, he just adds it to his cost of doing business. Keep calling me a fascist, I'm not depriving anyone of their sacred right to a secret ballot like you union thug NAZIS! I'll ask you again, how much did your Mafia controlled union president "earn" last year from the dues you idiots paid? Even if a majority of your members wanted to de-certify, you'd probably get beaten up or have your car vandalized. What do you expect from the Mafia, socialists, nazis and communists liars?
ProMerkin.....I answered your question regarding what the president of my union makes in post 27. I guess your so blinded by your Fascist propaganda you missed it. The president of my union runs the meetings and serves on committees. He is not paid by the union. He works in the field like everyone else. The only people paid by my union are office workers who belong to their own union, three business agents that make journeyman wages and the business manager that makes foreman's wages. My union has nothing to do with organized crime. Any member can walk in anytime with an accountant and lawyer and demand to see the books.
I didn't know my union promoted amnesty for illegal aliens and wants to tax me. Since you mentioned it, I do have a private pension along with a 401K which is part of the wage package my union negotiates. You seem to think you know a lot about my union but so far everything you have said is incorrect. I don't think your Nazi leader Rupert Murdoch is a very reliable source of information.
As far as decertifying the union, why would anyone want to do that? That would be pretty stupid. Anyone that wants to quit the union is free to leave anytime they want. If you wanted to stay in the business of building oil refineries, power plants, cross country pipelines, micro electronic and bio pharmaceutical fabs those jobs are all union. You could always work for a non union maintenance contractor in those facilities for half the money and no pension or health benefits. I know you Nazis hate the fact that we Americans are free to belong to unions but you'll just have to live with it.
I think Fascism has made you delusional into thinking you know what goes on in other peoples lives. What do you expect from a Socialist, Nazi, Fascist, Communist liar?
Cambridge,
Excellent post. I was a member of a union for 17 years and sat on the executive committee that negotiated three local labor contracts. I now work in middle-management of a publically-traded software company. I've been there for almost ten years. So, I've seen both sides of the coin.
On one side, you have fanatical neo-cons like promerkin who hate unions and pretty much blame them for the downfall of the country. On the other side, you'll find a few union members who blame corporate America for all the problems that befall labor.
In reality, both fringe attitudes are wrong. The vast majority of union members are hard-working honest Americans who are trying to get fair treatment for an honest day's work. Promerkin and his ilk choose to focus on the rare instances of abuse and treat it as the norm (doing this is a specialty of Limbaugh).
On the other hand, most businesses really do care for the most part about their employees (it makes good business sense to do so) and try to take care of them the best they can—within the constraints of needing to keep the board members and shareholders happy.
Over the past 100 years or so, both labor and business have had their problems, scandals, etc., but on the whole, both have contributed to the amazing prosperity and growth experienced by our country. It's been an uneasy balance balance of power between the two, but I hope it continues.
Promerkin: Social Security is not bankrupt. Where in the world did you come up with that gem? You're not making stuff up like Stanley did are you? I sure wouldn't want to have to toss you into the "Do Not Respond to this Dishonorable Person" folder with him. You would not like that . . . I heard that Stanley doesn't bathe regularly (somethin' about bathing is a "socialist activity"). Oh well, he's a strange, strange man.
The Quail
Cambridge, you should live in Neverland. SS is bankrupt. It was robbed by one of your liberal heros, LBJ. SS is not a vested trust. You don't own it. The libs will have to raise taxes very high to keep it afloat. If won't be too long before 2 workers will pay for 1 employee's SS. It's pay as you go. Who'd want to de-certify from "their" union? Usually when it sells out to management. Unions do support amnesty for illegals. Do you? If unions are so much in demand, why is less than 8% of private employees unionizes? And card check, an attack against our sacred right to a secret ballot. Why do unions want to push that legislation? I'll ask you again,who's the nazi? Unions are socialistic cesspools wanting to ban law abiding Americans from bearing arm. They want to ban free speech (Fairness Doctrine). Unions are obsolete. So are all their elected officers and go-fers. Unions hate it when they're employees attempt to unionize and they resist it to the max. Unions are Mafia and socialist thugs who want to take away our Constitutional rights.
ProMerkin....Unions are not against short sleeve shirts, free speech or for amnesty for illegals. Your just a go-fer for the Nazi cesspool that wants to take the freedom of health care options and the freedom to belong to a union from Americans. Your dream of a Fascist society with Rupert Murdoch as its leader will be defeated.
Cambridge,
For someone who likes national health care, cap and trade and other big government programs you seem to like to throw the term fascist and nazi around quite a bit.
Fascism isn't a thing of the right in fact Mussolini was a big fan of socialism thats what we consider the left now. He often carried around the communist manifesto with him during his younger years. I recommend you read the book liberal fascism. Maybe you'll be a little bit slower to call someone a Nazi if you hear what some of their positions actually were.
Search4Answers.....you need to read between the lines, consider who my post is directed to and what comments that person made to result in my comment.
Since my comment was directed to a crazy person it really wasn't meant to make sense. Your a young man, loosen up. Remember, it's only a movie.
Why do most posters to this forum resort to name calling and citing uninformed data or that which I can hear by tuning into Rush Limbaugh? Doesn't anyone research the topic before forming an opinion? Take the time to read various legislation and determine how it truly relates to you. I own several small businesses and through my experience I can say I believe health care reform seems to be necessary. Record profits, by the Insurance industry, followed by a 24% increase in premiums is greed, pure and simple. I do not see socialized or government run health care anywhere in the current bill. I do see competition being increased in an effort to force a more competitive bidding process.
Some of the legislation I can accept....some of the bill needs revised. The final outcome will be determined by which side of the aisle accepts the most in bribes as they are all on the take.
Quail...I do enjoy your comments. Please keep posting.
Government run healthcare! Yeah, thats what I want. They have already shown us how good they are at it. Just talk to anyone about the V.A. Hospitals. Horror stories.
I believe the V.A. hospitals should be closed. Anyone that served their country and is in need of medical care should be able to pick any doctor, hospital or clinic. The current system can be particularly hard on veterans that live in rural areas where V.A. hospitals a not nearby.
Cambridge, unions ARE for amnesty for illegals! Is it a trait for the left to lie to themselves. You like calling people NAZIS. Forcing workers to join a union without a secret ballot is NAZISM! Thugs beating workers who don't want to join a union is NAZISM! NAZI (NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY). You are such a liar you believe your own lies. If you desire national health insurance slavery, be my guest as long as I don't have to pay for it or be forced to join. National Health Insurance, the left deserves it.