buckeye - you are the idiot!! bush and the republicans created this mess and now obama is working both sides of the aisle to solve a multitude of problems. the republicans and plently of uninformed folks like you are obstructionists who are so blinded by partisan politics that you spew negativism without knowing the facts. obama is three weeks into his administration. why don't you give him a whole month before you call him a failure?
First, this so-called 'stimulus' will accomplish nothing whatever except to make it plain that the United States of America is bankrupt. Bankrupt. Sound like a good thing to you? Is anyone really so foolish as to believe we can 'spend ourselves rich'? By the way, it was tried in the 1930's and it accomplished nothing but to extend and worsen the Depression, and to centralize even more power in D.C.Second, while there is plenty of blame to go around, this mess is NOT properly to be laid at the feet of Bush & Co. The villains are a) Jimmy Carter who gave us the Community Reinvestment Act, which **requires** banks and mortgage companies to grant mortgages to those unqualified for them. Hence the NINJA loans : No Income No Job No Assets No Problem. b) Clinton and his co-thieves who updated and overly enforced this little bit of unconstitutional government meddling c) Senator Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, who did their utmost to prevent the reforms and regulation, SOUGHT by the 'Bush & Co.' , which would have prevented the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Look it up, it's not a secret. Even in the Valley, after more than half a century of one-party rule by the kakistocracy, one might be able to realize that giving mortgage loans to those unable and uninterested in repaying them, is a recipe for disaster. By the way, under the terms of that CRA, several million of these failed mortgages were issued to ILLEGAL ALIENS, those whose very presence in the country is a crime. Shielded by the Democrap Party of course. By the way, you might also want to look up the record of political contributions made in the last couple election cycles, and see how much was reported donated to which party by these banks and mortgage companies, their officers and employees, to which parties and candidates.
Like I've said before. "Republicans like to rewrite history."
Well, as a matter of fact, the Community Reinvestment Act *IS* very much responsible for the current state of affairs. Bad as it was originally, it was made worse in effect under the reign of the former rapist-in-chief. The contention that it required that persons who really do not qualify for home mortgages get them is a fact, not really subject to dispute. That is, in fact, where the term ''sub-prime mortgage'' comes from, it means a high risk (of not being paid) mortgage, one that most lenders traditionally would not offer. And, yes, despite denials from the usual claque of kool-aid drinkers, this did include both illegal aliens and those who had no job; there are MANY reported cases wherein someone's welfare check was considered 'income'. Recall the use of emotionally loaded terms like ''effective racial disparity in lending'', and it should be clear to you how such risky loans were enforced. Look up the history of persons like Maxine Waters if you doubt it.
Nor is it really subject to dispute that groups such as Bank of America and Countrywide were giving mortgages to illegal aliens; you may recall that Bank of America was giving credit cards to illegals. Permitting illegals IS something that I blame Bush for, he deserves any blame you care to heap on him for that. But neither he nor the Republicans are to blame for the CRA, that goes strictly to the Donkey party.
By the way, yep, the Bush White House did try to improve regulation of Fannie Mae. Opposed by high ranking Democrats on the responsible committee. Let's look at the record of campaign contributions to see if, perhaps, access was 'bought'.
Political Contributions tied to Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac 1998--June 30, 2008, this is the top 5 by amount
Name Office Party/State Total1. Dodd, Christopher J S D-CT $133,9002. Kerry, John S D-MA $111,0003. Obama, Barack S D-IL $105,8494. Clinton, Hillary S D-NY $75,5505. Kanjorski, Paul E H D-PA $65,500
oh, and by the waytop 5 Recipients from Bernie Madoff:chuck Schumer Sen NY DemEd Markey Rep NY DemHillary Clinton Sen NY DemJohn Kerry Sen MA DemCarol Maloney NY Rep DemTed Kennedy Senator, MA DemCharles Rangel Congress NY DemJohn Corzine, Governor NJ Dem
They would have done better giving us $150,000 dollars and let us pay off mortgages and buy new cars or whatever we needed. this would have casued companies to have to crank up production and would have started the economy alot quicker.
Those of you who say that former President Bush caused this mess don't know what you are talking about. The President cause the world economy to colapse the oil companies and OPEC did and they arre hard at work pumping up the prices again. Mean while you have our current President who has recinded Bush's Executive Order to allow drilling off shore. What tnmartin posted is right on the money. I am a Democrat and I am ashamed at what the Democratic Party has come to. I am also amazed at the stupidity of people who voted for a man who voted "present" 130 times becasue he didn't have the guts to stand for an issue. Talk about inexperience.
Are you sure that something that happened 30 years ago is to blame for today's economy? It might be something else that caused it.
Maybe it was the land rush in Oklahoma when people with no money were given land.
No, maybe it was the "Louisiana Purchase" when all that land was bought for so little by a young government with the peoples money.
No, maybe it was when the founders had so little money they used beads to buy Manhattan.
Or, maybe it was the Republicans that controlled the White house and the Senate for the past eight years and the House for six of the past eight years with the President vetoing anything a Democratic house put in front of him the last two years.
If it really is the fault of what a Democrate did 30 years ago the republicans had eight years to correct things. Or maybe they aren't as smart as you and couldn't figure out what direction the economy was headed in.
Also I saw your list. I have a list also.
Ronald Reagan (R): RecessionGeorge Bush (R): RecessionBill Clinton (D): Strongest economy in the history of the country. 22 million jobs created.George W. Bush (R): Worst economy since the depression, after eight years a NET JOB LOSS, grew the government by 40%.
We seem to have left out a few Presidents who were around for bad economic times. Like Truman, in the recession of the late 1940's. Or Jimmy 'the Peanuthead' Carter, who created the condition known as 'stagflation', you may remember 20% interest rates, creating the lousy economy that Reagan inherited. Or FDR, who managed through unconstitutional contrivances to take a cyclical downturn and make it last a generation. We might also note that the downturn in the US economy did not hit until AFTER the Donkey party took power in the Congress after the 2006 election,
Look, you like this 'stimulus' / porkulus / Generational Theft Act? Do you? Do you know what is in it? It is an open fact that NO ONE in the Congress has read it. NO ONE. But they voted on it anyway, which sounds like an admission of criminal malfeasance. Grounds to fire the bums, at least, if not toss them in the hoosegow.Some provisions are coming out. Some may be worthy, or not, but to describe them as anything but pork=barrel spending gone wild is to do violence to the truth.- an end to the ability to verify that the employee has any legal right to be here.• $295 million for administrative expenses associated with food stamp program• $1 billion for the 2010 Census• $650 million for the DTV converter box coupon program• $830 million for NOAA research and facilities• $10 million to combat Mexican gunrunners• $125 million for rural communities to combat drug crimes• $1 billion for the COPS program• $1 billion for NASA• $3.7 billion to conduct "green" renovations on military bases• $375 million for Mississippi River projects• $10 million for urban canals• $5 billion for weatherizing buildings• $2 billion to develop advanced batteries for hybrid cars• $5.1 billion for environmental cleanup around military bases• $5.5 billion for "green" federal buildings• $300 million for "green" cars for federal employees• $200 million to design and furnish DHS headquarters• $210 million for State and local fire stations• $125 million to restore trails and abandoned mines• $146 million for trail maintenance at National Park Service sites• $140 million for volcano monitoring systems• $600 million for the EPA Superfund environmental cleanup program• $200 million to clean up leaking underground storage tanks• $500 million for forest health and wildfire prevention• $25 million for the Smithsonian Institution• $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts• $1.2 billion for "youth activities" (for "youth" up to 24 years old)• $500 million earmark for NIH facilities in Bethesda, MD• $1 billion for Head Start• $32 million for home-delivered nutrition services• $160 million for volunteer programs at the Corporation for National and Community Service• $220 million for the International Boundary and Water Commission, U.S. and Mexico"
Everyone is going to Washington, D.C., to ask for billions to cover their budget shortfalls. Otherwise it won't be able to pay for its teachers, cops, firemen, and other essential services.
• $125 million for rural communities to combat drug crimes• $1 billion for the COPS program
• $10 million to combat Mexican gunrunners• $210 million for State and local fire stations
If it so desired, a federal government that foots the bill for cops and fireman could only be a goose step or two away from heading down the road towards a police state.
The time is now to resist the efforts to have state and local governments offer up their police services for federalization.
I have said this before, and I'll re-state it here. You people who like to argue along party lines are the fuel that drives this corrupt politically driven country that we are watching regress at an exponential rate. The politicians want you to take sides politically because then they can sit back and watch the underlings flail while their pockets keep getting fat. The entire system is scrwed up and it has been for decades. But in the interest of our own self demise, keep yelling R or D and I'll see you in the bread line.
Hell No. It will destroy our economy for years and years to come. Obama just blew his shot at 2012 by getting this thing through I'm afraid.
tnmartin, you are great poster. Plenty of research to back up your arguments. Most of the democrats get their info from the Vindicator or lack of info from the Vindicator. Example: Obama promised 5 days to the citizens to review all legislation,nothing done behind closed doors and recently at least 48 hrs. to have the public the time to at least make an attempt to hear or read the contents of legislation before it's voted on by congress. Most of us know none of this happened and yet not one word that I'm aware of in the Vindicator. Isn't this important to know that we've been lied to,campaign rhetoric to get elected and then "screw you". The scary part is that in previous elections the uninformed,the apathetic,the lazy and the young voters would not make it to the polls on election day, therefore making the process and results somewhat tolerable. The voters at least knew enough and cared enough to get to the polls. Now with groups like ACORN,early voting and absentee ballots,the democrats don't have to worry about these people ever getting to the polls and voting for them. It's done for them. Obviously I listen to conservative talk radio (say what you like), but I also listen to Olberman, so I stay grounded. But my gripe is that what I hear alot of is to make your voice heard,every vote counts,don't allow this or that to happen. But really, what can anyone of us really do? Like Dr. Gonzo espouses,it really shouldn't be R or D, but who or what party is going to want what we want. You know what we really believe in, not some pie in the sky rhetoric. I firmly believe that term limits for all politicians is the first step in them doing what's right for the rest of us. I can jump and down all day long and my voice will not be heard. What do we do? Will the Vindicator listen to people like me and demand more from all politicians? Will they support term limits and help get the ball rolling? Grass roots,small chance. Money or the power of the press will get the politicians attention. Let's start with demanding that our local media quit taking sides and do their job,that is watching out for us common folk and let our voices be heard.
borylie and tnmartin, It is nice to read something from posters that actually have a clue instead of the mindless rambling from both the lockstep R's and D's. For those of you old enough to remember, back in the 50's or so when you went into the voting booth in addition to a lever for each of the candidates there were two big levers, one for all Democrats and one for all Republicans. That blind allegience to a party instead of individual candidates is something that will never change in the valley and that is too bad.
I saw your partial list of Obama's stimulus plan. Here is a list of your boy Bush's three page bailout plan.
700 Billion for Wall Street and investment bankers. No questions on what they do with the money.
Since you defend Bush and his administration I will assume you voted for him twice. That alone disqualifies your rants from having any credibility.
When Clinton became President he inherited a budget deficit. When Bush the son, aka: Fredo, became President he inherited a budget surplus. He wasted the surplus and ran up a 9.5 Trillion debt along with wasting 600 Billion to date in Iraq.
You gave Bush his eight years. Don't you think you should give Obama at least eight weeks?
cambridge, It's people like you that take the enlightened like me off these boards. No facts,no commonsense,no clue. You do not have the ability to see both sides of an issue. Have fun in your world.
What ever happened to the promised "focus like a laserbeam" on existing federal spending waste, corruption, duplicate programs, etc promised by Our Leader? Instead, we get a rush-to-judgement rammed down our throats political payoff spending porkulus bill package that must be passed to avoid a "crisis". We taxpayers when faced with tough times first reduce our spending to relect our income but our Federal government instead spends more money they don't have ina vain and failed attempt to "stimulate" our faltering economy, all the while telling us it will get worse if they do nothing! I'd say lets try doing noting first....as in the medical creed "first do no harm". When all is said and done, we would have come out of this recession as we have in the past except this time we will be more in debt and in a far weaker position globally than before! May God help the United States of America, and protect us from our politicians!
I believe every point in my comment are facts. If I made a statement that was incorrect please "enlighten" me.
camunhinged, 9.5 trillion? Fact? Sorry cannot enlighten, once the bulb is burnt out,it's out.
You are correct. The National debt is 10.7 Trillion. My bad.
Clinton and Reno where the last ones to change these policys for bad morgages, look up the history, know the facts. Bush worked to try to stop it from continuing. Look it up and read it, dont be a simpleton and get your info from MSNBC>
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