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Supporters of anti-fracking amendment unveil 2 billboards


Published: Fri, April 19, 2013 @ 12:08 a.m.

photo

Supporters of an anti-fracking charter amendment on Youngstown’s May 7 ballot unveil billboards. Lynn Anderson, front, spoke Thursday in support of the amendment. Behind her, from left, are Tom Cvetkovich, Jack Slanina and Susie Beiersdorfer. This billboard is on South Avenue.

By David Skolnick

skolnick@vindy.com

YOUNGSTOWN

Supporters of an anti-fracking charter amendment in the city unveiled two billboards in their campaign to persuade voters to cast ballots May 7 for the issue.

Members of Frack Free Youngs-town also urged registered voters in the city to cast ballots early for the “community bill of rights.”

“We have to protect ourselves,” said Lynn Anderson, a Frack Free member, Thursday in front of one of the billboards on South Avenue, near Dewey Avenue in the parking lot of Crim’s Corners South Avenue Gas Mart.

She called fracking “an unregulated, deregulated dangerous industry.”

Frack Free members said they received many donations of $2 to $5 to pay for the two billboards — the other is on Meridian Road, just south of Interstate 680 — but those at Thursday’s press conference said they didn’t know how much was raised.

Anderson pointed out that the charter amendment, if approved, would also make it illegal to harm the city’s drinking-water source, the Meander Reservoir, which isn’t located in Youngstown.

Alan Wenger, a member of the Mahoning Valley Coalition for Job Growth and Investment, an organization working to defeat the charter amendment, said the proposal isn’t enforceable.

When asked about Meander, Wenger said, “Why don’t they shoot for the Atlantic Ocean while they’re at it? They can’t force anything in the city, let alone outside Youngstown.”

The state controls all fracking in Ohio, and the charter amendment wouldn’t be enforceable, if approved, said Wenger, an attorney with Harrington, Hoppe & Mitchell and chairman of the law firm’s oil and gas practice group.

But if the issue passes, “it will be very bad for economic development in the area,” he said. “Anyone reading [the ballot language] will think we’re a bunch of idiots. They will also think, ‘Why would we do business in a city that passes a law like this?’ They can go elsewhere and not have to deal with an unenforceable, radical, an anarchistic law that would require them to file lawsuits.”

Tom Cvetkovich, a Frack Free Youngstown member, said the law is enforceable.

“While I completely understand the importance of jobs, it doesn’t outweigh the need for clean water and clean air,” he said.

Mayor Charles Sammarone agrees with Wenger that the proposal isn’t enforceable, but the provision forbidding a corporation to produce and deliver pipelines or other equipment used in the extraction of shale gas or oil in the city would mean V&M Star, which spent $1.1 billion on an expansion project in the city, couldn’t operate. V&M makes pipes for the gas and oil industry.


Comments

1UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Disconnect the fractivist from all energy grids.

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2UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Frackfree Mahoning, are banking on the low information status of the citizens of poor Youngstown to get their slanted way. They know in higher information areas, people will not fall for their ruse.
Only Youngstown citizens will be hurt by this charter propaganda, while the majority in Mahoning county will benefit financially as Youngstown gets poorer.

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3hmm(183 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Since Youngstown wants to live in the steel mill past ...... Steel mills were active , jobs and life was prosperous ..... Look at this as the NEXT industrial.age for Y-town ....

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4glbtactivist(255 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

This is a great charter proposal. Headed in the direction of improving live for the residents of Youngstown. This is not the industrial pit of Ohio anymore. We must take steps to make it a safe, clean and nice place to live. Then small, safe businesses can move back in from the suburbs. Only the poorest and weakest communities are allowing fracking. They are being abused by the huge multinational energy corporations that just want to steal our gas for sale overseas and do it in a way that pollutes our water forever.

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5RTS1416(117 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

The poorest and weakest community within 100 miles of Youngstown is hmmm, lets see, yep its Youngstown.

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6Ytownnative(1049 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

I don't support fracking but I also don't support this amendment. D&L dumped thousands of gallons made millions of dollars then filed bankruptcy.

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7oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Utica Shale,
This proposal could cause problems for people outside of Youngstown.
One of the pieces of the amendment gives the citizens of Youngstown to bring litigation against a person or corporation that they feel threatens the Meander Reservoir watershed. So if you live in that watershed and you lease your property to an oil and gas company and the company tries to develop that lease some of these fractivists intend to sue everyone involved.
Just ask Ms. Anderson.
This isn't just about Youngstown for these people.

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8UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Oh13Voter, Fortunately majority of taxpayers in Mahoning county can see the radical bent these Economic Terrorist are trying to ram down the throats of the poor of Youngstown.

These occupyers are trying to redline the entire State beginning with Youngstown, because the urban area has lower information than the rest of the county. The fractivist wish to take advantage of the blacks and poor whites of Youngstown thinking they can CON them into throwing away their rights to their minerals in the wet gas zone of the Utica.

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9Julieag(4 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Anyone who chooses the economy over the environment is either an idiot or some greedy pig profiting from it. Toxic chemicals in our water so a few Youngstown people can have jobs (many people employed from this industry are from out of town) and some homeowners get some extra money.

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10Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ok UticaShale have you ever read the amedment or understand it. It is already now it an not legaaly be enforece. It is more about taing a stand to the industry.

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11UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Frack Free Youngstown is screwing the Blacks who mostly live in the City of Youngstown. Frack Free Youngstown is not trying to ban drilling in the suburbs or rural areas, no they are trying to redline Youngstown where most of the Blacks live and own property. Beiersdorfer, Andersen and their ilk are seeking to prohibit the poor and Blacks of Youngstown from leasing or selling their valuable mineral rights. Unbelievable how blatant these Fractivist are, they care about no one especially the poorest of the poor, the Blacks of Youngstown. While the whites in the suburbs and rural areas are cashing in, Frack Free Youngstown is working hard to screw the blacks and poor, great job Beiersdorfer, Andersen and their ilk, take a stand while stepping on the Black folks, I hope the Attorney General steps in.

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12Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

race has nothing to do with this you idiot. where you come up[ with this stuff?

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13UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Okay Metz, debate it then and quit with the names. Show us how the Blacks won't be screwed as you and your ilk try to ban their property but not redline the suburbs or farms, go ahead debate.

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14Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

prove your point first. I do not have to since your comment is really not worth debating. Provide a link or forever be known as a lier.

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15Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

This has more to do with public health then anything else, enviorment is right up there too but you are in it for the money correct which is the root of all evil and greed?

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16UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Metz did you finish high school?

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17Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

yes, have you? prove your point provide one piece of evidnece to support your claim that this bill of rights or charter amendement will harm poor black people in Youngstown I dare you.

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18UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

It will devalue all Youngstown mineral rights down to zero.

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19Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ok prove it don't just claim or say it. Otherwise it is youre opinion which means nothing without facts.

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20UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Prove what? If you ban drilling in Youngstown Blacks cannot lease their mineral rights. There will be no value anymore.
I think you need to go get some help in understanding what you want to engage in.

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21cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

UselessShrimp....I had you all wrong. All this time that I thought you were no more than a greedy scam artist you were actually working to make the dream of owning a brand new lawn mower come true for the "poor blacks" of Youngstown.

Don't be surprised if voters in those suburbs rethink and reject fracking in their back yards also.

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22Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

He makes his side look really bad with his silly nonsnese comments. This may be the worst of them all.

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23Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Because they know it will pass or it will make them look bad.

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24Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Another D&L like dumping cases occring in Lowellville from 2003 to 2012 Seems that Lupo is not the only person who thinks they do not have to follow enviromental laws, the EPA and the ODNR.
http://www.wkbn.com/2013/04/24/lowell...

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25oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,
..."their area was targeted as a sacrifice zone..."
Instead of using the word "their"why don't you use the phrase "those people" ? WOW talk about a racist attitude.
As for a"sacrifice zone" in the city, here's a news flash ABC there isn't one drilling rig working in Youngstown, and the development of the Utica Shale has been in full swing for two years all on land outside the city.

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26Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

If one more incidnet of illegal dumping comes out before May 7th and i doubt they will be able to do anything tp prevent this charter amedment from passing. Again the ODNR and EPA knew about all these violations and other then a slap on the wrist and some fines did nothing to stop it. That is what this is all about to try to give local communties the legal authority the right to regulate the shale gas industry. The state has failed us with this form the start.

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27oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC 100,
I understood what you meant I doubt you truly do.
The words I cited were yours not US.
You are a typical liberal, you think you are smarter than others, in this instance you believe you know better than the African American community of Youngstown.
So what if the area is targeted ? Aren't the people in that area smart enough to make their own decisions? I think so, obviously you don't. You and the others believe you should decide how the owners of property should use their land, including leasing their oil and gas rights.. You would take away the rights of land owners with your misguided ban. You are a closet racist.

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28oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ytown20,
No other community will follow Youngstown.
I have the opportunity to travel the state, and I am repeatedly asked "what is wrong with the people in Youngstown"?
The rest of Ohio is laughing at Youngstown.

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29oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Metz,
You and others continually state that oil and gas companies aren't regulated due to the mythical halliburton loophole. Yet the company accepting the waste at Sharon Slag was cited under the federal Clean Water Act. How could that be ? You and the others constantly state that they are exempt from that act.

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30oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,
If you trust people to make the right decision then why take that decision away from them?

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31Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

LOL - -That is some funny stuff right there.

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32oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,
If the amendment passes 51% to 49% you will have taken away the property rights of the 49%.
There is no need for the amendment the people already have a choice, don't lease. If the majority of the citizens don't lease no wells can be drilled and the majority will have spoken. No need for the amendment.

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33oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ytown20,
That is not my assertion, it is made by the anti-drilling folks all the time.
As for D&L and the other company; they are not representative of the industry. Even the majors in the industry want Lupo etal prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
By the way, regulation of oil filed waste haulers by the city is already allowed. There is no need for the charter amendment.
It is not an exemption from SWDA. It was an exemption from oversite by the EPA. Congress asserted (correctly) that the industry should be regulated by state agencies. The Congressional legislation also requires that all state regulations must include all pertinent federal regulations such as the SDWA. There is no Halliburton Loophole, it's a myth.
Your statement about the NPDES negates your previous claim about the Halliburton Loophole. The industry actually is regulated.

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34oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

I constantly read on this site and others that hydraulic fracturing pollutes water. When I ask for an example I always get the D&L issue.
D&L does not perform fracing, they are a waste hauler. They caused pollution through illegal dumping not fracing.
There has never been a case of hydraulic fracturing causing pollution. If you folks truly understood the procedure you would understand why it never has caused pollution.

Vote NO! on May 7th
There is no reason for the charter amendment!

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35oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ytown20,
You don't understand the mandatory pooling statute. It is not as easy to use as you have been lead to believe.

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36oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ytown20,
The EPA has a lot of authority over the UIC. Although, the state handles the regulation of UIC the state regulations must be approved by the EPA.

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37oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,

The real issue is the one about poisoning. There is no poisoning.
You and the others can continue to repeat your misinformation in order to scare people but in the end it will be all for nothing. The majority of voters in the city are wise to your game and will vote no.

VOTE NO MAY 7th

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38Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Some people here are idiots. No bother arguing with them they would not believe proof that fracking is harmful if you shoved it down there throat As for the indsutry being except they are if you bother to look up the law which I know none of you pro frackers have bothered doing. And answer this why do companies that for years illegal dump drilling waste takes years to get caught when the EPA and ODNR knew about it and some homeowbers complain about what they have seen. Can sanyone answer that if not shut up and go work for Cheespeke. Tired of you morons. May 7th wil tell us what the people think not the local lawmakers, the industry or their suppoters. If this passes you should all be forcec to drink the fracking water with sand and have yoour hea;=lth suffer. Maybe then it will get through your thick skulls if it does not kill you first.

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39Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

So many lies here and yet no proof provided form one website other then your opnion that fracking is not harmful to people's health and soill has ever effected groundwater or surface. water. i will say it agaion prove what you are saying or be labled by many on here not for fracking as zealots or shrills..

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40oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,
You continually refuse to present proof of your claims. Typical.You are a Chicken Little .
The sky is falling , the sky is falling.

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41oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Metz,
Here's the proof - 67 years of fracing, 1.5 million frac jobs not one incident of pollution. Just the facts mam, just the facts.
Even the former Administrator of the EPA , Lisa Jackson, agrees with me. Check it out on Youtube.

You are another Chicken Little.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

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42cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ohoh13....You were right there is info about fracking on YouTube. Thanks for the heads up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phCibw...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_uNx2...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEB_Ww...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgXpyg...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smpw0E...

There are tons more if you want me to post them let me know.

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43oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

If you like driving your car,
VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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44RTS1416(117 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Cambrige please...You act like your copy and paste crap is something new, go back through your posts and you will find that you have attached that same nonsense to other posts over the last 6 months.

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45cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

rts....which part is "nonsense"? Is it nonsense just because you say it is? Those wells blowing up in the middle of nowhere are the same wells you want to see in neighborhoods in the valley....that's nonsense.

I remember your first few post where you portrayed yourself as just an average citizen with no skin in the game trying to get information on fracking. Still sticking to that nonsense?

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46RTS1416(117 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. The more I have learned from research and watching what is going on around me, yes I do live in an area where much of this development is happening, I am leaning towards the side that says this is just not as bad as some would portray it to be. I have not leased, nor do I intend to, but I am no more afraid of this type of energy production than I am of the North Koreans hitting us with a nuke.

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47Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

That isa not proof that is asertions. And as for the EPA you can cry lioer here to but I don't give a good crap, the EPA caters to the industry and has for years So they are not exactly without their bias. A Youtube viedo, really that is the best you got, what a joke! Moron! Answer this who made the viedo, do they have a stake in the industry, do theu work for one of the compnaies, are they pro frack. If any of thse are true expect few to belive you. There have been many accidents and spills every year. If you don't belive me go to hell.

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48oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Metz,
All Congressional hearings are filmed, the video was made by the staff of the U.S.House of Representatives.
I'm actually already in hell having to deal with people such as yourself.

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49Ytownnative(1049 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

getting back to the amendment. If you follow the "letter of the law" as the amendment is written. I could, in theory, sue my neighbor if the lit their grill and the smoke entered my house? (section 4b) and sue my neighbor because the dog barked? (4c)

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50oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ytownnative,
You are correct, but the real problem is that individuals have the right to enforce the law. There is no due process. So if you light your grill and a neighbor feels violated they have the right to come over and turn off the grill. If you don't comply they have the right to confiscate the grill.
I'm sure you can imagine the outcome of this type of situation. It will be a nightmare.

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51oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,

No, I am not employed in the oil and gas industry.

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52oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,

the first youtube link.
GasLand ? Really ? that's the best you folks have?
The film it's content have been debunked. Even the producer Josh Fox admits that he took "Creative License" with the facts because as he admits this is not a documentary meant to provide scientific based information.

By the way I have watched Gas Land, Have you watched FrackNation?

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5376Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Gag orders prevent a lot of the truth from being made available to the public after settlements are reached out of court.

The New York Times analyzed more than 110,000 shale gas leases and concluded; over half of gas leases provide landowners no restitution in the event of harm, most exclude any explanation of potential harm and a majority of leases include automatic contract extensions that require no landowner approval. Many leases include clauses mandating that damage disputes be heard in arbitration outside of the legal system.

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54UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Vindy votes NO!

Next the Vindy will clean up here and throw the trolls off!

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55oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

The gag orders put in place are few. You assume that they are used to stifle information. Their primary use is put an end to the dispute.

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56oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

What's that sound ? Oh yeah, it's the Vindicator pounding another nail into the coffin of the charter amendment.

The vindy advised it's readers to VOTE NO MAY 7TH

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57Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Almost like he is the same guy or they are brothers. Either way they are not beliveble.

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58oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,
Over 5000 wells drilled in and around Youngstown and none of the "poisons" you mention have been found in Youngstown.

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59Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

those 5,00 weels are vewrtical wells. not horizontal weels. two tottaly different things. Even you know that. More misinformation you spew on purpose. There are only about a dozen horizontial weels to date in the entire county, most are in southwest mahoning county nowhere near Youngstown. Get your facts stright if you want to try to sway people to the othehr side.

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60oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC110,

I would have empathy for the people in the film except that it's all a lie. None of those shown in the film have been able to prove their claims. In some instances government agencies have proved them false.

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61oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Metz,

How is a vertical well different from a horizontal well ? Other that one is vertical and one horizontal.

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62UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Abc, what other morphed name will you hide under after the Vindy throws you out again.
Don't worry folks, this economic terrorist will be evicted for the last time soon. The Vindy is their last site to pollute since all blogs have accountability for the vomit he and the rest of his ilk post.

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63oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Answer the question Metz.
What is the difference between a vertical well and a horizontal well?

ABC, Even Josh Fox has admitted it, you know who he is don't you ?

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64Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Vote yes.

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65oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,

It is possible that these people are ill.

I am saying the film is lying by inferring that the ailments these people claim to have are due to shale development, and fracing.

Further investigation of each of the claims produces the fact that none of them has been shown to be associated with shale development.

When questioned about this Josh Fox (you know who he is right?), and I paraphrase, that the facts aren't important, it's the broader message. Besides he states this isn't a fact based documentary it's "art".

By the way they some were paid for their time.

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66oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Since Metz refuses to answer the question are there any others brave enough to give it a try ?

What is the difference between a vertically drilled well and a horizontally drilled well ?

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67oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Another lie debunked.
The anti shale development movement, and proponents of the charter amendment have long contended that shale development releases dangerous amounts of methane into the atmosphere,

We now know this to be a lie. A new report released by the EPA says errant methane release is not the problem once believed due to reductions in emissions.

How ere the emissions reduced ? The industry did it themselves according to the EPA, "... tighter pollution controls instituted by the industry resulted in an average annual decrease..."

The report also makes the assertion that there is no need for increased regulation by the EPA.

It can also be expected that the emissions will continue to decline as techniques and equipment improve.

Why would the industry do this on their own ? Because the more methane captured the more that can be sold.

Can anyone say Smack Down !

VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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68cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ohoh13....Can you produce a video showing exactly what Josh Fox admits he did or didn't do.

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69oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Cambridge,

Old fractivist trick, sorry not biting. Do your own work.

VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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70oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Metz refuses to answer the question, will anyone else ?

What is the difference between a vertically drilled well and a horizontally drilled well ?

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71cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ohoh13....you are the one that claims in YOUR POSTS #70, #83 and #90 that Josh Fox somehow admits Gasland is inaccurate or that people with frack chemicals in their pee and blood have been proved false by government agencies. Those are your words fool. You got that information from somewhere, just provide your source of information. Hard to post the voices in your head isn't it.

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72Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

As for the difference between the to types of wels you jsut asked the question yourself. Will not answer it becuase even if i do you will say my answer is wrong you do the very same thing you clim the other side does you hypocrite!

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73UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Metz! come on back to GoMarcellusshale.com to debate again, last time you cried and went home. While you are at it invite your troll friends like Biggy, Cambridge and YBarrio.
Chance, I have to say you are the only troll I respect, you were brave enough to take off your mask and fight with over 15000 of us shaleowners.

FOLOW THE VINDY ,VOTE NO FOR THE CHARTER AND VINDY TROLLS!

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74Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

I see Uticashill king of the trolls is still spewing diarrhea. Vote yes. After all if Uticashill is for it it just has to be wrong. Keep it up Utica you are doing a better job of exposing the industry than any of us ever could. THANKS! LOL.

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75Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

I wonder if Uicashill will be in charge of counting the votes?

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76oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,

The information from blood and urine tests can lie, if you distort the information.

You claim the tests show farcing chemicals. Did those tests prove that those chemicals came from a specific frac job ?

You lifted that info from a leftist site and didn't do any more research.

It's a good thing you don't work for a research university seeking the cure for cancer.

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77oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben,

As an employee of the Mahoning County Board of Elections I will be intimately involved with the count.

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78oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

cambridge,

I won't play your fractivist game.

All you fractivists on this site seem to have all the answers. All I ask is that you prove me wrong. Make your case. I know you can't and so do you that's why you are upset. Facts drive you leftists crazy.

Again;prove me wrong. Show me where Mr.Fox defends his film. Oh that's right you can't because he is a liar.

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79EllenM(3 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Vote Yes on May 7th to stop Toxic Fracking in Youngstown. In Pennsylvania during this drilling boom the unemployment rate has remained higher than the national average. The jobs go to out of state workers and the industry claims that they create thousands of jobs are just lies... http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statem...

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80oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ellen,
Not so 80% of oil and gas employment is local. You are using old data, and I suspect you use it on purpose.

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81oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,
You are an equal opportunity racist. Not only do you discriminate against African Americans you also don't like Latinos.

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82oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,

I do know more than all of those people you cite. Because I know the truth. Something you seem to avoid.

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83oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

To all,
You sound so silly vote yes to toxic fracking.
None of you really understand the issue. You just repeat the nonsense you are fed. Have you no courage? Why not question the answers you have been given ?

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84oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,

You have never seen anyone with radiation poisoning from fracing, you made that up.

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85oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ytown20,

The information you provide isn't proof of what the cause of contamination (if any) was.

The industry is already in OH and isn't going to leave any time soon.

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86oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Mayoral candidates tell voters to VOTE NO MAY 7TH on the charter amendment issue.

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87oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

The release of a report by the Natural Resources Defense Council shows a 19% decrease in emissions of all air toxins including mercury.
One of the primary reasons for the reduction in emissions is the increasing use by power plants of natural gas.

That's right the air is cleaner today due to the use of clean burning natural gas.

Natural gas brought to you , in part, by the use of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing.

Help keep our air clean. VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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88oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ytown20,

The New York Times writer Eliza Griswold wrote an article about this very subject. Ms. Griswold found no such manipulation.

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89oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Supporters of the charter amendment claim it protects residents rights against the oil and gas industry. This is unnecessary.

The Ohio Revised Code Chapter 1509 and the extensive book of regulations establishes a well developed, science based body of regulations, backed by enforcement.

No single local government could possibly hope to provide the same.

The amendment is unnecessary, and the other provisions of the amendment, beyond those dealing with oil and gas development, are harmful to the property rights and human rights of the residents of the City of Youngstown.

Protect your rights, VOTE NO MAY 7TH

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90oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Many residents and organizations have concerns about oil and gas development. Is there another way for them to have their concerns addressed without voting for the charter amendment.

Yes !

The issues of concern for city residents are a matter of state law not a charter amendment or ordinance. Concerned citizens should work with their state legislators to develop laws and regulations that address their concerns. The Youngstown area is fortunate to be represented by two active legislators, representative Robert Hagan and State Senator Joe Schiavone

VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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91Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

oh13voter "The issues of concern for city residents..." I thought you lived in Meander?

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92Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

If you live in the city don't be discourage by these folks. They are concerned that you may stand up for yourselves through the vote. Ask yourselves what is in your best interest not what is in someone else's best interest.

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93oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben,

The charter amendment as promoted by Frack Free America has a national agenda. That agenda is like a cancer, if caught early and treated it can be cured.

We all have a stake in what the voters of Youngstown decide.

Those that promote the amendment know that if they presented the amendment as part of their national agenda it would have no hope of passing. So they present it as a local issue, which is a lie. The manufactured environmental issues they use to support the need for the amendment are also lies.

As good citizens we have a responsibility to expose deceipt in government wherever we find it.

Vote for good government, VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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94Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

oh13voter

"We all have a stake in what the voters of Youngstown decide." - - - -I have to agree on this. What this means to the good people of my community is to vote for what is in their best interests not in what is in industry interests. Clean air to breath and clean water to drink are more important than corporate agendas.

"As good citizens we have a responsibility to expose deceit in government wherever we find it."- -I don't think you can have a greater example of democracy in action than when the people let the government know what they want done. The people are the government.

The government employees are to serve the people's desires and interests not their own or some large corporation. If some agenda is opposed to the will of the people then you have found what you term deceit in government.

oh13voter - -Was there a past Vindy article showing any funds received by any members of Ohio state government from anyone or any corporation involved with fracking? If so would you please re post that here. Would you search that out please and give us the information if any ? Thanks in advance for that effort.

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95Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

oh13voter- - --"So they present it as a local issue, which is a lie."- - - -I have to say that people don't live in the whole nation. People live locally. The colonies fought the Revolution giving birth to this nation and one of the reasons was taxation without representation. At all levels government it is the will of the people that allows democracy to flourish. There simply can not be democracy apart from the people's will being recognized and then carried out. We carry this out through an honest vote.

There have been dark parts of our nations history where there has been cheating and all sorts of evildoing at the polls.

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96Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

I found this article from THINKPROGRESS this,http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/14/367772/kasich-oil-gas-most-ohio-donations/?mobile=nc

The article states " Kasich has taken $213,519 in contributions from the oil and gas industry,...."

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97oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben,

You need a civics lesson, we have representation, you and the others don't like the process and have chosen to attempt to circumvent it.

You are represented by a state representative and a state senator. It is through them and the legislative process in Columbus that concerns about oil and gas development should be addressed.

As the ORC is at this moment it does not allow for charter amendments etc to deal with oil and gas development. That is why the amendment is not enforceable.

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98Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

And if it is not enforced why bother fighting against it? Can you answer that honestly and with actual proof? I wil say if it needs to have thousands f dollars spent to fight a amendment that has no point then something is not being told. hat is it may be enforceable after all.

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99oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100,

If you are so confident that the amendment will pass why do you continue to post your misinformation ?

Here is the answer to your question and my question.It is a campaign that is why we both continue to campaign.

I have worked on many campaigns and one of the fundamental rules is to campaign right up to the last minute.

So where is my reasoning faulty that the amendment isn't enforceable?

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100oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Jobs, Jobs, and more Jobs.

That is what shale development means to the unemployed and poor of Youngstown.

Development is new to our area and only about 2,500 jobs have been created here. But that is 2,500 people who were unemployed and now have a job. Jobs that pay $40,000 - $70,000 per year.

To get a better perspective let's look at PA where shale development is in it's 7th year.

According to a report released on11-4-2013 by the PA Dept of Labor 214,000 jobs related to shale development had been created.

Over 80% of those jobs were held by current PA residents, another 10% plus, were held by people who moved from OH, NY WV, and MD. The rest are held by people from other states.

The charter amendment will kill job creation in Youngstown. It will also increase unemployment and poverty as companies close and move out of Youngstown.

Vote to help the unemployed and the poor of Youngstown. VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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101Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Because you aren't a lawyer and therefore do not know. You only hear from others against the amendment that it is not enforceable and therefore repeat what you have heard or been told. I am not a laywer either so I do not know and therfroe will not claim one way or the other, maybe you should do the same.

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102oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Metz,

I'll write slowly so you can follow this.

You do not have to be an attorney to under our state Constitution, and the U.S. Constitution. If you had paid more attention in High School you would already understand what I have said.

Here it is : The Ohio Revised Code(ORC) gives governmental entities such as the City of Youngstown the authority to pass laws, ordinances and associated regulations. The ORC also limits that authority.

One of the areas where the authority of cities is limited is the regulation of oil and gas development.

The only way to change that in Ohio is through the legislative process in the legislature in Columbus.

Under the ORC this charter amendment has no authority and is therefore unenforceable. At least the provisions dealing with oil and gas development.

The other provisions of charter attempt to usurp the rights of people granted under the 14th amendment and 10th amendment of the U.S Constitution. There are only way two ways to change the rights granted under the 14th and 10th amendments.

First a bill must pass by a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate. Then the bill must be sent to each state legislature for ratification. The other method for change is a Constitutional convention. Short of either of those the charter amendment cannot usurp the rights granted by our Bill of Rights. Therefore under the U.S. Constitution the amendment is unenforceable.

I typed as slow as I could, hope you understand that this amendment is unenforceable under the U.S. Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Ohio.

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103Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

oh13voter " You need a civics lesson, we have representation, you and the others don't like the process and have chosen to attempt to circumvent it.

You are represented by a state representative and a state senator. It is through them and the legislative process in Columbus that concerns about oil and gas development should be addressed."

- - - -Your wrong our representatives are suppose to carry out the will of the people not their own will. It is you need a lesson in government.That is why we have voting once the vote if it is honest is completed , those who serve the citizens carry that will out.

The kind of government you are more familiar with has been perverted where representatives accept funding in the form of special donations so that the interest group's will and not the will of the people is carried out.

The latter example is not democracy at all and it certainly is not representative democracy it is corporatism or some may call it fascism. When this happens citizens rights are trampled on in favor of corporate profits.

Sometimes meaningless meetings are held to give those who are deemed ignorant the idea that they have a say in their local politics but it is an empty illusion for the agenda was fixed long before any meeting was held and nothing that is spoken about at the meeting is taken seriously. Papers with the desires of the people written on them are thrown into the trash when the meeting adjourns.

Class dismissed!

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104Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

As I mentioned before there have been many abuses to voting in our nation particularly with African Americans following the Civil War all the way through the 1960s. These citizens were denied the access to vote many times in the south.
Only US citizens are permitted to vote.
It can take the form of not counting votes that were cast.
There have also been cases of voter fraud where dead people have been counted as voting citizens. The examples go on and on.

Also as far as I know one must still be a citizen of the United States to vote.

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105UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

WHAT THE FRACK! WHY DO YOU WANT TO REDLINE THE CITY AND NOT BOARDMAN, AUSTINTOWN, POLAND, COITSVILLE, CANFIELD. YEAH I GIT IT, THE BURBS AND FARMS GET THE CASH AND WE GET OUR YOUNGSTOWN REDLINED. WHY ARE YOU PUNKING US IN YOUNGSTOWN? SO YOU WANT TO PLAY US IN YOUNGSTOWN SO WE GET NOTHING FOR OUR OIL. MAN YOU GUYS ARE REALLY GHETTO. YOU THINK WE ARE THAT STUPID. YOU CAN FIGHT EACH OTHER ALL DAY LONG HERE, BUT ONLY US YOUNGSTOWN FOLKS GET SCREWED FOR REAL!
HERE'S THE GIG BROTHAS AND SISTAS, WE GOT OIL UNDER OUR LAND TOO AND THESE FRACTIVIST WANT ONLY US NOT TO SELL IT WHILE EVERYONE ELSE GETS CASH, WHAT GHETTO PLAN IS THIS. VOTE NO, NO AND NO TO THE CHARTER PUNKS?

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106oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben,

Here's a history lesson for you;
Which party did most voting African Americans belong to up until the 1960's ? Republican. Why ?
The Democrats are the party of slavery, the Democrats are the party of Jim Crow laws. The Democrats are the party of the KKK. The Democrats opposed school integration. The Democrats opposed voting rights for African Americans. Democrats opposed the Great Society.

The Democrats have a history of prejudice against African Americans. Now the Democrats that support the charter amendment wish to deny the African American community of Youngstown the opportunity to share in the economic benefits of shale development.

Did I mention that the promoters of the charter amendment are predominantly white and don't live in the city ?

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107oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben,

Another civics lesson.

Our country is not a democracy, it is a democratic republic. We elect people to represent us. If we feel they don't represent us we elect someone who does. That's how it works.

The charter amendment intends to work outside of that system. I believe that is intentional because one of the purposes of the backlers of the charter amendment is the destruction of our form of government.

If you don't like how things are working then change it. But change it within our form of government. Our government can only be perverted if we allow it. Our government is the people we elect so if it is perverted it's our fault. We elected these people.

I admire your passion but I believe it is misdirected. We don't need to replace our form of government we need to repair it. The start would be to elect new people.

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108cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

UselessShrimp.....you went from being an engineer that came here with the oil and gas industry to "US YOUNGSTOWN FOLKS" and "BROTHA'S AND SISTAS."

When you're an engineer do you do carry a slide rule in your pocket protector and when you're a BROTHER are you pants saggin,your hair turned to dreads, bouncin down the street smokin indo sippin on gin and juice?

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109Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Now oh13voter- - -You have to qualify democrats. These were southern democrats. Now the parties flip flopped over into the 20th century. The Republicans are now what the Dems were back in the day. You need to understand that.

Do you understand that the parties are not the same today as they were then? Lincoln as a Republican was really more like a modern day Democrat. I bet you didn't expect that one did you ?FDR was concerned about the southern dem vote and he was a dem. Thought I would point this out to you.

So the comment you make about the democratic party today in the north being the same party as the southern democrats during the post Civil War period is indeed False.It is not the same party.

Personally,I think both parties have gone astray to a large extent as they are controlled by special interest. That is what needs addressing more than party affiliation.If corporations court both parties than what chance does the average citizen have ? That is where the rubber meets the road.

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110Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Even Johnson wasn't a typical southern democrat. He was quite liberal for his time the 1960s and being from the south. Although I am not a fan for other reasons.Kennedy was a northern dem who sent the troops down to desegregated the schools sown South so you must be careful when using catch all phrases describing political parties and the individuals within them.

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111Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben,

"Another civics lesson.

Our country is not a democracy, it is a democratic republic. We elect people to represent us. If we feel they don't represent us we elect someone who does. That's how it works.

The charter amendment intends to work outside of that system. I believe that is intentional because one of the purposes of the backlers of the charter amendment is the destruction of our form of government.

If you don't like how things are working then change it. But change it within our form of government. Our government can only be perverted if we allow it. Our government is the people we elect so if it is perverted it's our fault. We elected these people.

I admire your passion but I believe it is misdirected. We don't need to replace our form of government we need to repair it. The start would be to elect new people."

You need to reread my post carefully regarding this subject.No I never said replace our government. I said what representative democracy is and what it is not. What it should be and where it has gone wrong. There is a big difference.

A representative democracy is not having special interest groups buy the will and therefore representation that is reserved for the voting citizens. If your not catching that it it is the central theme here. I don't see corporatism in the Constitution , nor the Declaration Of Independence. On the contrary this yoke was cast off from Europe. The citizens are the government not corporations. I can't change that for you even if I wanted to to make you feel better.

Your lesson - -Research John Locke and the enlightened philosophers of Europe whose ideas were central to our form of government. Read the social contract (John Locke).Sounds like you need a refresher course.

This charter amendment is as American as apple pie and the granny whose skillful loving hands that made it. I'd rather have granny's apple pie than fracking fluid.

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112Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Cambridge your last post amused me.

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113Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

oh13voter - - The other part of your homework assignment is to an article showing where various monies were possibly provided to the Governor Kasich and possibly ODNR. I don't want to be inaccurate so I am going to offer you extra credit to locate it. However there is a condition if someone else locates it before you then you loose. I posted one on Kasich from another source already but the one I am thinking of may have had more than just the Governor. I could be mistaken though.I thought I saw it on the Vindy. OK go to it.

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114cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben....if they made this a sitcom we would all make enough money to buy big oil and gas.

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115Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Cambridge LOL. I hear you. I am teaching history and government to oh13voter on here .lol. Welcome to the twilight zone.(Music playing).

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116Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Posted by oh13voter"Democrats opposed the Great Society." - - -Bigben says what??? This was President Johnson's baby and guess what party he was from? Democrat.Geez this is getting silly.Come on now you need that extra credit.

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117oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben,,
Lincoln a Democrat of today, wow . No way,. He believed in the Constitution. The Progressive Democrats of today hate the Constitution. Your comments are an obvious example.

And of course Kasich is the only politician who accepts campaign contributions. You are atypical liberal, it's ok for the politicians you support to take campaign contributions but God forbid that those you oppose take any.

You may have read Locke but you don't understand his philosophy and how it influenced the men who formed our government.

Again, typical liberal, take what works for you and throw away the rest. You cite the portions of Locke's philosophy and reject that which doesn't meet your needs.

The charter is Un American, it is anarchy. We have a form of government, we have a process to reform that government and you and you leftist friends refuse to work within that process. The reason you refuse to work within that system is that you know you cannot succeed.

Look at how the campaign to pass the charter has been presented the voter. The campaign is all lies becasue you all know if you presented the truth there is no way it would pass.

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118cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben....it's amazing the amount of times ohoh13 has been caught in total BS or proved wrong and will pretend you didn't just own his ass or will call unquestionable evidence a lie. I like the one where he's attributing his quote to you. The guy needs a that makes no F'n sense check on his computer.

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119oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bigben,

The Democrat party of today is exactly the same as it has always been, whether from the north or the south.

Democrats hate any African American who succeeds on his/her own. Condoleza Rice, Ben Carson, RG III of the Redskins. Clarence Thomas etc etc etc. They ventured off the Democrat plantation and have been whipped by the liberal Democrat press.

You can twist historical facts all you want, the Democrat party has always been a party of racism.

In the charter debate the far left of the democrat party shows their lack of concern for the poor and unemployed of Youngstown. Even main line democrats such as Dave Betras have separated themselves form you guys.

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120cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Like I just said.

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121Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Yes. He is doing it again.

"The Democrat party of today is exactly the same as it has always been, whether from the north or the south."

You couldn't be more wrong. There was a huge difference between northern and southern democrats. And the democratic party today is the polar opposite party it was in Lincoln's day. You are so over your head here. Anyone with a knowledge of this history is cringing right now.

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122Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

"You can twist historical facts all you want, the Democrat party has always been a party of racism." - -Well folks how does he explain John F Kennedy desegregating the southern schools? JFK was in fact a democrat.

He has been busted again! You have lied.

"In the charter debate the far left of the democrat party shows their lack of concern for the poor and unemployed of Youngstown. Even main line democrats such as Dave Betras have separated themselves form you guys."- - - -You are trying to make it about party affilaition and it is NOT. Dave Betras is a free American with his own thoughts on the matter. He has every right to do so.

It isn't about party lines. Either you or Utica had ABC down as far left-she corrected you. It isn't about politics or political parties it is about individuals voting for what they believe to be the right path.

We are individuals who are looking at an issue. People don't have to fit in appropriate little boxes labeled conservative , liberal, constitution party, libertarian and on and on. We are all looking at this issue from an individual perspective. Sorry to disappoint you in your attempts to cause divisions but it is failing in fact.

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123Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

"The charter is Un American, it is anarchy. We have a form of government, we have a process to reform that government and you and you leftist friends refuse to work within that process. The reason you refuse to work within that system is that you know you cannot succeed. - -More babbling.

Look at how the campaign to pass the charter has been presented the voter. The campaign is all lies becasue you all know if you presented the truth there is no way it would pass."

- - -You are calling the charter "anarchy". Shame on you again I say shame on you. I am no" leftist " either. Apple pie with ice cream - - -Americana red , white and blue .I look at issues. I see you have gone to name calling and accusations which means of course that you have lost .You have been caught fabricating one thing after another time and time again.

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124Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC - -I saw that too.

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125cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkyWec...

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126UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

NO ONE IS GONNA STOP THE HOOD FROM GETTING WHAT BOARDMAN, AUSTINTOWN, POLAND,CANFIELD AND THE WHITE AREAS GOT.
WHY IS NOBODY HERE SPLAININ TO US IN YOUNGSTOWN WHY WE GET NOTHIN WHILE YOU GUYS GET CASH,HUH?
BROTHA CAMBRIDGE ALL YOU DID WAS JIVE, WHATS THE ANSWER BIGBEN AND ABC, YOU GUYS DON'T LIVE IN THE HOOD BUT YOU WANT TO PUNK US WHO DO. LEAVE US IN THE HOOD ALONE .
VOTE THE BIG NO TO THE CHARTER!

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127Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Utica is desperate Youngstown. He is not thinking of you he is thinking of Utica. Bigben drinks Meander water too.I don't get paid by the industry that is just triffling now Utica don't you feel salty?

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128oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Jobs,

This what shale development means to the poor and unemployed of Youngstown.

In each area of the country where shale development has occurred it has created jobs for the unemployed and the poor, and economic opportunity.

The charter amendment will kill existing jobs and prevent the creation of new jobs.

Vote for economic development in Youngstown, VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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129Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

oh13voter - -"jobs" -- - Yeah right. You mean the jobs that came here from other places. This job thing is no where near what the pro industry folks said it would be .

We have already heard the insults about how the hiring here wasn't going to be that great because the area is full of druggies. What bull. And now they expect us to believe this time it will be any different?

Then there are the spills, the illegal dumping,the earth quake and the willingness to frack even sacred places like cemeteries, recreational places like our park and even in our watershed? You have heard the arguments.Time to make an informed decision folks.

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130oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bb,

Yes we have heard the arguments presented by your side, I and others have debunked each one of them. But let's do it again.

Spills - this past year there were three separate incidents in Ohio, that I know of, where tanker trucks spilled their loads of gasoline. Should we ban the transport of gasoline in Ohio?

earthquakes - you or others have never presented any evidence that hydraulic fracturing has caused earthquakes in Ohio.

Where has a frac job taken place under a cemetery ? Frac jobs have taken place in our water shed for over thirty years without pollution.

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131Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

' I and others have debunked each one of them."- -I don't see it that way.

Spills -- Was there a spill or accident recently in Lowellville? When spills, accidents or intentional dumping of harmful substances occur near or in water it is especially worrisome.I heard a snip it about it but didn't see an article on the Vindy online. Do tell us what happened?

Frac jobs have taken place in our water shed for over thirty years without pollution. - - -No horizontal fraking has not taken place in the Meander watershed for over 30 years.

Oh and the cemetery - -Don't you remember the Vindy article that discussed the idea of fracking under Poland Cemetery? I think the idea was crushed. Good thing if it was crushed huh? Wouldn't that have been poor taste? Even to think about it?

earthquakes - -Don't you remember the big earth quake right here? See without the fracking fluid there would be no need for an injection site.And I think we in Ohio get fracking fluid from out of state . Correct me if I am wrong on that. But again just research it there is coverage about the earth quake in Youngstown online.

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132cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

UseiessShrimp....Hopes this helps MY BROTHA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Endozx...

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13376Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Utica & Oh13, bottom line...you're more upset that the charter will take away jobs in Youngstown than you are about your health & safety. It's all about money. Good for Youngstown for looking out for itself by demanding their environment be protected from harm.

If Youngstown wants opportunity to lift itself out of a rut, why not brings jobs to the area by having the top hospitals and doctors? Our young people can be trained and stay in the area offering their skills to an industry with good pay, benefits, longevity as well as being a safe environment in which to work. Pittsburgh and Cleveland have long been know as top rated places, why not Youngstown?

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134Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Have their been politicians who have voted for something without ever reading it?Can you imagine our representatives possibly voting on something without even reading it? Is that representation?

76ytown - -Your absolutely correct. These are the kinds of jobs we need. In fact the hospital in Boardman is expanding as we speak. We don't need jobs that could compromise our health and safety. What good is money without health ?

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135Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Cambridge - - -ROFL! What up pimpin?

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136Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

oh13voter

"Did I mention that the promoters of the charter amendment are predominantly white...." - - -Why do you talk about race here? What are you saying here? I thought this was an issue of horizintal fracking so what has race to do with it? white , Black, Red or Yellow we all need a healthy environment and clean water to drink.

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137oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Hydraulic fracturing associated with horizontally drilled wells is the same procedure used in vertically drilled wells. Well I guess they are different - hydraulic fracturing today is much improved.

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138oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Health and safety concerns verses jobs. This is a false choice. What health and safety concerns, oh you mena all of the ones that have been posted here and I have debunked ?

I'll take the jobs verses imagined boogey men.

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139oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Spills - I'll ask again; should we shut down gas stations or the transportation of gasoline to prevent spills from tanker trucks?

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140oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

I'll tell you what race has to do with this. I don't see you white, liberal (Democrat), suburbanites trying to push this garbage in you towns.

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141oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Cemeteries, typical liberal answer avoid the truth. There has not been a frac job under a cemetery in Youngstown.

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142Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

No there has not but there was talk of doing it. It stopped when people spoke out against it. If your kind had their way they that would not be allowed and the cemetery would have been fracked.

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143Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Did you catch that oh13 ? Are you denying that there was interest to frack Poland cemetery? You seem to have a problem with truth. Here maybe repetition will help you Poland Poland Poland Poland Poland Poland Poland Poland Poland Poland Poland Cemetery.

There was also mention of fracking Poland Woods. Poland Poland Poland Poland Poland Woods.

You also like to throw the words liberal around, leftist , anarchy. People are intelligent enough to see your game plan your smear campaign isn't working. Than you bring race into it and mention hate instead of love. Those who want health over corporate profits can see through your divisive schemes.You want to divide people instead of unite them because you know a united community can be accomplish great things .Divided and they can be plundered.

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144Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

oh13voter "I'll tell you what race has to do with this. I don't see you white, liberal (Democrat), suburbanites trying to push this garbage in you towns." - - -I can't say I am a Democrat. I am not a Republican either. I look at the individual issues. I don't think this is a Dem/ Rep conflict .I think this is more about which path to follow.

As far as Youngstown is concerned it is a start. Although the population has dropped considerably it is still rather densely populated. I am not crazy about horizontal fracking period. I think higher populated areas could have more people harmed though.

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145oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Bb,

You can't say your a Democrat or a Republican, that's ridiculous. How are you registered?

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146oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Other than the fact that this amendment attacks the Constitution of Ohio and the U.S. Constitution I have some other concerns about it's viability.

It lacks definition, it lacks enforcement powers it lacks defined measurable standards , it lacks everything a piece of legislation should include.

For instance: what does "... the right to breathe air untainted by toxins, carcinogens, particulates and other substances known to cause harm to health mean? That is right out of the amendment. There is no definitive definition for any of those terms. It could be car exhaust, lawnmower exhaust, cigarette smoke etc the smell of someone's deodorant.

What are the standards for measurement of untainted air? How will it be measured ? Who will measure it? How will the standards be enforced?

This amendment is madness waiting to happen. Thank goodness the Mayoral candidates see it as unenforceable. As well as the law director, which means they will ignore it if passed.

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147oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

The amendment takes away the personal property rights of city land owners.Under eminent domain laws landowners are compensated for the taking of their property.

The land owners of the city will demand payment for having their mineral rights taken from them. Paying this would bankrupt the city so of course they wouldn't pay. This would cause land owners to file lawsuits against the city. Defending against these lawsuits will also bankrupt the city.

Protect the personal property rights of city land owners and the finances of the city, VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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148oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

"Fracking is 100% safe..."

Here we are again, you folks just go around in circles.

There has never, never been an incident cited where hydraulic fracturing has caused pollution.
That's a pretty good safety record for a process used for over 67 years and 1.5 million times.

I know your next argument, but the hydraulic fracturing used now is new. Although I disagree I'll play along. Hydraulic fracturing associated with horizontal drilling has been used since 1983. That's 30 years without any citation for pollution, still a good safety record.

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149oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

As for Dr. Colborn, her work is all theoretical. She fed mice massive doses of chemicals. Even I could tell you the result, sick mice.

No such situation exists in actual practice. Her work means nothing.

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15076Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

ABC100: Here's OH13voter's pattern... you say it's black and he'll say it's white. Just a game. Also, notice that unlike the link you gave, and to support your evidence, he will only shoot off his "expert" opinion. He'll come back now and say that his is old data and that it is fracking has never been known to cause any harm. He only believes what his industry tells him.

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15176Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

What do drug dealers, pimps and frackers have in common?

They all provide a service, they all provide jobs, they all improve the economy with the money they spend locally and everybody goes away happy...(not)

"Lord, I apologize, and be with the starvin' Pygmies down there in New Guinea. Amen."

"Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your butt tomorrow.”
― Larry the Cable Guy

ROTFLMAO

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152Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Ytown - -Your right on the money . oh13 argues from ignorance and hopes those who read his drivel will be fooled by his baseless schemes. Truth science and history to him are what light is to vermin. Light shines and vermin scurry for cover.

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153Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

How did you folks like the scare tactics . Mineral rights.Now every person in Youngstown has gas and oil . What crap. Where is your proof? Where are these accusations based on pipe dreams?
Just click your heels 3 times with eyes closed and spin a round and every person in the area can be filthy rich? Really? How many cities that have been horizontally fracked have every person in them getting wealthy. Post the facts. I am calling you out again ! Post the CREDIBLE sources where every person in a horizontally fracked city has become rich. We are waiting.

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154Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

New York state court upholds town zoning laws to ban fracking

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155Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

New York state court upholds town zoning laws to ban fracking

http://news.yahoo.com/york-state-cour...

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156Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

New York state court upholds town zoning laws to ban fracking

http://news.yahoo.com/york-state-cour...

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157oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

I have held my most substantive comments until the end of the campaign.

My reasoning for engaging in the dialogue on this site has always been that far more people read this site than post. I have always directed my comments to the silent majority (mostly)

It is time to show the readers of this site that the supporters of the amendment have no substance just as the amendment has no substance.

The responses above are proof.

Thank you amendment supporters for making my point.

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158Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Hey oh13voter After your done blabbing up there read this.

New York state court upholds town zoning laws to ban fracking

http://news.yahoo.com/york-state-cour...

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159Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Oh oh13 I almost forgot . I re-posted this for you in case you missed it the first time.

SHOW US THE PROOF OF EVERYONE GETTING WEALTHY IN CITIES DUE TO HORIZONTAL FRACKING.I CALL B.S.

How many cities that have been horizontally fracked have every person in them getting wealthy. Post the facts. I am calling you out again ! Post the CREDIBLE sources where every person in a horizontally fracked city have become rich. We are waiting.

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160Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

To desire to horizontally frack under a cemetery, city, a park or a water supply in my opinion one must be morally bankrupt.

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161Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

I mean I can't believe the utter STUPIDITY , recklessness , immorality, greed and the public be damned attitude.

What kind of spineless, weak, money grubbing individuals would even consider going along with this nightmare.

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162Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

My dad told me that the MEANDER was guarded during World War 2 to protect this communities water supply from this nations ENEMIES. My how far we have come today.

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163oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 6 months ago

Liberalism is a Mental Disorder.

With each post you folks add to the body of evidence.

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164Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13 thinks you won't be able to garden if there is no fracking in Youngstown. LOL. . He isn't worried about your being able to drink non poisonous water he can't sleep at night over some imaginary fear of you loosing your right to garden. Hey genius there is no horizontal fracking now and people still garden.

Ding Ding Ding here comes Trolley to take oh13 to the land of make believe.Say hello to Henrietta while your there.

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165oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Big Lie 114,

The charter amendment protects the residents of the City of Youngstown.

It protects them from nothing. Instead it will divert economic development to other cities and areas. This will deprive the poor and unemployed of the economic opportunity shale development would bring.

The supporters of the charter amendment don't care about helping the poor and unemployed enjoy a better life.

On the other hand,I and others who oppose the charter amendment do not want to see the poor and unemployed miss this opportunity for a better life.

Please help economic prosperity return to Youngstown, VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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166Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Watch this hey oh13 can you provide wait for it credible evidence of any city in America where citizens have lost their right to garden when Horizontal fracking was banned.
Your delusional. He just makes it up as he goes along.I call BS again.

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167UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Mrs. Maddox owns 4 acres on the eastside of Youngstown. If a ban is enacted preventing Mrs. Maddox from profiting from her mineral rights, who will compensate Mrs. Maddox for this loss?
This question has nothing to do with the issue of fracking.
Big B, ABC, Cambridge, YTown, please answer this question legally and with substantial justice and I will stand down.

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168cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100...very powerful videos.

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169UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Mrs. Maddox does not have the right to poison her neighbors...........ABC, I see. people are being poisoned. Very good then, thank you for your answer.

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170oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Mrs Frederick is a fraud.

There are no horizontally drilled , hydraulically fraced wells near her home.

When she began her misinformation campaign She didn't have her water tested.

She didn't file a complaint with the Health Department.

She didn't file a complaint with the ODNR.

She is a fraud. So is Dr. Ingraffea.

Don't be misled by frauds presenting fraudulent information, VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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171cambridge(3034 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ohoh13....what is your source for your last statement? You make outrageous statements and NEVER offer any proof to back them up. NEVER.

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172oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

There are three sources, Mrs. Frederick, the ODNR office in Uniontown, and the County Health Department in Austintown.

The woman in the video states that the DEP did not find any connection between fracing and the methane in her water. The area is known for migratory methane, which she mentions in the video.
There are areas of PA without shale development. They have methane in their water due to migratory methane.

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173oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

The video you posted about fracing says tuna have high levels of mercury. Last I checked there are no tuna in PA or OH.

You fractivists may have found your new slogan;

SAVE THE TUNA OF OHIO
STOP FRACING !

or

FRAC FREE TUNA !

Help stop the insanity, VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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174oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Please review the video. She does not say the test after well completion was 64.

This is a textbook liberal fractivist technique, twist facts.

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175oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Free The Tuna from fractivist bondage.

You guys are great.

VOTE NO MAY 7TH !

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176Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

So then oh13 migratory methane is going to be the battle cry for the industry if people have issues with fracking fluid? No issues can exist? just say it was there all along ? Gee I wonder where the methane migrated from?

Look closely at what he is saying everyone.

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17776Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13voter is just playing a game.

He is actually the best spokesperson for the community bill of rights! Just listening to him shows what fracking can do to your brain.

Vote yes on Tuesday. No amount of money can buy our health. Our water supply is finite. We can find another energy source, but we can never replace our water. All life depends on it.

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17876Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

UticaShale: post # 217: "Mrs. Maddox owns 4 acres on the eastside of Youngstown. If a ban is enacted preventing Mrs. Maddox from profiting from her mineral rights, who will compensate Mrs. Maddox for this loss?
This question has nothing to do with the issue of fracking.
Big B, ABC, Cambridge, YTown, please answer this question legally and with substantial justice and I will stand down."

Lets just pretend... Mrs. Maddox owns 4 acres on the eastside of Youngstown. She wants to farms marijuana to sell to a drug dealer who will then sell to children which causes harm. The city says that she cannot farm marijuana. Who will compensate her for her loss?

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179Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Well said 76!

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180oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
You are a typical liberal, you all misuse facts.

The woman states that DEP said her methane problem was not associated with shale development.

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181oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

John McNally and Tito Brown agree with me, the charter is bad and should not pass (along with the majority of Council)

The people behind this amendment aren't even from Youngstown. Your Mayor, Mayoral candidates and City Council know this.

Support your city government, VOTE NO tomorrow, MAY 7TH

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182Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13 Full of Bull. Just look at the issue and ask yourself is it worth it? Is it worth all the risks to air , land and water and the health our loved ones? Think of the children and infants who will protect them?

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183Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13 is not from Youngstown. Read his posts and discover he claims to live in Meander and to be an employee with the Board Of Elections. I will bet I live a lot closer to Youngstown than he does and my parents are there as are my old neighbors.

Vote yes!

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184Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

I found these versus in the Bible about lying
New International Version (©2011)John 10:10
"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

New International Version (©2011)John 8:44
"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

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185oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

One again voters, there you have it.
This is the best that the supporters of the amendment have - name calling. As usual no facts or scientific evidence.

These people are all from outside the city. I would look to those from your city for direction on this issue. Your Mayor, Council members and candidates all agree the amendment is a bad idea.

Help turn around the economic fortunes of your city, VOTE NO TODAY !

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186Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13
"These people are all from outside the city. "- --You said you live outside the city. What lies you tell.

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187williamsbilly201(18 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

And the anti-fracking joke amendment goes down....

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188UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Cambridge, BigB, ABC, YTown, SonofL, and the few other fractivist should now be forever banned from the Vindy and from pitching their Marxist agenda. Let this be a leson that there is no room for the hipsters and occupiers anymore. The young capitalist and innovators are returning to make Youngstown an industrial giant again. YES!

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189oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Congratulations Youngstown !
Better days will soon be here.

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190oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

You and others have used this canard that Youngstown has been targeted by the industry.

How many rigs are working in or near Youngstown ? The answer is 0.

Yet there are over 60 rigs working in the state.

That doesn't sound like targeting to me.

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191UticaShale(854 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

"How does it feel, how does it feel, to be on your own, no direction known, A COMPLETE UNKNOWN............."

Dedicated to CAMBRIDGE< BIG< ABC< METZ and all the other losers in the FrackFree movement. I'm glad we kicked you outsiders out of Youngstown.

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192RTS1416(117 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC, The only areas that this type of energy exploration "targets" are the areas with the type of shale formations that contain the oil and gas reserves. The oil and gas industry cannot find a poor uneducated community and expect there to be gas and oil reserves there. Also, I don't know whats up with the green teeth hippie thing, I guess some people just like name calling.

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193oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Abc100,
There is something you can do, get involved. The right way. The way that has always been there. You have been lied to by the fractivists, the amendment was not the only way to deal with concerns about oil and gas development.

Contact the ODNR about your concerns. Contact and work with your state rep and state senator. Contact the appropriate house and senate committees about your concerns.

Yes the fractivists hate this process but guess what ? That is how our government is organized, they are anarchists.

I have concerns about oil and gas development and this is how I address them. Complete bans are nonsense since we all use oil and gas.

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194Metz10987(145 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

May 7th proves you really can buy votes. When you outspend the opposition 60 to 1 you will et the result you want. congrats for lying to people and getting just enough votes to get your way for now but this fight is not over. Expect to see it back on the ballot this September when people will actually vote. less then 6,000 out of 70,000 total people is a insult.

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195oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Metz,

Where is your proof that the opposition out spent proponents 60-1. typical liberal with the lies.

BTW there is no election in September.

ABC you are a typical liberal, attack the person not the message. If you have ever heard the Mayor speak you would know that the commercial sounded just like him. The end of the commercial said that the pipe fitters union paid for the commercial. Hardly big oil and gas which is the lie people like your self and Metz spread. Typical liberal tactic.
Another liberal tactic is to deny you lost, that the election was stolen. No, the voters saw through the liberal lies that you and people like Metz were spreading on this site.

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196oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
You might be a liberal if.... You don't believe in personal property rights.
You supported the amendment which was an attack on personal property rights. You are a liberal.

Personal responsibility ? Why can't people responsibly decide to lease or not lease their property ? The amendment would have taken that away from people. You supported the amendment which took away peoples personal responsibility. You are a liberal.

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197oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Response to 262

You have been so brain washed it is sad.
NY is controlled by the liberal left. Of course you like what they have done because you are a liberal.

What is the difference between vertical drilling and horizontal drilling (other than the obvious) ?

Fracturing was used in vertical wells and is now used in horizontal wells so it isn't new.

I helped design "slick water" frac jobs in the 1980's. The first wells to be drilled into a shale formation was 1983. That well and the subsequent horizontal wells all employed slick water fracturing. 30 years of unconventional drilling. So you are wrong it is not new. I bet you don't even know what slick water frac means.

Multiple well pad - these pads can have up to 8 or more wells on them. In order to do the same work you would have to have 18-20 vertical well pads. So which is more environmentally friendly -20 vertical 3 acre pads or one 10 acre pad ? Buzzzzzz! times up ! One 10 acre pad.
Answer to slick water frac question. Surfactants are added to the water to make it"wetter", it reduces friction. Surfactants are commonly found in many household items like dish washing liquids (Dawn). Surfactants have been used in frac water since the seventies or earlier.
You don't know what you are talking about because you only refer to liberal web sites that lie.

Do some real research. But I know that won't happen because liberals hate research because it might reveal the truth, and liberals hate the truth.

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198oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Did you ever drive by the injection well site? I know the answer. NO! You might have found the truth which as a liberal would have caused serious emotional distress.

The truth is that Ms. Frederick was lying. The injection well could not have caused her maladies. It is not in operation.

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199oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
There is no science behind the NY issue. In fact after 3 years the science proved just the opposite and the moratorium should be lifted. The legislature asked for another study, it came back supporting shale development.The only thing standing in the way is the Governor,and the other liberals that run the state. not some mythical impact statement/
There is no horizontal shale drilling going on. Talk about twisting facts.
You elitist liberals kill. You get to decide how much responsibility a person has for their life. In your mind the people of Youngstown aren't smart enough to make the decision about oil and gas development.
Another typical liberal tactic, when you lose one argument go back to an old one. There is no proof that shale development lowers property values NONE! There is no evidence of "poisoning" NONE ! As I said typical liberal tactic.

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200oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
Do you know how silly you come across?

According to you the people of OH should look to Albany NY before making decisions about OH.
Hey maybe we should move the capital of the country to Albany. I'm sure you would agree with that, after all you seem to think those folks in Albany are smarter than the rest of us.
The fact is, the state is controled by leftist liberals. There is no science behind their actions with regard to shale development, just ideology. And being a liberal you of course agree with that.
Have you driven by the injection well yet ?

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201oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Yes companies will foot the bill, in fact in PA it's the law until the DEP makes a finding. Here in OH it is part of lease language.The company is required to respond to a complaint of contamination by replacing the water supply until a final determination is made.
Class action suit ? What a joke , just liberal gold diggers hoping to get an undeserved nuisance settlement.
Look where many of the videos are posted, on sites that pay you for each hit.
This is truly sad, everything you listed is anecdotal. No concrete proof of damage.
What a lame excuse for not going by the injection well.Chicken, buck, buck, buck, bwawk !

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202oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
So are you saying that anyone that shows up in the ER with bronchitis must have been around a shale well?
I mean we all know how rare bronchitis is, and how few things cause it. Gee you must be right We don't need to see Dr. reports or test results do we ? we'll just take their word for it.
And of course the only cause for chemicals in blood and urine is shale development. So we don't need to see copies of the tests and other documentation. We'll just take someone's word for it.

How do you know that all the cows died at the same time, and it was related to shale development? Oh that's right the guy said so without showing proof.

You probably stop for those people with the work for food signs don't you ?

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203oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
What is the source of the chemicals ? Not your opinion, provide actual documentation.

No one suggested that the doctors were bribed. I am telling you there are no records connecting their maladies to shale development.

Provide them or admit you are wrong. I won't hold my breath since you still have not taken my challenge to the misinformation presented by Ms. Frederick.

At least you admit you do stop and give money to those chralatans, proves my point.

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204Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

If God came down and spoke to you you would argue with Him because your nature from what I have seen is to deny and lie. Every farmer on youtube is a liar who has posted about horizontal fracking mishaps? Not one is truthful ? But you expect folks to believe you after all the BS you spewed here?

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205oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100, Bb,

You still have not provided documented proof. All you cite is anecdotal (word of mouth).
I keep asking you guys for proof. I'm waiting.
For instance, there is no documented proof that "There are many residents of northeastern Pennsylvania who have been forced into relying on outside water..." due to shale development.
There just isn't any documented proof.
Again, all you provide is stories, unproven stories. Oh, have to go Peter Cotton Tail is at the door.

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206oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
As for the gag order; it's a myth.
OSHA and several other federal and state agencies demand availability of any and all components used on any job site including well sites. States such as OH require the disclosure of the additives used in frac fluids. Ever hear of an MSDS sheet ?
You really should do some research instead of relying on the leftist web sites you frequent. But you can't help yourself, can you ? being the liberal you are.

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207oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Still no documentation of your wild claims.
...been to the injection well ?
I'll check back later

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208oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

I am not questioning the doctor. I am asking you to show the documentation connecting the chemical to shale development.
Which of course you continue to ignore.
Show me the proof ! Show me the documentation !
Who cares about an independent study performed by liberals. Where is the documentation from the DEP, EPA etc ? Where ?
And, there you go again with the personal attack, that's tactic number one or two from the liberal play book.
I lie for billionaires ? Do you believe that the people behind the leftist environmental agenda are poor ? So naive ! They make millions of this nonsense, does Al Gore ring a bell ?
Yes, I would allow someone to fill a spray bottle with brine and spritz it in the air in a room with my family in it.

Still waiting for documentation connecting the chemicals in the blood to shale development. Still waiting to hear your report from your visit to the injection well.

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209oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

While waiting for you to provide documentation I thought I'd share these thoughts with you.

The scientific consensus concerning the safety of horizontal drilling, hydraulic fracturind, and shale development is well established (by documentation). State regulators, officials in the Clinton, Bush, and Obama Administrations, Democrats, Republicans, governors and independent reviews, including one conducted by the current Energy Secretary , have all affirmed that shale development, dependent upon horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, doesn't pose a credible risk to the nation's water and air. In fact, the increased use of natural gas has brought about a reduction in toxic emissions, and greenhouse gases over the last 20 years.

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210Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Yes he would ABC.

He simply denies the sky exists so then how can it be blue ? He lives in the land of Peter Cottontail as he said in his post.

All he has to do is spin around and close his eyes click his heels and say it doesn't exist and poof nothing ever happened. Isn't that a part of mental illness?

We try to communicate straight forward questions and he ignores them and writes liberal down instead and mentions Peter Cottontail at his door.Could there be something wrong with him?

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211oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
You liberals kill me, always mis-state what your opposition says.
My response was to a statement he cited from the article. The statement was that of the author, notice no quotation marks or citations to a person. In other words it was the writers opinion.
Second: Remember that the writer was discussing the information they gleaned from letters of determination obtained from the State of PA. Yes the article was full of statistics and other information such as this quote :
"-The conclusions described in the determination Letters are seldom absolute because substances read as signals of drilling-related contamination are also routine signs of other man made or natural resources."
Here's a dandy:
" A 2011 Penn State study found that about 40 percent of water wells it tested prior to gas well drilling failed at least one federal drinking water standard...Pennsylvania is one of only a few states in the nation that does not have private water well construction standards." Such as having water well casing.
I know that your reading comprehension is bad so I will explain: what this means is that many of the water wells were already contaminated from other sources.
"The letters obtained by the Sunday Times describe an array of problems that exist in PA water supplies unrelated to oil and gas exploration, like high metal, salt and methane content... invading poorly constructed water wells.

How about that information from the article ? Kinda puts your stuff to shame !

Try reading the whole article as I suggested yesterday. Stop cutting and pasting stuff from your libearl web sites.

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212oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100, Bb,
You constantly claim to use facts, but don't.
The first well into a shale formation combining horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing was 1983, over thirty years ago.
I notice today that you acknowledge that it has been used for 20 years. When we began this discussion you claimed it was only 5 years old.

See, now that's the problem with a lie, you always have to remember it. Whereas the truth is the truth.

Not only would I allow brine to be sprayed in a room where my family and I were siting I would do the sraying.

You and Bb are so busy being condescending that you missed the point. The point being is that being near brine is not dangerous. Just because you believe the lies on your liberal web sites doesn't make it so. In fact in may areas brine can legally be spread for weed control and dust control.

I see you still have not provided documentation, proof . Typical liberals

Yet if I or others make a claim you and Bb are quick to demand the same from us. Hypocrites.

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213oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100, Bb,

Neither of you has provided evidence of your claim that fracing is different now.
I have explained my view that it is not several times.
How is it different? Slick water is not an acceptable answer. Slick water fracs have been performed at least since 1970's. Don't believe me, call a servic company like Universal or Schlumberger, and ask them when they first began using slick water frac technology.

Of course you won't just as you never went to the injection well, and never called the Health Dept or the ODNR .

Instead you rely on teenage word games. I made a mistake in assuming I was dealing with adults. Do you guys play games when you're in bed together? Please provide details.

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214oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

You still didn't answer the question what makes horizontal drilling different from vertical drilling ? How is the use of hydraulic fracturing different in vertical wells and horizontal wells.?

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215oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Please prove your (false) claim that hydraulic fracturing is only 5 years old.
Please cite reliable sources, not some left wing web site or blog

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21676Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

OH13voter...#298

The difference is the amount of fracking fluid that is used in the fracturing process. The fluid is made of water along with mixes of chemicals. In a conventional vertical well, the amount used is up to 80,000 gallons but a horizontal, or high-volume well, can use 100 times as much.

http://www.onearth.org/blog/ny-fracki...

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217oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

76Ytwn,
Thanks for the answer. The other two refused to answer.

The higher volume of water is due to the number of stages fraced. In other words these are separate frac jobs in one well bore, somewhere between 15-30 (+/-) stages per well.

In order to perform the same work through vertical wells it would take 15 -30 separate vertical well sites, affecting far more surface area.

So horizontal drilling combined with hydraulic fracturing is more environmentally friendly.

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21876Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13voter...post 301; "So horizontal drilling combined with hydraulic fracturing is more environmentally friendly."

WRONG.

• HVHF uses 70 to 300 times more fluid than old hydrofracking.
.
• More Chemicals: 700 to 2,800 lbs. of chemical additives, vs 205,000 to 935,000 lbs., many of which are toxic to humans and wildlife. A typical 7-well site could receive 4 million lbs. of chemicals.

• The Halliburton Act EXCLUDES the oil/gas industry from clean water laws.

• More Toxic Waste Requiring Disposal: One 7-well pad per square mile creates an amount of toxic waste fluid equivalent to 1,000 traditional wells per square mile.

• More Truck Traffic: A typical Marcellus well pad with 7 wells adds about 13,000 round-trip truck trips to local roads.

• More Fresh Water Used: HVHF of just one well removes 5.6 million gallons of fresh water, 1.9 times used to each day to supply 30,000 people.

• More Drill Cuttings Requiring Disposal: A traditional vertical well 3,000’ deep creates about 54 cu. yds. of drill cuttings. A HVHF well to the same depth creates 94 cubic yards, 74% more. Cuttings contain radioactive materials, heavy metals, and various toxic chemicals, depending on the types of drilling muds (fluids) used.

• Larger Disturbed Areas: HVHF well pads are larger (4 to 5 cleared acres) than those for traditional wells (2 to 3 acres) because (1) they must store more fluid, chemicals, drill cuttings, drilling fluids, and equipment, and (2) they are expected to contain multiple wells. Creating more run-off, siltation, and visual scars, and disturb more forest or agricultural land.

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21976Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13voter....#299: "Please prove your (false) claim that hydraulic fracturing is only 5 years old.

Read my post #24 above. I can't be responsible for your short attention span or the fact that you've been brainwashed by the oil/gas industry.

I'll bet you still believe that cigarettes are good for you. "More Doctors Smoke Camel Than Any Other Cigarette" http://wellmedicated.com/lists/40-gor...

Remember the Marlborough Man!

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220oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

76Ytown,
Horizontal wells are more environmentally friendly than vertical drilling.
Each horizontal well is equal to 15 - 30 vertical well there will be 6-8 horizontal wells drilled on one pad so one 7-10 acre well pad will hold the equivalent of 90 plus vertical wells. So would you prefer one 10 acre horizontal pad or 90 3 acre vertical pads ?

Each horizontal well will return twice as much water vapor to the water system than it uses. In fact it will return all the water used in the fracing process within 6 months.

The radionuclides in drill cuttings are no more "toxic" than the NORM we are exposed to each day.

No more drill cuttings, no more truck traffic, Less more disturbed ground, less run off, less disturbed forest, less disturbed agricultural area, because one horizontal well pad is equal to 90 vertical well pads.

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221oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

76Ytown,

Post 24 above is Constructor not you.

I'll answer the question for you, it is much older than 5 years old.

Horizontal drilling combined with hydro fracing was first used in 1983 in the Austin Chalk of TX.

Mitchell Energy first used the combination in the Barnett Shale in 1987, although full scale use didn't occur until the early 1990's.

By my math that's over twenty years, not five.

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22276Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Horizontal hydraulic fracturing is different from traditional drilling and vertical fracking techniques that have been used for years. This technique, commonly called “fracking”, has only been in standard use in the last 7-10 years. It drills thousands of feet vertically and then drills horizontally, up to 2 miles, with high velocity seismic injection of fracking fluid and sand. It uses many hundreds of times more water (2-5 million gallons per frack and each well can be refracked multiple times) than vertical fracking. It then has to dispose of that water, contaminated by toxic fracking chemicals and the minerals that it brings up from underground (some radioactive, some of which can combine to make the highly toxic gas, hydrogen sulfide). About 50% of the toxified water remains underground. It takes longer than vertical fracking and requires a huge scale industrial operation, with massive heavy tanker truck traffic of about 1,200 tanker truck trips per frack (transporting clean water, fracking fluids, etc.).

Fracking history:
Early 1900s Natural gas extracted from shale wells. Vertical wells fractured with foam.
1983 First gas well drilled in Barnett Shale in Texas
1980-1990s Cross-linked gel fracturing fluids developed and used in vertical wells
1991 First horizontal well drilled in Barnett Shale
1991 Orientation of induced fractures identified
1996 Slickwater fracturing fluids introduced
1996 Microseismic post-fracturing mapping developed
1998 Slickwater refracturing of originally gel-fractured wells
2002 Multi-stage slickwater fracturing of horizontal wells
2003 First hydraulic fracturing of Marcellus Shale
2005 Increased emphasis on improving the recovery factor
2007 Use of multi-well pads and cluster drilling

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223Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13

"ABC100, Bb,

Neither of you has provided evidence of your claim that fracing is different now." - - -Read what 76 has posted above. This will save much time and effort.There is your evidence are you understanding the differences now? They are not the same.

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224Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13

""The letters obtained by the Sunday Times describe an array of problems that exist in PA water supplies unrelated to oil and gas exploration, like high metal, salt and methane content... invading poorly constructed water wells." - - -So now you cut and paste when you accuse me of the same thing. Now your blaming poorly constructed water wells? you seeing all this folks. He never blames fracking or injecting only water well construction, wandering methane , in general preexisting issues or the people that report issues are simply all liars right oh13? All the you tube complaints all are liars in your opinion ? All the farmers are liars? All the professionals mentioned thus far are liars?

But we are expected to believe you?So is every single well in PA that has had issues with fracking in their area poorly constructed? Not even one well constructed well in the whole big state? Your in Peter Cottontail land alright.

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225oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Bb,

The article never mentions hydraulic fracturing once as a cause for the :problems " with water wells;

it is not I making the statements about poorly constructed wells, it is the article. Of course since you only read the headline, and didn't read the article you wouldn't know that.

There has never been a documented citation of water well pollution where fracing has contaminated a water well. Never.

I know you believe I am wrong so please produce the documentation. Of course we both know you can't.

As for the farmers and Youtube videos, please provide the documentation that claims fracing caused the problems they claim.

See you liberals are all the same, all talk no substance.

The substance is documentation.

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226oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

The timeline set out by 76 is misleading which isn't surprising since we know it came from a leftist web site.
Facts maybe, but lifted out of context, a typical liberal tactic.

The one I do like is - first horizontal well drilled in Barnett Shale. What isn't mentioned is that this well was hydraulically fractured, and yes it was slickwater frac.

According to my math that is 22 years ago not the five you all claim.

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227oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
You can rant on and on all you want about doctors. But until you provide documentation connecting the ills of people to fracing it's all just talk.

Oh that's right, you can't provide documentation because it doesn't exist.

So revert back to the old liberal tactic of the personal attack.

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228oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

You mean the article that says"...according to the ODNR,,,continued staggering growth..." ?
That in 2011 shale wells produced about 1% of the NG in Ohio and as of 2012 now produce 16%.

As usual you as a liberal lift a line or two from an article to suit your false narrative.

At least you are predictable and consistent.

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229Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13 So you are calling all those people liars is that right? You know farmers are the backbone of this country and for you to question them these hard working people that get up early and go to bed late so you can stuff yourself as much as you like and you have to gall to suggest that American farmers would just fabricate is just really hard to fathom.

I mean every single one of them who has claimed to have negative issue with horizontal fracking are all liars? Are you hearing this farmers?I got to tell you the farmers I know are handshake look you in the eye good God fearing people.Wow I am amazed.

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230oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Bb,

Where is the documentation ?

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23176Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13voter...post 312, as usual, you do not prove what you claim to be the "facts". Prove your statements!

The fact is that horizontal wells were introduced into the Barnett Shale in Texas in 2002-2003. That information is directly from their own website.

The Marcellus Shale gas boom began with the drilling and hydraulic fracturing of the Renz Well in 2004. (from their website)

The Renz well is located in Mt Pleasant Township between the towns of Westland and Hickory, Pennsylvania was the first slick water frac east of the Mississippi, and is considered to be the 1st Marcellus Shale well drilled.

Maybe you don't understand vertical vs horizontal?

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232oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

I am not accusing the farmers of anything.

I am asking you to substantiate and document your claims.

Where is the documentation ?

You can't provide it because it doesn't exist . So instead of being honest and admit that you post undocumented misinformation you switch the subject.

Typical liberal tactic.

It's simple call the state and ask for the documentation connecting the pollution and illnesses to fracing.

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233oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

76Ytown,

As usual you post partial information and falese information.

Your math skills suck. 2013 - 2004 = 9 years not five. So why would anyone accept any other of the misinformation that you post.

It doesn't matter when horizontal wells were introduced into the Barnett. The fact is that the combination of horizontal drilling and hydro fracturing was occurred long before that.

The Renz well may have been the first slickwater frac job east of the Mississippi. That doesn't mean the process wasn't used prior to this west of the Mississippi.

This what I mean when I say you present partial information, and you do it in order to deceive. Just as ABC100 does with her posts.

It's dishonest, but as we know dishonesty is a liberal trait/character flaw.

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234oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

You Might Be A Liberal If...

You live in a fantasy world where you think you are smarter than everyone else. Fracing is only 5 years old.

You think that it isn't racist to believe that minorities need your help to make decisions.Like what to believe about shale development.

Wow. does that fit you guys to a "T"

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23576Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13voter, If anyone lives in a fantasy world it is you.

The following are exact words from oh13voters previous comments used to describe other commenters to this forum:

Liberal (used in most of your posts), dishonest, warped narrative, hypocrites, insinserity of the liberal mind, insane claims, typical liberal standard, personal attacks, make things up to fit your agenda, preconceived conclusion, typical liberal tactic, use misinformation and lies to make your point, suffer from the disorder of liberalism, using innuendo, hyperbole rumor, and out right lies, Liberalism is a Mental Disorder, suffer from a lack of basic moral principals, will lie to meet their goal,

And you accuse others of continually using derogatory terms?

For your information, here's the definition of liberal:
1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others
2. progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual
3. generous: freely giving money, time, or some other asset

Synonyms: open-minded, broad-minded, moderate, noninterventionist, freethinking, tolerant, laissez-faire

I've never thought of myself as a liberal, but with the above definition I guess I should be flattered. LOL

You also accuse others as not providing documentation. I challenge you to read your 337 posts and prove where you have ever given documentation to substantiate your claims. Your bully style of disagreeing with anything presented is not working any more. Sorry, but you are just making a fool of yourself. Do yourself and your family a huge favor and stop believing everything told to you by the oil/gas industry as truth. These are serious issues, not a joking matter. The image I am now getting of you getting while playing your game is creeping me out.

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236oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

It is irresponsible to oppose the development of clean affordable reserves of natural gas from shale.
It's irresponsible if you don't offer a viable replacement.

The liberal fractivist claims to be the protector of the environment, that is a lie. The liberal fractivist opposes the development of natural gas from shale.
Over the last twenty years the number one reason for the reduction of toxic emissions has been the conversion to clean burning natural gas.

President Bill Clinton - the anti oil and gas factions in the country needs to end it's attack on clean burning natural gas.

Liberal fractivists are hypocrites. If they truly believed their lies they would stop using all forms of fossil fuels. Which would mean no lights or heat, and air conditioning in their homes. They would stop driving cars. They would have to grow all of their own food since agriculture is heavily dependent on oil and natural gas.

Liberal fractivists such as ABC100, Bb, 76Ytown won't because they are hypocrites like all liberal fractivists.

They talk the talk but are cowards because they can't walk the walk.

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23776Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13voter: There you go again... liberal fractivists are hypocrites, cowards. According to you: " If they truly believed their lies they would stop using all forms of fossil fuels. Which would mean no lights or heat, and air conditioning in their homes. They would stop driving cars. They would have to grow all of their own food since agriculture is heavily dependent on oil and natural gas."

oh13voter: Sorry to disagree, but we CAN live without fossil fuels, but we CANNOT survive without our water supply. Lights, heat, air conditioning and cars CAN be run with alternative methods. Agriculture dependent on oil & gas...again alternatives available.

Necessity is the mother of all invention. I have faith that we have the ability to solve our energy problems without destroying our planet.

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238Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Bigben

"You think that it isn't racist to believe that minorities need your help to make decisions.Like what to believe about shale development.

Wow. does that fit you guys to a "T" "- - - - -Now you call people racists because they care for their fellow human beings and you try to turn that into something evil. You are sick and twisted as your posts bare out.

As for documentation people have posted documentation here before and time and time again you deny it. You can never admit your wrong.Where is your documentation concerning each individual situation. You have bashed the concerned citizens , doubt the farmers and land owners basically saying they are all liars called people horrible names and used innuendo. What is wrong with you do you understand how you come across to people?You are a nightmare for the interests you serve.

I noticed again you didn't answer my questions but choose to ignore them again. Why won't you answer them?

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239Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

"There has never been a documented citation of water well pollution where fracing has contaminated a water well. Never." - -So everyone who has ever stated a problem with [water well pollution] (your words) must be a LIAR since it has "never" happened ? You know some sources tell you when people use words like never and always it can be indicative of a person not being completely honest.

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240oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Bb,

"...must be a liar..." are your words and your assumption.

As usual your reading comprehension stinks.

There has Never (yes I used the word again) been a connection citation made between a claim of water well pollution and fracing, NEVER.

The key word here is "documented".

All you and ABC100 have to do to prove my "Never" statement wrong is to provide the "documents" connecting fracing to water well pollution. There should be an EPA report with findings or a DEP report with findings.

Where is the documentation ?

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241oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Bb,

Response to 326.

Again with the personal attacks, and no facts typical liberal.

There has never been any documentation posted on this site for the claims that have been made.

The only thing ever posted are videos and hearsay stories.
There has never been any documentation of the claims in the videos or the stories.

The reason you and ABC100 never post documentation is that you know that it doesn't exist. That is dishonesty at it's worst.

As for how I come across, worry about yourself.

Just show the documents that back up the stories in the videos and this discussion ends.

But there aren

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242oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

76Ytown,

Prove you can live without fossil fuels start today!

Call this newspaper, they would love the story.

But you won't. Why ? you don't have the courage to, and you're a hypocrite.

There are no viable alternatives. Again a typical baseless liberal statement.

Hey, if there are viable alternatives why aren't you using them ? Hypocrite.

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243oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Bb,

The reason there is a need for documentation is the videos you guys post are edited, and don't always tell the whole story.

For example; ABC100 posted a video of Sherry Vargson from Lucerne PA. She talked about the methane in her water, the sputtering, the fizzing, being able to light it on fire etc.

Here is "the rest of the story". Once Chesapeake was made aware of her claims they sent their representatives out to investigate.

Now remember Mrs Vargson admits that there was methane in their water well prior to any shale activity on her property.

What the representatives found was that the methane venting cap on their well (by the Vargsons) had not been properly maintained or cleaned This prevented the proper venting of methane from their water well. They also Compared samples of the well taken prior to drilling and those taken after. There was no change.

The "whole" story was reported in a Rolling Stone article 3-2-2012.

The "whole" story, not like the edited story told in the video posted by ABC100.

This is why I want documentation, you guys can't be trusted.

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244oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Last Thursday the U.S. Dept. of the Interior released a draft proposal that would establish common-sense safety standards for hydraulic fracturing on public lands.

The draft rule also acknowledged that "...hydraulic fracturing can be conducted in an environmentally safe manner,..."

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245Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Bb,

" "...must be a liar..." are your words and your assumption.

As usual your reading comprehension stinks." - -Go back and reread again I won't make fun of your lack of reading skills.I put your words in brackets and quotation marks. How do you keep up with all the lies is it getting more difficult I bet.

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246Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13 "You think that it isn't racist to believe that minorities need your help to make decisions.Like what to believe about shale development.'

- -Let me ask you some questions how do you know I am not a minority ?How did you arrive at your conclusion? What difference would that make whether I am or I am not?What does race have to do with anything involving fracking ? Isn't Youngstown comprised of multiple races and ethnic groups? Very interesting.

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247oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

You May Be A Liberal If...

... you continually deny facts.

... you continue to defend misinformation that has been proven wrong.

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248oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Recently completed study on hydrofracing.

Gradient Environmental Consulting.

The report examined two potential exposure pathways for hydraulic fracturing fluids to impact human health.

First: upward migration from the shale formation.
" It is implausible that the fluids pumped into the target formation would migrate from the target formation through (thousands of feet) of overlying bedrock to reach shallow aquifers."
" There is no scientific basis for significant upward migration of hydraulic fracturing fluid or brine from tight target formations in sedimentary basins."

IMPLAUSIBLE NO SCIENTIFIC BASIS

Second: surface incidents such as spills or other releases.

" Human health risks associated with potential surface spills containing hydraulic fracturing constituents are expected to be insignificant with respect to both impacts USDWs (underground sources of drinking water) and impacts to surface waters due to dilution mechanisms which are expected to reduce concentrations in potable aquifers and surface waters to levels below health-based drinking water concentrations in the event of surface spills."

In the case of shale development, and hydraulic fracturing specifically, the verdict is clear; the risks from such activity are almost non-existent, and pushing for bans, moratoriums, and other restrictions based on manufactured fears of risks is simply not a fact based position.

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249oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Answer the question about hippuric acid.

How is it used in drilling and/or completing a shale well ?

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250oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Answer the question;

How is phenol used in the drilling and or completion of a shale well ?

Bwaaak, bwaak, bwaak, bwaak , bwaak!

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251oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

I can't find the other videos about the animals and the one about the people with the lesions.
Could you please re-post them.

Now that I have debunked the Vargson video I am ready to deal with those videos.

How do we know there was hippuric acid and phenol in the water well(s) ? There must be a water test report. Do you have a copy of the report ?

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252Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC Said,

"Oh13... can you please answer why a ventilation system was installed by the company? Surely no company would install a ventilation system for someone if the methane had nothing to do with them."- - - - - - - -Excellent point!!!!!!!

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253oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

After inspecting the vent cap that was installed prior to drilling operations the company rep informed the Vargsons that it had not been properly maintained and cleaned. Therefore it was not properly venting methane from the well.

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254oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

You Might Be A Liberal If...

...you believe everything in an intentionally edited Youtube video.

Good thing you aren't an attorney, you'd be a very bad one.

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255oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

How is hippuric acid connected to shale well development?

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256Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13

"Good thing you aren't an attorney, you'd be a very bad one" - -- Seriously? You didn't even realize that public knowledge didn't need to be quoted and your insulting her? You need to go back to whatever law school you attended and get some refreshing maybe drink some coffee and stay awake next time around.

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257Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

'ABC100,

After inspecting the vent cap that was installed prior to drilling operations the company rep informed the Vargsons that it had not been properly maintained and cleaned. Therefore it was not properly venting methane from the well." - - -I thought you said there has "never" been an incident with the horizontal fracking process. Game set and match and right from your own lips.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TejlWkFDHDc

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258Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch

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259Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSQNl4...

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260Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSQNl4...

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261oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Bb,

The vent cap was installed on their water well because they have always had methane in their water.

In other words (and I'm typing slowly) the methane in their water wasn't caused by fracing it was there long before the well was ever drilled or fraced.

Ooooh that one hurt !

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262oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

You Might Be A Liberal If...

... you continually misquote the words of others and end up looking like a bigger fool than people already knew you were.

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263Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

You'll forgive me if I don't trust you when was the vent repaired after drilling commenced or prior to drilling starting ?Never mind about methane always being in the water and your typing speed has nothing to do with my reading speed so I will forward you to post352 until further notice.Good Day Sir!

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264oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

5th grade class,

Teacher: Now students let's review:

Teacher: Who installed the vent cap on the Vargson water well ?

Students: The Vargsons.

Teacher: Why did the Vargsons install the vent cap?

Students: Because it had methane in it.

Teacher: Did the shale well cause the methane in the Vargson water well ?

Students: No, it was there before the shale well was drilled.

Teacher: Then how did the methane get in the Vargson's water well ?

Students: Methane is naturally occurring in water wells that area of PA.

See even a 5th grader understands that the shale well and fracing did not cause the methane in the Vargson water well.

To bad liberals are not as smart as a 5th grader.

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265Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13- - - -Lucy you have some splaining to do!

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266oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Way to go, acting like a typical liberal with the personal attack.

The problem with your use of the doctors statement is he doesn't state that the hydrocarbons came from a shale well. He makes no judgement at all

It is your assumption that the hydro carbons came from a shale well.

The other problem with your assumption is you have not provided any documentation like a water test on the water well showing hydrocarbons in the well. It's all assumptions.

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267oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

You Might Be A liberal If...

... you rely on assumptions in dealing with your health instead of good science.

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268Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

He just lost folks.He tried to avoid the the question but he has been called out and found out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ABC you have kicked but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He got busted on the vent.
teacher ; Do you believe oh13
class; NO!!!!!
tecaher why not?:
Class : Because he lies worse than a 5th grader.

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269Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Yahooo!!!!!!!

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270Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Ouch that had to hurt!!!

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271oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

The Halliburton loophole myth.
What is it ? It is the false belief that hydro fracturing was exempted from regulation under the Safe Drinking Water Act by the Energy Act of 2005.

One problem: hydro fracturing was never regulated under the SDWA.

So how can there be an exemption froma regulation that never regulated hydro fracturing.

As documentation I would suggest that you read the SDWA, but I know you are all too lazy.

So I'll give you something easier to read, a quote from former EPA Administrator under President Bill Clinton, Carol Browner. " ... the EPA does not regulate - and does not believe it is legally required to regulate the hydraulic fracturing of gas production wells under it's UIC program, under the SDWA." May5, 1995.

Even the Administrator of the EPA knew that hydraulic fracturing was not regulated under the SDWA.

So again; how can a company get an exemption from a regulation that never regulated hydraulic fracturing.

Further: The Administrator of the EPA under Pres. Obama Lisa Jackson said "...we have no data now that lead us to believe... that there needs to be specific federal regulation of the fracking process. "

The Halliburton loophole is a myth, and an easily debunked myth

Just keep serving up those softballs., there's another one outta the park

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272oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

You Might Be A Liberal If...

... you always ignore or deny facts.

But I am going to state one here anyway:

According to the ODNR... over 300 wells have been drilled in the Utica shale in Ohio, all have been fraced, not one environmental violation has been cited due to hydraulic fracturing.

According to DEP records there have been 6000 Marcellus wells drilled in PA ,not one citation of environmental violation due to hydraulic fracturing.

I know that hurts, don't you guys ever get tired of being wrong ? Ouch !

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273Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

You were caught lying, you lost. She just handed you your lunch.You tried to change the subject.How can you think that what you say is credible seriously?Your talking in circles. Understand that you just lost.

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274Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzlpTR... lOL.

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275Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Funny I was thinking the same thing. All the snyde comments he made are coming back to haunt him.

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276Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

You should feel good you schooled him and then there was the demanding documentation from him too. well oh13 where is your documentation, classy.

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277oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

For all of you have called and told me that you like my You Might Be A liberal If.. series,

I'm going to change it a bit. I will now use the word "Fractivist" instead fo liberal.

Fractivist - anti fracing activist.

You Might Be A Fractvist If...

... you rely on highly edited Youtube videos a serious documentation.

Looks like the shoe fits here.

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278oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Fractivism, like Liberalism, is a mental disorder.

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279oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

In PA, by law, an oil and gas company is "assumed" to be a complaint of pollution is made.
The company must then take measures to correct the situation.

In the case of the Vargson well we know that there was a problem with methane in their water prior to shale drilling. We know that the venting system installed by the Vargsons was faulty.

Because the Varsons filed a (false) complaint with the DEP the oil and gas company was required by law to correct the situation while state investigators conducted their review.

The oil and gas company replaced the faulty venting system. This corrected the problem. (as had always been known that it would)

For those of you who only read threads there are some of the facts edited out of the video.

As you can see, this is an example of why you can't rely on what a fractivist tells you; they always leave something out.

As Paul Harvey use to say... now you know the rest of the story.

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280Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hUL...

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281oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Fractivists are un-American.

The number one reason our economy is strong is the availability of abundant inexpensive energy.

The cost of foreign oil has plagued our economy for many years. It has also entangled our country in unnecessary foreign escapades.

With the availability of abundant inexpensive natural gas our economy is poised to rise to heights never before realized.
Availability of NG will also help keep our armed forces at home , and out of harms way.

However, there are those opposed to bringing our naturla gas to market, the fractivists.
These people are as dangerous to our country as any enemy we have ever faced.

They are so determined to undermine the stability of our country that they will resort to spreading false information, and even lies. We have seen an abundance of this activity on this site.

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282oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Where is the documentation that connects shale activity to the patients of Dr. Pare ?

Doesn't exist does it.

Where is the documentation that shale activity had anything to do with the death of the woman"s animals ?

Doesn't exist does it ?

Fractivists will use this type of false information to stop shale development.
This is un-American.

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283Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Its un American to horizontally frack in a water shed.We had Meander guarded during World War Two so no harm would come to our water supply. You know to PROTECT WHAT WE DRINK. Only a low form of life would not want to do that.

Also how about the vent issue you have been called out again for your documentation but you have none. So instead you insult people who care for their fellow human beings . Only a low life wouldn't celebrate that.

Protect the water it is American . The suburbs should be able to vote on horizontal fracking Meander after all they drink the water from Meander too. We should have a vote on whether or not we want to risk being poisoned.How disgusting.

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284oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

I am not questioning Dr. Pare or any other doctor you have cited.

No where does Dr,. Pare link her patients issue to shale development. She never makes that connection.

The point you continue to miss is that the people that made these videos make these connections.

Here's how it goes - people are sick, they go to a doctor, doctor confirms they are sick, doctor never mentions shale wells, then someone else mentions there is a shale well nearby.

If these people were truly harmed by pollution from a shale well wouldn't they have contacted the DEP or EPA ? If so there would be a report from the DEP or EPA.

I want to see those reports. The people who produced the videos convenietntly leave this information out, and I believe it is intentional because the reports don't exist or they found no connection to shale development.

The issue of the vent cap issue found in the Rolling Stone Article from March 2012, as I said before.

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285oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

I hold back info to allow people to hang themselves.
The article exists whether you choose to believe it or not.

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286oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
Not stubborn, resolute.

I know that documentation exists at the DEP, PA about the Vargson situation. Once I put it together I'll present it. You won't like it.

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287Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC "I'd also like to bring up the point..... for the people who have to now buy their water....do you think they're spending 1,000 a month on water because it's fun?

I'd like to see the link to that Rolling Stone article.

If it's from March you would of surely brought it up when I first posted the Mrs. Vargson video."

Excellent points.

oh13 excuses logic when it comes to arguing. Logic would dictate that people don't simply go out and purchase massive quantities of water because they have money to burn. No there was a catalyst for that kind of buying.

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288Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC

"...Ben Lupo would of never had the opportunity to dump." Pretty hard to argue against that.

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289oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100

I see your point, but where does that leave us ?
We can't trust the companies, we cant' trust the politicians, we can't trust the regulatory agencies,

Shale development will go on, how do we assure ourselves that it is done in a responsible manner ?

Who do you trust ? Do you trust your police department, your fire department, zonong department, who ?

Just a thought.

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290oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Bb,

When you are in your ninth grade English class to morrow please ask your teacher how to put together two sentences in an intelligible manner.

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291oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Check ou the video of Mrs Vargson speaking in Gosbine (you'll have to google her name). The sound quality isn't good but you can here her say these things.

In short she makes to interesting statements.
First that she knows that fracing was not the cause of the methane in her water.

Second: she knows that the methane in her water did not come from the Marcellus Shale, it has a different isotopic foot print than the methane in her water.

So where did the methane in her water come from? I know the answer if you are interested. It goes along with a statement I made a few posts ago, that there haven't been any "new" complaints of methane in water wells for 2 years.

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292oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

329 Utica wells drilled in Ohio, no environmental complaints.

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293oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,
I'll find the link, and try to post it.

If you think those infra red camera pictures were bad, have you ever seen a video of an infrared camera on a car exhaust ? It is one hundred times worse, or of the emissions from a building like a house ?

To make the point better the people producing the video should have had some air quality measurement equipment with them.

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294oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

I have read several times on this thread and others, that the oil and gas companies are paying off politicians and regulators.

Would someone please document these payoffs.

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295oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

I responded as I read your post. Please read all of mine. I can help your mother with the seismic thing.

Probably no documentation of payoffs, that just makes it convenient to make the accusation, it can't be proved.

On the other side of the coin could there be payoffs to politicians and regulators from anti shale development groups ?

If there were "poisons", as you claim, being emitted wouldn't the people with the infrared camera also have brought along some air testing equipment ? I think yes. The people who shot the video weren't interested in facts just impressions.

My point about car exhaust is that it is continuous, the emissions from the well were sporadic. Plus the emissions from the well are quickly dispersed in the atmosphere. That's why a simple venting system on a water well works. Car exhaust is a complex mixture and is not easily dispersed; that is why we have smog.

"These people "are well aware of the size of the pads and are compensated for them. This is one of the lies by omission that Mrs Vargson makes.

The resolution for the man with PTS is not the end of shale development.

Seismic testing is a benign process. Yes there are certain safe guards you may want in there document. But for the most part your mother won't be bothered.

Look, I can help you and your mother with the whole seismic testing thing. Tell me who the seismic company is and I can get a copy of their permit request. Once I review it I can tell you what should be added. You can respond to me here or send me an email, oh13voter@gmail.com

This is a perfect example of what I mean when I say you don't understand this process (and i don't mean that to be insulting). Seismic testing is like going through a car wash; first there is the rinse cycle (seismic testing), doesn't harm anything.

BTW, they replaced my childhood backyard with an extension of the interstate so I am sensitive to your feelings about your childhood home.

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296Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

"On the other side of the coin could there be payoffs to politicians and regulators from anti shale development groups ?"- - - Documentation?

Now how about any funding from anyone in the industry to anyone in the state government positions in Ohio can you say there is no articles of any of any kind ?

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297Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

"Noise all day. They go on his land even though they aren't supposed to. This man's post traumatic stress disorder has become so heightened that he said he knows it will kill him. The man's hands were shaking. He said just to go to the store and drive past the noise and machines he has to put his game face on. Who stands up for people like that? Someone who is now stuck living next to an industrial zone. There life basically turned upside down."

- -- A veteran who served this nation and now this? What is going on? His hands are shaking ? Veterans deserve so much words fail me. I feel horrible for this man? Maybe he just wanted to live out his days in a peaceful rural area is that too much for a veteran to ask?

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298Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

I never saw my cousin who was adopted and died in Vietnam . He was 21 , engaged and only a couple weeks short . I was told it was a closed casket funeral . My dad bounced him on his knee when he was a kid. His dad played Santa for us when we were kids he was in the Battle of The Bulge and was wounded.That was his only son.This kind of story really makes me sad.Sorry for going on.

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299oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

The Park Foundation is a huge multi billion dollar operation. It funds most of your anti shale activity.
I am sure they use their influence with politicians as much any organization.

The real solution to politicians being influenced is for their constituents to be engaged with them. Right now many of them don't think their constituents are watching.

Most of us don't even know who our state rep or state senator are.

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300Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Thanks ABC.

oh13 "The real solution to politicians being influenced is for their constituents to be engaged with them. "
- -That isn't true any more. Politicians have their hands out and they are influenced by contributions (that is a kind way of putting it) not by their constituents. When corporations with deep pockets can afford to contribute heavily to both parties then the constituents have no representation in the particular matter.

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301oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

Many companies contribute to the communities they work in. For example Seimens Corp just gave YSU 449 million dollars. Was this a bribe ?

I don't suppose that the contribution of police cars was a bribe either.

Look at the duplicity, the hypocrisy of the claims of bribes. I have seen numerous posts on this thread claiming that these companies rape communities leaving nothing. Now a company wants to return something to the community and it's seen as a bribe. You can't have it both ways.

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302oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

ABC100,

There were few if any companies in OH, PA, NY, WV etc, that were capable of performing the work on shale wells.
Those companies that were capable come from the southwest. When they moved here they brought their employees.
In PA where shale development is in it's 8th year, over eighty percent of the workforce in the shale industry are native Pennsylvanians. My source is the PA Dept of Labor.
Hopefully we will see the same trend here in OH. Remember, shale development is relatively young in OH. It isn't fair to say "look there are people from TX working here" As development expands so will the local workforce. Just look at the expansion at Bolt Construction, and Dearing Compressor. Exteran moved their operations here to Youngstown and is in the process of hiring local workers, how about V&M their workers are from here.

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30376Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

oh13voter: post #413.

Seimens has a need for educated workers so they gave YSU 449 million dollars as an in-kind grant for software and training.

PLM software — which also is used by NASA, Ford, Nissan, Calloway and Lockheed Martin — will be used to help educate students and prepare them for careers in fields from robotics design to computer-aided engineering and additive manufacturing, across many industries bridging the skills gap between the jobs available and the skills of those available to fill them..

I just don't see the similarity between this and the donation of police car donation by the oil/gas industry. oh13voter, you're grasping at straws!

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304RTS1416(117 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Guess who else uses PLM software???

The most innovative companies in the oil and gas industry use Siemens PLM Software’s unified product lifecycle management (PLM) software collaboration platform. Our solutions include intelligent document management software; 3D CAD/CAM/CAE software for oilfield assets; and systems engineering, project execution, compliance, operations and maintenance software for capital project investments.
http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com...

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305RTS1416(117 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

No, I have no connection other than I own land in the middle of the shale play, no, I have not leased nor do I intend to.

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306Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

RTS - - It sounded like you were industry to me as well when you said "Our solutions include ...." , after you mentioned the industry. Who would "our" be? Not fault finding just wondering perhaps ABC was wondering for similar reasons.

As for oh13 argument that there simply weren't enough trained people here, What ????? As far as the jobs we heard an awful lot of how great the jobs would be in our area and this was promoted as a major selling point. But I am not sure if I saw a Vindy article or heard it elsewhere about there simply being too many druggies here to hire lots of folks for industry work. LOL What excuses huh ?Anyone else read or hear that? Really? Again people are expected to be so gullible.

I would think it is simply much cheaper to bring traveling crews than to train folks wherever the new "plays" are. I would think it is CHEAPER so forget the big jobs boom. Your suspicions about traveling crews is likely correct.

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30776Ytown(1255 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Maybe they'll take the lead of Siemens and create job training opportunities for this new industry.

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308RTS1416(117 comments)posted 1 year, 5 months ago

Big B, The comment you refer to was copied off Siemens webpage but since you didn't bother to click on the attachment you didn't know that. I would expect as much from you, as always, you only see what you want to.
76, When Mr. Spiegel of Siemens was interviewed by WYSU for the spot they aired on NPR last week he specified the oil and gas industry as one of the deciding factors for bringing this program to our area due to the abundance of technically advanced jobs that will need to be filled as processing facilities for this industry are brought on line. Let's hope some of our young people are the ones that get those permanent high paying jobs! Let the guys from down south have the low paying road jobs dragging cords around for seismic testing.

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309Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

RTS "Big B, The comment you refer to was copied off Siemens webpage but since you didn't bother to click on the attachment you didn't know that. I would expect as much from you, as always, you only see what you want to." - - -Your kind of rude maybe your a oh13 morph . Regardless you had no quotation marks so what is a reader to think?

Quote and post where you found it then. When we quote someone it is a safe bet to use quotation marks. Understood?

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310Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

RTS I went to the link and clicked on it show me where you took the "our" from .

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311oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

RTS1416,

It is standard operating procedure for Bb, to only read what Bb wants. Then Bb only cuts and pastes the information that fits Bb's pre-conceived conclusion.

Did you notice that instead of addressing your comment Bb went straight to the personal attack.

I find the exchange interesting since we don't always agree with each other.

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312oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

According to a study performed by the PA DEP;
based on current data, regulations and industry practices, there is no indication that the public or workers in the oil and gas industry face health risk from exposure to radiation from drilling wastes.

More misinformation bites the dust.

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313RTS1416(117 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

Product Lifecycle Management for the Oil, Gas and Refinery Industry

"The most innovative companies in the oil and gas industry use Siemens PLM Software’s unified product lifecycle management (PLM) software collaboration platform. Our solutions include intelligent document management software; 3D CAD/CAM/CAE software for oilfield assets; and systems engineering, project execution, compliance, operations and maintenance software for capital project investments."
http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com...
B Ben, If you look at the first word of the second sentence you will find it is the word"our". Understood?

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314Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

oh13

"It is standard operating procedure for Bb, to only read what Bb wants. Then Bb only cuts and pastes the information that fits Bb's pre-conceived conclusion.

Did you notice that instead of addressing your comment Bb went straight to the personal attack.

I find the exchange interesting since we don't always agree with each other. " - - More lies.You call quoting someone else's words and not using quotation marks a"oersonal attack" -I think there is something wrong with you.

Hey everyone if you use someone else's words and don't use quotation marks and someone is gracious enough to point it out according to oh 13 it is an attack. I guess there are students everywhere who are under attack by there teachers for telling them to appropriately use quotation marks. If I were to attack I would have said you just lifted someone else's material and didn't quote them -got the difference?

As far as posting source materials I post the links and if they aren't posted in their entirety a person can access the link and read it in its entirety. If you don't read everything then don't blame me its there for you stop being so lazy and complaining.Do have have to read it for you?

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315Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

RTS1416

"B Ben, If you look at the first word of the second sentence you will find it is the word"our". Understood?"

So now we have to play "Where is Waldo" when reading a post?
Quotation marks are a wonderful way to distinguish between what you say and someone else says. Perhaps you'll start to use them in the future and then the reader can know the difference. However, this is what they look like " ".That way folks don't have to guess they can know. Its very popular everywhere these days. It also helps prevent plagiarism;)

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316oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

Hey Big b b,

That is the problem I have with you.
Unless anyone leaves you a bread crumb trail you couldn't find your own butt.

Now you attack RTS.

After a deep breath I realize this is your standard MO. Don't deal with the subject of a discussion, attack the person.

You are a sad person, how long has your mother had you locked in the basement ?

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317Bigben(1996 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

Hey oh13 glad to see your still Cesar in your nut house. lol How long have you been Caesar?I know only when you don't feel like a wooden boy on strings LOL. I was only trying to help out RTS morph oh13 -so sensitive.

If you were a good buddy you would have helped him out with his punctuation but since you are one in the same that isn't possible. So you have to create your own pal? That is what happens when you tell lies about others.
Don't get mad at me I didn't make you lazy.

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318RTS1416(117 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

Your a joke. I post pertinent information with an attached credible link showing where the information came from and you try to make fun of me due to punctuation? Try going back through your posts and reading them, your spelling and punctuation suck. Also, please don't include your cutesy little winks in your replies to me, it creeps me out. Did I mention that you are a joke?

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319oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

Well if it isn't Bb the cowardly fractivist.

I wondered where you went.

You were destroyed on the other thread so you came to hide over here.

Did I hurt poor Bb's feelings?

Waaaah Waaaah

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320oh13voter(1205 comments)posted 1 year, 4 months ago

Bb,

People in glass houses should not throw rocks.
Your (not you're) understanding of contractions is atrocious, along with confusing similar words

Here are some of your most inept:

Your instead of you're
There instead of they're
There instead of their
here instead of hear

I could go on but you get the idea.

This however a typical fractivist diversionary tactic. When you can't talk about the substance of an issue always personally attack the other person.

RTS, just ignore him, remember this is the guy who thinks a newspaper is a scientific document.

Ah ha ha ha ha hee hee ho ho ha hee ho ha hee tee hee ha ha ha ha ha etc.

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