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Biden, Ryan deliver fiery debate on Libya, jobs, abortion



Published: Fri, October 12, 2012 @ 12:01 a.m.

photo

Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan shake hands before the start of their only scheduled debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky., on Thursday.

RELATED: • Tickets for Ryan’s town hall at YSU available today

• Dems lead in battleground voter registration

Associated Press

DANVILLE, Ky.

At odds early and often, Joe Biden and Republican Paul Ryan squabbled over the economy, taxes, Medicare and more Thursday night in a contentious, interruption-filled debate. “That is a bunch of malarkey,” the vice president retorted after a particularly tough Ryan attack on the administration’s foreign policy.

“I know you’re under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but I think people would be better served if we don’t interrupt each other,” Ryan later scolded his rival, referring to Democratic pressure on Biden to make up for President Barack Obama’s listless performance in last week’s debate with Mitt Romney.

There was nothing listless this time as the 69-year-old Biden sat next to the 42-year-old Wisconsin congressman on a stage at Centre College in Kentucky.

Nearly 90 minutes after the initial disagreement over foreign policy, the two men were still at it, clashing sharply over rival approaches to reducing federal deficits.

“The president likes to say he has a plan,” said Ryan, a seven-term congressman. But in fact “he gave a speech” and never backed it up with details.

Biden conceded Republicans indeed had a plan. But he said that if enacted it would have “eviscerated all the things the middle class care about,” including cutting health care programs and education.

As Biden and Ryan well knew, last week’s presidential debate has fueled a Republican comeback in opinion polls.

Republicans and Democrats alike have said in recent days the presidential race now approximates the competitive situation in place before the two political conventions. Obama and Ryan are generally separated by a point or two in national public opinion polls and in several battleground states, while the president holds a slender lead in Ohio and Wisconsin.

With Democrats eager for Biden to show the spark the president lacked, he did so. He supplemented his criticism by periodically smiling mockingly, wagging his finger and raising his arms in mock disbelief as his rival spoke.

Ryan, sitting on the national debate stage for the first time, settled on a smirk for parts of the debate. He sipped water and cleared his throat through many of Biden’s answers.

Unprompted, Biden he brought up the video in which Romney had said 47 percent of Americans pay no federal income tax, view themselves as victims and do not take responsibility for their own lives.

“It’s about time they take responsibility” instead of signing pledges to avoid raising taxes, Biden said — of Romney, Ryan and the Republicans.

Ryan was ready with a response. “This is a man who gave 30 percent of his income to charity, more than the two of us combined,” he said of the man at the top of the Republican ticket. “Mitt Romney’s a good man. He cares about 100 percent of Americans in this country. And with respect to that quote, I think the vice president very well knows that sometimes the words don’t come out of your mouth the right way.”

The serial disagreements started immediately after the smiles and handshakes of the opening.

Ryan said in the debate’s opening moments that U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens had been denied sufficient security by administration officials. Stevens died in a terrorist attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi on Sept. 11.

“Not a single thing he said is accurate,” Biden shot back.

Both the president and Romney campaigned in battleground states during the day before ceding the spotlight to their political partners for the evening.

“I thought Joe Biden was terrific tonight. I could not be prouder of him,” Obama told reporters after watching the debate aboard Air Force One.

Likewise, Romney called Ryan and congratulated him on his performance, a campaign spokesman said.

Obama and Romney hold their next debate on Tuesday in Hempstead, N.Y, then meet again on Oct. 22 in Boca Raton, Fla.

In Kentucky, Biden and Ryan seemed ready for a showdown from their opening moments on stage, and neither seemed willing to let the other have the final word. They interrupted each other repeatedly — and moderator Martha Raddatz of ABC as well.

With Democrats eager for Biden to show the spark the president lacked, he did so.

Ryan focused on dreary economic statistics — 23 million are struggling to work, he said, and 15 percent of the country is living in poverty. “This is not what a real recovery looks like.”

Medicare was a flashpoint, as well. Ryan said Obama’s health care plan had diverted $716 billion from the program for seniors and created a new board that could deny care to patients who need it.

Democrats “haven’t put a credible solution on the table,” he said. “They’ll tell you about vouchers. They’ll say all these things to try to scare people.”

Biden quickly said that Ryan had authored not one but two proposals in which seniors would be given government payments that might not cover the entirety of their care. Otherwise, he said, the Romney-Ryan approach wouldn’t achieve the savings they claimed.

Unlike Obama, Biden had no qualms about launching a personal attack on Romney.

After Ryan argued that Romney’s plan would pay for reduced tax rates by eliminating tax loopholes for the wealthy, Biden noted that on a recent interview on CBS’ “60 Minutes,” Romney defended the 14 percent tax rate he pays on his $20 million income as fair, even though it’s a lower rate than some lower income taxpayers pay.

“You think these guys are going to go out there and cut those loopholes?” Biden asked, addressing the national TV audience, his tone of voice indicating he did not.

But Ryan said he and Romney believe “taking 28 percent of families’ and businesses’ income is enough.”

“What we’re saying is lower tax rates across the board and close loopholes primarily on the higher income people,” Ryan said. He said that instead of specifying what loopholes and other tax breaks would be eliminated, Romney preferred to lay out broad principles in hopes of reaching a bipartisan agreement.

Across 90 minutes, the two men agreed precisely once.

That was when Ryan, referring to the war in Afghanistan, said the calendar was the same each year. Biden agreed to that, but not to his rival’s underlying point, which was that it was a mistake for Obama to have announced a date for the withdrawal of the remainder of the U.S. combat troops.

The fiercest clash over foreign policy came in the debate’s opening moments, when Ryan cited events across the Middle East as well as Stevens’ death in Libya as evidence that the administration’s foreign policy was unraveling. The Republican also said the administration had failed to give Stevens the same level of protection as the U.S. ambassador in Paris receives.

Biden rebutted by saying that the budget that Ryan authored as chairman of the House Budget Committee had cut the administration’s funding request for diplomatic security by $300 million.

On the nation’s economy, both men were asked directly when his side could reduce unemployment to 6 percent from the current 7.8 percent. Both men sidestepped.

Biden repeated the president’s contention that the nation is moving in the right direction, while Ryan stated the Republican view that economic struggle persists even though Democrats had control of both houses of Congress during the first two years of Obama’s term.

“Where are the 5 million green jobs” we were told would be created? Ryan said to Biden.

Obama campaigned in Florida during the day. Mocking recent changes in Romney’s rhetoric, he told a rally in Miami rally, “After running for more than a year in which he called himself severely conservative, Mitt Romney is trying to convince you that he was severely kidding.”

Romney visited with 93-year-old Billy Graham in North Carolina before speaking to an evening rally in Asheville, N.C. “Prayer is the most helpful thing you can do for me,” he told the evangelist.

For Biden, Thursday night’s debate was his first since the 2008 campaign, when he shared a stage with Sarah Palin, then John McCain’s running mate.

Ryan spars frequently with Democrats during debates on legislation on the House floor and in the House Budget Committee, which he chairs, but not in a one-on-one encounter covering 90 minutes and a virtually unlimited range of topics.

For all their differences, the two men shared a common objective, to advance the cause of their tickets in a close race for the presidency. And they appeared to avoid any gaffes that might forever seal their place in the history of debates.


Comments

1IslandMike(748 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

-Let's implement the Bush tax cuts.
-Create the Department of Homeland Security.
-Go into TWO wars.
-Then as the deficit is SOARING, we'll blame it on Obama.

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2newsmaker1(127 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Facts: the so-called Bush tax cuts were responsible for record amount of money coming the the Treasury. Bush cut the TAX RATE-there is a big difference.

(ex: a company cuts the price, but makes more profit)

We were attacked-Americans were jumping to their death from 60 floors high while radical Muslims celebrated.

The Democrats Affordable Housing law crashed the economy- and the National Democrats policy is what caused the deficit, Obama put the deficit's -full speed ahead with his waste and spend. Obama's 1st two years, he had the Senate and the House and that's really when spending went wild.

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3timOthy(802 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Hunter he took a page from the Baggers play book !Your boy looked like a confused Tea Boy! And remember what he thinks of women and (THEIR) rights to do what they want with (THEIR) body's !The fact check most of Ryan's replies were lies ! But he's a Republican or Bagger ! Which is it Hunter ???????

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4SunnySkies(20 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Thanks Newsmaker1 for setting the record straight. My, how soon we forget what happened on 911. As Ryan said, we are being watched for any signs of weakness. Joe Biden was rude, condescending, un-gentlemanly, pompous and arrogant. Ryan took the higher road and held himself above the sneers and nasty grins of Biden.

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5ytown53(5 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Biden said two wars were put on a credit card.......Biden voted to support BOTH wars!

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6DwightK(1236 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Ryan couldn't promise that middle class tax deductions like those for mortgages, health insurance benefits and college educations would not be cut to pay for Romney's 5 trillion dollar tax cut. That is a huge red flag to me about what they are planning but not telling us.

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7redheadgrandma(13 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

I have watched politics and candidates for a long , long time and have never seen such a rude , rude person as Joe Biden last night. I wonder if he will be embarassed if he watches a rerun. Probably not. Does he talk to a head of state this way? I bet in a case such as that he doesn't open his mouth. I could not focus on what Biden was saying because of his rudeness.

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8Knightcap(682 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Biteme has no concern about our national debt being out of control. Everything is just fun and laughs. This generation is really going to suffer with another four years of Obama. There's not going to be any tuition decrease for your education. There's not going to be a lot of opportunity when you graduate. Good jobs will be hard to find. You'll continue to live in your mom and dad's house for a long time to come. Young people make to right choice for yourselves and vote this loser out. Don't let The View, Move On, Letterman and Hollywood be your compass.

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9fattynskinny(195 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

biden was just as pathetic as obama. these are the clowns running our county. god help us all.

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10gdog4766(1407 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Hey newsmaker, what part did Iraq or Afghanistan play in 9/11? Typical reliarcans, just say it facts dont matter, truth is subjective. Lie, lie when caught deny.

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11James_S(268 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Obama-Biden is one thing, but it's so obvious that Romney-Ryan want to get us into ANOTHER war with Iran for the sake of Israel. That's what all these wars are for... for the sake of Israel. And don't forget the famous last words of Jim Traficant..."Israel owns our Congress". Truer words were never spoken. Obama had us "liberate" Libya with the CIA-Mossad sponsored alQuaida. That's right... alQuaida was formed by the CIA-Mossad to aid Afghanistan in fighting Russia. And Osama binLaden was appointed head of alQuaida by the CIA-MOSSAD.
"Don't be fooled..."

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12redvert(2048 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Yes, "one heartbeat away from the presidency" says it all but unfortunately you "can't fix stupid".

I always remember "Joe the Baffoon" Biden for his Katie Curic interview. You don't need to make this stuff up when you have this idiot, enjoy!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jf17Y...

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13walter_sobchak(1855 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

If the Obama administration has a plan, why haven't they implemented it? ANyone with any sense of economics knows that you can't totally cut spending and nor raise taxes and solve this debt problem. We have too many fixed costs in promises in entitlements. The country needs a second job! That means that the pool with the largest resource must be expanded and that is the middle class. I'm all for letting the Bush tax rollbacks expire but we must grow the middle and the first black muslim in the White House has no plan. He just wants to keep giving handouts to the non-productive. Not to mention, he expended his political capital on Obamacare and queers in the military. Anyway, Biden may have passion but he was rude and boorish.

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14IslandMike(748 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

GM is ALIVE
Bin Laden is DEAD
The US is OUT of Iraq
Housing market is UP
Unemployment is DOWN
Wall Street is UP

THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!

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15Max(81 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

IslandMike, I am really starting to wonder about your mentality and IQ with your ridiculous, repetitive comments.

And TimOthy -- If a a baby is part of a "womans" body, then I guess your mother can choose if you live or die, too. Sorry, bud, but once that child becomes a life, it's not the woman's body, it's a new life. She can do whatever she wants with her OWN body; it's the child within it that she can't kill.

Joe Biden was absolutely an embarrassment to his party last night with his antics. Besides the fact he's a loud-mouth buffoon, his behavior was beyond disrespectful. Except for his die-hard supporters, I can't imagine anyone appreciating his arrogance and smugness.

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16Dagwood(110 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

If Obama wins I am taking all my money out of the bank, selling all my assets, and cashing all my paychecks and heading straight to the Horseshoe in Cleveland.

Then I am going on Government Assistance. Thanks for voting Obama I can retire at 30 :)

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17madison2011(92 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

BIDEN GIGGLES THEN LIES ABOUT JOB RATE

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/591333

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18DOLE2(594 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Great material fo Saturday Night Live!

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19fudputer(45 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

born in 1942-grew up in Y-town-seen what happened to my hometown -the idiots that voted for the Bush era"s and those like them
look around -this is what you voted for-blame it on OBama- we all know the BushE's left us with a beautiful clean future...this is the reason that once again Famlies with 22 people will be living together in a 2 bedroom home (not to mention ) all the extra kids because they could't have access to abortion..enjoy life folks --i never thought i would see the day that hard working y-towners would believe all the Rep $ull-sh@t

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20twin(18 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

IslandMike you should go back to the island you came from!! Your clueless.

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21DOLE2(594 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Since 1942 this area was run by Dems....look around

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22Silence_Dogood(1320 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

fudgeputer look around, this town was destroyed by 70 years of Democrat control. Your entire life this town was under the control of Democrat Politicians, so if you want to blame anyone , blame them.

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23fudputer(45 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

mr.do-good --excuse me-- in all my life i can never remember people that I or my mom and dad knew- or that my Grandparents knew that had their houses forclosed on..lets put this @hit where it belongs dont blame the politicians on either side -blame the people that purchased $ 400.000 homes when their incomes were $50.000 annually or that $45.000 car or truck with pymts of $500 a month for 7 yrs.-or borrowing money for that $30.000 pool.who signed the contracts that put all these people in trouble __Obama

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24hurrdurr(98 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Ryan did worse than Palin. Much worse.

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25DOLE2(594 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Ryan did better then Obama

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26IslandMike(748 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Elect Mitt-Flopper and Paul, they'll bury a few thousand more US soldiers (they're part of the 47% anyhow) and spend another TRILLION a year in Iran. If you like hate misery and WAR, then they're your guys.

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27Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

GOP/tea loss
America won
Last word
All the rest is BS

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28RobertH(50 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

.
.
.
Long as you're without a clue and haven't been paying any attention Ryan did OK.

To those with even half a clue Ryan was a lying weasel.

Then we get to the last part of the debate where Ryan states he'll impose his personal beliefs on the rest of us and reigniting the Republicans War on Women.

Sealed the deal for me.

How could I vote for Ryan when he has no clue about the First Amendment. ?

Ryan was in over his head about the whole debate, then fatally face planted at the end.

What a Loser.
.

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29WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Under King O-Blame-Ya

-Al Qaeda is ALIVE
-US Ambassador is DEAD
-47 million on FOOD STAMPS
-16.2 trillion dollars in DEBT
-Gasoline prices up 250%
-Grocery prices up 15%
-Income down 8.2%
-MILLIONS left the labor force
-43 months of 8%+ unemployment
-Are YOU better off now than four years ago?

ROMNEY to the RESCUE!

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30madison2011(92 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

with 47% of people on food stamps grocers are taking advantage of customers

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31dawn421(265 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

hey william if this is the only crap you post on here for every comment what will you post after the election? you are a complete douche

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32WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

@dawn421

Another tolerant leftist loon, eh? Do you care to debate any of the facts contained within or would you rather just regurgitate your vitriol? We know the answer. Thanks to you as well for illustrating to everyone just how vile the left has become. And if you have a problem with my messages go take a look at and tell it to another vile leftist here- IslandMike. I am merely rebutting. I'm the antidote not the poison. You are insignificant.

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33WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

@dawn421

I totally forgot. Special delivery... this is for you!

Under King O-Blame-Ya

-Al Qaeda is ALIVE
-US Ambassador is DEAD
-47 million on FOOD STAMPS
-16.2 trillion dollars in DEBT
-Gasoline prices up 250%
-Grocery prices up 15%
-Income down 8.2%
-MILLIONS left the labor force
-43 months of 8%+ unemployment
-Are YOU better off now than four years ago?

ROMNEY to the RESCUE!

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34timOthy(802 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

MAX life does NOT BEGIN IN A WOMANS BODY . LIFE STARTS WHEN YOU ASS IS SLAPPED BY A DOCTOR !!

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35dawn421(265 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

point was idiot, no matter the article you post the same insignificant bs, what does this have to do with the article on the bus driver that punched someone???????????? that is my point you arrogant ass. you put the same comment on every thing you post

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36IslandMike(748 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

Thr Neo-Cons should push for a universal dental plan after Obama knocked Mitt's teeth out Tuesday night.

Binders full of women...I knew the idiot would put his foot in his mouth sooner or later. It wasn't good enough to tick off 47% of the electorate, he now ticked off 52% of them!!!

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37WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

@dawn

One of the points I have been illustrating to everyone is the boundless vitriol and hatred spewing forth from members and supporters of the modern left. Thanks for helping me out.

By the way, the "everything" is not two separate words.

-Al Qaeda is ALIVE
-US Ambassador is DEAD
-47 million on FOOD STAMPS
-16.2 trillion dollars in DEBT
-Gasoline prices up 250%
-Grocery prices up 15%
-Income down 8.2%
-MILLIONS left the labor force
-43 months of 8%+ unemployment
-Are YOU better off now than four years ago?

ROMNEY to the RESCUE!

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38WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

The complete list of Green Energy Failures. These are all faltering or bankrupt green-energy companies sponsored by President O-Blame-Everyone-Elsa-a:

1 Evergreen Solar ($24 million)*
2 SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3 Solyndra ($535 million)*
4 Beacon Power ($69 million)*
5 AES’s subsidiary Eastern Energy ($17.1 million)
6 Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
7 SunPower ($1.5 billion)
8 First Solar ($1.46 billion)
9 Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
10 EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
11 Amonix ($5.9 million)
12 National Renewable Energy Lab ($200 million)
13 Fisker Automotive ($528 million)
14 Abound Solar ($374 million)*
15 A123 Systems ($279 million)*
16 Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($6 million)
17 Johnson Controls ($299 million)
18 Schneider Electric ($86 million)
19 Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
20 ECOtality ($126.2 million)
21 Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
22 Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
23 Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
24 Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
25 Range Fuels ($80 million)*
26 Thompson River Power ($6.4 million)*
27 Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
28 LSP Energy ($2.1 billion)*
29 UniSolar ($100 million)*
30 Aure Dynamics ($120 million)*
31 GreenVolts ($500,000)
32 Vestas ($50 million)
33 LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($150 million)
34 Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
35 Navistar ($10 million)
36 Satcon ($3 million)*

*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.

Reproduced from http://blog.heritage.org/2012/10/18/p...

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39cambridge(2972 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

william, swing on this....This is the fourth time that I've seen you post this same BS list. The very first company on your list, Evergreen Solar received NO federal funding and I've provided a link as proof just like I did the last three times you posted your BS.

It took about a minute to find that link but I'm not going to bother looking up the rest for you. Don't you know by now that when you lie on this board people are going to call you out? I know that doesn't matter to teabagger/republicans, they will just tell the same lie again tomorrow. Just shows how desperate these clowns are.

http://bostonherald.com/business/tech...

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40WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

@dawn421

I respond to vitriol with vitriol. If you want to use pejoratives and expletives then expect a similar response. If you want to have a polite, respectful debate I am game. We can agree to drop all the inflammatory language and debate the facts instead. For the record you began this by using your favorite word in response to a post I made some time ago. You made no point other than to call names and object to my point.

"hey william if this is the only crap you post on here for every comment what will you post after the election? you are a complete douche"

Remember that? What was your point here? Where is the debate? Now stop acting like I am the one that makes no point and calls people names. You have been doing that from the start.

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41WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

@cambridge

Tell me if this looks familiar:

Reproduced from http://blog.heritage.org/2012/10/18/p...

That is at the bottom of the list. Do you know what that means? It means that I didn't write it. If there are errors then I am glad to make adjustments but the list is not mine. Heritage made it and I am quoting it. Go attack Heritage if there are errors, though I doubt there are. I'll look into your point though and if the list is faulty I'll correct it. Hope that clears up the confusion.

By the way, I have said multiple times that the posting of the lists and data is in RESPONSE to other members doing the same only with leftist tilt. Nobody was out criticizing them, not even you. Which leads me to what appears to be the point- that lefties like yourself object to the information itself but attack the poster instead.

Like I have said to others, if you want to have a respectful debate I am game but you are going to have to drop the attack language. Can you? Is it possible not to HATE a person with differing political views? Hating a person and being intolerant of their political views is called bigotry by the way. That is also a point I have been making here. There are many members that are lefties that engage in outright bigotry almost daily. It is wrong and I am calling all of you out onto the carpet for it.

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42WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

@cambridge

I don't think you should get your information from a lefty newspaper instead of a government agency. Here is the information from the following Government source:

http://www.usaspending.gov/search?for...

Federal Award ID: 09448851ST0001

EVERGREEN SOLAR, INC
138 BARTLETT ST, Marlborough, Massachusetts

EXPORT INSURANCE

Obligation Date:
06-25-2009

Obligation Amount:
$25,000,000

The Government guaranteed this obligation. This company is now going bankrupt and the taxpayers will have to pay for whatever transactions are unfulfilled. Obama did this through the DOE. Go look for yourself. There are hundreds of BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars out there in programs like this.

Go to the Heritage site and look at the list. You can click through each of the claims into a Government website and prove the veracity of the information for yourself.

Here it is:

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/10/18/p...

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43WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

@cambridge

I just noticed that some of the links do not land in a Government website. Some link to articles in major outlets such as Bloomberg, etc.

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44taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 1 year, 9 months ago

hmm....William I guess they have no response when you are able to show proof of all you are saying.

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