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Biden, Ryan deliver fiery debate on Libya, jobs, abortion

Published: Fri, October 12, 2012 @ 12:01 a.m.


Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan shake hands before the start of their only scheduled debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky., on Thursday.

RELATED: • Tickets for Ryan’s town hall at YSU available today

• Dems lead in battleground voter registration

Associated Press


At odds early and often, Joe Biden and Republican Paul Ryan squabbled over the economy, taxes, Medicare and more Thursday night in a contentious, interruption-filled debate. “That is a bunch of malarkey,” the vice president retorted after a particularly tough Ryan attack on the administration’s foreign policy.

“I know you’re under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but I think people would be better served if we don’t interrupt each other,” Ryan later scolded his rival, referring to Democratic pressure on Biden to make up for President Barack Obama’s listless performance in last week’s debate with Mitt Romney.

There was nothing listless this time as the 69-year-old Biden sat next to the 42-year-old Wisconsin congressman on a stage at Centre College in Kentucky.

Nearly 90 minutes after the initial disagreement over foreign policy, the two men were still at it, clashing sharply over rival approaches to reducing federal deficits.

“The president likes to say he has a plan,” said Ryan, a seven-term congressman. But in fact “he gave a speech” and never backed it up with details.

Biden conceded Republicans indeed had a plan. But he said that if enacted it would have “eviscerated all the things the middle class care about,” including cutting health care programs and education.

As Biden and Ryan well knew, last week’s presidential debate has fueled a Republican comeback in opinion polls.

Republicans and Democrats alike have said in recent days the presidential race now approximates the competitive situation in place before the two political conventions. Obama and Ryan are generally separated by a point or two in national public opinion polls and in several battleground states, while the president holds a slender lead in Ohio and Wisconsin.

With Democrats eager for Biden to show the spark the president lacked, he did so. He supplemented his criticism by periodically smiling mockingly, wagging his finger and raising his arms in mock disbelief as his rival spoke.

Ryan, sitting on the national debate stage for the first time, settled on a smirk for parts of the debate. He sipped water and cleared his throat through many of Biden’s answers.

Unprompted, Biden he brought up the video in which Romney had said 47 percent of Americans pay no federal income tax, view themselves as victims and do not take responsibility for their own lives.

“It’s about time they take responsibility” instead of signing pledges to avoid raising taxes, Biden said — of Romney, Ryan and the Republicans.

Ryan was ready with a response. “This is a man who gave 30 percent of his income to charity, more than the two of us combined,” he said of the man at the top of the Republican ticket. “Mitt Romney’s a good man. He cares about 100 percent of Americans in this country. And with respect to that quote, I think the vice president very well knows that sometimes the words don’t come out of your mouth the right way.”

The serial disagreements started immediately after the smiles and handshakes of the opening.

Ryan said in the debate’s opening moments that U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens had been denied sufficient security by administration officials. Stevens died in a terrorist attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi on Sept. 11.

“Not a single thing he said is accurate,” Biden shot back.

Both the president and Romney campaigned in battleground states during the day before ceding the spotlight to their political partners for the evening.

“I thought Joe Biden was terrific tonight. I could not be prouder of him,” Obama told reporters after watching the debate aboard Air Force One.

Likewise, Romney called Ryan and congratulated him on his performance, a campaign spokesman said.

Obama and Romney hold their next debate on Tuesday in Hempstead, N.Y, then meet again on Oct. 22 in Boca Raton, Fla.

In Kentucky, Biden and Ryan seemed ready for a showdown from their opening moments on stage, and neither seemed willing to let the other have the final word. They interrupted each other repeatedly — and moderator Martha Raddatz of ABC as well.

With Democrats eager for Biden to show the spark the president lacked, he did so.

Ryan focused on dreary economic statistics — 23 million are struggling to work, he said, and 15 percent of the country is living in poverty. “This is not what a real recovery looks like.”

Medicare was a flashpoint, as well. Ryan said Obama’s health care plan had diverted $716 billion from the program for seniors and created a new board that could deny care to patients who need it.

Democrats “haven’t put a credible solution on the table,” he said. “They’ll tell you about vouchers. They’ll say all these things to try to scare people.”

Biden quickly said that Ryan had authored not one but two proposals in which seniors would be given government payments that might not cover the entirety of their care. Otherwise, he said, the Romney-Ryan approach wouldn’t achieve the savings they claimed.

Unlike Obama, Biden had no qualms about launching a personal attack on Romney.

After Ryan argued that Romney’s plan would pay for reduced tax rates by eliminating tax loopholes for the wealthy, Biden noted that on a recent interview on CBS’ “60 Minutes,” Romney defended the 14 percent tax rate he pays on his $20 million income as fair, even though it’s a lower rate than some lower income taxpayers pay.

“You think these guys are going to go out there and cut those loopholes?” Biden asked, addressing the national TV audience, his tone of voice indicating he did not.

But Ryan said he and Romney believe “taking 28 percent of families’ and businesses’ income is enough.”

“What we’re saying is lower tax rates across the board and close loopholes primarily on the higher income people,” Ryan said. He said that instead of specifying what loopholes and other tax breaks would be eliminated, Romney preferred to lay out broad principles in hopes of reaching a bipartisan agreement.

Across 90 minutes, the two men agreed precisely once.

That was when Ryan, referring to the war in Afghanistan, said the calendar was the same each year. Biden agreed to that, but not to his rival’s underlying point, which was that it was a mistake for Obama to have announced a date for the withdrawal of the remainder of the U.S. combat troops.

The fiercest clash over foreign policy came in the debate’s opening moments, when Ryan cited events across the Middle East as well as Stevens’ death in Libya as evidence that the administration’s foreign policy was unraveling. The Republican also said the administration had failed to give Stevens the same level of protection as the U.S. ambassador in Paris receives.

Biden rebutted by saying that the budget that Ryan authored as chairman of the House Budget Committee had cut the administration’s funding request for diplomatic security by $300 million.

On the nation’s economy, both men were asked directly when his side could reduce unemployment to 6 percent from the current 7.8 percent. Both men sidestepped.

Biden repeated the president’s contention that the nation is moving in the right direction, while Ryan stated the Republican view that economic struggle persists even though Democrats had control of both houses of Congress during the first two years of Obama’s term.

“Where are the 5 million green jobs” we were told would be created? Ryan said to Biden.

Obama campaigned in Florida during the day. Mocking recent changes in Romney’s rhetoric, he told a rally in Miami rally, “After running for more than a year in which he called himself severely conservative, Mitt Romney is trying to convince you that he was severely kidding.”

Romney visited with 93-year-old Billy Graham in North Carolina before speaking to an evening rally in Asheville, N.C. “Prayer is the most helpful thing you can do for me,” he told the evangelist.

For Biden, Thursday night’s debate was his first since the 2008 campaign, when he shared a stage with Sarah Palin, then John McCain’s running mate.

Ryan spars frequently with Democrats during debates on legislation on the House floor and in the House Budget Committee, which he chairs, but not in a one-on-one encounter covering 90 minutes and a virtually unlimited range of topics.

For all their differences, the two men shared a common objective, to advance the cause of their tickets in a close race for the presidency. And they appeared to avoid any gaffes that might forever seal their place in the history of debates.


1IslandMike(764 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

-Let's implement the Bush tax cuts.
-Create the Department of Homeland Security.
-Go into TWO wars.
-Then as the deficit is SOARING, we'll blame it on Obama.

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2timOthy(802 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Hunter he took a page from the Baggers play book !Your boy looked like a confused Tea Boy! And remember what he thinks of women and (THEIR) rights to do what they want with (THEIR) body's !The fact check most of Ryan's replies were lies ! But he's a Republican or Bagger ! Which is it Hunter ???????

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3SunnySkies(20 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Thanks Newsmaker1 for setting the record straight. My, how soon we forget what happened on 911. As Ryan said, we are being watched for any signs of weakness. Joe Biden was rude, condescending, un-gentlemanly, pompous and arrogant. Ryan took the higher road and held himself above the sneers and nasty grins of Biden.

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4ytown53(5 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Biden said two wars were put on a credit card.......Biden voted to support BOTH wars!

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5DwightK(1537 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Ryan couldn't promise that middle class tax deductions like those for mortgages, health insurance benefits and college educations would not be cut to pay for Romney's 5 trillion dollar tax cut. That is a huge red flag to me about what they are planning but not telling us.

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6redheadgrandma(13 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

I have watched politics and candidates for a long , long time and have never seen such a rude , rude person as Joe Biden last night. I wonder if he will be embarassed if he watches a rerun. Probably not. Does he talk to a head of state this way? I bet in a case such as that he doesn't open his mouth. I could not focus on what Biden was saying because of his rudeness.

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7jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

I have watched these debates since the original debates (Nixon-Kennedy) & I have never witnessed such classless behavoir as Bidens. Talk about being classless & boorish, Biden earned an OSCAR. Can you imagine Biden ever becoming President?

My local newspaper ( a very liberal paper) said Biden interupted Ryan 61 times & the moderator ( a liberal) never interceded, but she cut off Ryan 12 times.

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8republicanRick(1742 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Biden was juvenile, unprofessional, and condescending.

It is hard to believe the Vindicator will be endorsing the Obama/Biden ticket.

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9James_S(268 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Obama-Biden is one thing, but it's so obvious that Romney-Ryan want to get us into ANOTHER war with Iran for the sake of Israel. That's what all these wars are for... for the sake of Israel. And don't forget the famous last words of Jim Traficant..."Israel owns our Congress". Truer words were never spoken. Obama had us "liberate" Libya with the CIA-Mossad sponsored alQuaida. That's right... alQuaida was formed by the CIA-Mossad to aid Afghanistan in fighting Russia. And Osama binLaden was appointed head of alQuaida by the CIA-MOSSAD.
"Don't be fooled..."

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10redvert(2240 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Yes, "one heartbeat away from the presidency" says it all but unfortunately you "can't fix stupid".

I always remember "Joe the Baffoon" Biden for his Katie Curic interview. You don't need to make this stuff up when you have this idiot, enjoy!!!


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11walter_sobchak(2728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

If the Obama administration has a plan, why haven't they implemented it? ANyone with any sense of economics knows that you can't totally cut spending and nor raise taxes and solve this debt problem. We have too many fixed costs in promises in entitlements. The country needs a second job! That means that the pool with the largest resource must be expanded and that is the middle class. I'm all for letting the Bush tax rollbacks expire but we must grow the middle and the first black muslim in the White House has no plan. He just wants to keep giving handouts to the non-productive. Not to mention, he expended his political capital on Obamacare and queers in the military. Anyway, Biden may have passion but he was rude and boorish.

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12IslandMike(764 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Bin Laden is DEAD
The US is OUT of Iraq
Housing market is UP
Unemployment is DOWN
Wall Street is UP


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13Max(98 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

IslandMike, I am really starting to wonder about your mentality and IQ with your ridiculous, repetitive comments.

And TimOthy -- If a a baby is part of a "womans" body, then I guess your mother can choose if you live or die, too. Sorry, bud, but once that child becomes a life, it's not the woman's body, it's a new life. She can do whatever she wants with her OWN body; it's the child within it that she can't kill.

Joe Biden was absolutely an embarrassment to his party last night with his antics. Besides the fact he's a loud-mouth buffoon, his behavior was beyond disrespectful. Except for his die-hard supporters, I can't imagine anyone appreciating his arrogance and smugness.

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14Dagwood(507 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

If Obama wins I am taking all my money out of the bank, selling all my assets, and cashing all my paychecks and heading straight to the Horseshoe in Cleveland.

Then I am going on Government Assistance. Thanks for voting Obama I can retire at 30 :)

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15jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

James claims Romney-Ryan wants to get us in ANOTHER war. Evidently he doesn't realize who the incumbent was in the following wars:

Korean Conflict...Truman-Democrat

He fails to realize that for the 1st time, in our history, the US was attacked, in 3 different areas, with the loss of life approaching 3000.

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16jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Dr McGowan is a retired physician in Poland, Ohio

We All Began Life as a Stem Cell
By Dr. Chuck McGowen

If you happen to believe that stem cells are insignificant single celled creatures like the amoeba, think again; that is unless you happen to consider yourself as being insignificant. When one of your father’s sperm impregnated your mother’s ovum (egg), a soul was added from God above and your humanity began; aside from your size and the number of cells making up your body, your being contained every bit of genetic information that you would be having until the day you die.

The sperm contained 23 of your father’s 46 chromosomes and the ovum 23 of your mother’s 46 chromosomes. If you are a male the Y sex chromosome was contributed and if you are a female dad contributed an X sex chromosome; men being XY and women being XX relative to those particular DNA and gene baring chromosomes. The other 44 chromosomes that make up your humanity (known as autosomes) determined such uniquely “you” characteristics as skin, hair and eye color, height, bone structure, intelligence capacity, vocal characteristics, athletic ability, etc.

Within seconds after the conception of your fully human life the chromosomes doubled and split and that first cell divided; with each new cell having the same genetic component of 46 chromosomes. By the 15th day of cell replication you reached the stage of human development known as the blastocyst. At the point your cell lines began to organize and differentiate into three individual cell layers; the endoderm, mesoderm and ectoderm.

It is at this point that embryonic stem cell researchers would like to have you in their laboratories so as to experiment and hopefully develop the means to make the cells in your blastocyst into organs and tissues for other people that they consider more worthy of life than you. By the way, the current President of the United States shares that same low opinion of you and other humans at this stage in development. Of course you don’t have the capacity to speak up for yourself at the blastocyst stage of your human development and so others like me who value your unique and promising life have to do the speaking for you.

From the endoderm you acquired your gastrointestinal

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17DOLE2(595 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Great material fo Saturday Night Live!

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18twin(18 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

IslandMike you should go back to the island you came from!! Your clueless.

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19DOLE2(595 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Since 1942 this area was run by Dems....look around

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20Silence_Dogood(1677 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

fudgeputer look around, this town was destroyed by 70 years of Democrat control. Your entire life this town was under the control of Democrat Politicians, so if you want to blame anyone , blame them.

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21DOLE2(595 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Ryan did better then Obama

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22jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago



FOXNEWS 10,019,827
CBS 8,308,421
ABC 8,287,610
NBC 7,851,757
MSNBC 4,378,671
CNN 4,145,951


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23jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Hey HURR, wait until you see the commercial the Repubs will broadcast, probably this evening, showing Biden laughing during the whole commercial, while Ryan is making his point. It's a stitch about big mouth Biden.

I have never seen anyone so disrespectful in any debate on any level.

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24IslandMike(764 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Elect Mitt-Flopper and Paul, they'll bury a few thousand more US soldiers (they're part of the 47% anyhow) and spend another TRILLION a year in Iran. If you like hate misery and WAR, then they're your guys.

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25jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

WWI........Woodrow Wilson......Democrat
Korean Conflict..Harry Truman..Democrat
Viet Nam......John Kennedy......Democrat

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26redeye1(5678 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

fudputer Who put the program in place that allowed that to happen. The D party with Peloser,. Reid the queer wanted everyone to have a home. So please place the blame where it reallty belongs The Liberals who thought that was a good idea.

IslandMike, Who allows you to be on the computer? Your mommy , does she know what you are doing on with it LOL! 10,000 comedians out of work and you are trying to be one.

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27Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

GOP/tea loss
America won
Last word
All the rest is BS

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28redeye1(5678 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Freeatlast Obummy wins, we all lose .BIG TIME!! This country needs direction and it needs it now. So my family will be voting for Romney / Ryan. I'm tired of all the freebies that Obummy has handed out to the lazy people who have made WELFARE a way of life.

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29RobertH(51 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Long as you're without a clue and haven't been paying any attention Ryan did OK.

To those with even half a clue Ryan was a lying weasel.

Then we get to the last part of the debate where Ryan states he'll impose his personal beliefs on the rest of us and reigniting the Republicans War on Women.

Sealed the deal for me.

How could I vote for Ryan when he has no clue about the First Amendment. ?

Ryan was in over his head about the whole debate, then fatally face planted at the end.

What a Loser.

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30WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Under King O-Blame-Ya

-Al Qaeda is ALIVE
-US Ambassador is DEAD
-47 million on FOOD STAMPS
-16.2 trillion dollars in DEBT
-Gasoline prices up 250%
-Grocery prices up 15%
-Income down 8.2%
-MILLIONS left the labor force
-43 months of 8%+ unemployment
-Are YOU better off now than four years ago?


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31dawn421(265 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

hey william if this is the only crap you post on here for every comment what will you post after the election? you are a complete douche

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32jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Biden lied. He lied about everything. He lied about Libya and what they knew and when they knew it. He lied when he accused the Republicans/Ryan of cutting the security budget. Absolute nonsense. The Republicans voted to cut the amount of increase on spending for State Dept buildings around the world. Once again we need to ask..."Who's in charge"? If Obama and Biden thought there was a weakness in security of our embassey in Libya shouldn't they have shored it up? If the security issue was caused by funding (and it wasn't) shouldn't they have shifted funds? These bums are like little kids in school. Whenever they fail they blame the kid behind them or someone else. Ridiculous.

He lied about jobs and the economy.
He lied about the Catholic Church and contraception and abortion.
He explained that he is a devout Catholic and he believes in the sanctity of life. He said his religion and his beliefs are against abortion. He stated that he believes that life starts at contraception. He stated his personal beliefs to be exactly as Paul Ryan's. The only difference is he, Biden, does not believe that he "...should impose his beliefs on others". DUH??????? If he believes in the sanctity of life and that life begins at contraception then how can he not impose that belief on others? How can he support ones right to MURDER???? These guys toss around words as if they have no meaning. They speak out of both sides of their mouths and through every other orifice in their body. I understand that Obama and Biden are politicians. What I don't understand is how any intelligent person can listen to this double speak and still give these bums any consideration for votes!!!!!!!

By the way..did you hear one positive plan for the future from Biden or Obama? Do they have a plan for the next 4 years? What's their plan to balance the budget? What's their plan to reduce the debt? What's their plan for Social Security (which they say is going bankrupt)? What's their plan for Medicare (which they say is going bankrupt)? They have NO plan!!!!
Axelrod and Obama and the Dems have no plan. They have a record of failure that they are running away from. Their strategy is so obvious ands simple that it is insulting...or at least it should be...if you have a brain. They offer nothing and all they do is criticize Romney's plans, saying they are not specific enough and when Romney adds more specifity, they ponce on the details and demogogue the issue.

Below the Catholic Vote organization explains their position regarding Biden and the Catholic Church.
Folks, throw these lying bums out!

He lied. And he did it on purpose.

Biden said Catholic charities would not have to pay for contraception and other morally objectionable services.

The lie was so bad, that the U.S. Bishops issued a public statement today calling out Biden for his “inaccurate statement of fact.”

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33jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Did you see those beautiful teeth on Biden. I wonder where he bought them. They look different than the ones he had 10 years ago.

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34jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

In the following interview between CNN’s Anderson Cooper and Pat Smith, the mother of State Department employee, veteran Sean Smith, claims she talked to Clinton, Obama, and Biden about the murder of her son.
Here’s part of the transcript of the interview (the video is below) where Ms. Smith states that she pleaded with Obama, Clinton and Biden to tell her what happened to her son:
SMITH: [I told them,] “Please, tell me what happened. Just, just tell me what happened. Please, don’t give me any baloney. I don’t want political stuff. Just tell me the truth. What happened…” I look at TV and I see bloody hand prints on walls thinking, my G-d, is that my son’s? I don’t know if he was shot, I don’t know, I don’t know. They haven’t told me anything. They’re still studying it. And the things that they are telling me are outright lies. That Susan Rice, she talked to me personally and she said, she said, “This is the way it was, it was because of this film that came out.”

CNN: So she told you personally that she thought it was a result of the video of the protest.
SMITH: Oh, absolutely. In fact, all of them did. All of them did. Leon Panetta actually took my face in his hands like this and he said, “Trust me. I will tell you what happened.” And, so far, he’s told me nothing. Nothing at all. And I want to know.
CNN: It’s important for you to know all of the details no matter how horrible …
CNN: … no matter how tough they are to hear.
SMITH: Exactly. I told them if it’s such a secret thing fine, take me in another room, whisper in my ear what happened so that I know and we’ll go from there. But no … At first i was so proud because they were treating me so nice when I went to that reception … I cried on Obama’s shoulder, and then he kind of looked off into the distance, so that was worthless to me. I want to know, for G-d’s sakes. Or for Allah’s sake, or for whoever’s sake is there.
CNN: You deserve answers.
SMITH: I think so. I believe I do. I believe it. It is my son. I had him — I told Obama personally, I said look, I had him for his first 17 years and then he went into the service, then you got him. And, I won’t say it the way I said it. But I said, “You screwed up, you didn’t do a good job, I lost my son.” And they said, “We’ll get back to you. I promise, I promise you, I will get back to you…” They would at least acknowledge that I have a right to know something, something other than, “Oh, we are checking up on it.” Or, “Trust me,” I like that one the best of all: “Trust me, I will let you know.” Well, I don’t trust you anymore. I don’t trust you anymore…


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35jojuggie(1728 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Proverbs 29:9
"If a wise man has an argument with a fool,the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet."
Proverbs 29:9
Look it up


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36WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago


Another tolerant leftist loon, eh? Do you care to debate any of the facts contained within or would you rather just regurgitate your vitriol? We know the answer. Thanks to you as well for illustrating to everyone just how vile the left has become. And if you have a problem with my messages go take a look at and tell it to another vile leftist here- IslandMike. I am merely rebutting. I'm the antidote not the poison. You are insignificant.

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37WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago


I totally forgot. Special delivery... this is for you!

Under King O-Blame-Ya

-Al Qaeda is ALIVE
-US Ambassador is DEAD
-47 million on FOOD STAMPS
-16.2 trillion dollars in DEBT
-Gasoline prices up 250%
-Grocery prices up 15%
-Income down 8.2%
-MILLIONS left the labor force
-43 months of 8%+ unemployment
-Are YOU better off now than four years ago?


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38timOthy(802 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago


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39dawn421(265 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

point was idiot, no matter the article you post the same insignificant bs, what does this have to do with the article on the bus driver that punched someone???????????? that is my point you arrogant ass. you put the same comment on every thing you post

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40IslandMike(764 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

Thr Neo-Cons should push for a universal dental plan after Obama knocked Mitt's teeth out Tuesday night.

Binders full of women...I knew the idiot would put his foot in his mouth sooner or later. It wasn't good enough to tick off 47% of the electorate, he now ticked off 52% of them!!!

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41WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago


One of the points I have been illustrating to everyone is the boundless vitriol and hatred spewing forth from members and supporters of the modern left. Thanks for helping me out.

By the way, the "everything" is not two separate words.

-Al Qaeda is ALIVE
-US Ambassador is DEAD
-47 million on FOOD STAMPS
-16.2 trillion dollars in DEBT
-Gasoline prices up 250%
-Grocery prices up 15%
-Income down 8.2%
-MILLIONS left the labor force
-43 months of 8%+ unemployment
-Are YOU better off now than four years ago?


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42WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

The complete list of Green Energy Failures. These are all faltering or bankrupt green-energy companies sponsored by President O-Blame-Everyone-Elsa-a:

1 Evergreen Solar ($24 million)*
2 SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3 Solyndra ($535 million)*
4 Beacon Power ($69 million)*
5 AES’s subsidiary Eastern Energy ($17.1 million)
6 Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
7 SunPower ($1.5 billion)
8 First Solar ($1.46 billion)
9 Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
10 EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
11 Amonix ($5.9 million)
12 National Renewable Energy Lab ($200 million)
13 Fisker Automotive ($528 million)
14 Abound Solar ($374 million)*
15 A123 Systems ($279 million)*
16 Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($6 million)
17 Johnson Controls ($299 million)
18 Schneider Electric ($86 million)
19 Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
20 ECOtality ($126.2 million)
21 Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
22 Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
23 Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
24 Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
25 Range Fuels ($80 million)*
26 Thompson River Power ($6.4 million)*
27 Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
28 LSP Energy ($2.1 billion)*
29 UniSolar ($100 million)*
30 Aure Dynamics ($120 million)*
31 GreenVolts ($500,000)
32 Vestas ($50 million)
33 LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($150 million)
34 Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
35 Navistar ($10 million)
36 Satcon ($3 million)*

*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.

Reproduced from http://blog.heritage.org/2012/10/18/p...

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43cambridge(4162 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

william, swing on this....This is the fourth time that I've seen you post this same BS list. The very first company on your list, Evergreen Solar received NO federal funding and I've provided a link as proof just like I did the last three times you posted your BS.

It took about a minute to find that link but I'm not going to bother looking up the rest for you. Don't you know by now that when you lie on this board people are going to call you out? I know that doesn't matter to teabagger/republicans, they will just tell the same lie again tomorrow. Just shows how desperate these clowns are.


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44WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago


I respond to vitriol with vitriol. If you want to use pejoratives and expletives then expect a similar response. If you want to have a polite, respectful debate I am game. We can agree to drop all the inflammatory language and debate the facts instead. For the record you began this by using your favorite word in response to a post I made some time ago. You made no point other than to call names and object to my point.

"hey william if this is the only crap you post on here for every comment what will you post after the election? you are a complete douche"

Remember that? What was your point here? Where is the debate? Now stop acting like I am the one that makes no point and calls people names. You have been doing that from the start.

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45WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago


Tell me if this looks familiar:

Reproduced from http://blog.heritage.org/2012/10/18/p...

That is at the bottom of the list. Do you know what that means? It means that I didn't write it. If there are errors then I am glad to make adjustments but the list is not mine. Heritage made it and I am quoting it. Go attack Heritage if there are errors, though I doubt there are. I'll look into your point though and if the list is faulty I'll correct it. Hope that clears up the confusion.

By the way, I have said multiple times that the posting of the lists and data is in RESPONSE to other members doing the same only with leftist tilt. Nobody was out criticizing them, not even you. Which leads me to what appears to be the point- that lefties like yourself object to the information itself but attack the poster instead.

Like I have said to others, if you want to have a respectful debate I am game but you are going to have to drop the attack language. Can you? Is it possible not to HATE a person with differing political views? Hating a person and being intolerant of their political views is called bigotry by the way. That is also a point I have been making here. There are many members that are lefties that engage in outright bigotry almost daily. It is wrong and I am calling all of you out onto the carpet for it.

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46WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago


I don't think you should get your information from a lefty newspaper instead of a government agency. Here is the information from the following Government source:


Federal Award ID: 09448851ST0001

138 BARTLETT ST, Marlborough, Massachusetts


Obligation Date:

Obligation Amount:

The Government guaranteed this obligation. This company is now going bankrupt and the taxpayers will have to pay for whatever transactions are unfulfilled. Obama did this through the DOE. Go look for yourself. There are hundreds of BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars out there in programs like this.

Go to the Heritage site and look at the list. You can click through each of the claims into a Government website and prove the veracity of the information for yourself.

Here it is:


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47WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago


I just noticed that some of the links do not land in a Government website. Some link to articles in major outlets such as Bloomberg, etc.

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48taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 9 months ago

hmm....William I guess they have no response when you are able to show proof of all you are saying.

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