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Why did police in Florida buy aggressor’s self-defense claim?



Published: Fri, March 23, 2012 @ 12:00 a.m.

After the Feb. 26 shooting of a 17-year-old Miami youth in Sanford, Fla., authorities were assiduous in testing for drugs and alcohol ... in the body of the dead boy. The 28-year-old shooter, meanwhile, went home without having to undergo any tests and still packing the 9mm semiautomatic handgun he used to shoot Trayvon Martin to death.

Police, it appears, showed more deference to George Zimmerman, a self-described neighborhood watch captain, than they would have given to one of their own in an officer-involved shooting.

Is it any wonder that the circumstances surrounding the Sanford Police Department’s multiple failures in investigating the shooting sparked outrage in the local community and a growing sense of disbelief in the rest of the nation?

Trayvon Martin was a high school student staying with his father’s fiancee in a gated community who walked to a nearby convenience store for snacks.

George Zimmerman was a 28-year-old man with a spotty employment record and a criminal record based on his assault of police officers during an under-age liquor investigation several years ago. A picture is emerging of Zimmerman as a wannabe-police officer who was educationally and psychologically ill-equipped for the job. Yet he managed to get a concealed-carry license and, so armed, assigned himself to neighborhood patrol duty.

Zimmerman spotted Trayvon walking in the rain with his hoodie pulled over his head — as one might expect in the rain — and decided he was suspicious. He reported his suspicions in a 911 call, and if, at that point, he had let the police do their job, as a neighborhood watch person is supposed to do, Trayvon would have been home with his snacks by 7 p.m. and back in school today.

Deadly confrontation

Instead, Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and chased the “suspect,” disregarding an order from the 911 dispatcher that he not pursue the boy and wait for police. And, at some point, he and Martin scuffled, and Zimmerman pulled his pistol and shot the boy.

By the time Sanford police arrived, Martin was dead and Zimmerman was claiming he acted in self defense. And that was good enough for police, who seem to have given the broadest possible reading to Florida’s “Stand Your Ground Law,” which encourages victims to meet force with force. But Martin was the victim. He had done nothing wrong, yet his appearance — young, black, wearing a hoodie and walking in the rain — had aroused Zimmerman’s suspicions. And Zimmerman, totally untrained for the task he assigned himself, decided to play police officer. And the real police officers decided to give the killer a pass — without even running a background check on him.

A growing awareness

Monday it will be one month since Trayvon Martin was gunned down. And only now this story has gained national attention. Nearly a million people have signed a petition calling for Zimmerman to be arrested and charged. Chilling tapes of 911 calls have been released on which the sounds of Martin’s last seconds on earth can be heard in the background. Zimmerman’s chief apologist, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Jr. has stepped aside, at least temporarily, saying he had become a focal point of citizen anger.

And somewhere — who knows where — George Zimmerman remains free, having never been charged, never tested, never seriously challenged in his unsubstantiated claim of self defense.

Only Lady Justice remains more invisible than Zimmerman.


Comments

1foxyglo(372 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

DEAD WRONG, WHO THE HELL DID HE THINK HE WAS.HE KILLED THAT BOY IN COLD BLOOD. THEY ARE TRYING TO DO NOTHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN, LIKE HE DID NOT MATTER.WHY NOT TRY HIM LIKE EVERY OTHER MURDERER ???????? WHEN WILL IT STOP ???

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2commoncitizen(961 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Al Sharpton will get it resolved. What a joke he is. Where does he get the money for all of his venture?
We don't know all of what happened, only what the news media is telling us.

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3cambridge(2996 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Q: Why did police in Florida buy aggressor's self-defense claim?

A: Because it's Florida.

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4thinkthentalk(259 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

The shooter was obviously a birther and a rushbo fan.

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5Fred(130 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

"Concealed Carry" is a joke. Let's get all of the guns off the streets!

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6Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Amazes me that Sharpton (huge racist btw) only slithers out when this sort of thing happens. Why don't he address the problems of young wanna be gangstas that are killed or kill someone everyday. No, God forbid it's a black/white issue and he's out full force. Pitiful.

foxyglo

Where you there? You hear what the media says and you make judgement. SMH.

fred

Why give the criminals the upper hand??

And where in the world did they come up with WHITE Hispanic? I have never heard of that till this story.

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7sam_carter(87 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Its too bad. Romney,Obama and Gingrich call it a tragedy now that it has made national news. i think they are right. It should have been handled better by the local police.

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8Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

And explain why this was just a side note in the AP. Where is the outrage here? How come Obama didn't comment on this? Just saying.....

Teens set kid on fire for being 'white boy'

"They rushed him on the porch as he tried to get the door open," Coon told KMBC. "(One of them) poured the gasoline, then flicked the Bic, and said, 'This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.'"

By lighting the gasoline, the second attacker "produced a large fireball burning the face and hair" of the boy, according to a Kansas City Police Department report obtained by KCTV.

"It was pretty bad stuff," Detective Stacey Taylor told the TV station, adding that police are concerned the boy may have suffered damage to his eyes and lungs.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-...

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9sam_carter(87 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Thats terrible Life. Does the article say anything about prosecuting the attackers? are they in jail now?

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10redvert(2058 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Obviously cambridge must know more than the rest of us about this issue. Did the shooter make a mistake, possibly! Did the young man put his hood up so he would look suspicious? Yes!

Q. Why is it that police in California will not tow the vehicle of a illegal that does not have a drivers license where they will of a licensed citizen?

A. 1) These are undocumented democrats.

2) This is California, the land of fruits and nuts!

Worry about your own state's problems and there are plenty of them, right cambridge!!

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11redvert(2058 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I might add, did you hear what obowser said, "If I had a son he would look just like Trayvon" How sweet!!!

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12palmer16121(116 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I have to respond. NO KID REGARDLESS OF RACE NEEDS TO BE MURDERED! Now...I know I ain't classy to yell, but, From what I've known, Trayvon Martin was doing nothing wrong. In fact, if you bothered to listen to the 911 tape, they've ordered Zimmerman not to pursue. What did he do? He pursued anyway. For those of you who still fell it's fashionable to use unoriginal, unfunny, and uninspired name calling...it's quite tacky. In fact, even Newt Gingrich decided to try to score politcal points off it.

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13redvert(2058 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Well at least obowser did not try to score points with his little comment!!! I am sure that if it had been a white kid that died at the hands of a black that obowser plus Al and the gang would of weighed in also......right?......right???

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14thinkthentalk(259 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Come on!!! A black guy killing a white kid? Who you kidding? He'd be caught in 24 hrs, tried and executed by now. The rep governor called for an investigation. The romney and gingrich called it a tragedy. Why do you guys always spin it into a racial black vs white issue with the president? Youre not chastising romney or gingrich for weighing in... right? right?

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15Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

TTT

"Why do you guys always spin it into a racial black vs white issue with the president? "

The president has no business to have any say in the matter. Remember when The president said, “…number one; any of us would be pretty angry. Number two; that the Cambridge police acted STUPIDLY in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And number three; what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that’s just a fact.”

So who's the one pushing the racial black vs white issue? Obama? Looks like it to me....

Really Mr. President? Any of us would be pretty angry? A police officer quickly responds to your house, which is being broken into, and he asks you to properly identify yourself so that he does not leave a burglar in your home, and the president believes the natural response is anger. If by “any of us” the president means people prejudiced against police officers, or black liberals with a racial bias against white police officers, then I guess he’s right. If he means rational Americans of any race, he’s way off base.

The president, an apparent expert in law enforcement, also thinks Gates should not have been arrested after he proved he was the homeowner. Let me help the president clear that matter up. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct for his yelling, swearing, and generally tumultuous behavior which clearly alarmed and annoyed other neighborhood residents – not for being in someone else’s home.

As for the “long history” of blacks and Latinos being “disproportionately” stopped by law enforcement; no evidence exists to support such a claim. Despite the MEDIA FRENZY over anecdotal incidents of racial bias in police stops and searches, there is no credible evidence to support the notion that police officers in general treat any minority group unfairly.

Continue reading on Examiner.com President Obama and stupid, white cops - New York Conservative | Examiner.comhttp://www.examiner.com/conservative-...

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16doubled(210 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I read these posts and see clear divison --- and sadly it's along party lines. Is this what we've sunk to in this country, that some will defend a man, (who may have murdered a 17 year old kid) simply b/c some of the people condemning the killing are labeled as democrats...And we condemn a 17 year old kid (who by all accounts wasn't doing anything but walking down the street before he was followed and then chased down) simply b/c it APPEARS that democrats are the ones protesting the issue....I mean really, is everything now going to be political? All I can say is this, i don't know everything that happened between these two guys after zimmerman caught up to him and confronted him......But I do know this-- 911 told zimmerman not to chase the kid, zimmerman ignored the order and chased the kid, eventually zimmerman caught up to him, zimmeman had a 9mm pistol, the kid had a bag of skittles and an iced tea, subsequently the kid was on the ground, zimmerman was standing above him and straddling him, the kid was screaming for help, and finally zimmerman shot the kid in the heart. Now, this is from witness statements, not the media's opinion about what happened...

These facts don't sound political to me, they sound like murder. So if you defend zimmerman's actions simply b/c you hate obama -- then try this -- imagine bush is still president, and it was your 17 yr old son that just got killed in the backyard of your neighbor's house. Then, imagine how you would feel if the neighborhood watch guy who just killed your son was sent home afterward, free as a bird, and no questions asked. And remember, in this scenario, bush is the president. Would you still defend what the guy did??? But more importantly, would you blame your son for getting himself murdered???

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17thinkthentalk(259 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Thanks doubled. Youve restored my faith in humanity somewhat. I have a 14 and 17 yr old boys. They wear hooded sweatshirts, when its cold. And yes, we are caucasian.

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18biggee(43 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

There has to be a part of this story that is being left out. The picture of a very young boy that is being used doesn't look 17 years old. What ever happened I can't get past the fact that zimmerman wasn't arrested and at the very least questioned further. It doesn't make sense that with just what has been in the media is all there is to know. This is 2012 fo Gods sake. Police must have some reason or other evidence for not charging him right? Sad waste of young life.

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19Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

doub

"These facts don't sound political to me, they sound like murder. So if you defend zimmerman's actions simply b/c you hate obama -- then try this -- imagine bush is still president, and it was your 17 yr old son that just got killed in the backyard of your neighbor's house. "

It's NOT political Skippy, and their is no reason for Obama to get involved. It is not the Presidents problem, it's Florida's. Would Obama make a statement if the kid was white? So why does Obama have to put his two cents in? Is he going to call the police force "stupid" once again? Once again, the President does not need to interfere with the case. Obuma is just pushing race relations. And I still don't understand what a "WHITE" Hispanic is? Never heard of that description of someone.

"All I can say is this, i don't know everything that happened between these two guys after zimmerman caught up to him and confronted him...."

And you still don't know Skippy. You hear what the MEDIA and the MEDIA FRENZY come out with but not the true cold hard facts. That is what courts and the justice system are for, not backseat wanna be lawyers. SMH at such stupidity.
BTW I'am not defending this guy, if this guy is guilty then he should be punished according. But unlike you I don't jump to conclusions because of the MEDIA. Understand Skippy?

ttt

"They wear hooded sweatshirts, when its cold. And yes, we are caucasian."

I hope they don't wear their pants halfway down and show their underwear to, because that is so low class and disgusting. SMH

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20thinkthentalk(259 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

LOL, no, they do not.
Romney and Gingrich weighed in on this also, both calling it a tragedy. In fact, they did before the president did. Im assuming your argument pertains to them also, but you dont mention that.

I agree with you about the justice system, but the incident has brought to light the wisdom of the "stand your ground law". How about this scenario. You and i could be on vacation down there, unarmed in our plaid shorts, get killed by a drug sob, and he claims self defense....

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21doubled(210 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Lifes2 -- why are you calling me skippy?? Anyway, the facts as I reiterated them are exactly that -- the facts. And what do you care if obama mentioned the incident. I mean really, why do you care at all if the president of the United States briefly addresses an issue that has happened on U.S. soil, particularly when it's prompted hundreds of thousand of demonstrators to march in protest of laws that can tragically effect U.S. citizens. Is is that strange to you that our president would address the matter.

And if you weren't aware, you freaking moron, the kid has his hood up b/c it was freaking raining. And I'll say it one last time, b/c I listend to zimmerman's 911 call --- the cops specifically told him not to chase the kid (who was running away b/c some unknown man was following him) but zimmerman disobeyed the directive and chased the kid down anyway. Then while the kid was laying on the ground and screaming for help, zimmerman stood over the kid and shot him in the chest. This information comes from the witnesses who called into to 911. NOW, ARE YOU GOING TO DISPUTE THESE FACTS --- if so, provide sources. If not, then piss off, you little, little man.

And by the way, Saxon and redvert -- by your comments on this thread, you've both clearly demonstrated that you are nothing more than flat out racists. YOu have no credibility left on this issue...In fact, you should have just come out and said you're happy that this black kid is dead. You pretty much said it already. I'm embarrassed for you and I'm embarassed by you.

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22thinkthentalk(259 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

doubled. Its no use. These birthers get their version of the events from fox and rushbo. They dont know any better. Whatever the "MEDIA" says is leftwing something or other, so they dont believe it. Fox/rush determined that it was the kids fault, thats how they reported it, thats what they believe. That is what is truly wrong with this country.
The shooter had a broken nose and scrape on his head. DUH! Obviously the kid is fighting for his life! I certainly hope he got his licks in. He didnt start it. He didnt have a tv on his shoulder or crowbar in his hand!
Having said that, yeah, zimmerman made a really bad mistake. He realizes it, they say hes crying about it. The stupidity is that stupid law and how the police handled it. Proof? Nobody, no politician, is defending the police chief.

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23Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

doub

"""" I mean really, why do you care at all if the president of the United States briefly addresses an issue that has happened on U.S. soil, particularly when it's prompted hundreds of thousand of demonstrators to march in protest of laws that can tragically effect U.S. citizens. Is is that strange to you that our president would address the matter."""

The President has NO business to address a ongoing investigation. You think he would have learned the last time he did. All he is doing is separating races. But you must be to blind to see that. Take the binders off Skippy.

"""And if you weren't aware, you freaking moron, the kid has his hood up b/c it was freaking raining. """"

Skippy, chill, Did I mention anything about the Hoodie? Do you see anywhere I mention the Hoodie? Humor me.

""""NOW, ARE YOU GOING TO DISPUTE THESE FACTS --- if so, provide sources. If not, then piss off, you little, little man."""

What facts Skippy?? Sanford police questioned and filed a written report of 6 witnesses. Six, in addition to the crime scene and interrogating Zimmerman. It just might be that they know more than you do. Just maybe. But it sounds like you know all the facts and exactly what happened. Maybe you should take a trip to Sanford, FL and help the cops out down there. I think they would appreciate it.

TTT

"""doubled. Its no use. These birthers get their version of the events from fox and rushbo. They dont know any better.""""

Birther? Me? Surely you jest. I'm a democrat but I read everything, left, right, middle, under, over and on and on. I'm not one sided like some of you people. I read from ALL sides and all angles and listen to everyone's opinion then I form my OWN opinion. Is that hard to comprehend?

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24WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

@doubled
@thinkthentalk

I would like you to explain for all us morons out here how the phrase “Okay, we don't need you to do that” constitutes a lawful order from a Police dispatcher for Zimmerman not to follow Martin. The dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following the suspect, to which Zimmerman replied affirmatively. Is there any part of the phrase in quotes above that even remotely sounds like a lawful order to stop as issued by a Police Officer? Please explain.

While you're at it, I would like for you to explain how Zimmerman has committed murder when (1) several 9-11 calls reveal Zimmerman repeatedly screaming desperately for help over and over again before a gun was fired, (2) paramedics and police that responded at the scene reported Zimmerman with injuries and blood coming from his face and the back of his skull, (3) an eyewitness named "John" that reported to the Police on the night of the shooting that he saw "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911" and "...when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Sounds to me like some of us might be "Double-Dumb" and might benefit from a little research so we can "Think Before We Talk."

You might also want to examine the reasons you are so willing to accept the White-Hates-Black narrative so present in the mainstream media and our elected officials.

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25Ceaman(54 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

What a great idea if that man who walks his dog and lets it cr#p on my lawn can I shoot him as I do feel threatened I may get Toxicara Canis. Also the next door neighbor's six year old who kicks his ball on my lawn it may break my window now that is a threat I could be killed by the flying glass. Or any other trivial reasons I could come up with. Too many guns in the hands of idiots. Stupid laws written in haste with no thought of the consequences.

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26DAL(90 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Regardless of the color this young man skin, this should have never happened!!! Zimmerman was told by the police not to follow this young man, that they would handle it. Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon and Zimmerman was carrying a gun.. It almost looks as though Zimmerman was looking for a confrontation with a reaction!!! The Sanford Police listened to Zimmerman telling them that it was self defense and never took Zimmerman down to the statioin for further questioning, did a drug/alcohol test on him(which they did do on Trayvon), took his clothes or gun from him. That would be like someone driving crazy and the police pull them over, an they say " I took a Sudafed and that why I was driving errantically". The police tell them "That's Fine, Just Go Home". We know that wouldn't happen, so why did the Sanford Police do what they did??

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27thinkthentalk(259 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

“Okay, we don't need you to do that”
Sounds pretty clear and specific to me. Would YOU need more than that?
"how Zimmerman has committed murder "
He pulled the trigger of the gun on an unarmed kid.
"explain for all us morons out here"
You guys are self-explanatory.

Look, i wish this never happened, and i hope it doesnt happen again. Can we all agree to that? and im done

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28Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

TTT

Wow, I pray to God you never get Jury duty. You only seem to listen to the Media accounts and that's sad. I hope you know their are 2 sides to every story. Have you heard any of Zimmermans account? smh

Look, i wish this never happened, and i hope it doesnt happen again. Can we all agree to that?

I agree 100%

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29walter_sobchak(1894 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

This is truly a tragedy but I don't think we know all the facts of this case. As I understand the Florida law, all the shooter needs is to feel under threat of imminent danger whether it is by a gun, a knife, an imposing physical stature, etc. Now, we don't know if the youth attempted to go at the man but being shot in the back raises questions. Let's let due process run its course.

Now, if anyone believes that the police will protect you, your possessions or heighborhood, you are being naive. The police are reactionary for the most part. If a citizen wants to patrol his neighborhood to deter crime, I have no problem as long as they are doing it lawfully. Look at what has happened to the neighborhoods on the south side of Y-town. This is what happens when people stop caring. But, to have the race-baiting Al Shapton get involved is ridiculous. Maybe he can explain how he distorted the truth (as opposed to outright lying) about the Tawana Brawley investigation among others.

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30woolyd(579 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

The more I read the sicker I become. It appears Obama is to blame for everything. I love you hypocrites who say the citizens should always follow police orders but now are defending this man for not doing so. Well lets pray some of you idiots on here are outside one day and you put your hood or winter hat on and some vigilante deems you suspicious and puts a bullet in your chest.

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31woolyd(579 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Or better yet maybe a bullet in the chest of your son, daughter, niece, nephew, or grandchild who was walking home from the corner store.

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32uptowngirl(110 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

The police did an injustice to both Martin and Zimmerman by not investigating this properly and aggressively. Zimmerman simply could have shot Martin in the leg, thigh or foot and not in the chest. Many people will never believe that this incident was self defense. I wonder if Zimmerman did not create some of his own injuries--a car door slammed in one's face could cause a broken nose and the back bruising. Grass stains could be caused by a quick roll on lawn when the grass is wet.
My opinion--Zimmerman is in a neighborhood watch to obtain some type of "fame" or heroism with the hope that public recognition will help him land a job in law enforcement.

FL residents and tourists should avoid Stanford like the plague. There should be an investigative protocol for Stand Your Ground cases. If there is currently a protocol in place, it clearly is not adequate.

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33WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

@thinkthentalk

Yes, I would need more than the casual statement “okay, we don't need you to do that” to understand that I was being ordered to stop following the individual. Perhaps a phrase such as "I am ordering you to stop following the individual" or something like that would help me to understand. The dispatcher, just like us, heard Zimmerman get out of his vehicle, asked if Zimmerman was following and said "okay, we don't need you to do that." aThe dispatcher never mentioned it again even though Zimmerman can clearly be heard seeking to locate Trayvon on foot. We cannot play language games to get our way TTT. The dispatcher did not order Zimmerman to stop following. Any other interpretation is nonsense. There is no lawful order to stop following in those words. Try it in court and see what you get if you disagree.

Do you really believe that if I pull the trigger on an unarmed person, no matter the circumstances, I have committed murder? Are you seriously this thick? That conclusion is simply stupid. There is no requirement in the law that a person verify an individual is armed before acting in self defense. One must only legitimately fear that they are in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death. Your assertion is moronically uninformed.

"Can we all agree to that? and im done"

No, we cannot all agree. Persons have the right and responsibility to defend themselves against unwarranted aggression. Zimmerman did the right thing and the only thing he could have done since none of the pansies that heard him screaming for help assisted him. That kid is dead because he attacked Zimmerman and none of the cowards that heard the cries for help responded. That left Zimmerman no choice but to kill in self defense, which he obviously struggled mortally to do. It is clear from the duration and severity of the screams that Zimmerman believed he was about to lose his life to Trayvon. Go listen to the tapes.

You're done because you have no legitimate argument aside from the crap fed into you by the mainstream media. You didn't even TRY to address the points I raised, each of which completely invalidates your uninformed opinion. Go be done.

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34WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

@thinkthentalk, all the other doubters

Just found out from digging further that Treyvon was staying in the neighborhood because he was suspended from school. He was suspended from school for having marijuana in his backpack.

Innocent little angel indeed.

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35walter_sobchak(1894 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Read about this case in the Orlando Sentinel:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2...

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36WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Charges should never be brought against Zimmerman. The Police interviewed all the eyewitnesses and recorded all the 911 call. Each corroborates Zimmerman's own statements made to Police that night. All the physical evidence supports self defense as well. George Zimmerman should not have to endure a murder trial just so that the race-baiters and race-haters can be appeased. He has already endured enough. This thug-wanna-be drug-using/dealing punk was looking for a fight when he attacked Zimmerman. Thank God Zimmerman had the means to defend himself or the punk would have killed him.

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37doubled(210 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Swinger and Life - wait a minute -- do you mean he was suspended from school b/c he had an empty marijuana baggie in his backpack?? Is this true?? If so, tehn of course the young man deserved to be shot -- after all, he wasn't an innocent angel, right??

Is that how it works for you? Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you sound, using a school suspension as the basis for portraying this kid as a thug. I mean, honestly --- you are truly pathetic. DO you now feel even more justified in defending zimmerman chasing down an unarmed kid who was simply walking home. And it doesn't change the fact that the night he was killed he didn't have any drugs in his system. Did zimmerman have anything in his system that night - maybe a little liquid courage for the neighborhood watch hero on a cold rainy night?? I guess we'll never know, will we, b/c the cops let him go home to his family that night.

And of the six witnesses one of them said the guy on the ground was the shooter, the other five said different and/or did not confirm this statement.

And interestingly - You hold up zimmerman's actions as self defense, which you assert he has a right to. Yet you condemn the kid for defending himself against an individual who was following him through the neighborhood on a dark, rainy night. This is someone who is not a police officer, who is not wearing a uniform, who is not carrying a badge, who is not not driving in a police cruiser, and could not shout out stop, police. What would you do if some guy was chasing you through your neighborhood?? Would you say that you had the right to turn and face him down?? So does this kid have the right to turn and stand his ground against an unknown threat, or is that just the right of the neighborhood watch guys??

And finally, the icing on the cake...The cops told him not to chase after the kid. The duties of official neighborhood watch programs is to OBSERVE AND REPORT -- that's it and that's all -- no guns, no knives, no confrontations. And that is why the dispatcher told him not to pursue. Zimmerman disregarded this order or innstruction, call it whatever you like -- The bottom line is that the Stand Your Ground Law does not contemplate, nor permit, chasing someone down who you THINK looks suspicious, as justification for using deadly force, because once you are not faced with a threat and you chase them down to confront them, you are no longer standing your ground, you're standing on theirs.

Now, zimmerman may not be a monster or even a bad person. I don't know. But he made a fatal mistake by chasing after someone who wasn't doing anything other than walking down the sidewalk. I think at some point he will officially admit to that. People get convicted of murder all the time just for making a mistake.. And a jury should decide this based on the facts.

And just so you know, I'm not done -- you keep bringing up ridiculously weak arguments -- and I'll keep dismantling them one by one.

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38borylie(790 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I'm curious. As a racist (I'll call myself this before others do) what do white people do when a black kills a white person? (Miss Angeline Fimognari)? The Black Panthers and every race baiter in the country is mobilizing and threatening a racial uprising. I understand the civil rights aspect of this being a minority that possibly had his civil rights violated,thus the difference of an elderly white woman who didn't have these rights. How about Raymond Fife?
Back to my question. Can we have white supremacists,The KKK or even little ol me dare ask that whites mobilize and make threats? Who do we turn to make sure our rights as American citizens aren't violated by a black person? What would we be called? Can we organize? What can we do?

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39lumper(281 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

remember duke lacrosse ? guilty until proven innocent.

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40Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

doub

"And just so you know, I'm not done -- you keep bringing up ridiculously weak arguments -- and I'll keep dismantling them one by one."

And what exactly are dismantling one by one??

"""Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you sound, using a school suspension as the basis for portraying this kid as a thug. I mean, honestly --- you are truly pathetic.""

Did I mention ONE thing about a school suspension?

"""DO you now feel even more justified in defending zimmerman chasing down an unarmed kid who was simply walking home. """"

Who is defending Zimmerman Skippy? Where you there that night? How do you know he was "simply" walking home??

"""And of the six witnesses one of them said the guy on the ground was the shooter, the other five said different and/or did not confirm this statement.""""

So this makes Zimmerman "guilty?"

"""The cops told him not to chase after the kid.""

Skippy, did the 911 operator actually tell him "Not to chase the kid", in those words?

"""The duties of official neighborhood watch programs is to OBSERVE AND REPORT -- that's it and that's all -- no guns, no knives, no confrontations.""""

And Skippy also in the Official Neighborhood watch program is the following: --We strongly suggest that you not confront an offender unless you are in immediate danger. --
So how do you know if Zimmerman was "not in Immediate danger""?? You don't because you weren't their. Understand?

So Skippy what exactly are you dismantling one by one?? The only I see is that you are taking everything the MEDIA FRENZY is giving you and running with it. So typical of Media nuts that hang on every word the media throws at you. Sad sad strange little man you are for not comprehending their are TWO sides to every story and you can't base on just one side of the story. Comprehend?

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41sam_carter(87 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Swingy and Lifey, i gotta tell ya, your rebuttals to doub are really lame.
Swing brought up the school suspension, Life. and that has nothing to do with the shooting. Just as zimmermans charge in 2007 of domestic violence. Do you want to include that into the argument? Thats proof that he has a temper and is violent. But you cant prove that the kid is violent. In fact, the opposite is true. Marihana smoking makes you mellow.
Specifically "Not to chase the kid". There are an infinite combination of words that could be put together to mean that. I think “Okay, we don't need you to do that” , means the same thing. The dispatcher said it in that manner to be polite? Or he knows this guy is a loose cannon?
Now, you keep bringing up that doub wasnt there. Well, neither were you, but you keep insisting that your version of events is true and not doubs. And since you werent there, can you prove that zimmermans wounds werent self inflicted. As in, "holy crap, what did i just do, i better make it look like HE was hitting me...."
I would offer this. If something wasnt fishy, the police chief would have stood his ground, explained, and not resigned. The city manager would have defended the chief. You dont hear the city manager giving the excuses you guys are giving. Even the governor rick scott is calling for an investigation.
In the next few days this will pan out and lets see what happens.

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42Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

sammieboy

"Well, neither were you, but you keep insisting that your version of events is true and not doubs."

Did I ever say my version of events are true?? Where have I said that? Maybe comprehend what you read sometimes because, maybe, just maybe, your comments would have some substance. Have I not been saying, There are 2 SIDES to every story?? smh at such stupidity.

"Specifically "Not to chase the kid". There are an infinite combination of words that could be put together to mean that. I think “Okay, we don't need you to do that” , means the same thing. The dispatcher said it in that manner to be polite? Or he knows this guy is a loose cannon?"

What you take as one thing, other people on this planet could take it a whole different way. Did that ever occur to you? Perfect example, you think I'm defending this guy and my saying I'm right in my accounts, but you twist it around and say I'm sticking up for this guy and what I say are what happened, well sammieboy you just threw a hole in your first comment about how people interpret different things.

"And since you werent there, can you prove that zimmermans wounds werent self inflicted. As in, "holy crap, what did i just do, i better make it look like HE was hitting me...."

And once again sammyboy, how can you prove it was self inflicted? Come on sammyboy your defense is so weak.

" would offer this. If something wasnt fishy, the police chief would have stood his ground, explained, and not resigned. The city manager would have defended the chief. You dont hear the city manager giving the excuses you guys are giving. Even the governor rick scott is calling for an investigation."

What EXCUSES am I giving? I'm not giving any EXCUSES, I'm just telling you there are 2 SIDES to every story, is that so hard to comprehend???? smh...

But I could say that this thing is ONLY blown out of proportion because of the media and what these Officials are doing are trying to defuse the situation, no more no less. Amazes me how you can be so brainwashed what the media is telling you.

And since no one else knows the answer, what exactly is a WHITE Hispanic, the media claims as Zimmermans race?

How could someone defend themselves when they don't have a chance because the "media frenzy" already crucified this guy without knowing all the facts? Is that really fair?

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43walter_sobchak(1894 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

After doing some very simple investigation (using Google), it is impossible to continue without listing some glaring FACTUAL errors in this editorial.
Mr. Zimmerman does not possess the weapon used in the shooting as the police have confiscated it as evidence. He does still have his conceal and carry permit.

The drug testing of Martin is standard for an autopsy in a questionable death.

To say that Martin did nothing wrong is questionable on its face since Zimmerman had physical injuries, obvious to police and treated by paramedics, that he indicated were inflicted by Martin and corroborated by at least one witness. Police arrived within two minutes of the 911 call.

The "real police officers" did not just give Zimmerman a pass. A prosecutor was called by police, informed of the facts, and she decided not to show up at the scene since the evidence supported a self-defense claim. Police then released Zimmerman.

The editor most certainly entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts. But, this editorial demeans good police officers and detectives with incorrect facts and innuendo.

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44GTX66(341 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Florida has a stand your ground law, that is why the Police bought it. Al Sharpton and the other clown ought to get real jobs. Something they know nothing about.Worry about the crime in Youngstown. Let Florida take care of Florida.

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45commoncitizen(961 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Thinkthentalk, And do your sons wear there pants have off their as*, so they can look like "wantabe's" ,also?

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46uptowngirl(110 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

If Martin did indeed beat the crap out of Zimmerman, there is bound to be some forensic evidence on Martin's clothing and skin. The prosecutor should have released a statement that forensic evidence shows that there was a confrontation between the two therefore self defense was plausible. Seeing that none of Zimmerman's clothing or nail scrapings were tested for DNA, there is certainly room for doubt. Now really if you were Stanford police or the county prosecutor and you had the evidence to put this to bed--would you remain silent? You have a circus going on in your community with Rev. Al there with angry mobs. There is no potential for any positive publicity in this case -- would you not use the evidence collected to refute this, if you had it? It is costing the community big $$$ to accomodate the media and the protestors and the city is silent. The city is silent because they do not have crap--they blew the investigation. How many other self-defense claims in a fatal shooting were investigated in Stanford? How were other self defense claims investigated--did the police take the shooters word for it? Any new evidence presented now after a month has passed, looks falsified. Admit that the police blew the investigation and offer a settlement before the civil suits are filed.
I know a few local communities where if Zimmerman were driving through in a Corvette, he would be stopped as a suspicious person. I really believe that Zimmerman, the cop wannabe was attempting to prove his macho valor to the community and it backfired.

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47WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Trayvon has been suspended from school no less than three times, once for excessive truancy. Another was for vandalism where he and his friends were writing "W.T.F." on lockers with a marker. School officials searched Trayvon on the event of the marker incident and found him in possession of a dozen items of ladies jewelry and a large flathead screwdriver. The items were confiscated and the information turned over to Police. Trayvon was not charged criminally (that we know of since juvenile records are sealed). Finally, Trayvon was suspended for having a plastic bag with the remnants of marijuana and drug paraphernalia in his bookbag. Some say these drugs were for Trayvon's personal use but messages on his facebook/twitter account suggest his friend/friends sought Trayvon out for marijuana- potentially making him a small time drug dealer as well.

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48WilliamSwinger(341 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

@doubled
@sam"y"_carter

Arguing against "self-defense" here is like arguing against the existence of the sun or gravity. With all the information available it is impossible to argue against "self-defense" without sounding like a moron. At this point all the details are readily available and any person that is arguing against Zimmerman is just an idiot or uninformed or both. Go to Google and search for photos of how Trayvon looked to Zimmerman that night, not when he was ten years old. Go see how Zimmerman looked to Trayvon that night, not a mugshot from five years ago. Go find Trayvon's facebook and twitter accounts and read them. Go find the many accounts of the initial Police report and the testimony offered by Zimmerman, the witness "John," the thirteen-year-old kid, Zimmerman's Black friend, etc. etc. etc. Go find the lies Trayvon's father told the media about why his kid was suspended (was in an unauthorized area of the school he said) and go see Trayvon's mother trying to cash in by trademarking phrases. And go read about what a thug Trayvon really was trying to be (drug dealing, violent with the bus driver, gang related, etc. etc.) Then come back and try to argue what an innocent angel Trayvon is and what a horrible man Zimmerman is. Then go find that George was going to the grocery store, not on "patrol." Then go listen to George screaming for help as he is in a desperate struggle. Go read how Trayvon jumped Zimmerman after sucker-punching him and knocking him to the ground. Then go read about Trayvon discovering Zimmerman had a firearm during the scuffle and trying to take it from him. Then go read about how George realized that the struggle would not end until one of the men was dead.

This is all to say GO READ AND DO RESEARCH FOR YOURSELVES and stop running your uniformed mouths off. You sound stupid. Go learn the truth instead of just watching MSNBC or CNN or whatever.

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49DAL(90 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Anymore this case has become ridiculous!!! He said, she said!!! What about the facts??? There has been so much supposely info now coming out about this and that??? First, Trayvon was the victim now he is the supposed attacker. Zimmerman, is now the victim and not the attacker!!! I will no longer believe anything that the media spits out on this case!!!! I will wait for the trial(I hope there will be one). As for peoples comments whether it be here or in another media outlet, I have never seen so much hatred and distain in my life!!! I thought with time, we moved on. As a white woman, I can't believe how much racism is still going on in our country, whether it be a race,life choice, religion or political views. People are Down Right Mean!!!!

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50gordy850(22 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

We will have to wait until the police check the whole story out. In my opinion, I think Al Sharpton and several others are too quick to get involved with the hate talk. I only wish they were just as quick to react when a cop gets killed or shot, where is their outrage then? They don't want to "get to the bottom of it" then, do they !

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51USMC0331(150 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

"Come on!!! A black guy killing a white kid? Who you kidding? He'd be caught in 24 hrs, tried and executed by now."

Really? Like in the cases of Agee and Toney?
Or in the case of Houser? Yes they have already been executed. Right? Right? And further more did anyone ever put a bounty on these POS's lives? No! But its ok for the "New Black Pathers" to do so!! I'm not sayin the shooter is innocent. They should have charged him with something until the investigation was done and thats at the very least. If this was done by a "white group" it would be unforgivable!!!!

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52Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

up

"""Now really if you were Stanford police or the county prosecutor and you had the evidence to put this to bed--would you remain silent? """

Have to get the facts first missy. And if they did and found out Zimmerman was right, what do you think the idiots Sharpton, Black Panters and the angry mob would do to Sanford, FL? I could only imagine....

"""You have a circus going on in your community with Rev. Al there with angry mobs. There is no potential for any positive publicity in this case -- would you not use the evidence collected to refute this, if you had it? """

And why is this stupid circus in Sanford, FL.?? Instead of being so full of hatred and such, why don't they do something productive and make aware of the violent black wanna be gangstas killing other black wanna be gangstas EVERYDAY. Now because a WHITE Hispanic (and still waiting for a answer to the meaning behind this description of a race) shot a black kid all the huge black racists protest and do whatever they do. To me they should use there energy on the violence of young black males. But anything to get in front of the MEDIA and brainwash the masses.

"""It is costing the community big $$$ to accomodate the media and the protestors and the city is silent. The city is silent because they do not have crap--they blew the investigation."""

Costing the community big $$$ wow you are a naive one. The city is making HUGE money on this, from hotel rooms to restaurants,etc...who do you think is making the big $$$$. Why should they blow a good thing they have going? If anything Sanford, Fl should keep this going as long as possible. Good money making event just like the mom trying to cash in on her son. It seems not about the incident but more about the cameras the media and $$$$$. Comprehend?

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53Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

dal

""I will no longer believe anything that the media spits out on this case!!!!"""

And you shouldn't, but the idiots on here that believe EVERY word the media puts out are the facts, are the ones that need to comprehend that. People can't really be that stupid.

"""As a white woman, I can't believe how much racism is still going on in our country, whether it be a race,life choice, religion or political views. People are Down Right Mean!!!!""

And I hope you mean by BOTH races.

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54Ceaman(54 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Sixty years ago this case would never have made the headlines, it would have been called Justice without a trial because we all knew what blacks were we lynching quite a few. We have moved on and now we are incensed about this killing. Lets wait until Media Circus moves on to sensationalize the next story and we just may get the truth even though it may not be palatable.

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55peggygurney(392 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I am from Florida. This is not the first time the Sanford police dept has been in the spotlight for questionable work, and probably won't be the last.
They don't have the best police force, and this incident does not surprise me at all.

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56fattynskinny(195 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

wah, wah, wah, poor little black boy, in the wrong place at the wrong time....typical thug theme

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57woolyd(579 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Anybody see the video footage of Zimmerman being led into the police station? Wheres the broken nose and facial injuries?

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58ANTIYOUNGSTOWN(236 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Getting involved in this type of a discussion is time wasting. No one who has posted a comment was there, therefore no one can make a sound argument. But what I can post is what I believe to be an accurate statement. As a teenager I dressed or acted in a way that people could have perceived me to be a "thug" even though I wasn`t. As I matured I realized that the way I portrayed myself was important to my success in life. Now people can argue back and forth who was in the wrong in this situation, that`s not for me to judge, and I am not taking sides by making the next statement but it seems to me if you look the part of being a possible threat, suspicious, or a dangerous person, you have to realize that you may be perceived as being a threatening, suspicious, or a dangerous person.

Why put yourself at risk?

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59Becky_Roberts(4 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

What a sad story.

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60BabaGhanoush(106 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Why are they continuing to publish a photograph of Martin when he was 12 years old or so? When are they going to publish the actual picture of him with a gold grille and gang signs from his twitter page, eh?
And the nom de plume he was going by.
Why was he suspended for ten days?
Anyone want to tell me what you have to do to get ten days?
Why was he carrying women's jewelry and a screwdriver?
As far as the video tape is concerned, it now appears that is was doctored to hide the injury on the back of his head.
BTW for those claiming there was no police report, here it is:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigatio...

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