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DOWNTOWN REBOUND || Signs of new life in Youngstown



Published: Sun, June 17, 2012 @ 12:01 a.m.

By DAVID SKOLNICK | skolnick@vindy.com

YOUNGSTOWN

The city’s downtown will see several changes in the coming months as it continues

to attract new businesses to an area that largely was deserted for years.

Work should be done in a month at Erie Terminal Place, a 65-bed apartment complex at 112 W. Commerce St., said Dominic Marchionda, the building’s owner. Next on his list is to start work before the end of the year on developing the vacant Wick Building at

34 W. Federal St. into an apartment building.

Also, the Lemon Grove, a downtown bar and restaurant, is relocating two doors east of its current location to the larger 122 W. Federal St., the former Rosetta Stone Cafe and Lounge, and is

expected to open in mid-July.

The Downtown Circle Convenience & Deli at

116 W. Federal St., in business for 10 months, plans to open a second location, to be called University Circle, at the corner of Elm Street and Madison Avenue by late August.

Avalon Gardens Pizzeria plans to open at 17 W. Federal St. in August, and Eastern Gateway Community College will offer classes at the Plaza Parking Deck building at 16 N. Champion St., also in August. Youngstown Nation, a gift shop that will sell Youngstown-themed items, is set to open at the Federal Building, 25 E. Boardman St., in a few weeks.

And last month, new owners reopened End of the Tunnel in the lower level of the City Centre One Building, 100 E. Federal St.

Still, not everything is rosy: Buffalo Wild Wings announced Friday that June 22 will be last day for the Federal Plaza location.

The decision to close the downtown location was not based on a lack of business; the site no longer met the requirement to remain a Buffalo Wild Wings franchise, said Doug Esenwein, regional manager for Buffalo Wild Wings in the Youngstown market.

“We had a lot of success at this location,” he said.

A new restaurant is expected to take over the site shortly after the Buffalo Wild Wings closing, Esenwein said.

“I expect them to make their own announcement within the next few days or if not the next couple of weeks,” he said. “We’re happy the place isn’t going to be sitting empty.”

‘IT’S COMING TOGETHER’

So why Youngstown?

“I have a feeling that Youngstown will be strong again,” said Al Adi, Downtown Circle’s owner. “Compare downtown to a few years ago. It’s been a great improvement with many investors. It’s coming together.”

Jacob Harver, owner of the Lemon Grove, said downtown “has so many unique and wonderful places that complement each other. There’s the vibrancy of the businesses plus new residential housing. Downtown will definitely continue to grow.”

Mike Patrick, who owns several bars in the area and is co-owner of End of the Tunnel, said, “Our city is starting to come back like the old days. It’s making a comeback. There’s a buzz about downtown. There are a lot of great, fun restaurants and businesses and [Eastern Gateway is] moving in.”

If you were looking for a downtown restaurant in 2004, you had perhaps a half-dozen choices.

During that year’s presidential race, John Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee, had a downtown rally, pointing to the many vacant buildings on West Federal Street when talking about the area’s economic decline.

Taking down the pedestrian plaza walkway that cut off vehicular traffic between East and West Federal streets in late 2004 and the opening of the convocation center, now known as the Covelli Centre, in late 2005 were key turning points in the revitalization of downtown, Mayor Charles Sammarone said.

“Who’s going to travel on a dead-end street?” he said of Federal. “People want to locate businesses on a street with traffic. Also, the Covelli Centre has helped by bringing people from the suburbs and other cities downtown. It draws more people to downtown. We need to keep building on this.”

parking

The downtown growth has led to one problem — parking.

“Twenty years ago, there was no problem with parking because there was no one coming downtown,” Sammarone said. “When you have people, you have a parking problem. It’s good and it’s bad. People hate to walk. I’m one of them. People like to park in front of where they want to go. That’s an issue, but it’s good because it means downtown is doing well.”

Because downtown workers, particularly those at the VXI Global Solutions call center in the city-owned 20 Federal Place, were parking on West Federal Street between Wick Avenue and Phelps Street, some business owners in that area complained their customers didn’t have nearby places to park.

The city took care of that problem by installing about 20 paid parking meters there. As a side benefit, the city is making about $200 daily on weekdays with the meters, Sammarone said.

“It’s nice to make money, but the intent was to create a way to get people to that area for short periods of time,” he said.

apartments

Along with the restaurants and stores, downtown also is seeing a resurgence in those wanting to live there.

First, it was the Realty Tower Apartments at 47 Central Federal St. All but one of the building’s 23 units are currently rented, and Joe Maxx, a 1,200-square-foot coffee shop on its ground floor, is “doing great,” said Anita Atheneos, property manager for Park South Development Co. LLC, which manages the building.

The 14 apartments at the Federal Building are occupied. The building also is home to the V2 Wine Bar Trattoria, a restaurant that opened on the first floor in October.

Next to open is Erie Terminal Place in about a month.

The building will have 65 beds in 40 apartments with 15 tenants already signed up to live there, said Marchionda, whose company spent about $9 million to turn the vacant structure into housing for Youngstown State University graduate students and upperclassmen as well as young professionals.

Marchionda’s company built and opened the $8 million, 114-unit Flats at Wick student-housing complex near YSU in 2010.

“You’re seeing a tremendous amount of activity in downtown Youngstown,” he said. “It will continue to get better. I truly believe we’re going in the right direction.”

That’s why Marchionda said his next project is rehabilitating the Wick Building.

He doesn’t own the building, but as part of the deal to buy the Erie Terminal, Marchionda signed a lease with an option to buy the Wick. He expects to finalize the purchase shortly.

“We’ve received inquiries from young families and people of all ages about downtown housing,” he said. “There is demand, and we plan to start work at the end of the year to turn Wick into an apartment building.”

Marchionda also owns the Legal Arts Building at 101 Market St., which his company purchased in March for $175,000.

He said the building could be turned into a hotel, possibly with office space.

“Based on the current trends, we believe there’s a strong need for a hotel [downtown], and we want to build one,” Marchionda said. “We’re interested in looking at other [downtown] buildings for sale. There’s definitely a need for a hotel. I have to decide if it will be from scratch or [if we’ll] refurbish an existing building, which is my preference.”

Meanwhile, the Stambaugh Building at 44 E. Federal St., one of downtown’s largest buildings, has been vacant for years. There was talk in 2011 of renovating Stambaugh into a hotel with apartments and retail businesses. But there’s been no movement.

Also, in March, PNC Bank left the PNC Bank Building, on the corner of Wick Avenue and Commerce Street, for City Centre One.

PNC occupied about 70,000 square feet of the 130,000-square-foot building. That space at the building, across the street from Stambaugh, remains vacant.

“We’re showing it to a lot of people and [we’re] working with a few potential” tenants, said Atheneos, whose company manages the building. PNC “had three and a half floors. My main concern is to fill the main floor” of 25,000 square feet.


Comments

1southsidedave(4841 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

I don't know who would want to live downtown unless they are connected with YSU...furthermore Youngstown is not a major city and cannot justify high rents!

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2USMC0331(150 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Every single apartment in realty tower is rented. Every single apartment in the federal building is rented. There are people still on waiting lists to get into both. The rent in realty is $1200 starting out and in the federal building its a little over $900. Downtown is making it! Don't hate!

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3WarrenRicheyKid(167 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

It certainly makes sense to live downtown if you work there. That's the dream of many, to live where you earn a paycheck. A supermarket, dry cleaner, and a pharmacy would all make sense now that downtown is populated. As for federal help for these projects, why not? Youngstown-produced steel helped win two world wars!

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4lee(544 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Make sure you tell the renters not to walk outside after dark.

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5kensgirl(643 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

I'd love to see downtown grow. It'll never be the same as in the days of McKelveys and Strouss but at least people are making the effort. The only business I wouldn't put there is a pharmacy. I'd give it two days before being robbed.

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6ksem(23 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Thank you Dave and the Vindicator for writing this story and continuing to highlight the forward movement in downtown, however, I feel readers who are not fully acquainted with downtown offerings still have a skewed vision, further leading to doubts of the city’s rebound.

What this article fails to revisit is the aspect that the Covelli Centre, while a great asset, is not the only attraction bringing new visitors/demographics into downtown. OH WOW! welcomed more than 34,000 visitors in just one year. Those are visitors not only from the Valley, but Mercer, Lawrence and Beaver counties in PA and also tapping into Stark, Portage and Ashtabula in OH. The article should also remind readers that the Mahoning Valley History Center will be opening its doors in the fall and that we have the Butler, the Arms Museum, the McDonough, the Melnick, Center of Industry and Labor, Powers, Stambaugh, the Oakland, the Victorian Players, YSU Performing Arts, SMARTS, Public Library of Youngstown and Mahoning Valley …. Oh yeah and don’t forget the stunning natural get-a-way we have in Mill Creek MetroParks one mile from central square.

The fact that we have increased options in terms of dining is fantastic. The growth of downtown living options is tremendous and will encourage new businesses to crop up, as well. But we can’t forget that for a town of our size, Youngstown offers a wealth of cultural and educational sites for all ages. Furthermore, it’s a combination of growth that is making downtown a more appealing place to LIVE and visit, and though we have a long way to go, slowly, but surely we will get there.

One last note – it is extremely unnerving to read the Mayor’s comments. Youngstown is a small downtown, further a very WALKABLE downtown. To say that people want to park in front of where they intend to go is likely not incorrect, however, the city should be the first to tell them to “get over it.” It takes a whole five minutes to walk from one end of the central business district to the other. If the city/businesses/organizations/and the CVB marketed all the available parking downtown and the fact that everything is maybe two to three blocks away this would be a non-issue. Until we can truly show that more parking is necessary, spare us the ugly surface lots and cry baby attitude that you might have to walk a few blocks. Maybe a walk will do you good and allow you to appreciate something new or old downtown. Let me know next time you go to Cleveland, Pittsburgh, or even Akron or Canton and if you pay less to park than you do in the Yo and walk less than you do in the Yo. Good luck.

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7ksem(23 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Thank you Dave and the Vindicator for writing this story and continuing to highlight the forward movement in downtown, however, I feel readers who are not fully acquainted with downtown offerings still have a skewed vision, further leading to doubts of the city’s rebound.

What this article fails to revisit is the aspect that the Covelli Centre, while a great asset, is not the only attraction bringing new visitors/demographics into downtown. OH WOW! welcomed more than 34,000 visitors in just one year. Those are visitors not only from the Valley, but Mercer, Lawrence and Beaver counties in PA and also tapping into Stark, Portage and Ashtabula in OH. The article should also remind readers that the Mahoning Valley History Center will be opening its doors in the fall and that we have the Butler, the Arms Museum, the McDonough, the Melnick, Center of Industry and Labor, Powers, Stambaugh, the Oakland, the Victorian Players, YSU Performing Arts, SMARTS, Public Library of Youngstown and Mahoning Valley …. Oh yeah and don’t forget the stunning natural get-a-way we have in Mill Creek MetroParks one mile from central square.

The fact that we have increased options in terms of dining is fantastic. The growth of downtown living options is tremendous and will encourage new businesses to crop up, as well. But we can’t forget that for a town of our size, Youngstown offers a wealth of cultural and educational sites for all ages. Furthermore, it’s a combination of growth that is making downtown a more appealing place to LIVE and visit, and though we have a long way to go, slowly, but surely we will get there.

One last note – it is extremely unnerving to read the Mayor’s comments. Youngstown is a small downtown, further a very WALKABLE downtown. To say that people want to park in front of where they intend to go is likely not incorrect, however, the city should be the first to tell them to “get over it.” It takes a whole five minutes to walk from one end of the central business district to the other. If the city/businesses/organizations/and the CVB marketed all the available parking downtown and the fact that everything is maybe two to three blocks away this would be a non-issue. Until we can truly show that more parking is necessary, spare us the ugly surface lots and cry baby attitude that you might have to walk a few blocks. Maybe a walk will do you good and allow you to appreciate something new or old downtown. Let me know next time you go to Cleveland, Pittsburgh, or even Akron and Canton and if you pay less to park than you do in the Yo and walk less than you do in the Yo. Good luck.

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8valleypolitics(88 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

The Mayor and Council need to lower or eliminate the 2.75% income tax for downtown workers. When that happens watch the place thrive again. Until then downtown will struggle to survive and flourish.

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9JJ(28 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

It just takes one start a movement and now there's momentum. It's always easier to be the cynic and criticize than to roll you sleeves up and change a culture. Fascinating that anyone would find something negative to say about anyone that wants to better Youngstown, Ohio!

Good to see someone that has the chutzpah to take on this development project!

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10ytownsteelman(631 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Why the need to tear down what these investors are trying to build up? Obviously people think there is money to be made here in restaurants and apartments and have responded by renovating buildings. If it falls flat then these investors will take a loss. None of the Vindy commenters will suffer any financial loss, so stow your busybody attitudes and mind your own business.

No matter what anyone does downtown it will not satisfy these detractors, who only gain self esteem through failure. These people are the leftovers of the brain drain and haven't gotten the message yet that they are no longer welcome in the new Youngstown, and that they need to move along.

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11anothermike(213 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Nice that these apartments are rented as soon as they are completed, I just wonder why no food store(s) not opening up to make it more convenient. (Not a "convienient" store, of course, but a Sparkle, Giant Eagle, or IGA). Haven't heard of any plans for that which would make sense to potential new tenants......just wondering...

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12USMC0331(150 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Bottom Dollar Mahoning at Meridian. IGA and Save-a-Lot 422 by the flea market. All of these within 5 min driving time. Some places in the area it takes longer to get to a grocery store. I don't understand for the life of me why people can't just say, "good for the city and investors, i hope it works out". Oh that's right because this is the land of negativity and we can't have something good! Everyone always wants to point out the bad and never the good. Just like during the war. You never heard a story about a service member jumping on a grenade to save his fellow men. Nope! But, lets report that one idiot who killed a civilian on purpose cause hes crazy! Love the direction this country is going in!

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13north_side_girl(213 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

i've had mixed opinions about the renaissance: most of it is leaps and bounds in the right direction, some of it is a little idealistic and rose-colored glasses-type stuff. if 37 people can afford to live in Realty Tower and the Federal building, then awesome. i could never afford to. myself and many others can only afford to hit up the great new eateries and entertainment every now and then. i wish there were enough well-paying jobs here for college grads so that even a night out or a downtown apartment weren't pipe dreams. but perhaps it will be cyclical ... restaurants open, people come downtown, businesses relocate, jobs are created. i'd really love to stay here. all this stuff is great, but the city needs better jobs, more cops, and better schools to complete a true renaissance. and a Sheetz downtown. RIP Gyspy Lane Sparkle.

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14Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

We have two for corporate housing and all our guest love them
As someone said STOP THE HATE

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15anothermike(213 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Mahoning at Meridian and IGA by the flea market (hope you're not referring to the East Side)?? You forgot to mention a Dillards at the Eastwood or Southern Park Malls, or Giant Eagle on Rt 224. It is up Market St........some people just don't get it.........

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16steeler560(1 comment)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

As a native of Youngstown it thrills me to see the downtown revitalizing. I've lived all over the country and realize without a viable downtown no metropolitan area can sustain, let alone grow.

The fact is that downtowns all across the country are experiencing a rebirth...don't kid yourselves into thinking that this growth is limited to big cities only. Need proof...look no further to Akron, Dayton and Toledo.

YSU is at the epicenter and the university is an asset to the community. As the university continues to evolve so will the city. People from outside the Youngstown area realize that YSU is a great school.

These projects and the developers should be applauded for their willingness to invest in the community, not doubted or criticized! Based on a few of the comments it's clear that some of the "rust belt" mentality still lingers. It's a shame because it's these sort of backwards thinking people that have kept the city from rebounding quicker.

I am confident that these revitalization projects will succeed...a lot of careful planning by highly successful local business minds went into it. Some people are ignorant enough to believe that investors will blindly spend millions on projects without doing preliminary planning.

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17ForkNspoon(2 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

To the doubters: criticize investment that took advantage of federal and/or state money? Nice try. But it seems a bit ludicrous to sit back and watch cities like Pittsburgh and Milwaukee take advantage of the same programs and continue to let Youngstown ROT from the inside out. GET A GRIP. Do yourselves a favor, google PATH DEPENDENCY. Then lock yourself in a library, preferably one DOWNTOWN, and read it until you realize how pitiful you sound.

We have all sat and watched our city ROT for 30 years. It's only up to us to change that ignorant and complacent path. If you want to throw silly jabs about renters or government incentives, go do it in your cookie cutter McMansion and keep it to yourself. If you want to take part in remaking this town NOT into what it was, but into what it can be, then by all means hop on board. But if you want to sit and muster up some simple criticism that has minimal warrant and a great deal of ignorance, save it for yourself.

This town will come back, and it'll be due to people who are sick of making excuses for themselves and for the "way things are".

Yes, We are the heart of the rust belt and it's about time we embrace it and still have any of these buildings around. There's a MOUNTAIN to be climbed. So start climbing and lets get the work done.

Promote investment. Promote your city. Promote the hard work taking place. Or get out!

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18ForkNspoon(2 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Oh ya- and scared to walk outside at night for renters? Ask a renter who is scared. The downtown is just as safe if not safer than most parts of boardman or austintown. Wake up! Quit taking the negatives on channel 27 six o'clock news and generalizing it for the entire condition of our City.

Also, whoever it was that hated on Seinfeld, you must be allergic to fun! If you don't want that lifestyle and you'd rather enjoy your cul de sac and spend your Saturday's doing house work and yard work, and driving to every destination you desire---by all means, ENJOY. But don't diss alternative preferences just because your preference has been a trend dominated by automobile and gasoline czars and lobbyists.

Wake up!!!!!!!!!

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19USMC0331(150 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

anothermike

Yes I am referring to the east side. That part is actually nice. Once the super walmart is done in Boardman that'll be close too.

ForkNspoon

Bravo!!! You put it perfect! Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself!!!

jeratboy

I have friends who live in both and the last time i checked they were all full. As far as living downtown, hipsters don't have that kinda money. LOL It is like living in a major city without the major city pricing. If i were single with no kids I'd be there in a heartbeat!

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20CongressWatcher(180 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

Ksem,

I appreciate your passion for the redevelopment for the downtown. I also appreciate the amenities that you listed. But I think you are wrong on your views on the parking situation. Since you most likely live and work downtown you do not notice the parking problem. You said, the city should tell the people who want to park close to where they go to "get over it". They don't have to tell many like myself to get over it. I am over it. I just drive right past when there is no parking. Most likely onto a destination in the suburbs where there is parking. Your statements seem to state that people can tell other people what to like and how they should live their lives. In the business of entertainment, things don't work that way. People go where they are comfortable and it is convenient. After all, it is their time off. Life and family gatherings get more complicated when children and senior citizens are involved. It is often inconvenient or expensive planning events that include guests of all ages in a place where parking is not in the infrastructure. I just say these things because I know you care about the city and want to see the downtown resurgence continue.

Also, JimFrank is completely correct on lowering the income tax. It is ridiculously high and hinders true resurgence.

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21city_resident(513 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

MF, I don't believe there are any such restrictions with historic tax credits. What other government money have these places received? (I don't remember, but I'm not even sure the Federal Building renovations got that.)

As far as parking, many of those who feel they need to park within spitting distance of the entrance to their destination aren't likely to visit downtown anyway. So, why should we continue to bend over backwards to cater to them?

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22ksem(23 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

“I am over it. I just drive right past when there is no parking. Most likely onto a destination in the suburbs where there is parking.”

This is my point …. we are talking about a CITY, not the suburbs. If we put parking in front of every business, downtown wouldn’t be much of a downtown.

The ironic thing about the parking complaint is that it generally comes from those who live in the suburbs. The same people who will park football field lengths away from the entrance to Target, the movie theater or the mall, but can’t park a block from V2.

We will need more parking in the near future, with growth comes certain needs. But those of us who enjoy downtown because it is a downtown, just want to see smart planning, not simple fixes to more complex problems. The “we can tear down this building and make it a surface lot” type of mentality is not suitable moving forward.

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23city_resident(513 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

If you're going to quote someone, please provide a link, thanks. For all I know, Mr. Marchionda is talking about the same historic tax credits.

Yes, Frangos got a low interest loan from the city for the development of the Realty Building. (you seem to talk a lot about Frangos and the Realty Building) But what about all of the other projects mentioned in this article?

And, well said (both posts) ksem!

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24Bigben(1996 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

To those who complain about parking in a city realize a city is not a suburb. There are obvious trade offs. They are two different animals.

If cities like Youngstown's core, do continue to improve then more and more folks will want to live there. Downtown is not the southside as far as crime is concerned.

Lets face it if the city in general offered improvements in job growth, lowering crime and improved the schools people wouldn't have left . City living for many isn't the culprit it is these other areas.

At one time unless you were a farmer you really didn't need to live outside the city limits. The post war period changed all this. Affordable automobiles , cheap gas and the Utopian lifestyle of the suburbs were very strongly encouraged.

I think you will see urban living will be encouraged into the future the way the suburbs were in the past.

As for removing city income tax helping to grow the city-it would be one less source of local income. Another question is should corporations have tax abatement s ?

Can cities have a strong sense of autonomy if they are continually funded from elsewhere? The elsewhere can then call the shots.Perhaps this is the way it must be now (tax abatement s) because the wealthy want it this way.That is fine . But again there are trade offs.

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25captaincheese(43 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

I think the the housing market is permanently hosed and not too many people will be able to purchase homes in the future. I also believe that all major and minor cities have a shot to gains citizens. This can ONLY happen if crime is severely curtailed and kept in check the rest will deal with itself.
gentrification has an awesome way of pushing out the undesirable element in a neighborhood.

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26anothermike(213 comments)posted 2 years, 6 months ago

All employed "city" residents ( Youngstown, Warren, Niles, Girard, Cleveland, wherever) pay city income tax....not an issue for new and better housing anywhere..........

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27HSG(139 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

It is great to see the Y rebounding. I know of people who live there and work in Boardman. The commute time is all of 6 minutes via 680. Also, can the ugliest housing enclave in Ohio, the one on Mahoning ave., down from the Calvin Center please be razed. Thank you!

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28city_resident(513 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

"Also, can the ugliest housing enclave in Ohio, the one on Mahoning ave., down from the Calvin Center please be razed."

What housing enclave??? Do you mean the few little houses remaining on Wells Ct?

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29ytownredux(117 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I really enjoy all the positive posts on here. I do hope however that the downtown promoters will keep realistic and not utopian ideals in mind as the city grows. Parking CAN be a problem and needs to be addressed soon in order to keep growing downtown.

with 65 beds opening in a month and a potential of 65 more cars (not probable but possible,) and then the wick with however many tenants that will provide, good preferable covered parking will be needed. There was rumor control at one time that they would rebuild the parking structure they tore down at wick and commerce, or the lot on commerce across from the voinovich building and powers would work.

I am also full in favor of a parking lot going where the soon to be demolished paramount theater is, much to the "downtownies" dismay. Go to downtown Portland, Oregon, there are some great asphalt parking lots downtown that are created into a fantastic weekend farmers/crafters market each week during spring/summer/fall, that would be great in downtown Youngstown.

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30pjohn(25 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I agree with ksem. Youngstown is very walkable which is great thing for the city and it really helps out. Mayor Chuck is just fat and lazy so he wants to drive his Cadillac in the the lobby of a building so he doesn't have to walk more than 50 yards.

They should get rid of the income tax definitely. I don't think we need another parking garage though. The Covelli center has more than enough parking for everyone. It's a little more than a half mile from the Covelli centre parking lot to the Butler. Be healthy and walk. It's not that bad. I promise.

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31CongressWatcher(180 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I don't wish to discourage those who like the city from living in the city and utilizing downtown. I just don't like the lack of parking, and would not want to give up another percent of my income each year just to work in the city. For me personally, it just does not offer enough convenience or amenities to make this sacrifice. Also, all the crime going on in the city just plain scares me, thank you very much. All in all, the downtown is looking much better than it used to be and I hope many people find a way to enjoy it and inhabit it.

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32southsidedave(4841 comments)posted 2 years, 3 months ago

The people posting positive comments here apparently have not lived or worked in downtown...

I have done both and can tell you that unless you are a student, the viability of living downtown on a long-term basis is bleak at best.

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