Make all Delphi retirees equal

Why do we need a czar?? Isn't there a representative named Tim Ryan who is capable of carrying that message?

It is not right this group was treated this way. Right this wrong and give them what is due them.

NOW is the time for President Obama to right this wrong.

Fand E Don't hold your breathe for Obama to correct this . Because if he hasn't by now, he won't be doing it any time soon. When you have people like Timmy Ryan representing you , you my as well have nobody representing .

The "problem" is simple: The salaried employees have no contract agreement with the company. Most of them chose to Not be represented by the union, but now these same anti-union, anti-labor folks are crying for some assistance since they feel they are getting short changed. You can bet your bottom dollar that if it was the other way around, they would tell the unions where to get off. They rode the gravy train for decades and now because they have to take it in a notch like the rest of us, they think they should receive some special treatment. Sorry folks, contribute to your health care and take your belts in like the rest of us..........

Lets put some perspective on health care for Delphi salary retirees. They qualified for Voluntary Employee Benefit Associations (VEBA) following the approval of the bankruptcy court judge. The VEBA then offered health care plans eligible for the Health Coverage Tax Credit (HCTC)—(a federal tax credit first created at 65% in 2003 to help offset the cost of monthly health care insurance premiums for Delphi retirees age 55 to 64).

Congress increased the HCTC tax credit for eligible participants from 65% to 80%. Delphi Salaried Retirees have the credit automatically paid every month by the IRS to the VEBA health insurance plan. Qualified retirees’ pay the remaining 20% cost of the health insurance.

Check your own cost for health care as a retiree under age 65 vs what Delphi is paying and I believe you may agree they were not treated badly. Certainly mutes this argument and saved monthly health care suplements pension.

Anothermike, yea the Delphi Salaried rec'd special treatment alright, thanks to a corrupt decision made when you bring poltics into the mix. And GM should be ashamed of themselves. There wouldn't even be a plant standing in the country if it wasnt' for engineers. And don't we all want our children to aspire to such careers? You bring your personal prejudice to this story. WELL SAID VINDY. For goodness sake, return to these people what they earned. Period. It will help us all. For a Democratic stronghold with the hightest povety rate in the NATION, this is a No Brainer.

There is a lot of misinformation floating around here. First, the issue is not contracts or no contracts - the GAO report dispelled that argument months ago. New GM was under NO OBLIGATION per the bankruptcy court to follow the old contracts. We contend that it was the US Treasury working with the people they appointed to run New GM who purposely chose winners and losers based on their perceived politics. That is illegal in America as it should be everywhere. They also used the PBGC to make the pension fund appear to be in much worse condition than it really was just so they could terminate it quickly. Ever wonder why they haven't disclosed how they calculated the plan liabilities? There is a good reason for it... Furthermore many or even most of the skilled tradesmen, the most comparable to the engineers, were paid more because of overtime, they also had better health care insurance, COLA and none of the long term responsibility. So it wasn't the pay that made the difference either. Many of the salaried folks were customer service reps, cost estimators, secretaries, etc who didn't earn nearly as much as their hourly counterparts. BTW the difference in pensions is nearly zero, so it isn't that either. What it was that made the difference was the perception that the salaried folks were too weak and unorganized to fight back at the mistreatment they have had to endure at the plan that was either coerced or approved or both by Obama Administration. We have been fighting for 3 years and have support from Bob King (UAW President) as well as AFL-CIO, Dem Parties in Ohio and Michigan and dozens of senators and congressmen. What happened to us could happen to anybody unless we get this precedent reversed. The concept of our government making decisions about citizens based on their perceived "commercial necessity" is too frightening to think about! Consider that thought applied to Social Security, Medicare, the US Military or anything else the government does. You all better hope we get this fixed! Not only is it the right thing to do, but the consequences of failing to do so will harm us and our children for generations to come. We certainly don't begrudge our friends and neighbors who were represented by a powerful union for getting the pensions they earned. We earned ours too and if our government is going to step into a private industry bankruptcy and use our tax dollars to resolve it, then they are required by The Constitution to treat all the citizen groups in a like manner. The first amendment right of association includes the right to Not associate. Our government isn't allowed to treat us any differently because of which club or group we belong to, or not belong to. The meeting with Mr. Williams was good, but it is only actions that will be meaningful. Words mean nothing at all. There are 1500 jobs in the Mahoning Valley alone that are riding on those actions.

BruceG -- Well said !

CompMan stated:

"Lets put some perspective on health care for Delphi salary retirees. They qualified for Voluntary Employee Benefit Associations (VEBA) following the approval of the bankruptcy court judge."

Did you know that Delphi dumped 100% of our health and life insurance (leaving us with NOTHING) and it was only thru our own efforts and an arduous battle that we convinced Judge Drain to allow us to set up our own VEBA? And did you know that we have IUE and USW retirees participating in our VEBA at our invitation (it was to our mutual benefit to do so)? And did you know that the DSRA lobbied heavily for an increase in the HCTC to 72.5% -- which benefits tens of thousands of UNION and non-union retirees and laid off workers ACROSS AMERICA? And did you know that ours was the FIRST HCTC-Qualified VEBA in the U.S.? And everyone should understand that without this VEBA and the HCTC, thousands in our communities would suffer severe financial and emotional hardship? We are ALL in this together!

VOTERS SHOULD WATCH THIS ISSUE CLOSELY AS IT WILL INFLUENCE THE OUTCOMES OF LOCAL AND NATIONAL ELECTIONS !!

The birth of the UAW was a good thing for Midwest creating safer working conditions and the like. However fast forward 50 years or so and the abuses and demands got out of control ( jobs bank? c'mon!) And now that we have an administration that owes the unions, they ,by proxy, have control over who will be winners and who will be losers. Take the Delphi retiree situation. In the GM bankruptcy the pensions of both union and non-union retirees went to the PBGC. The salaried retirees had their pensions cut by 30-70% and lost all health and life insurance (prior to VEBA.) The union retirees, however received a "top-up" to 100% from taxpayer $ funneled through GM. The same amount of money could have brought both groups to 93%. The unions, GM and the administration were all aware of, and complicit in this action. The union contracts did not have to be met in the bankruptcy. The unions are way too powerful when they can "strong-arm" a situation like this and then look the other way while hard-working, middle-class retirees they worked side by side with for decades are "thrown under the bus." The power the unions have over politicians who receive their backing prevents the very people who could help to rectify this grave injustice from speaking out. That ,and the fact that there is no defense for what happened. So this small group tries to fight the administration in court and the administration throws every legal maneuver and stall tactic in their path. I guess hoping the retirees will all die before this case goes anywhere. This debacle would not have happened without the strength of the "choke-hold" the unions have on Washington. Think about it if you have a non-union pension, GM salaried people, how'd you like the recent announcement about white-collar pensions? Watch out you might be next! Use you voice in the voting booth to stop this!

What about the unequal treatment between Delphi Salaried retirees and GM Salaried retirees? Both companies were bankrupt yet one group lost health care and had its pension turned over to the PBGC while the latter group did not.

The Delphi salaried retirees were just collateral damage to the pro-union agenda of the administration. GM is now Government Motors and they are already putting things in place to do the same things to the GM white-collar workers and retirees. If you are GM salaried, you are next in line, join our fight now before it's too late. If this is allowed to stand, it will set an intractable precedent. We all have to stop this choke-hold the unions have on Washington by voting anyone backed by a union out of office! They are only puppets to the unions once they accept the cash. Funny how these same groups are the ones who want all corporate cash out of politics! You can use your voice by voting, and getting the true story of the Delphi salaried retirees out there. True economic justice does not see whether a victim has a union card or not, and isn't economic justice what the left cries for? They are all a bunch of hypocrites whose demands for fairness, equality and justice only apply to union people.

First off, let me make you ALL AWARE that IT WASN'T JUST THE SALERIED workers that got shafted. It belonged to one of the "splinter" unions that had contracts with GM/DELPHI !!!! Because those "splinter" unions were "small" in numbers and "no longer" represented the "new" GM...they were thrown under the bus! As a former member of one of those "splinter" unions that worked my "ass" off to keep the machines running so the "product" we produced went out the door to meet schedules, it didn't matter. GM/Delphi/PBGC/ US GOVERNMENT all orchestrated a quick bankruptcy and left many (salaried as well as "splinter" unions) in the DUST!. How would you feel if your pension got reduced 70% like mine??? Our union gave up increases for promised pensions! Our own government allows corporations to "shed" their obligations by declaring bankruptcy. Wake up people! Get your facts straight!

I personally did NOT vote for Obama. He was voted in by public favoritism surely not for his experience in government (U.S. Senator for less than 1400 days). DSRA members were asked to contact the President as a last chance for him to correct the wrong his administration has done. Below is my letter…
Mr. President:
For three years now the 20,000 harmed Delphi Salaried retirees, their families, and their communities have endured the financial burdens caused by the unjust treatment of our pension by your administration, the PBGC, General Motors and Delphi.
We, the Delphi Salaried Retirees, had ALL of our health insurance and ALL of our life insurance taken away. It is well documented that we, GM-Delphi Salaried Retirees, have lost much more in terms of pension and benefits than any other auto retiree group. Currently, the monthly cost for health care for my husband and I, is $200.00 more than my monthly pension. We are barely holding on to our health care thanks to the HCTC, but due to the financial burden my reduced pension has caused, we were forced to terminate our life insurance two years ago.
Many of us, who were Obama voters, are now having a change of heart as a result of losing 30-70% of our earned pensions. Ohio AFL-CIO Union and other Union leaders from New York, Michigan, Indiana have written letters in full support of the DSRA request for "Fair and Equitable Treatment". The State of Ohio Resolution asked for the President, Dept of the Treasury, Auto Task Force, GM, and Delphi to treat all of the GM/Delphi retirees fairly and equitably and provide for the full earned pensions and other post employment benefits in the same manner for all groups. These are Unions coming out in strong support of the Delphi Salaried Retirees. The message should be clear from the multitude of support our request has received, that those "currently" in authority, that is you Mr. President, need to fix the error that was made during the rush to save GM.
March 2012 will be three years that the DSRA has been fighting to regain our pensions. We will never, never stop until we are victorious. We are pleased with our progress in the court systems and commitment by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee to get to the bottom of this situation. We are confident we will be victorious and that the American people will be made aware of our battle and our victory. The story of who in government supported our cause will also be known.
We believe our prospects are high to win this battle. Mr. President, we expect this issue to be resolved favorably before the upcoming election in November. We will be watching and voting based on your choices and actions on this issue.
Mr. President, I look forward to seeing great things from you by resolving the Delphi Salaried Pension injustice.

"When injustice becomes law, then resistance becomes duty."
Thomas Jefferson
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.

pickb4me: We understand we are not alone in this issue. What the government did to those they considered too weak to fight back is unconscionable, immoral, unethical and illegal! Our organization has no right to represent anybody other than our members, but if we win then a clear path will be opened for others to follow. As I understand it there are somewhere between 1000 and 2000 members of the "splinter unions" who were also left out. It is our hope we can be of some help to them too. As I said earlier, this issue is not just about us though. This was unprecedented and as such the Obama Administration is setting precedent by their actions. If we allow them to get away with it then future generations will be even more harmed when someone figures out that "commercial necessity" is an appropriate way for our government to determine who gets what under any circumstances. I don't want my children to have to deal with that and they shouldn't have to. That is one reason we are continuing to fight. This affects everybody and they should all be working, supporting the effort by contacting their political representatives to demand our government treat all citizens in a fair and equitable manner. The lawyers think "legal" is fair, but I would remind them that women were prevented from voting legally, people have been forcibly sterilized and even enslaved "legally." Even if it was legal - it wasn't - that wouldn't make it right. Just tell them to do what is right!

miffed2009: Thank You for sending this well worded letter! I would hope that many more pick up on your lead and do something similar for the sake of the issue if not just for our group. What President Obama has done is truly dangerous and is a precedent we must not allow to stand. One suggestion: there are fax numbers on the Whitehouse.gov website. I would recommend sending a fax as the easiest way to get your message delivered. If you don't have a fax machine, there are several free faxing services available on the web, just "Google" it. Also, paper letters take weeks to deliver because of all the required security. E-mails can help too, but are easily deleted. Sending an electronic copy to your congressman and senators asking them to arrange delivery is another way to get your message to the right people too. Consider using one or more of those pathways to be sure your letter gets through. Thanks again!

They did not work for GM old or new
They had not work for GM for almost 10 years . Be mad at Delphi not GM.
They lost what they think they have comeing from Delphi . They lost it in the Delphi bankruptcy not the GM bankruphty

Freeatlast: Just out of curiosity, are you talking about the salaried retirees only or are you including the union represented members who saw their pensions fully protected through GM's use of our taxpayer provided funds too? Government corruption and making politically based decisions about how to treat the citizens of this country is simply unacceptable. Under the Obama Administration, some of us some had all the hope, all the rest of us got was the audacity. Unfair, immoral, unethical and illegal are the only accurate words to describe this situation and it must be corrected before it becomes common for our government to chose winners and losers based on their perceived "commercial necessity."

The bottom line of all of this is that our (meaning all tax-paying citizens) tax $$ have been used by the administration to pay up the pensions of union retirees, while not doing so for their non-union counterparts. They were not legally bound to do so in a bankruptcy where union contracts are voided. Whatever action the administration took with these two groups, it should have been equal. Our government cannot pick who receives benefits paid for by tax dollars based on whether the recipient was a union member or not. This is such a cautionary tale for everyone because once the precedent is set, this will continue.

I find it frightening that the unions exert so much control over our nation. Everyone complains about corporate involvement in politics, but what the unions do is the same thing, and somehow that's OK. The 99% cries about economic justice but fails to see when non-union people are unfairly dealt terrible blows of economic injustice. Equality is a straight line, it is unmalleable, it does not know if one has a union card or not. True justice and fairness are finite and unchanging. It is a scale that does not waver. You find it acceptable to look the other way but this does not diminish the absolute fact that a "grave injustice" (Ron Gettlefinger's words) did occur to these retired people.

anothermike, you say the salaried people chose not to belong to a union. Are you aware that any time management got even a hint that there might be discussions about creating a salaried union, names were taken and people were threatened with job loss? Would you continue insisting on something that would cost you your ability to put a roof over your family's head and food on the table? I'm guessing is no.

Freeatlast,

Contrary to your statements, there is most definitely an ongoing relationship between GM and Delphi. If there were not, why would the US Treasury's auto task force, PBGC AND GM have interfered with the Delphi bankruptcy process? And why would the Bankrupcy Court have agreed? And why did they make determinations about Delphi retirees as part of the GM bankruptcy process? And why were the interests of these retirees ("splinter" union and non-union) not represented during these discussions? GM was party to unfair, unjust and disparate treatment of middle class UNION AND NON-UNION retirees from Delphi, yet you say they have not been in a relationship for 10 years. The FACTS do not support your faulty assertionS! VOTERS MUST PROTECT ALL RETIREES AT THE POLLS !! These are YOUR taxpayer dollars being used by GM which requires fundamental justice, fairness and equity FOR ALL !

Your right the salary worker should get their bridge payments , But they should get them from Delphi .
The union workers had a court approved contact with GM .That was put in place at the time that Delphi was spun off ( at the request of the Delphi management ) . Just maybe the unions looked a head and saw what was going the happen At that time the salary were given the change to form their own union They turn it down .
One of my companies worked with setting up meetings . They said NO
.

Freeatlast,

According to the USDOL Bureau of Labor Statistics, In 2011, the union membership rate--the percent of wage and salary workers who were members of a union--was 11.8 percent. Are you suggesting that this minority of American workers/retirees should be treated more favorably by the US Government than those 88.2% who are not in a union?
While I respect contracts and applaud the UAW for having the foresight you mentioned, in bankruptcy there are no guarantees and GM was in such dire financial straits that taxpayers had to bail them out. And remember, the bankruptcy judge merely approved the plan that was developed and submitted to the court by GM, US Treasury, and the PBGC (with input from the UAW but NOT the Delphi salaried retirees). So, again I ask you - WHY was GM involved in the Delphi bankruptcy? If it was because of the UAW agreement you correctly mentioned, then WHY were the salaried retirees even part of the discussion? The fact that we were is proof of GM's ongoing relationship with Delphi and our pensions as well as the UAW's. No other suppliers were part of this discussion. We are happy for our union friends, neighbors, and former co-workers, and want only simple fairness and equity of treatment. Taxpayer money should never be used to favor one group over another.

Only because Delphi made so many parts for GM and they would have been hurt . But Delphi also made parts for others companies and it would have also hurt them and maybe shut them down ,But as I said ,I think the salary workers should have got their bridge payments till they become 62 like all workers , But they should have come from Delphi . Not GM !!!
They had not worked for GM for 10 years ! Plus all GM retirees have loss their health benefit from GM . If it was not for the union helping set up a trust fund with what money left , they would not have any benefits . But all that said I feel sorry for the Delphi salaried retirees . But it seems that all a lot of them want to do is hurt GM, the uaw . andt the workers .

We need to make a couple things clear: The Delphi Salaried Retirees have no problem with our friends and neighbors who were represented by powerful unions receiving the pensions they worked for, even though New GM was under NO OBLIGATION (that means the old contracts were with Old GM and the bankruptcy court said New GM was not obligated to them) to do so. Pensions are simply deferred income. They are earned through decades of service and they should be protected. It was the US Treasury that decided to reject GM's first Plan of Reorganization, but they refused to even tell Congress why they rejected it, and refused to allow the Congressional Committee to even see it! It was Treasury that coerced or approved or both a plan that would take care of the largest unions' pensions but nobody else's. It was the US Treasury that appointed the top leadership of New GM and then used them to get the plan they wanted. The leadership of the Auto Task Force was a corrupt investor (he paid a $28 million fine to the SEC for his activities in New York just after he left the administration) and a long time union attorney who obviously had his own agenda. He has now left the administration too and is currently representing postal workers among other things. The point is that the issue is not for or against unions! It is about the involvement of our federal government in a private industry bankruptcy and leaving behind all the requirements we place on our government in favor of making "commercial" decisions (read "political" instead of "commercial" in the case of the government.) GM, at the demand of the US Treasury, used OUR TAXPAYER PROVIDED FUNDS to "top up" the two large union's member's pensions, and they continue to do so. Why GM instead of Delphi? Because it is illegal for a company to turn their pensions over to the PBGC and then have what is called a "follow-on plan" to top them up. GM is not the company the retirees are from, so the top ups have been allowed. All we are saying is that when our government gets involved, we expect them to be fair, so if they are going to protect one group, then they need to protect all equally. Anything else is just wrong.

If you didn't put money away all those years for a rainy day and you don't have anything to fall back on. Is it my fault? Bail your own behind out. I didn't see you screaming for US Air employees while you were eating steak. You made all that money all those years and now I'm supposed to
feel sorry for you. Fat Chance

BruceG

NO OBLIGATION !!! you are right . But it was the court that said the contract could be up held . And it was the court that took you rights away And as for not being against your neighbors ,. I guess you have not read the comments by Fair and equal Who calls for boycott of all GM , UAW. And this is the same UAW that trid to help them . And from what I'm told are still trying in the back ground. Some times honey is better then vinegar I sure hope you win your fight . And get what is your due .

mnascar: No, I am not asking you to "feel sorry" for us. I am warning you to be very afraid of a government that uses this kind of decision making process. Are you "commercially necessary"? How about your spouse, your children, maybe your parents? If we allow our government to step into a private industry and use their own politically based decisions to determine who gets what, then they will do the same the next time, and maybe that will be something affecting your taxes, or your drivers license or your passport or something with the military. "Commercial necessity" should be used only when they are buying commodities like pencils and paper. The citizens of this country are not commodities, but they chose to treat us like we are. If we let them get away with this now, then it will only get worse later. Help us fix it! By the way, how was the US Government involved in the US Air issue? Did they orchestrate that bankruptcy too?

Freeatlast: No, it was not the court. It was the Treasury working with the people they appointed to run New GM. The court actually said there was no business reason to top up the non-UAW unions especially when GM had no more connection to them. Regarding Fairandequal: I have read some of those posts and don't always agree with them either. However I can understand how a person who worked for GM for most of his career would want vengeance on the company that stole his future without so much as a "thanks for giving us 30 years of your life" and then showed their gratitude to the represented retirees he worked with every day by topping up their pensions. I can also understand why he might not want to support a company that would do that to him and his friends or maybe others in his family. The best way to fix this is to resolve the issue and help him get the pension he worked for just as so many others did.

OK you win there is no convincing you
You know it all . And will not see the truth
Hope you win

Freeatlast, these people have a legit argument. If this isn't pickiing ' winners and losers' I don't know what is. Thank you BruceG for explaining this to the voters. Many did not understand what all the fuss was about. Now we all know.

Where is Tim Ryan in all of this??? Or is he only supporting the union people? I thought ALL working people paid for his salary with their taxes, shouldn't he be helping everyone that has/had a job?
Let' remeber ALL of them at voting time.

Freeatlast, these people have a legit argument.
Your right they do but it is with Delphi not GM
They did not work for GM for 10 years 10 YEARS !!!!!
That is more time then some worked for GM, .5 years with GM 10 years for Delphi and they want GM to pick up the tab . And you call that Fair and equal . I Think NOT
That like going back to the first place you ever worked and saying they owe you a pension Think about it . There just picking on GM and the UAW

Freeatlast, I don't think you will get anywhere with the voters or the average working stiff by telling them that GM & the UAW, who got billions in bailout and ownership of GM, are being PICKED ON by this small group of retirees. I doublt the bondholders and other secured creditors would think that either. You certainly don't do them any favor with that argument. LOL

Class
I'm not picking on the Delphi salary
I hope they can get a fair deal and always said so .
But I do think they are picking on the wrong group and the wrong company.
All that said ,I do not have a dog in this fight . It is just what I see as right

Bunch of CRY BABIES... So you have to do with a little less... OH WAIT!!!! It's like the rest of America. Get over it.