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Vindicator shares the blame

Published: Sun, December 16, 2012 @ 12:00 a.m.

Vindicator shares the blame

Last Sunday’s article by Ber- tram de Souza about the cesspool in our local politics seems to me to be also a criticism of The Vindicator’s editorial endorsement policies.

How many times have those editors endorsed for public office the very people named in de Souza’s column? Your editors suffer the same political bias as most of the voters in this area who are responsible as to who is elected to public office.

To run for public office takes a lot of money. Big money often calls for big favors.

In my experience, I have witnessed a federal investigation stopped in its tracks. At the very least, the big money people will use all their political influence to minimize the consequences. I have seen local political influence reach all the way to the White House.

If anybody thinks that federal agents cannot be compromised, they must have their head in the sand. Federal agents are no different than the local people. There are good and corrupt people in every organization.

It is my belief that The Vindicator should stop political endorsements. Then their criticisms of political officeholders would carry more weight

Donald G. Baker, Youngstown

The writer is a former Youngstown police chief.

Can’t we all just get along?

Nothing says Christmas like Washington infighting over the fiscal cliff. I suppose Americans can learn a few lessons this holiday season about compromise and working together to agree on mutually acceptable outcomes, but they will not be learned from this Congress and certainly not this president.

It is not as if Washington did not see this issue coming prior to Election Day. We knew about the fiscal cliff well in advance. But instead of working on this issue over the course of the year, Congress and the White House decided to put this off until the zero hour, with the end result being a piece of legislation hastily thrown together in under two months that ultimately may or may not solve the problem before January — except the problem is there is no piece of legislation at this point in December, and there are only now a few shopping days left until Christmas.

The dysfunction within Congress and with the White House is astounding, even more so than the visceral hatred that has culminated between Republicans and Democrats these last few years. Whatever is going on in Washington must be a game to both political parties, and the loser in all of it is the American people who put these people in charge of a job at which they are failing.

This kind of hardline politics is killing the American system. People will blame the Republicans, or they will blame the Democrats, but the real blame lies in the inability to make concessions on both sides of the aisle to arrive at legislation that mutually benefits everyone. We all live in this country, and though we may disagree on policies, we do not have to be out there actively trying to sabotage the other side in the name of politics. I do not think Boehner, Reid, or Obama quite understand that point of view but maybe it will sink in before January, or if not soon after.

No one gets everything they want for Christmas, but everyone is usually happy with whatever they do end up getting, even if it is an ugly sweater. If both sides in Washington settle on an ugly sweater before January, at least we will all be warm, even if we have to settle on looking ridiculous.

Alex Mangie, CPA, Canfield

A disgusting broad-sided attack

I would like to respond to last Sunday’s letter, “Misfits and deviants who voted for Obama will rue the day.”

In this letter, a man gave his strong and bigoted opinion on “misfits and deviants,” such as bloodthirsty and single women, homosexuals, dependent minorities and atheists and secularists. As much as I believe in everyone’s freedom of speech, this just disgusted me to no ends.

First, Obama had nothing to do with his letter except he needed someone to blame and it is obvious to me that this gentlemen has absolutely no idea what its like to be a female or to walk a mile in her shoes. If he did, he would have understood that in certain circumstances, women have to make difficult decisions that many don’t agree with, even myself, but I respect their right to choose.

As far as the birth control issue, he should have researched that birth control is not just for “unbridled” conduct; its also used to treat many other issues that women deal with on a monthly basis. Concerning his other misfits, homosexuals and dependent minorities, who is he to judge them? They don’t want preferential treatment, and he doesn’t have to accept them, their not pushing that issue. All they want is to be able to be treated with respect and given the same equality we all have. What’s wrong with that? In the Lord’s eyes, love is love and anyone trying to turn any kind of love between two consenting adults into something negative, doesn’t know the meaning of the word love.

And as for people like me, the dependent minority, has he ever known what it’s like to be poor and have to rely on food stamps because you’re unemployed or elderly or deficient? I bet not. Does he think people really want to be on food stamps and relying on others such as the government, to take care of them because at the moment they can’t take care of themselves? No way.

As far as atheism and secularism go, they have a right to believe or not believe, and it’s not our job to tell them otherwise.

Lastly, he said “we don’t want these people” and that God will not save such people. If he feels that strongly about it, then leave us people alone. We adapt to change and can survive any tribulation sent our way and we live each day knowing that God loves us. I will last week’s writer to my prayers at night because, quite frankly, it’s him who needs to be saved.

Melissa Magan, Youngstown

Help for the entrepreneurs

I enjoyed Todd Franko’s com- mentary Sunday about the new businesses at the corner of Federal and Phelps. I agree that this intersection has recently become a “special corner” in Youngstown. But more can and should be done toward revitalization of our downtown.

I also agree with Lisa Reali, my barber, who told Mr. Franko: “My [business plan] was contingent on growth of downtown. Daytime business growth has not been as strong as nighttime growth.”

As Mr. Franko wrote, Lisa has not “failed” in her business, which she started almost four years ago. Rather, she has been forced by business conditions to “downsize” what has been a unique salon in the downtown area. This causes me to think about what — if anything — might be done to assist local hard-working entrepreneurs like Lisa Reali to fully realize their creative business potential.

Atty. Jan Mostov, Boardman

Labor law makes unions obsolete

The reality of Right To Work is that unless you can organize the world, union dues are money flushed. Short of a global disaster of biblical proportions, the exponential growth of unskilled labor worldwide is only going straight up.

So why join a union? Labor laws apply to everyone, not just union members. Individual rights permit the filing of claims against employers without union help. Unions these days are negotiating in reverse ... give backs, plant closings etc.

You don’t have to look far to see the local impact of unions. RG Steel which has a union in Warren is liquidating while V&M Star without a union is booming. The residents of Michigan are the big winners, while we will continue in decline.

Tim Ryan, Newton Falls


1ulistenup(95 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago


As much as I appreciate the fact that the "Misfits" letter author was overly negative - he did make some arguable points.

1. Abortion is a crime, even if it isn't considered one today.

2. Contraception violates God's laws - and only a small percentage of women on the pill take it for non-contraceptive reasons.

3 There is a militant homosexual "agenda" out there that is seeking to make same-sex marriage legal and promote a misunderstanding of homosexual behavior to the general community and to students in particular.

4. There are militant atheists too who are bent on removing God from all of society.

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2ulistenup(95 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago


1. Abortion is murder - whether legal now or not. Homosexuality used to be illegal but a majority considers it legal now - and slavery USED to be legal - according to a majority. Just because a majority says something does not make it right in God's eyes.

2. After Onan's brother Er died, his father Judah told him to fulfill his duty as a brother-in-law to Tamar, by giving her offspring. Centuries later, in the days of Moses, this practice was formulated into a law of a levirate marriage, where the brother of the deceased would provide offspring to the childless widow to preserve the family line.

However, when Onan had sex with Tamar, he disregarded this principle when he withdrew before climax and "spilled his seed [or semen] on the ground", since any child born would not legally be considered his heir. He disregarded the principle of a levirate union, so he died prematurely, exactly as God had warned would happen. (Genesis 38:3-10) This isn't the only biblical basis for God's prohibition of contraception, but it'll do.

3. It is just plain silly to ignore the militancy of the homosexual's and atheists' agendas. They are the ones who don't want "to live and let live."

4. Separation of church and state does not mean to inhibit "the free exercise of religion," as is guaranteed in the Constititution.

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3GoPens(397 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago

Ulistenup won't be happy until we have a Taliban type government system here in America with the Christian Church making laws. He/she is too dense to know the difference between religious dogma and American law (and common sense).

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4ulistenup(95 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago


Religion has provided the moral framework for society's laws for thousands of years - until recently.

The Church doesn't make man's laws - but I believe you will agree that murder is still one of God's prohibitions still recognized in man's laws.

As far as common sense is is concerned - most law follows common sense - even today.

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5GoPens(397 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago

The church doesn't make man's laws but everything you propose is based on your religious beliefs, which is NOT shared by all in this country. Whether you want to believe it or not there is a separation of Church and State in this country and religion has NO basis in forming any law. You would have a theocracy in the U.S.

It's people like you who are driving people away from churches in droves. You really need to get your head out of the Old Testament and try reading the New.

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6kurtw(1312 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago

I listen to Ulistenup and I think, whew, man, heavy stuff: so Onan withdrew his penis from Tamar and spilled his seed (when exactly did all this happen?) and that's a principle we should observe today in terms of family life and relations between the sexes. Wow! Heavy stuff, man. I'm trying to get my head around it.

I'm sorry. It's easy to make fun and you shouldn't make fun of someone else's religion (good thing Ulistenup is a Christian and not an Islamic- or I might now find myself with an extra mouth right at throat level), but his comments illustrate the problem of tying moral principles to fables and superstition- at some point the mind wakes up from its slumber and realizes- hey, wait a minute, none of this makes sense (for instance in the Old Testament it states that Joshua made the "sun stand still"- remember in those days the belief was the sun moved- the Earth stood still- in the 17th Century the Roman Catholic Church was still burning heretics for saying the contrary- that the earth actually moved around the Sun which, of course, we now know is correct. Or do we?).

The point I'm trying to make is if you tie morality- decent behavior- to superstition (as all Middle Eastern Religions- Judaism, Christianity and Islam- do) then at some point people wake up and, in many cases, they "throw the baby out with the bath water"- discard the morality along with the Superstition it was connected to.

Actually, if you look at Eastern religions, especially Buddhism, their track record is a lot better- what the Buddha preached- because it wasn't tied to Superstition- is still valid after 25 Centuries: Compassion, Love, Respect for all Living Creatures (essentially the Golden Rule: which Jesus also preached). I especially like Buddhas injunction to always follow the Middle Way: Moderation in All Things.

The Bottom Line: Learn and Practice the Golden Rule: Treat your Neighbor as you would like to Treated- and you'll be fine. The rest is just BS (including much of the Old Testament -Onan"s Spilled Seed, etc.etc.- my profound apologies to Ulistenup).

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7AnotherAverageCitizen(1176 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago

I have not found in the bible where everyone should be entiltled to own a AK-47.

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8ulistenup(95 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago


Look up the definition of coitus interruptus.

Then tell me what is it about Onan's actions that you don't understand or is superstition?

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9GoPens(397 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago

You need to stop while you're behind, ulistenup.

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10Education_Voter(894 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago

Okay. Trophy to ulistenup for most disgusting posts.
Subtitle for the Book of Genesis: "It's a Man's World"

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11ulistenup(95 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago


"Subtitle for the Book of Genesis: "It's a Man's World"'

Your weak attempt at humor at the expense of all bible believing Christians is offensive, if not blasphemous.

The original inquiry was for a biblical reference to the condemnation of contraception. The Book of Genesis provides that reference.

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12uselesseater(229 comments)posted 2 years, 7 months ago

That Melissa sure got on a bender just like the letter to the editor did.

There is so much wrong with the prevailing mentality on many points.

"right to choose"

I just love the absolutely moronic statement that women have a right to choose life or to conspire to commit murder.

There exists no logical right to commit murder.

Government and activist courts can legislate whatever they want to from the bird perch control chair. It doesn't make it right. Do we need all the examples of government gone nuts and legalizing horrific things?

"the dependent minority" "poor, unemployed, elderly or deficient"

This is a funny rant section by Miss Melissa. What constitutes a minority today? Being "poor"? The majority of the population is technically poor. Officially we have about 16% of the population so poor they can't even feed themselves.

Lots of these people are actually EMPLOYED. They just don't make enough money for the number of people in their household.

If we include the retired who are low income but yet too prideful to jump in the freebie line, we have far more poor folks than anyone wants to admit.

"Abortion is a medical procedure. It is legal."

So is the death penalty. So are most reproductive mutilations. So were all sorts of shock treatments and application of deadly drugs. So was inject syphilis into black men a medical procedure.

The liberal gay agendists are no better than the religious fundamentalists. Both extreme groups seek to polarize and destroy.

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