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Lordstown workers receive $9,000 in bonuses



Published: Fri, October 28, 2011 @ 12:01 a.m.

By Karl Henkel

khenkel@vindy.com

Earl Ross has seen it all during his 13 years as owner of an eatery — and now pub — just a few blocks from General Motors’ Lordstown complex.

He’s seen good — anytime in the past when the plant has worked three shifts.

He’s seen the bad — when GM worked only two shifts, like in 2009 as Chevrolet Cruze production got under way.

He’s seen the ugly — during the pre-Cruze days, when the plant worked just a single shift.

Now, he’s seen the great — and is gleaning the fields.

Ross, owner of Ross’ Eatery and Pub — formerly called Ross’ Foods before late last year, when he

revamped previously empty space into a pub — is enjoying success that parallels that of the plant.

There’s enough work to last deep into most nights and money flowing into the community through workers who are happy to spend.

But it wasn’t always that way.

In 2009, when Lordstown was down to one shift, Ross was, for all intents and purposes, down to one shift.

He employed just four workers.

“I was trying to do everything myself,” he said. “I just treaded water and went into survival mode for what seemed like an eternity.”

Now, as the establishment approaches its 14th anniversary next month, Ross employs 20.

“The second they went back to three shifts, things really picked up,” he said.

Ross’ experience is just one of many economic impacts driven by the Mahoning Valley’s top employer.

Jim Graham, president of United Auto Workers Local 1112, says the plant feels many connections to the select businesses that surround it, because they’ve all been in the same economic boat.

“They know what the tough times are like, and now that the plant is working well, they are reaping the benefits,” Graham said. “That’s what it’s all about.”

Graham also said that each job in the plant leads to seven to 10 indirect or direct jobs in supporting industries.

Workers at Comprehensive Logistics, a major GM Lordstown supplier in Austintown, often have worked seven days a week to keep up with the workload. Others, such as Jamestown Industries and Magna Seating, have been equally busy.

“The spin-offs are incredible,” said Tom Mock, spokesman at GM Lordstown, who also attributed the economic impact of the plant to its 15,000 area retirees.

“They’ve got pensions and spend money,” he said. “They are a sheer economic force that is often overlooked.”

Then there are the 4,500 workers who are employed at the Lordstown complex, significantly fewer than the heyday of the 1970s but about 3,000 more than two years ago.

But the employment numbers at the auto plant aren’t the only driving force helping the economy.

GM is profitable for the first time since 2004, and its workers are seeing the benefits.

In March, each of the approximately 4,000 then-Lordstown workers received $4,000 profit-sharing checks. With the new GM-UAW contract inked last month, workers are receiving $5,000 bonus checks.

For Tier 1 workers, who make about $58,000 annually, those two checks represent a 15 percent salary increase.

For the hundreds of Tier 2 workers at Lordstown, it’s a 31 percent bump.

The combined bonus checks have or will pump about $38 million into the local economy.

It’s already positively affected Lordstown village’s bottom line.

Deputy Clerk Bill Blank said that 2011 income-tax revenues are expected to top $5.1 million, $1 million higher than in 2010 and nearly $2 million more than in 2009.

“We get to see the effects locally through income taxes,” said Lordstown Mayor Michael Chaffee. “But if you multiply that out, it’s a lot of money pumped into the economy.”

That has a broad effect on the Mahoning Valley.

“It’s extremely positive,” said Cleveland-based economist George Zeller. “Not only does it help those workers, but they’re going to spend that money in the Valley.”

Sean Urban, an assembly worker at the Lordstown plant for the past four years, has spent his money — including bonuses — freely.

He frequents Ross’ eatery four to five days a week.

“Sacrifices have been made since the bankruptcy, and it’s all paying off now,” he said. “When you’re doing well, you spend money.”

He hasn’t spent it all that freely, however.

Urban said most of his bonuses have gone to pay bills, and he’s banked some for future use.

More bonuses could come later, especially after last week’s news that Lordstown was awarded the diesel Cruze beginning in 2013. It means the demand for work in the plant will continue.

Dave Green, president of UAW Local 1714, said the workers put in the day-in, day-out effort, and the success is shared throughout the Valley.

“It’s all for nothing if we didn’t have the support in the community,” he said. “I’m glad we’re able to have such an impact in the Valley and glad the community has rallied around us.”


Comments

1arod(258 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Be smart and save it for the slow times.

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2YtownParent(250 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

No the tax payers, many of whom aren't lucky enough to still have their jobs, pumped all that money back into the community. Thank the American people for letting Congress waive capitalism for General Motors when the free market decided it failed as a company.

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3Education_Voter(816 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Wow. The combined amount of those two bonuses alone are more than I made in my first 5 years of teaching.

I made about the same as tier 1 workers this year after working my way up the salary scale for 30 years.

Maybe they should do as Ohio public school teachers do by law. Put 10% of that total compensation into a pension savings.

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4Education_Voter(816 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I don't want to seem as if I am complaining. Congratulations on having a good job. I could have tried to get a job there, but didn't.
I know you all have gone through a lot of worry in the last few years.

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5UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Buy a Cruze - keep the good times rolling at Lordstown!

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6melissa561(9 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

And what does the retires get probably nothing and we made the union to where it is today

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7melissa561(9 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

and I did 30 years with them and the first to be cut with benifits is the retires

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8youngstown615(94 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Workers @ Lordstown......enjoy the "good times" & big bonuses now, but remember, you will retire some day. GM & the union seems to forget us & they will forget you. Don't depend on the union supported Athem health care......it doesn't pay much, if anything. Class A discounted cars.....another joke. Most GM cars are thousands more then Fords. I was sent a letter from GM offering to allow retirees "to be the first " to be able to buy "the NEW GM" stock at the price of $37. It is now around $24. Lucky I was smart enough to "shred" the letter. GM & UAW.......don't do us any favors. ( And I know you won't" )

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9faith(200 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Great job GM / UAW. I love my Cruze! As for the retirees, I am pretty sure that the UAW/GM retirees kept their pensions and major medical. Recognize that most others are not so lucky. I would credit the UAW for protecting these folks.

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10faith(200 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

thomas, there are over 8M people that work in the auto industry in the USA. The TARP $ was supported by all the auto makers, domestic and foreign alike. Do you realize that without the hand up the entire industry would have been decimated. 100's of part suppliers would have gone bankrupt.If you can remember just two short years ago, the global economy was in trouble, and it is still fragile. Every country protects its manufacturing base with subsidies except the US so the fact that we needed to put some $ into our nations #1 economic driver was the right thing to do. Now our government needs to impose some regulations on Wall St. and banks so we don't fall into the same trap. At least the auto worker took consesions when we helped them out, the Wall St. folks went on vacation and got bonuses. Educate yourself, put the blame where it belongs.

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11Stan(9923 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Sad to see no mention of Delphi . . ..

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12fd6636(254 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Remember those who were before you when you get the check!!! Remember how you got where you are today! To the auto workers: Remember when the Vindicator used to blast the auto workers for making a good living?? now they praise you guys. Go figure.

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13penguin86(11 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

GM is a perfect example of how the government opreates. The Govt hands GM 6.7 billion in cash, but buys 61% of the company stock(at $55 dollars a share. GM stock is now trading @ 28 or so as I write this). Exec's at GM say they've paid back the 6.7 billion, which is true but the gov't still has a line of credit available to the tune of 20 billion. But the stock price loss is nowhere to be seen! And just last month, the Treasury dept said taxpayers losses on the auto bailout will be around 14 billion. All thoses GM 'bonuses' are more like taking water out of the shallow end of the pool and putting it in the deep end and saying that you are filling up the pool. the whole thing is gonna be a fiasco when the bill comes due. The govt will come looking for the money, folks, and you will pay. Through fees and other hidden items, the valley will pay.

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14faith(200 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

fd is right. The UAW wages were always at the center. Every other worker would get raises when the UAW did. This is how the unions have raised the standard of living in the USA. The fact that unions have lost strength (membership) and many people are misinformed and think unions are socialist or thugs or alcoholics or whatever, this is the reason that the wages have fallen for all workers. So when you hate people for making a penny more than you do, you are actually hurting yourself. I believe in labor unions. I think they are insurance for your jobs and rights in the workplace. I also know that non-union workers benefit from unions.

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15justthink41s(5 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Let me start my declaring that I am not a Union worker, not that I would not like to be.
People in this area make me laugh, the jealousy and stupidity runs rampid. If GM would have gone away we all would be feeling major effects. I am glad the govt bailed them out with my money because at least it was a success.
It also makes me laugh when public employees, esp teachers complain about how much a GM worker makes. You fools, how do you expect to get your pay if the tax money from good paying jobs is not there to support it. Also, and I know there are some teachers who work more, but most of you dont come close to working the 2000 plus hours that make everyone elses salary. Buy a car made or sold in your community and maybe you'll make more money next year. Notice I didnt bash Honda or Hyudai, if you live in Columbus, buy a Honda, if you live in Youngstown buy a GM. Dont bite the hand that feeds you and fight for more good paying jobs.

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16justthink41s(5 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Govt uses taxes to bail GM=GM survives, makes changes, becomes profitable=workers get paid, jobs created=workers spend money in community=local businesses prosper=taxes get collect of workers and businesses=public employees get paid, schools get built, senior centers get funded.

Pretty simple is it.

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17walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

faith,
You are wrong; it was not a hand up but a hand out. A pure payback to the UAW for supporting Barack the Jokester for president. Did they help the Delphi retirees? NO. GM was a poorly run company with bad management, poor business practices, and union leadership that has run amok. They got rewarded and bondholders got screwed. As for the bonuses, no doubt the workers have earned them under their contract. However, they should be paid with new GM stock that they must be forced to hold until every penny is paid back to Uncle Sam.

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18James_S(259 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I'm sickened by the transition from "General Motors" to "Government Motors".
Our government "bailed out" General Motors (and Chrysler).
Therefore, our government (and its "employees", our politicians) which is owned and operated by THE INTERNATIONAL BANKERS, OWNS "General Motors" and "Chrysler".
Ford never needed bailed out like "Government Motors" or Chrysler did.
I've owned a few "Government Motors" and "Chrysler" vehicles.
But from now on, it's going to be Ford for the reasons stated above.

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19Woody(451 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Said it once, will say it again. Unions shaft the above average worker. How so you may ask.

Well usually in union contracts it is last in first out when it comes to who gets let go during layoffs. Say you have a 10 year guy that is doing average or below avarage work, and a guy that has been there for 6 months, but he is the most productive, punctual employee in the plant. Under union rules he is the first to go. Not only that, even though his ROI is greater for the company, they can't reward him. Say the company was going through some tough times, that employee, or any employee maybe willing on his own to take a little bit less to keep his job. Can't happen, so he gets let go.

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20Bigben(1996 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

@justhink

"I know there are some teachers who work more, but most of you dont come close to working the 2000 plus hours that make everyone elses salary." - - -Your forgetting about continuing education time that all teachers must pay for out of there own pockets and prep time off the clock.

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21Bigben(1996 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I think it is great that GM is doing well.

However, I agree that these sort of bonuses should be reserved until all the money is paid back .

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22justthink41s(5 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

@Bigben,

Teachers are professionals, most professionals have to pay for continuing education and perform work off the clock so to speek. I am not denying teachers a fair paycheck, I just wish they would look at what others have to do to get theirs, Just a fair comparison.
@walter, Not a Barrack fan myself but it was GW who started the whole bailout.
@woody, fio can be an issue, all unions dont reward lack of productivity. The good thing about a union though is you will not loose your job because some unimaginitive VP cuts jobs to make his bottom line look better. If you have no one to stand up for your rights you do not have a chance. Companies do performance reviews and do not even use them when it comes time to cut back. They just wack the people between 30 and 50. Try recouping what 20 years of hard work and dedication got you. Unions exist because companies cant be trusted to do the right thing.
I challenge all of you to look back through your family and I bet a majority of you benefitted from a union worker, be it your Dad, Mom, or Grandparents. How soon you all forget.

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23justthink41s(5 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

@woody, I meant , last in first out, not fio. Just lost my mind for a minute.

Great discussion

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24walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

terryz34,
Only to the extent that the employee expenses exceed 2% of adjusted gross income. This is especially difficult if you file a joint return. You can file a return "married filing separate" and make the deductions but then the Ohio income tax penalizes you by not giving you joint filing credit.

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25nascar74(43 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

A bonus for signing a contract. Bonuses should be based on performance. It was nice to see a small quote from a GM spokesperson in the article. As I have said before, it is usually always quotes from the union people only. People in this area seem to think the union are their employers. What a joke. Still wouldn't buy a GM product.

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26Woody(451 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Because of their choosen careers, both my parents were part of Unions. Any you know what, I bet with out the union I bet they would have done better. I think they were above average in thier lines of work. See when you set an artifical floor on wages, be it the union wage or minimium wage, you discourage companies from employing people they might consider. Ohio minumium wage right now is $7.40. If a company cannot realize a return on employment of greater than or at least equal to $7.40 from hiring an employee, they will not hire. It would be like building a solar panel for $6 and selling for it for $3. It does not make business sense (see Solyndra).

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27jetercp(67 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

wow glad to see the automotive business getting bonuses while the rest of us college educated people are struggling... thanks for the bailout... unreal...

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28cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

For all you people crying about the government loan that saved the American auto industry, if you live in Ohio it wasn't your money.

For every dollar the citizens of Ohio send to DC in federal taxes Ohio gets $1.05 back. 100% plus a welfare check. Ohio is one of 33 states that get more back in federal taxes than they pay. I live in one of the 17 states that lent that money, pays to run the government and chip in for those 33 welfare checks. Instead of complaining about a loan you didn't contribute for you should just be grateful for the money it infused into your local economy.

And in case you didn't know, loans for an American auto company helps them compete with the foreign auto companies that are subsidized by their governments that pay union wages in every country they have auto plants in including China, all except their factories in America.

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29AnotherAverageCitizen(1172 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Good for GM workers. Hats off to them.
Retireds are just that retired. Bonuses went to the current workers, no all who may have not even worked at gm for the past 12 years. If you don't currently work there. how could you even expect a bonus.

Where is the outcry that CEO's get for leaving Failing companies. IE Kasich...

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30LeoFibanacci(19 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Claiming that the entire auto industry would have collapsed without a bailout is suspect at best. It does parrot what the bailers want you to believe. Nobody deserves a bonus until the people who paid to bail out GM are made whole. GM's profits are only based on a company that was permitted to circumvent the standard bankruptcy process and jettison all of their debts and obligations. No bonuses for those who owned the GM debt and stock and got the shaft?

Letting government pick winners and losers in the free market opens up a can of worms and moral hazard.

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31youngstown615(94 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Anotheraveragecitizen.....We retirees are not asking for a bonus, we are just asking that the benifits, we retired with, & gave up when GM was in trouble, be restored, now that GM is back from the brink. This is only right. The workers took NO cut in pay or loss in benifits, to help GM......we did. This was fine, now restore them. Right? We are not wanting anyone to feel pity for us, but just like socal security, we worked & paid into, not give it to us & the benifits we were promised. NO more No less.

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32walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

cambridge,
You keep making this point and it is fallacious. All federal tax receipts go to the federal treasury but when they disburse the payments, they don't all come back to the individual states to be paid out. Some goes to individuals. You can try to accumulate them into a state aggregate but that is an accounting trick, you see. Now, I would estimate that my community of Canfield pays more to the federal treasury than we get back versus a community like Youngstown. So, you see, it is my money. It is all of our money as US citizens as we are the government. This is why the best tax is that which stays closest to my pocket. In Canfield, I have no problem paying 1% of my income because I receive excellent services that are under the control of a city manager or council that I can readily contact

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33snydro0108(61 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

AnotherAverageCitizen- great screen name for someone DEFENDING these bonuses. GM employees earn just AVERAGE wages, right? Do you think GM Retirees or Delphi retirees earned those types of wages when they were working? No. My neighbor works the 2nd shift out there and if you ever want a Movie Review, just ask. He watches movies his entire shift and now gets a bonus for doing NOTHING!! You need to wake up....but then again, you are just ANOTHER AVERAGE CITIZEN!!!!And dont forget to vote NO on Issue 2 also, you idiot Union Lover!

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34justthink41s(5 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

@snydro, your neighbor is an @#$.

Anywhere you look you are going to have someone taking advantage of the system. Thankfully though, most of the employees must do their job or no cars would get built. I wish I had a dollar for everytime someone uses that statement.

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35mcluvin(72 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Just curious. What if the county and city gave every employee $9k to stimulate the economy? How would that go over? GM took $6billion in taxpayer money and gave out bonuses. Bertrum, your thoughts?

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36faith(200 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Want a movie review, watch "inside job". IT WAS THE BANKS AND WALL ST. THAT COLLAPSED OUR ECONOMY! What has changed? NOTHING.

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37YtownParent(250 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

The bailout is a market manipulation, pure and simple. If the industry would have been decimated, which is debatable, that is what happens in a free market. Businesses go bust as the market changes and workers migrate from one industry to another. The problem with manipulating the market, whether it's done to protect the jobs and fortunes of a few CEO's, stock and bond holders, or employees is that the market will inevitably push back even harder against those manipulations in an effort to correct itself.

No reasonable person, myself included, thinks that anyone losing their job is a good thing. Every lost job, whether GM or McDonalds, is bad for individuals, the community and the whole country, but it is not the government's or taxpayers job to protect and guarantee anyone's job.

Had GM and other automakers been forced to live with the consequences of their own decisions workers would have had to find other employment. Some of whom may have had to resort starting their own businesses and hired other people. Any new industries have no chance of even entering the marketplace because it's weighted down with dead businesses like GM and failed commercial interests like banks.

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38VindyPost(436 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

snydro,
Sounds like you have more beef w/ the good neighbor! Perhaps jealousy, envy, or plain disgruntledness. GM shifts work their butts off on the line. Productivity is result here. Sure, when there's "down time" and "break time" employees may eat, chat, check phone msgs, facebook, im, or movie review! Depends on many company policies what employees are permitted and not permitted to do. Frankly, It goes on in most workplaces. (private & public sector, non-union & union) Your evaluation/analysis is extremely blown out of proportion on one individual you're having a hardship with.

** BTW: Ohioians hear Kasick and cronies watch movies in taxpayers' KingAir from Columbus enroute to Dayton. Lead by example! **

Indeed , Congratulations to each and everyone of GM employees for their hard work, dedication, and success. (labor; powerhouse of America) Their bonus?... Well-deserved! Now go stimulate the economy! ;^)

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39paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Unions have ruined this country and bankrupted this area.

GM should have been allowed to fail!

GM employees should be ashamed to get bonuses before they pay the government back.

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40cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

walter_sobchak.....Ohio gets back $1.05 for every dollar in federal taxes sent to DC. That is a fact. Anything the people of Ohio benefit from that was paid for with federal taxes came from 17 states and Ohio isn't one of them. All of Ohio's federal taxes are returned along with a welfare check. None of the money loaned to the auto companies came from Ohio.

You're welcome.

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41Bigben(1996 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

"BIGBEN you forgot to tell us how your continuing education,meals, motel,hotel,gasoline, airline tickets,bus tickets,educational supplies,etc,etc,are all tax deductible.If I am wrong, I'm sorry.But I think I'm pretty close to being right.Please respond."

- - - -Motel rooms ect you must mean administrators. Teachers get a percentage for write offs but many have to go above and beyond to fund even their classroom materials.I think too it may depend on what system one works in as well as to what is allotted for materials.
Again it is stressful but more stressful in certain districts I believe.

Most continuing education will mean college courses and life long learning so your never done. I don't know of too many professions like that.At one time you went to college and graduated and taught not so any more you have two state tests you must pay for constant license renewals , FBI/BCI background checks that must be renewed yearly.Even if you already have a masters degree you are forced to continue on another degree path.

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42Bigben(1996 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Maybe I misspoke about GM paying back ?

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43redgpgtp(37 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

It's funny how the vindy and all the news outlets are constantly publishing GM worker salaries and bonuses, and this and that about GM, especially when others are having a hard time in this economy. Then people get all riled up about it. " It was the workers fault this company failed. The government shouldn't have bailed them out, those worthless lazy workers..." and on and on. Well I believe it was Management who allowed badly designed products to be manufactured and sold to the public along with other bad decisions . Why are they so successful now if it was the UAW? Nothings really changed EXCEPT new management , new leadership. Why didn't Rick Wagoner stand in front of congress and say it was the union's demands that forced this company to make decisions it could never live up to and eventually collapse. He had the floor to do it, to disgrace the union but he didn't say one thing bad about the UAW, at least I didn't hear him if he did. He knew what went on in those executive offices up in Detroit. Ironically, before he was fired, he may have been the one along with that car guru guy they rehired to redesign and put some spice in their boring cars which inevitabally brought back customers to the company, but of course he had to be the sacrificial lamb for the bailout. The government said this company was the worst managed company ever when they looked at the books. This is the same company who bought a stake in Fiat years earlier then decided they weren't a good match then had to pay Fiat billions to get out of the deal. A waste of funds point blank. The way they are making money now, since they are selling good vehicles like the Cruze, the Malibu, the Equinox, the Lacrosse, the Enclave, the CTS, and all those trucks, all which have gotten great reviews by the way, they should have no problem paying off the balance of the bailout funds to shut up these critics.

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44doubled(210 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

That's right -- you posters on here who just can't stand the fact that lordstown builds a good vehicle -- well, you miserable losers just continue to "hate" everybody or anybody that actually succeeds or has even a little bit of good fortune and see how far you get with that attitude. You can't stand govt employees b/c they earn a livable wage and you can't stand private sector employees when they get a bonus for doing a good job. Your the same ones that cry and whine about how this area is down b/c democrats are the majority. Well, after seeing your pathetic display on this site, I suggest that this area is down b/c it has too many people like you. In fact, it won't be until your kind is gone from here that this area will thrive once again. So please, for the sake of the younger generations, just go away. You're no good for us and quite frankly, we don't want you here anymore. No room for cry babies at this table. WE have work to do.

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45walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

cambridge,
If you want to continue to play fast and loose with the definitions, "OHIO" sends nothing to the federal government. The people send the money. Or, how about this: The bailout money sent to GM was only paid by the people of the state of Ohio. But, all of the money spent on highway and bridge construction came only from California. You see, an accounting gimmick, like the knid used for the Social Security Trust Fund.

Your not welcome, you're a manipulator.

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46Bigben(1996 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

@ Justthink41S - -I hear you. I would like to know what professions have continuing education as far as college courses that are mandatory for as long as the professional wishes to remain licensed? I know lawyers do not have to obtain another degree after they are licensed and they make much more than teachers. Many put in long hours though.

I think to be fair one should get what they put into their careers. A Mc Donald 's employee while hard working doesn't have to earn a degree , pay for state exams , or partake in mandatory continuing education. Some jobs pay more and some jobs require more of the employee.Unless of course one is communist minded and thinks all workers should be payed the same regardless of what one does. I respect other people's views who disagree.

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47cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

walter_sobchak....I'm not manipulating anything and the tax payers of Ohio didn't contribute anything for the loans the auto companies got.

Answer this simple question for me. If you visit the local Stop-n-Rob and purchase a product that cost $1.00, you hand the clerk $1.00 and the clerk hands you the product and $1.05 in change, how much did you spend for the product? Take your time. do do do do, do do do do.....

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48Freeatlast(1989 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Wow I know all the haters here will not believe this BUT Gm paid all the money back . It is right that they have a lot of GM stock that is part of the pay back but it is up to the Government to sell that to get their money back GM does not owe any money to the Government or tax payers .

I know this is over the haters head ,but that is the truth

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49YtownParent(250 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

The point isn't how much GM pays back/paid back nor when. Nor the amount of interest they pay. GM was wrong in asking for and accepting a single dime of money. No one bailed out the steel mills and side industries that went bankrupt. And how much did the auto industry contribute to their demise by using less and less steel to manufacture their products. GM wasn't entitled to any type of assistance and they sure as the hell didn't earn it, regardless of whether they pay it back or not.

But anyone upset about it is a hater. The people who are protesting it are defiled as lazy, jobless, welfare coasters who think they are entitled to a free ride from the government. No matter how many of them have jobs they go to, and homes they pay for, or how many years they served our country fighting wars abroad while we haven't so much as paid a few dollars more in taxes.

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50jmagaratz(154 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

I would like to hear a "right wing nut case" argue with a GM worker why he should not vote for the Democratic nominee for the Presidency.

Let's see:

Right wing nut: You should not get a bonus because it is subsidized by taxpayers and by the free market GM should have been allowed to go "belly up!"

GM employee: To bad about the free market and to hell with the Republican nominee.

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51Seeitcoming(10 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Go Lordstown workers!!!!! We are happy for you & the Valley. Without GM this place will go under even more!
We own a Cruze and love it! We have also help persuade3 other people to purchase one. We all need to buy GM & buy American. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot people. No, we do not work at GM but we know many who do!

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52thinkthentalk(257 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Now we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Pres Obama helped GM. The fox/rush/teapotty morons labeled him a socialist. How did that argument go? Our kids and grandkids will have to pay? If he did nothing, as speaker cantor, lead (R)idiots palin and bachman would have him do, well of course, the rightwing crybaby boehner comments on this blog would be that the Pres did not show "leadership", and Tim Ryan did nothing. Well, im glad that Mr. Obama showed stellar leadership, my kids and grandkids have food in thier belly, my friends and neighbor union GM workers spend thier pay and bonus at my business, and i still own my house. 20/20 hindsight? Too hell with the (R)s at any level.

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53L0L(607 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

But lets still bash the union workers like everyone does, lets blame the union public workers for all the ares economic woes and lets keep thinking that they have it sooo much better than the private sector. Tier 1 workers at GM make $58k and got a $9k bonus this year. I dont believe I recall public workers ever getting a bonus....

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54samIam(204 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Let me see if I understand this $9000.00 bonus. First we the taxpayers bail out an antiquated industry to allegedly save the economy .Contrary to popular non-truths the loans have not yet been repaid. Then we give the very individuals that under-whelmed the world with their product's a "Feel Good About Themselves" $9000.00 taxpayer gift to continue to under-whelm. The best part of it all is the that the new company owners (Taxpayers) don't even get the "Employee Discount" What a Country! Buy Ford.

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55cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

samlam....Like I explained in post #33 on this thread, if you live in Ohio none of the money loaned to the auto companies was yours.

Every time someone on this site posts a comment complaining about taxes they don't pay I'll be pointing that out..

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56walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Cambridge,
Cite your source for this "fact" b/c last time I checked, the federal budget is running at a deficit every year so bonds are sold to float the debt. The money is comong from somewhere and I pay a large amount iin taxes. Your "math" just doesn't hold as I tried to explain to you before.

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57energeticsole(1 comment)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Some of you may have heard about the recent concerns at Comprehensive Logistics in Austintown. They supply over 30% of GM product. Several of my family members work for this company. Some over 6 years. This last contract should not have passed and it only passed by 59 votes. The older folks actually took a pay cut. It came with only a $100 signing bonus. Took away bonus paid days. Took away teamlead pay. Raised their insurance fees. Since the Local steelworkers union board members are working with the company the older folks got reemed here. Since the newcomers outweigh the old timers they gear the contract to benefit them. Old Timers are asking themselves why do we continue to pay union dues when we get nothing out of it. I am all for GM and their big bonus checks, but my issue is that this plant does only work for GM why in the world did the steelworkers union not recognize and reward accordingly. This company makes million every quarter. And the workers are getting crap for GM work. If the union is strong and works for you this is great. However when they are siding with the company and filling their pockets with bonus money, and could care less about their longtime employees then its time to stand up to them and fight for what you deserve. Comprehensive longtime employees deserve their bonus checks and it should be more than $100. GM should be made aware of this. Cant they feel a trickle down effect. What about the little man, they are in the valley too. Please excuse me for ranting, we are just very irratated with Union officials at this point.

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58cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

walter_sobchak....here are a few source's.

http://visualizingeconomics.com/2010/...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research...

http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/f...

http://stonesoup.wordpress.com/2011/0...

I never said you didn't pay taxes. All I said was that the state of Ohio receives $1.05 for every dollar paid in federal taxes. In my book that means they do not contribute regarding running the government or for the loans that saved the American auto industry and helped them compete with foreign auto companies that have been subsidized by their governments for decades.

I already know that you will dispute this and I also know you wont provide any proof that backs up you opinion.

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59redgpgtp(37 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Don't forget, these workers do make good money but they also pay taxes on all that overtime and bonuses, probably more than the average tax payer. with 49,000 employees thats a high yearly tax influx for the government.

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60walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Cambridge,
I perused the data you forwarded and the $1.05 figure was for FY2005. What year was it that GM and Chrysler were bailed out, anyway? Prior years, such as in the 1990's, Ohio received less than a dollar per dollar. The best reading is from the U.S. Census publication that indicates for FY2009, Ohio was below the national average in per capita in federal funds received. It is also informative as to what this federal "aid" actually comprises because quite a lot of spending that is done in the states is not included in those figures.

You see, figures can be twisted to fit a particular argument if you work at it long enough. Remember, figures don't lie but liars can figure.

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61cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

walter...Your opinions are correct and the data is wrong.

Your taxes run the country and loaned money for the American auto companies.

America and the Valley would be better off without the hundreds of millions of dollars GM and Lordstown brings into the Valley.

America and the Valley would be better off if all of those American auto workers were on unemployment instead of paying taxes and spending money in their communities.

The United States government has been making business loans for generations. The obvious problem with this loan is that a portion of the workers are commie socialist union thugs. Better the American Auto industry fails than decent paying jobs are saved. Thanks for helping me understand teabagger/republican way of thinking.

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62walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

cambridge,
Now, don't change your accusation. I merely pointed out to you that your data was from FY2005, which was a few years before the auto bailout. You continue to say that Ohio taxpayers received $1.05 for every $1.00 in taxes from the federal govt so we are supposed to thank the donor states for bailing out the "Ohio" auto industry. I am not saying the data is wrong but that it doesn't correlate very well to the situation. I am pleased that the Lordstown workers have their jobs and they appear to make a fine product. But, I won't buy another GM product until Uncle Sam is made whole by them.

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63cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

walter.....I searched Google and that was the data that was available. I provided what was available. If you have data that says something different or is more current, post it.

You can call me a liar if you want but those web sites aren't mine, I just found them on line and posted them. So far all we have is the data I posted and the data you didn't.

If you claim that Ohio gets less federal dollars than it pays in taxes, good, it's about time Ohio and every other state actually contributes.

Since you're going to boycott GM how about the oil companies making record profits quarter after quarter that avoid paying taxes and receive tax credits payed for by the bottom 97%, are you going to boycott them too? The money for GM is a loan. The money for the oil companies is a gift.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...

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64ytown11(2 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Why is the government allowing huge bonuses to anyone associated with GM when the taxpayers have yet to be paid back for saving every GM employee's job?

Sorry, but no one at any bailed out company,from banks to auto manufacturers, should get a penny more in raises or bonuses until the taxpayers are 100% repaid. That goes for every level of the business, including union workers.

Frankly, I almost want to puke when I hear union members associated with GM talking about how they deserve their bonuses and such because of what they sacrificed. The one thing that did not have to sacrifice was their job ... and that had nothing to do with any of their own actions.

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65walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

cambridge,
As I recall from my investigation of oil company taxes, the only special break that they receive as oil companies is a depletion tax allowance. All of the rest of their breaks are the same as any American company that operates in and on foreign lands, such as GE. It's just that oil companies are able to obtain high profit since they provide items that have high demand. Believe me, I'm no fan of the multinational corporations as I do believe their greed and excess hurts this country.

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66casper77(136 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

It's funny how the people who read the tribune are so anti union or against anybody doing better then themself but the people who read the Vindy are happy to see positive things happen in the Valley even if it didn't happen to them. What Great People we have here

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67BabaGhanoush(106 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Cambridge:
" how about the oil companies making record profits quarter after quarter that avoid paying taxes and receive tax credits payed for by the bottom 97%, are you going to boycott them too?"

Here's a graph that will surprise you.

http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/im...

The second largest part of a gallon of gas is Federal, State and Local taxes, which are about twice as much as the "record" profits that you are decrying.

The profit margins of the oil industry are near the bottom.
The top three are Tobacco, Pharmaceuticals and Computers.
Gonna boycott them?
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/up...

The fact is, the oil companies pay far more in taxes than the take in profits.
The oil companies go through a lot of expense to make their 8 or 10 cents on the dollar.
And the government spends ZERO to collect their "share" of the gas dollar, eh?

We have 300 years of oil in the US. Why are we paying foreigners for the privilege of filling up our gas tanks?

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68BabaGhanoush(106 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

One last thing, Cambridge, since you promoting the profitability of Government Motors, why are you defaming the same profitability of the oil companies?

Without oil, your precious Cruze wouldn't get out of your garage.

One more last thing, 90% of the world's oil is controlled by Governments such as Putin, Chavez, Mexico and your friends the Saudi Princes.
Maybe what you are really saying is that Obama should get in line with them and take over the oil business as he did with the auto industry?

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69cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Baba....The facts are that the oil companies are making record profits quarter after quarter. Do you make more money quarter after quarter? Do you know anyone or any other industry that makes record profits quarter after quarter and receives tax credits from the middle class year after year?

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70BabaGhanoush(106 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Cambridge:
"The facts are that the oil companies are making record profits quarter after quarter."

Cite some sources please.

What tax credits are you talking about?

Cite them as well.

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71cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Baba....Here you go, next time you should try Google, there are pages of the same information everyone else seems to already know. While you're at it do a search on the latest trillion dollar war for oil, it was called Iraq.

http://mccaskill.senate.gov/?p=press_...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byG-JW...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/high-g...

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/oil-c...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...

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72BabaGhanoush(106 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Press release with no specifics:
http://mccaskill.senate.gov/?p=press_...

"A proposal by U.S. Senator Claire McCaskill that would end certain tax breaks"

What "tax breaks" are those?

"The legislation would have closed tax loopholes for the largest five oil companies."

What "tax loopholes" are those?
And why stop at five?

"Meanwhile, oil companies are pocketing billions of dollars per year in giveaways from taxpayers"

Of course, she did not name any and neither can you.

That's number one.
More after dinner.

Your move,
thanks for playing.

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73cambridge(2918 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Baba....you're clearly not in touch with reality so I'm going to leave in your own little world, just you and the voices in your head.

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74BabaGhanoush(106 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Cambridge:
"Baba....you're clearly not in touch with reality"

Typical liberal debating technique:
When you cannot answer the question, you insult, demean and degrade your opponent.

Maybe I'll call her office tomorrow and see if I get any answers from her, eh?

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75BabaGhanoush(106 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Cambridge:
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byG-JW..."

This one is painful to watch as Pelosi, thankfully the ex-speaker, continuously and deliberately confuses subsidies with legitimate tax deductions.
Having found out what some of them are and all manufacturing companies are entitled to them.
The oil companies deduct approximately $4 billion off of the cost of doing business.
That's about the same as corn farmers who get direct subsidies from the government.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/05...

From the Rachel Madcow show:
"Rachel Madcow explains how the House Republicans have once again voted to protect taxpayer subsidies to big oil, **the most profitable industry in human history**. From the May 5th, 2011 edition of The Rachel Maddow Show."

Once again lying through her teeth as all liberals do:

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/up...

The top three are pharmaceuticals, alcohol and tobacco and computers at roughly 20 cents on the dollar while oil is at 5.7 cents.

Most profitable? Hardly.

You need to get in touch with reality as well as telling the truth.

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76legend33(169 comments)posted 2 years, 5 months ago

Meanwhile in Mahoning County....crickets and tumbleweed!

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