facebooktwitterRSS
- Advertisement -
  • Most Commentedmost commented up
  • Most Emailedmost emailed up
  • Popularmost popular up
- Advertisement -
 

Showdown on Issue 2


Published: Wed, November 2, 2011 @ 12:01 a.m.

RELATED: • Misinformation distorts measure, Kasich tells crowd

• Union workers in public, private sectors forge alliance to repeal SB 5

• Struthrs council approves union contrcts ahead of vote on SB 5

By Ashley Luthern

aluthern@vindy.com

GIRARD

Issue 2 opponents

wanted Gov. John Kasich, who was speaking at the same time in Hanoverton, to hear their cries.

“We are Mahoning Valley proud and Mahoning Valley strong,” shouted hundreds of people Tuesday at the Mahoning Country Club.

Mahoning County Democratic Party Chairman David Betras led the call-and-response effort, telling opponents of Issue 2 that they need volunteers and they need to get out the vote.

“Get skin in the game,” he said. “You take their carcass to the polls and make them vote.”

Betras, together with Dennis Johnson and Dan Polivka, Democratic party chairmen in Columbiana and Trumbull counties, respectively, organized the event to rally

volunteers.

The event was open to the public but organizers asked attendees to volunteer for one hour on the phones or go door-to-door in opposition to the issue, which is a referendum on Senate Bill 5, a law that restricts collective bargaining for public employees.

Harold Wilson, sporting a red shirt with “SB 5” crossed out on it, is one of those volunteers.

Wilson retired after 37 years of teaching in Austintown and said he’s disappointed that the number of people who vote is declining and that some teachers aren’t actively opposing Issue 2.

“They need to get active and put a face on it,” he said.

Wilson vehemently opposes Issue 2.

“I am tired of cuts in education and attacks on educators and attacks on police and firefighters,” he said.

He called Kasich “totally out of touch” and said “there were a few speed bumps along the way” in the effort to make Senate Bill 5 law, referencing the governor’s comment earlier this year to “get on the bus or get run over.”

“The bottom line is you have no power to negotiate [under SB 5]. It’s a take-it or leave-it type of deal,” Wilson said.

Several state legislators and the Democratic Party chairmen spoke at the event.

Polivka said public worker unions are “not the reason Ohio’s budget is in dire straights” and that Issue 2 only reinforces who is in charge: “big business, big lobbyists and ... big campaign contributors.”

State Sen. Joe Schiavoni, D-33rd, of Canfield, told the near capacity crowd of about 500 that he gets one specific question about Issue 2 every day.

“People say ‘I like parts of it but I think it went too far.’ I tell them you have to vote no because it’s all or nothing. The negotiations that were supposed to happen, never happened. It’s disingenuous for [Republicans] to say [otherwise],” Schiavoni said.

That lack of negotiation, Schiavoni said, points to a larger problem of legislation not being properly vetted.

If an issue affects all Ohioans, then lawmakers need to engage all Ohioans before creating a law, he said.


Comments

1AnotherAverageCitizen(1175 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

500 to rid us of sb5

200 at kasick rally.

sorry sb5 loses..

BYE BYE sb5

Vote NO on issue 2

Suggest removal:

2UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

***** Yes on issue 2 *****

Don't let the greedy selfish public employees dictate to you! Yes on issue 2 brings fairness to the Ohio negotiation table with citizens having a seat. Paying 10% toward your pension and 15% toward your healthcare is very very fair compared to what those of us in the private sector pay.

Suggest removal:

3VindyPost(436 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

******************************************************************

WE ARE OHIO.

Vote NO on Issue 2 !

*********************************************************************

Suggest removal:

4WarrenRicheyKid(167 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Even Kasich expects SB5 to be repealed. Good riddance to a bad piece of legislation which tried to fix the blame for the financial crisis on public employees and not on the out of control banks.

Suggest removal:

5timOthy(802 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

I'm voting No ! But I do expect concession fron you public servants. Sick time use it or lose it ! Pension more contributed from Servants. And Insurance more Contribution's there too ! Now that has been said how does one pay more ? Well negotiate for more money on your wages to handel the increase. Look at the Building Trades Package it could be a model for you guys .

Suggest removal:

6grand4dad(196 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

I am sick of those who try to portray public employees as greedy and selfish. They are not. Most are middle class folks struggling to make ends meet just like everyone else. The greedy and selfish are those at the top of both public and private sector. SB5 does nothing to address that kind of abuse, like in the Governor's own office. Governor is trying to use this group of our relatives, neigbors, and friends as a scapegoat to pin all our financial woes on. Don't fall for it.
VOTE NO ON ISSUE 2!

Suggest removal:

7Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

We have given concessions for the past 5+ years. We do pay 15%+ towards our medical. We do pay 10%+ towards our retirement. We also pay taxes. We don't get 60K for working 1 day a week Mr. Johnson. We put our lives on the line.

Vote No on Issue 2

Suggest removal:

8Politico(27 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

YES on Issue 5. Even FDR warned about the problems with public employee unions. Every state that has financial problems is due to public employee pension funds and their unsustainable costs. I've actually read all of Issue 5. It does NOT prevent collective bargaining. It DOES stop public unions from demanding that a set number of employees be hired. That's the job of the elected officials, NOT the job of the unions. It DOES make senority NOT the only reason to keep employees when lay offs have to be made. Since everyone complains about the quality of teachers, SB5 at least states that seniority cannot be the only reason for retention. It DOES require those public employees who are currently not paying a share of their benefits to do so. It DOES eliminate the issue of minimal class sizes. I never attended a class where there were less than at least 30 to 40 kids in the class. I went to school in the 1960, and the SAT and ACT test scores have never been that high. The modern "educators" have admitted that they have dumbed down the college tests since the 1990s when political "correctness" set in. The gimmick of setting class size has turned into backdoor method that forces school systems to hire more teachers (and union members) than they may need too, can afford, or want to. That IS NOT A UNION'S perogative. My taxes have increase significantly over the past few years, and much has been driven by school levies and the need to keep feeding the public employee maggots on the carcass of the almost dead taxpayer. I will NOT vote for ANY new taxes until I see lead and mean government and school boards on a very strict protein diet.

Suggest removal:

9AnotherAverageCitizen(1175 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

""That's the job of the elected officials, NOT the job of the unions. ""

No its called working WITH the workers that go out and risk their lives. Number of workers should not just be decided by an accountant sitting behind a desk. Those that are actually that go out and do the job, should have a say in how that job is performed. Like the old saying, go to the source.

Quit using the FDR card, it means nothing in 2011.

BYE BYE sb5

Vote NO on issue 2

Suggest removal:

10jasoninohio(119 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

“The bottom line is you have no power to negotiate [under SB 5]. It’s a take-it or leave-it type of deal,” Wilson said.

-----------------------------------------------

Really? 100% not true. If you don't like what management has to say, you can always strike. That's what unions have done for years isn't it? USeing the fear of strike to get more even though production does not improve.

Issue 2 is about equality for all workers, union and non-union.

VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!!!

Suggest removal:

11SAVEOURCOUNTRY(470 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Jason IN ohio,
If public worker don't like what management offers, they can't strike or they surly won't when the law allows management to fine them twice the amount the EARN daily. Basicly, it makes strikes illegal

Bargaining doesn't exsist under SB5. Like what has been said. Its like getting a divorce and your mother-in-law is the Judge. How will that work out for you JASON. And every three years, you mother-in-law gets to look at the agreement and change it how she see fit. How's that going to look for ya?

If they get thier way here, don't fear, they are coming after thwe private sector workers. Hope you all like making Walmart wages becuase that's were we are heading if you let them.

VOTE NO ON SB5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Suggest removal:

12jasoninohio(119 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Saveourcountry-

Strikes should be illegal. How on earth can anyone who is a teacher strike? I thought being a teacher was supposed to be about the kids, so how can kids learn if teachers are out on strike? They can't.

VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!!

Suggest removal:

13RustOnMyBelt(114 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

In a perfect world they would hand out buttons and car stickers that say" I voted FOR Issue 2" after voting so all neighbors, customers, friends and relatives can see what kind of individual they are dealing with. There was once a time when Americans would look at how someone was treated and demand that their employer begin treating them with dignity in a more humane fashion as well. Now, we see what others have at work and we want to tear them down instead of raising our own work standards to a similar level. Want to work in Russia? Just wait , Russia is coming to us comrades.Lets all go down together.

Suggest removal:

14mark(60 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Lack of discussion is an understatement. Even when their own party's representatives opposed the bill, they simply kicked them off their respective committees at the last minute and replaced them with representatives who would vote in favor of the bill as it was written. The authors of SB5 and the state Republican party have shown no genuine concern for alternative views and have every intention of "getting on the bus" and running over anyone who isn't in support of their goals to take away what limited power and influence working-class people have ever managed to acquire over the past century.

This, along with the proposed sale/lease of the Turnpike and privatization of state services and departments is just the beginning. If this party has their way, the State of Ohio will essentially become a for-profit enterprise that only exists to funnel tax dollars into the pockets of the already-wealthy by 2016. What scares me most is that ordinary middle-class Ohioans actually vote in favor of ballot issues like SB5 and Issue 3, against their own self-interest, time and time again.

Suggest removal:

15AnotherAverageCitizen(1175 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

======== ! ! A L E R T ! ! =======

kasick is "last minute" camouflaging and down playing the bill. We've
been well-informed, read between the lines, discern black and white.

Stick it to him on Tues. November 8th!

BYE BYE sb5

Vote NO on issue 2.

Reality sets in, his numbers
continue to deeply fall.

Suggest removal:

16bad(23 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

What the public employees get so should the governor and his cabinet. I want to vote on their health care, wages, trips etc. Bet they wouldn't like that. To the people voting yes I would like to vote on your raise in the private sector?I think the price of cars, groceries, houses, or wherever you work in the private sector are too high so I think you should make less so my expenses are lower. Please wear a supporter pin so you can look the next policeman or fireman in the eyes after they save you so they know who turned their backs on them.

Suggest removal:

17SAVEOURCOUNTRY(470 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

JAsoninOhio,

You are not old enoug to remember the fight teachers once fought for kids. The one that has sued this state billions in court costs over the last 30 years. A vote yes will send us back to those days when teachers hire the dave Betras of the world to fight the state on unfair labor costs.
VOTE NO ON SB5 to save Ohio from criminal activity of those who lie about what is written is SB5.....thats the idiot Kasick

Suggest removal:

18jfuze0905(72 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

So, I did a little research on a couple of local teachers on the site: http://tos.ohio.gov/Teacher_Salary, and you may be a littel shocked to see the results...

Teacher 1:
$69,080 - annual salary
7.33 hours worked per day
183 days worked per year
$45,592.80 - yearly pension estimate
$106,434.37 - pro-rated salary based upon 2080 hours per year
$28,152 - max social security payout

Teacher 2:
$91,000 - annual salary
8 hours worked per day
260 days worked per year
$60,060 - yearly pension estimate
$140,207.41 - pro-rated salary based upon 2080 hours per year
$28,152 - max social security payout

Now I'm not saying that teachers aren't worth every penny they make, but look at the difference between the pension and what Joe average citizen receives. This equates to a difference of approximately $17,500 per year. Add the fact that most private citizens not only pay into SS, but also dedicate between 10 and 20 percent of their gross income to a 401(k) to potentially receive $45,000 per year in retirement savings. Therefore, Joe average citizen is paying between 16 and 26 percent (plus the 6 percent the company pays) to equate the 10 percent that teachers are paying...which leaves a difference of 12 percent on the low end and 22 percent on the high end.

Also, do teachers retire after 30 years? If so, that makes the average retirement age 52, while the average citizen will retire between ages 65 and 72 which boasts a difference of 13 to 20 years...

Now let's perform a little calculation:

13 years X $45,000 = $585,000
13 years X $17,500 = $227,500

The difference being received by a teacher on the low end of the spectrum is $357,500 over 13 years or $27,500 per year. The difference alone is 86 percent of the Private Sector Yearly Wage in Mahoning county in 2009 (http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/bette...), and that's just the difference....

Now let's take a look at some other figures from http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/bette... the Median Household Income in Mahoning County in 2009 was $39,339. Going back to our low end of the spectrum teacher, $45,000 is the annual pension...this is a difference of $5,661 greater than the Median "Household" Income, as well as a difference of $13,550 greater than the average private sector wage in 2009...

Let's take a look at the what the state pension plan is paying over the course of retirement (now remember, this is only for the low end of the spectrum teacher). The average life expectancy in Ohio (http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/us...) is 76.2 years.

Let's subtract the average retirement age of 52 from the average life expectancy of 76.2 years (we'll round to 76 for this example).

76 - 52 = 24 years
24 years X $45,000 = $1,080,000

$1,080,000!!! I've just retired at age 52 as a millionaire!!!

Suggest removal:

19doubled(210 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Politico -- you said this..."My taxes have increase significantly over the past few years..." YOU'RE A LIAR.

Suggest removal:

20doubled(210 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

jasoninohio --- you said..."“If you don't like what management has to say, you can always strike. That's what unions have done for years isn't it? "

A bit of advice my completely uninformed friend, almost all critical state/county employees have NO-STRIKE clauses in their contracts...the reason for that is so you taxpayers, particularly the ones on this site who are so grateful for the protections you receive from your public servants, won't have to worry about being robbed or having your house burn to the ground b/c the public employees went on strike due to a disagreement with management. So you're dead wrong on this one....get some proper information before you start spouting off about the ability of a public servant to actually negotiate for safe conditions and fair wages.
BUt hey, maybe if you get what you want and sb5 passes -- you can have the privilege of worrying when the cops and firefighters go on strike. No contracts, will mean they can strike, right? I mean, you can't have it both ways.

Suggest removal:

21L0L(661 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

@jfuze0905, I have a question. If the public sector, as you put it, can retire at the age of 52 as a millionaire then why arent there hoards of masses running to work in the public field? It just seems to me that some private sector employees are a little jealous and have the mentality of "I want what they have". Well, when you do the job that they have then you can get paid that too. Until then dont b!tch. In the private sector does someone working at Mcdonalds make the same as someone working at GM? NOPE. Do the Mcdonald workers b!tch because the GM workers got a $9k bonus this year? Maybe, but they dont do the same job as them so there is no reason for them to complain, just like you.

Suggest removal:

22fd6636(255 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Ive read posts calling for reform to our pension and health care system as it stands today. Fine. IF KASICH WOULD OF MET AT THE TABLE WITH UNIONS AND PUBLIC WORKERS, THIS COULD OF ALL BEEN AVOIDED!! But remember what our new govenor stated in February, and I quote: "GET ON THE BUS, OR GET RUN OVER BY IT!!!" To me, sounded like Hitler did not want to have talks with any one who was not radical like himself.Fast forward to November 1st., in the peoples paper, he was quoted as saying" Well, with all the "hubbub" we got our budget passed with little interference because of SB5!!! " Well, Sounds to me like SB5 was nothing more than a "smokescreen" to get this damaging, destructive bill passed. And this is what I dont get: Your man comes off as sounding as if SB5 gets defeated(and it will) that he really don"t care, cause the budget did!!! When will you goats (followers who will follow their leader off a cliff) realize when your leader gets done "using" you, and your left holding whats left of Ohio's bag, that well, maybe kasich was lying, then its too late, the destruction is done. Don't allow this 300 page bill of lies and loopholes that only lawyers can deciper pass. VOTE NO ON ISSUE 2!! Very dangerous piece of legislation that will do more harm to cities and towns than we will ever realize!!!!

Suggest removal:

23Oop81269(16 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Dear Politico and Jfuze0905. Let me give you some info directly from SB5. If an employee is SUSPECTED of taking part in a strike he forfits TWICE his daily pay for those days that he is SUSPECTED of having taken part in the strike, but, it is up to the employee to PROVE that he did not take part in the strike (what if he was in the hospital) and has to sign a sworn affidavit and go to court to get his money back. 12 People APPOINTED by the Governor, President of the Senate, and the Speaker of the house; all of these get paid out of THE SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND and reimbursed for all "operating expenses paid for out of THE SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND and according to Ohio Revised Code 124.15 which means that the can make as much as $32.00 per hour for a 40 hour week and they don't pay for their health care because they are state appointees and get it for FREE! (2) Members shall receive compensation fixed pursuant to division
(J)(A) of section 124.15 of the Revised Code and shall be reimbursed from
the school employees health care fund for actual and necessary expenses
incurred in the performance of their official duties as members of the board. THEN there are another 18 bureaucrats appointed to watch over these 12, all with the same free ride. Oh and I almost forgot, They also get to hire their own aides and these get paid for out of the SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND. How does any of this sound right to you?

Suggest removal:

24jfuze0905(72 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

@LOL - I really did try to break the mathematics down to like a 6th grade level to prove a point, and if you go back and re-read it, you might just understand what I'm talking about.

I am a little unclear as to how many years a teacher must work in order to retire, hence I posed the 30 years as a question.

The public sector is a very hard market to get into. Those screaming that if Issue 2 passes, nepotism and cronyism will be the norm (I've really always thought that was the norm).

I am jealous of no one's job or profession, they chose theirs' and I chose mine. The exception is, however, that I can speak for myself and negotiate for me as necessary (I may be fired "at will", but I'm willing to accept that). Therefore, your point is lost because I do not have the "I want what they have" mentality.

What job do "they" have that I may strive to achieve? I spent 10 years in active service of our Country, and have been deployed numerous times to areas that were awarded with an extra $200 a month for hazardous duty pay...so I think I've probably done a job that was much, much more trying and hard, and I received no where near the compensation "they" do today...guess I can bitch about that...

So, I think it may be safe to assume that either you, or someone close to you works at GM because I, and probably most of the other "private" sector employees didn't know they got a $9,000 bonus. However, I for one, do think that working at McDonald's is pretty much on the same level as working at GM, but that's just my humble opinion.

The one thing that you did fail to mention is that I do, in fact, have reason to complain when the numbers are written in ink and the tax base is declining, and mathematics will, time and time again, prove that what is in place now will not be able to be fiscally maintained much longer.

Did I miss anything? If so, I'd be glad to further educate you, but only on my dime...

Suggest removal:

25jasoninohio(119 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Save our country- Teacher do not need a union. The reason teachers hide behind the unions is so they can get away with not doing their job. What other reason is there.

I work for a non-union company. Twice a year I sit down with my boss and get a review. If my review is not up to par, I can be terminated. Under shady union rules, management is forced into keeping sub par workers due to tenure issues.

Facts are, if students are failing, the teachers should be getting fired. Teachers are supposed to teach, not whine and hide behind union rhetoric.

Vote Yes on Issue 2!!

Suggest removal:

26jfuze0905(72 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

@Oop81269 - I'm not stating that I'm for or against Issue 2, because I haven't made up my mind how I going to vote yet, and frankly, it's no one's damn business but mine.

You statement that "if an employee is SUSPECTED of taking part in a strike he forfits TWICE his daily pay for those days that he is SUSPECTED of having taken part in the strike, but, it is up to the employee to PROVE that he did not take part in the strike (what if he was in the hospital) and has to sign a sworn affidavit and go to court to get his money back." holds no merit whatsoever, if said employee is innocent, said employee should have no problem doing so. I'm actually against any type of strike, especially in the state of economy that the Country is in today, you should feel a sense of pride to even have a job (and trust me, I did lose my job and was unemployed for 9 months before taking a job that pays 50% of what I was making).

While taking into consideration your next statement, "12 People APPOINTED by the Governor, President of the Senate, and the Speaker of the house; all of these get paid out of THE SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND and reimbursed for all "operating expenses paid for out of THE SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND and according to Ohio Revised Code 124.15 which means that the can make as much as $32.00 per hour for a 40 hour week and they don't pay for their health care because they are state appointees and get it for FREE! (2) Members shall receive compensation fixed pursuant to division (J)(A) of section 124.15 of the Revised Code and shall be reimbursed from
the school employees health care fund for actual and necessary expenses incurred in the performance of their official duties as members of the board. THEN there are another 18 bureaucrats appointed to watch over these 12, all with the same free ride. Oh and I almost forgot, They also get to hire their own aides and these get paid for out of the SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND. How does any of this sound right to you?", I just read ORC 124.15, and the subsections referred to and I completely missed any reference to what you are stating, therefore, I cannot comment.

Suggest removal:

27L0L(661 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

@jfuze, Ya I understood what you're talking about. And I didnt assume you knew a teacher worked for 30 years because that would have meant I assumed you knew what you were talking about. But lets just say you are right. A teacher works for 30 years. They sure as hell dont retire as a millionaire.

And as far as the GM bonuses go if you really did follow what was going on the bonuses were reported by vindy a few days ago. They just received $5k added to the $4k they received a while ago and that adds up to $9k. And again, dont blame the public sector. Its bad spending all over the place. So you should be able to vote on what happens to a public worker but they cant vote on what happens to your sector? Doesnt seem fair. How about you blame the big businesses in the private sector that employ lobbyists and make major campaign contributions that influence how this state is being ran. How about you question how the legislatures inflate their own salary and pensions by passing laws that work in their favor. If youre gonna point a finger make sure you point it all the ones responsible, not the scapegoats.

Suggest removal:

28TonyL(44 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

The Unions shut down the Sheet & Tube with Youngstown's manufacturing base and now, they have their sites on shuting down Ohio's school system.

Yes, when you live by the sword, you die by the sword. The whole world can now see Gus Hall's, The Power and the Movement, still runs long and deep in the Ohio Teaher's Union and in the Baby Boomers of Youngstown.

Suggest removal:

29Oop81269(16 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

OK, here is something to actually read.
At the very least make an educated vote and don't be one of the "sheepeople" blindly following a political party. Here is a link to all 304 pages.
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload...
Project Vote Smart condensed version.
http://www.votesmart.org/election_bal...

And this page will link you to all the ballot issues in Ohio.
http://www.votesmart.org/election_bal...

This page allows you to look up all the Ohio Revised Codes that the are talking about.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc

Copy and paste these links in your browser. Get informed. Make an informed vote!

Suggest removal:

30jfuze0905(72 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

@LOL - If you understood what I was talking about, then you would understand that, while even though the teacher utilized in the example doesn't have a tangible million dollars, the teacher has a tangible million dollars...this is public record, and yes, that teacher will retire a millionaire. The average citizen is guaranteed a maximum benefit of about $28,000 per year, beginning around age 65, and this amounts to no where near a million dollars.

Good thing you didn't assume that I knew what I was talking, because I do know what I'm talking about...so, let's say that I'm right, can you disprove my math? I would probably think not, since math is universal (and I learned algebra way before I learned diff eq).

"And as far as the GM bonuses go if you really did follow what was going on the bonuses were reported by vindy a few days ago. They just received $5k added to the $4k they received a while ago and that adds up to $9k." I see here that you can do basic math, however your logic between the public sector employees and those that work at GM is fuzzy. GM makes a product for sale and profit, the public service provides a service based upon income from the public. When the public can no longer afford to purchase an automobile, that industry has, as we've recently seen, two options. Option 1 - fail, or Option 2 - get bailed out by the government. When the public can no longer afford public service, what options are there? My theory would be "fail", and I'm sure there are many who would agree with me on that.

I'm not blaming the public sector for any of this, all I'm stating is that the economy can no longer fiscally support the benefits. I do believe that the majority of public services are very well warranted.

You make a blank statement about whether or not I should be able to vote on this. I really didn't have an opinion on that until now, and yes, the consumer, in this instance, should be able to chose what happens in that sector, since the consumer votes on my sector daily by choosing to patronize me or purchase my wares. I hope that clarified whether or not where the fairness is, but I learned a long time ago that life isn't fair, and it is what we make of it.

"How about you blame the big businesses in the private sector that employ lobbyists and make major campaign contributions that influence how this state is being ran. How about you question how the legislatures inflate their own salary and pensions by passing laws that work in their favor. If youre gonna point a finger make sure you point it all the ones responsible, not the scapegoats." I've never pointed a finger, I based my entire statement on fact, however, you must realize that lobbyists work both sides of the aisle, locally, state wide, and nationally, and as long as we, the people, continue to elect the same people over and over again without recourse for their actions, nothing will ever change.

Suggest removal:

31jfuze0905(72 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Here's the link to the that references ORC Sections related to ORC 124.15 as proposed by the 129th General Assembly, i.e. SB 5:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/search/124.15

I do agree that being an educated voter is being a smart voter. By reading the revisions and not listening to the rhetoric (on either side) makes you an educated voter.

P.S. - I looked at the links above, and by reading the pro and con arguments for Issue 2 forced me to read the rest of the document because six statements on each side gives a very convoluted picture of the subject. I've written abstracts that had much more substance than these arguments.

Suggest removal:

32Oop81269(16 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

TonyL. Sheet and Tube shutting down had a lot more to do with rising EPA standards that were impossible to impose on such old equipment and the influx of inferior (cheap) imported steel from the Asian continents than it did with the unions. I have seen pay stubs from my grandfather and from my father-in-law going back to the early 70's and I can tell you they were making less an hour than people on minimum wage do today working at McDonald's!

Suggest removal:

33lilgandee(103 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Hey lol a worker at Mc Donalds n a Gm workers arent paid from taxpayers money. I could careless about that but you wanna say us private sector want safety from fires and crime but dont want to pay, you want to be heroes for putting your lives on the line paid what your worth-well a true hero is one who does a deed unselfishly. Those who dont come home from war and hurt there are true heroes-My vote is for Sb5/Issue 2 and no on Issue 29, yes to the school renewal levy. Good luckto all on 11-8. I typed on my small phone pad so no caps n etc. I am educated but take your jabs.

Suggest removal:

34AnotherAverageCitizen(1175 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Why is it when teachers pay union dues, teabaggers say they are paying unuin dues with taxpayers money, but when teachers go to Mcdonalds it is not tax payer money? Which way is it folks? Make up your mind.

Why is it that when a business under they always blame the union for causing it? But many businesses go under that have nothing to do with unions? What do you baggers blame it on then?

Suggest removal:

35AnotherAverageCitizen(1175 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

oops, says ""Copy and paste these links into your browser. Get informed. Make an informed vote!""

Thank you for the information..........

Now I am sure I will vote NO on issue 2

Vote informed....... VOTE NO issue 2

Suggest removal:

36SAVEOURCOUNTRY(470 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

JAsonin ohio,
Wrong again. Teachers can be fired with just cuase, that being tenured teachers. Non tenured teachers can be fired for no reason given, Taht's why unions are needed to STOP croneyism. SB5 brings back Croneyism and the spoils system. If I win and you didn't support me, YOU"RE FIRED. It happened all the time.
I've seen this happen where six great teachers were fired in Youngstown because they could be, yet hired in the 'burb's. 4 of them became teachers of the years, One in Boardman, another in POland and Canfield and a fourth in Crestview. That's why unions are needed. If you don't like working for a non-union boss get one started. I know of no Lazy teachers that are tenured.

JFUSE0905,
My wife is a teacher in Ohio. How does she get Social surcuity? When you stated she can get up to the max at 28,000 dollars annuallly, how can we get it? Especially since its not taken out of her paycheck. TEACHERS in OHIO cannot collect SS nor can they collect off of a spouse. This has been the case since 1986 or 1987.

ONCE AGAIN FOLKS tow more lies out there in cyber space, teachers in the public sector cannot and will not get SS, just those in the private schools can because they don't pay into STRS.

Suggest removal:

37jfuze0905(72 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

@SOC - I am aware that teachers do not get social security, I was making the statement that the maximum SS payout would be approximately $28,000.

I tried to present this example in the simplest form, and those that have read it have taken everything out of context. The example theoretically presents what the longevity cost of retirement for a "public" employee is, and how it does not relate to what the average tax payer would receive in retirement benefits.

If you chose to take a moment and look at the link that I presented (from the Secretary of State's of website), you will see that this is "not a lie out there in cyberspace".

Also, if my wife was a teacher in Ohio, I would have her proofread my comments before posting blatant spelling and grammatical errors, and then stating that my was a teacher in Ohio...See how I got off point there?

Again, be informed and educated, by reading the Issue, not the pro and con drivel that obviously swayed AnotherAverageCitizen nor the advertisements on the tv or radio...

Suggest removal:

38jasoninohio(119 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Save our country- I know that teachers, even tenured techers, can be fired for just cause. But the problem is that it is a very slow process. Sometimes takes 2-3 years. WHile that process goes on techers sit home, doing nothing and getting paid my tax dollars to do so.

Unions make it harder for management to keep good workers and get rid of bad ones. That is a fact.

Look at the number of union workers today, compared to 50 years ago. The reason the numbers are going down is becasue people are understanding that unions are bad for business.

VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!!!

Suggest removal:

39bad(23 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

@jasoninohio-
Teachers should be fired for not teaching kids?? Really?? you must not be a parent, here is a reality check for you. I am a parent and it is my responsibility to teach them with the teacher. I know they can't do it alone with 23 or so students in a room. If parents are not helping their kid then they will get left behind. I think some parents just don't care and the blame gets pushed on the teachers. The parent should be held responsible first then the teacher. I bet if our taxes for schools were based on grades you would see more students getting better grades. It would force lazy parents to get off their as#es and help their kid. AND FYI I AM NOT A TEACHER I just deal with common sense.

Suggest removal:

40LtMacGowan(643 comments)posted 2 years, 11 months ago

Im just glad that in a very short time Issue 2 and 3 will go down in flames and we can move on to being divided over another issue.

Suggest removal:

41commoncitizen(961 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

jfuze, all excellent comments AND factual information. The problem is that the ones AGAINST SB5 will not listen or understand what you are trying to inform them about.
Vote YES on SB5!

Suggest removal:

42ufosd(17 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

I voted today....and voted against SB 5....Only because the Republican Party has been a anti union party for years....I have seen the wages of the middle class destroyed and decimated...by corporate greed.....so while unions have their issues too...I feel we need them to protect us against the sweat shop mentality of those who profit much from our labors.....if you are happy with ten dollars an hour and no benefits you may choose to disagree.....but I for one have seen what hardship that places on many....just saying....

Suggest removal:

43Stan(9923 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

I have seen the middle class destroyed by high energy costs brought about by the liberals domestic do not drill policy .

Suggest removal:


News
Opinion
Entertainment
Sports
Marketplace
Classifieds
Records
Discussions
Community
Help
Forms
Neighbors

HomeTerms of UsePrivacy StatementAdvertiseStaff DirectoryHelp
© 2014 Vindy.com. All rights reserved. A service of The Vindicator.
107 Vindicator Square. Youngstown, OH 44503

Phone Main: 330.747.1471 • Interactive Advertising: 330.740.2955 • Classified Advertising: 330.746.6565
Sponsored Links: Vindy Wheels | Vindy Jobs | Vindy Homes | Pittsburgh International Airport