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Showdown on Issue 2

Published: Wed, November 2, 2011 @ 12:01 a.m.

RELATED: • Misinformation distorts measure, Kasich tells crowd

• Union workers in public, private sectors forge alliance to repeal SB 5

• Struthrs council approves union contrcts ahead of vote on SB 5

By Ashley Luthern



Issue 2 opponents

wanted Gov. John Kasich, who was speaking at the same time in Hanoverton, to hear their cries.

“We are Mahoning Valley proud and Mahoning Valley strong,” shouted hundreds of people Tuesday at the Mahoning Country Club.

Mahoning County Democratic Party Chairman David Betras led the call-and-response effort, telling opponents of Issue 2 that they need volunteers and they need to get out the vote.

“Get skin in the game,” he said. “You take their carcass to the polls and make them vote.”

Betras, together with Dennis Johnson and Dan Polivka, Democratic party chairmen in Columbiana and Trumbull counties, respectively, organized the event to rally


The event was open to the public but organizers asked attendees to volunteer for one hour on the phones or go door-to-door in opposition to the issue, which is a referendum on Senate Bill 5, a law that restricts collective bargaining for public employees.

Harold Wilson, sporting a red shirt with “SB 5” crossed out on it, is one of those volunteers.

Wilson retired after 37 years of teaching in Austintown and said he’s disappointed that the number of people who vote is declining and that some teachers aren’t actively opposing Issue 2.

“They need to get active and put a face on it,” he said.

Wilson vehemently opposes Issue 2.

“I am tired of cuts in education and attacks on educators and attacks on police and firefighters,” he said.

He called Kasich “totally out of touch” and said “there were a few speed bumps along the way” in the effort to make Senate Bill 5 law, referencing the governor’s comment earlier this year to “get on the bus or get run over.”

“The bottom line is you have no power to negotiate [under SB 5]. It’s a take-it or leave-it type of deal,” Wilson said.

Several state legislators and the Democratic Party chairmen spoke at the event.

Polivka said public worker unions are “not the reason Ohio’s budget is in dire straights” and that Issue 2 only reinforces who is in charge: “big business, big lobbyists and ... big campaign contributors.”

State Sen. Joe Schiavoni, D-33rd, of Canfield, told the near capacity crowd of about 500 that he gets one specific question about Issue 2 every day.

“People say ‘I like parts of it but I think it went too far.’ I tell them you have to vote no because it’s all or nothing. The negotiations that were supposed to happen, never happened. It’s disingenuous for [Republicans] to say [otherwise],” Schiavoni said.

That lack of negotiation, Schiavoni said, points to a larger problem of legislation not being properly vetted.

If an issue affects all Ohioans, then lawmakers need to engage all Ohioans before creating a law, he said.


1AnotherAverageCitizen(1176 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

500 to rid us of sb5

200 at kasick rally.

sorry sb5 loses..


Vote NO on issue 2

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2UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

***** Yes on issue 2 *****

Don't let the greedy selfish public employees dictate to you! Yes on issue 2 brings fairness to the Ohio negotiation table with citizens having a seat. Paying 10% toward your pension and 15% toward your healthcare is very very fair compared to what those of us in the private sector pay.

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3VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago



Vote NO on Issue 2 !


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4WarrenRicheyKid(167 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Even Kasich expects SB5 to be repealed. Good riddance to a bad piece of legislation which tried to fix the blame for the financial crisis on public employees and not on the out of control banks.

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5timOthy(802 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

I'm voting No ! But I do expect concession fron you public servants. Sick time use it or lose it ! Pension more contributed from Servants. And Insurance more Contribution's there too ! Now that has been said how does one pay more ? Well negotiate for more money on your wages to handel the increase. Look at the Building Trades Package it could be a model for you guys .

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6grand4dad(208 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

I am sick of those who try to portray public employees as greedy and selfish. They are not. Most are middle class folks struggling to make ends meet just like everyone else. The greedy and selfish are those at the top of both public and private sector. SB5 does nothing to address that kind of abuse, like in the Governor's own office. Governor is trying to use this group of our relatives, neigbors, and friends as a scapegoat to pin all our financial woes on. Don't fall for it.

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7rocky14(762 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago


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8Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

We have given concessions for the past 5+ years. We do pay 15%+ towards our medical. We do pay 10%+ towards our retirement. We also pay taxes. We don't get 60K for working 1 day a week Mr. Johnson. We put our lives on the line.

Vote No on Issue 2

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9Politico(28 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

YES on Issue 5. Even FDR warned about the problems with public employee unions. Every state that has financial problems is due to public employee pension funds and their unsustainable costs. I've actually read all of Issue 5. It does NOT prevent collective bargaining. It DOES stop public unions from demanding that a set number of employees be hired. That's the job of the elected officials, NOT the job of the unions. It DOES make senority NOT the only reason to keep employees when lay offs have to be made. Since everyone complains about the quality of teachers, SB5 at least states that seniority cannot be the only reason for retention. It DOES require those public employees who are currently not paying a share of their benefits to do so. It DOES eliminate the issue of minimal class sizes. I never attended a class where there were less than at least 30 to 40 kids in the class. I went to school in the 1960, and the SAT and ACT test scores have never been that high. The modern "educators" have admitted that they have dumbed down the college tests since the 1990s when political "correctness" set in. The gimmick of setting class size has turned into backdoor method that forces school systems to hire more teachers (and union members) than they may need too, can afford, or want to. That IS NOT A UNION'S perogative. My taxes have increase significantly over the past few years, and much has been driven by school levies and the need to keep feeding the public employee maggots on the carcass of the almost dead taxpayer. I will NOT vote for ANY new taxes until I see lead and mean government and school boards on a very strict protein diet.

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10AnotherAverageCitizen(1176 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

""That's the job of the elected officials, NOT the job of the unions. ""

No its called working WITH the workers that go out and risk their lives. Number of workers should not just be decided by an accountant sitting behind a desk. Those that are actually that go out and do the job, should have a say in how that job is performed. Like the old saying, go to the source.

Quit using the FDR card, it means nothing in 2011.


Vote NO on issue 2

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11jasoninohio(119 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

“The bottom line is you have no power to negotiate [under SB 5]. It’s a take-it or leave-it type of deal,” Wilson said.


Really? 100% not true. If you don't like what management has to say, you can always strike. That's what unions have done for years isn't it? USeing the fear of strike to get more even though production does not improve.

Issue 2 is about equality for all workers, union and non-union.


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12jasoninohio(119 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago


Strikes should be illegal. How on earth can anyone who is a teacher strike? I thought being a teacher was supposed to be about the kids, so how can kids learn if teachers are out on strike? They can't.


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13peacelover(805 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Best post on this thread is #6 by Grand4dad.

NO on 2.

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14RustOnMyBelt(157 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

In a perfect world they would hand out buttons and car stickers that say" I voted FOR Issue 2" after voting so all neighbors, customers, friends and relatives can see what kind of individual they are dealing with. There was once a time when Americans would look at how someone was treated and demand that their employer begin treating them with dignity in a more humane fashion as well. Now, we see what others have at work and we want to tear them down instead of raising our own work standards to a similar level. Want to work in Russia? Just wait , Russia is coming to us comrades.Lets all go down together.

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15mark(60 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Lack of discussion is an understatement. Even when their own party's representatives opposed the bill, they simply kicked them off their respective committees at the last minute and replaced them with representatives who would vote in favor of the bill as it was written. The authors of SB5 and the state Republican party have shown no genuine concern for alternative views and have every intention of "getting on the bus" and running over anyone who isn't in support of their goals to take away what limited power and influence working-class people have ever managed to acquire over the past century.

This, along with the proposed sale/lease of the Turnpike and privatization of state services and departments is just the beginning. If this party has their way, the State of Ohio will essentially become a for-profit enterprise that only exists to funnel tax dollars into the pockets of the already-wealthy by 2016. What scares me most is that ordinary middle-class Ohioans actually vote in favor of ballot issues like SB5 and Issue 3, against their own self-interest, time and time again.

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16AnotherAverageCitizen(1176 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

======== ! ! A L E R T ! ! =======

kasick is "last minute" camouflaging and down playing the bill. We've
been well-informed, read between the lines, discern black and white.

Stick it to him on Tues. November 8th!


Vote NO on issue 2.

Reality sets in, his numbers
continue to deeply fall.

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17bad(23 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

What the public employees get so should the governor and his cabinet. I want to vote on their health care, wages, trips etc. Bet they wouldn't like that. To the people voting yes I would like to vote on your raise in the private sector?I think the price of cars, groceries, houses, or wherever you work in the private sector are too high so I think you should make less so my expenses are lower. Please wear a supporter pin so you can look the next policeman or fireman in the eyes after they save you so they know who turned their backs on them.

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18doubled(210 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Politico -- you said this..."My taxes have increase significantly over the past few years..." YOU'RE A LIAR.

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19doubled(210 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

jasoninohio --- you said..."“If you don't like what management has to say, you can always strike. That's what unions have done for years isn't it? "

A bit of advice my completely uninformed friend, almost all critical state/county employees have NO-STRIKE clauses in their contracts...the reason for that is so you taxpayers, particularly the ones on this site who are so grateful for the protections you receive from your public servants, won't have to worry about being robbed or having your house burn to the ground b/c the public employees went on strike due to a disagreement with management. So you're dead wrong on this one....get some proper information before you start spouting off about the ability of a public servant to actually negotiate for safe conditions and fair wages.
BUt hey, maybe if you get what you want and sb5 passes -- you can have the privilege of worrying when the cops and firefighters go on strike. No contracts, will mean they can strike, right? I mean, you can't have it both ways.

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20Oop81269(16 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Dear Politico and Jfuze0905. Let me give you some info directly from SB5. If an employee is SUSPECTED of taking part in a strike he forfits TWICE his daily pay for those days that he is SUSPECTED of having taken part in the strike, but, it is up to the employee to PROVE that he did not take part in the strike (what if he was in the hospital) and has to sign a sworn affidavit and go to court to get his money back. 12 People APPOINTED by the Governor, President of the Senate, and the Speaker of the house; all of these get paid out of THE SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND and reimbursed for all "operating expenses paid for out of THE SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND and according to Ohio Revised Code 124.15 which means that the can make as much as $32.00 per hour for a 40 hour week and they don't pay for their health care because they are state appointees and get it for FREE! (2) Members shall receive compensation fixed pursuant to division
(J)(A) of section 124.15 of the Revised Code and shall be reimbursed from
the school employees health care fund for actual and necessary expenses
incurred in the performance of their official duties as members of the board. THEN there are another 18 bureaucrats appointed to watch over these 12, all with the same free ride. Oh and I almost forgot, They also get to hire their own aides and these get paid for out of the SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND. How does any of this sound right to you?

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21jasoninohio(119 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Save our country- Teacher do not need a union. The reason teachers hide behind the unions is so they can get away with not doing their job. What other reason is there.

I work for a non-union company. Twice a year I sit down with my boss and get a review. If my review is not up to par, I can be terminated. Under shady union rules, management is forced into keeping sub par workers due to tenure issues.

Facts are, if students are failing, the teachers should be getting fired. Teachers are supposed to teach, not whine and hide behind union rhetoric.

Vote Yes on Issue 2!!

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22TonyL(44 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

The Unions shut down the Sheet & Tube with Youngstown's manufacturing base and now, they have their sites on shuting down Ohio's school system.

Yes, when you live by the sword, you die by the sword. The whole world can now see Gus Hall's, The Power and the Movement, still runs long and deep in the Ohio Teaher's Union and in the Baby Boomers of Youngstown.

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23Oop81269(16 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

OK, here is something to actually read.
At the very least make an educated vote and don't be one of the "sheepeople" blindly following a political party. Here is a link to all 304 pages.
Project Vote Smart condensed version.

And this page will link you to all the ballot issues in Ohio.

This page allows you to look up all the Ohio Revised Codes that the are talking about.

Copy and paste these links in your browser. Get informed. Make an informed vote!

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24Oop81269(16 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

TonyL. Sheet and Tube shutting down had a lot more to do with rising EPA standards that were impossible to impose on such old equipment and the influx of inferior (cheap) imported steel from the Asian continents than it did with the unions. I have seen pay stubs from my grandfather and from my father-in-law going back to the early 70's and I can tell you they were making less an hour than people on minimum wage do today working at McDonald's!

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25lilgandee(103 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Hey lol a worker at Mc Donalds n a Gm workers arent paid from taxpayers money. I could careless about that but you wanna say us private sector want safety from fires and crime but dont want to pay, you want to be heroes for putting your lives on the line paid what your worth-well a true hero is one who does a deed unselfishly. Those who dont come home from war and hurt there are true heroes-My vote is for Sb5/Issue 2 and no on Issue 29, yes to the school renewal levy. Good luckto all on 11-8. I typed on my small phone pad so no caps n etc. I am educated but take your jabs.

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26AnotherAverageCitizen(1176 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Why is it when teachers pay union dues, teabaggers say they are paying unuin dues with taxpayers money, but when teachers go to Mcdonalds it is not tax payer money? Which way is it folks? Make up your mind.

Why is it that when a business under they always blame the union for causing it? But many businesses go under that have nothing to do with unions? What do you baggers blame it on then?

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27AnotherAverageCitizen(1176 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

oops, says ""Copy and paste these links into your browser. Get informed. Make an informed vote!""

Thank you for the information..........

Now I am sure I will vote NO on issue 2

Vote informed....... VOTE NO issue 2

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28jasoninohio(119 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Save our country- I know that teachers, even tenured techers, can be fired for just cause. But the problem is that it is a very slow process. Sometimes takes 2-3 years. WHile that process goes on techers sit home, doing nothing and getting paid my tax dollars to do so.

Unions make it harder for management to keep good workers and get rid of bad ones. That is a fact.

Look at the number of union workers today, compared to 50 years ago. The reason the numbers are going down is becasue people are understanding that unions are bad for business.


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29bad(23 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Teachers should be fired for not teaching kids?? Really?? you must not be a parent, here is a reality check for you. I am a parent and it is my responsibility to teach them with the teacher. I know they can't do it alone with 23 or so students in a room. If parents are not helping their kid then they will get left behind. I think some parents just don't care and the blame gets pushed on the teachers. The parent should be held responsible first then the teacher. I bet if our taxes for schools were based on grades you would see more students getting better grades. It would force lazy parents to get off their as#es and help their kid. AND FYI I AM NOT A TEACHER I just deal with common sense.

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30LtMacGowan(689 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Im just glad that in a very short time Issue 2 and 3 will go down in flames and we can move on to being divided over another issue.

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31Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

I have seen the middle class destroyed by high energy costs brought about by the liberals domestic do not drill policy .

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