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LETTERS || Don’t reverse progress in Ohio

Published: Wed, November 2, 2011 @ 12:00 a.m.

Don’t reverse progress in Ohio

By electing John Kasich it appeared that the voters had grasped reality and were ready to endorse fundamental change to improve our state.

The polls now indicate that Issue 2 will get a no vote. Voters are showing generosity, tolerance and support for the unions.

Generosity because by some calculations, (see below) teachers make close to $70/hour in compensation and benefits. Some others on state payrolls make less and others make more. I doubt that the average voter makes anywhere near this amount, thus they are generous.

Tolerance applies when unions strike. Interestingly, strike issues are not the same ones in the “vote no on 2” literature such as class sizes, safety equipment, training, etc.

Support is key. Conditions are good for union members right now. With the voters support, they can move to the next level, maybe 13 weeks vacation like the old steel industry contracts.

Thomas F. Butryn, Youngstown

A vote against ‘arrogance’

I am planning on voting no on Issue 2 on election day. My position is based on the arrogant attitude adopted by Gov. Kasich, and other recently elected governors in states like Wisconsin and Florida. The campaign rhetoric compared to their controversial actions taken once elected is, in my opinion, an affront to the electorate. Certainly some of the issues brought to lights regarding contract negotiations should be revisited during these dire economic times.

Arrogant politicians, vast divergencies in the income among the classes, and a transition from “of the people, by the people and for the people” to one redesigned by special interest groups (think the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision) are rampant today. Such conditions are destructive to the core values of our society.

I do not believe the evolving growth in the “Occupy Movements” is an attempt to destroy or overturn this country’s banking and financial institutions, structures of government, or the lives of wealthy individuals or businesses. These movements are attempting to send a shock wave through out this nation in an effort to rectify an imbalance within these systems.

There are political activities underway today to limit or subvert a citizen’s right to vote under the guise of combatting voter fraud.Politicians like to say they want to hear the voices of the people. In reality they are listening to those special interest groups who fund their political war chests.

Tom Flynn, Warren


1SAVEOURCOUNTRY(470 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Tom Flynn, your right on with rhose of us that love this country!
Thomas BUTryn, your out of touch with reality. Nothing changes with SB5, it saves perhaps 100,000 state wide. KASICK has killed this state with his phoney budget that will cost you and I thousands in increased taxes at the local level. (4 percent of public workers pay 10% of their wages into retirement (currently required by law) and more than half pay more than 15% to healthcare costs. Those that don't still won't because management postions are not covered under SB5!

I with you Tom Flynn and SAY.....VOTE NO ON SB5

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2JME(801 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

"will cost you and I thousands in increased taxes at the local level."

SOC, it's ironic that you mention this - that's what SB5 would prevent!

Without SB5, you can vote yes to additional levies or see cutbacks via layoffs!

What happenned at Canfield School District over the last year? Two levy failures resulted in lost jobs under the current system!

Here's another reality check for you:

"Canal Winchester, Dublin schools: If tax issues fail, job cuts inevitable"

It's apparent that without SB5, teachers WILL have 50 students per class.


I hope you teach gym, you're not very intelligent. Talk about someone not living in reality.

I'm glad you acknowledge that it's all about the money in your pocket.

"State and local governments would have saved an estimated $1.3 billion in 2010 on health insurance and automatic pay increases if the limits imposed by Senate Bill5 were in effect"



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3grand4dad(196 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Right on Tom Flynn and SAVEOURCOUNTRY.

SB5 is one more attempt to take away from the working class while doing nothing to control abuses at the top. Governor is just trying to pit the middle class against one another and blame all our financial problems on his favorite scapegoat, public sector workers, while he conveniently exempts himself and cronies and management types from this law. That is where the problem lies in public sector, at the top. SB5 will allow those at the top to continue their abuses. The rich keep getting richer at the expense of the rest of us.

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4Politico(27 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

I"ll vote YES on Issue 5

Why should unions dictate the size of classrooms?
Why should unions dictate that only teachers with the most seniority can be kept, and maybe better teachers laid off?
Why should unions dictate to the ELECTED officials how many union members they have to hire?
Why should unions stack the money up to get a politician elected who will do their bidding and lick their boots?
Why should unions dictate what benefits they will extract from the rest of the taxpayers?

If you think working as a public employee is so bad, find another line of work. I want my elected official being the one who decides these issues, not some union goon bargaining moron who's primary goal is to intimidate and hold the public hostage. I'm tired of the union being the 500 lb maggot in the room continuing to suck the blood out of the nearly dead taxpayer. When the finances continue to be constrained, those who support the defeat of SB5 will in fact be laid off because you are like the greedy, selfish child who is screaming and and throwing a tantrum.

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5300(554 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Project much, Politico?

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6SAVEOURCOUNTRY(470 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Who would you trust more KASICK telling a teacher how the should reform the classroom or a panel of teachers? Teacher know better what size of class works best , not some businessman that can't run a successful business. Should some one working at walmart have a say on the type of Fire engine is bought for Boardman township or firemen? Shouldn't police officer's have a say on how many cops are in a cruiser at night and not a council member or mayor that lives in a highrise building downtown that never goes out after 4pm becuase it to dangerous?
SB5 says loud and clear, THE PUBLIC IS STUPID.!!!!!!!!!
WHY ARE YOU STUPID?! BEcuase your not smart enough to vote elected officals out of office that enter into contracts you disagree with. You always had the power to vote them out of office, yet you don't. THat"S STUPID ON YOUR PART.Sorry the truth hurts.

VOTE NO ON SB5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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7doubled(210 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

WOW Vindy -- you guys are real pieces of work....You just can't bring yourselves to publish a letter denouncing issue 2 for what it REALLY is without first putting up a letter telling all to vote yes for sb5. Equal time, huh -- how about equal shelf space, too...bunch of baggers.

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8doubled(210 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Politico -- if sb5 passes (which it won't), but if it does, i hope you get exactly what you wish for.

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9jfuze0905(72 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

So, I did a little research on a couple of local teachers on the site: http://tos.ohio.gov/Teacher_Salary, and you may be a littel shocked to see the results...

Teacher 1:
$69,080 - annual salary
7.33 hours worked per day
183 days worked per year
$45,592.80 - yearly pension estimate
$106,434.37 - pro-rated salary based upon 2080 hours per year
$28,152 - max social security payout

Teacher 2:
$91,000 - annual salary
8 hours worked per day
260 days worked per year
$60,060 - yearly pension estimate
$140,207.41 - pro-rated salary based upon 2080 hours per year
$28,152 - max social security payout

Now I'm not saying that teachers aren't worth every penny they make, but look at the difference between the pension and what Joe average citizen receives. This equates to a difference of approximately $17,500 per year. Add the fact that most private citizens not only pay into SS, but also dedicate between 10 and 20 percent of their gross income to a 401(k) to potentially receive $45,000 per year in retirement savings. Therefore, Joe average citizen is paying between 16 and 26 percent (plus the 6 percent the company pays) to equate the 10 percent that teachers are paying...which leaves a difference of 12 percent on the low end and 22 percent on the high end.

Also, do teachers retire after 30 years? If so, that makes the average retirement age 52, while the average citizen will retire between ages 65 and 72 which boasts a difference of 13 to 20 years...

Now let's perform a little calculation:

13 years X $45,000 = $585,000
13 years X $17,500 = $227,500

The difference being received by a teacher on the low end of the spectrum is $357,500 over 13 years or $27,500 per year. The difference alone is 86 percent of the Private Sector Yearly Wage in Mahoning county in 2009 (http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/bette...), and that's just the difference....

Now let's take a look at some other figures from http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/bette... the Median Household Income in Mahoning County in 2009 was $39,339. Going back to our low end of the spectrum teacher, $45,000 is the annual pension...this is a difference of $5,661 greater than the Median "Household" Income, as well as a difference of $13,550 greater than the average private sector wage in 2009...

Let's take a look at the what the state pension plan is paying over the course of retirement (now remember, this is only for the low end of the spectrum teacher). The average life expectancy in Ohio (http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/us...) is 76.2 years.

Let's subtract the average retirement age of 52 from the average life expectancy of 76.2 years (we'll round to 76 for this example).

76 - 52 = 24 years
24 years X $45,000 = $1,080,000

$1,080,000!!! I've just retired at age 52 as a millionaire!!!

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10Oop81269(16 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Let me give you some info directly from SB5. If an employee is SUSPECTED of taking part in a strike he forfits TWICE his daily pay for those days that he is SUSPECTED of having taken part in the strike, but, it is up to the employee to PROVE that he did not take part in the strike (what if he was in the hospital) and has to sign a sworn affidavit and go to court to get his money back. 12 People APPOINTED by the Governor, President of the Senate, and the Speaker of the house; all of these get paid out of THE SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND and reimbursed for all "operating expenses paid for out of THE SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND and according to Ohio Revised Code 124.15 which means that the can make as much as $32.00 per hour for a 40 hour week and they don't pay for their health care because they are state appointees and get it for FREE! (2) Members shall receive compensation fixed pursuant to division
(J)(A) of section 124.15 of the Revised Code and shall be reimbursed from
the school employees health care fund for actual and necessary expenses
incurred in the performance of their official duties as members of the board. THEN there are another 18 bureaucrats appointed to watch over these 12, all with the same free ride. Oh and I almost forgot, They also get to hire their own aides and these get paid for out of the SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HEALTH CARE FUND. For each and every profession listed in these adds they are going to add more bureaucrats that will cost even more tax payer money. How does any of this sound right to you? Don't beleive me?
OK, here is something to actually read.
At the very least make an educated vote and don't be one of the "sheepeople" blindly following a political party. Here is a link to all 304 pages.
Project Vote Smart condensed version.

And this page will link you to all the ballot issues in Ohio.

This page allows you to look up all the Ohio Revised Codes that the are talking about.

Copy and paste these links into your browser. Get informed. Make an informed vote!

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11AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

""I doubt that the average voter makes anywhere near this amount, thus they are generous.""

I can use the arguement, The average voter does not have a masters degree, like most teachers.

Teachers with master degrees should wnd would make more money in the private sector also. Thats why they go to college and get degrees. To make a better life for ourselvs. But teachers are still middle class, not rich, wealthy or famous.

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12samIam(213 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Master Degrees scam Degrees, they are all paid for with the taxpayer's extorted money. Those who can do "DO" those whom can't "TEACH" Vote YES on Issue 2

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13newsmaker1(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

I been told the NO signs you see, are your public union telling the voters. NO, we will not pay our fair share of Hospitalization, NO, we will not pay for our own Pensions.

Every time you see NO sign- Its the sign of Greed and they stick in your face.

Your family pays, but not mine, says the public union.

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14AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago


If kasich would haved worked with the public union employees, they would probably all be paying more for bene's and retirement by now. Its the rest of the union busting in sb5 that is what most people are angry about. most public unions already pay the same % or more then what kasich is demanding from them. Its the exemptions in sb5 like kasich and his staff ARE NOT INCLUDED in saving money for Ohio. It is the lack of negotations allowed in sb5 that has workers complaining about. That is why sb5 is being fought so much. Not just payng 10% into retirement for unions.

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15NachoCheese(163 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Take our once great state back from union thug influence! Newsmaker has it right on - every NO you see driving down the street is merely an arrogant NO, IN YOUR FACE, I WON'T CONTRIBUTE TO THE SOLUTION union grunt. It is time to derail the gravy train and get Ohio back on track. YES ON ISSUE 2!

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16YtownParent(313 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Here is a novel idea. Let's start holding doctors and the whole medical industry to the same free-market standards too. In other words, completely do away with all employee healthcare costs by eliminating health insurance, which is just a way for the medical community to manipulate the free-market towards their interests. No other free-market democracy saddles its governments and businesses with the insane costs we pay for insurance in this country, all so the medical community can charge much more than what the market will bear.

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