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Mahoning County voters say no to new

Published: Wed, May 4, 2011 @ 12:07 a.m.

By Ashley Luthern



Voters dealt similar blows to Poland and Canfield schools during Tuesday’s election.

Renewal levies in each of the districts were approved by voters, but additional levies failed.

Fifty-eight percent of voters approved a 3.6-mill, five-year renewal levy for Poland schools, but an additional 4.9-mill, five-year emergency levy garn-ered only 43 percent of the vote. In November, voters also turned down a 3.9-mill additional levy.

“The state forces you to beg. Everyone’s in the same situation. It doesn’t matter where you are,” said Eric Ungaro, vice chairman of the Citizens Committee for Poland Schools.

Last month, the Poland Board of Education voted 4-1 to place Tuesday’s renewal and emergency levies on a special ballot Aug. 2. The 4.9-mill additional levy will appear on the August ballot, and if approved, it would cost the owner of a home valued at $100,000 about $150 annually.

When asked about the August special election, committee chairman Paul McFadden said, “I’ve been totally focused on this. I haven’t thought of it.”

In Canfield, 60 percent of voters approved a 1.6-mill, emergency five-year renewal levy, but only 41 percent voted for a 6.8-mill additional operating levy.

The Canfield Board of Education only moved to place the renewal levy on the Aug. 2 special election ballot in case it failed Tuesday. Board members did not vote to get the additional levy back in front of voters in August, and today is the filing deadline to place a measure on that ballot.

In March, the Canfield school board announced phase two of cuts totaling $1.3 million should the May levy fail.

Among the cuts were reductions of 12 teachers and 15 classified staff, state minimum busing with a half-mile between bus stops for kindergartners through eighth-graders and pay-to-participate for extracurricular activities.

Voters in Poland did approve one additional tax Tuesday — by 16 votes.

Results showed 2,175 votes for the 1-mill, additional fire levy for the Western Reserve Joint Fire District and 2,159 votes against the levy.

The Western Reserve Joint Fire District serves Poland Township and village.

The levy will cost $30.62 a year for an owner of a home valued at $100,000 and is expected to generate $350,000 annually.

Mahoning County Board of Elections officials said the fire levy results are close enough for an automatic recall after provisional ballots are counted.

Still, Fire Chief David C. Comstock Jr. said he was pleased with the result.

“The fire district is very appreciative that a majority of the voters was willing to support the fire district in these difficult economic times,” Comstock said.

He said the district will use the funds for capital projects, such as a new fire engine which usually costs about $400,000.

“We’ll pledge to use the money wisely. Our last levy was 12 years ago, and I hope we don’t have to go back [to voters] for at least that amount of time,” Comstock said.

Also in Poland Township, voters approved a 2-mill renewal levy for the township. The renewal will cost the owner of a home valued at $100,000 about $25 a year.

That levy was originally approved in 1978 and currently is valued at 0.59144 mill, generating $193,296 annually, township officials had said.


1lilgandee(103 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Wow I thought our old bus stop was bad but I am glad we moved away from Mahoning county. My daughters. Bus stop would have been okay living where we used to but no sidewalks and no good place to park where we are now and the need for balance I had 2 get her a better stop. I did which I pray for safe busing for your counties children. All that happens in the US to children it is important to keep them safe getting to/from school.

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2Stan(9923 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

During these tough time times tough measures are going to be needed to squeeze more out of the less that the taxpayers have .

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3apollo(1227 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Just like in Boardman township, Poland and Canfield school employees are unwilling to do what they should be doing, accepting wage and benefit cuts to save the jobs of their coworkers. Instead, they make the cuts that have the most negative effect on the children and their parents as a sort of punishment for not passing levies. Then they just put it on the next ballot and hope they can pass it when everyone is on vacation.

Just like in Boardman they present false choices. Cutbacks or higher taxes. Concessions are rarely if ever an option and when they do take a small concession they make it sound like a huge sacrifice.

Public sector compensation has gotten out of control over the last couple of decades and needs to get more in line with the compensation and benefits of the private sector.

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4db(280 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Instead of a tax hike or school cutbacks, how about reeling in the gold plated retirement benefits of teachers at the early age of 52 and shelving the plans for $40,000,000 school buildings? I don't see the teacher's union tightening their belts like we taxpayers have. Go to buckeyeinstitute.org and you will be amazed at what these folks are receiving from us. Each teacher receives between $800,000 - 900,000 in retirement pay & benefits between the ages of 52 & 65 while they are in retirement. This money is paid to them directly from our property taxes while we work to age 67 to support them. They leave their jobs in the best years of their lives and demand that we continue to pay them. Insane.

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5stewie(109 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

They got fooled, they thought the bad weather would keep the no voters away. It backfired on them. They want this levy passed before all the contracts expire! They ought to start thinking about cutting things other than busing to punish parents. How about things like salaries, benefits, monitors, advisers, helpers, 2 hefty nurses' salaries. Double dipping superintendents? also golden retirement pensions. Until then NO WAY!
See you all at the polls in August!

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6paulparks(235 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Board of education game plan:
(1) Give the union and teachers whatever they want,
(2) Go to the taxpayers & claim frugality,
(3) Have former students write glowing letters to the editor,
(4) Have contrived public forums where there is no opposing view presented,
(5) Imply that the finances are "too complex" for the average joe,
(6) Lay on guilt guilt and whine about the "necessary cuts" that impose the greatest "hurt" on the students and parents if the levy fails,
(7) Express dismay when the taxpayers clearly speak,
(8) Repeat steps one through seven every election opportunity till the public pukes.

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7paulparks(235 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago


Teachers get more than one kind of raise:
(1) step raises, which occur even with a wage concession - (if the school is in fiscal emergency),
(2) regular raises,
(3) 5 instead of 3 "snow days,"
(4) master degree raises, &
(5) increasing dollar amounts invested each year in their golden health plans - which is a non-taxable raise,

This plus the imputed benefit of having to work only 75% (30 years) of the time a regular person works to retire (40+ years); working only 75% of the year: personal days, legal holidays, sick days -used or reimbursed-, holiday "breaks"; contributions of 14% made by us to their retirements -(which greatly exceeds anything in the private sector)-, the traditional respect and esteem of society, and finally the imputed (untaxed) benefit of the security of having a job in the public sector. Did I fail to mention that despite all their whining, studies show that teachers are employed in one of the most satisfying careers available?

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8apollo(1227 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

I like Jessiedavids law about a 2 year hiatus between a levy failure and it being back on the ballot. I'd also like to make it law that all levies be placed only on the November ballot. That way, they can't try to sneak them through in August, (Boardman) May primary, or February special election when less people vote.

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9republicanRick(1743 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

The voters have spoken and they are saying that teachers are overpaid in salary, benefits, pensions, and days off -- IN COMPARISON to the average voter.

The teachers and school boards will have to realize this fact. SB5 will help to solve this too after it is implemented. School boards will be able to pay teachers what the school district can afford, without worrying about the effect of a teacher strike.

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10stewie(109 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Yes! only this time in august let's really vote it down by a landslide!

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11redeye1(5683 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

No means No in my book . So it doesn't matter whether it's May or August. I will be voting No again. Then If they have enough money to campaign over the summer for the levy vote in Aug. Then have too much money already!

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12spinman(70 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

The teachers at Poland contribute 9.3% towards their STRS and the school system contributes 14.7. Don't know if any other school system in the state has that. The administrators contribute 0% and the school system (taxpayers) contribute 24% to their pension. Poland's new 2 year contract did not increase the Health Care percentage. It still remains at 5%. This past year the teachers received a 1.25% raise along with STEP increases. These are the type of benefits that should have been addressed prior to the placing of the the new LEVY on the ballot and prior to granting a new 2 year contract. They hurried up and did this befor SB5 became law which would have made thei Health Benefits contribution be 15%.Not to mention other items. Also, the levy in August for the special election could cost up to 30k to place on the ballot. Why would'nt they wait til November,,,???

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13paulparks(235 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago


I forgot a couple steps...in the board of ed. game plan:

(3.5) finally start watching your utility costs (Canfield) like you should have been all along, don't APOLOGIZE for all the money you've wasted, but instead - pat yourself on the back with a front page article in the paper about how you are now saving a few thousand dollars on utilities - when that represents a "drop-in-the-bucket" compared with the gazillion dollars spent on outrageous teacher perks & bennies,

(3.75) Beg, badger, and plead for a bunch of meaningless levy endorsements from political entities or groups that have no business sticking their nose in the taxpayer's business.

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14walter_sobchak(2728 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

I hope all the public employees that are complaining about SB5 take note of these election results because the repeal effort in November should yield about the same margins, maybe a little bit closer. The golden goose has crapped out!

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15watchingthepolitics(100 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Poland and Canfield what part of NO don't you understand the N or the O. Learn to live within your means just like the rest of us. Maybe the Superintendents and their cronies should man up alittle and take on more responsibilities, the same way that they expect other Employees to. See you in August.

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16oldenoughtoremember(4 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

It is amazing to me that the voters of Poland and Canfield have such little regard for their schools.
I grew up in Poland but not as a rich kid but rather from a lower income blue collar family. My father worked as a laborer in the mill and was often laid off, money was always tight but he moved his family to Poland to give his kids a better chance, a better education. He voted for school levies when money was so tight my mother wore the same winter coat for ten years! He never took out his financial worries on the schools because he believed in education. SHAME ON ALL THE VOTERS IN CANFIELD AND POLAND WHO VOTED AGAINST THE LEVY! I seriously doubt you have it any where near as bad as my dad in the 50's. I no longer have children or even grandchildren in school but I support the levies! Can you honestly say it isn't worth sacrificing one dinner out a month or one less purse or one less golf game to afford to fund the district YOU chose to live in? If you really have a beef with schools it should be with the State of Ohio for allowing more than 15 years to pass without coming up with a solution for the unconstitutional funding of schools. That is where the problem really exists. One last thing....when was the last (or even first time) you went to a board meeting to get the facts. Seriously? If you (which I doubt is the case if you were to sacrifice just a little) really can't afford a tax increase then move elsewhere before you ruin our community and our schools.

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17paulparks(235 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago


I forgot one more step to the B.O.E. game plan. Thanks for reminding me:
(*) At least imply or have someone directly say it is SHAMEFUL not to support the school levies. You say people should move if they don't want to support a school levy. Why don't you move to a state that doesn't have school levies decided by the taxpaying public. Another thing - board of education meetings don't give us the facts we want - just the ones that support their "in-bed" decisions with the teacher unions. Some people may be afraid to ask "tough" questions at board meetings for fear of having the school system take it out on their kids - or for fear of waking up with teachers picketing at their house. THE TEACHERS' UNION HAS ALWAYS PLAYED HARD-BALL TO PROTECT THEIR POCKETBOOKS. SINCE WE HAVE SUCH WIMPY BOARDS OF EDUCATION, IT UNFORTUNATELY FALLS UPON THE TAXPAYERS TO PLAY HARD-BALL TO PROTECT THE TAXPAYERS' POCKETBOOKS.

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18oldenoughtoremember(4 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

If you don't get answers at board meetings it's your own fault. Stop being so spineless and hiding behind a so called fear of your children being retaliated against. R u kidding me.

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19oldenoughtoremember(4 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Regarding RealTruth's comments about cars in the parking lot. Remember who put those cars there. The parents that can't afford to pass a levy. Maybe they should stop setting their kids up for future failure since they won't be able to find a job to ever afford their own car! Why not cut busing? Parents immediately buy their kids cars to drive to school because their children don't want to ride the bus. Does this make any sense at all? What's wrong with riding the bus? Of course this now may not be an option....funny how things work out.

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20oldenoughtoremember(4 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Lets stop trying to "reinvent the wheel" and take a serious look at other states that have changed their school funding. Michigan for example. Schools should not be funded through property tax dollars! Stop griping and start thinking of solutions to what is a problem all over this state. Whether the levies pass or not the point is our schools are a mess. Certainly some of the people making all these negative comments have to have a brain. Lets start coming up with solutions not stonewalling.

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21apollo(1227 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

The supreme court of Ohio has already ruled that property tax funding of schools is illegal. The state legislators have sat on their thumbs for at least 10 years.

The schools aren't really a mess. Poland kids do quite well and so do Canfield kids.

The problem boils down to the same thing it does with Boardman Township employees. Do we really need to pay top dollar for mediocrity. Are Poland teachers worth asinine wages and benefits teaching kids whose parents lay an excellent groundwork before they even set foot in any school. The same is true of Canfield.

Factor in a nurse making $75,000 a year in the Poland schools for what is in effect part time work. I guess having those connections really pays off.

Boardman residents need to fail the levy come August, just like the Poland and Canfield people did yesterday. We can't afford to pay Boardman cops $90,000 plus benefits and perks. We can't afford to pay Boardman firemen $75,000 a year plus benefits and perks.

A 10% reduction would save 1.4 million in Boardman and enable increased manpower. I'll bet a 10% reduction in Poland and Canfield would free up a whole lot more and eliminate the need to reduce busing and other draconian cuts whose only purpose is to scare the voters into passing the next attempt.

Time for the taxpayers to put their collective foot down and demand administrators do the citizens bidding not the employees.

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22redeye1(5683 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

How come when they want us to vote for a new levy its for the kids. But when the levy fails, the people they hurt the most are the kids. Why can't the teachers and admin take pay benefit cuts, After all they are dedicated to the kids. Yeah Right!!!!!! The teachers and the admin only care about themselves and no one else. That's why in August I will vote No again.

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23dawg57(5 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Looks like oldenoughtoremember is one of those residents that lives in a bubble like the rest of the residents that reside in Poland who voted yes. The salaries these people make are astronomical. I can afford a tax increase. On the other hand, I don't want to pay for it. As for oldenoughtoremember's comment about sacrificing one dinner out a month or a purse, he/she either didn't know the millage for the levy or doesn't understand how to calculate it. I will also vote no again. I will be sure the rest of my family votes the next time it's on the ballot. And when I sent out the salary information of these educators to other people, boy were they pissed! People have been taking cuts, have not been getting any raises for years, yet they want more. Do some comparisons of the salaries of these people from year to year. Some of them have had upwards of 8% increases. Won't happen anymore on my dollar. Yet the board members and educators seem so shocked and pissed this levy didn't pass. They refuse to acknowledge the truth. They all need to go.

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24spinman(70 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Dawg57 - I agree with your comments but take exception with your comment that all board members need to go. Board member Robert Shovlin is the only board member to stand up for the taxpayers and voted NO on placing the levy on the ballot. He has been ridiculed by the other board members for taking a stand. Continue the good work Mr. Shovlin !!!

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25paulparks(235 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

The Vindicator needs to go beyond salary information in the "Government Watch" section:
(1) What are the major terms of the last contracts with the unions in these school districts?
(2) How much is the cost per employee family for health insurance paid by the public,
(3) How many of the proposed cuts in teacher positions are due to retirement?

(Part of the problem is the "smoke & mirrors" and lack of comparison information provided by school boards. They tout average cost per student when it's lower than average but I'm more interested in COSTS PER TEACHER TO THE PUBLIC, HOW WE COMPARE WITH THE MOST FRUGAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND HOW WE GET TO MATCH THEM.)

(4) We need the benchmarks the unions have: what school districts in Ohio get the most for their employee dollars, i.e., what districts have the lowest average teacher cost in % of amounts paid by the taxpayer toward health coverage and retirement,
(5) What district in Ohio has the lowest average teacher salary(ies) - what are those numbers and how do we match them, &
(6) What other similar counties have school employees making more money than some lawyers in the county Prosecutor's office.
Bottom line: To be good business managers - we need to force the school boards to get us the most for our money in employee expenses.

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26smurf0898(17 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

All wonderful, well thought out, intelligent comments on here. Thank God people are finally waking up!
Hey, maybe the levy in Canfield didn't pass because they didn't get the Republican Endorsement! Hahahahahaha

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27apollo(1227 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Forget it Paul, the public sector doesn't want you to know that and the Vindy doesn't have the investigative pudenda to provide it.

The employees in Boardman have been violating the taxpayers for decades. Some of them, the taxpayers pick up the entire 24% pension contribution. There are something like 6-7 different unions just in Boardman. So the sheer number of contracts is incredible. That's for just 140-150 employees. It's a mess and that's exactly how the public sector likes it since it makes it harder for taxpayers to follow along.

It's time for the public sector to face the same reality that the private sector has been facing. Lower wages, higher health care contributions, and 401K's not defined pensions.

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28paulparks(235 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

One other thought... the Vindicator can probably get the names of the school districts in the last 5 years in fiscal emergency - those would be starting benchmarks for other school districts getting the most for their money. To make it even easier - just start by publishing the major contractual terms of the McDonald school district - since they are in fiscal emergency. It's a rigged system because:
(1) all school districts eventually get out of fiscal emergency when their boards finally force the unions to give some concessions,
(2) you can't get into fiscal emergency until after the school board has punished the public/students with busing cuts, "pay to play", etc., (never sacrifices by the teachers)
(3) contracts are negotiated in secret and BEFORE school boards go to the taxpayers, (we need the public forums during the contract negotiations),
(4) school boards have historically not had "getting the most for our money" as a goal &
(5) school boards are expert at "self-promotion" e.g., having "news" articles extolling the virtues of retiring teachers, etc. What private sector retiree gets such acclamation?

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29apollo(1227 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Public negotiations of contracts would go a long way to bringing the public sector in line with the reality.

But, heck, Kathy Miller, a Boardman trustee couldn't get in to a negotiating session because the employees, admin, and other trustees didn't want her there. They went to Paul, I was shot by the mob, Gains to render an opinion saying she couldn't sit in. Not many in Boardman even made a peep about that lamebrain Gains opinion.

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30Stan(9923 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

It's all in who you know to get a title and a place at the trough . They will not take no for an answer and will keep trying to get more tax monies . After all they see it as "your money" is "their money" .

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31JME(802 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Bring on SB5, the party's over.

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32PHISHIE(105 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

The other day I witnessed an accident.
The drivers little girl was all mangled and bloodied. When the Public Worker police officer arrived, he was asked by the driver "how much money do you make"?. Public worker Police Officer said $54900.00. The driver said that is too much, leave my lil girl alone. I will wait unitl a Public Worker Police Officer that makes $22,900.00 arrives. Several hours later rookie Public Worker Police Officer came on the scene. The Driver of the wrecked car again asked the Officer "how much do you make." The Police Officer Public Worker said $23,000.00 The driver said that is better. You can help my lil girl over thar. The rookie Police Officer Public Worker came back to the driver and said it is too late. After the rookie reaize what had happened, he said to the driver I wish that other officer did not make so much money. He should give some back so he could have helped your lil girl...........PHISHIE

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33Stan(9923 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

It's their money and they want it now ! . . ..


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34apollo(1227 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

PHISHIE is doing exactly what the public sector employee likes to do, scare everyone and tell us that we get better service simply because we pay through the nose for it. Just because Boardman PD makes $90,000 doesn't mean we get better than Austintown whose PD makes $75,000. Don;t be fooled or scared voters, PHISHIE is a public employee and wants the golden trough to keep flowing and get bigger.

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35JME(802 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Your Public Sector Unions At Work


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36meagain(85 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

I just want to make sure I understand how it is you’d like things to work. Are you out to fix some of the issues that plague our education system or are you just witch hunting your neighbors at our local schools? Is the problem Poland and Canfield or perhaps is there a larger issue at hand? When looking over the salaries that the vindicator posted it doesn’t appear that the salaries in those districts are out of line with the other schools posted. They all seem very in line with each other. (As a side note: When can we expect our other local communities to appear on the government watch or was that truly just a timely coincidence?) So is your problem with all salaries or just those earned by the Poland and Canfield teachers? I would hope that it isn’t just a local witch hunt and that you truly are interested in fixing the ills that plague the funding of public education in Ohio. In that case I’d also hope that you’re doing more about that than just voting no on local levies and spreading sensationalized generalizations from behind a computer screen. Because if you are out to change things your anger and frustration wouldn’t just be at the salaries or benefits teachers make, but in the way schools are funded. You’d understand that if schools were funded properly you wouldn’t have to be asked for additional levies. You’d understand that in choosing to live in communities such as Boardman, Poland or Canfield you in essence agreed to pay more than your fair share. You’d understand that because right now with the way schools are funded that just the way it works. It may wrong or illegal, but like it or not it’s the way it’s done. You’d also understand that those districts haven’t spent any more than the districts around them, in fact they’ve probably spent less, and that includes your accusations of over paid administrators and teachers as well the overly belabored Poland Stadium. You’d be just as up in arms about the abundance of new buildings in surrounding schools as you are about those “greedy” local teachers. You’d be mystified that the CEO of a charter school is allowed to profit to the tune of $12 million. You’d understand that those are your tax dollars, too? They are funded from the state taxes you pay, but never see come back to your local district.
...to be continued

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37meagain(85 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Have you ever really seen the dollar amounts? Have you bothered to look at the millions and millions that DON’T come back to your local districts? You can say it’s smoke and mirrors, you can blame salaries, you can say no one has given you facts all you want. The reality is these districts get a fraction of the money that surrounding schools districts get. They are in essence forced to get more than the majority of their funding from local property taxes, while the other districts are funded through your state tax dollars. By choosing to live in those districts you actually agreed to pay for both your local district, those around you and even those as far as Cincinnati. So, I just want to make sure I understand. It’s okay for districts around us and across Ohio to pay their teachers sustainable, competitive wages that attract our best and brightest to desire careers in education. It’s okay for other districts to have infrastructure building initiatives including new buildings and sport complexes. It’s okay for other districts to have state of the art technology that helps students reach their full potential. All the while our local districts will slip further and further from the schools we chose to send our kids to when we moved here. I just want to make sure I understand where it is exactly your accusing fingers are pointing because the way I look at it you’ve got them pointing the wrong direction.

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38KatherinetheGrader(1 comment)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

The wake up call is here. People see what is really happening. Is the Superintendent going to make the tough decisions that will not harm the students' education? After all, the Board members are his puppets and the school system is run his way or it's the highway. But, Zambrini the Magician has been caught with his web of tricks. Maybe the Board will send him off to the highway.

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39Philo(99 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Meagain - You make some interesting points, however it’s important to remember that charter schools came about because certain needs weren’t being met by the public school system. In fact, judging from your comments I would say that you are already aware that there are numerous, well-respected, individuals in the education field who can make a convincing argument that the public school system never really was as good as some would have you believe. Most public schools are only designed to serve the middle 50% of the students. If you are in the lowest 25% of student performers, or the highest 25% of student performers, then most public school systems leave much to be desired. When you only needed an eighth grade education to go work in the mill this really wasn’t a problem.

The most vocal opponents of charter schools seem to be teachers and administrators, whose jobs are “supposedly” threatened by the charters. I say give the charter schools a chance. They need good teachers and administrators too. I would venture to guess that those who oppose charters do not oppose them because they are necessarily bad, it’s because they are run by businessmen who understand the law of supply and demand and won’t be bullied or intimidated by unions and lifetime politicians.

Furthermore, if a charter school operator can operate efficiently and turn a profit, what is wrong with that? The private companies that the government hires to construct and repair public roads make a profit. The defense contractors that the government hires to design and manufacture weapons for the military make a profit. Why is it that a charter school operator who is providing a similar service for the public not supposed to make a profit? I suspect the teachers union and the administrators and politicians who cater to them are afraid their kingdom is being threatened.

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40seriouslyspeaking(1 comment)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Meagain is the ONLY person in this thread that sounds like he/she has educated him/herself about the bigger picture. The problem is he/she would have better luck arguing with a wall. These people have already bought into the conspiracy theories that the world is out to get them, and they have no desire to actually research the problem. There are bad schools out there, but why should high performing schools like Canfield and Poland have to be punished for the errors of those districts? The state is painting everyone with the same paintbrush. Most people use a bragging tone when claiming to be from Canfield or Poland, yet these same people don't seem to grasp the responsibility that goes with living within the expectations of these revered towns. Living here means respecting education and the leaders in these communities. These schools have been producing excellent students for years. Most of these people sound like that parent at the ball field who hates the coach for not seeing the major league potential in their little Johnny. Sour grapes!

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41Stan(9923 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

seriouslyspeaking :

"The problem is he/she would have better luck arguing with a wall. "

I have some chump change left after paying all of my taxes and the chumps now want it all .

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42meagain(85 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

My point with the charter school comment is due to my confusion with all the previous comments and their anger at wages. If you're angry with wages at the local public school you should be equally as angry with the charter school CEO turning a profit on your tax dollar. I understand your point that if it were a business model and he is capable of making a profit he should be able to, but there is no proof that charter schools out perform their public school counterparts. In fact, while they receive tax dollars from all of us they are not compliant to full disclosure or the same standards. If your charter school receives public tax dollars you should be equally as accountable and thus fingers pointing out "greed" should be pointed there too.
Dawg - I see your points as well, but I disagree on one. In this case where the money comes from and how much there is should matter. We cannot have such drastic discrepencies in the amount of funds our schools get. I challenge you to look at the numbers. They are shocking.

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43Philo(99 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

People seem to assume that a change in the funding plan will mean the same or even MORE money for schools. What if they change the funding mechanism and the schools end up with less than they have now? What if the medicine is worse than the cure?

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44meagain(85 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

That also assumes they want to enact a change. I'm of the belief that has more to do with a political will than a knowledge of how. They have no interest in changing it. It's political suicide. Follow the money. As for the medicine being worse - 44 other states have better plans than Ohio. There has to be a hybrid formula in there somewhere that's better than what we've got. The reality is the people in Columbus and Washington have to do a better job of getting jobs to this state and country. If we create more revenue these conversations are irrelevant.

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45BigJim2234(57 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

The biggest burdon on the tax payers of Ohio is Disability Payments to people who are not disabled! Anyone running around who collects disability should be watched and reported and hit them in the pocket book. I am sick of paying people's salaries who are on disability and can walk around and function?

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462muchtax(898 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

No means No, we do need the 2 year bill passed. BigJim above is correct, how many people do you know that are on public disability? It is very common for public employees to jump on disability The vindicaitor should post the names and how many people abusing this system. I agree with vote for the renewals and vote down new levys. Let Zorn and Zambrini look at thier six figure incomes and golden benefits and either start making good decisions or get out and let some forward thinking person take over. You two are old school and greedy!! Most teachers are making more in 9 months than the people paying there wages make in 12 months. The benefits is the real crime. Some of these public employees retiring after 20 yrs is a crime against the taxpayers. SB5 has been needed and Hagan and Gerberry need to go!!

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47momofthree(1 comment)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Most of the comments on here seem to say that teachers are not afforded the same opportunity that other workers are, and that is to be paid a living wage for work accomplished. I wonder how many of these comments are made out of envy for the working conditions that teachers have. The whole point of these levies was to bring money into the school districts, NOT to be a referendum on teachers' salaries or benefits.
People are so quick to complain about something like salaries when what they should really be focusing their efforts on is to get legislators to finally address the unconstitutionality of Ohio's school funding just like the Ohio Supreme Court has said four times dating back to 1998.
THAT, my fellow Americans, is where the action need to be placed.

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48north88(3 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

The real issue here and else where is the ROI on money spent on public education.

Teacher Unions are the main force at work here, and teaching kids is about #20 on their list of concerns.

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