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Tempers flare as SB 5 approved



Published: Thu, March 31, 2011 @ 12:01 a.m.

photo

AP

Protestors gather in the rotunda at the Ohio statehouse after Senate Bill 5 passed through the Ohio House of Representatives Wednesday, March 30, 2011, in Columbus, Ohio. The bill would strip public employees of collective bargaining rights.

By Marc Kovac

news@vindy.com

COLUMBUS

Lawmakers gave final approval Wednesday to legislation limiting collective bargaining by public employees, sending the bill to Gov. John Kasich.

The governor is expected to sign it into law before the end of the week.

Senate Bill 5 passed along mostly party lines. In the House, the vote was 53-44, with five Republicans joining Democrats in opposition.

The Senate vote was 17-16, with six Republicans voting “no.”

Union protesters watching in the House and Senate erupted in anger after the votes were announced, yelling “Ohio hates you,” “Repeal it” and a few expletives before being escorted from the chambers.

The contentious sessions capped weeks of committee hearings and protests that drew thousands of union members to the Statehouse to voice their opposition to Senate Bill 5.

In total, the legislation was subject to 13 hearings and 60 hours of testimony from 200-plus witnesses, said Rep. Joe Uecker, a Republican from Clermont County and chairman of the committee that considered the bill.

But those sessions did little to sway either side, with most Republicans calling the legislation a necessary step to cut public spending and Democrats calling it a “union-busting bill” that would hurt middle class families.

“You guys are very focused on the 350,000 state, municipal and local public employees,” said Rep. Bill Coley, a

Republican from Middletown. “And our side of the aisle is equally concerned about those employees. But we’re all concerned about the over 500,000 Ohioans who don’t have a job. And we have to right the ship of state to get our costs in control.”

Those two sides likely will come to a head in coming months, as opponents launch a petition drive to place Senate Bill 5 before voters in November.

If that happens, the law changes will not take effect until after the election — or possibly not at all if Ohioans reject it.

“The majority of the people in this state are against this bill,” said Rep. Dan Ramos, a Democrat from Lorain. “And by the majority of all people I don’t mean [just] Democrats.... I cannot tell you how many people have told me, who’ve texted me, who’ve Tweeted to me, ‘I’m a Republican but I’m

against this,’ or even ‘I’m a member of the Tea Party but this goes too far.’”

Senate Bill 5 would allow collective bargaining for all public employees, but would limit negotiations to wages, hours, safety equipment needs and other terms and conditions. Health care premium payments and other issues would not be included.

Both sides would be required to disclose more information about their contract demands. Pay rates and raises would be based on employee performance, not just seniority.

Public employees would be prohibited from striking but, Republicans said, would not face jail time for doing so.

The legislation also would prohibit “fair share” payments required of employees who do not want to be members of a union.

And binding arbitration would be replaced by a dispute resolution process that ultimately puts contract decisions before locally elected officials, though citizens, in certain instances, could force the resulting decisions to election ballots through a referendum.

“Under current law, an unelected arbitrator can force a spending decision on local officials and the people they represent even if every person ... in the city, township or county opposes it,” said Rep. Lou Blessing, a Republican from southwestern Ohio who supported the provision. “There is no consent of the governed.”

But opponents, including Sen. Bill Seitz, a Republican from Cincinnati, said the legislation is written to always favor management and not workers in the dispute resolution process.

“This is a fundamentally rigged process,” he said.

And Sen. Tim Grendell, a Republican from Chesterland, added “I will flap my arms and fly home before you see a referendum under Substitute Senate Bill 5.”

In the end, Republicans who voted for the bill said the changes were needed to enable state offices, school districts and local governments more control over their costs.

“Government needs to be more efficient, absolutely,” said Rep. Lynn Wachtmann, a Republican from Napoleon. “Most of my constituents are sick of paying higher taxes and getting service that isn’t always the best from government at all levels.”

He added, “This bill respects all workers because it will help us serve the people of Ohio better through better operations of government if local governments choose to.”

Proponents also said the legislation would enable public workers to continue to negotiate labor terms.

Rep. Ron Young, a Republican from Lake County, said the bill still allows public employees to have up to six weeks of vacation time, 12 paid holidays a year and 1,000 hours of sick time.

“People in the private sector would die for these benefits,” he said. “These are fantastic benefits.”

But Democrats countered that the legislation has little to do with budgets and everything to do with politics.

“The clear message being sent: You were not on the bus, so you’re getting run over,” said Rep. Matt Szollosi, a Democrat from Toledo.

Szollosi said public offices already have the power to control their costs, with union members taking pay cuts and making other concessions to deal with the economic downturn.

“If this were truly about the budget and the need to contain costs, here’s a radical idea: ask for concessions,” he said. “Communicate. [But] not one phone call was made by the administration, not a single phone call, to the state unions asking for the reopening of negotiations.”

Minority Leader Armond Budish, a Democrat from the Cleveland area, was the last minority party member to speak during Wednesday’s House Debate.

He asked, “Why get rid of collective bargaining when it’s done so much good, raising up the working poor? One argument I’ve heard today is that government officials give away too much. They can’t stand up to organized employees.

“... So let me make sure that I understand your argument: State employees are overpaid because prior Republican administrations were weak negotiators and poor administrators and couldn’t stop themselves from giving away too much money?

“And now the only solution is to get rid of collective bargaining because the current Republican governor, the current Republican House and the current Republican Senate are afraid they also are too weak to stand up to those big, bad, tough union negotiators.”

Rep. Bob Hagan, a Democrat from Youngstown, said Senate Bill 5 disrespects public employees and caters to wealthy interests.

“This is an attack on the middle class,” he said. “When corporations have increased their profits 200 and 300 and 400 percent while the unemployment level in this state has been around 8 and 10 percent, when we’re fighting wars all over the place and we can’t fund opportunities for people

to go to work in Youngstown, Ohio, something is terribly wrong.”

Wednesday’s House session included frequent outbursts of applause and occasional guffaws from about 180 union protesters in the audience. The noise prompted Republican Speaker Bill Batchelder to warn, “We’re going to clear the balcony if it’s necessary.”

Hundreds of other protesters chanted and booed outside of the House chambers. They rallied following the House session, cheering in support of Democrats’ vows to gather the necessary signatures to place the issue on the November ballot.

“We have not seen the last of it,” said Sen. Joe Schiavoni, a Democrat from Canfield. “The signatures will be collected and it will be placed on the ballot in November. And at that time, all of Ohioans, whether they work in the private or public sector, will get the opportunity to right the wrongs that they voted in the last election.”



• Protesters Erupt at House Vote
Union protesters watching in the House erupted in anger after the vote was official, yelling "Ohio hates you" and "Repeal it" before being escorted from the chamber.



• March 28 Kasich Gaggle
Gov. John Kasich and DRC Director G. Mohr answer reporters' questions about the sale of five state prisons, income taxes, collective bargaining and other issues following a press conference in Marion.



• March 30 House GOP on Senate Bill 5
Republican lawmakers comment on Senate Bill 5 prior to House vote on the bill. Speakers include Batchelder, Adams, Huffman, Uecker and Blessing.



• March 30 Kasich on SB5
Gov. John Kasich comments on Senate Bill 5 prior to the House vote on the legislation.



• March 30 Kasich on Change
Ohio Gov. John Kasich talks about Change.



• Senate Chant on SB5
Union protesters chant "Mama, mama can't you see what John Kasich's done to me" before the Senate comes back into session to consider Senate Bill 5.



• Solidarity Forever Chant in Senate Chambers
Solidarity Forever chant by union protesters before Senate Bill 5 vote.



• March 30 Kasich Transportation Budget Signing
Ohio Gov. John Kasich signs two-year transportation budget. Lawmakers commenting during the ceremony include Patton, Widener, McGregor, Amstutz, Wilson.



• March 30 Kasich Q and A
Reporters ask Ohio Gov. John Kasich about biennial transportation budget.



• March 29 More Senate Floor Scene
More video in the Ohio Senate chamber prior to the vote on Senate Bill 5. Loud booing after Sen. Shannon Jones, Republican sponsor of the bill, enters.



• Final Senate Vote on SB5 with Audience Outbursts
Here's the scene during the final vote on Senate Bill 5, with protesters continually interrupting the final vote count with shouts and singing.



• March 30 Jones and Niehaus on SB5
Republican Senate President Tom Niehaus and Republican Sen. Shannon Jones discuss Senate Bill 5 following the Senate's concurrence vote.


Comments

1UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

It's a great morning in Ohio folks! SB5 has passed and the Ohio taxpayer's wallet is the clear winner.

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2pj(80 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

sr5 is good for the States, unions are good for states, but unions have no right to bargin for wages & benefits.

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3willinnyny(76 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Because of this vote, Working-Class People in Ohio will Suffer and Greedy Corporations will Profit at their expense. The self-defeating, backward, poorly educated, conservative, working-class voters of Ohio who voted for Republicans are now getting what they voted for --- maybe they're getting what they deserve? Ohio is one of the most depressed and backward states in the union --- No one who has a choice would want to live there.

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4author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Is Obama and Hillary going to invade Madison and Columbus?

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5SAVEOURCOUNTRY(467 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

UnionForever,
Mark my words, your taxes will not go down! In fact, they will go up by 50% with all the cuts or your local services will suffer. If the law flies, which for Ohio's survival, lets hope not, the private sector will see huge cuts in salary and benefits as well. United we stand, divided we fall !!!!!!! And the elitist party that passed this crap is loving it because of uneducated people on the facts like yourself. I' have said it before, those of us in the public sector with much higher educational levels than those in the private sector have been giving back and losing jobs at higher rates than the private sector over the last ten years.
This bill will hurt the economy in Ohio. If you think teachers are not worth 50,000 a year, you go to school and spend 35,000 to 45,000 for a degree plus another 8000 to 12000 for a required mastered degree to make 27000 to 32000 for the rest of you career.
But I guess you have no problem with Ohio tax dollars going ($56,000,000 in profits) going to charter school operations while tests scores there are at best two grade levels behind that of the public schools. OOOOH yea! Charter schools can pick and choose who they take along with the private schools all over the state. Inner city public schools end up being the dumping ground. However, we bust our butts and get many more to graduation than any charter school.

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6HonestAbe(270 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

The people will get the final say in November.

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7timOthy(802 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Where do I sign ? Now you see fools ! Though your my brothers and sisters I hope you have learned your Lesson ! The muscle will support all of you guys. Meaning the Building Trades. One suggestion we as Trades come from one house. Which is the same house that you live in and come from. Just don't forget about your other Family members and their causes that come from the same house ! Go Government workers. Repeal, Repeal,and Repeal !

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8JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

"...and we can’t fund opportunities for people to go to work in Youngstown, Ohio, something is terribly wrong.”

Hagan, your one of the reasons's for this.

"Tempers flare as SB 5 approved"

Looks like the Left are the new tea baggers.

SAVEOURCOUNTRY - teacher, police, fire, and rest still negotiate their pay and safety equipment. Do you honestly believe these people will see a reduction in pay? It's about the frivolous benefits that are out of touch with what the private industry receives.

The party's over!

This video should be entitled "Public Employees Union for Dummies"

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vide...

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9JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

@ NoBS,

Not saving money? If SB5 was in place in 2010, it would have saved a measly $1.3 Billion last year.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/...

Not to mention this coming up:

"But in July - when the final year of a three-year labor contract begins - those reductions are scheduled to end. That means a hit of more than $250 million to state coffers, the state Office of Budget and Management says"

"But on July 1, concessions the employees gave up nearly two years ago will start to be reimbursed or restored"

"About $50 million for personal time that could not be taken will be paid in a lump sum in August. An additional $30 million in bypassed "step" salary increases, $150 million in pay cuts from furlough days and an undetermined amount in sick days also will be restored, but not paid in a lump sum"

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/...

The people against SB5 have NO facts or data to support their argument. It's the classic union handbook phrases they can only offer.

The Party's Over!

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10walter_sobchak(1845 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

It is a new day in Ohio and people that work for a living should be pleased with this bill. Maybe we can now alter our tax system in this state to encourage businesses to locate here instead of scurrying down south.

The train has left the station. Next stop, a right-to-work state, straight ahead!

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11JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

geromajor, politically motivated? Unlike the Vindicator, yea right. The truth hurts and you'll never see it in the Vindy.

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12JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Walter,

Fortunately the House made a provision that gives the worker the option to not have to pay union dues.

There goes all the contributions to the Democratic party.

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13JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

The Gov. has shown more interest in this area than any previous Gov., or President.
I've lived and visit Columbus to know how the Dispach writes stores, and realize the data can be skewed - kind of like when they poll Ohioans to see if they disapprove SB5, but your reaching with your arguments over the data.

You want something less biased:

Ohio is the second worst State when it comes to Unfunded Pensions per Capita - we each would have to pay $19k to catch up:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/44/d...

Be the first to write your check made payable to The State of Ohio.

Feel free to provide data/facts that support the issue that the public sector unions are not part of the problem.

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14Photoman(993 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

No matter which side of the fence you're walking here in Ohio, the fact remains that our jobs continue to leave Ohio. I note that Arizona, with all of its problems with the border and the lawsuits filed by the feds, continues to draw new corporations which are creating new jobs. If I were a decision making corporate exec Ohio, with all of its union bullying, its corrupt political processes and its inept state management would not be considered as a favorable location despite its having a great available workforce with strong work ethics. Objectivety is certainly lacking on both sides of the current argument.

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15Tigerlily(476 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

It will be repealed. Your celebrations are premature.

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16JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

What votes would Kasich or any Republican get from the Valley? Why would any bother to come here knowing that the Valley will always vote "D"
I'm married to a teacher so I'm very aware of the difficulties they face, and the way they abuse the system. They are compensated very well when it comes to wages and most importantly, benefits. The wages aren't the issue, it's benefits that are out of touch with reality.
Won't be repealed when Ohioans realize how much money is involved. That will be revealed if/when it goes to a vote.

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17redvert(2046 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Like it or not folks, the public sector in the US has been out of control for years. YOU CANNOT SPEND MONEY YOU DO NOT HAVE! We the tax payers have taken a stand.

Once before I made the above statement and a reply was that the public sector employees pay taxes also, so they in fact are paying their own salaries. My take is this, if that is so why not pay the public sector out of the taxes they pay. How long would they be getting a paycheck???

This tenure crap is what gets me, typical union mentality. Once you are there for so long you can just screw off, you are protected. Most hard working union employees will not admit it but they see useless people with more seniority ahead of them but there is nothing they can do to advance until the warthog dies or retires.

"Poor people have been voting democrat for 50 years and they are still poor"

Charles Barkley

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18JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

His staff pay overall is less than Strickland's. Didn't Strickland, Dann, etc. bring in all of their cronies? Carano, Reardon, Jennings, Guitierrex, etc. all got nice cozy jobs. Since you bring up contributions, doesn't organized labor fill the pockets of Democrats, in return for beneficial voting? I might add that organized labor is also the top spender for lobbyist in Ohio. Don't be a hypocrite, both parties work in the same way.
This area gets not respect and doesn't get thrown a bone because (1) people like Hagan is viewed as a joke (which we both agree), and (2) politicians/labor is so confrontational - they would rather bad-mouth the politicians in Columbus than work with them, thus getting nothing in return.

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19mrblue(968 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

This bill was to break the unions and nothing else. It will be voted down in November. Those of you who didn't vote because you thought that Kasich had no chance of winning-----have no one to blame but yourselves.

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20JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Get real GoNeo, the union rhetoric is getting over used.

Where in SB5 does it say they'll reduce the number of police, or change the certification requirements of teachers, or reduce the pay of any? It's all about the ridiculous perks received over the last 27 years, which is completely out of line with the private sector.

A simple rule of supply and demand, if the pay for police officers was too low, very little will apply for those positions. The result is the pay will increase until there is a supply of people willing to become a police officer.
Look at nurses. There is such a demand for them that they can write there own ticket, and could find a job virtually anywhere.

The other options to SB5 are (1) raise taxes (which probably won't happen in this economy anytime soon) or (2) start laying people off. Of course, the unions would take layoffs over sacrificing to save jobs.

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21JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

mrblue,

Read post #14 if you think it's not about money.

How many people out there spend more money than you bring home from your paychecks? If so, Chapter 13 is not too far off from you.

The party's over!

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22JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Geromajor, the college professors get paid little compared to what they can do in private industry. I would agree with you that they do care, and many contribute to advance technology with research. You have to wonder if they benefit from being part of organized labor.

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23jethead11(139 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

It is a good day for Ohio. The state is finally progressing. For the union people out there, life will continue pretty much as it did before. The earth will still rotate and the sun will still come up. You will still pay your bills and vacation at the lake like always. Your seedy union bosses and the Democrat Party may take a hit, but that's a good thing. Once you are over your mental dependence to the union, you'll begin to truly realize the American dream. I know you don't know what I'm talking about, but you soon will. You will see the individual power you have, and you'll see you don't need to have collective anything to succeed.

Taking into account cost of living, the highest paid public teachers in the U.S. are in Georgia (my home state). Teachers have never had collective bargaining rights in Georgia. Just something to think about.

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24Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

I am going to have to ask the government for all the taxes they have been taking out of my paycheck for the past 20 years since obviously I don’t pay taxes because I am in a union. Why are you a taxpayer and I am a union worker? I PAY TAXES TOO! I AM A TAXPAYER. Raise taxes on all Ohioans. Don't just take from a select few. Unemployment will go up now there is no protection. Youngstown will lose the 2 3/4 taxes they get from prison workers who are laid off. I will not have the disposable income to go to the mall. We have no clue what else is hidden in this bill.

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25Rockabilly(93 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

"Way down south in the land of cotton...."

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26VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

To those of you who consider yourselves more intelligent as well as more educated than the rest of the general public (such as Save our country thinks)...I am sorry for your lack of knowledge. You apparently have been sheltered inside your cave too long.

There are many very well educated people out here today without jobs, or working lesser jobs simply to get-by until conditions improve. Meanwhile, our economic conditions of the past two years have finally hit home on state and local governments, who are finding their income streams greatly reduced. This mess can only be improved by a limited number of solutions: 1). Increase taxes 2). General lay-off of government workers 3). Reduce costs.

Since SB5 is designed to reduce costs, it will help avoid state tax increases and major lay-offs, but it does not guarantee other lay-offs. Local tax increase proposals will have to be voted upon by the local voters, but I see more local lay-offs coming as citizens vote with their pocket books.

SB5 is not the final solution, as there are more steps required to get our budget back in line with reality. There are far more serious issues pending than just SB5. SB5 is not as bad as the union people make it out to be. They are just angry that they are loosing some of their power. I think it is about time they realize they are not the only game in town and that there are many people suffering right now who could care less about their issues.

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27redvert(2046 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

geromajor, i agree with you that there are a lot of teachers that do care. I have a problem with just wanting to grade them on straight student performance without taking into consideration the students that are just putting in their time and thus dragging down the overall performance of the rest of the students.

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28hurrdurr(98 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

How does firing public employees or significantly lowering their wages create jobs in the private sector?

And let's say it does save the tax payer some money in the short term, if Kasich was responsible that money would go to paying off the deficit. But it won't. Large checks will be written to corporations - probably ones that are already here and don't plan to go anywhere. The deficit will remain the same. Kicked down the road. Jobs? You're having a laugh.

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29JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

GoNeo, the folks who write the paychecks are in charge, not the workers.

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30JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Workers who do their job are treated well. The ones who don't need to move on. Workers earn better pay/benefits, they are not automatically handed out.
You don't like your job or want more money, look for another job and/or improve your skills/education.
It's pretty simple and works in the private sector. The free ride is over for those who take advantage of the system.

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31JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Average, do you think your employer owes you something? That attitude is one big reason why the Valley is in it's current poor state. The sense of entitlement.

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32JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

What employer pays minimum wage, McDonalds?
Are you willing as a consumer to pay more for products if all wages were to increase?
SB5 allows wages to be negotiated, and bring benefits in line to what is received in the private sector. Is that so horrible?
Do you spend more money than what is brought in from earnings? That is what is happening in the State of Ohio.
Don't believe all the union rhetoric and learn to think for yourself.

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33JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

"Those who take advantage of the system are the employers who pay mininum wage and no benefits.."

I have to ask, how is this related to SB5?

The State is already broke, because of the take, take, take attitude of the public sector employees.

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34Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

There is no need for austerity when we can do so much through increased taxation . . ..

LIBERAL OHIO SPEEKS OUT !

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/w...

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35VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

I believe I may have posted this once before, but I will renew everyone's memory.

Many years ago, I worked in a union shop. For doing a good job, I was approached by union officials who encouraged me to slow down, as I was killing the job for others. After 2 strikes and millions of lost hours, the company pulled out of Ohio and moved south. They are still making products today.

As a business owner, you cannot afford to operate this way and expect to be competitive. The public's demand for lower cost items demands business owners to count every penny if they want to stay in business.

We now see this happening in government, but government cannot move south. They have to stand and fix this mess. Unions still want to complain, as if they have a better solution, but their solution is self centered and only solves a union problem - not the real problem at hand.

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36VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Diane - welcome to the world of unions. They may look great on paper, but their methods, their anger, and ther retoric is deplorable. They always complain about management, but they never have a viable solution - only more grievances, which is a solution in itself as they feel the more grievances they produce, the more inclined the business will be to give in.

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37JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

"the more inclined the business will be to give in."

Or give up and close the doors.

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38JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

You are correct, and they also provide 113,000 U.S. jobs.

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39Tigerlily(476 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

This thread is a testament to how well the Republican agenda to set private workers against their public counterparts is working. It's a shame, people turning on other people who provide them with services that, when they disappear or diminish in any way because of this, will result in howls of outrage from the same people who embraced this foul piece of legislation initially.

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40redvert(2046 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

JME, you got to love rocky, he could not of made it easier for you than he did.

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41jethead11(139 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Even though GE didn't pay any taxes, 113,000 U.S. employees did. And thousands more ancillary companies and employees did too. And had nice paychecks to boot. If GE left the country, then none of them would have payed taxes and hundreds of thousands would be out of work. Not such a bad deal for taxpayers when you really think about it, huh? And GE is hiring.

Now, does any union organization pay taxes? No, they are a (wink, wink) non-profit. Do they have any employees? A few, but many are paid under the table (so they don't pay taxes). Unions only take, they never give. Glad to see the people of Ohio finally standing up to them. Keep it up, you're winning.

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42commoncitizen(959 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

HonestAbe,
You said it !!! The people WILL get the final say in November BUT NOT the way you will want it to turn out!!! The PEOPLE have woken up BUT do not go around and protest like you union people. We spoke up at the polls in the last election and will do so again.

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43VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Tigerlilly - there will be no howling over lost services from this end. Many of us have already suffered far more than we are willing to admit, but as we take stock of what we have lost we realize our losses have been substantially worse than we imagined we could possibly take, yet we are still here. Because of this, we want to right the ship and we refuse to bow down to union interests who suddenly feel their issues are the worst thing to happen to mankind since the invention of sliced bread. GET OVER IT! You're going to survive and be better off than we were at the time. But the important thing to remember is that all of this is being done for the sake of our future and our children's future.

Let's look at this from another perspective. What would Strickland have done if he were elected? He would have raised taxes, had a general lay-off of union people and ordered the consolidation of under-performing schools.

Would that make everyone happy? Well, if so, then guess what, Kasich may still have to go to some of those steps as well. So, these complaints then are partisan, political and only an attempt to shore up corrupt unions who have milked our government dry during the past 40 years.

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44commoncitizen(959 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Average citizen,
Did Strickland take a pay cut when HE was in office and puttong the STATE in debt?

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45candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

GE did not pay a tax because it had enormous losses and made investments in green technology.

This week the U.S. Chamber or Commerce said
small businesses and start ups can not get loans.

The average teacher pension in California is $49k and the fund is asking taxpayers for more
money to cover 2008 losses.

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46HonestAbe(270 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Tigerlily, The Republicans have done a great job at creating civil war among the middle class. The really rich don't care about this issue...and the poor have been screwed for years. You almost have to admire their devious and despicable methods. That being said, just a reminder to those who seem to think otherwise...I PAY FOR HEALTHCARE, I PAY INTO MY PENSION, AND I PAY TAXES, TOO!!!!!!!! See y'all in November....

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47iBuck(210 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

"Looks like the Left are the new tea baggers."

The Tea Party folks didn't trash places the way these lefties do. The Tea Party people weren't violent.

Now, if the legislature would do something about reclaiming that $19M that was given to Tata amidst promises they'd employ Ohio citizens.

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48Philo(99 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

There is a whole lot more support out there for SB 5 than the public sector employees would have you believe. The tax payers are fed up and they will support SB 5 in the referendum, just like they supported Kasich in the last election.
Also, why is is that the law of supply and demand works everywhere but the public sector. Let these teachers and other public employees quit if things are so bad. I'm betting there will be 12 people lined up to replace each one of them, and for less of the taxpayers money. If no one steps in to replace those who quit, then the market will drive up the wages, just as it has for the nursing profession.

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49redvert(2046 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Ok rocky, one more time! 113,000 people have jobs and are paying taxes, not mooching off the system. Now work with that for awhile and see if it could make sense to normal people. Not you of course, normal people.

Anything moral about leeching off of taxpayers?

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50SAVEOURCOUNTRY(467 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Collective bargaining with this bill is gone!!! If any of you that support this crap have read it would know that FACT 90 days before a public contract is up both sides, thats the union and management exchange new contract proposals. Lets say teachers and the board of education are the players. If in 90 days, a new contract isn't reached......guess who decides....the board of education......We know what will happen to any pay raises in the next 10 to 15 years..... At least five school districts have let their teacher know salaries will be cut anywhere from 35 to 50% once current contracts are up.
End result, Poor quality teachers teaching in Ohio. Academics will suffer along with the private sector because the quality of work force will fall. Good workers are hard to find at 5.25 an hour.....wonder way?

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51TonyL(44 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

The government employee unions across the country have some pretty strong allies in their battle against the taxpayers. One very strong ally in particular, the Democrat Party. You cannot forget the massive amounts of money that these government employee unions donate to political campaigns; and you must remember that 95% of these donations are made to Democrats candidates. Government employee unions, and especially the insipid and dangerous teachers unions, are the number one financial supporters of the big government high tax Democrat party in this country. So when it comes to these moronic union members marching around with their "Support Workers Rights" signs in Columbus, and other state capitals around the country, the ordinary put-upon taxpayers have to remember that the right these union members are trying to protect is their right to stick their hands in your pockets."

It seems, the government union leaders and members are so completely outraged that there is now a man who knows how to run the governor's office. They know that this is a Governor they cannot shove around, and they're scared to death.

To all you Teachers, a word to the wise, don’t bit the hand that feeds you!!

The reason: The miss handling of your Retirement monies by your Union, does this rings a bell?

As of Feb. 28, 2009, STRS Ohio's investment assets stood at $46.4 billion. That's a drop of more than $24 billion - and 32.1 percent - from where it was on June 30, 2008, when assets totaled $70.4 billion. According to the most recent STRS Ohio newsletter, this leaves "a shortfall in the funding of benefits."

Also, the teacher health care fund is also being depleted. As of Jan. 1, 2009, it stood at $2.69 billion, a $1.34 billion drop from the previous year. Additionally, STRS says the projected life of its Ohio Health Care Program has been shortened from 13 years to nine years. It is now projected to last until 2018.

I think you guys better cool it, the time has come, to listen and comply. Do you think the taxpayers will pay for your Union’s mistakes? I don't think so!!

If you want help in the future, now’s time to help this Governor to bring Ohio back from the brink.

Pay now or pay later! It is up to you to decide.

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52walter_sobchak(1845 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

falconeddy,

Your comment is highly offensive...

and very funny! :^')

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53webad(156 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Union haters,
So then shoot yourselves in the feet because you're envious, selfish, and hateful toward the power of organized labor. This assault on workers is going to trickle down to you.

You should be informed that businesses organize, too. They have the Chamber of Commerce, the Better Business Bureau, Lobbyists, and all sorts of other business interest groups. Why should they have all the power? Why should corporate interests be able to make slaves out of the workers?

And how does it feel to be living in a police state now, all you people who voted for yourselves to be fined and tossed into jail? You private sector workers are going to be next.

Question: What kind of fool elects these power & money crazed freaks?
Answer: Hoodwinked minions of the super-rich, aka Tea-partiers, aka dunces.

Gadzooks ! This is a sickening assault on the working man and on all of us.

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54webad(156 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago


PS: Just to be clear .... the government is a business and it's run like one.

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55willinnyny(76 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Republicans in Ohio must be STOPPED ---- and so must the ignoramuses that voted them into office. Question: Why are working class people in Ohio, who vote Republican, so unintelligent and self-defeating?

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56JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

"PS: Just to be clear .... the government is a business and it's run like one."

One that will be filling Chapter 11

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57TonyL(44 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Hateful toward the power of organized labor, you must be out of your mind to say something like, teachers and public workers don't even know what manual labor is, they are white collar want-a be blue collar workers. The heaviest thing they will ever pick-up on the job is a cup of coffee.

Unions only make you believe they are organized. The only thing they are organized at, is taking your money.

Where is your messiah when you need? Obama has no choice but to go along in cutting local government cost, the Feds don't have the money to bail them out, your union bosses know it and they won't push the envelope but put on a show like they did in Wisconsin.

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58TonyL(44 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Rocky, you got to mention what these states,
South Caroline
North Caroline
Georgia
Texas
Virginia
have the most of and in common is section 8 housing. Even if they had collective bargaining, would it have made a difference?

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59VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Now, the unions are predicting they will raise over $20 million in defeating this bill and those who voted for it...

Why can't unions raise the money to help the state get out of it's budget woes rather than waiting until a law is passed before they decide to take action against individuals? They seem to be sending the wrong message...a message that says its OK for the State to lose money, but don't mess with our power and control over the state, or we will get you.

What a great message and what a fine way to spend 20 million dollars that our people and government desperately need. This just confirms our beliefs that unions are self-centered, egotistical, strong-armed hoods willing to drive governments and coroprations into bankruptcy rather than loose one page out of their contract book.

This isn't about balancing the books now, its about getting even. They don't care about the State. They don't care about the people of Ohio. All they care about is their contract and they are willing to spend 20 million dollars to do it.

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60HonestAbe(270 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Oh stop it, for gosh sakes. You don't think big business and the corporate fat cats can't raise 20 million bucks by writing a couple of checks? SB5 was never about tax savings...that's what "they" would like you to believe. It's about union busting, plain and simple. If you actually think you are going to see your taxes lowered, you are naive beyond belief. Too bad the Tea Baggers fell for this line of bull hook, line, and sinker. That being said, the people will decide in November.

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61walter_sobchak(1845 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

JME,

This is exactly the point! The schools don't have to worry about the bottom line, like a for-profit business. A business must slash costs by reducing overhead or laying off workers, trying to get more for less unless they can raise their prices for their product or service. Schools just want to keep raising their prices, i.e. increase taxes, instead of making the hard choices because, after all, we don't want to hurt the children!

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62mahoningvalley12(36 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

You want to treat education like a business...no problem!!! Sorry for those of you who have children who have children who enter school behind or have a harder time comprehending information because they simply won't make the cut. Here is an idea....take away all benefits and retirement for teachers and simply pay them like you would a babysitter.
Pay these teachers $3 an hour to watch your kids...don't have to pay them for lunch or any of that silly planning time. Let's say that is about 6.5 hours a day for babysitting your kid. That is $19.50 a day...now lets throw 30 kids in their class. That works out to be $585 a day. Now let's tackle that issue of "well teachers only work 9 months a year"..no problem lets pay these teachers only for 180 days....that works out to $105,000 a year...with that money they can purchase their own healthcare and enroll in some type of 401k.
Pay them like a babysitter and they will watch your kids and even educate a few of them.
If you decide to be gracious tax payers and give those teachers with master degrees minimum wage $7.75 based on the same schedule that works out to $272,000 a year!!

I for one pay for day care and $3 an hour would be a huge discount and my kids don't get educated.
This system allows those teachers to purchase their own healthcare and retirement, which under the current system is the only advantage these teachers get to dedicating their careers to helping children.

This will never pass a popular vote!

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63dicaprio7(17 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

To the above comment, shouldn't you name be republicanDick?

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642muchtax(306 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

SB5 was needed. The public benefits are way out of line with the private sector which pays the majority of the taxes. 50K, my kids teacher makes 75K for 9 months 50.58 an hour. The pension and benefits are the bigger problem 50-60,000 a yr in pension benefits after 30yrs you know retire in your early to mid 50's and suck the taxes for rest of your life on the backs of the all the older private sector workers. Oh state patrol retires at 20yrs. www.buckeyeinstiture.org take a look

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65candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Public pensions need to be equal to ERISA and a federal law must be passed that requires full funding of public pensions be made.

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66JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Average,

Currently, it's about $50/hour not counting benefits.
It's all about the children.

Btw, most teachers retire in their 50's; my wife can go at 51. Nice gig they have.

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67JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

I should add, I have a Master's degree and still can't keep up with my teacher wife's pay/benefits.

I can tell you by first hand knowledge, the public sector teacher employees have it much better than the private sector employees with comparable education and work experience.
But it's all about the kids.

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68cambridge(2963 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

JME....You have a masters degree? Do you have a job? If people like you are successful in dragging everyone else down to your economic level how will that make you feel better? Why are you such a hater?

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69JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Cambridge chims in with an opinion, we've all been blessed.

No, I'm realistic after seeing and hearing about some of the waste. They're not being dragged down, just brought back to reality. So, where does it say SB5 what the pay/benefits will be, since your big on facts? With insurance premiums going up, up and up, that becomes one hell of a compensation.

How does a teacher get away with taking 5 sick days over a period of a few weeks, just to help his/her son out? You helped pay for those vacation days, disguised as sick days. Yes, my wife is pissed at this person who abused the system.

Do you honestly believe that the compensation for teachers, police, and fire are going to be brought down; no one would do the job, which would in turn would force the wages to rise. It's so pathetic that the Left uses these professions as their poster child.

So Cambridge, what is your solution to all of this, higher taxes or layoffs? Considering the State budget cuts, we'll see layoffs. You can't spend money you don't have.

The Left has done a great job at bashing SB5, but continue to offer absolutely no solutions.

Thank you for your concern, but I am satisfied with my pay during this economy; but will seek something higher once things turn around. That's how the public employees sector should think, but they don't.

You should know about being a hater since you're pretty good at it.

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70JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Average,

Teacher rate is approximately $50/hour, not private sector. You got it backwords.

So if the teacher worked a full year, a teacher could bring home $100,000 a year, not including the benefits.

Does that seem fair?

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71JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Also, I have no problem paying more for insurance, because all of the taxpayers are getting screwed. And when SB5 gets takes effect, the taxpayers will see the benefit.

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72cambridge(2963 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

JME....I take it from your last post that you do have a crummy job. So instead of doing your job you spend your time on the Vindy all day posting dozens of stupid comments about other people being overpaid for what they do. LOL!

You know who is overpaid? YOU!

Just because you settled for a crummy job it doesn't mean everyone else has too. Instead of sticking your nose in other people's business get out there and try and find a better job. Maybe it will help you feel a little better about yourself and help you get over the envy you have for people that have done better for themselves.

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73JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Flip-flop, thank you for proving my point, typical democrat that has to refer to name calling when you can't argue your point with facts, and a hater.
Actually I have a very good job and good pay thank you, and I don't need a union to represent me and tell me how to think. My job can be down from multiple locations, and it gets completed so I have time to get on vindy and make morons such as yourself look bad because you only offer opinions, no facts. Do you prefer higher taxes or layoffs? Better yet, maybe you folks who are agaist sb5 should be taxed higher and higher until the public employees wants are covered. The rest of us will be exempt.

Where's your facts? Oh, just like all your arguments, empty.
Didn't you receive enough the last time around, you bitter old man?
Now, do you want to change the subject like you always do, or throw out some more names?

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74JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Btw Flip-flop,
I thought about you when I read that GM had to curtail some U.S production because their Japanese supplier was shut down for awhile due to the earthquake/tsunami.
Imagine that, GM the so called "American" company getting parts from Japan LOL.
At least it's closer to GM's China operations. LMAO

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75Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

http://innovationohio.org/wp-content/...

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76Seeitcoming(10 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

Where can I get a peition? I have 20 family & friends ready to sign it now and we all vote!

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77FifthAve(168 comments)posted 3 years, 3 months ago

So Ohio, how is your Tea Party governor working out for you?

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