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IRS puts lien for $32K on Judge Belinky’s house



Published: Fri, March 18, 2011 @ 12:09 a.m.

photo

Mahoning County Probate Court Judge Mark Belinky

By Peter H. Milliken

milliken@vindy.com

YOUNGSTOWN

Mahoning County Probate Judge Mark Belinky and his wife, Cynthia, owe the IRS $32,302 in federal income tax, and the judge said he and his wife have made arrangements to pay that debt.

“We’re on a payment plan with the IRS to pay it off,” the judge said Thursday.

The IRS filed a lien Feb. 14 in the county recorder’s office against the couple’s Windsor Road home in the Newport Glen section of Boardman for the aforementioned amount.

“We’re in the process of refinancing the house,” the judge said.

The lien, filed by mail by the IRS office in Detroit, is for $22,997 for tax year 2008 and $9,306 for tax year 2009.

Judge Belinky said the debt stemmed from relatively large sums he earned as he closed out his private law practice, in which he was self-employed.

“When I became a judge and had to finish up my practice, it generated a lot of income, so, on top of my new salary, it created an income-tax problem,” the judge said.

The judge also said an insufficient sum was withheld for federal income tax from his wife’s 2009 income. Cynthia Belinky is a full-time ultrasound technician at St. Elizabeth Health Center.

Judge Belinky, who was appointed probate judge in December 2007 and elected to that post in 2008, earns $105,000 a year in that job.

The judge declined to be specific about the terms of the IRS payment plan.

“This [lien] will always be on this particular address until it is paid in full,” said Noralynn Palermo, county recorder. “I don’t think a bank would loan you money if this was on it,” Palermo said, referring to any prospective buyer of the house, who would seek a mortgage.


Comments

1highpoint(34 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

How typical! And this is the Judge that will be determining estate liabilities! He didn't pay the taxes due, and there is a lien. He didn't respect the law he swore to uphold. Either he should resign or should be impeached. Let's clean this Valley Up, or we all go down.

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2author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

"I made so much money I cant afford to pay my taxes!"

The arrogance of Mark Belinky knows no bounds.

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3UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I made too much money so i couldn't pay my taxes - what a crock. Just vote his lying non-taxpaying butt out next election!

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4author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Maybe he can stand in front of the courthouse with those pencils of his in a cup selling them to help pay off the lien?

Of course his crack chief investigator Don Gaudio Jr would have to move his car from the handicapped parking zones to make room for Belinky to hawk those pencils.

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5Photoman(1000 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Why wouldn't a bank make a loan on this property if the appraisal shows adequate value. Loan proceeds would pay off the IRS and, if there are no other liens, the bank would become sole lienholder via the refi mortgage. The owners have demonstrated that they can and will make the payments.

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6author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@Photoman:

Belinky claims he made big bucks and with his $100,000k + salary and his wife's $70,000+ salary (according to tv reports) he DIDNT pay his income taxes.

In today's banking world - that question might hurt him for a loan.

Also, he lives in the Glen - not a hot spot for real estate values in todays market in Boardman.

Where did all the bread go your honor?

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7artie2010(13 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

It is amazing how unforgiving people are in this valley. We will NEVER prosper as a valley until blockheads quit making comments like they are doing against the judge. Maybe these "know-it--alls" should publicly reveal THEIR income tax information. Most of them are probably not employed or are on assistance.

As an accountant I am neither for or against the judge but this is only regarding his past two tax years. He has already set up payment arrangements with Uncle Sam. Let him make restitution and pay the interest and penalties. The IRS will not be forgiving.

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8dmacker(267 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Tax cheat, Judge , Lawyer, and a Democrat. We should send this guy to Congress.

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9Askmeificare(700 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Hey Belinky,

I made a penny fraction of what you made last year AND I paid all my taxes due.

May I suggest YOU take a pay cut to where I, the little folk live, then you will be able to afford to pay your taxes.

Mind if I Judge You?

HERE YE, HERE ALL-

Everyone with business before this court come to order.

THE PEOPLE VS. JUDGE BELINKY

Case is ready for sentencing. Mr. Belinky please stand.

Count One: This court finds you guilty of gross financial negligence.

Count Two: This court finds you guilty of improper planning from a public official.

Count Three: This court finds you guilty of gross stupidity in your attempt to get over on the people of the state insofaras making comments like:

“When I became a judge and had to finish up my practice, it generated a lot of income, so, on top of my new salary, it created an income-tax problem,” the judge said."

Is that your excuse for tax year 2008 or tax year 2009 and / or into tax year 2010?

This court orders you to:

Serve out the remainder of your judgeship term whereupon completeion you will not seek re-election and if you do you will live with an election loss.

Pay your taxes with a 48% penalty; another 48% interest, and another 48% stupity charge - consider it a refund for making a fuss about wanting a bigger courtroom.

This court congratulates you on earning income that essentially cost you the "sheeple peoples job".

By the way, nice teeth.

Case closed. Next case.

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10Askmeificare(700 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@ falconeddy:

Right on. GREAT comment!

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11walter_sobchak(1893 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

artie2010,

I'm not an accountant, just an engineer, so I'm going to take a stab at this. Looking at this in reverse, if a tax is owed, there MUST have been either taxable income, i.e. wages, salary, commissions, or some sort of gain in capital, which is taxed at a much lower rate. I would hope that a man as "educated" as this either understands the tax law or employs someone that does. If the gains are on paper, he needs to divest some property and pay the man. I had a similar situation in which my wife worked a second job part-time and insufficient funds were withheld during the year. We dug unto our savings and paid the man. Obviously, for the amounts listed, there was a sizable gain.

That being said, most people do not ask to be put into positions of public trust. This man was APPOINTED to the position and was re-elected. This man presides over many cases with huge sums of money and capital but he can't take care of the simplest of things in his personal life? I would not vote for the schmuck!

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12wondering2(32 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Why is this so difficult ? You OWE taxes, you PAY taxes !

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13outsideobserver(31 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I hope the Vindicator and our Democratic Party Chairman Mr. Betras ask Belinky to step down immediately. If Belinky won’t do the right thing himself maybe the Supreme Court of Ohio will step in and remove him from the bench.

No excuses Judge, you brag about having gone after so many other elected officials in the past and running them out of office, why are you different? Because it’s you this time?

There have already been other investigations of your office and now this, what’s next? How can people believe in the court when the Judge can’t follow the rules himself? Be honest Mark, you would be the person screaming the loudest if this were anyone but you.

Resign today and prove you aren’t just another Mahoning County politician doing business as usual.

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141970mach1(1005 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Well,he isn't a tax cheat,since he has a lien on his house.That means he has to pay the money back. He has a payment plan, so apparently he and IRS on the amount owed. How is that cheating?

I'd want to know where all his money went that he can't pay the bill before condemning him. If he spent it all on his campaign, then no sympathy. If it was for med bills for sick child or something like that then I'd feel very bad for the guy. Just all depends on the facts.

It does seem that with what he makes and what with what his wife makes (even if it is only minimum wage) they should have had enough money unless there was an emergency.

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15artie2010(13 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

To Falconeddie and others.......25 years in my acctg business and NOT ONE claim against any of my clients.

Learn how to read and understand what was being said. I don't know the judge and have only seen him at downtown events or at the Elmton. The last time I looked, my address was USA and not flipping Romania. You probably spent most of your free time watching "Cops" (actually I enjoy the show but not as often as you do). The prelude says "everyone is presumed innocent until proven otherwise".

Good Lord.....lighten up and see what happens before you act as judge, jury and hangman.

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16topsailwatch(64 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

When you are born with a silver spoon in your mouth and have an ego bigger than your head, you tend to think that laws are made for others.....not for me.

How can a supposedly educated elected official think for one minute that you can out smart the IRS? Me thinks that his elevator doesn't go to the top floor !!!

He should resign his trusted office immediately.

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17AtownParent(561 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Come on artie, I think you need to follow your own advice. It is a lien on his home. If the IRS has levied a lien, the man is not making payments or working with the IRS. If he was, they would not have put a lien on his home. It truly is not difficult to work with the IRS on these issues. It is when you ignore their repeated efforts to collect tax monies owed that they resort to liens.

As for the amounts owed, it was two years in a row that he did not pay federal income taxes properly. He either has a really crappy accountant or he tried to do them himself and failed miserably. But the biggest issue is not the monies owed, it is the arrogant explanation of "I made too much money so I can't pay them."

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18Hlecter(59 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

This can happen to self-employed people if you aren't making quarterly payments of the correct amount.

Once you have jobs where your employer witholds and pays the taxes though it should never be a problem.

When he was self-employed he was responsible for the entire SS tax, so I could see where that could happen.

Since the IRS has liened the house, and he has set up a payment plan, I certainly wouldn't call him a tax cheat.

Been there.

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19steelwagon(284 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I don't know the judge or anything about him other than what I've read in the paper or have seen and heard on the news but his comment about making so much money that it caused him to have a problem paying his taxes doesn't make sense at all and sounds a bit arrogant.

I'm self employed and don't begin to earn what the judge does but I manage to pay my taxes.
Once I complete a job and get paid for my work the first thing I do is put the money I need to pay my taxes in the bank and every quarter send the IRS their cut.

Can't say I enjoy doing it but it's the law and we all have to folllow it weather you're a welder or a judge.
It's best to just pay up and avoid all the interest and penalties or having a lien slapped on your home,property and business.

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20TiredTaxpayer(44 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I strongly believe that most tax paying Americans (which constitute only half of our citizenry) are shouldering too much economic burden. There is a reason that the taxing authorities require your employers to withhold taxes and that is because there would be a revolution in this country if we had to cut a check for 20 - 30% of our wages to Uncle Sam every 2 weeks. HOWEVER, we all have a responsibility to contribute our fair share to the tax base and the IRS does not file a tax lien until there have been many letters and notices that are sent ahead of time. Bottom line: Judge Belinky was aware of this large tax claim and ignored it for too long. A big portion of penalties and perhaps, interest, could have been avoided if it had been dealt with timely. I'm sure it felt overwhelming for him, though.

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21artie2010(13 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Hey Atown parent......for the record I am NOT the judge's CPA. Maybe you are correct and that he has a bad accountant.

Believe me, no one knows the IRS better than me. I fear them, know their employees, work with them, follow their rules. They cut no one any slack.

Yes some of the judge's comment bordered on arrogant but several people (esp Falconeddy) simply don't like the judge. Falconeddy has slammed the judge in the past for appointments to the Mill Creek Park board of commissioners when he (Judge Belinky) has a wonderful, diverse group of people on that board. Folks from Boardman, Y'town, Canfield Twp, Struthers....

Some people just have an axe to grind......

I am done. Time for the NCAA games.

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22artie2010(13 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Again someone comments without knowledge of the situation. Belinky is NOT on the board, has no authority to run the park and makes no decisions other than whom to appoint. So there are NOT three lawyers on the board. People were appointed based on geography and background. Several board members are business owners and the park is a business.

MCP is in the best hands it has been in MANY years. Maybe you should attend one of their meetings. I do frequently and it is very refreshing to see what is happening with this gem in our community. The new director personally has handed out his card to those of us in attendance and has met with us almost the next day. Our concerns are being addressed.

Do your homework before you comment.

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231970mach1(1005 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Vindy should go to the Mahoning County Board of Elections, check campaign finance records and see if Belinky loaned himself any money during his campaign. If he did, then there is a real issue of why he was able to pay himself for the campaign instead of IRS taxes. If he did not, then that's that.

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24artie2010(13 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

RepublicRick---agree with you about lawyers (remember the joke......what is so bad about a busload of lawyers going over a cliff?.....two empty seats) but this board is decent. Remember that four of the current board members were NOT in place when the previous idiot director was let go. I asked one of them at a meeting last year about it. I was told that "it was cheaper to just pay the severance rather than get into a long court battle and p*ssing match".

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25artie2010(13 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Falconeddy.......for some idiotic reason I wasted some of my time and read nearly all of your 200+ responses.

I guess I found that there IS another God.....someone who knows it ALL. You used the word "stupid" countless times. Realized that this site represents an extremely small percentage of the area and luckily don't all have similar opinions and views. Don't need to spend time dealing with such negativism and people that don't have anything good to say.......

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26artie2010(13 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

RepublicanRick---since your post came thru, I called and spoke with two of the MCP board members. I have been at enough meetings that we all sort of know each other.

Regarding benefits for park employees, they went thru a "bidding war" with 8 companies for benefits and have the same package as last year with less park expense. Employees have absorbed a bit more of the deductible. Contracts with both unions (police and staff) were three year with NO increases in wages/benefits. Not sure where you got your information about retiree's getting benefits but unless part timers buy them at 100% of their expense, the park does NOT pay one dime for this.

I have been visiting the parks (either Mill Creek or Yellow Creek) for 40+ years.....I am early 50s.....and the park and golf course are in the best shape I have ever seen. This board, if they keep their arrows straight, will be legendary. Ironically time to leave the office early to stroll thru the park.....

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27nojimbo(223 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

As someone pointed out, there may be some other factor (ie. medical bills, large loan to family member) that caused the judge to have "a cash flow problem".

Absent that though, this looks real bad from a PR point of view. At least 90% (95%?) of area families would love to "get by" on $170,000+ per year.

It really makes you wonder if the man is competent to run an operation the size of the Probate Court since, barring an unknown family crisis, anybody with sense would have put enough money away to cover the tax liability.

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28author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Stop the posting! This just in: The Local Historian from the old Mark Belinky Democrats 17/6 Message Board just emailed me what really happened in regards to Belinky's financial woes.

"I haven't been around for a long time, because ahem... I have been busy following Judge Belinky's crack chief Investigator Don Gaudio Jr. trips to and from the Mocha House on county time. There must be a lot of widows and orphans being interviewed over a coffee and a danish.

Anyways... as I used to do when I covered the County Commissioners Meetings at the Court House, I found that the same door I was able to pry open and then conceal myself in the ceiling to gain access to what was REALLY going on was still easy to pick.

After crawling over all sorts of human remains, ballot boxes full of uncounted votes and Paul Gaines cigar stubs I found myself over the Probate Judge's Chambers. Here is what transpired:

BELINKY: Where is Donnie! How the hell did I get bad press? The media loves me. Didn't they just gush over the way I handled the money to the kids hospital in Boardman? I talked to three people at Chiles and they all said what a great job I'm doing.

HAMADY: It must have been someone you pissed off. By the way, I'm disbanding the organization we both founded. Do you have any consultant work for me?

BELINKY: I have never pissed off anyone! I am loved! I am respected! Wait a minute that woman in the Recorder's office said something bad about me.

HAMADY: Cant be her. She cleaned your clock when you ran against her. Maybe Hunter or Maruca or Lanzo?

BELINKY: Now you're onto something. They all are so jealous of me. I'll get Mark from Niles to dig up some dirt on them and pass it out to the media.

HAMADY: Why dont you post positive things on the vindy.com comment board. You could use names like Burford and davidjohn.

BELINKY: Great idea. Maybe it was the Hanni's? Maybe Mike Morley? Maybe George Tablack. I know -- it was the Commissioners for me beating them in court to get more money so I could buy pencils and hire Don Gaudio. Where is that man?

GAUDIO: Here I am. I brought you a Cafe Latte Judge and here is your skim milk Mr. Hamady.

BELINKY: Donnie, you have any suggestions to get me out of this PR mess?

GAUDIO: Call up Judge Clunk and ask him to help you get the Venerose payment plan with the IRS.

BELINKY: Brillant Donnie. Now I know why I hired you. I'll finish paying the lien in 2499. Think I will ask the Commissioners for more money and give you a raise Donnie.

HAMADY: What about me?

BELINKY: You don't mean anything to me, your club is defunct.

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29redvert(2058 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

author50, I think you have exposed the real truth. Great job!!!

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30candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

"All my people love me."

Gaddafi

lol

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31unhappyvoter1(87 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I am sick of all our lying commissioners, judges, and anyone else that is a part of the political system. its ok for them but not us. they want raises but no one else gets one. what is wrong with this --------------- picture. lets get rid of all the bad apples. they don't care when they lay us off when it should be them that get the damn ax. pay your taxes, i thought that amount meant jail. isn't that what happen to someone else we all knew well??????????????

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32author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I challenge Mark Belinky to publically release his tax returns for the years that the IRS levied a lien on.

I just cant buy (pun intended) his excuse that he made so much money along with his wife's salary + increased income from becoming a Judge that he couldn't afford to pay his taxes. This is Mahoning County - I am to cynical when it comes to elected judges who get into financial jackpots - think Cronin, think Cox, think Emrich.....

BTW: To those of you who think he might have had huge health costs - think of the health benefits he started to receive courtesy of the taxpayer starting in 2007.

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33seminole(476 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

ALl these comments make sense at some level but once it gets to the bickering between us the perspective of the real story is lost: this jackass did not pay taxes, has tried to make an excuse any mouth breather could get past, and expects the public morons that have elected him to fall for it. It's typical Mahining County ignorance perpetuated by the voters that are stupid enough to elect an already indicted County Auditor. Argue amongst yourselves but do not lose site of the real issue and why it's right there in front of us. Besides, this troll speeds through our neighborhood EVERY DAY. And I will remind you that it is our neighborhood. It's not like he happens to come through from Canfield or where other of the spoiled brats and moms some from that speed through the neighborhood. I'm sure this upstanding citizen would try to excuse his speeding as he did not know. Residential is 25 mph, Belinky. Maybe numbers aren't your strong suit...

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34author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@seminole

Is it Belinky driving the car or his crack chief investigator Don Gaudio driving Belinky back and forth to the Mocha House in Boardman that you are seeing?

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35seminole(476 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@author50

No Gaudio that I can see, just Belinky peering over the dash in a booster seat...

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36walter_sobchak(1893 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

My Gosh, he is one attractive cat! The smile reminds me of Walter Matthau in Dennis the Menace.

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37author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Is it true that Judge Belinky has hired Jim Traficant and Louie Wolk aka Free to prepare his taxes for next year?

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38Askmeificare(700 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@ author50; @ falconeddy;

@ author50:

Your comment number 36, "Stop the posting! This just in:"

IS HYSTYRICAL! I am emailing it to all my friends! " ...get the Venerose payment plan...". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I'm gonna have to print this out and frame it and hang it on my office wall! It's killer commentary! Please add me to your fan list and indeed I would like an officer position in your fan club.

Absolutely too good! Thank you for the big time hearty laugh!

@ falconeddy:

In comment number eleven falconeddy, you wrote some terse words to artie2010. You can't write to artie2010 like that. The anonymous writer is indeed making sense and you just ridicule that individual for, well, nothing.

falconeddy, perhaps you should find the commentator that goes by the monicker name carlstaatz and strike up a friendship.

But still all is cool :)

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39ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@ falconeddy,

Watch it there, I have an alibi, Carl must have slipped on a banana peel and is now institutionalized with amnesia, and he thinks he is Donald Trump.

Also heard he keeps saying over and over again screw the little guy what have they ever done for me? You're Fired!! All the while lighting cigars with $100 dollar bills from a Monopoly game.

He is also saying "Donald" in 2012.

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40author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@askmeifIcare

Well tanks friend.

Belinky has only been a Judge for 36 months and look at the stuff he has given us to write about: 1) Sueing the commissioners for more money when the county was broke and then going out and buying pencils that he himself has said "...kids love when I give pencils to them..." 2) Hiring the superunqualified Don Gaudio Jr. to be his crack chief investigator. 3) Holding a "Probate Court Town Hall Meeting". 4) The whole Venerose saga. 5) Not appointing minorities to the Park Board as he first campaigned on and then getting heat from that and going out to 'recruit' an African-American WHILE he told others the application process was 'fair and open'. 6) The lulu of lulu 's "Iam so rich I cant afford to pay my taxes."

Me thinks there will be a lot more....

PS Shutting the Court House down when there was a threat of a bad storm.

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41Askmeificare(700 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@ author50; @ falconeddy; artie2010:

You guys are great! I enjoy reading your comments!

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42author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I think Judge Belinky should have another Probate Court Town Hall meeting this year and talk about tax... excuse me estate planning.

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43author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

It's time for Judge Belinky to not only make his tax returns public, but also his campaign reports so people can see the truth about what he put down on paper.

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441970mach1(1005 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

His campaign reports are public. Just go to the board of elections and get them. Public records .

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451970mach1(1005 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

1. Campaign reports are VERY useful even w/o the tax returns.

2. The campaign reports will show how much $$$ Belinky loaned himself for the campaign.

3. If he loaned himself a small amount, say $500, no big deal. It wouldn't have made much difference for the tax lien.

4. If the campaign reports show Belinky loaned himself thousand$ and thousand$, that is a big deal because it shows he put his own personal desires (campaign) ahead of tax obligations.

5. Belinky had a large income when he was running. Wonder where the money went that he had the tax lien.

6. Is Belinky up for election in 2012? IIRC when he ran, wasn't it for an unexpired term?

7. And on the issue of a candidate loaning himself $$, that is no big deal. Completely legal, and most candidates do it.

8. The funny thing is, IF he did loan himself $$ (and he may not have), then he can legally pay himself back from his campaign fund.

9. So, if he has a campaign fundraiser, he would be able to collect donations to pay himself back. Then the money he gets from campaign fundraiser he can pay himself back, then pay the IRS.

10. Why isn't there a follow up story from the Vindy?

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46author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@1970

You are correct on many accounts. However, campaign reports in this town are not what they appear to be. Remember the Chance fundraisers at Mr. Anthonys? They are also not properly audited and checked at The Mahoning County Board of Fixxed Elections (Think Sherlock, Sly Patton).

Thus, his tax returns for the years in question are important. For example, what if the tax returns DO NOT show that debt that the IRS has put a lien on his property for? Does that mean the $32,000.00 came as income that he didn't report - maybe in the form of a campaign donation that was hidden?

Belinky isn't up for re-election for awhile. He won the unexpired term in 2008 - so we see him until at least 2014.

Also, Judges just cant have fundraisers like all the others. Only when they are running for office. Thus Belinky cant start until the year 2014 to raise money. Doesnt mean he cant have 100 of them that year - but only IN that year. And if he did loan himself oodles of money he can pay himself back as long as he properly documented the loan, etc in his reports.

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471970mach1(1005 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

SOTIRED:
The points you make, copied below, are so true.

"Think about it....You have no leverage when you pay your taxes on time and get tons of leverage when you owe back taxes. That's when the IRS starts making deals and reducing the amount owed.

So if you are unsatisfied with your tax bill, you withold the amount you are supposed to pay and begin appealing it. Doesn't sound stupid to me at all. Maybe the original tax bill was 3 or 4 times that amount."

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48author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Belinky's ego is so big, he will think he is the most popular elected official in the county because the comments on his tax lien problem(s) are #1!

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491970mach1(1005 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

He was elected to full term in 2008, so his 6 year term ends 2014 when he is up for re-election.

By 2014 the only people who will remember any of this will be a couple people from this thread. I'll probably forget in a couple months.

I don't know why Vindy does not do follow up. Not fair to the public official or the readers not to. And if no follow up is going to occur, I think it is only fair not to bring it up in the first place.

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