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Group opposing Ohio's SB5 collects more than 700K signatures to put law on ballot



Published: Fri, June 17, 2011 @ 5:16 p.m.

COLUMBUS — Opponents of Ohio’s new collective-bargaining law say they have collected hundreds of thousands more signatures than needed in their effort to let voters decide whether to repeal the measure this fall.

A spokeswoman for the group We Are Ohio said today it has gathered more than 714,000 signatures. They still must be checked by the state’s election chief to ensure enough are legitimate.

“It gives it one hell of a start,” said Dave Betras, the chairman of the Mahoning County Democratic Party. “It’s a long battle, but that’s a lot of signatures to collect.”

Betras likened the effort to curb collective-bargaining rights to “taking a sledgehammer to kill a fly” and said it attacks the working people of Ohio.

Mark Munroe, the county’s Republican Party chairman, said he wasn’t surprised at the number of signatures collected.

“I think we’ve always assumed that the opponents of SB5 were going to be able to gather enough signatures,” he said. “It will take a lot more votes than that for the issue to be successful on the ballot in the fall.”

For the complete story, read Saturday's Vindicator and Vindy.com


Comments

1YtownParent(296 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

The only thing wrong with SB5 is how long it took the state of Ohio to finally draft and pass it. Government employees are just that The Government, thereby they do not have any rights that we the people have not given over to them. If they don't like it, they are free to leave the positions and seek employment in the private sector.

We, and our debt-ridden children, grandchildren, and great-great grandchildren, do not need more better paying government jobs. We need less and lower paying ones. It's the only way we'll ever unravel the czarist bureaucracy of this state.

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2WarrenRicheyKid(167 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

What a tremendous number of signatures. Great job! I think the entire state now knows where the issue stands thanks to the signature campaign. Onward to election day!

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3jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

ytownparent, you are correct that the "bureaucracy" needs cut. But unfortunately Senate Bill 5 DOES NOT DO THAT. What SB-5 does is punish your neighbors....and in doing so punishes you as well. Less income means less money spent in the private sector means further downsizing across the board. It kick-starts a never ending cycle of reduced salaries and recessionary economics within the middle class...both public and private.
Instead of SB-5 what is needed is guys like Sen. Bill Johnson ( a republican, who is, ironically and hypocritically a supporter of senate bill 5) to not have positions which pay $60,000.00 (for part/time work.) THAT is the true enemy...not your neighbor the teacher, police officer, or fire fighter who makes a livable wage.
Bill Johnson, like Tom Humphries, needs taken to task for their outrageous salaries-especially in light of how hard they really seem to be working....because they certainly are NOT DOING THE PEOPLE'S BUSINESS....
Ponder this: Is it really such a good idea to have "the lowest common denominator" working as our safety forces? Because the "best and the brightest" certainly are not going to work for $9.00/hr....

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4300(553 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I think you mean David Johnson, Jupiter.

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5jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

yeah, i get those two confused...media overstimulation/saturation. Thanks for the correction
:>

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6taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I am happy to see this on the ballot just so it can have an ending one way or another that can be a true "peoples choice" no matter what side you are on. I am pro SB5 and still wanted it on the ballot so that if it goes through the other side can stop saying it was not a voters choice. So whatever way it goes, everyone needs to let that happen and stop the fighting. What I do hope though is that people get out and VOTE from both sides and not assume it will be what you want because you are only one vote.

One last thing, I hate hearing about the $9/hr thing because we all know that isn't what is going to happen. The pay is too high in some counties, but the biggest thing is the insurance and retirement issue. And the absurd comments about punishing your neighbor etc...it's been the other way around for so long and nobody seemed to care about taking from their neighbor!

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7jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

taxpayer1001-i agree 100% with you regarding voting. However, you are in error regarding your "Down playing" the 9.00/hr. example....SB-5 does allow negotiating, if you want to call it that, for wages. However the "negotiating" is in words only. The reality of what SB-5 allows is a reduction and "watering down" of wages. Any wage will be offset by healthcare costs that are uncapped.
Its a matter of which side you are on whether or not you agree or see this.
further little treats in SB-5 remove union protections, thus allowing for political games to be played. "Don't like the police officer who gave your son a ticket?"Guess what? He can now be fired for no reason whatsoever-just talk to your councilman at the country club about it.
Don't like your daughter's teacher because your poor parenting has taught her that acting out is the way to get her way? Your daughter's teacher can be fired now...all because maybe you should not have been a parent in the first place.
After 33 years of fighting fires your neighbor could retire...now he will work until he dies on the job. Increasing worker comp costs and insurance policies in the process.
There is a reason that the military has mandatory retirement ages....public safety is no different.
And one last thing, taxpayer1001; As I have stated before, we all pay taxes. That accords an individual NO SPECIAL STATUS IN OUR SOCIETY. You will always have to pay taxes....but there is no law whatsoever that says I have to patronize a business that employs "jealous" neighbors.
If you don't understand tat we are all in this together then maybe you deserve to live in the guv'nor's world afterall...

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8ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Hey Jupiter, watch out the sky is falling.

You are starting to sound like the Boy who cried Wolf.

Take a break for a while, you will definitively burn out prematurely before Aug 2nd if you are not careful.

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9jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

ohhhh, your concern is touching. But fret not my little oh-so-proud-yet-so-irrelevant sparring partner: There ARE PLENTY MORE WHO BELIEVE AS I DO...
i believe that on august 2nd Ytown, Stan, streetsmartt (don't you just love ironic names?), and Charms are waiting for the mothership to land.
Apollo has promised to take them home...right after he proves that it was public employees who sunk the continent of Atlantis.

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10ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Aug 2nd my friend is when the first of the levies requesting the taxpayers to keep the golden trough of Boardman flowing to be voted down.

The overspending on benefits and health care are coming to an end with or without SB5 get used to it.

You my friend are the one with the tin foil hat. with a name like jupiter why would you expect anything less. What is in a name anyway?

And that is Ytown1, I wouldn't want you to confuse me with someone else.

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11VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

By June 30th it will easily crack over a million signatures.

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12UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

SB5 will be sustained if it even gets to an November election. Anywhere from 40 - 60% of the signatures are being ruled invalid depending on the county according to the Columbus Dispatch report. That may well doom the effort.

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13Education_Voter(851 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

They'll try UnionForever. That's why supporters are getting more signatures than needed.

taxpayer1001,
You seem so well informed. Don't you know that pensions are not a part of SB5?

Pensions are not negotiated. They are set in state law, and are determined by the state legislature.

And as for the employer paying our part of the contribution -- in my dreams! That kind of perk is only for managers, not union members.

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14Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Just how much should a State Patolman,Fireman, Local Policeman,Corrections Officer make? There is a reason some of you don't do this job. Me, I am a chicken.

If he wanted the teachers union he should have said it and went after them.

No one said things can't be fixed. Gutting is not necessary.

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15SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Kasick said it publicly he was going after the teachers and their unions. auto workers and other private sector workers unions are next if successful.

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16taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Educated: I never said pensions are negotiated. But everyone knows that a large portion of what the employee is supposed to pay is covered by the employer at this time. That is what shouldn't be happening in all fairness. That equates to a heck of a lot of tax dollars.
Jupiter: I don't agree with all of this law, but unfortunately that is typical when laws are passed. There is always going to be something that not all will be pleased with. But there are other laws that were put into place that will hopefully still protect the workers.
As far as the teachers being blamed for failing students, I really hope everyone can try to understand that parenting is a huge factor in how a student does in school. If a child is not first and foremost taught respect, and then taught how important school is, there is very little a teacher can do. The kids also need to learn from example. If their parents aren't going to work every day and showing a good example, what does the child learn? This is the main reason the Youngstown schools have such a low passing rate. I'm not sure what a good system would be for raises etc with teachers, but I hope this law doesn't make the teachers the scapegoat for failing students in the Youngstown district. If that happens, they will never see raises.
We all do need to come together on this eventually and stop the backbiting. And if the signatures are being ruled invalid, we all need to sign a petition so that this can be voted on fairly. That way both sides know how the majority really want it, not just Gov. Kasich.

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17Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

IT'S THEIR MONEY AND THEY WANT IT NOW . . ..

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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18Attis(873 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

To all who signed and circulated this petition: Thanks! You are one in a million! Omni vincit labor!

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19Education_Voter(851 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Looked up the issue in the Columbus Dispatch, and got this, not exactly the tone suggested by above poster:

"...collected 714,137 signatures, more than triple the number needed to get a referendum on the November ballot."
"The signature collection effort is a record for a referendum."
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/...

You must be talking about this earlier story, almost a month ago. The Dispatch does not say the signatures are valid at a 60% range, that's the leader of the group circulating the petitions. That's why they set their goal at 400,000, which they exceeded already.

"We Are Ohio spokeswoman Melissa Fazekas said a sampling has shown a signature validation rate of about 60 percent. If that holds true, the group would have to collect about 400,000 signatures to have enough to make the ballot."
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/...


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20Education_Voter(851 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

taxpayer1001,

In the private sector jobs I have held, my employer always matched my contributions to a pension plan.

There must be plenty of people who have had the same experience and who are wondering why our own employees shouldn't be compensated as well.

Because of course, the pension payments are just part of the compensation package. We could choose to pay them more and let them save their own money.

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21Education_Voter(851 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

By the way, the amount of money contributed by the employer and the employee are also set by the state legislature.
Senate Bill 5 will not affect that.

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22AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Union forever,

Do you have a link in respect to post 14. Please share with us.

Jessiedavid,

Where are you getting this info that 40-60% are not valid? Please share with us a valid link to show us.
Thank You

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23ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

@VindyPost, (Post 13) lets give you 1 million signatures by July 30th, you are still losing by almost a 3-1 margin to defeat SB5. I also have some other bad news, how many people who signed the petition were for SB5, we want it on the ballot also so we can put this to bed forever.

By the way if you want to do some fuzzy math, 232K was only 6% of the amount of votes cast for Governor Kasich in 2010, which amounts to almost 4 million votes cast. Remember don't shoot the messenger, he may just be your neighbor, or even a close relative.

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24AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

ytown,

231,147 was orders by the state. So I am not sure what your fuzzy math remark is about.

Over 700,000 collected so far. Many more to come.

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25ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Correct AAC, that was ordered by the state, what I was showing you bonehead was that figure of 232K is ONLY 6% of the total votes cast for the Governor the last election, so I will type really slow for you,

Lets give you the 1 million signatures by July 30th, you are still losing by almost a 3-1 margin to defeat SB5. I also have some other bad news, how many people who signed the petition were for SB5, we want it on the ballot also so we can put this to bed forever.

And I repeat, how many people who signed the petition were for SB5?

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26AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

ytown1

I am very proud of your professionalism.

And by the way it is June 30th.

""And I repeat, how many people who signed the petition were for SB5?""
I do not know. Tell me. Let me guess, 50,000 teapublicans signed the pettition to help this get on the ballot, to take a chance to help sb5 get voted down. Even I give teapubs more credit then that.

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27taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm not claiming to know everything about it, but I do try to read a lot on it and also different positions on it by other citizens. I do know that there is a set amount on legislation, but I have also read many times that the employer still pays the employee portion, not just the employer portion. If that is not true, then a lot of people are under the wrong impression besides me.
Also, I do get matched by my employer for my contribution into 401K, UP TO 6%, which is fairly reasonable. From all I have read the employer for public employees pay double that or more and that is before they pick up the employee contribution. Most people I have talked to in the private sector about this get a smaller % than I do from my employer match. And mind you, the match is a % which means the puplic employees making very high wages get quite a chunk sunk into their retirement, a heck of a lot more than we do with SS! So sorry if I happen to not agree with you, but it seems very tilted. And I don't begrudge anybody making a good wage and it isn't jealousy. I just feel like many others that it is quite a substantial amount of our tax dollars to pay for the small percentage of public workers to live and retire with more than an average worker like me could ever imagine.

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28AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Taxpayer,
Also remember your employer pays 6.2% into social security. So the 6% your employers contibutes for you Plus 6.2% employers for SS, comes much closer to the % a school puts in for teachers. Now the school admin. is another story, they are the ones making out the best. However sb5 is only for 355,000 union workers. Administration will still make out the best and not be affected.

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29300(553 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Taxpayer, SB5 will not affect those administrators whose pension portions are sometimes paid entirely by the school district.

All those comments about superintendents double dipping, etc. have nothing to do with what SB5 will do, since none of those administrators are unionized. In fact, those people will be put in charge of deciding what everyone else makes, unilaterally.

There's been a ton of misinformation deliberately spread to trick people into supporting this bill. The ones being targeted are not the ones making 100K a year, it's the ones making 25-50K.

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30AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

rudy,
says "Don't patronize a business-(typical union mentality) "

If you read these boards for a while, you will find more citizens saying they will not buy union products. No GM for many of these teapublicans. Only Toyota. One stated they will not buy UNION MADE BREAD. Many stated they will not shop union stores.

It goes both ways

8.2 million voters Less then 3.8 voted last election for the Gov position.

Most will vote NO in NOvember

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31300(553 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Also, forgot to add, teachers pay their portions. Though I'm not in the education sector and I can't say for 100%, teachers pay their own portions. They always have. It's only been the administrators who have at times had theirs picked up by the school (and that won't change, since they're not unionized).

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32AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

300 very good post.

sb5 is to bust the 350,000 union members. Not the public worker making $60,000 for 24 days work. I would bet Dave Johnson pays NOTHING to insurance and retirement.

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33taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I see those are things to think about too. I really never considered the % that does go into ss also. But like I put in another story post, I really believe that our biggest problem is the admin in goverment and schools need to be the first ones to change. If the facts are correct they make a LOT more than the teachers or police/firefighters and they are getting all of their benefits paid in full. Not to mention the double dippers as mentioned above. It baffles me that more attention is not paid to that fact but all placed on the rest that are union. They also are paid by our taxes but will not change with this bill. That should be a bigger issue to all of us, then work our way down. And like I have stated, that is coming from someone leaning on the pro SB5 side. Maybe if enough of us start this going, Vindy will delve further into it and start a separate listing of what the salaries and benefits are of the higher ups that are not union.

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34AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Gov Kasich, be careful of your battles, You may lose the WAR

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/...

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35Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

More tax dollars to fund government workers so that they can keep their status quo while the lowly taxpayer deals with austerity is good for who ? Surely not for the lowly taxpayer dealing with austerity .

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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36streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

jupiter & all you comrades...

Have you ever seen anything like this SB5 furor in Ohio?

The times, they are a...changin...And all of you communists are going down with the SICK-UNION campaign of 2011.

This is your Waterloo, Gentlemen!

jupiter, you have maintained your ever-so-constant arrogant tone - lecturing us all on the economy, butterflies and fairness.

SB5 is a MANLY WAY to start tackling the problem of public unions' abuse of the little working man.

We toil and slave... while you thugs figure and figure how to leech more and more out of our wallets.

Shame on you for your arrogance.

Shame on you for your condescending tone.

Shame on you for sullying this great land with your polluted notions.

Women and children first! jupiter and your ilk will continue to streak across the heavens with your sickening swan song of a dying union movement that has finally met its match - our Great Governor!

Get all the signatures you want, SB5 will be jammed down your throats this November!

Hurrah!

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37AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Why do you refer teachers as THUGS. Very degrading.

No we have never seen anything loke sb5. We have never seen such an attack on the middle class.

Become "booksmart" and maybe you won't need to toil and be a slave any more. You will be able to make a living with an education.

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38AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

1 million on its way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.wksu.org/news/story/28644

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39jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

"Streetsmartt" (god, I love irony!!)-are you by chance developmentally challenged? You, know-somehow cursed with a learning disability? Because if you are I think its absolutely WONDERFUL and a testament to your teachers that you can use the internet to interact with society. Truly a great use of technology, allowing for our citizens with developmental disabilities to voice their opinions.
Now I understand that metaphor that good guv'nor john was referencing. When he said "Bus" it was a short one that he was inviting you to get on. He was worried that you may get run over at the bus stop.... I totally misunderstood him. That good guv'nor john-he's so special, too.... :)

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40charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

jupiter, Up to your old venomous tricks again, I see. streetsmartt is the one of the only ones talking sense on this blog.

jupiter, you have said much too much on this blog! Your true colors are showing!

How can you stand to live with your twisted views? Do you have a family that's suffering too with your anger, your hostility, your rage?

SB5 will be your final act... no more will you roam cyberspace pontificating on your warped veiws... You will be so humbled, I suspect, that you will begin to live a quiet life, a life where you can take time to examine all the ways you've gone wrong.

You're welcome... for the lessons I'm teaching you!

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41300(553 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Taxpayer, this whole SB5 issue is really just cynical politics at it's worst.

There are 2 primary reasons behind this legislation. The first, and most important, is that this is about future campaign spending. Without unions, there is no organized effort to fund Democratic campaigns. The hope is that over time that will leave the GOP candidates with an overwhelming advantage in campaign funding. Sadly, it has nothing to do with bringing government costs down.

The 2nd reason, and much more in the background at this point, is that this is aimed at helping the for-profit charter school industry. Whitehat Management, out of Akron, has pumped millions into the GOP coffers. In return, Kasich has done whatever he could to send money their way. The hope is that SB5 will lead to enough school leaders looking to low-ball teachers salaries enough that over time the general quality will drop enough to open up more markets for Whitehat's for-profit charter schools. The GOP knows that most of the affluent schools will continue to pay their teachers adequately to attract a decent standard of teacher. The hope is that there will be enough places like Austintown/Boardman/Warren/Youngstown and others whose levels will drop even more over time if a "shark" is hired as superintendent due to the low quality of job candidate who will apply for a job that starts at 17K/year. More parents will then opt to send their kids to a charter school (rather than a tuition-paying private one), and with every student making the switch Whitehat pulls in thousands of more dollars. Plus, if public teachers' salaries drop, charter schools won't feel any pressure to pay their teachers a living wage.

That's why there are so many misconceptions about the bill. There are millions to made, and elections to be won at stake; so there's lots of money behind making people think this bill will do something that it won't (namely, stop government excess).

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42300(553 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

A second reason why Kasich has also gone after corrections officers, is that he has plans to privatize the prison/jail system. Again, just like with Whitehat for charter schools, there are millions to made by corporations buying up the prisons (and proceeding to pay the officers next to nothing in salary and benefits).

They've already done some of this in PA, and they even sent a judge to prison when they found out he was over-sentencing juveniles to a for-profit juvenile facility that was then giving the judge payments for each juvenile he sent their way.

It's shameful what the GOP has become over the last decade.

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43Guin96(40 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

taxpayer1001,
MOST public employees in Ohio do not get their pension contributions picked up by the employer. The employee pays 10% into the retirement system. They do not pay anything into social security and therefore cannot collect social security unless they are qualified from having worked the required number of quarters in another job that was in the private sector. Even if this is true, their social security would be cut to next to nothing if they collect a public pension. There are SOME public employees in Ohio who do get an employer pick up of their pension contribution. Like someone else pointed out these are mostly management types (non union). Also some of the workers for Mahoning County. this is definitely wrong and should be probhibited. But it's not true for most public employees. They put more into their retirements than private sector puts into SS and if they contribute to a 401 K, the employer DOES NOT match the contribution. Like others have stated, there is a lot of propoganda being put out by supporters of SB5 to dupe the voters into believing what the governor wants them to believe and to promote hatred of teachers and other public workers and to somehow blame them for the economic woes of our state. It's all BS. Governor should be going after the management types who are abusing the system (all the superintendent double dippers, etc.) and the big corporations who are making millions yet not paying taxes. And while he's at it, how about starting in his own backyard and not paying such exorbitant salaries to his own public employees.

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44Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

http://mommylife.net/archives/2011/04...

If you want to understand better why so many states--from New York to Wisconsin to California--are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, consider this depressing statistic: Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government.

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45AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Right Stan,

The rest of us are not living in the 60s anymore. technology has taken over manufacturing.

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46SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

300, Amen brother....

The truth has been written....

CHA CHING!!!!!!

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47Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

AnotherAverageCitizen :

"Right Stan,
The rest of us are not living in the 60s anymore. technology has taken over manufacturing. "

Far to many are feeding off the system on the backs of far too few .

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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48Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Lenny owned the courts here in Mahoning County but it was the Feds who sunk his ship . Captain Lenny ratted on his associates to save his own skin . The surviving power in The Valley is the Cafaro organization .

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49Education_Voter(851 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

If you believe what has been said above about campaign contributions, then keep in mind that a man named David Brennan has funded some of the Republican legislators' campaigns -- all by himself.

It is in his interest to destroy public schools, as he runs charter and voucher schools.

Both of my statements are plain fact. You watch what has happened to public schools and charter schools in this legislative year, and make up your own mind.

By the way, I am one of the teachers who has all but lost my social security from my previous job.

What has been said is true. The 12% put in my my employer was supposed to replace the social security payment I lost plus a 6% match to the 10% I contribute. No school employer has ever made my contribution for me.

That happens only for a few managers.
They, of course, will not be affected by Senate Bill 5.

Now the Governor has changed the budget so that teachers will have only 10% of our contribution made by the employer. To keep the pension system solvent, the teachers will pick up another 2%. That take-home pay just keeps getting whittled away.

That is why it is said to be an attack on union workers only.

By the way, I know private sector workers who have the employee tax for social security paid for them by the employer. That fact doesn't make me hate a whole segment of workers.

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50streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Education_Voter,

We don't hate anybody - but when the public sector rips us off, we get mad!

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51paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

"Less people to pay taxes," Rudy56...

That's because the Supreme Court legalized abortion. Without abortion, we'd have tens of millions more people to support the greedy public sector.

Oh, sorry, I forgot - the Democratic Party is pro-abortion!

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52streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

rocky14,

No offense, but check your party's platform. If being prolife is important to you, you shouldn't be a member of that murdering party.

If being prolife is a matter of faith, your faith should be the centerpiece of your belief system, not an "add-on."

And especially, if you are Catholic, you are totally messed up if you vote democratic. I know that Catholics put Obama into the Whitehouse - but there a lot of "non-serious" Catholics out there who don't understand or who simply don't follow the Church's teachings.

Don't give me there are other important issues. Nothing is more important than being prolife, my friend.

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53Education_Voter(851 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Streetsmart said:
"We don't hate anybody - but when the public sector rips us off, we get mad!"

Really?

That's ironic. The private sector was pretty satisfied with underpaying teachers, firefighters, and police officers for a long time. My friends in the mills, then Lordstown were dismissive of guys who would take public servant pay.

But like I said, I let it go.

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54AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Rudy "" Paulparks/Another, really need to learn to READ or just get off the MEDS""

What makes you think you can read any better? What point are you trying to prove.

You think i am
brain dead
stupid
don't give a damn
can't read
on drugs

WOW I think I struck a nerve with you. Sorry you do not agree with me, But such name calling most of us stopped doing in the 8th grade.

GROW UP

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55ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

So AAC, was the "Burger King" Comment to Charms a high school level comment or just a middle school level comment?

Maybe you need to go look in the mirror and do some growing up of your own.

Just because you disagree with someone does not justify you belittling anyone or degrading the hard working people that work everyday at these establishments. They are people too and they have the ability to read the vindy.com threads also. Real big man there AAC. Setting a real great example for the others that think like you.

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56AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

There is nothing wrong with working at BK..
Charms incorrectly called me out as a teacher(which I am not) and since I did not respond to him he falsly assumes where I work and what I do for a living.

Are you charms daddy and need to fight his battles for him. Charms doesn't need your protection..

I looked in the mirror, I am Proud of who I AM.

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57charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

AAC is "Proud" of who he is...

AAC is a PUBLIC EMPLOYEE...

AAC is NOT a teacher...

What's the difference? Lazy is as lazy does...

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58AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Charms,

I hope you feel better better now.

""Group opposing Ohio's SB5 collects more than 700K signatures to put law on ballot""

Let's get back to the real issue. SB5 being voted away.

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59charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

AAC,

No way is SB5 being voted away, my public employee friend.

Your kind is trembling in their boots,

Your kind shudders with fear,

Your kind is running around like a chicken with its head cut off...

All because SB5 is going to clip your wings!

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60AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Keep up the good work GOV.

Gov. John Kasich’s popularity with Ohio voters is falling even among fellow Republican party members who helped him win election in November, according to new poll released Wednesday.

Kasich’s approval rating is so low that he is tied with Florida Gov. Rick Scott as the least popular governor in the 38 states tracked by Public Policy Polling Public Policy Polling Follow this company in Raleigh, N.C.

The poll found 33 percent of Ohio voters approve of Kasich’s job performance, compared with 56 percent who disapprove. That compares with an unfavorable spread of 54 percent to 35 percent in March.

Public Policy Polling is a Democratic polling firm, but Kasich’s popularity was waning as well in a recent poll by Quinnipiac University’s independent polling institute. Quinnipiac pegged Kasich’s numbers at 49 percent unfavorable and 38 percent favorable.

The Public Policy Polling poll said Kasich has gone from a 71-18 percent favorable rating with Republican voters in March to 58-28 percent favorable in May.

Ohio voters are also having some serious buyer’s remorse about electing Kasich last November over Democratic incumbent Ted Strickland, PPP Director Tom Jensen said in an e-mail to Columbus Business First.

“They now say if they could do it over again,” he said, “they’d vote for Ted Strickland by a 25-point margin (59 to 34 percent).” ...

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/n...

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61JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

"Most will vote NO in NOvember"

Average, just some advice. If you want to overturn SB5, you would want to vote yes - as in yes to repeal.

But I'm glad you realize that most will vote no.

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62SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

rocky14,
LOL, the crab (streetsmart) is trying to pull another one back into the pot. There is a reason Rush fans are called "ditto head's" is because a ditto is a carbon copy of another. People here read something and continue post after post make the same point over and over again without any truth to the statement. They just read it in the Vindy.

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63SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

R!@))GS,
you are assuming your taxes will go down. They will not. The best bet is your taxes increases locally and state wide and federally soon there after

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64streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

SOC,

I am not a Rush fan.

And yes, local taxes will be eased with SB5. R1200GS is correct!

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65SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Where was that written that taxes will go down....NO WHERE, IT WON"Y HAPPEN. If you believe that, I must ask, What are you drinking or smoking?

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66charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

geromajor & SOC,

Less responsibility to the public sector means more money in our pockets - whether in reduced taxes - now - or less increases in taxes in the future.

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67Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

TAX THEM TO THE LIMIT ONE MORE TIME . . ..

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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68streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

"Even with less taxes if you [public sector workers] make less you will have less to spend."

Of course, when we are talking about public sector workers as as entity, less taxes, as it translates into less income means less spending. But you are ignoring the vast majority workers (private sector) who will themselves have more in their pockets to spend with lower taxes.

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69taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I can see what those are saying about state taxes will not decrease with SB5. We will not see more money in our pockets in that way. The best we can hope for is to avoid the constant increased taxes and the surplus may be put toward the deficit. That's a best case senario! I honestly believe that is still wishfull thinking for several reasons. We have to trust and count on POLITICIANS to actually put the whole surplus toward the current deficit. Is that something everyone feels comfortable with?
Secondly, we already see what is happening in Canfield, Poland and Boardman. The BOE's are NOT going along with the progam of decreasing expenses the way SB5 is intended. They (and any public section) are trying to cut anywhere that will hurt the rest...the taxpayer. Instead of making cuts across the board by increasing all employee contributions to insurance and pension they are killing a few jobs here and there and crying that the kids will loose certain classes that are not required. And when the local levies don't pass, they are requiring pay to play and pay for the arts, and also cutting busing. Anything that hurts the kids or the parents as punishment.

If the BOE would actually act on this as SB5 intends it to, we would see no loss in these areas, but have every employee give just a little and save countless jobs and kids paying for this by cutting anything that they enjoy.

We also have every system scrambling to secure the best contract they can with supposed "concessions", which are the least they can get away with and still say that, so that they have several more years locked in before this goes through. Shame on the boards and administrations allowing this to happen. Just another example of not caring about the taxpayer.

So I really don't see a better way to handle this other than SB5 and hopefully the boards or admin in all fields will use this the way it is intended instead of threatening the loss of services, teaching, sports, busing, etc. to get their way. The sad part is I don't see that happening after reading everything there is to read about this since it was started.

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70SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

HOW WILL THEY HAVE MORE MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS? the amount of taxes you pay will remain the same. I will pay less because I will be earning less for more work. To save money, I now have to go to PA to buy clothes for work. That means even less money locally. Someone else mentioned that services will have to be cut if taxes are not raised to just maintain services as is. They are correct!
In fantasy land your thinking is correct. However, we live in reality world.

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71taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

SOC
I don't know if your last comment was meant for me, but I never said "more money in their pockets". But I have been shopping in PA for years for my scrubs and my daughters school clothes to save money. Sorry to inconvenience you that way, but there are two sides to this and everyone needs to find a way to come together. We all live in reality world.

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72jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

even if Senate Bill 5 is upheld, nothing will be done about such true waste as guys like Johnson making $60,000.00 a year for part/time work...at an appointed position. THIS is the true waste in the system....paying a livable wage to a teacher, cop or fireman is not what is wrong with the system.
...And I beg to differ: once this part of the middle class has less disposable income, the private sector will feel the pain of less people buying goods and services...call it the 'Ripple Effect.'
And in the end the only people who win are good guv'nor john and his corporate masters...

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73jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

It should be interesting to watch as the pro-SB-5 "war machine" kicks into gear...
The smart money says that the campaign ads will attempt to paint public employees as "less than american" or unpatriotic.
It should be interesting to see how the Koch Brothers spend their money in Ohio.
Another interesting point is going to be how, on the ten year anniversary of 9/11, public safety employees are going to be celebrated..and then maligned.
I believe the Chinese have a curse that goes along the lines of, "May you live in interesting times..."

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74AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I wonder how much money will be spent or already has been spent on both sides by November.

Jupiter,
dave johnson is a friend of Charms, so it is OK for Dave to make such a great amount of money for being away from his business a few days a year.

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75jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

OH, silly me!!! THAT IS RIGHT- I keep forgetting: good guv'nor john, Tom Humphries, Dave Johnson, and all the others have NOTHING BUT OUR BEST INTERESTS AT HEART...
And you know, Dave Johnson just deserves that 60K a year...I mean have you heard how he calls into Dan Rivers and whines about everything from from the cost of doing business to having to treat his employees fairly. Its a shame that slave labor has been outlawed...!!!
And speaking of Dan Rivers...its amazing how he has mastered the art of talking out of both sides of his mouth. And least Ron Verb takes a stand and defends it consistently.

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76charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

jupiter,

If the governor gave Dave Johnson's job to you, would you take it?

Enough is enough!

Teachers aren't worth (time-wise) what Dave Johnson is worth on this board. That's why his expertise is compensated they way it is.

90K cops in Boardman,

70K+ teachers in Poland and Canfield,

82k+ principals in Poland.

I think we can all see where the "abuses" are in the system.

I am proud to have Dave Johnson serve in this capacity. You should be too!

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77SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

YES CHARMS,
Dave JOHNSON"S postion is the abuse!
Cops and principals work 12 month contracts and teachers work 9month contracts. Mr Johnson will work at most 12 days spread out over 24 calendar days. Mr Johnson should done the right thing and give that salary back to the state or to the soup kitchen to help feed some public workers "if" SB5 passes.

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78grand4dad(196 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

charms, it seems to me that when it is a person you support then it is ok for them to have a public job that pays $60,000 for 12 days work and this is not an abuse in the public sector and it's ok to compensate him for his "expertise". or when it is one of the governor's cronies who he wants to pay an exhorbitant salary to (way more than the outgoing person got), that is not abuse, it is compensating someone to lure them away from the private sector because we need the "best". wow, I wonder what their public pensions will be? Or when corporations rake in billions of dollars a year but do not pay their fair share of taxes, that is ok and not abuse of anything. but when a teacher makes $50,000 a year, they are lazy, selfish, ungrateful, not worthy of the salaries they make (for only working 'part tim'), feeding at the public trough, etc., etc. I guess you and I have different perceptions of what the abuses are.

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79streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I hate to say this... but for a few high school classes - any high school graduate could teach in our school systems and do a good job!

All you need is patience and an interest in children.

Everyone knows this... so do the teachers...

That's why all the smokescreen about professionalism, etc. - to boost "society's value" of teachers.

Well, the con game is coming to an end - with SB5.

Good luck - pro-SB5 people!

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80grand4dad(196 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

ok streetsmart, let's bring in high school graduates to start teaching our children and grandchildren, just make sure they "have patience and an interest in children". anyone can do this job so we won't have to pay them much. they don't need any "professionalism" because God forbid we wouldn't want society to value them. yes, I'm sure they would do a wonderful job in preparing our future generations!!

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81charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

geromajor,

streetsmartt is right! Master's degrees in education are for the most part a joke! 3 summers of making journals, & cutting out pictures and pasting them in scrapbooks.

Continuing education is a joke too. Just attend and get a certificate. Wow, how hard is that?

Smoke and mirrors , smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors...

Teachers...Cake jobs...Great pay and benefits... bunch of cry-babies!

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82VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Charms states: (post#98)
"Continuing education is a joke too. Just attend and get a certificate. Wow, how hard is that?"

*****************************************************************************

Well, buddy...crack the books, not the pipe!

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83JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

"Dave Johnson's position is plain and simple abuse. When people were placed under other administrations such as this man people were screaming foul but this is okay. Why should everyone else be held accountable except for our ELECTED Governor. "

Geromajor and SOC, do you realize the BWC 11-member Board was created under Ohio law - House Bill 100, signed in June 2007, by STRICKLAND?

The BWC's operating income is received from employer premiums and investments, and to the tune of $2.1 Billion (probably a good idea to have some oversight).

"The BWC Board of Directors have 11 members who represent the interests of Ohio workers, employers and the public at large. The board also includes members with professional expertise in financial accounting, investments and securities, and actuarial management.

Three members represent Employers:
-One for self-insuring employers
-One for employers with more than 100 employees
-One for employers with fewer than 100 employees

Two members represent Employee Organizations

One member represents Employees

One member represents the Public

Two members are Investment and Securities Experts (and must be Ohio residents):

One member is a Certified Public Accountant

One member is an Actuary"

http://www.ohiobwc.com/basics/Boardof...

The law:

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/Bi...

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84JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

The pay is at $60k max - doesn't guarantee any of the Board will receive $60k annually.
I agree, probably too much. But the only way to change that will be to change the law - who knows, maybe it's on the agenda.
But the law states 11 Board members required. This position would have been filled by someone, at the stated compensation.

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85Education_Voter(851 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Taxpayer,

Ohio doesn't have to put saved money toward a deficit because Ohio doesn't run a deficit.

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86charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

geromajor,

Moron seems to be your chosen epithet of the day! You say I am a moron, Strickland is a moron, etc.

Is this the best you can come up with to defend your cry-baby teachers.

YES, THEY ARE CAKE JOBS!

YES, THEY ARE UNDERWORKED AND OVERPAID!

YES, MASTER'S DEGREES IN EDUCATION ARE A MOSTLY A JOKE!

YES, A HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE COULD DO IT IN MOST CASES!

And history teachers taking "vacations" for research purposes... Do you think we all crawled out from under rocks?

My educational background is not at issue. It's the overpampered teachers that I am worried about.

I didn't say the same could be said of other lines of "real" professional work, like nursing, law, or engineering.

It's just teachers who coast..

Teachers, who take advantage of the taxpayers...

Teachers, who need to learn humility and gratitude.

You are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about - but I refuse to lower myself to name-calling, which you so easily embrace.

(Maybe the teachers ought to get someone to defend them who isn't so belligerent and hostile to the private sector - THEIR BOSSES!)

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87walter_sobchak(1892 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

geromajor,
It is "principal" not "principle". I would have thought that would be known by a person with your education. I won't comment on your spelling mistakes. Sorry, but it's the principle that matters!

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88charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

geromajor,

You are really all over the board. I'll try to hit some of the high points:

(1) I never said teaching at the college level was the same as teaching in the primary grades,

(2) Dissertations? Doesn't a Master's degree just require a thesis? Sounds like a lot of the stuff you are talking about is required for a doctorate.

(3) Not that it matters, but I do not have a Ph.D.,

(4) You seem to be "too invested" emotionally in this issue. Are you a teacher? Is your wife one? Why are you so defensive?

(5) Most teachers are afraid... afraid of their unions, afraid of SB5, afraid to defend their cushy jobs. C'on, you and I both know that they got it "made in the shade."

(6) Once they are hired, they just count the days till they retire. In fact, you could say they are already partially retired - since they don't work summers.

(7) Thank you for saying that I seem smarter than others, but I sense a hint of sarcasm there - anyway, I could teach most courses in the primary grades with ease... yes, my friend, WITH EASE!

(8) Teachers are basically social workers with better jobs!

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89VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

**Germajor couldn't have said it so brilliantly! Right on Gero!

As for Sobchak and Charms...careful who you debate...you have failed to acknowledge and realize the whole picture and obsess to pick a misspelled word? Good grief!

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90VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Perhaps, if your anxiety and obsessive disorder continues see your family physician. Since your ability to comprehend is at lower levels seek Huntington Learning Center or Sylvan Learning Center for educational and tutorial purposes / assistance. We all understand College isn't for everyone.

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91streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

VindyPost,

Just like you to sully this discussion with trash like "anxiety and obsessive disorder." Please, you can do better than that.

walter & charms have made some very interesting points.

The public perception of public sector employees is at an all-time low and continues to descend.

Why?

No matter what criticism you have for the complainers - they have poked holes into that once pristine image of the "selfless public employee."

Can the image be repaired? Yes, with a contrite admission that things need fixed.

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92VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I am very concerned for them and their well-being. I am not trashing in any way. If I see one needs help I can direct the safe haven avenues. It's called OUTREACH for the needy.

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93streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Dr. VindyPost,

Thank you for your learned diagnosis.

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94VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

And you're welcome, sir. Good Day!

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95AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Walt, are you practicing to be a teacher?
It is "principal" not "principle". I would have thought that would be known by a person with your education. I won't comment on your spelling mistakes. Sorry, but it's the principle that matters!

Is that the best you can respond with? Gero gives a lot of great information.

SB5 will go away in November

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96VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

^ ^ Yes, sir. Rocky14 ! ^ ^

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97charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

rocky14, VindyPost,

Not only are teachers highly paid social workers - for the majority of jobs in the primary grades, they could do a good job with a high school diploma and a 3 month apprenticeship!

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98SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Charms,
For once I agree with you. Teachers are social workers. However, it doesn't stop there! We are also counselors, mentors, coaches, role models, and because some adults fail to, we are PARENTS to the children we teach daily.
There isn't one politician with the "BALLS" to create laws to governor biological entity to be a parent. In failing districts like Youngstown, the only way it improves is by improved parenting to assist what they great teachers of Youngstown are trying to do for their children.
So CHARMS, thanks for the praise of teachers by calling us SOCIAL WORKERS. Perhaps next time don't leave out all the other things we are forced to do without complaint before we put on the other hat we wear, the hat of a teacher.
Your arguement against SB5 is finally welcomed. THANK YOU!

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99charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

"- for the majority of jobs in the primary grades, they could do a good job with a high school diploma and a 3 month apprenticeship!"

SOC - you always ignore the most important points! If you are now claiming "multiple hats" for teachers, don't forget that a "jack of all trades" isn't an expert at any of them - and like all amateurs, they aren't worth much to society in terms of wages.

You want the mantle of "social worker," take it! But lower your pay to a social worker's pay and I'll be happy.

SB5 is the "teacher kill bill" because if it wasn't for the greed of teacher unions, the legislation wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

Call teachers babysitters or whatever you want - but pay them high school graduate wages.

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100Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Repealing SB 5 is all about more taxation . Taxpayers are asked to dig deep because their taxes are not too steep .

TAX THEM TO THE LIMIT ONE MORE TIME . . ..

impoverishing

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101SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

you want to pay me what babysitters make. I WELCOME IT. CALL THE GOV NOW AND DEMAND IT>>> PLEASE PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE!!!!!!

Have you checked into daycare lately. I think not. DAM. I pay would increase nearly ten fold. CHARMS < FINALLY YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH . INCREASE TEACHER SALARIES TO THAT OF A BABYSITTER.
The low end for babysitters/ Daycare is say $30 per child per day. I teacher six classes of 28 children a day equaling $5040 per day times 183 work days, my new salary will be $922320 per year. Thanks again CHRAMS for stating my worth as an educating, parent, social worker, etc, etc, etc.

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102SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

CHARMS
You also called a masters degree a joke. I have one simply because the republic leg. of Ohio FOCRED me to go get one to remain teaching. My father -in -law who is a doctor recently had to renew his lic. It cost he around three hundred dollars to do so. For me it costs me $220, nearly the same. I did far more that cut out pictures and make bill folds as you claim.
You seem to know a lot about the schools of education? Did you happen to funk out?! THATS WHY YOU ARE SO Bitter! SORRY DUDE/ DUDETTE< or IT.....which ever fits....don't want to offend you

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103charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

SOC,

I said that master's degrees for the most part - for education majors are a joke. Maybe not in you specific case.

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104streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

geromajor,

More cry-baby soft soap!

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105SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Streetsmart thinks if you have a rent-a-guard, he has a better chance of getting one over on one of them. NO so Smart!!!!!

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106taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I really don't understand why people are belittling teachers and what they do every day because of SB5. I have stated that I am more pro SB5, but I do believe that teachers should still be commended for what they do. I wouldn't trade places with them any day. And yes, they have to further their education and certifications on a regular basis. Please stop making it as if they do nothing and deserve no thanks or respect. ESPECIALLY the teachers in Yo. or other areas that have very little parental help. At least if kids are taught respect and have a normal routine at home they can make more attempt at learning instead of being hoodlums at school.
And that also goes for our public services. They should not be treated like dirt because of what is going on with our taxes and SB5. Remember, the ones raking us the most are above the unions sadly

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107streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

taxpayer1001,

...but the unions are what "are above" everybody. Taking advantage of school boards, bullying people - running roughshod over taxpayers.

Teachers have to answer for their union. After all, the union represents them

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108taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

What I meant by above is the admins, government elected officials, etc.

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109taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I do see what you are saying street, I just think it's wrong to say that teachers are worthless, which is pretty much what a lot are saying since all this started

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110devildog(96 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Hey Charms.....just wondering where you were educated??? Who were you teachers????

just saying.......

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111streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

devildog,

What difference does it make what charms' background is. Make your arguments on the strength of logic!

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112devildog(96 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

indirectly....the anger that Charms has toward educators reflects some of the views of SB5......

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113streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

devildog,

There are high emotions on both sides of the SB5 battle. You wouldn't expect the democrats to be the only ones vilifying opponents on a controversial issue like this.

The thing is this: when democrats call Kasich a "Hitler," that's ok, but don't you dare make a critical comment about teachers, the teacher's union or boards of education.

Perfect example of a "double standard."

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114AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Kasich mandating unionized teachers pay more for retirement and not making himself and his staff pay the same ammount is the DOUBLE STANDARD.

I understand kasich wanting public employees to contribute more to their retirement. But MAKE ALL public employees do the same. Start with the King Kasich himself and his staff. I call it LEADING by example.

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115AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

OH, SO IT IS ALL ABOUT UNION BUSTING...

FINALLY SOMEONE ADMITS IT....

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116charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

AAC,

I have never seen the term "union busting" applied in the public sector until now.

You obviously feel that everyone in favor of SB5 wants to "bust" the public sector unions. Even though SB5 was legally passed into law and will be on the ballot for the people to decide this November.

How is this "union busting" as that term is used in the private sector?

The term itself implies something illegal - when everything related of SB5 has been entirely "above board."

There are those who believe that curtailing union power is a good thing for the taxpayer - and there are those opposed on principle to every encroachment upon union power.

I don't think that thoughtful Ohioans who vote to support SB5 necessarily want to see unions busted - just tamed a little.

Unions have outlived their usefulness really. All the historic reforms prompted by unions have long ago been incorporated into legal protections. You could say that we could have used a little reduction of union power in the last 50 years - when labor caused this area to loose its manufacturing base.

The last vestige of "union power" resides in the public sector. It remains to be seen whether non-union voters will support the status quo - or chose to go in a different direction - the direction of progress for Ohio.

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117streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

"Union Busting"

Strange term for a totally legal process - as we debate the fate of SB5.

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118AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

""Unions have outlived their usefulness really. All the historic reforms prompted by unions have long ago been incorporated into legal protections.""

Somewhat True, because laws can be changed very easy. As we all know.

I can't believe you folks have never saw the term UNION BUSTING. Private sector/public sector, it doesn't really matter. Union Busting is Union Busting.

""Union busting is a wide range of activities undertaken by employers, their proxies, and governments, which attempt to prevent the formation or expansion of trade unions ""

SB5 takes away from TRUE bargaining.. Making strikes illegal. Picking only one side in BINDING arbitration takes away from bargaining on both sides.

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119streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

AAC,

The public sector unions unions are already formed, so I guess you mean that "union busting" in the current context is preventing "the expansion of [public sector] unions."

Well, I don't see why reasonable, levelheaded voters wouldn't favor limiting the expansion of public sector unions. I don't think SB5 is about that issue... It's the reverse.

By your definition, SB5 is not "union busting." See?

It's a legal, legislative, ballot box issue. You are just using the term "union busting" to incite people to your way of thinking. Very smart - confuse the issue...

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120SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Streetie,
Read the bill, its clear its union busting. Kasick Said time again, he was after the teachers union. Ask any Firemen. They (State level officals) were given a deal they refused. Kasick himself wrote the FOP and fire unions to ask for their support if they would throw the teachers union under the bus and support SB5. In return, the bill would have been re-wrote to state teachers unions only.

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121streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

SOC,

Do you have any reference to an article stating that Gov. Kasich said he was after the teacher's union.

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122AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

So kasich doesn't want to increase taxes. But he still wants the money out of your pocket.

"Gov. John Kasich has urged supporters, in an e-mail, to visit Better Ohio’s web site to contribute to the cause."

Also in gov's budget???
""DAYTON, Ohio — A provision added to the state budget bill would prevent local-level officials in Ohio from enacting bans such as those on artery-clogging trans fats in fast food restaurants.""
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story...
Gov teapub wants CONTROL. Why have local leaders when Gov tells them what to do.

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123AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Street asked,
""Do you have any reference to an article stating that Gov. Kasich said he was after the teacher's union.""

Yes there is:

Teacher's Unions
During a speech before Ashtabula County Republicans in March 2009, Kasich talked about the need to "break the back of organized labor in the schools," according to the Ashtabula Star Beacon.[50] Ohio's teachers' unions supported Democrat Ted Strickland, and after Kasich's gubernatorial victory, he said, “I am waiting for the teachers’ unions to take out full-page ads in all the major newspapers, apologizing for what they had to say about me during this campaign."[51]

Right out of john Richard kasick bio'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kas...

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124SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Thank you ACC,
it was the march 24th , 2009 edition you refer too ACC. It was well before the election.
Streetsmsarts, look it up. However, I'm sure you will put a spin of some sort on it that was not what he meant.

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125ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

AAC you cannot be serious, Wikipedia is your source, and for your information I did search for the quote by the Akron Beacon Journal and what do you think happened, nothing, it was nowhere to be found, these things are made up, overly exaggerated.

Anybody can edit the content on Wikipedia.

You have to do better than Wikipedia to be taken seriously. Unless you are SOC, which is no smarter than a rock.

Take it easy SOC just a joke. You know as well as I do that AAC should have never used that as a source to support our hatred of Governor Kasich.

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126VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Enclosed is an article from the "Ashtabula StarBeacon"

http://starbeacon.com/local/x34370139...

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127SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Egg on the face ytown1,

Thanks VindyPost for the link.

J "DICK" Kasick made this statement at a Chamber of Comm. Lunchen/ campaign fundraiser in March of 2009.

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128streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

You could make the argument that curtailing the power of the union will BENEFIT teachers:

1. The union holds the best back, by limiting raises to what is negotiated for all,

2. The union forces members to contribute, even if a member disagrees with various political positions of the union, and

3. The union standard is "protection of the weakest link" which stifles incentive-based pay.

Therefore, you could say that Gov. Kasich supports good teachers, good teaching, and the best of the best teachers in the field!

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129charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I have a question for the anti-SB5 crowd: are teachers more interested in security or quality?

Unions provide security but the best don't get rewarded and worst don't get punished. It's a polluted system.

I would think that the best quality teachers would want to be rewarded for the value they bring to the classroom.

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130SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Charms & streetie
to answer your question, BOTH. I have seen first hand what not have security can do to awesome teachers. In one year, I witnesses six teachers get non-renewed and replaced with BOE relatives that just graduated YSU. Bad teachers do not get tenure. WE ALL WORK OUR BUTTS OFF for those we serve.
Several friends thought class size limits were set by the state. That thought was incorrect. Unions fought to reduce the size of classes so we can provide each student a better opportunity to learn and become successful. If it was not for great teachers, you won't be able to write on this blog.
I have been nominated six times for teacher of the year in my district, However, I refused to take the award. Why you ask? Its my job! The only reward I need to see is when a former student or player returns/ or I run into the out and about and hear their success stories. That's enough reward for me. I know I'm successful because This happens time and again for me.
Kasick supports charter schools which equals the case for high school graduates teaching without degrees (which are required by law). If quality was Kasicks goal, he would be against charters. ONe out of three hundred are ok, the rest are worse than Youngstown by huge numbers in test scores. One district out of 600+ are failing in the public sector. Which would you prefer?

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131SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Streetie and Charms,
Your response to VindyPosts (153) link That shows Kasick is anti-labor? espescially anti teacher!

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132Education_Voter(851 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

SaveOurCountry is right. Teachers unions had professional codes of conduct before the state drafted their own to fanfare a couple of years ago.

My Ohio teachers union was always a place I could find others who would discuss new teaching methods and policy. The school administration and BoE members were bored by such inquiries. There were buses to run!

Teachers know who the real best teachers are. If they don't call out poor teachers enough, it's because the poor teachers are favorites of the Administration and BoE.

Collective Bargaining tamped down the cronyism somewhat, but it's controlled, not cured. It will flare up to the detriment of students if current trends that led to charter schools and SB5 continue.

But we're just employees. We'll still work. I commend SaveOurCountry for caring so much.

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133AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

SOC,
They ask for a link, complain about Wiki, we give them additional links, But they never comment on the real info that Kasich talks about.

Kasick says,
“I grew up in a blue-collar family in a community dominated by organized labor," he said. "I consider organized labor to be positive"

Really!! Really!!!
What a HYPOCRIT

http://www.plunderbund.com/2010/09/27...

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live

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134AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Charms, ref post 156

I am not a teacher nor do i play one on TV,

I would guess most teachers are like everyone else. They want the best teachers, but still want security. I for one, and most people I know want job security. Whether they are teachers, GM, sales, Small business, retail, everyone in concerned about JOB SECUTITY.

Many private companies are run by family and friends. Some work harder then others. Some keep their job because they are related. It goes on in the private sector also. I have seen it many times.

Tell me, are you not worried about job security? Can you get a new position tomorrow with a new company as good or better then what you do now? One that is not political, family or friend of a friend. many people are laid off or have been fired lately.

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135streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

The Governor's position on teacher unions was clear before he got elected. Apparently, more Ohioans agreed with his position on public sector unions than Ted Strickland's.

This November the public will again have the chance to either reaffirm the Governor's position on public sector unions or reject it.

When the public relations campaign in favor of SB5 gets into full swing, you will see a rise in the Governor's popularity.

I see no inconsistency in Gov. Kasich supporting unions generally (private sector) and thinking that public sector unions have too much power. I see a similar distinction being made by Ohioans this November.

When you look at recent polls and ones in the future, be sure you see the sponsor and the way questions are phrased. It makes a big difference.

SOC, congratulations on your awards! You must be one of the good teachers out there. But I still find it hard to believe that you and Education_Voter both embrace the current system - when it doesn't reward teachers based upon merit.

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136SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Merit pay on't work fairly. How do you merit the band , choir, art, gym, and especially special education teachers when there are no tests for those students? Dan Rivers thinks like you. One caller called in that used to work in a district that USE TO pay teachers on merit. The got 150 dollar each bonus. Everyone got it when it only will effect the core subject areas of math, science, social studies and English (language arts). Thus, teachers that didn't play a factor got a bonus.
Why should the choir or band teacher get some of my merit pay? How do you merit them? You fairly cannot. Now, if you want to establish some sort of bonus system like in the private sector that would play out district wide or building to building based on fair system, that would be ok, but not merit. If it was a true merit as talked about in "WAITING FOR SUPERMAN" there are district's around here where teachers would be making district wide (POLAND AND CANFIELD) would be making two or three times what they currently make.

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137vor2011(14 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Interesting that most people wouldn't have careers without the work of teachers who support and encourage students to grow and achieve... try looking at the fact that schools are now forced to monitor BMI and provide education on dating violence... WHY? because it is not happening in the home.

In a society plagued with a 52% and growing divorce rate, rampid drug abuse, and a large percentage of parents who have kids without ever thinking about the fact that they have to raise them... schools are left to pick up all of the pieces.

Are there good parents, or course.. but where are the consequences for delinquent parents. When a student misses 95 days of school.. why are the parents not fined or penalized? When a student does not do their homework... which takes place in the home... why are the parents not penalized? Merit pay for teachers, sure, as long as there are penalties for non-supportive and absent parents.

Educating students has to be a partnership between schools and families or it will never work.

Also ironic is the voice of disdain against those who teach our kids, patrol our streets, and put out our fires. Some one early on in this thread suggested that if public employees are mad about getting cuts, they can go find work in the private sector... my question is.. if public employees have it so great, why are private sector employees looking for work in the public sector.

Sooner or later, everyone will realize that if you make less than a million dollars a year in this country you are poor. We are all the working class. SB5 and all of this other nonsense is just one more way to pit all of us against eachother while the filthy rich get richer. Here we are worrying about the pay of police officers and teachers in a state where our school funding formula is unconstitutional, the governor does not live in the governor's mansion costing the tax payers millions, and our taxes are among the highest in the country.

As the census proves, everyone is leaving this state and this town. Let's chase away our teachers and saftey forces too so that the whole of our state can look like the city of Youngstown. Parking lots, old abandoned buildings, and garbage. The American Dream!

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138vor2011(14 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Do you not vote for your local trustees and BOEs to manage your local tax revenues? Are we really going to give our local powers to a state that couldn't even manage its own turnpike?

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139vor2011(14 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Another thing... as a Boardman resident and a small business owner, I have to consider what I get for my taxes at each level..

Local: Great schools, millions of dollars of scholarship monies for graduates, grammy award winning music programs, great athletic programs, great teachers, considerate and prompt safety services.

County: WRTA which travels around town with 3 people per bus, roads full of potholes, no police support for Boardman which provides the bulk of the counties sales tax, talk of charging me more for water... really.

State: Hmmmm... they take my tax dollars and build schools in youngstown and warren. I thought I already paid for schools.. oh wait I did!

Again... do we really want to turn over our local control to the state. Give each localities "elected" officials the power to set standards for their public employees.

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140SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Vor2011
I've said much of what you've said in the last three posts of yours here. I am proud to call myself a teacher. Agreed, merit pay cannot work because how does one measure the merit of band, choir, art without a "test" to cover those courses?
I would be a billionaire by now for students that do not complete homework on a regular basis. I'm not talking about once or twice per grading period, its three or four times per week. Calls go home and parents say they will look into it. Nothing ever changes. Hold me accountable? Fine, Then hold the parent accountable.
Do we hold doctors accountable when they document how patients should follow orders, but don't? No, its the patients failure to listen. So should it be with parents and students. They are two thirds of the educational process that currently is unaccounted for in SB5.

VOTE SB5 down!!!!!!!

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141streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

"If it was a true merit as talked about in 'WAITING FOR SUPERMAN' there are district's around here where teachers would be making district wide (POLAND AND CANFIELD) ...two or three times what they currently make."

SOC,

Really? Teachers making 210K a year! Dream on.

The real problem is that mediocre teachers have no incentive to improve. You can't solve that under the current system. We need a new approach. SB5 is a new approach.

Is it perfect? Probably not. But I'm willing to try something new to improve things for the taxpayers.

If some bad teachers become "road kill" where they can now coast, too bad! There is no gain without pain. And right now, only the taxpayers are feeling the pain.

Despite what SOC says, we can do better. We have a broken system. Let's fix it!

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142SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Streetsmartt,
It won't be bad teachers, but the good ones will end up as road kill. The system as a whole is not broken. Does it need some polish here or there, yes. Polish it up. If anything, society needs fixing. We need to move to a society were we don't blame someone else for our failures and take ownership of them to improve ourselves.
We should strive to earn what others have we like, not bring them down to our level because some elitist political figure that wants BIG BUSINESS to own us says that is the way we should think!

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143Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Repeal SB5 and give the peasants the knockout punch ! Government workers raises shall not be limited by the economy . TAX THEM TO THE LIMIT ONE MORE TIME !

http://www.earthside.com/.a/6a00d8345...

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144SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Hey Hulk,
I heard you ex-wife Linda just through you under the bus on national TV. LOL AKA STAN

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145charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

SOC,

You're all over the board... Why do you hate the private sector? Why?

You obviously don't care about the taxpayers - who are your superiors (bosses) because you hate SB5.

You keep shoving that tenure of yours in our faces - which makes you "untouchable."

You laugh at everyone because you are a former union boss - a Youngstown power broker.

You say you are a great teacher, but you resent the problems associated with teaching.

You, my friend seem "burned out" to me. Either improve your attitude or why don't you let some young, positive, aggressive teacher take you place?

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146SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Now I'm burned out...LOL LOL LOL LO. I just want to keep the public educated. SB5 is another stone thrown at the middle class by the elite to break down education for all. They want education just for the elite. And Yes, the governor is an elitist because his kids must be too good to attend public school. That goes for any politician that does the same!
The tenure point is solely mentioned because I don't have to fight the fight. Yes to others, Unions did drop the ball is the sense they didn't get the message out about the waste at BOE offices. However, The vindy has always been anti-teacher in nearly everything they write. So why would teachers speak up? The truth never gets printed in the town.
You fail to realize, I am a taxpaper too, so I hate myself? I think not!
I never complained about paying too much for a GM product that had beer cans in the door, or the guy getting $28 dollars an hour to push a broom. God bless them, because they have it better economicly than I do. The perks teachers have gotten over time has made it attractive. What are you going to do when quality teachers aren't coming to Ohio. Enrollment in schools of education in Ohio are down 20%. Why? SB5.
The bill that will cost taxpapers in the long run.
How?
Paying out of pocket for tutors, no reduction in local taxes, increased taxes for fire and police, roads, etc. etc . etc. Everyone wants to complain. Boardman police earning 80 or 90,000 last year. How much overtime did he/she spend because they are under staffed?
CHARMS. You are all over the board. You claim attacks on your freind Bill or Bob Johnson. Its an attack on the position, not the man. The Governor needs to live by example, not do as I say, not as I do. I am 'Joe Public" taxpaper just like you!

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147cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

174 comments on this thread and not one accurately describes why the teabagger/republicans are in favor of SB5.

SB5's only purpose is to break unions. Why? Because unions contribute to Democrats because Democrats represent the middle class.

Corporations donate to teabagger/republicans because they represent the corporations and the top 3%. That along with the supreme court saying that corporations are people and can contribute an unlimited amount to a candidate is how the teabagger/republicans will control the economy of the country for that top 3%.

So those ten years of trillion dollar tax breaks that didn't create job one are the priority over revenue that actually does trickle down to the states, counties and cities.

So all of your wishes to keep those tax cuts for the richest 3% is what is keeping communities in this country from keeping world class teachers, fire fighters, police and the rest.

It's funny how the teabagger/republicans have been hit over the head so many times they vote for the people hitting them.

Only in America.

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148Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Repeal SB5 and give the peasants the knockout punch ! Government workers raises shall not be limited by the economy . TAX THEM TO THE LIMIT ONE MORE TIME !

http://www.earthside.com/.a/6a00d8345...

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149seminole(476 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

The fear of SB5 is it makes lazy unaccountable emplyees become accountable and perform. Join the private sector, trough feeders and get paid for what you actually do, or don't do, depending on which end of the scope you are looking through. Boardman PD and Fire are perfect examples of overpaid union employees. Sorta all fall under the performance of Obama to date...maybe yall need to make trips to your "motherlands" like the Obama Mare and all her kin did on the taxpayers dime.

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150AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

seminole,

Take a good look at Govt. pay. There are police outside of Boardman. Look at most of the other police salaries. SB5ers always point to the highest paid local. Most public employees do not make what they do in Bdmn. Too bad all some people look at is the highest paid, and think all public employees are overpaid. Take a look at some of the other police districts in the area. You will find the biggest percentages of police/fire are A LOT less then Bdmn. It is a shame that sb5ersd want to say Bdmn police are overpaid, and the only way to fight it is to enact SB5 on all Public employees.

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151AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Today We Are Ohio announced all petition signatures will be delivered to the Ohio Secretary of State on June 29th, 2011. State law requires the petitions be delivered on or before June 30th, 2011. To celebrate the delivery of petitions, We Are Ohio will also hold a parade which will begin on West Broad Street near COSI and end on 4th Street at the Secretary of State office building.

“Following the unprecedented level of support to repeal SB 5, the unfair attack on employee rights and worker safety, We Are Ohio is excited to invite our thousands of volunteers to Columbus to deliver the people’s petition,” said Melissa Fazekas, spokeswoman for We Are Ohio. “While we know there is a lot of work to still be done before November, we are going to take time on June 29th to savor this historic moment and thank our more than 10,000 volunteers for their amazing work. This parade is a celebration of their monumental achievement.”

...

Last week We Are Ohio announced 714,137 total signatures had been collected in just two months. Thousands of signatures continue to be turned in each day. A final signature total will be released on June 29th at a noon press conference to be held in conjunction with the celebration parade.

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152AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

""State senators voted Tuesday to approve Ohio’s nearly $56 billion, two-year state budget bill, a far-reaching collection of policy changes that would privatize state operations, overhaul Medicaid, limit unions, ban most abortions at public hospitals and provide tax breaks on investments, income and estates.""

So much for the little man. But TAX BREAKS on investments for the RICH are provided for.

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153streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

AAC,

The reason Boardman Police salaries are always mentioned in conjunction with SB5 is because Boardman is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many overpaid teachers, cops and firefighters in Ohio and SB5 is a common sense way to stop the abuse.

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154Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

The average workingman can pay far more in taxes and still retain some dignity . Government workers find it undignified that they are being forced to hold their pay from any major increases . They find that SB5 controlling spending is totally unacceptable . Support higher spending and higher taxes ! Repeal SB5 !

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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155AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Bdmn is top tip. So ALWAYS use the Highest to show all those below are overpaid. I imagine many think the $23,376 Dispatcher in Struthers is overpaid also.

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156Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

We Are Ohio just presented 1,298,301 signatures to repeal SB 5

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157Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

AMEN Save our Country

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158HonestAbe(270 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Great job to those public employees who worked so hard to collect the over 1.2 million signatures to repeal SB5. Hope Kasich is listening!! Glad that so many realize this is nothing but a union-busting bill.

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159AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Thats only ONE MILLION more then needed. And I know many folks who never signed up but wanted to.

I know sb5ers will say 40-60% will be thrown out. SO WHAT!!!!

520,000-780,000 still valid signatures.

Just a hair over the necessary amount needed.

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160VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

*************************************************************************

*****BREAKING NEWS*****

GOOD NEWS ... GOOD NEWS ...

Raise your glass, Applauding with a standing ovation. Hurrah! Hurrah!

********************************************************************************

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.s...

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161VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago


New title to this article: (Updated)

"OHIO GROUP DELIVERS NEARLY 1.3 MLLION SIGNATURES MAKES HISTORY"

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162VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

New title to this article: (Updated)

"OHIO GROUP DELIVERS NEARLY 1.3 MILLION SIGNATURES MAKES HISTORY"

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163paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

VindyPost and all you left-winger liberals,

Bring it on, baby... See you in November! Doesn't matter whether SB5 is defeated or not - we've got you unions on the run & we aren't going to let up!

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164AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

Paul, we are so scared, please let up.

BYE BYE sb5

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165sbell(2 comments)posted 3 years, 2 months ago

I am a public employee. I do not have insurance through the state because my husband's plan is both better and cheaper. By the way, he works in the private sector. My last pension statement said that when I retire in 20 years, I will get $9,000 a year. How is that for a "golden retirement"? I will not get the Social Security that I paid into for 20 years, only 1/3 of it. So, I will be eligible for food stamps and you people believe we have it so good. You only listen to those who support SB5. Shame on you.

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166streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

sbell,

Need more information on your situation to decide whether you are a "pampered" public employee or not.

1. What is your job?
2. What do you make?
3. How long have you done your job?

We need to know this and other particulars, like your current perks and bennies to decide whether you are an exception to the "golden rule" of public employment or not.

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167Rockabilly(93 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

@streetsmartt

1. What is your job?
2. What do you make?
3. How long have you done your job?
4. How much federal income tax did you pay last year?

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168SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Streetie,
We are waiting for an answer. Or is the boss working you too hard on the deep fryer?

Why do you hate public workers so much? sbell could easily be a cleaning person? And its none of your business unless you come clean to everyone here truthfully

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169Rockabilly(93 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

I would be willing to bet that at least half of these mummies pay no federal income tax because they don't earn enough to qualify as a tax payer. They made poor choices in their finances and professions and now they want to drag the rest of us down with them. If they had a few more brain cells they would join us in the fight.

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170streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Since sbell works for me, it's he (she) who must answer personal questions about how I employ sbell. That's what Government Watch is all about, SOC and Rockability.

So again, sbell... give us more information so we can decide whether you are overcompensated or not, PUBLIC EMPLOYEE!

Otherwise, quit being such a crybaby!

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171streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

And SOC,

I don't hate Public Employees at all - just want their over-bloated compensation packages to diminish.

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172SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

So, you are a socialist. Socialists are smart. If sbell will get 9,000 in pension, I know what he/ she makes, why Don't you smartie?

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173SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

you also ASSUME sbell lives in the community you do? if not, they don't work for you at all. its very possible now isn't that possible. He/ she could work for me. If that's the case, sbell, how's 150% raise sound to you for all your hard work?

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174streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

SOC, SOC, SOC...

You have so much to learn for a teacher and we all have so little time to teach you!

sbell...

Why so silent? Change your attitude, PUBLIC EMPLOYEE! Or maybe we'll make you work in the "real world."

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175AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

STREET,

You should know how much sbell makes. You should know sbell's job title. Since you don't "YOU ARE NOT A BOSS". Get off you high horse and get over yourself. My goodness this person says how little they will make in retirement and you want to get all over them. However a superintendent making $120,000 is justified in your book.

You are not a teachers employer
You are not sbell's employer.
You are not anybody employer. PERIOD.
You did not hire anybody.
YOU WILL NOT HIRE ANYBODY.
You have absolutely NOTHING to do with human resources in the public sector.

All you are is pissed off that someone has something you don't.

If you are so proud of what you do, lets hear it. I know what you are NOT.
You are NOT a BOSS or employer of Sbell or any public worker. Your BS about SB5 is tiresome and real old.

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176VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Whew!

Looks like Street just got
"SHUT DOWN" !

Big time....

(as Trump says,
STREET, YOU'RE FIRED!!!)

OUT!

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177SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

DAMN you VindyPost....beat me to the punch.....LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL

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178Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Repealing SB5 is all about your money and they want it now ! There is no mystery in the fact that public sector employees are after wage increases and benefits during a time when the economy is taking a dive . The bottom line is that they want more of your less and less . . ..

TAX THEM TO THE LIMIT ONE MORE TIME !

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativem...

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179streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

AAC, SOC & VindyPost,

1. I am the boss of the public sector employee.
2. He works every day as my public servant.
3. I control his destiny with SB5.
4. I even control his destiny if SB5 is defeated because I vote for school levies.
5. I AM the sleeping giant, not the UNIONS!
6. I am flexing my muscles and am enjoying my power.

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180SAVEOURCOUNTRY(469 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Strretie,
You vote against every school levy in the state? If that's true, Your the reason they wanted photo ID to stop you fraud. You can go to jail for that, you know/ And hopefully it will be a private run "Pookie" and you will learn why they can it that....for sure.

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181streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

SOC,

Please! I was speaking as if "I were the private sector."

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182VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Streetie Pie,

I only have to deal with "My Uncle Sam"...and OUR American Pie.

Perhaps, get exercising at the gym and gain more muscle instead of running your mouth.

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