facebooktwitterRSS
- Advertisement -
  • Most Commentedmost commented up
  • Most Emailedmost emailed up
  • Popularmost popular up
- Advertisement -
 

« News Home

What sacrifices are YSU’s faculty and staff making?



Published: Sun, June 12, 2011 @ 12:00 a.m.

Before the board of trustees of Youngstown State University slaps another 3.5 percent tuition increase on undergraduate and graduate students, members have a responsibility to the stakeholders, including the taxpayers, to explore the issue of fairness through this question: Is it right for only one segment of the campus community to bear the burden of the institution’s financial troubles?

The answer is an unequivocal no. Indeed, based on what has occurred at YSU over the past several years with regard to contracts for the faculty and staff, the trustees should start their discussion about the tuition increase at their meeting Friday with a clear statement: We expect concessions and givebacks from all the employees in return for our requiring students to pay more in the 2011-12 academic year.

The current three-year contracts were more than generous to the employees. Notably, in the midst of the worst national recession since the late 1920s, 400 members of the Association of Classified Employees received bonuses tied to enrollment increases. It was a giveaway that made the pay raises granted to everyone on campus all the more difficult to swallow.

We were harshly critical of former President Dr. David Sweet and the trustees at the time for not taking a hard line during contract talks. We warned that YSU could not afford the lucrative wage and benefit packages, and that with cuts in state funding for higher education, the institution would be in a financial bind. We were right.

Tuition was increased 3.5 percent in the 2010-11 academic year, which has just ended, and now trustees are confronted with a projected deficit of $9.5 million for fiscal 2012. The proposed tuition increase of another 3.5 percent — it was recommended last week by the board of trustees’ finance and facilities committee — starting this fall would generate $3.2 million.

The effects

A story in The Vindicator Wednesday detailed the effects of the increase:

Undergraduate students who live in Ohio would pay $126 more — from $3,600 to $3,726 — per semester.

For full-time students living in the 10-county region considered the Western Pennsylvania Advantage area, tuition would go up $131 per semester, from $3,700 to $3,831.

Full-time students living in the 15-county regional service area in Pennsylvania, New York and West Virginia would see a $193 per-semester increase and full-time, out-of-state students outside of that region would pay $268 more a semester.

Full-time, in-state graduate students would pay $167 more per semester, to $4,956. Full-time, out-of-state tuition for graduate students would increase $172 a semester, from $4,888 to $5,060.

“It’s painful, but we can’t help it,” said Dr. Sudershan K. Garg, committee chairman.

As we’ve argued numerous times in this space, while tuition at YSU remains lower than most of Ohio’s universities and colleges, it is important to remember that the population served by Youngstown State has been economically challenged since the demise of the steel industry.

A lot of students work, and although financial aid is available, the cost of attending YSU is still out of the reach of many.

Hence, members of the board of trustees should avoid the mistakes of the past with regard to the labor agreements with faculty and staff.

Contract talks are ongoing with the faculty union and ACE, and while no details have been made public, it would be the height of irresponsibility for any employees to expect wage increases.

Private sector taxpayers, who have had to accept pay cuts, higher contributions for health care, pension freezes and givebacks of other benefits, are hard-pressed to understand why public sector employees on campus haven’t yet experienced the meaning of the word sacrifice.

What makes them such an important class of worker?

Faculty contract

Consider the three-year faculty contract that is expiring this year: For the 2008-09 school year, there was a 2.8 percent increase in the base salary; a bonus, which resulted in a full professor, for example, receiving $1,800 that was added to the base salary; an increase in longevity pay of $50 for each year of service for a member of the faculty union hired before June 1, 2008. It has been calculated that the entire first-year package resulted in an 8 percent increase.

For the second and third years, faculty members received increases of 3.5 percent to their new base salaries.

The contracts for the classified employees, professional staff, police and the increases granted administrators were just as lucrative.

In other words, the last three years have been a boon for YSU’s employees. They must know that the public now expects them to sacrifice.


Comments

1valleyred(1094 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Hahaha... Great idea by the Vindicator, but we are dealing with a union here. With Kasich's signature on SB5, do you really think they are going to give up anything when they are fighting that piece of legislation tooth and nail?!

Suggest removal:

2repeaters(192 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Well Dr.Frankstien, this monster IS YOUR CREATION. How many times have you supported levies(and these tuition increases are the by product) because, it was for the children. You used the most flimsy of excuses that since the state legislature hadn't changed the unconstitutional funding of schools, it's up to you dummies(taxpayers) to continue the funding. I like watching you do the Texas two-step on the editorial page, but it would take a real newspaper to tackle it on the front page. Using your rational, the Titanic probably would have made it to New York, if the passengers had just continuously 'bailed water', but alas, the upper class wern't willing to sacrifice and there wasn't enough poor people bailing water to keep it afloat.

Suggest removal:

3northsideperson(365 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

They have not experienced pay cuts/freezes, benefit changes, pension changes, etc YET, because the current contract was negotiated before the downturn. That means the new contract will also be out-of-whack when the economy recovers, but that's an issue for another day.

Suggest removal:

4apollo(1227 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

It's no different at YSU than it is in Boardman township. The employees at YSU and Boardman will fight tooth and nail to keep the golden trough flowing.

The difference is Boardman is trying to convince the taxpayers by scaring them into voting for another levy. See those pretty new signs, United Against Crime? United against those petty crimes I guess. Because the vast majority of Boardman crime is petty crime. But, they will show you the video of a drug house and the cops in full fledged riot gear breaking down the door. Can you say staged! Then they'll tell you about the murderer who lives amongst us.

Vote no, force them to take concessions and face the same reality private sector workers have been facing. Higher taxes will just cause more people to leave because they can't afford their property taxes. This will just accelerate the decline of property values. It's a vicious cycle.

We need more manpower but we don't need it at $90,000 a year (cops) and $75,000 a year. (firemen)

Also, there is no connection between manpower and crime. That is a fabrication of those who want to scare you.

Suggest removal:

5paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

"What makes them such an important class of worker."

Bingo! If this editorial doesn't make you support SB5, nothing will.

Suggest removal:

6jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

First, Its guv'nor John's cutbacks that have resulted in a loss of funding. Personally, I am a Y.S.U. student ("a customer") and think tuition should be raised even more!! The higher the price, the more the university will gain in "prestige."
Second, ....quit your whining. Seriously-it all gets old. Very old....And Senate Bill 5 isn't going anywhere...except into the toilet.
All you people do is bitch and moan because of your own ineffectual, pathetic lives. That is no one's fault but your own. Just because you don't have "something" does not mean that others should not have "it."
We live in a great system where if one is motivated enough, one can accomplish almost anything. You people would rather sit back and cry "taxes, whaaa, its not fair, blah, blah, blah,...." All the while living your lives of quite desperation and unfulfilled potential. The bottom line: The majority of you raving pro-SB 5ers and Tea partiers are quite frankly, losers. And you are double losers because you are duped by the Republican Party into carrying water for them. I can't wait unit November 8th....the party is over.
I also can't wait to see what happens when every YSU employee decides enough is enough and not only cancels their subscriptions but starts boycotting Vindy advertisers. Their building will make a nice addition to Youngstown State property holdings...
Like I said, I am not an employee but rather am a student. And EVEN I am sick of the nonsense. Let it go, people. Fight the real enemy.....and for god's sake try and improve YOUR OWN LIVES before you wish to damn others....

Suggest removal:

7jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

hey paulparks, no matter who loses what, YOU are still going to have to live out the rest of YOUR LIFE as YOU. Its not going to get any better being YOU...even if every public employee becomes a second class citizen-YOU are still YOU.
How about YOU work on improving YOURSELF first? Or is that such a monumental task that you don't know where to begin?

Suggest removal:

8AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

If kasich hires his staff, pays more money, its to get the best people. If oil companies makes 34 billion profit a quarter, it is fine. If retail store raises prices, it is a free market system, they you say shop somewhere else. But if Joe public taxpayer gets a raise, all h--l breaks out.

Go to another school if you don't like the tuition at YSU. Just like you wold tell me to shop somewhere else, if I didn't like their price/prifits.

Suggest removal:

9jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

ABSOLUTELY! AMEN!!!! What these wingnuts fail to to realize is that public or private, WE ARE ALL CONSUMERS. And forget the civics 101 b.s.-the ultimate policy makers of a community are not the taxpayers. Minimally the voters of a jurisdiction may have a say, but the real fuel that powers this engine is THE CONSUMER. Paulparks, Apollo, et al. gloss over that simple fact. Its been my experience that a $20.00 bill in the wallet of anyone, be they public employees or private sector employees sure looks like a $20.00 bill that would be gladly exchanged for goods and services anywhere in the private sector.....PERIOD.
Admit it boys, you guys get all amped up against public employees because quite frankly, YOU ARE JEALOUS.

Suggest removal:

10Tigerlily(476 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

I would be interested to find out not what YSU's faculty and staff should be giving up, but what the ADMINISTRATION IS WILLING TO SACRIFICE FROM THEIR OWN VERY CUSHY POSITIONS.

Where's THAT editorial, Vindy? So easy to pick on the little guy. Where's your brawn and bravado when it comes to examining this question with the people who run YSU, instead of the people who are already underpaid compared to similar universities in their ranking across the state. Why didn't you tell your readers that, huh? Maybe because you have an agenda. Maybe?

Suggest removal:

11charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Great editorial!

BUDDA BING, BADDA BOOM!

Suggest removal:

12bmanresident(597 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Just wait til the time when only governement jobs exist, and to have a public job you must belong to "the Party" and they watch your every move. 1984 anyone?

Suggest removal:

13paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

jupiter,

You are one sick puppy.

Suggest removal:

14jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

"Sick" in what way? "Sick" in the fact that YOUR OWN (and those like you) PATHOLOGY motivates you to advocate for policies that, in the long run, HURT US ALL? Wake up-YOU'RE being used. Nothing more, nothing less. "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's property..." Seems now more than ever that is applicable. The current regime is trying to play segments of the "middle class" against one another...all in an attempt at one last, mad power grab.
You guys worry about what our friends and neighbors make at YSU? Where is your umbrage and righteous indignation at CEO pay? How about our good guv'nor's folly with the boys at Lehman that cost the state of ohio @ HALF-A-BILLION dollars?
Guess what? Its not the rank and file public employees and teachers that imploded the system....If you believe that noise you are being used.
to "bmanresident"-I hope in a way you get the world that Kasich, et al. are advocating...Its gonna make a dystopian sci-fi movie look positively appealing. And the "law of unintended consequences" is going to cripple EVERYONE'S standard of living....Moral of the story? DON'T BEGRUDGE WHAT YOUR NEIGHBOR HAS. STRIVE TO IMPROVE YOUR OWN LOT IN LIFE.

Suggest removal:

15jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

All I need to know about the TEA PARTY and its supporters I learned a decade ago from pitiful excuses for human beings like TIMOTHY McVEIGH (hope its hot where you are at...) and TERRY NICHOLS....Its the same old song and dance with you people.

Suggest removal:

16WhatRUAfraidOf(85 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

As I said in another post, not ALL non-union administrators make huge salaries, and we are not getting any increases this year. I took a $10,000 pay cut to go to work at YSU. I don't like the union agreements as much as many who don't work at the university. However, they were negotiated before the economy nose-dived under DUMBYA!

The bottom line that many of you are forgetting is that union wages raised EVERYONE's standard of living 50 years ago, and once Kasich is done with the public employee unions, he's going to go after all the other unions in this state. Unfettered free enterprise without regard to the workers is no better than pure Marxism.

Suggest removal:

17paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

jupiter,

I stick by what I said. If you aren't a communist, you're at least a socialist. If you want to pay more to go to YSU, why don't you just hand out $10 and $20 bills to every employee you see? If personally attacking people on this blog "floats your boat," good for you. The bottom line is that when we go from paying 40+% of our income in taxes to 50% or 60%, we'll have achieved the definition of a socialist state. I hope you aren't majoring in education. I shudder to think of the influence you would have on kids.

Suggest removal:

18apollo(1227 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

The difference Jupiter is my neighbors property is being paid for from my pocket. I'm being forced to pay more for my benefits and the benefits of the public employee.

Suggest removal:

19300(553 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

paulparks, you're not paying anywhere near 40% of your income in taxes. If you think that you are, then I guess it's because you're not smart enough to do some simple division.

Suggest removal:

20RustOnMyBelt(112 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Well, at least we are all on the same page for once. NOT. What do you people want, ? The K Mart of Universities right here in Youngstown? The absolute cheapest deal anywhere? Its too late to stop republicans from allowing manufacturing jobs to locate overseas. Too late to demand high tariffs on the "American" goods shipped back here. Too late to push for other dis-incentives. Too late to regain THAT lost tax base. Lets, instead, point our accusing finger at those greedy public employees like YSU faculty and workers. Like turnpike workers. ODOT workers. City and county office workers. City and county health department workers. Jobs and Family Services workers. Firemen and Police.Cripe! How about ANYONE with any job worth having anymore? While we're at it lets all blame unions in general! But be careful that we don't acknowledge the fact that we make a decent living mainly because there once was competition for a good workforce from union shops that paid a better, livable wage with benefits and, so, our place of employment offered us a better wage. The plan to bring down our standard of living could not have been better, The elitist republicans have gotten us fighting each other , envying each other, racing to the bottom with each other. So lets tear down one of the last vestiges of a good, livable wage. Destroy even more of whatever is left of the tax base we have from whatever workers are left in the Valley and ignore the fact that they ,too, pay into Social Security AND pay taxes. Lets all go down together!

Suggest removal:

21jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

apollo...the solution is simple. Move to a municipality and/or state where you feel it is more "equitable" to you. Really, in the long run this area would be sooooo much better without people who subscribe to your philosophy. As for you, Senator McCarthy, oops I mean paulparks, I love guys like you that are " big damn muscular capitalists"....until you get yourself in a pickle and need MY tax dollars to bail out your little "enterprise."
You have this intense dislike for rank and file public employees...your neighbors, and much to my dismay, consumers. Do you not realize that ANY cut to middle class America translates into a cut for us all? The rich DO NOT shop on "main st., USA." The rich DO NOT buy Chevy Cruzes. The rich DO NOT send their kids to YSU. The rich DO NOT patronize the myriad businesses that encompass the "private sector" in this valley...I believe I actually have a better grasp of economics than either of you two do. The Japanese have a saying, "We all drink from the same bowl..." Ponder that while you fret over whether I am a communist or a socialist. But hey, at least a black man will never become president. Oh, wait....

Suggest removal:

22jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

paulparks, apollo, stan, and charms...explain to me how a reduction in the spending power of any segment of the population does not translate into a loss for us all? Or is it that guys like you just somehow feel you don't have to pay taxes like the rest of us...that we "little people" should just foot the bill for having you live among us rabble?
What your guv'nor is attempting to do is akin to a shell game...he is balancing the budget on the backs of those of us with the least.
Paulparks-where is your moral outrage over corporations paying no tax?
Apollo-where is your anger over outrageous CEO pay for corporations not paying any taxes, despite record profits?
Do you guys burn books in your spare time, too?

Suggest removal:

23charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

jupiter,

A loss of spending power (to the public sector) that is fueled by taxes translates into more spending power by those who pay taxes.

BUDDA BING, BADDA BOOM!

Suggest removal:

24charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

300

When you add income, sales, property & all the other taxes we pay, it's over 40%.

BUDDA BING, BUDDA BOOM!

Suggest removal:

25jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Ummmm, "Charms?" Show me ONE instance where taxes have been cut for the MIDDLE CLASS...and please, knock it off with the tag line. You are not a goodfella...not by a long shot. One of the reasons why this region is so flat is due to you (and those like you) who emulate and idolize disingenuous stereotypes.
I bet the words "I'm not book smart but I am street smart" have also come from your lips...IT's "BADDA BING, BADDA BOOM" btw- Now run along, I'm sure there are books needing banned somewhere...

Suggest removal:

26jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

and "Charms?" As the Law of Unintended Consequences kicks in what is going to happen to the private sector? Do you really think public sector people are going to spend money when they have seen their salaries (and their freedoms) gutted? Uncertainty usually causes the market contract, not expand.
This "private vs. public" argument is meaningless. BOTH SECTORS exist as symbiotic compliments to one another, comprising the MIDDLE CLASS.
It's only when discord and contempt are intended to be created that the "public vs. private" argument is brought up.

Suggest removal:

27charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

jupiter,

You are the most venomous, negative, arrogant, self-righteous blogger I've seen on Vindy.com. Some day you'll grow up and we won't have to put up with your adolescent temper tantrums.

The private sector supports the public sector with taxes. If cutting taxes means reducing salary, perks and bennies to the public sector employees, so be it.

I hope you run the state anti-SB5 campaign. Your disdain for the private sector will surely shine through.

And one more thing. If you are a public employee or studying to be one, don't forget - you work for me, your boss, the taxpayer. I don't like your attitude, employee. Better shape-up or suffer the consequences.

Suggest removal:

28charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

jupiter,

I forgot...

BUDDA BING!...BUDDA BOOM!

Suggest removal:

29paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Go get 'em, charms! You know how you can tell jupiter is a public employee or studying to be one?

(1) He whines at every opportunity about how his ilk is the last vestige of the middle class,

(2) He questions the intelligence of thoughtful people who don't agree with his radical views, and

(3) He blames "unknown bogeymen" for the country's financial woes.

Suggest removal:

30Tigerlily(476 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

That's okay. Make life worse for the public sector employees. You know what will happen? The best ones will leave. And you know what you get as replacements? Big dummies. And suddenly you don't have good firemen, policemen, teachers, etc.

Because you get what you pay for. And if you want to go cheaper than you already have, you're going to get even bigger pile of crap than you have.

Hahaha. The joke, in the end, will be on the taxpayer much more than if they'd just fixed the damned tax system instead of thinking cutting people's wages salaries and benefits is some kind of answer. Idiots. Plain and simple.

Badda Bing Badda Boom. Yeah, yeah. Cool tag line. For someone with the intelligence of a snail.

Suggest removal:

31apollo(1227 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

In the public sector, you never get what you pay for. You get the connected.

Suggest removal:

32300(553 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Paul, you can add up all those different taxes, and it's still nowhere near 40%. You're just not educated enough to understand how taxes work.

I won't take my time to educate you on how a progressive tax system functions, but you can always look it up on wikipedia. Also, look up effective tax rate.

Ignorance mixed with arrogance makes.......a typical Mahoning Valley resident approaching the "3rd age."

Suggest removal:

33paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Tigerlily,

We aren't getting what we're paying for now - with 90K policemen in Boardman and 82K+ administrators in Poland - so what's to lose? There will always be lazy people to work in the public sector.

Suggest removal:

34charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

300,

If all the taxes were collected to pay for current spending, Tax Freedom Day in 2011 would be May 23.

The Tax Foundation

May 23 is the 143rd day of the year, or 143/365 = .3917%, or...close to 40%.

Suggest removal:

35charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

300

BUDDA BING, BUDDA BOOM!

Suggest removal:

36300(553 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

So you calculate your taxes based on the number of calendar days the heritage foundation posts?

Is Youngstown missing a street sweeper?

Suggest removal:

37paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

300,

Bottom line:

(1) We're overspending,

(2) Taxes are too high,

(3) Public sector workers have it too good for our money,

(4) If we don't reign them in, we will be bankrupted.

Suggest removal:

38charms(228 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

300,

Even a street sweeper does noble work, my friend! Maybe it's not good enough for someone as gifted as you. How arrogant! And yes, our current rate of spending vis-a-vis our individual tax liability is important to me! For you not to care means you're in "la-la" land.

Suggest removal:

39300(553 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Maybe I shouldn't have made fun of a street sweeper. But I just don't understand how any intelligent adult wouldn't know how much they actually paid in taxes. That's just laziness.

I don't mind paying taxes, in fact my current tax burden is the smallest it's ever been. I'd rather have a tax increase and have nice parks and libraries than to have an extra $100 bucks in my pocket. No one wants to see taxes wasted, but it usually boils down to personal greed.

You can't take your money to the grave, but you can use it to build a nice park or pool for the kids to enjoy. Or a gazebo for the older crowd. Or a tip top local school system.

Suggest removal:

40northsideperson(365 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

If you pay money to Walmart for goods or services, does that make you the employer of those working in the store? No, not really, as you don't have an employer-employee relationship with them. So why is it that people are so quick to throw out "If you're a public servant, then you work for me, I pay your salary"?

Suggest removal:

41paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

northsideperson,

Go to the Mahoning County Auditor website to see the relationship between taxpayers and the public sector. They ARE my employees! And I don't like a lot of their attitudes. Shape up or suffer the consequences, EMPLOYEES!

Suggest removal:

42Guin96(40 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

No they are not your employees. You pay for public services through your tax dollars. This is no different than paying for private sector services through the price they charge you for the service. That does not make you their employer anymore than you are the employer ofpublic sector workers. Using your definition, public sector workers who by the way pay the same taxes that you do, would be their own employers.
This editorial is about tuition costs at YSU and the current contract negotiations with the faculty and the classified ACE employees. The board of trustee is fiscally responsible to all of us taxpayers (private and public sector) and as such they should insist that before agreeing to any contracts YSU must show how they will pay for the costs of these contracts WITHOUT further tuition increases. If they can show that, then approve the contracts. Just like any contracts in the pubic sector, the responsible boards need to show all taxpayers that they are approving only contracts where it can be shown that revenue exists to cover the costs for the life of the contract without any new revenue.

Suggest removal:

43streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

(1) Public sector employees work for the government.

(2) WE are the government,

(3) Therefor, public employees work for us.

Suggest removal:

44AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

So if I go to the store and spend money, with your attitude, those employees work for me.

Yes public employees WORK for the Govt and the citizens. BUT they are not your employees.

Suggest removal:

45computer_rick(137 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

hey, dumb-#$#@,

WE are not the government. Never have been...

We live not in a true democracy, but in a represenational republic. So, as much as folks like to think they actually have some limited "freedoms" and the ability to effect change, HA!!!!

You folks are all wrong. The USA is run by a secret organization made up of members of the Tri Lateral Commision (which is one "Lateral" more than the Bi Lateral Commision, and therefore 50% scarier!) and UNICEF! (please read Ron Paul's pamphlet, "Trick-Or-Treat for UNICEF My @$$").

Now excuse me, those $%^%$ Black-Ops helicopters are hovering over my house again. I know it, because they have stealth technology, and because of that, they cannot be seen, therefore, whenever I do not see them, THEY ARE THERE!!!

Suggest removal:

46jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Paulparks and Charms...since you feel so strongly that public employees are "YOUR SERVANTS" have the courage of your convinctions-DEBATE ME. IN PUBLIC. We will charge a nominal fee and donate the proceeds to a local charity...
But in the meantime, ponder this: In our political system, the right to vote is considered the hallmark standard of "citizenship." Paying taxes IS not part of any equation with regards to the extension of 14th Amendment rights (generally extended to citizens). With this in mind I have to STRONGLY DISAGREE with your ignorant and inciting attitude.
When was the last time that a police officer verified tax paying status before protecting you and your loved ones? When was the last time that a fireman checked your tax paying status before cutting you out of a car or putting out a fire? Again Charms, I argue that this offers a "safe" mechanism to feed your ego without all the ramifications that racially charged messages of hate would bring.
Gentlemen, your arguement holds very little water when subjected to logic. In point of fact it bears resemblence to a teenage rant. "...YOU work for me. I have no real power in my own life and have to feel superior to someone. Blah, blah, blah..."
Maybe its a good idea that the Vindy offers this website: It offers you a harmless, cathartic way to get out all that pent up anger you seem to have over your own ineefectual. impotent lives. Better you spew your hate on here than actually doing something that could hurt someone.
Again my offer stands: Let's debate...IN PUBLIC. Step up and get it on...
In closing: RESIDENTS (ie "citizens") of a community are the true policy makers...NOT TAXPAYERS. The right to vote and paying taxes are sometimes mutually exclusive conditions...but that is not the fault of the rank and file empoloyees who you seem to have a personal vendetta against.

Suggest removal:

47jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

Again, "CHARMS" and "paulparks": In your supposed worldview, one attains "citizenship" (or at least standing by paying...in this case, taxes). This, you feel, accords you "class rank" ("seniority") over other citizens ("you WORK for ME" mentality...).
Following your "logic" if I spend money supporting any business, then I become a de facto boss. "The customer is always right..."
Well, if this is the case, and you hate public employees so much...none of them will spend their money at any business that employs you or your family. It's only fair, isn't it?
THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!

"budda BOOM, budda BING"

Suggest removal:

48jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years, 1 month ago

What angers me about the disingenuous mentality that paulparks, charms, etc. advocate is how detrimental it is to us all.
As much as individuals like charms, paulparks, etc may wish to make up divisions by where a person works...the fact remains that U.S. citizenship is the base standing in our political system. Then it becomes voters' rights. Taxpaying status is further up the pyramid. Senior citizens don't pay taxes on income (for the most part) Should their right to vote be suspended. Should we run around screaming in Grandma or Grandpa's face that they "Work for me! I pay your salary...!" as paulpark's or Charm's would have us do?
Bottom line: public employees do work for the resident's in their respective communities. They are accountable...TO THE RESIDENTS. But public employees are a symbiotic half of the middle class. The private sector drives the public sector. The public sector exists out of necessity, to establish a social order in which the private sector can exist.
If you feel wages are out of line perhaps its better if we bring other's up, rather than taking the express elevator to third world nation status.
I don't know about you but the thought of local beat cops having to struggle to make ends meet somehow lends itself to all around bad situations...

Suggest removal:

49charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter, AKA Mr. Public Sector,

Glad you admit you work for me. I don't really care whether it's because I'm a taxpayer, citizen or resident. I just care that you work for me and I am your boss.

As your boss, I suggest you improve your attitude or one of my minions (your direct superiors) may dismiss you.

Suggest removal:

50paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

Debate? That's what I thought we were doing on this blog.

Suggest removal:

51streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

Who cares about the nuances of who exactly the public employees work for? It all comes out in the wash at the ballot box.

Suggest removal:

52jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

charms, that is the best you have? Charms, its misanthropes such as yourself that prove exactly why SB-5 will be defeated. "Thank you" for proving my point(s) by your engaging and sage posts.
As for being "...dismissed?" Ummmm, ever hear of the First Amendment? PLEASE, Charms....have me "dismissed." Please. Please. Please.
Talk about winning the lottery...
Alas, like most of your bellicose, bile drenched posts...just more impotent, ineffectual dribble.
Charms, I am beginning to view you as a "has-been-who-never-was."
It's all right. You need not admit it....we see you for the "Not So Lucky" CHARMS that you have been for most of your adult life.
My offer stands...Let's take it public. I await your reply.

Suggest removal:

53jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

charms...I just called your boss. We both agree that as a PAYING CUSTOMER you need to accord me a little bit of respect. Evidently he feels that you are "bad for business."
Like your boss told me: "Money is money. I don't care if it's public or private-as long as its green." He then thanked me for pointing out that one of his employees was alienating potential customers and could hurt the 'bottom line."
Look at it like this: being that you are not protected by one of those big, bad unions you will now have plenty of time to blog and rant and rave.
Enjoy.

Suggest removal:

54charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter, AKA MR. Public Sector Employee...

When do we debate? During one of your 3 months off... or how about some stupid holiday... like President's Day (holiday for your ilk, not the average working man)...or how about on one of your personal days...or do you want to wait till you retire after 30 years while the rest of us work?

I've said it before, you're one sick puppy... your rants are incoherent, repetitive, juvenile, self-pitying and pathetic.

Suggest removal:

55charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

Debate on this blog or not at all...

Suggest removal:

56streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

Reading through this blog, I take it you are a public employee, against SB5, and mad that not everybody agrees with you.

You talk tough... but your points get "lost" in your self-impressive vocabulary and meanderings. In fact, you are boring!

Like I said, I don't care how it is that you work for people because school levies and SB5 are ballot box issues.

How about a little humility for a change? So many public employees need to have their egos trimmed back to normal levels.

They've sucked the nectar out of the private sector so long they think they will forever remain privileged.

Well, the tide is turning, my friend. You can't stop it! The day of the triumph of the private sector is here!

Suggest removal:

57paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

Your days of reigning over the private sector are over!

Suggest removal:

58jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

And THAT is where you are mistaken...this is not a "public vs. private" issue. It is about "them vs. us." Shilling for the powers that be WILL NOT GAIN YOU ENTRY INTO THE CLUB. Once corporate america has their way with the public sector it's on to the private sector to finish the job...
1.) Employee pay has dropped significantly despite record Corporate earnings...
2.) The Bush era tax cuts have contributed significantly to the economic problems being experienced across the board.
3.) "trickle-down" economics does not work...The "rich" (top one percent) have ONLY GOTTEN RICHER during this period.
...Call me all the names you want but it does not change THESE FACTS. Doing away with a segment of the population that are a.) viable consumers , b.) taxpayers , c.) fellow neighbors DOES NOTHING FOR ANY OF YOU PERSONALLY. It just allows Kasich and gang to further erode the Middle Class. I almost hope you people get the world you wish for....
and "streetsmarts"? REALLY-your jealousy at any real or perceived success I may have does not "fix" the gaping failures you seem to have in your own. This "jealousy" is downright laughable...
What next? Public employees will not be able to further their education? Public employees will be told where to live? (OH, WAIT-I THINK THAT ONE GOT FLUSHED, recently...)
My advice-VOTE. But be willing to live in the world that vote creates...

Suggest removal:

59jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

streetsmartt...you want humility? I believe it was your good guv'nor john that set the tone. "IDIOTS" "Get on the bus, or get run over the bus..." Just to recall a few famous one-liners...
Further, i don't see any public employees screaming "YOU work for me, etc. blah, blah, blah..."
Seems to me that is you, my friend , who needs to learn humility. Or at least take accountability for whatever perceived shortcomings you have in your own life. Jealousy is never an attractive or useful trait. Aspire to be something more than you are today, is the best advice I can give you.
Charms, paulparks...my offer stands. A public debate-like men. Not like anonymous teenagers on facebook. Your reluctance to stand by what you type resembles another loudmouth...the strangely quiet Tom Humphries. For such a public figure (and impotent shill) he sure is absent these days...wasn't it Mr. Humphries that said 'Adults sit around a table a discuss their differences..." Of course that was before he stuck his foot in his mouth...Can't wait to see the lawsuit against the Chamber by member businesses. Tsk, tsk, tsk, Tom....should have just stuck to your job.
...And if you are so curious about my own background? Debate me. In public.

Suggest removal:

60streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

The ravings of a lunatic.

You're going down in November, my friend! You and all your cushy buddies! SB5... ALL RIGHT!

Suggest removal:

61streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

MAN-UP AND DEBATE CHARMS ON THIS BLOG! MAN-UP, MY FRIEND!

Suggest removal:

62charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

right, jupiter,

You issued the challenge. I get to choose the forum. Debate me on this blog!

Suggest removal:

63jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

Ummm....it's called NOvember for a reason. gonna be alot of NO votes cast on NOvember 8th.
YOU do not get to choose anything...and that would seem to be the crux of the entire problem.
Charms...read through my posts. It's all there for you.
As for your other friends...I cannot believe that you are so cowardly as to NOT want to debate this in person? Afraid, maybe..?
If you, "man up" (as if any of you would even understand what that entails...) as you say, and wish to publicly debate...let me know.
until the miraculous day that you actually gain a spine....

Suggest removal:

64charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

I don't intend to debate you in person. You read through MY posts, Mr. Public Employee. My thoughts are all there for you too. And I'm not alone. Wait till the pro-SB5 campaign gets underway. There are plenty of people who have had it with you public employees. You'll see. Wisconsin is just the first step.

You're an arrogant sort - a bundle of energy with no useful outlet - just hateful venom.

Suggest removal:

65jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

Not arrogant at all. I have just had it with your kind: the wingnut minority. Uneducated. Ignorant. Intolerant. Miserable. And ultimately cowardly...I will not quietly allow you and those misguided souls who have fallen for the rhetoric to lead us all down a path of economic ruin. YOU MY FRIEND HAVE NOTHING BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY YOU ARE NOTHING...GO out and EARN YOUR LIVELIHOOD LIKE THE REST OF US. But people like you, who never quite measure up, always lay the "deck is stacked against me " card down. Or spout off about this or that guy who has it "so good..." This is America...YOU can (Could have) be ANYONE YOU WANT. Instead you choose to be jealous of those who have....and that allows you to be used as political pawn in what is equivalent to class warfare.
"THOU SHALL NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY..." That translates into if you think public employees have it sooooo damn good, get off this keyboard and go be one. but the truth of the matter is YOU CAN'T...so we get the pathetic individual that you are. Always whining, always crying...never doing. Never amounting to anything.
YOU have shown yourself to be a coward...."Budda bing/Budda boom..."

Suggest removal:

66charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

See you on Election Day.

Suggest removal:

67jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

you mean Election Day, NOvember 8th...? NO-vember? NO. Vember...NO!!! Almost like it was preordained...."NO."

"Budda Bing/Budda Boom"

Suggest removal:

68jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

oh, and Charms...FYI: No matter WHAT happens-YOU will ALWAYS HAVE TO PAY TAXES....Just like WE ALL DO...
...But WE DO NOT HAVE TO SUPPORT ANY OF YOUR BUSINESSES....."THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS, ALWAYS, RIGHT..."
Not only do we vote by ballot...we vote with our wallets.
Tom Humphries is finding this out the hard way. More to come....

Suggest removal:

69AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Charms says, "Glad you admit you work for me. I don't really care whether it's because I'm a taxpayer, citizen or resident. I just care that you work for me and I am your boss."

Such ego you have just because you pay taxes just like 5.5 million other people in Ohio.

Charms, teachers have 5.1 million bosses according to your thoughts. Of course, teachers also can now be considered self employed also. They pay taxes just like you and I. Therefore with your attitude a teacher works for himself.

Suggest removal:

70AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Charms,

Does jupiter have to call YOU if he is sick and cannot make it to work?

I want to see the students reaction when jupiter tells student. Go to Charms office. Student then comes back a few minutes later and says "Mr jupiter I cannot find Charm's office"

Suggest removal:

71streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

AAC & jupiter,

You're welcome - for giving you jobs in the public sector and for making your lives so easy.

You're welcome - for the job security I've given you.

You're welcome - that I let you have the most glorious salary, perks and bennies available.

Yours truly,

The Taxpayers

Suggest removal:

72paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years ago

What is it about the term "Public Servant" that government employees don't understand?

When praising "one of their own," government employees love to say, "He was a devoted public servant."

But their devotion stops at the payroll window. Unreasonable health care benefits, intolerably easy working conditions, and a general disdain of the "hand that feeds them" makes government employees somewhat tarnished in the "high and mighty term," "Public Servant."

Can they wipe the stain away? Yes... by being grateful for all we've done for them, by making reasonable concessions come contract time and be realizing how great the sacrifice is - that is made by the private sector to enrich their lives.

Suggest removal:

73streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter, SOC & AAC, & all you other anti-SB5s...

Go paul.....public servants...what a joke...give us more wisdom...

BUDDA BING BUDDA BOOM!

Suggest removal:

74charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

Public Servant...hmm...

Many public servants make a mockery of the term. They are too cowardly to "work in the real world" and too phony to admit it. Is that you, jupiter?...

Yes, you are the one "shaking in your boots." Come out from under the protective veil of the public sector and MAN-UP by working in the private sector.

Who did you know to get your job? What political contribution did you make? Whose back did you scratch?

Suggest removal:

75ysuwin(57 comments)posted 3 years ago

People like Jupiter are what gives YSU a bad name.

Suggest removal:

76AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

""Who did you know to get your job? What political contribution did you make? Whose back did you scratch?""

That goes on in the private sector too. I see it many times. Hire a family member, hire a friend of a friend. It's too bad private and public jobs many times comes down to WHO you know not what you know.

Who said I am a public sector taxpayer? I am fighting for the WORKER public or private.

Street,
""You're welcome - that I let you have the most glorious salary, perks and bennies available.""

You LET public workers have those. That is the most self centered attitude on here. OH by the way public workers pay taxes also, just like you and I.

Suggest removal:

77charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

AAC,

Deny you are a public employee... C'on... deny it! Or you were one... or your wife is one... And the miniscule amount of taxes the public sector workers pay isn't the issue here. What about the fact that they don't pay taxes on their glorious health benefit contributions by the taxpayers?

Suggest removal:

78charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

ysuwin,

Agree with you that people like jupiter are what give YSU a bad name. (Get ready for his childish ranting and raving when he reads these posts. He really is a study in arrested development.)

CHA...CHING! CHA...CHING!

Suggest removal:

79AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Charms,
Which way is it? I keep hearing about how little public sectors pay for bene's, so by not paying taxes for little bit of income is so minimal it is ridiculius.

The tax rate is the same for public and private workers. Public workers pay property tax also. And since you say they make too much money, they probably live in a nice house and therefore pay lots of property tax.

Why don't you complain about all the TAX breaks given to HUGE companies, but you and I don't get anything like that.

Suggest removal:

80streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

AAC,

By your silence I see you are a public employee. (See charms post 81) Admit it on this blog. C'on! Admit it!

Suggest removal:

81AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Who cares where one works? I am not asking who your employer is. I really don't care who your employer is or if you even have one.

Suggest removal:

82charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

AAC,

It's obvious that not only do you work in the public sector, you are a TEACHER (Yes, that dreaded "T" word).

Why is is that teachers are so afraid of identifying themselves? Afraid of the disclosures in Government Watch?

Be proud of your salary, perks and bennies! You've got it made!

You and jupiter and SOC all have it made.

Yes, you're all welcome for the coddling,

Yes, you're all welcome for the ease.

Yes, you're all welcome for the retirement.

CHA CHING! CHA CHING! CHA CHING!!

Suggest removal:

83penguinfan1(29 comments)posted 3 years ago

Screw you Charms. I am a public employee and I went to school for 8 years to get my degrees. You did nothing to get me my job, so why should I thank you. You keep telling me you're welcome, but for what? Because the state of Ohio (and every other state in the country) pays it public employees better than private employees do? Gee, who made these policies? Well that would be politicians. Who you voted for.

The thing here is, say the public employees give back 20% of their salaries. How does that help the average citizen? Do you think you will see some of that money? Hell no, the government will send it to some other state program and you will still be you. You will still be whining about taxes, public employees and whatever else you can complain about.

Suggest removal:

84charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

penguinfan,

Nice talk, Public Employee... I am not surprised at your foul mouth. (Public employees don't like having their cages rattled.)

Voting "NO" on school levies puts money directly into my pocket in the form of reduces property taxes.

So much for prediction that the money will get lost...

Suggest removal:

85Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 3 years ago

YOU GO JUPITER!! Finally found someone who makes sense.

I almost fell out of my chair when the comment was made that "if the public sector makes less there is more in my pocket" You really think you will get a refund or a tax cut. Keep dreaming.

Suggest removal:

86AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Charms,

I missed it. Which Burger King do you work at?

Suggest removal:

87ysuwin(57 comments)posted 3 years ago

Wow you state employees have it all wrong. You don't think you work for me? HA! This is why SB 5 is out there, and why you don't deserve, and will not have, any union rights. The abuse is over. You work for me. Now make yousrelf useful for once and fetch me a sandwich.

Suggest removal:

88Winning(6 comments)posted 3 years ago

@AAC - Sing it! There are "only" 250+ community colleges and public & private colleges and universities in Ohio alone, not counting those shady for profit diploma mills that will credential anyone with a pulse and ability to pay. 4000+ in the USA. People really are educational consumers in higher ed. The poster who tried to link post-secondary cost with K - 12 public levvies is ill informer or fails to think critically.

YSU is hardly a monopoly and < 30% of operating budget comes from tax support.

Suggest removal:

89Winning(6 comments)posted 3 years ago

@ computer rick
you wrote:
" The USA is run by a secret organization made up of members of the Tri Lateral Commision (which is one "Lateral" more than the Bi Lateral Commision,"

How can you have a "tri-lateral" commission? Is that anything like a polemic of three entities? Are all three on an equal plane? Would it actually be more like a triangle or even an arrow outline? Or a rising vertical 45 degree angle line? And how do the black helocopters fit it?

This is fascinating...

Suggest removal:

90jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

hey, "NOT SO LUCKY" Charms...the offer still stands: Debate me-in public. Then we can also compare relative worth to the public/society as well. I talked to the manager at the BURGER KING you work at and he said they will cover your shift.
Get something straight-"The customer is always right...' YOU, my sad sack friend, WORK FOR ME. As long as I am a paying customer, I think your boss will see things my way...Let's go ask him.
As for 'YSUWIN:" last count was well over the required 230,000 signatures needed. More along the lines of 700,000 plus signatures...of course they all need verified and whatnot. But even YOU my "special" friend can pick up what I'm laying down...
Express your opinion all you want...but when people start "voting" with their wallets don't cry too much. TOM HUMPHRIES is finding that out the hard way. More are gonna learn as well....
This is a great Country...and we are going to keep it that way. 'NOvember"

Suggest removal:

91jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

and Charms, one last thing. If you are going to post anything, post about something you are "educated" about: Post for all of us when the McRib is coming back!!
Unless it deals with special sauce, extra cheese, or "super sizing" an order I have a feeling that you and your buddies are way out of your league. Good day.

Suggest removal:

92Winning(6 comments)posted 3 years ago

I'm in for the jupiter v charms debate!

Maybe at the Royal Oak?

Suggest removal:

93VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years ago

Charms...
Your mouth has been a "WHOPPER"! Perhaps, you have been flipping burgers way too long!
Since Burger King is where you work please ....please get the incentive and motivation to educate yourself further and broaden your horizons---enhance your ability to learn and strive for your future. You will find it quite rewarding. May you endure all the happiness life brings. Best wishes in your adulthood journey!

Suggest removal:

94jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

Charms, paulparks, streetsmartts, and the others: I ask that you understand all aspects of the issue and not just the knee-jerk, disingenuous rhetoric that you hear from would-be pundits like Franko, de Souza, and Dan Rivers. Agreeing with the falsehoods that Tom Humphries attempts to spew will not get you into his tax bracket. In fact once the public sector is decimated expect to see YOUR standards gutted.
The world that they have planned for you is one that none of us can afford to live in...

Suggest removal:

95streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter, Vindypost, Winning, et. al....

You are all very amusing - public sector workers - AKA Teacher-Wimps - teachers are primarily babysitters in your lazy world - and principals merely babysit teachers... Where are the MEN among you?... The world of slouches is chuck full of you prepubescent knuckleheads... grow up... be men... enter the rough and tumble real world of the private sector - where MEN are MEN and boys don't make it...

None of you could cut it at Burger King, my friends - maybe you can start venturing into the private sector with a lemon-aid stand...

CHA...CHING CHA...CHING CHA-CHING

That's the sound of free enterprise money flowing into the backward public sector world - where all of you are still nursing... get up and burp yourselves and be thankful we let you get away with pillaging for now...

SB5 will take away your bottles... you just watch!

Suggest removal:

96charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

streetsmartt,

Go get them! Run them down! Kick them in their lazy posteriors! Make them scream, "Uncle!"

Take them apart! Show them their future in the SB5 world!

Suggest removal:

97jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

well...all the 'real men' I've certainly ever known choose to post on a website rather than debate, in public...LOL.
For the final time-I AM NOT A TEACHER. Although I certainly do respect the teaching profession, I am not a teacher. Nor am I studying to become one. You, sir, certainly are making the case for new and unique strains of antibiotic resistant bacteria, however. Maybe even the argument can be made that you represent a new, previously undiscovered form of biofilm? One that shows sign of self-awareness? I digress, however... Should you gain courage from your convictions and wish to publicly debate, please let me know.
And streetsmartt we can then debate whether or not I am a "wimp" and what exactly you mean by that word as well...

Suggest removal:

98charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

You're not a teacher, but you are a public servant - a hermaphroditic being with womanly qualities that make you suitable to teach (or do whatever it is you do) and the manly quality of aggression - suggesting unresolved conflict (other than hermaphroditic) in your past.

I, like streetsmartt, call you Teacher-Wimp too! You slithering pool of unresolved manias... spew your venom endlessly as you try to find your place in this wide world.

And no, again - I refuse to debate you in public, Teacher-Wimp!

Suggest removal:

99jupiter(116 comments)posted 3 years ago

ok..name calling, now. Maybe we can get de souza, franko, or rivers to debate me then? Heck, I'd be up to debate Bill "60,000 thousand a year" johnson about his party's bill....mark monroe? Donovan Oneil? Tom humphries?
Yeah, just what i thought....once they are out of party rhetoric and one-liners they lack any backbone. And this is quite simply because SENATE BILL 5 is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong...just like its wrong, wrong, wrong that Bill Johnson makes 60,000.00 dollars a year for part/time work...then tries to plead ignorance when its exposed. Sure, these people have your best interests at heart.
"BILL JOHNSON...THE BEST ARGUMENT AGAINST SB-5 THERE IS..." thank you, sir.....
as for you, Charms: I won't engage in name calling. good day.

Suggest removal:

100charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

jupiter,

Ok, my friend... What does Bill Johnson's new job have to do with SB5? Didn't the job exist under Strickland? I didn't see anywhere that the governor created the position anew.

As far as SB5, are you against it because it will weaken unions? If so, how is weakening public sector unions bad for the general public? I have seen the argument that private sector unions are next but I don't see the connection or how government can interfere that way in the private sector.

It plainly seems to me that SB5 will drive down costs for taxpayers. How can that be a bad thing?

Suggest removal:

101AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Charms,
Strickland did NOT hire Dave Johnson. YOU did you are now Bill's boss, he works for you. Why in the heck would YOU pay Dave Johnson so much freaking money for 2 days a month work.

Dave Johnson's job and SB5 you ask. SB5 is about saving OHIO money, $60,000 for 24 days work is not saving OHIO money. SB5 will effect every State of Ohio employee. Thus, sb5 will/should effect Dave's OVER PAID position.

Suggest removal:

102VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years ago

Let's not confuse the 2 Johnson's

"Dave" Johnson Columbiana County Republican Chairman= Ohio Bureau of Workers' Compensation Board=appointed by Kasich $60,000 dollar salary man working ONLY 24 days a year.

AND

"Bill" Johnson U.S. Republican Representative OH 6th Congressional District newly elected seat Jan 3rd, 2011

Or.... even a better referral
" TEAPUBLICANS "

Suggest removal:

103VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years ago

Just curious...

Since Dave Johnson earns a salary of $60,000 for ONLY 24 working days...

What does the remaining 10 other board members earn? I can't fathom another 10 member @ $60,000 for ONLY 24 working days!! I could only think Kasich is rewarding them all with the same salary. Kasich appointed 3 new board members, one of the three being Dave Johnson. Certainly, budget starts here also...perhaps trim fat from these "bursting at the seams" "fed by a silver spoon" leaders correct?

Suggest removal:

104VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years ago

penguinfan1...

Yes, sir......DITTO! carbon copy

Suggest removal:

105block50(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

No outrage from this paper when Kasich hires his buddies for do-nothing jobs (24days/yr at 60k). No outrage when Kasich flies around the state on his non-stop campaing when fuel for his chopper is $5/gal. No outrage at oil companies. No problems anywhere. No problems with corporate profits skyrocketing when others suffer.Yet some working people get a raise and all hell breaks loose. Why does the little guy have to sacrifice? Let's get the lowest quality staff we can at YSU so we can pay next to nothing and Kasich can cut more. Mr. Franko has an agenda and nothing, not even the truth, will get in his way

Suggest removal:

106streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

"Yet some working people get a raise and all hell breaks loose."

You better believe it! YSU is just one little story in the big drama of the raping of the private sector by the public sector.

"YSU" is coming to mean"Young Suckers United" behind the over-the-top greed of the public servants at a once great university.

Vilify the governor all you want. The "pro-unionistas" want you to think that the governor created the mess we're in right now! He's a hero! He's one of the few governors willing to stand up for the "little guy."

My battle cry is, "Wisconsin first, Ohio second." Thank you, Governor, for your brave leadership during this economic crisis! Thank you for your attention to the Mahoning Valley! Thank you for your class and maturity in battling the overly-powerful teacher's union! Good luck with your SB5 campaign!

Suggest removal:

107taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years ago

I do read a lot about the extremely high salaries and perks going to the admin in government positions and schools that are not part of union contracts. I completely disagree with these people not having their compensation affected by this law. How is it that there isn't more importance put on those workers? They too are working off of our tax dollars and they are making the most money. I am pro SB5 but I really think we need to put more emphasis on this part of the system and try to find a way to change it. I'm not saying I know how to do it, just that it needs done.

Suggest removal:

108AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Taxpayer,

Aren't we all'

I have been saying it all along. Gov kasich should lead by example. Start with himself and his staff. Put sb5 rules into effect now for the nonunion noncontractual positions. There are many positions that can start to feel the pain just in Columbus. Remember sb5 is for ALL public workers in Ohio. Or is it all Bull and just UNION BUSTING. Gov kasich should start to "PUT UP" lead by example.

Suggest removal:

109AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Block50,

kasich flies around in a super King Air 200. A little more expensive then a chopper. Sometimes he FLIES all the way to Dayton. Wish he would drive those trips to save US taxpayers money.

Also, I wonder how many will complain once again Obama is golfing. Oh wait since Kasich went to D.C. to golf it is OK. I wonder how he got to his golf outing.

Suggest removal:

110ysuwin(57 comments)posted 3 years ago

Here's an idea. Get rid of every YSU secratary on campus, and replace them with undergraduate students who will work for tuition. It will save them millions and YSU would oporate just the same, if not better.

Suggest removal:

111AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

ysu,

You will learn that secretaries run this country. Bosses would be lost without them. They are the most under paid overworked people out there.

The worse thing that could happen is if every secretary walked out of their office.

Suggest removal:

112pwhite1027(105 comments)posted 3 years ago

Boot the secretary's and cut their retirements. There is so much overlap it is nutty. All at YOUR expense.

Suggest removal:

113paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years ago

Cut everybody from the top down 10% in salary. Then no tuition increase.

Suggest removal:

114JYompton(1 comment)posted 3 years ago

How sad is it that we sit here and fake debates over things that don't really have anything to do with us. Youngstown is bleeding from its head to its feet, and all we do is sit here and bitch at each other because we think we know each other. How about this. We are all equally s@#$ing on the city. Maybe we should spend less time bitching and more time doing something. And knowing how this website is: I went to school, I work for employers that don't give a s@4 about me, or any of my fellow employees. I don't live in the city anymore, but am planning to move back and do something about it. If you have a problem with the way govt officials are doing things, then run for that office. No one cares about what you post here on a website. People in power are going to do what they want, and won't care about anything you do. Not trying to start more fighting with all of you, but I know there are good people living in Youngstown amist all the s@#$, and there is nothing I want more than for the city to evolve into something good. How about we stop bitching about the haves and have nots, and start bitching about the I don't give a f@#$s about all of us. And for the record, I grew up poor, my family still struggles, and there is no public money coming my way, nor will there be. I'm just a red blooded american, blue collar worker who knows that all of us working together isn't going to get us anywhere.

Suggest removal:

115paulparks(235 comments)posted 3 years ago

geromajor,

I am not going to dignify your questions with specific answers. This blog isn't a political science lecture. You obviously are hostile towards my views, which is okay.

I mean communism and socialism as those terms are commonly used.

SB5 is at the crux of the great divide between freedom and dependency, between moving forward and sliding back, between American values and less than American ones.

SB5 is all that and more... When it triumphs this fall, you'll see a new beginning for the great Buckeye State!

Suggest removal:

116charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

Let's get back to the subject at hand - the taking advantage of the private sector by YSU employees.

I don't care if they have "high & mighty" titles like Dr. or Professor - they are rip-off artists.

Smooth and slick - that's how their crumby unions work - slinking around - taking advantage of the Trustees - forcing the University into the red.

Suggest removal:

117Tigerlily(476 comments)posted 3 years ago

Stupid stupid stupid. A whole lot of stupid going on in here.

Suggest removal:

118AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Maybe YSU will hire Dave Johnson and then it will be OK for professors to make a good living.

Charms says,
""Let's get back to the subject at hand - the taking advantage of the private sector by YSU employees""
Go check tuition ay Ohio State, then you will see YSU isn't so bad afterall.

Suggest removal:

119SAVEOURCOUNTRY(467 comments)posted 3 years ago

Didn't The Ohio State Univ. raise tutition 3.3%? Why. State funding was cut. Private workers don't take pay cuts until contracts are up, so way should public workers?

Suggest removal:

120charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

Roll back their raises! Make them contribute more towards their perks and bennies & lower tuition at both YSU and OSU!

Suggest removal:

121charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

geromajor,

No, but can anybody do what anybody else does? I don't care if you are a butcher, a baker, or a candlestick maker - we all have our craft - and each one of us can be overpaid or underpaid.

I'm saying that they should roll back the outrageous raises of the last few years in time of recession!

I'm saying they should "give back" for the benefit of the students!

I'm saying greed is not exclusive to non-teachers - and in fact - the YSU employees, both teachers & everyone else - has taken advantage of the private sector!

Suggest removal:

122streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

geromajor,

I think what charms is saying is that even the "good employees" should give back.

Suggest removal:

123streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

geromajor,

Really? Dr. Sweet raped YSU? I would like to know the specifics of this raping.

Suggest removal:

124Clarity(1 comment)posted 3 years ago

I'd like to ask a simple question. When it comes to a public sector employee, how much SHOULD they be making? How much should they start at? What should they be making in 10 years? 15? 20 years? Retirement? I'm curious. I'd like a serious, thoughtful answer please.

Full disclosure - I'm a public sector employee and trust me when I tell you that I am not overpaid. I have always been ok with the fact that my compensation package was "salary light but benefit heavy". (ex: my neighbor manages a local drug store, his wife stays at home with their kids and his house cost more than mine did. Both spouses work in our home). But, now I'm going to be asked to take a pay cut and pay more towards my benefits. I can tough it out for a year if I have to but I have kids to feed too. I drive a 2005 Chevy, I watch our accounts each month to make sure we have enough to pay the bills. I haven't had a REAL vacation in 5 years because we can't really afford one and I'm needed at the office. I'm not a terrible person, I'm just like you.

Suggest removal:

125AnotherAverageCitizen(1174 comments)posted 3 years ago

Clarity,
I asked that question many times. Myself, I do not feel public employees are overpaid. They can make a living but will never become rich.

Unfortunately I have never been given an answer to the question. All they say is paycut for all.

Suggest removal:

126charms(228 comments)posted 3 years ago

Clarity,

Can't answer the question without more information. Not every public employee should make the same wages.

Suggest removal:

127VindyPost(436 comments)posted 3 years ago

Clarity:
Your question:
"I'd like to ask a simple question. When it comes to a public sector employee, how much SHOULD they be making? How much should they start at? What should they be making in 10 years? 15? 20 years? Retirement? I'm curious. I'd like a serious, thoughtful answer please."
***************************************************************************
Many factors are left out...too broad. Narrowing your criteria will give a better idea of what salaries to expect. ex: job title, qualifications, education, location, etc. There are endless examples of how employment opportunities and salary rates for jobs may differ from one place to the next in the public sector.

Suggest removal:

128RustOnMyBelt(112 comments)posted 3 years ago

I have heard that over one-hundred employees will be leaving YSU through retirement before the end of Summer. If this is true, how many are there and how much would this save the university?

Suggest removal:

129streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 3 years ago

geromajor,

Thank you for your article reference.

Lavish parties? We're talking here about the president of a university.

Part of his job is entertaining and public relations. Name one president from YSU who hasn't spent money on entertaining dignitaries, large donors, etc?

Name one president who doesn't get all the perks and bennies Dr. Sweet got. I'm sure the current president is getting the same treatment.

Getting treated well doesn't mean that a president is "raping" the university, as you say. And I saw no evidence in the article or have heard elsewhere that Dr. Sweet mistreated the employees. In fact, the article criticizes him for being "too generous."

If you have a problem with all the "bells and whistles" given to the president of YSU, you should bring it up to the trustees. I'm sure they would listen to you. I know 2 of them personally. (And I know another former trustee.) These are good people - appointed by both democrat and republican governors.

The main problem, as this editorial points out is not with the trustees or the president but with the employee unions at YSU.

Suggest removal:

130Guin96(40 comments)posted 3 years ago

Please streetsmart give me a break. The main problem at YSU is most certainly with the president and the board of trustees. It is their jobs to negotiate fiscally responsible contracts with the employees. Don't blame the unions for advocating for their members. In tough times, it is the obligation of the president and board to get tough with the unions. Not unfair, just tough. Give what can be given but learn how to say NO we cannot afford it when the unions ask for too much. They need to stop trying to be buddies with the unions in order to win/retain popularity.

Suggest removal:

131taxpayer1001(274 comments)posted 3 years ago

I think that the biggest problem the private sector has with this increase is that most of us have not seen raises in years, and on top of it have had to pay more into our insurance premium with higher co-pays. I always could count on a minimum of 3% each year, but after the last three years without a raise we just got 2.5% across the board. If the raises at YSU were tamed down for these hard times and they still needed to increase tuition most people would believe it's just what has to happen.

But I do also see the point of hiring and keeping excellence when it comes to the staff. I know it was always thought of as a lower institution and that negative stigma of YSU has actually dwinded. That is a great thing for our area! We do need the excellent professors and staff to keep this going. And as many have said, money does make that happen. And we also have to remember that this is still much lower tuition than the other universities in Ohio.

Suggest removal:

132othello(8 comments)posted 3 years ago

Post the salaries of the YSU employees. You would be surprised at how many people make over$100k per year. Some teaching no classes during the school year, but getting paid $10k per semester during the summer. The public should be outraged over the policies @ YSU. The salaries of most administrators and faculty is not in line with the private sector. Hold them accountable for the fleecing of the STUDENTS and the TAX PAYERS!

Suggest removal:


News
Opinion
Entertainment
Sports
Marketplace
Classifieds
Records
Discussions
Community
Help
Forms
Neighbors

HomeTerms of UsePrivacy StatementAdvertiseStaff DirectoryHelp
© 2014 Vindy.com. All rights reserved. A service of The Vindicator.
107 Vindicator Square. Youngstown, OH 44503

Phone Main: 330.747.1471 • Interactive Advertising: 330.740.2955 • Classified Advertising: 330.746.6565
Sponsored Links: Vindy Wheels | Vindy Jobs | Vindy Homes | Pittsburgh International Airport