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‘Waiting for Superman’ was an eye-opener for school supporter



Published: Thu, June 2, 2011 @ 12:00 a.m.

‘Waiting for Superman’ was an eye-opener for school supporter

I recently attended the state- wide screening of “Waiting for Superman” at Southwoods Commons, here in Boardman. As someone, who supports our public school system and was highly skeptical of the message the movie would portray, I walked away greatly impressed and motivated to make a change.

One of the most enlightening moments of the whole film was when they talked about the D.C. city schools and the union’s reluctance to provide a choice for teachers to accept merit pay over tenure.

The deal was that teachers would get paid twice as much under merit pay, while forfeiting tenure. On the other side of the coin a teacher could choose to retain tenure and remain on a pay scale; the bottom line was teachers would be given a choice and incentive. Rather than even letting teachers exercise their democratic right to vote, the union declined to let a vote be carried out.

This film clearly champions radical change in the way we let schools operate, citing that the school system we have today was good 50 years ago, “but times have changed.”

Waiting for Superman carries a non-partisan message, pointing out that both Democrats and Republicans have made promises that have fallen flat.

At the end of the film, Gov. Kasich stated that he was interested in having a frank discussion with teachers, parents and lawmakers about how we fix education in Ohio. He said he has only talked with hundreds, but he wants to talk to thousands.

Teachers, union representatives, legislators, superintendents, boards of education and most importantly parents have an opportunity to radically change the way education works in Ohio.

I want to personally ask that every teacher, parent and administrator — for our children’s future — look at the opportunity they have to join in the constructive side of the education debate.

We need to stop “waiting for Superman” and start being the superhero for our children and our country’s future.

Jacqueline Mettee, Poland


Comments

1charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

One of the first things I learned in my "Organizational Behavior" class in college is that organizations have a desire to perpetuate themselves. This fact is why you will never get any cooperation from the teacher's union on bringing needed change to the education system.

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2Nonsocialist(710 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

There should never be any mystery as to why test scores are low, there is rampant drugs and bullying in the current educational model. The feds and the states need to forget everything they think they know about education. No true reform can occur with the current teacher's unions using their influence to further their agenda at the expense of children's education. A better system is available for far less money.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Comm...

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3SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Ms Mette,
you are right. Teachers have a reluctancy to not cheat like they did in Washington DC to raise test scores. As an educator, I have no problem being held accountable for my portion of the product. However, I speak for all teachers, I am only one third of the equation. The parent and child need to be held accountable for the other two thirds.
Simple solution to the problem facing urban districts like Warren and Youngstown to get parents and students to be accountable. Either tax parents or cut welfare to failing students. Then you will see everything improve.

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4charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC

"Either tax parents or cut welfare to failing students."

Are you saying that a student who does not do well should have a financial penalty foisted upon their parents? Your confusing the incentive system here - teachers are the only one in your 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 analysis who get paid for what they do to educate kids. You're trying to put a remuneration component to the contributions made by the children and parents. This makes no sense.

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5samIam(204 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Vote for SB5 and keep OHIO alive!!!!

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6SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms,
It makes sense. So your saying the kid doesn't need to come to school or a parent isn't accountable for the lack of attendance, yet the teacher is 100% accountable for this problem. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM IF YOU BELIEVE IS. Merit me if you merit the student and parent!

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7SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

If michael Moore made this film, would we be wanting change. Remember the educational leader in DC cheated and was caught on tests with "high numbers of easer makes". If you hold parents and students accountable just like you want to do to teachers, our education system is fixed tomorrow. In the urban school system, welfare is the gold far to often. Why? there aren't any quality jobs to go to anymore!

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8charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

You are a teacher. The system needs improvement. You seem uncomfortable with merit measurements for teachers. Students already answer for poor performance through grades and parents answer to truant officers. Maybe students who don't attend school should not be factored into merit measurements for teachers. I would think that any teacher would be opposed to the current system that only equates merit with longevity. Really, since you are a teacher - I would be interested in your suggestions to improve the system - beyond penalizing students and parents.

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9paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Any teacher who opposes merit pay ought to be in another line of work. SOC obviously has years in the system and is content with longevity pay. But his (her) cynical attitude comes off as harsh - at a time when reasonable people are genuinely working to improve things.

SOC, if you don't like teaching poor kids - move to another school district or get into a line of work where you don't have to put up with people. We need dedicated teachers, not "wise apples."

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10SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

This is no accountablility for people that create children. I don't teach in a poor district. All the kids have $400 dollar cell phones, ipad2's, etc. You just want to hold the teacher accountable and no one else.
Students and parents that don't care poor grades mean nothing and that is reality CHARMS! they only way to improve performance that everyone wants is to merit the parent along with the teacher.
The teacher of the year for the State of Ohio in 2009 who works in Youngstown even says she is against merit pay. She is an advocate,As Am I, for those she teaches daily. Lesson to her. There are so many things wrong with merit pay than are right. Perhaps I have hit that nerve and my paln would cause you or friends and family you know to become active parents in your childrens lives!

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11300(552 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Merit pay sounds good in theory, but it will never work in reality.

All those administrators who took 100K+ buyouts, retire/rehire, etc.... those would be the ones deciding who's deserving of merit. Add in the fact that in the typical school district the worst teachers are half the time football or basketball coaches who are friends with the administration, and school boards in many of the more rural areas that are lucky to even have 2 members who are college graduates, and what do you have? A system that places personal judgments over actual teaching ability.

Terrible teachers get fired every year, so there's already a process in place for terminating poor teachers. Seniority/longevity is the only objective way, since it applies to everyone equally. If a teacher wants in increase their salary a fair bit, they can get the degrees and become an administrator. God knows the schools need some decent people running the show who aren't just failed teachers who were forced out of the classroom, and into the principal's office.

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12SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms,
Students gets an education. That is the students job. If the fail at it, make it hurt. Why should MY TAX dollars, along with yours reward parents for not parenting their children to get an education?

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13charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

300 & SOC

I have personally witnessed lousy jobs done by people in education - I won't get specific to protect their identities. They just sailed along in the system doing their damage. I know what I'm talking about. Absent really idiotic conduct (like sexual misconduct with a student) - there was no practical way to make these people do better or to get rid of them. That's the problem with a longevity system.

I see the potential problems with a merit based system (how do you determine it?) but I also see that we aren't doing the kind of job educating our kids that we want to do.

You want to punish students by financially hurting their parents. I just don't see the sense in this. Some kids are underachievers, have behavioral problem or are learning disabled.

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14commoncitizen(947 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC- name us one job in the private sector that doesn't get their raises by merit increases (not counting union contracts). In the private sector you have to earn the raise and yes it is mostly based on the "boss" ---so do your job and don't pi-- off the boss!!

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15theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

"Waiting for Superman" has been debunked and discredited as a biased, unfair, and agenda driven propaganda targeting the public schools and teachers without any regard to the many students who are successful in the public schools. It further inflates charter school successes that actually are no better and in most cases, worse than the public schools. Michele Rhee herself has been discredited by the eraser scandal that popped up in the DC schools under her watch. The republicans and their voucher/charter/anti-public school puppet masters have been
brilliant in selling this nonsense to the general public who seems to be taking the bait hook, line, and sinker. It's about money folks. This crowd sees a cash cow they want to milk in the public schools. Don't be duped.

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16streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Public schools don't need "Waiting for Superman" to discredit them. Their ineptness has been shown by every study pitting our kids against kids from other countries. When will people finally learn that it is the teacher's union that stymies every attempt at real improvement?

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17theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

So streetsmartt, how do you then explain the many successful public school students who go on to successful careers and become great citizens? Or is it that the public schools have nothing to do with that. Hyperbole in the face of being uninformed is simply ignorance. The single most successful school system in the world today is in Finland. A teacher union system. So I guess that shoots holes through your argument doesn't it?

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18paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

theotherside,

Public schools always take credit for good students and always blame parents for poor students. Students in Finland attend classes for more days a year than they do in the US. Try to get the teacher's union to agree to that! ... and don't give us the "sure..., for more pay argument." Teachers are already getting full time wages for 9 months work! I am not familiar with the teacher's union in Finland - Maybe it isn't so blind to seeing ways to improve poor performance - like in the US.

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19charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

The teacher's union is the bane of today's education system, pure and simple. It creeps along... feeding its outstretched tentacles... upon hapless taxpayers... begging for more salary increases during a recession... stonewalling improvements... angling for its members to be put on a pedestal at every opportunity... devouring spineless school boards that give it whatever it wants...

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20theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

paulparks is right. Finnish students go to school longer. And their teachers are also some of the highest paid and respected professionals in the country and there isn't any merit pay system. Unlike in the US where education isn't valued and the teachers are not respected.

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21paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

theotherside,

If you think we would attract better people into teaching by paying more, then you are implying that today's teachers are substandard.

If you think that teachers would perform better if they were respected more - then you are implying that they are not professional enough to set their personal feelings aside when they work.

If education isn't valued, why all the hoopla over this movie?

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22theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

paulparks,

I am not implying anything of the sort. There are excellent teachers in the classrooms today just like there are poor ones. There are teachers who are professional in all they do and some not so. And this can be said in all professions. We don't seem to need a merit based system for doctors, etc. In other words, when a patient dies, the doctor still collects his fee, doesn't he? My point is, propaganda like "Waiting for Superman" fail to understand these dichotomies and instead stereotypes all teachers into the agenda driven pigeon hole that you and other shills for Kasich and his minions seems to latch onto. You think that all public schools and public school teachers are poor. That isn't the case. And before we throw the baby out with the bath water with political attacks like SB 5, the public would be better served considering that extremists on either side are just that. Extreme.

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23charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

theotherside,

Shills operate on the "QT" to help someone else. I am anything but a shill... And there is a merit based system for doctors and other professions: it's called quality. There is no "free market" in teaching - just the "dumb" system of longevity pay. I don't think that all public schools and all public teachers are poor. It's just that it's a poor system - with the wrong incentives, feedback, etc.

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24Education_Voter(816 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms,
There is also no "free market" in education from the teachers' perspective.
If you really have experience in education, you know that teachers cannot freely move from one school district or charter school to another without sacrificing salary that took years to attain.
So Youngstown can have the Teacher of the Year for the entire state of Ohio, but she cannot move to another district without starting back at the rock bottom beginning salary for teachers.
In fact, in times like these when proven educators have been released due to budget cuts and are applying for jobs-- Boards of Education routinely hire new graduates of questionable ability instead of them. Why? Because in this area new teachers are paid about $28,000 in many districts.
Every teacher knows the worst thing you can have when looking for a new position is your masters degree.
By contrast my friends in accounting and business change jobs at least twice in a career, each time for a higher salary.
Is this not true?
Are these habits of BOE's a sign of our nation's respect for education?
By the way, Scandinavian countries, including Finland are among the most unionized in the world, and offer the least "diversity" from their public schools. Still they produce.

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25theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

charms,

Doctors treat patients who still die. Lawyers try cases they lose. Teachers teach students who refuse or can't learn. Firemen rush to scenes where structures burn to the ground and people die. Police die in the line of duty. In each instance, factors beyond the control of the professional. I would agree that there is room for reform. But to marginalize, demoralize, and demonize teachers in the process won't work. Bringing teachers to the table and having them buy in to the reform is the key. Teachers know this. As does the union. Apparently, John Kasich either doesn't know this, or refuses to acknowledge such dynamics. Why? Because of the over-arching political goal of busting unions. That is the real intent here. An old, worn out, debunked, republican political tactic. Nothing new really. The republicans smell blood in the water and their tea party handlers want to consolidate power by defunding the democratic party of it's biggest contributors - the unions. All so they can do the bidding of the likes of the Koch Bros. who are interested in creating a plutocracy in this country. Watch what you wish for.

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26grand4dad(188 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

theotherside and Education_Voter, you both hit the nail on the head. Good posts, thank you. Stop the unwarranted attacks on teachers it's all pure propoganda.

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27Education_Voter(816 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Ms. Mettee might be interested in some figures related to the heroic figures featured in "Waiting for Superman".
Annual Salary for Geoffrey Canada, shown as "CEO" of Harlem Children's Zone charter school:
$500,000. plus
http://www.box.net/shared/4sx9plxqnr#...
(See page 24)
Michelle Rhee shown as failed union busting Superintendent of Washington D.C. schools, had the highest salary of any superintendent ever in D.C. despite her lack of experience or qualifications:
$275,000.
Severance: $140,000.
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/bl...

Both of these publicity hounds also earn hefty speaking-circuit fees.
Both have been shown to exaggerate achievement scores of students, although only Ms. Rhee outright cheated.

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28SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms,
The gas company, cable, electric company. People get raises all the time in the private sector that truly do not deserve one. Those who complain the loudest often are the worst employees Charms! the shoe fits you doesn't it?

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29SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Although its in the public sector. the governors cabinet got raises in a the mist of an $8 billion deficit.

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30charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

If personally attacking me gives you a "thrill," go ahead. My suggestion to you is to temper your rhetoric to let your arguments ring true.

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31charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

theotherside,

Except for your references to people dying, my response to your last post is: Who cares! Who cares what the motivations of people are? Who cares if SB5 hurts your union? Whether it fails or succeeds, your union's going to have to "wake up and smell the coffee." We just won't stand for the public sector "sucking the blood" out of the private sector anymore!

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32theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

charms,

Who told you the public sector is "sucking the blood" out of the private sector? Who is giving you that information? What are their motivations for giving you that information? Who is motivating you to think the way you do? Think for yourself. Quit listening to political manipulators who have designs to pit the private sector against the public sector in an effort to hide what their real agenda is. Their motivations are to divide and conquer and bust all unions and you are in fact shilling for them. If they succeed, all workers, union and non union alike will suffer, and unless you are making $250,000 a year and above, you aren't a republican.

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33charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

theotherside,

Once again, a shill acts on the QT in behalf of someone else. That's not me. Why, when somebody disagrees with your "love my union" serenade - do you automatically assume he is being manipulated by "powerfully bad people." Public unions are bloodsuckers - they feed off the private sector coolies that support their rich ways and they feed off the ignorance of their members. Public unions remind me of playground bullies - intimidate, threaten, scare... They are particularly destructive in the teacher's union - where mediocrity is king, reform nearly impossible and the longevity system "dumbs-down" the notion of rewarding merit with higher pay.

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34theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Then by your own definition, you are shilling . You are anonymous because you are "on the QT". The assumption is clear that you support the demise of the unions, which is how you are being manipulated. You are being manipulated to tout that republican party line. And your insults prove the point. Merit pay research shows that it does not work for teachers. The research is clear here. You and John Kasich would rather bury your heads in the sand of political extremism instead of facing that truth because you are both extremists. That's why 54% of the voters disagree with you. They see through John Kasich's over reach on SB 5, and his extremism. And apparently, yours as well.

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35SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms,
the truth hurts, doesn't it. The only one "sucking the blood" out of anyone is our elected officials, not workers that happen to belong to a union. You should read different media outlets and not just listen to the far right or left. Ever argument you have written here, is repeated from Rush Limbo.....proves you are a "ditto" head. You do know what a ditto is? Its a copy!

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36charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

I listen to Rush for about 10 minutes a week on my way to a weekly lunch with a friend of mine. And I disagree with his views often. My views come from my varied experiences and thinking. Yes, I feel unions have ruined this country and public sector unions are the last vestige of this archaic - harmful system. People should be able to stand on their own two feet without having some over-compensated union boss calling all the shots.

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37theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Yeah the unions have ruined this country with such things as the Social Security Act, the National Labor Relations Act, minimum wage, OHSA, Civil Rights/Title VII, 40 hr work week, working conditions, fair wages for fair work. The list goes on and on. Can't wait to hear from charms how these initiatives have ruined this country.

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38charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

theotherside,

You are confusing labor unions with legislators.

Also, all your "accomplishments" are ancient history - unions outlived their usefulness years ago.

(1) Unions have brought this "once proud" steel town to its knees,

(2) Unions have owned the Democrat Party for years - what - about 20% of the delegates to the Democratic National Conventrion are teachers, &

(3) Public Sector Unions have made the private sector hemorrage with blood-sucking taxes to feed their voracious appetites for salary increases during the recession,

If you want to live in the past... go ahead. Unions are about as useful today as a horse & buggy!

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39SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms,
name a union locally that doesn't or hasn't bargained give backs over the last ten years. You can't because they all have given back. We just haven't sold out like private sector unions that were led by Jimmy Hoffa decades ago. Theotherside is right. Unions have fought for all he wrote about. Legislators felt it was worth it to enact the laws.

Unions maintain a balance between workers rights and a companies ability to make a profit. Without unions, wages will drop by half or more, but you can't believe it. Just sit back and enjoy the fall!!!!!!!!!!!

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40charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

TEACHER UNIONS AT POLAND AND CANFIELD RECEIVED A 10% SALARY INCREASE (PLUS STEP INCREASES) THE LAST 3 YEARS.

Buda Boom!

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41paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

The focus of this blog is public sector unions, in particular teacher unions. Private sector unions through the business cycles have diminished in influence and public sector unions through the ballot box will follow suit. There are checks and balances in every system.

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42SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms,
Until SB5 becomes law, it takes to to bargain a contract. It the blame is anywhere, its with the BOE in Poland and Canfield. What do you care anyway, you don't live in both places! If Sb5 becomes law and the BOE is as bad as you say, the teachers will get want they want anyway. Remember the teachers bargain with the BOE and they have final say (IF SB5 remains in effect. However, Most workers in Ohio are smarter than the elected officials give them credit for. People see this is only the beginning of the attack on the working class. Its smart on Kasicks behave, attack the strong and the weak will fall much easier

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43paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC

"...attack on the working class"

Give me a break! Teachers are not a part of the "real working class." We all know the reasons they aren't.

Charms,

Agree with your Buda Boom! SOC doesn't answer your 10% teacher raise comment.

Buda Boom, SOC!

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44theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Cause and effect. If you do not want to pay your teachers, don't. Just be prepared for the consequences of that action. Or do you think you should receive the same level of service at cheaper costs? If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

The steel mills - the owners and their failure to modernize had as much of a detrimental effect on the industry as did labor. But labor wasn't exclusively responsible. The democrats - there must be a good reason the democrats get union support. namely the anti-union actions of the republicans. Duh. The legislature - they may have passed the laws, but it was because of labor's influence. If the unions die, so will those laws. Who will be there to make sure that doesn't happen? Kasich and his minions? Hardly.

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45paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

"If the unions die, so will those laws." "The check is in the mail." "If you turn quick - you'll see your shadow."

theotherside,

All 3 statements are FALSE. TEACHERS GET 10% RAISES IN POLAND AND CANFIELD...

BUDA BOOM!

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46streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

theotherside,

"If you don't want to pay your teachers, don't."

Great idea! I'd love to shave about 10K off the salaries of everyone in the Canfield and Poland School Systems making over 65K (including administrators!)

Then we could roll back the 10% in raises both school districts gave their teachers... I like this... then we could make them contribute more to their pensions and health insurance... Don't get me started, I see my property tax as a mere shadow of its former self!

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47theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

paulparks,

simply typing in caps doesn't advance your argument. it just shows you don't have one and instead are resorting to yelling. And if you don't believe that labor law will be threatened with the demise of the unions in this country, I'd say you are delusional.

BUDA BING!

streetsmart,

If you feel that you aren't getting your money's worth in your school system you should do as you say. Shave 10% off salaries, and the rest you mentioned. I always thought one of the benefits of living in Canfield, Poland, etc., was the quality of the schools. If you feel that the quality of the schools isn't important, cut funding. Just remember cause and effect. There are consequences to such actions. Are you prepared for those?

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48SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Streetsmart,
If you don't like the school system you live in, Youngstown has open enrollment. I'm sure they will take your child(ren). Now, make sure they are up on the latest self defense skills needed to protect ones person.

Charms,
everything you argue says why unions are needed. You complain about the 'good old boy club.' it will be far worse under SB5. I like you and you keep your job and get a raise. I don't like you and you lose your job and a raise lose.

AGAIN, state law states the district must have the money before any raises are granted spelled out in the five year forecast. Thus, the highly qualified teachers earned a pay raise in the eyes of the BOE. Vote them out. If you feel they screwed you, vote them out, don't blame the teachers. It takes two to bargain.

Also everyone is down on Dr. Zorn. Most likely the union wants to change the effective date to before the July 1st, the date SB5 may take effect. That bill states that any agreement dated after that date in not valid. Legally, when one side or the other want to change part of the contract it has to go before the membership of the union or the BOE. That is why Dr. Zorn is asking the BOE to vote on the change or not

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49charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

What are the chances the BOE is going to listen to the voters and not agree to the contract modification?... Less than zero!

BUDA BOOM!

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50theotherside(328 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

What makes you think everyone agrees with you?

BUDA BING!

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51charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

"It takes two to bargain."

Why do I feel that the taxpayers aren't represented at the negotiations?... Oh, I know - they aren't!

BUDDA BOOM!

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52SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Why is new enrollments down in the schools of education state wide 20% for this fall? SB5 is the answer. The quality of teacher coming out of college will be negatively effected, Why? why spend forty or fifty thousand in schooling to live in poverty for the rest of your life. Currently, teachers starting out with a family of four qualify for food stamps for at least 5 and often times 7 years.

SB5 will only increase public assistance among its working poor that service YOU!

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53charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

I've got the solution! Eliminate step-raises, take everyone making over 55K - take their pay over that 55K and give it to the beginning teachers.

... But no, you say!!!

That would disturb the delicate balance in the longevity system - that weights wages "UP" in later years to unreasonably "boost up" retirements!

BUDDA BING!

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54charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

"Are public school teachers lazy?

When you work 180 days vs a real job where you work 245 days (allowing for two weeks vacation and five holidays), you would need to put in an average of 11 hours/day to actually match the working hours of a full-time job. I asked this question earlier, and all I got was posts about how teachers have to grade papers at home and make lesson plans.

1- Most lesson plans are almost exactly the same as the previous year. Once you've got your agenda, what needs to change drastically? Most (not all) homework papers can be graded in less than a minute. Homework that is more complex to grade (like a multiple-page report) is not handed out on a daily or even weekly basis. This can't possibly account for 3 - 4 extra hours every single day. If it does, you're a LOUSY teacher.

2 - Some said that they worked summer school or coaching jobs - those pay extra. It's like getting a second job anywhere else. They don't count.

3 - Some actually included information about how early they get up or how far they travel - NOT RELEVANT. Most people have commute time and have morning preparations.

What I want to know is why do so many teachers continue to whine and whine and blame all their failures on a lack of money in the system? Private schools can do a better job with half the money. I'm sick of my taxes going up year after year to pay for this extremely inferior product.

Teachers, please explain why you can't do the job better when you have more than twice the money per student. My only explanation is that you're lazy, you don't care, and you don't have to do a good job because you have tenure.

If teaching is so underpaid and horrible, why didn't you choose a different major in college?"

From Yahoo Answers to the question: are teachers lazy? - Google Search Results

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55paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Great, Charms!

You forgot: BUDDA BING, BUDDA BOOM!

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56SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

CHARMS,
Private school pick choose who goes to their school. the public school has no choice in the matter. The public school must education the best and worst "you" send us without a second guess. Private schools kick out the low achievers and disruptive problems. SO try another argument please.

Again, I may teach the same subject each year, my lessons are not the same because I need it to fit the needs of my students.

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57paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

That's why they're called "Public Schools." The system is set up to deliver services to all children, regardless of ability. Each child is entitled by federal law to a "free appropriate public education." This is a sacred right. Don't denigrate it by putting that right down.

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58SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

you must have missed the point, PAULPERKS. private schools like mooney and ursuline locally take two kinds of students, high achievers and athletes. I know for a fact countless cases where a family has a good athletic child and one that is boardline special ed. they take the one but not the other.

public schools do not have the ability. yet the accountability for both siblings achievement level is the same in the publics eyes. thus private schools look better on paper. trust me the have the same quality teachers as the public schools.

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59streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

I don't think the public schools suffer so much in the public's eyes in comparison to private schools. I think they suffer when compared to schools in other countries.

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60SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Streetsmartt,
Are you aware that "other' countries don't educate the masses as we do in this country. If you don't make the cut, you given a shovel and told to dig. SO, those who want to compare our educational system to other countries, you simply can't do it. If you measure our top ten percent with the rest of the world, we are on top!

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61paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Is that true?... that if you measure our top 10% with the top 10% in other countries, we come out on top?

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62devildog(90 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Paulparks.....you work in the 'private sector" and read and comment on vindy.com all day.......hmmmmmmm

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63charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

The differences between the public and private sector:

(1) The private sector supports the public sector; the public sector leeches off the private sector,

(2) The private sector labors quietly to make a living; the public sector works boastfully to make a "killing" (in retirement, perks and bennies)

(3) The major goal of the private sector is to make ends meet: the major goal of the public sector is to jack-up taxes,

and

(4) The private sector works until May to support the public sector; the public sector workers are lazy all year long.

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64paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

charms,

BUDDA BING - BUDDA BOOM!!!

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65rumppy(106 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

good points from everyone and bad. like the discussions. how about bringing jobs to the area? I bet that would help alot of the problems. What worked 50-60 years ago may not be the solution today. Repubilcan/Democrats!!!!!!!!!! forget the parties. Do whats right for the masses.

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66Education_Voter(816 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Paul,
If we could take the test scores of states like Massachusetts, Ohio, Wisconsin, -- basically any northern or midwestern state -- we could beat those foreign nations handily. (Individually, states already do.)

But, the U.S. has to include scores from states like Nevada, South Carolina, Alabama, etc. in our scores averages.

Why can't teachers do better with more money?
First of all they do. Academic courses and tests are harder than they used to be.

Secondly, this is what I face yearly.
See video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvvTkV...
I wouldn't react like this teacher does, but the entitled, aggressive behavior of the students is the same.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsa...

"The student licked a classroom window and left saliva, Tison said. Hadsock and another teacher asked the boy to clean the window, and he refused. Hadsock told him to go to the principal's office.

At that, the student launched a verbal assault, calling her a "f---ing c---" as he walked across the room toward her in what Hadsock felt was a menacing manner, [until she was pinned up against a closed door with him still pressing.]

The video picks up from there.

"Step back right now!" Hadsock shouts.

But instead of stepping back, the student steps forward. "

The schools don't teach kids to act like this, their parents do.

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67charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Wow!...

If all the taxes were collected to pay for current spending, Tax Freedom Day in 2011 would be May 23.

The Tax Foundation

May 23 is the 143rd day of the year, or 143/365 = .3917%, or...close to 40%!

We are on our way to becoming a socialist state & teacher overspending is leading the way!

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68SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms
you are funny. The scary thing, I think you believe that teachers are the problem with Government spending. State taxes are around two percent. If you live or work in Youngstown you pay more in taxes to Youngstown than the state of Ohio. Federally, you should be paying around 28%. The federal gov't is what is out of hand.
If we did not pay a dime out to illegal aliens (not marsians Charms...lol) all levels of government would be at a surplus. That's the problem, not police, fire, and teachers....or clerks of court workers, etc, etc. etc.
Remember this fact, public employees buy things at local businesses too. If SB5 passes, the economy of Ohio will be like the Titanic, sunk! New car sells will be cut along with home remodels and other things people do with their money. Your home value will suffer even more in the cheapest housing market in the country.
If public workers incomes are cut nearly in half, mark my words will happen (willing to bet you a coffee on it) so will Ohio as Kasick and friends make millions riding off to green pastures

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69SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Education_voter,
perhaps superman will save teachers from the abuse from all sides and let us do our job. What's the difference between an inner city teacher and a cop?

The cop can carry a gun....So lets cut their wages

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70questions(4 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Food for thought: Ninety-three percent of the 195 graduating seniors are going to college and, collectively, are receiving $3,858,000 in scholarships, more than any other graduating class from PSHS. Also, Poland is an excellent with distinction school district.

Statistically they have a higher than the national average attending colleges and scholarship awards.

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71charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

questions,

With the cost of college going up every year, they should be getting the most scholarship money of any PSHS class. So what?

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72SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms, Scholarships are best on the achievements of the student, not the cost of college. College costs have gone up because state and federal aid to public schools have been cut by more than half over the last 20 years. That loss has to be pushed on to the consumer.
Charms, How much does walmart, sears, macy's, and the list goes on pay for gas? Nothing is the answer. You and I pay for it for them. Its call passing on the cost.
everyone wants gov't to act like the business world and they are by passing the costs on to the consumer.

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73streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Charms,

You can't separate costs from the determination of scholarship amounts. To think otherwise is just silly.

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74streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

Previous post was for you. Sorry!

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75SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Streetsmartt,
the point is, everyone (charms included) wants to blame unions for the increased costs of college. Scholarships awarded are not based on the cost of colleges . Its based on the academic achievements of the students with the teachers guidance.
Facts are facts, college cost have gone up because aid to colleges have been cut by the state and federal government, not public unions.
When I started at YSU in 1987, it was $465 per quarter. Thus just under 1500 a year. three and a half years later, it was nearly 900 per quarter. The unions didn't cause that then nor now. It was President Reagan and Bush that cut federal aid to public Universities and colleges, the same thing that continues today.
Congratulations to the hard working teachers of Poland for giving those students an opportunity to help pa for a quality college education! To the Poland students, job well done. Your parents should be proud. Their taxes dollars well spent.
People need to remember, education is an investment in the future, not a burden in the present.

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76charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

How can you say that, "Scholarships awarded are not based on the cost of colleges?"

Where is your cite to a source for this information? Do you mean to suggest that there hasn't been an inflation in scholarships to go along with the inflation of college costs? How can you say that?

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77HSG(92 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

All of you on this blog so breathlessly promoting "Waiting for Superman" need a reality check.
Read :
Race to the Bottom: The Problem with Innovation in Schools.

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78SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

What put a bad taste for teachers in this country is altra- liberalism. When they unbolted the desks from the floors and stopped (made it illegal) to say a morning prayer, that screwed up education. Along with the fact we are parents to the students (ie we feed them, dress them clean them, etc, etc. etc. ) all before learning and teaching take place.

Parents, Not all, are a big problem for the sake of their own kids!

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79streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

Just like usual, you avoided the "tough" question - this time posed by charms in post 76. You've got no source, do you? Typical anti-SB5 rhetoric!

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80SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Streetsmart,
Where are you facts that SB5 will save you money? It will not, your taxes will not go down. You listen to the rhetoric of the Republicans that have been in power in ohio for more than 20 years that have created this mess. Blame Strictland-ites don't see the mess that Taft left for him.
Fact on scholarships. Their was an inner city school student that somewhere around earned 2 million in scholarships to attend Uconn to play basketball. He earned that plus academic scholarships as well. Thus, he was paid to go to college legally.
Once again, everyone is missing the big picture. You want to blame unions for college tution increases. Its the State and federal governments that caused it!!!!!!!!!!
The solution is simple and it will come to late. RAISE TAXES AND CUT SPENDING. The last is done but not increasing the level of which one spends currently!

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81streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

You teachers never give up, do you? "RAISE TAXES AND CUT SPENDING."

Everybody in the teaching field wants to raise taxes! GLAD YOU FINALLY ADMITTED IT!

Sure, "Take from the poor and give to the rich" public sector employees - who already enjoy the greatest perks and bennies in the country!

Your name should be "killourcountry" instead of saveourcountry!

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82SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

the truth hurt streets doesn't it. My statement was in general for the national and state level. SB5 creates the "perfect storm" for locals to be forced to raise taxes on all of us!

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83SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

the truth hurt streets doesn't it. My statement was in general for the national and state level. SB5 creates the "perfect storm" for locals to be forced to raise taxes on all of us!

nice, by the way....Typical KASICK move to lower yourself to name calling....very"smart". Another winner for the worker in the arguement....THANKS

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84streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Shame on you teachers for putting pillaging the public coffers ahead of serving the children.

Shame on you for letting your union run roughshod over helpless boards of education.

Shame on you for letting our students fall behind the other industrialized countries.

Shame on you for being so full of rancor and bereft of gratitude.

Shame on you for pitting yourselves against the taxpayers' best interests.

Shame, shame, shame.

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85karin281(10 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

@ Streetsmart who said: "Public schools don't need "Waiting for Superman" to discredit them. Their ineptness has been shown by every study pitting our kids against kids from other countries. When will people finally learn that it is the teacher's union that stymies every attempt at real improvement?"

School is school, regardless of unions or not. Success is a combination of the teacher's input and guidance, student effort, and parental concern and guidance. You cannot blame all the wrongs you feel you see on unions alone.

In China and most Asian countries (especially Japan) you study. You excel because there is *extreme* family pressure to succeed and become a highly educated person. How you raise your status in society is very much based on your level of education. Kids compete to get into the top elementary schools, let alone the top high schools or colleges. Teachers are respected in their culture. Students in turn are respectful and go to work in the classroom without as much classroom management because to distract the teacher is a waste of time for all. Many students then go after school to "cram schools" which their families pay for on an additional basis. Students that don't make the cuts are guided into other jobs and professions. We test every child in the USA regardless of ability. In Europe and Asia, the results we see are often only those of the top 20 percent. Quite frankly, you simply cannot compare the results.

DId I see "Waiting for Superman"? Yes. Did I think it was extremely biased to show one viewpoint? Yes. And I am a teacher, yes. But as an extremely liberal person, if I thought the film was good and sound, I would say so. However it shows one viewpoint, was filmed strategically to show one viewpoint, and from someone who has been in the educational arena for more than fifteen years, it is a propagranda piece.

Simply my opinion from someone who actually teaches and isn't making assumptions from the outside looking in.

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86SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

CHA CHING!!!!! Great post Karin281
CHA CHING!!!!!

SHAME ON THOSE THAT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS!
Because you only and a "donkey" out of "U" and KASICK

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87streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

karin281,

Most people who voted NO in Canfield and Poland didn't see this movie before voting.

I am not making assumptions, I am telling you that people are justifiably teed off that teachers have gouged the taxpayers at a time of recession.

Simply put - "You rip me off, I get mad!"

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88paulparks(235 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

karin281,

You're making me cry in my beer... Who cares if the movie was biased? Whatever teacher unions do "propaganda wise" is biased too.

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89charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Go paulparks!

You're absolutely right!

BUDDA BING, BUDDA BOOM...

CHA CHING, CHA CHING, CHA CHING!

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90SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

All those negative crabs out there....shame shame shame on you. We all know what crabs do in a boiling pot of water. Paulperks, Charms,streetsmart, and the rest of the vocal minority are those other crabs.

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91streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

Yes, it appears that I am your nemesis on this blog. You call me negative. The reason you think that is because I am so positive. I believe in a great America, an America where everyone gets a great education!

It's not happening, SOC. As a teacher, are you part of the problem or the solution? I don't know.

All I know is that your fears of SB5 indicate you are very cynical or unsure of being able to demonstrate your own true worth.

I would think every teacher would love the opportunity SB5 brings.

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92SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Streetsmarts,
You can't handle the fact that someone else made a better decision than you to give back to the community that gave to me. Just because i compare you to a crab in a boiling pot makes my point even stronger when you responded. You don't know what a crab does, do you?
I have seen good teachers fired that were under limited contracts because a principal didn't like them. SB5 makes this worse! I will not be effected by SB5 because those of us with tenure are safe, we can't lose our jobs. Wages will be cut, but we will still have a job. I worry about the future teachers that will not enter the profession which is already happening.
So, you continue doing your crab thing because you unhappy with your life. YOUR DOING A WONDERFUL CRAB JOB......PULLING THOSE OF US TRYING TO CLIMB OUT OF THE POT BACK IN...
WHILE I CONTINUE ENLIGHTENING AMERICA'S BEST ASSET , OUR CHILDREN.

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93SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

Streetsmarts,
You can't handle the fact that someone else made a better decision than you to give back to the community that gave to me. Just because i compare you to a crab in a boiling pot makes my point even stronger when you responded. You don't know what a crab does, do you?
I have seen good teachers fired that were under limited contracts because a principal didn't like them. SB5 makes this worse! I will not be effected by SB5 because those of us with tenure are safe, we can't lose our jobs. Wages will be cut, but we will still have a job. I worry about the future teachers that will not enter the profession which is already happening.
So, you continue doing your crab thing because you unhappy with your life. YOUR DOING A WONDERFUL CRAB JOB......PULLING THOSE OF US TRYING TO CLIMB OUT OF THE POT BACK IN...
WHILE I CONTINUE ENLIGHTENING AMERICA'S BEST ASSET , OUR CHILDREN.

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94karin281(10 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

@Streetsmart

I was responding to your comment "Their ineptness has been shown by every study pitting our kids against kids from other countries."

You seem to deliberately miss any point I make when you disagree with it. I wasn't talking at all about people not supporting the levies because they had seen a movie. I never even considered that people in our communities would ever base a vote simply on that.

My point is that comparing American public school students with students in Europe and Asia is done using an "uneven" sample.

It's interesting that when I explain something you disagree with, you come back with a retort that totally misses the point I was making or launches another tirade on a different or slightly related subject.

I have, however, realized from this that if I keep posting here, I'll be constantly responding to things, and well, I have other things I can more positively spend the time on.

Thanks for the discussion.

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95Tigerlily(472 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

This documentary was Republican propaganda for charter schools, plain and simple.

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96streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

Let's elevate this discussion above crabs, please.

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97SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

you don't get , do you? LOL LOL LOl LOL LOL

maybe Charms can 'splain it to ya

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98charms(228 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC

All I can say to streesmartt is that you (SOC) are an extremely negative person. Very insulting... And not a gentleman...

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99SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

CHARMS, I state facts. I called no one a 'jackass' as Streesmarts did on a blog here referring to me. I've called no one names. The crab story is called an analogy.

You attacked teachers all the time condemning POland and Canfield teachers. Both systems have GREAT teachers! I can sleep at night knowing SB5 at most will only effect my wages negatively. As long as I show up and do my job, with tenure, I am protected. I fight the fight for those younger than me and yet to enter the greatest profession

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100streetsmartt(127 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

SOC,

Please quote me accurately. I referred to how you make the whole teaching profession look when you ACT like a jackass.

I did not call you a jackass.

I support your right to "fight for those younger" than you in the teaching profession.

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101SAVEOURCOUNTRY(464 comments)posted 2 years, 10 months ago

no streetsmartt,
You States "Your a JAckass".... every "smart" comment!

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