facebooktwitterRSS
- Advertisement -
  • Most Commentedmost commented up
  • Most Emailedmost emailed up
  • Popularmost popular up
- Advertisement -
 

« News Home

Strickland fires back at Kasich



Published: Sun, January 30, 2011 @ 12:00 a.m.

By Bertram de Souza (Contact)


“I don’t believe he was telling the truth.”

With that searing statement, former Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland broke his silence to challenge the claim of his successor, John Kasich, that top executives of General Motors, Ford and Chrysler told him they weren’t happy with the treatment they received from the previous administration.

“I question his honesty in the way he’s presenting this,” said Strickland, a Democrat who lost his bid for a second four-year term last November. “I just think it’s so inconsistent with my experience, my personal relationship I had with these individuals.”

And, the supposed critical comments from the auto execs are inconsistent with the major investments the companies have made in this state, the former governor told this writer in a telephone conversation Thursday from Columbus. He pointed to GM’s Lordstown assembly plant as proof of Ohio’s success in competing with other states for new products.

The Cruze

The Lordstown plant was chosen over several around the country to manufacture the Chevrolet Cruze, GM’s latest offering in the highly competitive compact car market. The company spent more than $350 million upgrading the plant. The Cruze replaced the highly successful Chevrolet Cobalt and the Pontiac G5. The company had invested $1 billion at the complex preparing for the launch of those models.

Nonetheless, Republican Gov. Kasich has dwelled on the report he first gave Jan. 13 of his meeting in Detroit with officials of the three companies that he said was “very sobering and, in some ways, very disturbing.”

According to the Columbus Dispatch, Kasich, who took office on Jan. 10 after his narrow gubernatorial election victory, declined to elaborate on his comments. But, he left the impression that at least some executives are not happy with how they have been treated in Ohio, the Dispatch reported.

“I heard words like noncompetitive,” Kasich said. “I heard words like non-cooperative. I heard words like created a bad attitude and a bad impression. We are not viewed in that community as the most forward-looking state.”

Spokesmen for Chrysler and General Motors declined to discuss specifics about what they said were private business meetings, but both characterized the sessions as “positive.”

Pete Lawson, vice president for Ford’s federal and state governmental relations, issued a statement saying, “The fact that Governor Kasich came to talk with us just three days after being sworn in sends a strong message about how much he values American manufacturing. We appreciate the governor’s strong focus on making Ohio a more competitive place to do business.”

But Strickland noted that he and his lieutenant governor, Lee Fisher, who also served as development director, visited Detroit every quarter and met with the chief executive officers of GM, Chrysler and Ford.

He also contended that the relationship between his administration and the auto executives was solidified when he publicly warned the Ohio General Assembly he would veto any bill that sought to force the auto makers to keep franchise dealerships open. This was in the midst of the reorganization of the industry in which GM and Chrysler took billions of dollars from the federal government to keep from going under. Ford did not accept any federal bailout money.

“I don’t believe Lordstown would exist had it not been for government assistance,” Strickland said, pointing out that Kasich during the campaign had opposed the federal bailout of the American auto industry.

As for his relationships with the executives, the former governor noted that he was invited by GM’s top brass to drive the first Cruze off the assembly line. “They didn’t have to do that. They took the initiative to do that.”

Governor’s visit

Strickland said that when he first heard Kasich’s comment, he “just kind of dismissed it,” but he decided to speak out now because the governor came to the Valley last week, toured the Lordstown plant and repeated what he claims he was told in Detroit.

It is important to remember that Kasich has refused to reveal who in Detroit made the derogatory comments about the previous administration and Ohio’s business climate.

The governor’s intransigence in naming names so reporters can find out for themselves what was said and meant is troubling. Fairness demands full disclosure.


Comments

11970mach1(1005 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

“I heard words like noncompetitive,” Kasich said. “I heard words like non-cooperative. I heard words like created a bad attitude and a bad impression. "

And you doubt this?

Perhaps they meant the wildcard strike after Al Alli got fired for getting clocked in while he was out of the state. Or the stolen merchandise ring run in the parking lot. Or the drug ring. Or maybe it was the plan to close the plant for the Ohio State -Michigan football game. Or all the other crap.

Or maybe they felt that was all ok and they meant something else.

Suggest removal:

2Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

"The governor’s intransigence in naming names so reporters can find out for themselves what was said and meant is troubling. Fairness demands full disclosure."

A good reporter would find this out on his own.

Suggest removal:

3AE(3 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

"I heard words like ....." Wake up folks, when people use "lawyer speak" they open the door for their interpretattion. This allows for not telling the truth ( lying ). He heard words "like" means he didn't hear those words, he heard something else. He then puts in his ideas and says he heard words like" that. Classic lying technique.

Suggest removal:

4block50(127 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Our new governor is using his training at Fox News well. Innuendo and deceptive, incomplete accusations passed off as fact. And the sheep continue to follow, bilnd and obedient.

Suggest removal:

5redvert(2058 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

You are right, since Lordstown was already setup for small car production, which plant would they keep open? Six plants in the state closed, might be a message there!

Yes, I know that other states have lost plants also but let us not try to talk around the issue in Ohio.

Suggest removal:

6DJ0(72 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

.... do I detect the slightest taste of sour grapes? Ehhhh... its a possibility! Nobody has a lock on auto production. It's highly competetive and unions aren't the manufacturer's friend. Figure it out.

Suggest removal:

7candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

...the good news is GM Lordstown isn't building airplanes...

...China is building superior aircrafts at far lower costs...while the United States offers the highest corporate tax rate in the world...look for Boeing to collapse like GM...

Suggest removal:

8Jerry(495 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

It is unfortunate that Ted Strickland's conduct can not be as professional as George W. Bush's has been since leaving office.

Suggest removal:

9RustOnMyBelt(114 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Kasich is aginst collective bargaining ( a union buster). He would NEVER admit that Lordstown's success had ANYTHING at all to do with a cooperative effort between the worker's union and GM. It goes against all he stands for.This is a slam against all who work there and all who worked so hard to keep Lordstown alive.

Suggest removal:

10cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

candystriper.....great post. A perfect example of someone posting something that is completely not true.

Obama just completed a deal for China to buy 45 billion in American exports including a deal for China to buy 200 planes for 19 billion dollars. Oh. Boeing is building the planes.

http://www.moneynews.com/FinanceNews/...

Suggest removal:

11VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

The Gov is telling it like it is.

Believe me when I say this...
This IS the general opinion of most major corporations doing business in Ohio...those that are still here, anyway.

We may not like it. We may not like the corporate officials who control our lives and we may not like their methods, but we all have to like having them around if we want to improve our lives.

If we really want to begin improving our general health and welfare, we need to begin changing the perception held by corporations about the working environment in The Valley as well as in Ohio.

I would not want to be in The Gov's shoes right now, as he is in a very difficult position. Not only does he need to convince the corporate world that Ohio truely is "Open for Business", but he also needs to convince the corporate world that our workforce is open as well. And here is where he needs help. This is where we need to take off the boxing gloves and begin the process of healing the wounds.

Despite what we may think, America is still the largest manufacturing country in the world. Let's get those jobs and corporations back into Ohio where they belong. We have the people. We have the need. We have the desire. Do we have the will?

If you respond to these comments with negative remarks, then apparently we still do not have the will, so we will continue to languish.

Suggest removal:

12VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

One of the deals recently signed by China and endorsed by Obama is for GE in Erie, Pa. to build and send over a large number of diesel-electric locomotives for China's growing transportation industry. The problem with this deal is the engines will be sent over as parts and pieces allowing China to assemble them and study the reverse engineering of them, which will enable China to begin manufacturing their own engines in the future.

The sales deal looks good on paper today, but it shows us the dangerous path in the future when China begins selling their own locomotive engines at bargain prices to other countries and puts GE out of the locomotive manufacturing business. If you are going to do business with China today, you MUST have them sign non-compete clauses which include heavy penalties for breaking the rules. Because of their track record, this is the only way a Communist country such as China must be treated and this is the only method they understand.

Suggest removal:

13candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Airbus has a final assembly plant in China...workers make $50 per month...Boeing who is against unions will pay Carolina workers $50 in 4 hours.

The WTO ruled today the U.S. federal and local governments gave billions of dollars in illegal subsidies to airplane maker Boeing...the WTO will now command Boeing to end its illegal R&D cash support from NASA,DoD and the U.S. taxpayer. WSJ

Boeing couldn't even complete the USA-Mexico fence.

Suggest removal:

14anothermike(209 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

You can have china sign all the "clauses and agreements" you wish, but it won't stop them from doing what they want anyway....tell wal-mart they will have to start getting their merchandise elsewhere would be a good start. As far as the Fed giving subsidies to Boeing, if the chinese can do it, we should do the same....Fair trade, not Free trade is the ticket.

Suggest removal:

15cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

candystriper....You forgot to mention the 20 billion airbus got in illegal subsidies. I attached a link from the Associated Press for you because I know you wouldn't be trying to put a slant on things.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/a...

Also, Boeing doesn't build fence's they build airplanes and their building 200 of them for 19 billion dollars for China.

You stated in a previous post that China builds better airplanes than America. Having a final assembly plan for someone else's parts and design doesn't make you an aircraft manufacturer.

If China is designing and manufacturing a better plane than the one's they buy from us maybe you can provide the name of this Chinese manufacturer and some background to backup your claim.

Suggest removal:

16JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

"....I know you wouldn't be trying to put a slant on things."

Cambridge, that's a pretty familiar tactic isn't it.

Suggest removal:

17cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME.....I provide facts from reputable news agencies. The only slant I put on things is towards the truth.

I notice in your posts that what's usually missing is something reliable to back up what you are posting. That would be someone trying to slant things.

What should i do when people like you or others on this board post something that is not true and I find proof it's not true in five minutes on Google. I;m sure you want me to just ignore the facts but I don't think I'll be doing that.

If you don't want me to call BS then don't post BS.

Suggest removal:

18candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

google...U.S. Cans Boeing Virtual Mexico Fence Project...Jan.11,2011...

next...Call the FAA and ask them if they will certify Boeings new plane...not likely.

google where is COMAC new office in the USA?

Suggest removal:

19JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Cambridge, I actually agree with you here. I'm referring to another article where you tried to slant high interest rates and inflation in the 1980's as if Reagan caused that. You mentioned that they peeked under Reagan, but failed to inform readers that Carter's policy's were the cause.

Back on topic, I find it rather ironic that you are one who always complains about imports from China, but it's ok to export to China. Can't have one without the other.

Suggest removal:

20cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

candystriper....will all the Googling you want me to do lead me to that Chinese aircraft manufacturer you claimed builds better airplanes than Americans?

JME....I have no problem with imports, I just want it to be a fair playing field. It's gets a little old to keep reading comments that bad mouth American companies and reap praise on foreign companies.

In many cases the reason for being against American companies is because the employ union workers. Many people that post here forget that the foreign auto makers in this country employ union workers in their country and have been government subsidized for decades. That's called putting a slant on things.

If America put an import tax on other countries goods so that know matter what countries came from they would all cost the same i have no doubt that American manufacturers would lead in sales.

Also a lot of people like to point out the wage disparity between Chinese workers compared to American. I doubt that any of those people ever go to their boss and volunteer to cut their wages and benefits to match their Chinese counter part but their real good at volunteering their neighbor to so.

As far as reagan, I posted a few links that backed up everything I said. reagan was an economic disaster compared to Clinton. I asked you then and I'll ask you again, would you rather go back to the time of reagan, his economy of tripling the debt and the path he was on or Clinton and his economy with a budget surplus which is the formula for paying off the debt?

Suggest removal:

21JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

@Cambridge, this is one of your post:

"Honda also doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but they do for their Japanese workers."

Where is your "reputable news source"?
It seems you are full of BS

Suggest removal:

22cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....There are 40,084 union auto workers working for Honda in Japan. You can read about it in the link below. So tell me what part of my quote in your last post is BS.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi...

Suggest removal:

23JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

The Clinton/Reagan argument was over the number of jobs created, which you provided.You were inferring that Reagan caused high interest rates and inflation (a slant). That was Carters' mess.
Regarding Honda, you are saying that Ohio's Honda employees pay don't match up with Honda employees pay in Japan. Is that correct? What is your source for the pay rates? Or was that BS. It wasn't relevant to my argument anyway that Honda has a major positive economic impact on Ohio, providing good paying jobs without the need of a Union.
Back to this topic. Taxing Imports from China is a fine line to walk, don't you think the Chinese will retaliate? Considering China is the worlds largest automotive market right now, with GM benefitting, I don't think that is as simple as it sounds.
The real issue involves a de-valued Yuan

Suggest removal:

24cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME.....I never said that "Ohio's Honda employees pay don't match up with Honda employees in Japan." I also never made a statement as to what any one's pay rate is.

You implying that I did make those statements is what would qualify as spin at the least and BS at most.

Suggest removal:

25JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Re-read your post

Suggest removal:

26cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....my statement was that Japanese auto workers are union and are paid a living wage and benefits while the American worker does without. The fact that a company will bargain with one set of employees and not another puts the second set of employees at a disadvantage.

I don't care if you or anyone else is anti union. It's a free country. But when people are praising a company like Honda for being nonunion in this country they should mention the fact that they are union in other countries.

If you think it's OK for a company that bargains with organized labor in their own and other countries and refuse barging in America, fine.

In my mind that puts the American worker at a disadvantage. If you want to call the way i see it spin or BS be my guest.

Suggest removal:

27JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

"The fact that a company will bargain with one set of employees and not another puts the second set of employees at a disadvantage"

And GM does not do this?

The whole point I am making is that people around here contend that Honda and Toyota are imported, when in fact the majority of Hondas'/Toyotas' you see driving on U.S. roads are built in the U.S. by American workers. Honda plants in Ohio also buy their steel from AK Steel based out of Dayton (always have) - guess what, the workers are probably representated by USW union. And my argument for this point is not whether it is union vs. non-union, it's that Honda has a big positive impact on the State of Ohio. It's the UAW that has a problem with that. If the UAW could organize Honda, you wouldn't hear any negative comments about Honda.
The letter writer's point was to not buy imported goods. I'll give you the Wal-Mart items, but Honda/Toyota is just as made in America as a GM - just go to a dealer and check the MSRP sticker for the % of vehicle that is U.S. made. If fact, doesn't GM import vehicles made exclusively in Canada and nowhere in the U.S.?

Yes, you did say that Honda's Japan workers make more than Honda's American workers, without a reference.

Cambridge, my point is that you spout off opinions just as others on here, not just the facts.

Suggest removal:

28cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....Open up the thread where you claim I said "Honda's Japan workers make more than Honda's American workers" post the link on this thread and tell me the number of the post where i made that statement.

As far as foreign companies employing American workers in the US, I'm all for it. I welcome any company that will invest in America. My problem is with people that praise these companies for not negotiating with American workers while the same companies negotiate with unions in other countries and in their own country.

Suggest removal:

29JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Cambridge,

I copied it above, post #22

The original thread:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/jan/23...

post #16

The unions have tried to organize at Honda in Ohio on more than one occasion, and the workers have voted no each time. The workers there have spoken. For some reason, the UAW cannot live with those results and would rather attack the consumer for buying a Honda - that's what I have a problem with. Consumers have the choice, it's up to GM and all of its employees to put a product out that the consumer wants. It's still Americans building a car, whether it be a Chevy Cruze or Honda Accord.

For the record, I am not anti-GM. Over the last 20 years I have bought/leased new: 9 GM, 2 Honda, 1 Toyota. Still own 1 GM and 1 Toyota. All were built in the U.S.

Suggest removal:

30candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

GM needs to worry about Lincoln...IMHO is for Cambridge...lol

Suggest removal:

31cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME.....In post #28 on this thread you claim that I said "Honda's Japan workers make more than Honda's American workers."

In post #29 on this thread I posted that I never said that and for you to post the link that says I did.

You refer to a link in post #30 on this thread that I posted that statement in post #16 on the thread you provided. My exact quote word for word in post #16 on that thread is: "Honda also doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but they do for their Japanese workers."

Nowhere did i say that "Honda's Japan workers make more than Honda's American workers."

So basically you just made up something and claim I said it. I am actually laughing while I type this. How do you claim someone wrote something and then offer proof that is not what you claimed in post #28 on this thread?

Suggest removal:

32unhappyvoter1(87 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

who cares its to late

Suggest removal:

33northsideperson(365 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Not directly related, but are there any American makes of cars that will last six years and 150K miles?

Suggest removal:

34JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

@Cambridge,

"Honda also doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but they do for their Japanese workers."

You are inferring that the Honda's Japnese workers are making more than Honda's American workers. Aren't you inferring that the union wages are higher than the non-union wages??

Any idiot can see this. You most definitely are a Democrat.

Suggest removal:

35cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....Only an idiot would take a person's statement reword it and claim the rewording is what the person said.

I think I've seen that done on the Fix Noise Network. Typical teabagger/republican.

Suggest removal:

36JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

You just can't admit that you post "slants" and "opinions without facts" just like the others on here.

Teabagger's aren't Republicans.

The Dems and Unions have done a fantastic number on The Valley the last 30 yrs. Keep up the great work!

Suggest removal:

37JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Honda also doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but they do for their Japanese workers."

That is word for word your statement moron Cambridge. You made the statement, now you deny it? - Sounds like a Dem, your arguing with yourself...lol
You cannot even interpret your own writings - you are saying the wages and benefits are different, Idiot!

Where is the source of this info?

Suggest removal:

38Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

cambridge You forgot that the workers in Japan have their health care and pensions paid by the Government and not the companies . Big advantage

Suggest removal:

39JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/jan/23...

Post #16

Your words as you posted them moron Cambridge!

I accept your apology for trying to deny that you said that.

Suggest removal:

40cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME...In post #32 on this thread I posted that I made a statement "Honda also doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but they do for their Japanese workers."

In post #39 on this thread you now claim that I have denied making that statement. I have never denied making that statement. I think you might be a little delusional.

I don't need you or anyone else to interpret what i say. I'm sure you want what you post to speak for it self without someone else saying, well you wrote this so you meant that or if you think that then you must think this. You need to stick to explaining what you wrote meant and let other peoples words speak for themselves without your interpretation.

Suggest removal:

41JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

It's like arguing with a wall. You are clearly saying the wages and benefits are different. What are they?

If you don't know, then you posted an "opinion" without fact

Suggest removal:

42cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....Again you are making an interpretation of what I said. You accuse me of denying something I never denied saying and you claim i said things I never said.

You just don't get it. When someone writes something it speaks for itself. I don't need you or anyone else changing my wording and claiming i said it.

You're not the first person on this board that likes to change something someone said and claim they said something else.

I did not post an opinion without fact. It is a fact that Honda pays it's Japanese workers union wages and benefits and it is a fact that in America they do not. In Japan they bargain with their employees in America the do not. In Japan Honda and union labor set rules and conditions that both parties must follow and in America they do not.

So there you are, now you have a bunch more statements I just made that you can change the words or make up something and claim they are mine.

Suggest removal:

43JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Where are the facts? You state there is a difference, fine and dandy. What is it?

Your words:

"Honda also doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but they do for their Japanese workers."

Suggest removal:

44JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

"You're not the first person on this board that likes to change something someone said and claim they said something else."

This gave me a good laugh. Your statements are always opposite to what the majority on these boards say. Sometimes I wonder if you just want to argue with people no matter what the topic is.

Suggest removal:

45cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME...I don't know what the difference is do you? I do know that Honda doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but they do for their Japanese workers.

If you claim that statement isn't accurate then post the proof.

Better yet, I have two simple questions for you but i doubt you'll answer them.

1. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits if Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in America?

Suggest removal:

46JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Oh, now you want to spin this whole thing around, since you can't deny you made a claim without any facts.

You made the claim that there is a difference, and that is why I asked you what is it.

What is the union wage and benefit amount?

Another statement you said:

"In Japan Honda and union labor set rules and conditions ..."

I have to ask, is that out of the UAW handbook? That does not fit Japanese culture one bit. The chain of command is followed, not challenged.

Now, when it comes to quality systems, management and labor does work together.

Just admit you made a statement without facts and we can move on.

Suggest removal:

47cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME

1. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in America?

Suggest removal:

48JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

I love how you pick and choose what you want to read.

I asked you first what the difference was., since you stated that there was a difference.

What is it?

Your trying to spin this on me because of your lack of intelligence.

Suggest removal:

49JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Ok, what is the union wages and benefits?

Suggest removal:

50JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

"Honda also doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but they do for their Japanese workers."

What is the difference?

Suggest removal:

51cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME...I don't know what the difference is do you?

1. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in America?

Suggest removal:

52JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Don't make that statement then.

What are the union wages and benefits?

Suggest removal:

53cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....What part of my statement is untrue?

!. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in America?

Why don't you answer those two simple questions? What are you afraid of?

Suggest removal:

54JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Is this correct, the average GM hourly compensation in 2006 was $73.26/hour?

No wonder the UAW caused GM to go bankrupt.

http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/view.a...

Suggest removal:

55borylie(790 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME,That's what I think,Cambridge just likes to argue. This is why I rarely debate the topic when Cambridge is involved. It's very frustrating for me,like spinning your tires. Good luck.

Suggest removal:

56cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME...Come on man up and answer the questions.

1. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in America?

Suggest removal:

57JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Your untrue statement: wages and benefits are different. You couldn't provide the data to suggest otherwise. No wonder you didn't want to mention union wages and benefits, $73/hour

Working on your answer.

How embarrassing the UAW must be for ruinning the big three. $73/hour

Suggest removal:

58JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

borylie, your right about that.
Cambridge continues to deny saying things, spins things around, changes the subject,....etc.

Suggest removal:

59cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....I'm not embarrassed about anything. You should be embarrassed for not having the balls to answer two simple questions.

1.Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in Japan?

2.Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in America?

Suggest removal:

60JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Based on $73/hour as the (GM) Union Wages and Benefits for 2006, it's more than likely safe to say no one in their right mind would pay that wage, particularly Honda in Japan or the U.S. Otherwise, they would be out of business, or need the Government to bail them out.

There ya go.

Thank you for admitting that you posted an "opinion" and not a fact:

"JME...I don't know what the difference"

http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/view.a...

Suggest removal:

61JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

See Cambridge, I can play the same "spin the facts around" or "slants" game you play.

Suggest removal:

62cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME.....I posted a fact when I said Honda pays union wages and benefits in Japan and they don't pay union wages and benefits in America.

How about answering two simple questions with a yes or a no.

1.Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in America?

Suggest removal:

63candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

China just made a huge investment in the Niobrara Shale Project...stretches over Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas and Nebraska...Chesapeake Energy Corp.

Suggest removal:

64JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

You got your answer, no one can match $73/hour and survive - not even GM.

I thought this was interesting:

"We also found out today that Honda built more vehicles in the United States than in its home country of Japan through the second quarter, according to the Detroit News.

Honda has more than 10 factories in the U.S., with two new plants under construction, and 14 R&D facilities. Honda employees more than 27,000 people in the U.S.; Toyota has 28,700 American employees. Honda was also the first Japanese automaker to build cars in the U.S., starting with the Accord back in 1982.

So again, we ask: Can a foreign automaker that builds here count as domestic over a Detroit Three automaker that builds beyond our borders yet advertises its vehicles as American?"

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/20...

Suggest removal:

65JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

" I posted a fact when I said Honda pays union wages and benefits in Japan and they don't pay union wages and benefits in America"

Where are the numbers?

Suggest removal:

66JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Just answer a simple question,

Where are the numbers?

Suggest removal:

67JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Where are the numbers?

Suggest removal:

68cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....I don't need numbers. It is a fact that Honda negotiates with the Japanese auto workers union and pays union wages and benefits in Japan.

It's also a fact that Honda does not negotiate with the American auto workers union and does not pay union wages or benefits.

That is not an opinion it is a fact and you just admitted as much yourself.

So now that you admitted that Honda pays union wages and benefits in Japan but they don't in America I guess that I can interpret that you are saying that "Honda's Japan workers make more than Honda's American workers."

How do you like someone posting an interpretation of what you said?

Suggest removal:

69JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Cambridge, You said it was a fact, I said provide the numbers to the fact. You can't.
Now who is juggling words.

I didn't say Honda pays union wages and benefits in Japan. Show me where that is?

Once again, you just want to twist things around, change the subject,... etc.

I was reading around and started think why you even switched the topic to Honda's Japan workers pay rate.

According to the link that was previously posted, Toyota and Honda was paying it's people around $24/hour in 2006, essentially the same as the big three - the difference being primarily the legacy costs
Now, for whatever reason, you believe this is an unfair pay rate? Yea, there's a bunch of jobs around The Valley that pay $24/hour - at that was in 2006.

Suggest removal:

70JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

"So now that you admitted that Honda pays union wages and benefits in Japan but they don't in America"

Cambridge, show me where that was said. Otherwise, stop trying to twist everything around.

You are full of BS and are quick to change to topic when you cannot answer something

Suggest removal:

71JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/...

And this guy is a Liberal

Suggest removal:

72cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....I thought your post #62 answered those questions. My bad.

So I'll ask you again.

1.Does Honda pay union wages and benefits to autoworkers in Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits to autoworkers in America?

3. How do you figure that it takes a set of numbers to back up those statements? It's a known fact that the Honda workers in Japan are union and the one's in America are not. What kind of numbers do you need to acknowledge that? It is what it is.

Suggest removal:

73JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Alright, we can try to make this a more civilized argument/disagreement.

Are you assuming that if Honda's Japan workers are unionized, that their wages and benefits woud higher than non-union Honda workers in the U.S.?
If so, what I'm asking, what is the difference and where are the numbers that show this?

Suggest removal:

74walter_sobchak(1893 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

cambridge
If the workers in the Honda plants in America are not unionized, the problem is with the workers and not Honda. The workers should organize if they feel they are being mistreated or underpaid. But, if the workers at Honda America are satisfied with their pay, benefits and working conditions, what's the big stink? Personally, I would never pay anyone for the right to work in a facility. Hopefully, Ohio can stop this madness and become a right-to-work state. Maybe we can become competitive again.

Suggest removal:

75JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

To answer your question, what union wages and benefits number do you want to use as a reference? GM's bankruptcy causing rate of $73/hour?

Suggest removal:

76JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Walter, you brought up a point I made quite a few posts ago. Honda's Ohio workers have voted no to unionization on more than one occasion.
They do not need or want it. Honda provides great jobs and the UAW has sour grapes over it.

Suggest removal:

77candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

I work for the government. April is coming up and I will need to put in my sick/overtime/vacation schedule with my supervisor. I will need July 17, 19 and 21 off (sick of course). I would like to work overtime on July 1, 4, 5. I will take my 30 days paid vacation August 1- 26. I will need off August 29, 30, 31, September 1 and 2. (sick of course).

Thank You

Lol

Suggest removal:

78JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Candy, are you going to carry the rest of the days over into 2012...lol

Suggest removal:

79cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....I have never said that Honda's Japanese auto workers make more than American auto workers. YOU claim i made that statement not me. All I said was that "Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers."

That statement is a fact not an opinion.

As far as who is union and who isn't, that isn't my business. I wish success and prosperity on all Americans, union or not.

So I'll ask you again:

1. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits in America?

Suggest removal:

80JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

"Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers."

Ok Cambridge, what are you trying to say regarding your statement above?

That the wages are different? Lower? Higher?
Or is this just an opinion? Or can't you remember?

Thank you for proving my point about your use of "slants"

To answer your question, what union wages and benefits number do you want to use as a reference? GM's bankruptcy causing rate of $73/hour?

Suggest removal:

81JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

btw, I didn't say you claimed that the Janpanese Union workers would have a higher wage. I asked you if you were assuming that. Yes or No answer.

Geez, you can't even read.

Suggest removal:

82cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

JME....When I made the statement that "Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers" I meant that Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers.

It seems you like to ask questions but you have a real hard time answering any. Let's try again.

1. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits to autoworkers in Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits to autoworkers in America?

Suggest removal:

83JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

So, compared to Honda's Japan workers "union wages and benefits", the Honda U.S. workers wages and benefits are:

a. equal
b. higher
c. lower
d. you have no idea

I cannot answer your question until you can answer this question:

What union wages and benefits number do you want to use as a reference? GM's bankruptcy causing rate of $73/hour?

You are asking if Honda pays "union wages and benefits". What is that number, then I can say yes or no.

Or do you want to try and spin things in another direction?

Suggest removal:

84JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I can just imagine you as having a big concrete block on your shoulders as your head.

Suggest removal:

85cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

JME...d. I have no idea.

Again I've answered another one of your questions how about you answering two of mine.

1. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits autoworkers in Japan?

2.Does Honda pay union wages and benefits to autoworkers in America?

Suggest removal:

86JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Again, you need to say what the number is for "union wages and benefits"

Then I say yes or no.

Get it.

Thank goodness the Unions are dieing, there's not much intelligence to work with there.

Suggest removal:

87candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Listen...don't schedule any meetings before noon the day after Labor Day as I will have car trouble.

I requested flex-time so I start at 7:30 am. I'm 60 and get up early... the public won't make the first appointment so I don't have much to do until 9. It looks like I work 40 but it is 37...because of the weekly mandatory lunch meetings I will work Friday only until 1:00 pm.

Did you see me on Price As Right with my Furlough Friday t-shirt on? I won a car.

I cashed in my carry over in 2009...made some bad investments so I got myself rehired in 2010.

Suggest removal:

88JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

If you have no idea, then this statement has absolutely no meaning:

"Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers"

For all you know, the wages could be equal, one higher, or the other higher.

But you don't know, yet you made that post.

Hmmm, you got your self an opinion Cambridge.

Suggest removal:

89cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

JME,,,,I really don't care what anyone makes, if you do look it up.

1. Are Honda's Japanese autoworkers union or not?

2. Are Honda's American autoworkers union or not?

Come on grow a pair. You don't need to see a copy of the wage packages to answer those questions. Why are you afraid to answer those questions?

Suggest removal:

90JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"Come on grow a pair. ... Why are you afraid to answer those questions? "

Cambridge, you ok? Is the frustration of losing an argument starting to get to your thinking?

"Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers"

Where did you even get this statement if you don't know what it means, from the Union handbook under the chapter "How to bankrupt a company or the government"

What's your source? Come on, grow a couple, what are you afraid of?

You posted something without your precious "reputable news source" and you don't even know what it means.

What is the "union wages and benefits" rate, then I can tell you your two answers.

If you don't care, why do you keep posting.
You've failed to answer any questions except for "I don't know"

Suggest removal:

91JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"Another way to say it is that interest rates peaked at 22% and inflation peaked at 13.5% under reagan"

A "Slant"?

Suggest removal:

92JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers"

Cambridge, are you changing the argument again, away from wages?

Come on, grow a pair. You made a statement without data, aka an opinion

Suggest removal:

93candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

What day will they decertify the union based on the 2 tier wage scale?

OT. Just had a strange phone call..Chicago area code...guy said his name was Rahm...upset with my earlier post. lol

Suggest removal:

94cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

JME....The link below is proof that Honda workers in Japan are union. Since they are union they receive union wages and benefits.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi...

The link below is proof that Honda workers in America are non union. Since they are non union they do not receive union wages or benefits.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/26/bus...

Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do their Japanese workers.

So there is proof of what i said. I'm sure it will not be enough for you to answer two little questions

1. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits to autoworkers in Japan?

2. Does Honda pay union wages and benefits to autoworkers in America?

Suggest removal:

95JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers"

What proof. Unions in Japan, non-Union in the U.S. - already told you that.
Your statement does not say "union vs. non-union". You are saying the union wages and benefits are different than those of non-union workers. Correct?

What are those numbers, you specifically mention a wage difference between the two.

Every time you post, you try and change things around, without even answering the question. You stated that you know there's a difference, what is it?

You stated that Honda's Japan workers make union wages and benefits, but Honda's U.S. workers don't.

Another way to put it, you are saying they are different.

Where is your source for those different wages?

Come on, don't be afraid. Your assuming that the "union wages and benefits" are higher, without any data to support.

"Slant"

Suggest removal:

96JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Rocky,
Your missin the whole point. The Japs have set up shop in Ohio and are the largest manufacturing employer in the State.
But it's ok for GM to build vehicles in Canada, Mexico, etc., and sell them in the U.S.
The majority of Honda's/Toyota's you see on the road are built in the U.S. - that's a whole lot of good paying American jobs those Japs are providing.
Btw, I have owned GM's, Honda's, and Toyota's. While GM's quality has gotten better, they still have some work to do.

Suggest removal:

97cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

JME....I knew you wouldn't have the gears to answer two questions and you wouldn't have the gears to answer if I produced everyone's pay stubs and the contract. Pretty weak.

You can feel free to take any other statement I make and change the wording until it says what you want it to say. You're a clown and I'm done with this.

Suggest removal:

98JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers"

"I know you wouldn't be trying to put a slant on things"

Cambridge, you just make a statement to intentially mislead people, then try and turn it around!
Your such a hypocritical loser.

Suggest removal:

99JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Where's your gears, ball less?

Suggest removal:

100candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

IMHO they need to ban internet access in retirement homes...lol

in other news ... 187,000 snow shovelers have been added to the jobs number...by spring the Easter Bunny will hire 250,000 temps...who are they kidding!

Suggest removal:

101JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"Most reliable cars
GM makes big strides but has a long way to go
Last reviewed: October 2010"

"While Honda and Toyota still dominate in reliability, General Motors has improved considerably in our latest predicted-reliability Ratings. Those are the findings of our 2010 Annual Auto Survey, based on subscribers' experiences with 1.3 million vehicles."

"Asia still dominates
Despite recent safety recalls, Toyota models, including those from Scion and Lexus, remained among the most reliable and earned top scores in five vehicle categories."

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/ca...

Suggest removal:

102candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

www.dailyjobcuts.com

...Super Kmart downsized

Suggest removal:

103JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Yo Rock, you are incorrect again.

Honda built East Liberty, Ohio plant entirely off profits from their Marysville, Ohio plant. And, just recently built and opened a $9 billion plant in Greensburg, Indiana.
If you would ever take a trip outside of the Mahoning Valley, you would see that they put back into the communities, just as most large companies do.
Does GM put money into plants in Canda, Mexico, China, etc.? Aren't those foreign countries?

Sorry to disappoint you, you don't know what your talking about. Please do a little research first before posting.

•Honda employment in Ohio grew from approximately 60 employees in 1979 to 16,000 employees in 2004
Honda invested $6.1 billion in its Ohio facilities from 1979 to 2004
Honda purchases $7 billion in parts and materials from Ohio suppliers annually
There are 154 Honda suppliers in Ohio
There are Honda suppliers in 52 of 88 Ohio Counties

•Honda suppliers employ nearly 41,000 Ohioans.

http://development.ohio.gov/newsroom/...

"Honda has become Ohio's number one vehicle producer, while the company has invested more than $6.1 billion in its Ohio facilities, and payroll taxes to local communities have exceeded $1 billion. The economic impact study summarized that, in Ohio, Honda had:

•Full-time Ohio employment topping 16,000
•Supplier employment at 40,000
•Value of annual goods produced at $17.1 billion
•Capital investment $6.1 billion
•Return on state investment $67 to $1"

http://www.ohio.honda.com/community/o...

http://www.ohio.honda.com/companyinfo...

http://greensburgdailynews.com/honda/...

Suggest removal:

104JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Unlike me? Fortunately I was never from this hell hole, and even better, I'm not stuck in it.

The money goes back into the community. Numbers don't lie.

Suggest removal:

105JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Rocky your 0-3: quality, where the money goes, and where I've been/lived, Didn't say I don't live here.
You and others in the Valley are the reason why this area can't let go of living in the 1970's, and will never move on. Whether you like it or not, globalization is here to stay.
Let me give you another example. It's fair to say the Budweiser and Bud Light are two of the most popular beers in the U.S. They are owned by foreign based In-Bev, out of Belgium. Should Americans stop drinking Budweiser? According to your Honda analogy, they should. Just like Honda, they maintain a presence in the U.S., providing a significant economic boost.
If you actually new anything that happens outside of The Valley, you would realize that there is a large number of foreign-based companies investing in the U.S.:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/10/fore...

It's obvious by your lack of knowledge and your use of the term "Japs" that you don't have an education beyond a high school diploma. You should probably throw in the towel on this argument.

Suggest removal:

106JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"By the way----liars figure,and figures lie."

Btw, this sounds like an excuse from someone who can't find any proof to argue their point.

"Millions of jobs have moved offshore in the last decade, but millions more have been created or saved by foreign companies investing in the U.S. More than 5 million people--4% of the American private sector-workforce--are employed by companies headquartered overseas, primarily in Europe or Asia, according to data from the Department of Commerce. The Organization for International Investment calculates that roughly one-third of those jobs are in manufacturing, an area where the U.S. has supposedly lost its edge"

http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/10/fore...

Suggest removal:

107JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Oh Rocky, the truth hurts you, and I shouldn't blame you for your lack of knowledge since you have never experienced or been exposed to a successful economical region. You should stop reading the vindicator if you think the rest of the country is in the same condition of the valley.
I feel bad for you because folks such as yourself who cannot adapt will be left behind.
Why is central Ohio's unemployment rate much lower than the valleys if the numbers weren't factual? Please, your opinion doesn't provide much of an argument. You have no clue.

Suggest removal:

108AntiFascist(61 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"Six months after rising to power, Italian Fascists had dismantled working-class organizations, significantly reduced wages in certain areas, abolished taxes on inheritance and war profits, and emphasized the need for "national production."

Welcome to the world that is the new republicans party.

Suggest removal:

109electrician101(22 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers"

"I know you wouldn't be trying to put a slant on things"

Cambridge, you just make a statement to intentially mislead people, then try and turn it around!
Your such a hypocritical loser. ~belched JME
****************************************************************
The ONLY one putting spin on anything is you, JME.

Here is the truth; Cambridge is correct:

Japan’s auto workers get pay raises (a bit) and better bonuses

http://www.japaneconomynews.com/2007/...

Japanese auto union workers are some of the highest paid in the WORLD. The US/UAW worker ranks 7th in pay-rate as compared to Asian and European Union counterparts.

Direct labor equates to 8% of the total cost of a vehicle. The majority of profits from selling an auto return to the location of the Company that owns the product.

Honda workers money spent in Marysville has no direct impact on the economy of the Mahoning Valley. GM on the other hand boosts the local economy by about 2 billion yearly.

Suggest removal:

110JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Electrician,

You didn't follow or read all of the posts.
Cambridge's only point was that Honda Japan workers are union, Honda U.S. are not. His point was not about the actual pay rates, and admitted that he did not know the rates.
If you want to compare apples to apples, what is the pay rate difference along with the cost of living difference?

Saying Honda has no effect on the Valley is like saying buying a GM vehicle other than a Cruze has no effect on the Valley. If you buy a Camaro, where is that money going, to Canada. Did the the GM people in Moraine, Ohio feel that GM pumped money back into the local economy, before GM CLOSED the plant?

Does the Valley receive ANY amount of money from the State of Ohio?
If labor and the local democrats weren't so combative, the Valley could attract more companies and jobs.
When a company is looking to expand in Ohio, they aren't looking in northeast Ohio.

Where is the "slant"?

Return on state investment $67 to $1

Honda’s 16,049 direct jobs result
in a total Ohio employment impact of 128,406 jobs.

For each $1 Honda paid in wages during 2003, another $3.3 in earnings was generated in Ohio,

Honda employment in Ohio grew from approximately 60 employees in 1979 to 16,000 employees in 2004
Honda invested $6.1 billion in its Ohio facilities from 1979 to 2004
Honda purchases $7 billion in parts and materials from Ohio suppliers annually
There are 154 Honda suppliers in Ohio
There are Honda suppliers in 52 of 88 Ohio Counties

•Honda suppliers employ nearly 41,000 Ohioans.

http://development.ohio.gov/newsroom/...

Suggest removal:

111cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Honda also doesn't pay union wages and benefits to American workers but they do for their Japanese workers.

Suggest removal:

112JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

What is the rate difference?

Suggest removal:

113electrician101(22 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I gave you the rate difference. Read the link I posted. It’s in there.

There is no comparison in the value of GM to Honda in the MV. For every dollar Honda would generate for this valley GM workers and its suppliers generate 10,000 dollars. Only a fool would say Honda does more for the valley than GM.

Buying ANY GM vehicle enables GM to spend money on the Lordstown plant when it needs renovations or upgrades for new product.

You ALSO keep forgetting that workers at GM and its thousands of local suppliers pay taxes to the state of Ohio as well as local taxes. Local taxes in Marysville do NOTHING for the MV.

Also employees for GM spend 10,000X more in the local economy than Honda workers do.

Your promotion of Honda as a valley savior is laughable if not downright idiotic.

Suggest removal:

114JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Who said Honda does more for the Valley than GM, please read. I said they contribute indirectly.
Also, your link does not give the rate difference, only that Japan workers received a raise, please read.
I'm not knocking GM, I have bought/leased more of those than Honda or Toyota. I'm tired of hearing the myth that Honda, or Toyota, does not have a major positive economic impact for the U.S. The only reason people such as yourself and Cambridge bad mouths Honda/Toyota is because your bitter that their workers voted no to union representation. If the UAW did represent them, you wouldn't be running your mouth.
Your attitude is typical of why the Valley has been left behind. Now that truely is laughable!

Suggest removal:

115cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Where did I "bad mouth" Honda? Where did I ever make a comment that was "bitter" or otherwise about Honda workers voting for a union? I've never made any comment about them voting for a union or not.

That's your problem. You keep claiming you know what other people think or you need to "translate" someones statement. That makes the only thing that's laughable you.

If a person wants to work for a union or non union shop isn't my business or yours. You need to stick to explaining your own words and let other peoples words speak for themselves.

Suggest removal:

116JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

You made a statement indicating there is a rate difference between Japan and U.S. Honda workers, without providing any numbers. If that is not the translation, you are in fact putting a spin/slant on the comment. Are you not?
With that, you are critisizing Honda for the pay difference, and the fact the U.S. workers are non-union.
Apparently IT DOES BOTHER YOU, or you would have never made your initial comment.
Why do you keep this conversation going, especially after you made the statement that you were finished? You couldn't resist re-posting your original comment after Electrician chimed in.
The original argument goes back to buying something made in the U.S. You said yourself you looked for a garden hose that was made in the U.S., but was that a foreign owned company with operations in the U.S? It's irrelevant because it was made in the U.S.
I presented this question earlier, how is a Budweiser beer different than a Honda Accord? Both are produced in the U.S., but owned by a foreign company.
Globalization will not be stopped whether anyone likes it or not. So adapt or be left behind, and if that means attracting a foreign company to set up operations in the Valley so be it.
V&M is French owened, Sverstal steel in Warren is owned by a Russion company (at least for the time being). Is that so bad?
Getting back to GM, you cannot tell the consumer what he/she will buy, make a product the consumer wants.
Meanwhile, the Valley shouldn't put all of it's eggs in the GM basket, you would think the political leaders would have learned that from the steel mills.

Suggest removal:

117cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Your a funny guy. Here you are again "translating" my statements and "expressing" what I think.

Your a clown that doesn't know how to have a discussion. If someone states a fact, Honda doesn't pay their American workers union wages or benefits but they do for their Japanese workers, you feel free to claim the person said something completely different or interpret the statement or demand an elaboration on the statement. Who the F... are you?

The first half of your last statement is more of the same of your interpretations. You must have a lot of voices going off in your head.

Suggest removal:

118JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Not an intepretation, Electrician read your statement the same way - you are trying to slant it as if the wages in Japan are higher. Your just trying to weasel out of making a statement without facts, coward.
Fact is you can't argue it so you try and change the story around.
Your a well know arse on these boards.

Suggest removal:

119JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

We know the truth hurts you Cambridge, so you revert to changing the story and name calling, that's how you have a discussion?
Your classless and it shows.

Suggest removal:

120cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

LOL! I haven't changed one word I've said. You are the only one changing what I said and now you are interpreting Electrician interpreting what I said. You are truly hilarious and sad at the same time.

You claim I made a "statement without facts." The statement that Honda doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but does it's Japanese workers is a fact. Everyone knows it but you. If that statement isn't true then prove it.

Suggest removal:

121JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Electricians words:

"Here is the truth; Cambridge is correct:
Japan’s auto workers get pay raises (a bit) and better bonuses"

"I gave you the rate difference. Read the link I posted. It’s in there. "

The rate difference wasn't in the link, but that's besides the point.

Your post said there is a rate difference, and Electrician concurred - it is straightfoward without any "interpretation". Unless of course it's that "spin/slant" you like to use, or just a bad opinion. Now you deny it and want to change the story, because you are wrong....lol

Don't post if your going to argue with yourself.

Suggest removal:

122cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Which post of mine says "there is a rate difference"?

Which post did I "bad mouth Honda"?

Which post did you prove that the statement that Honda doesn't pay it's American workers union wages or benefits but do the Japanese autoworkers is false?

If Honda's American autoworker are paid union wages and benefits then post some proof of it because I can't find any.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/26/bus...

There is plenty of proof that Honda's Japanese autoworkers are union and therefore are paid union wages and benefits. If you have proof that that statement is not correct then post it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi...

Suggest removal:

123JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Flip-flop, what is a "union" wage? If you can tell us what the amount is, we could probably find out if it's the same or different for a U. S worker.

I realize your only point is that one has a union and the other doesn't. But why did you try and put a "spin" on it, unless of course it's because all of your posts are biased.

Suggest removal:

124cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I notice you didn't answer one question.

Why not? It couldn't be that you lied about the things you claim I said could it?

Suggest removal:

125electrician101(22 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

JME,

From the link I posted:

"That may not seem like much, but their average base salaries were already well above the national average: Toyota’s average monthly base will nudge up to 350,580 yen and Nissan’s to 355,400. According to the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare’s December 2006 data, average national wages (not including cash from bonuses) stood at 273,175 yen."

Which word of well above the NATIONAL average don't you understand?

Wow, that was tough.

Suggest removal:

126candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

still dating your sister..

Suggest removal:

127JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Electrician,

That is JAPAN'S NATIONAL average. The fact that the numbers are in Yen should have tipped you off. Is the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare a U.S. Agency?

http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/index.html

What part don't you understand? Apparently it is tough for you.

LMAO

Suggest removal:

128JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Cambridge,

Why not? All the spinning around your doing on your post is making you dizzy.

You stated there was a difference, in straightforward english.

What is it?

Suggest removal:

129cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

In post #24 you claim i said that "you are saying Ohio's Honda employees pay don't match up with Honda employee pay in Japan." I never said that. You lied.

In post #123 you claim I "bad mouthed Honda". You can't refer me to a post where I "bad mouthed" Honda because i never have. You lied.

In post #123 you claim I'm "bitter that their workers voted no to union representation." You can't refer me to a post of mine that reflects that claim because it never happened. You lied.

I'm calling you a liar because that's exactly what you are. You take a persons statement that disagrees with your point of view and you change the wording of that persons statement. What kind of low life does that? You're a phony that has not backed up one thing you claim I said with a post of me saying what you claim.

Just keep making up statements and claiming i made them. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself. You have no credibility.

Suggest removal:

130JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Electrician,

LMAO part 2, this may be too difficult for you to follow.

Even if that is the U.S. national average, where in that number does it say what Honda's U.S. workers make? It's an average of all pay rates. Some will be higher, some will be lower.
You do the homework, but both U.S. GM and Honda workers are probably above the U.S. Average for pay. That's why those jobs are valuable to economy's, no matter what the location or brand.

Suggest removal:

131JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Oh flip flop, give up. Stop trying to "interpret" what I say. Lol, does that sound like a familiar excuse?

You've been trying to spin your original comment round and round instead of just admitting you made a statement without facts, then tried to change your story. An opinion with a "slant" that you critisize others for doing. That's called a hypocrite.

We all know your posts are full of biased slants.

Suggest removal:

132cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Honda doesn't pay it's American workers union wages and benefits but they do their Japanese workers.

That is a fact the whole world knows. All except you. If you can post proof that statement is false then post it. It's really that simple. If what I'm saying isn't a fact then prove it.

Suggest removal:

133JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Flip flop,

Why don't you be man enough to admit that your only point was that one is union and the other is non-union. You don't have to admit the "spin" regarding wages.

Don't you have the "gears"?

Suggest removal:

134JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

You are stating the wages are different. Prove it!

Suggest removal:

135JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

It's straightforward English. Perhaps you didn't receive a high school diploma.

You can try and spin the statement all you want, and doesn't change your biased bs.

Suggest removal:

136cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Now you claim that I stated the wages are different. I never claimed that Again you lied.

I said that Honda doesn't pay American workers union wages and benefits but do to it's Japanese workers.

In post #96 I provide links. One link elaborates the fact that Honda's American workers are non union. That means they are not payed union wages or benefits. The other link elaborates on the bargaining with the Japanese autoworkers union. That means that they pay union wages and benefits to the Japanese auto workers.

In post #131 I posted the same two links.

I know that's probably a lot for you to comprehend, you being stupid and all. Maybe you can get someone to help explain it to you.

Suggest removal:

137JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

You are indicating that the wages are different.

Are they?

Simple question that you won't answer because it will show you made a statement wth a slant.

Suggest removal:

138JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Flip flop,

I suppose your next post will be your "interpretation" line, so you can attempt to change the argument instead of just answering the question:

Are the Honda's union wage rates different than non-union wages?

it's amazing that you are not bright enough to understand your own comments, unless your trying to spin things around.
Or can you think of a new twist to feed us all?

Suggest removal:

139cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

In post #143 you claim I said the wages are different. I never said that. You lied again.

In post #146 you claim that I will not answer what the wage difference is, In post #87 I did answer that question. You lied again.

I suppose your next post will be another lie so you can attempt to change the argument instead of just crawling back under your rock.

It's amazing that you are not bright enough to understand your own comments, unless your trying to spin things around.

You could probably get some professional help for that lying thing.

Suggest removal:

140electrician101(22 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

JME,

LMAO. You're given the monetary value in yen now convert it to US dollars. Geeeezzzzzz the average wage for a union Japanese autoworker is the equivalent of $26 to $27/hr. And that’s before their $20,000+ yearly bonus. Their US counterparts average $24 to $25/hr. These US non-union workers wages would be considerably less if the UAW no longer existed. The UAW wage drives the wage of the transplants since the Japanese automakers want to resist their workforce from becoming unionized so they pay comparable wages.

BTW BMW in SC no longer hire permanent workers. They use temps at $12/hr to build their "$80,000 ultimate driving machines." LMAO part 2

Suggest removal:

141JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Electrician,

Those numbers are for the Japanese National Average.

Those aren't numbers for the U.S. average.

Still LMAO because you can't figure it out.

Suggest removal:

142JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

LMAO part 2,

Most of those companies higher temporary workers so they can hand pick when they hire permanent. They do hire permanent at higher wages, but everyone starts as a temp.
It's so they don't get stuck with a bunch of losers like the UAW protect.

Suggest removal:

143JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

flip flop,

You said that Honda's Japan workers receive union wages, U.S. workers receive non-union wages.

Are they different? It's a simple yes or no answer.

Where is the lie, it's straighfoward english you used dumb a**, now you want to twist it all around.

The fact that you used the word "wages", your saying the two are different. What are they?

We know your point is one is union and one is non-union.

But you felt the need to throw the word "wages" in there to put a "slant" on it.

Your credibility is zero. Make a statement about different wages but cannot provide the source or the numbers.

Does Union wages = non-union wages?

You are stating that the two are different. Even Electrician understood that.

Answer the question ball-less. You keep trying to spin this whole thing around to avoid embarassment about stating a biased slant, without the numbers to back it up.

Come on, come up with another excuse other than "interpretation"

Suggest removal:

144JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Electrician,

Where are the numbers for Honda permanent workers for the Marysville plant, link?

Suggest removal:

145JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Flip flop,

I couldn't help to notice that now you are just repeating back the words I say.
You running out of "spins", bitter old man.

Suggest removal:

146southsidedave(4780 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

More rhetoric!!

Suggest removal:

147cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Trust me, I have nothing to be bitter about. I couldn't be happier. After all I have a fool like you to make fun of. Thanks for that.

Suggest removal:

148JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

You just live in denial and hope that the spins you throw around will fool people.

Keep posting them biased slanted opinions, then spin them around when someone proves you wrong flip flop.

We all know you are full of crap.

Suggest removal:

149cambridge(2996 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Always nice to hear from a fan.

Suggest removal:

150JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Back at you.

Suggest removal:

151Jake(112 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Bertram carrying water for Democrats is as predictable as the sun rising in the morning.

*YAWN*

Suggest removal:


News
Opinion
Entertainment
Sports
Marketplace
Classifieds
Records
Discussions
Community
Help
Forms
Neighbors

HomeTerms of UsePrivacy StatementAdvertiseStaff DirectoryHelp
© 2014 Vindy.com. All rights reserved. A service of The Vindicator.
107 Vindicator Square. Youngstown, OH 44503

Phone Main: 330.747.1471 • Interactive Advertising: 330.740.2955 • Classified Advertising: 330.746.6565
Sponsored Links: Vindy Wheels | Vindy Jobs | Vindy Homes | Pittsburgh International Airport