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TEA Party, union members battle over bargaining



Published: Fri, February 18, 2011 @ 12:01 a.m.

photo

AP

Hundreds of supporters for and against Senate Bill 5, fill the Ohio Statehouse rotunda Thursday, Feb 17, 2011, in Columbus, Ohio. (AP Photo/Terry Gilliam)

By MARC KOVAC

news@vindy.com

COLUMBUS

JoAnn Johntony remembers what it was like before Ohio passed its collective bargaining law more than 25 years ago.

Johntony, a Girard City Schools custodian for 44 years, remembers it so vividly that she made the trip to Columbus on Thursday to stand alongside fellow union members to oppose legislation making sweeping changes to that law.

“We made $2 an hour, and we worked like fools, and I never want to go back to that,” said Johntony, state president of the Ohio Association of Public School Employees. “And I don’t want any of our people to go back to that ever again. I will fight like hell.”

She added later, “The collective- bargaining bill has done so much good because it put everybody at a fair place at the table. And we’ve been able to work out contract negotiations without problems.”

Johntony was among thousands of union representatives and Tea Party members who jammed the Ohio Statehouse as lawmakers continued deliberations on a bill to eliminate collective bargaining for state workers.

A boisterous crowd of more than 3,800 cheered and jeered loudly enough to get the attention of lawmakers in a second-floor hearing room throughout the day.

It was the third day of testimony on the legislation but the first in which opponents were allowed to testify. And more than 38 people submitted testimony to the Senate’s Insurance, Commerce and Labor Committee voicing concern about the impact of Republican-backed reforms that would change how public employee unions negotiate wages and benefits.

Senate Bill 5 would eliminate collective bargaining for state employees. Local governments, including school districts, would still be allowed to use collective bargaining, though public employers in fiscal emergencies could modify, terminate or renegotiate agreements.

SB 5 also would require increased disclosure of compensation outlined in collective bargaining agreements and labor negotiations. Public employers would be allowed to hire permanent replacement workers during a strike, and layoffs would be based on factors other than employees’ length of service.

Gov. John Kasich supports the changes.

More than a dozen proponents of the legislation spoke during Thursday’s hearing, saying that changes are needed to enable state and local governments to better control costs.

Cincinnati Councilman Jeff Berding said union contracts have boosted the city’s labor costs 18 percent per year — at a time when tax revenues are down and the need for public services is rising.

“Personnel expenses have been the fastest growing expense in our budget, and tax revenues are unable to keep up,” he said.

Ray Warrick, a Tea Party member from southwestern Ohio, said Senate Bill 5 is needed to reduce government spending.

“The real debate here is the size of government,” he said. “Government is too big, costs too much and is entirely too intrusive and inefficient.”

State Rep. Robert F. Hagan of Youngstown, D-60th, said it’s great to see so many people come to the Statehouse to oppose the bill. But those at the Statehouse are probably too late, he said.

Passage is “a foregone conclusion,” Hagan said. “I wish we could do the election over again. I fear a lot of those union members, not a majority but a lot, didn’t vote [in last year’s statewide election] or voted Republican. Hopefully, this is a wake-up call for some.”

Once the bill passes, its opponents must mobilize to prepare a ballot initiative to get it repealed, Hagan said.

As the ranking Democrat on the Senate Insurance, Commerce and Labor Committee, state Sen. Joe Schiavoni of Canfield, D-33rd, heard all of the testimony. “I’ve never seen anything like it in terms of the number of people here and the length of the hearings,” he said. “I’m voting against it. It destroys collective bargaining rights.”

Schiavoni said it’s not a “slam-dunk” yes vote for Republicans, particularly those in districts with many public-sector employees.

State Rep. Craig Newbold of Columbiana, R-1st, said removing collecting bargaining rights for state employees is “a touchy subject for a lot of people. But given our economic situation, we have to look at these things. I think we have to do something. I’m in favor of looking at it. I’ve never been in a union. I need to understand their perspective and listen to the issues” before deciding.

State Rep. Ronald V. Gerberry of Austintown, D-59th, said Kasich said in his campaign that he would make changes to collective bargaining.

“I’m surprised he’s doing it” so quickly, Gerberry said. “I’m really surprised they’re going this far. It could likely get passed. They don’t need Democratic support.”

State Sen. Jason Wilson of Columbiana, D-30th, says getting rid of collective bargaining is a bad move.

Opponents said the bill would hurt public safety forces and school teachers, leaving them and other public workers with little means of negotiating fair pay and benefits.

Jay McDonald, a police officer from Marion and president of the Fraternal Order of Police of Ohio, said officers have given millions of dollars in concessions in recent years.

“My members who work for the Mahoning County Sheriff’s Office have given as much as 27 percent of their pay back to the employer to keep the operation running,” McDonald said. “We have proven time and time again that members have been willing to give concessions in these economic times.”


Comments

1Irishtiger(39 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

This bill, in NO WAY shape or form, is good for hard working Americans. But, then again, neither is the repuppetliCANT party or, heaven forbid, these radical idiot and poorly educated tea party dimwits. If the tea party were a legit cause, it would have existed before this while the bush fiasco was ruining our economy. Hagan said it right, though. Only a fool would forget to vote or vote for a republican when we know they would never back any labor groups. It's a sad day for Ohio. Very sad. Kasich will turn our economy into a bonfire. He is a total madman.

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2timOthy(802 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Totally against bill period ! But I am for looking at all contracts and adjusting them at the appropriate time . Ours in the Private Sector has been revisited numerous times with cuts and adjustments. An I'm a Tradesman with the Carpenters. You'll either adjust or be terminated. Your call ? Point being I was at my friends house in Cleveland,Oh. He purchased a new Truck and it had salt on it . He spayed his off at the State Yard and I paid at the car wash. And that just one with many many more situation as this ! Where is the fairnes ? He is just stealing off the tax payer period.

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3UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

We need this bill to pass, we want this bill to pass. Senate Bill 5 goes a long way to fixing the $8B budget problem in Ohio and leveling the playing field between the public employee unions and state run management. We taxpayers from the private sector can no longer afford to pay the high pay and cadillac pension & healthcare benefits for pubic emplyee workers.

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4willinnyny(76 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

For those of us old enough to remember the fascist black shirts and the nazis, there are deeply disturbing similarities between them and the Tea Party members --- who behave like a bullying mob.

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5InColumbiana(63 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

America is in a race to the bottom and the teabaggers are whipping Ohio into the lead!

How many companies are operating in the state tax free on the promise of creating jobs? How about an audit on all those so called jobs and we tax the ones that didn't pan out. IBM is big on this sort of thing, promising 1500 jobs in order to get tax free status, then only creating 200 jobs.... why is it that our teachers, police and fire departments get screwed but big business gets a wet sloppy kiss and tax free pass?

The teabagger ultimate goal is the minimum wage... wait till the only jobs out there are $2/hr and see how many people can afford to even buy a car, let alone rent an apartment. The teabaggers are looking for a slave (serf) nation and working their hardest to produce it for their corporate overlords.

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6lee(544 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I just got my tax bill and no the state workers should not be unionized. contrary to what Lord Obama said they are not my friends or neighbors, they are my employees and I need a lot less of them

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7tonne(199 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

i agree with geromajor. this is wrong, wrong, wrong. the state budget is badly broken and this is the first thing they can do to fix it? but its okay for the governor to hire new people and pay them exorbitant salaries because it's the only way to get the "best possible" people for those jobs. what idiocy.

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8Ragnar(1 comment)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I can see it all now.

If we keep collective bargaining for government employees, their unions are going to eventually end up doing the same thing they did for the industrial worker.

In a few more years all our cops will be from Mexico, our firefighters will all be Chinese, and our teachers will be Indian.

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9walter_sobchak(1856 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Unfortunately, the pendulum has swung too far one way for the unuions in this debate. Everyone knows that unions protect the lazy and inefficient workers at the expense of all. But, if I belong to a union and work harder to try to better things for myself and my family, I am held back by a contract that will limit my compensation. So, if I am a hard worker, where is the incentive?

Unions were originally set up in this country to combat unfair labor practices and strong management. They served their purpose as they forced management to change. But, for government employees, their is no adversarial relationship between management and workers because management stands to lose nothing. It is not their revenue or income; it is the taxpayer. And, the taxpayer is saying no to the high pay and exhorbitant benefits, the double and triple dippers, the payoff for unused sick, vacation, and personal days at current wages so that retirement benefits can be increased, and getting little value for their tax dollars, especially at the federal and state level. The farther my tax dollar gets from my pocket, the worse it gets for services.

So, for me, I would never pay anyone for the right to work because I was taught to work a little harder, longer, and better than the next guy. And, it has always served me well in my life.

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10dd933(223 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

JFK said, "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." One of the first steps in this process would be to demoralize the police forces that would be protecting the rich. Then we would alienate the teachers and folks who maintain the roads. Low cost fire departments would become useless in the face of the many fires that would occur spontaneously. And when the traffic signals fail or the water mains break or the sewers back up...Oh well!
Soylent green is people!

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11InColumbiana(63 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@lee -- that's right, you said it brother!

We need fewer police...
We need jails watched by volunteer Guardian Angels groups...
We need fire departments staffed by those who can barely appreciate the bright shiny bells and whistles on the big red truck...
We need our kids educated by high school drop outs who couldn't get work at WallyWorld or McDs...

I'm with you, all the way!

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12InColumbiana(63 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@Walter_s... -- If the elements negotiated by the unions are an issue, then why not just fix those elements? Why dismantle the who thing?

If you actually know what police or teacher salaries are, can you please post them?

As for the benefits, they can just change them... that's why its called negotiations...

I have no problem with them negotiating different terms.. but once they get rid of the unions, then we'll need more state and local employees to manage the HR processes that are now handled by the union... or they COULD pay more and outsource it to private companies... of course, we'll have to outsource it off shore because no one in Ohio will have the education for such things :-)

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13InColumbiana(63 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@Walter_s... -- which side are you on?

"if I belong to a union and work harder to try to better things for myself and my family, I am held back by a contract that will limit my compensation. So, if I am a hard worker, where is the incentive? "

vs

"no to the high pay and exhorbitant benefits, the double and triple dippers, the payoff for unused sick, vacation, and personal days at current wages so that retirement benefits can be increased"

You do know that is isn't mandatory to be in a union, right? If you don't like the wages of public service, you can go work for private schools, private construction companies or private security services.... Just like many of our current public employees will likely do if they bust the unions in Ohio.

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14jethead11(139 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Stand tall Republicans, the VAST majority of America is behind you on this one. Don't let the union thugs intimidate you. The people gave government workers the right to collective bargaining and their leaders abused it. Now the people are taking that right away. Don't believe the scare talk put forth by the unions, it is just meant to intimidate. Honest government workers need not fear anything (they will probably get a raise). The lazy, who are hiding behind union protection, may want to research how to apply for welfare benefits.

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15Attis(864 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

First Wisconsin with its tyrannical governor and now Ohio with our little, loud-mouthed gubernatorial Napoleon reject billions for High Speed Rail and then launch an aggressive war against public employees. The Republican play book to ruin our republic and democracy in action. Better send them back to under the rock from which they crawled.

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16CompMan(125 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

It is easy to condemn public employees and their unions; but is it totally their fault? Union employees in the public sector do not create or promote productivity in an environment where meritocracy does not exist. They are followers carrying out the peoples (tax payers) business doing what public sector management has instructed them to accomplish. Yes many employees do an excellent job in following direction and we should thank them. What we have is over generous pensions, health benefits with little or no deductables and co-payments, and ludicrous pay for sick/vacation days not taken. Why? Because management agreed to be extorted and continued to feed those at the zoo to make themselves look good. Union leaders propagated themselves as they won new contracts as management never had the cojhones to reject unreasonable demands and conduct the peoples business like the private sector. So let the unions demonstrate and howl in disbelief. The sleeping giant of taxpayers has been awaken by their crys and they will insert new public management accountability by withholding tax dollars. If necessary let them use bankruptcy proceedings to start anew. Let union employees, union leaders, public employees and managers look into the mirror and see who created the beast.

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17valleyview312(8 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I'm old enough to remember how violent labor was before collective bargaining. Just ask some old time politicians that got their windows shot out! Bomb threats and even beaten, when you mess with food on the table you better be ready. The budget has nothing to do with collective bargaining, if there is no money, I've seen many Public employees take freezes. What our politicians have to do is give freezes to BIG BUSINESS, that got billions in tax breaks! Tea Party People where were you then! Give me a break! These politicians are doing the bidding of Big Business and in particular Big Oil, they pay no taxes and have these tea party people fighting to give tax breaks to Arab shieks! America was built by the middle class you are destroyin I'd rather deal with my teachers, police and firefighters, than Big Business. Just think when Shell is selling you water, putting out fires, and patrolling your streets with illegal immigrants, think that's crazy! No more than tea baggers defending tax cuts for BIG OIL!!!!

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18Tigerlily(476 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

People like repugnican Rick demonize those who are working hard to put food on their tables and want on the right to have a voice in their workplace conditions. Take the country back for who, repugnican Rick? The wealthy? So we can live in a plutocracy? Yeah, baby, ram it up my butt some more. No lube. It feels great.

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19ValleyNative(174 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Abysmal graduation rates? No one cares.
Teaching to the test? No one cares.
Watching the US slide in world education rankings? No one cares.

Cut teachers' pay? Front page of the Vindy!

This is a tough issue. I work with many school districts in Ohio and see the crushing burden that unions can cause. Long-term liabilities cause many Treasurers to shake their heads and pray for a levy to pass. However, if that is the contract that was passed, then honor the contract. As we all learned in Business Law, courts don't care about whether a contract was "good" or "bad" for a party, just whether it contains the essential elements. That is where I side with the unions.

But hey, at least we aren't as bad as Wisconsin! I mean, how in the world can politicians just not show up? The state had to waste money having police officers look for the (key word) elected politicians who threw a temper tantrum and refused to show up. I truly thought it was a made up story (a la The Onion).

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20stewie(109 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

OK, Say this thing passes. Do you honestly think your taxes are going to be lowered or rolled back? Be honest. That is never going to happen !
This is nothing more than a power play by the republicans and the dimwitted tea baggers to get rid of the unions. If this passes you can be sure it will be the unions in the private sector that will be next ! If you don't believe that then you are a fool.

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21Tigerlily(476 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Yes, thank God a union protects my ass from people like YOU, who have personally affronted people like me in your own ignorant responses, repugnican Rick!

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22Fattkidd(45 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

There is a solution to all of this madness folks that will appeal to everyone... Democrat, Republican, Union, TeaParty, Green, etc etc...
Please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, watch these videos and pass them along to everyone you know.
<p>
http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/f...
<p>
Every state and the Federal Gov't need to get back to doing what the Founders intended and is stated in the Constitution...
Print and regulate their own currencies!
This is exactly what North Dakota has been doing all along and they always have SURPLUSES! and 4% unemployment! THEY are the bank in that state and they run it at a PROFIT!
This whole budget deficit and debt problem is BOGUS! We're paying private banks (interest) for the right to print and use OUR OWN MONEY/CURRENCY!
Do some research on what the Founders said about Central Banks! (JEFFERSON: Central banks more dangerous to liberty than standing armies! (we've got both!))
<p>
Ohio and Wisconsin could both get out of their debts and leave the working class alone by establishing a State Bank and printing their own currency which gets its value by being legal teder to pay all taxes/debts within that state!
<p>
NO INTEREST TO PAY... EVER!
<p>
I can't even tell you how important this is!

This whole debt/deficit thing is A SCAM PEOPLE!
Lincoln knew this and created the Greenback to pay for the civil war and reconstruction DEBT FREE and he was killed because of THIS NOT freeing the slaves! John Wilkes BOOTH was and ENGLISHMAN and Agent of the Crown/British Banking Cartel!!!
<p>
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!
<p>Or else you will "wake up homeless and penniless on the continent your forefathers conquered!" - Jefferson

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23PHISHIE(105 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

The best the way to resolve the issue is with facts. Arizona is a good example. Arizona is a right to work state, no unions in government there!! However, check their pay rates. The Upper Level Administrators and Directors make 3-5 times there suboridnates. :In other words the PEONS are paid very low wages while the bosses are paid huge salaries. That is what will happen in Ohio and Wisconsin.The PEONS by not having any advocacy, will subsidize the bosses huge salaries....The bosses will get the biggest share of the taxpayers taxes..PHISHIE

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24cambridge(2972 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

The teabaggers need to read up on the history of labor in this country before unions.

Organized labor helped every employee in this country to have humane working conditions, union and non union alike.

I see unions making concessions every time a contract comes up. There are far to many people that point to their counterparts in China and think to compete, that's what the American union member should be satisfied with. The people that think that's the solution should volunteer themselves. Let your boss know you're willing to work for the wages and conditions of your Chinese counterpart.

You might think that last paragraph is an exaggeration of what some people want to see happen. It's not. The financial wealth of the top 1% of this country is on par with the bottom 95%. Read that last statement a few times. That 1% are not satisfied with "their share" of the countries wealth. They want it all.

That 1% is who the teabagger/republicans go to Washington and State Capitols to represent. If they have their way and we return to the days before unions we will be a nation of the working poor with no health benefits and a future without dignity in their lives when their working days are behind them.

walter_sobchak claims "unions protect the lazy and inefficient workers". I spent my life working in industrial construction.
I worked in the field, I've been a foreman and a general foreman. Where I worked a "lazy or inefficient worker" got run off. Anyone with that reputation sat on the out of work list, usually until they quit the union. We don't want them and they represent a tiny percentage of the people i worked around. You produce every day or they send you back to the house.

The last 15 years I move into the office and spent my days interacting with engineers, architects and project managers. I can honestly say the union construction workers were far more efficient, productive and professional in their approach for their craft than what I experienced in the those last 15 years.

It's funny how teabaggers think passing a law like this will not have an affect on them. If the teabagger/republicans get what they want it will affect every worker in this country.

"Good night and good luck."

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25candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

this is a distraction from the real issue..$680 Billion in unfunded pensions for government workers.

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26ValleyNative(174 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Oh why oh?
Oh why oh?
Am I still in Ohio?

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27Fattkidd(45 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

The drastic cuts that will come down the pike in OH and WI and other states if these bills pass will force thousands of state employees to seek employment elsewhere. teachers, cops, firemen are already some of the lowest paid professionals in the nation. now, y'all want them to work for free? what's a teacher worth to you? 10$/hr? $8/hr? Remember, these folks are responsible for your kids!

Well, if I were a teacher, I'd quit. Teachers should quit en masse and let the GOP figure out what to do with everyone's kids while they're at work?

Y'all got a few hundred exta dollars a week laying around to pay for childcare for your kids while you're working?

I sure as heck hope so!

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28walter_sobchak(1856 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

This debate is over before it ever got started. Collective bargaining for government employees in Ohio will be abolished. If the unions don't like it, they can put petitions together and try to have it reinstated with a ballot initiative. Then, the people of Ohio can speak directly to it. But, the government unions only have themselves to blame for this climate. We see people doing the double-dip and know that it is time for the worker to move aside and let their union "brother" move into the position. Then, we see the people that accumulate their sick days, vacation days, personal days and wait for the big payday at the end. Ask Wendy Webb how she is going to live on that $111,000 final paycheck! Then, we see the employees getting Cadillac health care and pay little to no premuims for it. Then we see govt. employees having 205 or more of their wage being paid into their pension funds and they are asked to contribute nothing. Ask Dick Marsico how much his laborers pay into their retirement.

The truth is, the govt. workers are out of step with the ordinary worker in this country and it will cease to be that way. There are too many bargaining units in government at the county and state level. Sorry, the golden goose has crapped out!

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29walter_sobchak(1856 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Cambridge,

Sirt down because you aren't going to believe what I have to say. I also have spent my life in construction and I will have to agree with you about the trade unions. The grunt workers are usually hard working craftsman who do outstanding work. They are well-compensated but do an excellent job. You only have to see non-union work to see that. As an engineer, I ask construction workers all the time for advice on how something should be built. I know how to design but they are the experts at building. I would be a fool not to listen to them!

But, the work rules that the leadership insist on is a killer to business. Just like the contractor wants every last penny on a job, the union leadership only cares about the quantity of workers on a site. They only care about increased memebership and dues. All generalizations are faulty but everyone knows what I mean. Steelworkers used to get their 13 weeks in addition to their regular vacation, but no more. The steel mills had over 40 job classifications for labor and all the company heard was "that's not my job".

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30mrblue(969 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

All the state is looking to do is bust the unions and their contracts, period. All who vote for it will be voted out of office in the next election. In my opinion, this bill has no chance of passing.

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31valleyred(1095 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

It's either tax hikes for all or the end of collective bargaining for a small % of our the workers in Ohio.... Damned if you do or damned if you don't.

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32redvert(2048 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

cambridge, I fully agree with the good that unions have done in the past. But for every story you have about the pros of unions there are a equal number of stories of union abuse including strong arm tactics. And yes, there are slackers in unions that are protected because of who they are related to etc.

I never worked for a union since I preferred to advance on my merits and not just be a number waiting for the guy in front of me in seniority to vacate a job so I could advance. I worked in a high tech industry (semiconductors) and the unions learned real quick that we were able to think for ourselves. There were a couple feeble attempts at organization, both time by people who had been fired for being incompetent or abusing company policy.

Unions were a good thing until the dues became very attractive to the people that dictate what you do.

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33retiredfella(31 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

If the states are in such trouble and the politicians need to cut people, pay and benrfits let them lead by example. 1st cut all states an federal congressmen and senators by 1/3 we do not need this many politicians. 2nd cut the pay of the remaining state and federal congressmen and senators by 1/2. 3d there will be only what ss pays upon retirement from office and they use the same hospitilization as what is forced by their vote on the American people.Name one other job that pays full pay after one term in office.

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34Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

This is the hate that you voted in Live with it . The GOP, tea party have taken over BIG SMILE , BIG SMILE the Nazi's are here

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35Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

This is what TEA Party hate brings . Thank you for voting it in .

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36captainpeewee(61 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Good job Gov, next step kick baby momma out of the minitory ward and put her lazy a$s to work at wall-mart or Denies ,we can kill two birds with one stone it will save Ohio Billions and put a stop to the illegal alien problem.

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37HonestAbe(270 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

It would help if you Tea Party crackpots would learn to spell so that I could figure out what you're actually trying to say. Now...to my comment. In 2000, George W. Bush ran on a platform that included making all abortion illegal. The rabid conservatives came out to vote in droves, and that, along with a stolen election thanks to the US Supreme Court, begat 8 awful years of W's presidency. Well, Bush didn't do anything to make abortion illegal. That was just a bait and switch ploy, and the same thing is happening with Senate Bill 5. I'd like to hear an exact amount of how much will be saved if Senate Bill 5 passes. At most, it will be a wash. I see mass firings/layoffs ahead, which will result in more unemployment. If you're a small business person, how much tougher do you think it's going to be when more people become unemployed? If you think 9% unemployment is unbearable right now...think what it will be like if the unemployment number grows to 15%. If you don't think that could happen, you're a fool. With reduced wages of 300,000 state workers, how many less meals will be eaten at restaurants, how much fewer goods and services purchased? I know one of my first cost-cutting reductions will be to cancel the Vindicator...can read it online for free! As far as I'm concerned, this is one of those "be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it" scenarios. It's my personal belief the Republicans don't give a damn about the average middle-class person. The rich keep getting richer, the poor keep getting poorer...and the middle class keeps shrinking bit by bit every year. I'd like to hear one intelligent comment from a Tea Bagger who could discuss how the distribution of wealth in this country has drastically changed in fifty years....instead of the idiotic babble fed to them by the likes of Rush, Palin, Bachman, and the others. You Tea Baggers actually think those folks give a damn about you and the middle class? Hardly...they're laughing at you in your silly hats, all the while greasing the palms of big business, Wall Street, corporate banking, etc. This bill is all about taking away workers' rights and helping the rich get richer. Sad that you can't see it and that you are being treated like the mindless puppets you are.

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38redvert(2048 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Rocky14 wrote: "10% of the people in this country own 90% of the wealth!! THAT is the problem What this country needs is a good revolution."

Right on dingleberry, if you are too lazy or not smart enough to work hard and become one of the top 10% I guess you just want to take from the successful. Any guess on how long it would take for you to blow the money. Let me see, new doublewide, big GMC dually, bassboat. That should take care of your share!

You are obviously a upstanding member of the Socialist party!

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39newsmaker1(127 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

All this is happening because people like Hagan & Gerberry and Public Union heads have been lying to the people of Ohio.

We need Leadership, we need once again to become a business-friendly State

All the hot air and protest mean nothing, we are out of money. What is it that Public Union heads and lying politicians don't understand. They have misled the populace of this state, Jobs and employment opportunities are leaving the state, along with our young people.

The alternative is probably going to be mass and permanent reduction in public workforce.

The politicians are not working for the average Ohioan, around here, their working for the Union bosses.

The ballon just blew up.

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40candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

The U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that a contract can be reopened and changed in the event of a fiscal emergency.

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41cambridge(2972 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

The link below shows which states are right to work and which are not.

Everyone should take a long look at the map. Right now Ohio isn't a right to work state. Take a look at the other states that are not right to work and what those states are about what their quality of life and expectations for the future are. The diversity in employment opportunities, % living below the poverty level, and anything else you can think of.

Now do the same thing for those right to work states and consider the exact same things. Are these really the states Ohio wants to model it self after?

http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

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42Bigben(1996 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Just more destruction of what is left of America.

If teachers and safety forces were banks who were corrupt they would be getting a big bailout.

For those who think this is the tea party-the tea party has been infiltrated and co opted by the banks and corporations .Once big dome forced their way in it was over as a legit organization.

It is made to look like a rep /dem thing but it isn't there is more agreement than you could imagine. Both parties are controlled by the globalists and this was decided long ago.Pro wrestling has to be made to look convincing enough for the stupid.They want the US bankrupt to control the sheeple.Welcome to the NWO.

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43cambridge(2972 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Just for a little perspective. The teabagger/republicans in Washington that are leading this agenda live in lavish homes, ride in limousines and private planes and dine on restaurant meals that probably equal some peoples weekly food bill. All payed for by the taxpayer.

After one term for a Senator and five years for a House Representative they receive a lifetime pension and lifetime health benefits and other lifetime perks.

These are the people that think teachers, police, firefighters, EMS, county workers, nurses and tradesmen are the problem. Take their pensions and health care they spent a life time working for while congress gets theirs for life after five minutes on the job.

Their answer is to break not only government unions but all unions. All those skilled workers with years of experience will then be competing with their non union counterparts for jobs. I have no doubt the x-union workers will not be the ones sitting home.

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44Bigben(1996 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

republicanRick-Fact we are headed back to the late 1800s . Re read your history and see all the facts from that era.

Take a hit-How about the banks taking the hit. They along with the idiots in DC pushed the stupid loans through that created a housing bubble -the repercussions we are still dealing with. The overbuild was intentional.

More than just robbing them of their wages they want to steal their pensions too. But that is OK Rick screw them right.I mean we can afford to do away with more tax money that these folks contribute right?

Steal their money and than we can allow these gambling establishments to come into our area and fleece more folks maybe use some of the stolen pension funds to build them.

They will still show a loss but that is OK . Just write the losses off and hose what is left of the tax payers . When the tracks go broke tax money can be used to tear them down.

Why should people who want to make a livable wage be screwed while the banksters and corporations laugh at us all.Wake up for crying out loud.

So Rick how do you benefit from this scenario? When did logic die ?

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45Bigben(1996 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I have tried to show folks on here that political parties died. It isn't a right left thing.

Private corporations make these decisions people. Insurance companies wrote the health care bill for example .They tell the politicians what to do.

There are no dem or reps parties in any real sense if you still believe that then the joke is on you and your getting what you deserve.

If I have billions of dollars I can buy influence in both parties.Do you doubt that?It is a show.

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46redvert(2048 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Yes Rocky, I am struggling! I just got done paying off the mortgage on my summer home in Ohio, makes two of them paid off. I have two classic cars and also own commercial property in Florida with no mortgage. It is tough but I am hanging in there.

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47redvert(2048 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

cambridge, thanks for posting the link below.

http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

I copied a couple parts of the Florida right to work law.

447.03. Employees' right of self-organization.

Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor unions or labor organizations or to refrain from such activity, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing,

447.17 Civil remedy; injunctive relief.

(1) Any person who may be denied employment or discriminated against in his employment on account of membership or nonmembership in any labor union or labor organization shall be entitled to recover from the discriminating employer, other person, firm, corporation, labor union, labor organization, or association, acting separately or in concert, in the courts of this state, such damages as he may have sustained and the costs of suit, including reasonable attorney's fees.

In a nutshell, it means that you can organize and join a union if you wish and you cannot be denied employment based on whether or not you belong to a union.

Looks good to me. Life in Florida is not perfect. Too bad it cannot be as good as it is in Ohio. That is why so many retire in Ohio from Florida. Now I know you can probably find something that is better in Ohio then Florida.

In comparing my six month expenses in Ohio Versus Florida, I find that Florida costs me ~ $400 dollars more (due to living near the beach). That is what a good snow blower would cost me!

You do understand that Lib congressmen enjoy the same big pensions that Pubs enjoy don't you? It is not what you said in your statement, it is what you kind of left out!!! And I take it that while the Pubs are eating in the fancy restaurants, the Libs are eating at "Mickey D's"

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48Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

This is what you voted in !!! FOOLS what did think he was going to do . Help Ohio
Big smile , Big smile . Start practicing your goose step

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49redvert(2048 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Well, I wasn't about to learn the "Jive step"

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50cambridge(2972 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

If the wages and benefits of these government workers is what is causing the problems in this country then they should work more for less.

I think the problem lies with the teabagger/republicans who just gave a tax break to the richest Americans. I guess they need it. The wealthiest 400 people made more money than the bottom 150 million. In 2007 the top 1% made more money than the bottom 50%. They don't need a tax cut they aren't paying enough.

If the top 3-4% are making most of the money and get tax breaks, loop holes, tax shelters, phony offshore business, offshore accounts and who knows what else, that might be the reason Washington or the states do not have the money to run the government.

Keep cheering it on like you will not be affected. They want "the whole world Chico, and all that's in it".

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/s...

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51cambridge(2972 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I forgot to mention make sure you watch the video in the link I provided with my last post.

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52redvert(2048 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

"They don't need a tax break, they are not paying enough" Is that progressive Socialist or regular? I guess that it is important that we punish success. Since the top 5% or so pay the majority of the taxes I don't think they are the problem. How dare them have their tax rate reduced from 39% to 35%. Those B#%&*rds!!!

And you were referring to the obowser tax cuts I would guess, The bush cuts expired! Good thing congress was able to override obowser's veto wasn't it?

He did veto the tax break didn't he? Oh god, don't tell me he signed it. Can you tell that I am enjoying this???

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53Bigben(1996 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Rick

The fact is we have an unconsttiutional banking system known as the federal reserve which is private and non governmental.

Fact -It the FED R makes debt money out of thin air-nothing backs our currency.When they lend money it is debt money . There isn't enough money in circulation to pay the debt. If you print more it causes inflation . Thus the catch 22. The only way to end the madness is to go back to Constitution type banking with money backed by something tangible and run by Congress.

Fact the US Const states that Congress shall coin money.

Fact until this problem is addressed , it will not be possible to pay even the interest on the debt. No amount of cutting will pay the interest .-

The interest is too high it is too late.So denying people a real salary will not do anything about the states being broke -NOTHING .Not even a little drop -nothing.(Notice though how the FED Govt will send money down to the states via the private corporations if it is something said corps want done and all at your expense. But cant afford to pay salaries? Come on.Talking about 300 million dollar casinos-Huh? Yeah lots of money for that.)

Under your logic because the private sector got screwed now the public sector should get screwed. -But the debt has no end.So the argument makes no sense.I was raped so I want others to be raped too. _Very dumb.

Instead say I was raped and I don't want the bastards getting anyone else.Divide and concur r is their tactic and it can only work if folks are ignorant of their devices.

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54Bigben(1996 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

redvert-Thus why I always say there is no difference the banks and corps are running the show-"And you were referring to the obowser tax cuts I would guess, The bush cuts expired! Good thing congress was able to override obowser's veto wasn't it?

He did veto the tax break didn't he? Oh god, don't tell me he signed it."

Don't stop there -Iraq ,borders ,bailouts ecte ect ect. It doesn't freaking matter which party is in power.We get screwed get it ?

Because it isn't about parties it is about globalism.

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55redvert(2048 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Bigben, I agree with you 100%. My post was in answer to some here who cannot admit that just maybe their party is at much at fault as the other.

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56Bigben(1996 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Rick -Entertainment " No I gave you the truth the Federal reserve is the problem .They run the money system as a private for profit organization.If you can't see that than I pity you.

Second The private sector should make more money ?

Someone from Macy's should make more than a fire fighter who runs into burning buildings police who put their lives on the line daily or teachers that must be state licensed and under go continuing education to be certified out of their own pocket even after attaining a masters degree?

OK just checking.

As for debt -look it up for yourself we aren't on a gold standard so we have a debt economy.That will never change until we have real money.Every loan that a bank loans out is debt dollars.The whole economic system in this nation is debt based which the founders warned us against.

Therefore how anyone can say this party did this or that party got us here is beyond me.Under both Bush and Obama we went deeper into debt and neither one could stop it if they wanted to because the Fed runs the economy not the Pres.The Pres doesn't print money neither do the courts nor Congress although Congress should be.

So getting out of debt under the current system is impossible.

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57candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Nevada does not have collective bargaining ... the Las Vegas Fire Fighters still managed to make $250k in 2009 by abusing sick leave...lol.

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58Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Just give the tea party guns and they will solve the problem like they do everything
BIG SMILE BIG SMILE

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59redvert(2048 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Surprise, some of us already have guns and we aren't even tea party members.

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60ojanet22(134 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

My daughter is a teacher and she earns EVERY PENNY and then some. I'd like to see some of you critics do the job! We need our teachers and safety forces. Don't let this ninny so-called governor screw it up! Can't wait til the next election.

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61Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Surprise Surprise ,
Some of us already have guns and we aren't even tea party members
Some are GOP/ tea/ KKK . or whatever you call yourself and all march to the Big Smile , Big Smile of the hate

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62Michelle61(2 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

The hardworking middle class has always been the backbone of America. If government officials the likes of Kasich have their way, that back will be broken.
In an economy where everything is on the rise except the blue collar paycheck, how can we be expected to lose what little protection we have--our unions? Why is it that every time someone wants to trim the fat, they hit the ones who live from paycheck to paycheck and have no more flesh to give? It's time to start at the top, with those who have been given preferential treatment for far too long. Bill 5 doesn't just affect state employees, it affects the entire community. Where is all our money spent? Right here at home. We don't have the means to jet around the world, spending cash like rich people do. Our hard earned money is spent keeping local businesses going. Let the idiots like Kasich keep bleeding the turnip instead of trimming from their well padded ASSets and we'll be smack in the middle of another depression.

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63Bigben(1996 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

OK revert.

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64Bigben(1996 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Thomas we can do without Starbucks but we kind of need people to put a fire out when our house is burning down.

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65Zeke(1 comment)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

By the way, lot's of people union or not made 2 bucks an hour 45 years ago. The problem with teacher contracts is that we have teachers retiring after age 56 making 85% of their salaries for the rest of their lives. We have administrators paying nothing towards their retirement and health care while receiving money for car usage. I worked in union steel mills 35 years ago and people were sleeping and hiding back then and that still continues. Unions did a lot of good things for workers and saved a lot families but it's gotten totally out of hand. We just can't afford more of the same. Time has come.

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66hmm(179 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@Im you forgot to dumb up the point about upper public sector ... THEY are management so they're not in a union.and not affected by the bill . Also ALL ohio taxpayers are supporting 2 homes for the Govenor which includes paying for the security measures to his PRIVATE home that he's living in..

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67Constructor(105 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Rumor has it that the unions rallying against SB5 have obtained a list of attendees to Kasich's luncheon with the Chamber of Commerce this afternoon.

It will be very interesting to see which people/business owners are trying to destroy the ability of working families to make a decent and fair living in this area. This could get ugly!

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68civicpride003(1 comment)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I can not understand how difficult this is to understand.... From what I have seen the Republican party which is supported by the stance of big business and small government is running rough shot over peoples rights to haul in more profits. With smaller government and less accountability for big business ALL people in the middle and lower class are taken advantage of. It's high time to start taxing those that have reaped the most benefits from others. How about this time get smart and REMEMBER this is ALL brought to you by REPUBLICAN run government.

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69cambridge(2972 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I see this as nothing but sour grapes. Workers in the private sector have been going backwards for the past five years. Their pay and hours have been cut and benefits cut, their jobs shipped out of the country.

Now even though the public employees have given back themselves and are willing to give back more, that isn't enough. Many in the private sector want them to lose their bargaining rights and as much pay and benefits as possible.

What people in the private sector should be doing is joining these union members fight and fight to regain what they have lost themselves.

People that don't belong to unions don't understand the commitment union people have. They are not going to lay down. They are not going to get stepped on and just take it. This is a prime opportunity in this country for the middle class and the working people, union and non union alike to make a stand.

If you people that are non union think that the top 1% are done taking from you, you are mistaken. They want it all they will keep cutting your pay and hours and the republicans will keep representing that 1% and convincing you to call for the suffering of others like some how that is going to lessen the suffering in your life.

That 1%, I know some of you think your one of them, that they think their one of you. You're kidding your self and that 1% is laughing at you.

The top 1% make as much income as the bottom 50%. A hand full of people make as much income as the bottom 150 million. Anyone who doesn't see that as out of whack and isn't part of that 1% is a fool. The top 3-4% make more than the bottom 95%. I would say that union and non union people in this country have more in common than you think, We need to be joining each other in this fight for what is fair for the middle class and the American worker.

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70CitizenJ(34 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

All this bill will do is drive all of the good employees from the public sector into the private sector. They won't have a choice. The public sector has to offer competitive pay and excellent benefits in order for people to want to work in the public sector. Otherwise, very few well qualified individuals will actually choose that career path. Rather than trying to strip down those who happen to be doing better than you and bring them "down" to your level, you should be fighting to get "up" to their level.

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71Mondoman(6 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

no wonder the teabaggers want the unions out.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publica...

can't have those types making it. what a bunch of racist

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72mcgtrinsofla(6 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

what did the deluded dupes in ohio expect when you voted for a former faux news "commentator" with a HUGE KOCH habit! once aagin, the amerikkkan public gets just what it deserves!

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73AntiFascist(61 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Fascism at its finest!!!!

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74disgustedjoker(46 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I can not wait to see how this all turns out. Political promotions and huges raises will be given to those who are not quallified and they will be rewarded for what political party they supported. Atleast a union contract spells out how to promote and keeps the wages fair across the board. I cant imagine the disaster ahead of us. Private employees and the tea party shouldnt pass judgement unless they know how the system works. If they really look in to who is hired/promoted and their qualifications, they'd change their minds! It's not the unions that are the problem. Every union in Mahoning County has taken concessions or they have faced layoffs so to place the blame on the unions is just ridiculous! Nothing but union busting! Governor can sugar coat it any way he wants.

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75fd6636(255 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

OK. FOR THOSE INC. THE DUMBA## TEA BAGGERS PARTY, HERES HOW THE REPUBLICANS WANT THIS TO GO. NOW, FOLLOW CLOSELY TEA BAGGERS AND MAYBE YOU'LL GET IT. HERE GOES:
1. REPUBLICJERKS PASS BILL REMOVE UNIONS.
2.UNIONS CANT COLLECT DUES, CAN"T CONTRIBUTE TO DEMOS RUNNING FOR OFFICE.
3. TWO PARTY BECOMES ONE PARTY: DEMOCRATIC PARTY BECOMES SOCIALIST ONE PARTY DICTATORSHIP.
4.PEPUBLIBS CAN DO WHAT EVER THEY WANT, DONT CARE WHAT THE TAX PAYING PUBLIC, NO, SCRATCH THIS, SERVENTS OF THE REGIME WANTS.
5. WILL THEN CAST TEA PARTY ASIDE LIKE A TWINKIE WRAPPER THAT OPENED ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, THANKS TO THEM FOR DOING THEIR "LEG WORK"
6. END OF USA AS WE KNOW IT.

SO YOU THINK ITS ALL ABOUT BUDGETS, AND PLEASING THE TAX PAYER? NAW, ITS ABOUT THE CREATION OF A SOCIALIST PARTY. ASK GOV. WALKER, HE AND KOCH BROS. WILL TELL YOU. BUT THEY MOST LIKELY WONT. NOW DO YOU GET IT????

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76wownut54(4 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

..."We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers' salaries and take away their right to strike." Adolph Hitler, May 2, 1933

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77taliwacker(54 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Well what these whiners, and moochers don't seem to get, and i will spell it out for you. Cause god for bid you actually have to apply those college educations to things other than their pocket books..
Lets say it like this... You can take this now, and everyone currently employed by this state, have a job. Or in July 2500-3000 of you get the pink slip.
Option 2, you can take this deal here, and still have a job, or the state can file fiscal emergency, or bankruptcy, and then be able to renegotiate, or terminate all contracts with the unions... Then you get to really get the good pay...
either way you look at it, you can take it, and have a job, or you can try to pay all your bills on $1200-$1800 a month.... Either way I have a feeling ill need to get my lawn chair, and margarita's ready, cause the soup line is gonna get long...
O and to the one who stated people move to another area, or state for union benefits.. FYI, this is being planned in 26 states so far.. but only about 5 or 6 have pushed it into talks already... And i do believe the rights to work are already enforced in 22 other states.so good luck with that, allot of people to work in 2 states...

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78tnmartin(203 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I have been watching this for more than 50 years now. It's a farce and a tragedy all at once.
There is hardly a place in the United States where the Democrat Party has a stronger choke hold on the local political scene. And there is hardly any place where it is more dangerous to say anything bad about unions of any kind. Evidently the seeds Gus Hall planted here way back when sprouted.
The results?
Is this area a paradise?
Are good jobs going begging on every street?
Are employers vying to come into the area to avail themselves of all these highly skilled unionists?
Are we inundated with those from all over the nation coming here to share in our economic vitality?
Are you on drugs or something???
There's growth all right. Growth of despair, joblessness, and broken families. Our children, and their children, either are leaving or already did, seeking the jobs that the unions and the political thugs they support have chased out.
The only places in the country that are seeing growth are in the Right-To-Work states, the areas that need not bow to Richard Trumka and his ilk.
Hope you're proud of yourselves.
As far as public employee unions, it takes some truly amazing levels of deceit to make that seem like a good idea. Now you see that lazy rude creep at DMV protected by Snivel Service rules, AND by the union. The citizens don't count, and the union collects dues to support politicos who will -and do - agree to unsustainable contract terms. Which has been the case nationwide, not just in Wisconsin, Indiana, New Jersey, New York, California, and Illinois.
Enough of this garbage.

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79margarita(19 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Get over it already!!!! We can't afford to carry you anymore! Get planning your finances because the taxpayer in the private sector is done! You will have to contribute as much as we do and plan your future. Rally all you want, but the voting taxpayer has been heard!

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80HonestAbe(270 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Average Citizen...I have your answer. Most commenting here really think teachers and educators are glorified babysitters anyway, so let's pay them like babysitters. Say you pay $5 per hour to have a teacher babysit your kid...over a 6 hour day, that's 30 bucks. Now, you have 30 kids in your classroom, so that's 30 dollars a day for 30 kids..or $900 a day. Most teachers work 180 days a year...that's $162,000. Yet according to this website, teacher salaries in Columbus start at less than $35,000 a year...and average about $50,000. The state requires all teachers must eventually earn a master's degree. So what's a teacher REALLY worth? I'd say for $50,000 a year, tax payers are getting a bargain!

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7166438_ave...

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81tnmartin(203 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

So many questions .....
I guess we don't need to worry about "having big business come and pay very little if any taxes". It may have escaped your attention, but that's not happening here, is it? Most "big businesses", the kind that might be ABLE to hire many workers, avoid this area like the plague. With the attitudes shown here, who can blame them?
As far as paying low wages, I don't know how to say this nicely: some people's work isn't worth more than minimum wage, and some are overpaid even at that. Ask any employer who is saddled with those who WILL not work, which is worse than those who just can't do the job. Want to talk about the idiocy of "rate" in a union operation? I have strong memories of lift truck operators at Packard sitting in the break area for half the day because they'd already made the "rate" number of lifts. By 10:30.
With respect to "educators" and the pay thereof. The issue is not just direct pay, but total compensation cost. If you are paid "only" $45,000 (an arbitrary and probably incorrect figure) but have another $35,000 in various benefits like pension, medical, etc. etc. etc., then the cost of that person is lots more than the salary. And, please, don't tell me that all these teachers are worth that. Some are. Some are worth more. Some should have to pay for the privilege of having somewhere to go during the day, they not only contribute nothing they do real damage. And we all know it. If you don't like a teacher's wage, don't become one. Simple. Incidentally, it's a open secret that the LOWEST average IQ on a college campus, of students and faculty, is in the department of Education. (Social Work comes close, and so do the various ".xxx Studies" groups,) So let's drop the pretensions of great scholarly achievement while we're at it. And, by the way, the idea of a mandatory Master's in Education is so silly only a politician could support it. Fact is, the RESULTS achieved back when the average elementary school teacher was a graduate of a "normal" school, a 2-year program, were better than what we see today. Perhaps the concept should be re-thought.

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82Fattkidd(45 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

300 hundred economists including Moody's analysts and McCain's former econ adviser have concluded that these GOP budget cuts will lead to more unemployment and less money coming into Fed, state and local coffers. Sorry to break this to you cool-aid drinkin tea baggers but, cutting wages of working folks does not result in economic growth. quite the opposite. but, that's the GOP plan as admitted by their own consultants... trash the economy even further to ensure a GOP presidential victory in 2012. So, go ahead and keep voting against your own economic interests and see where that gets you. I predict Ohio will lose more jobs and will be in even more dire financial situation two years from now. But, I'm sure y'all will find a way to blame it on the working poor.

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83sameolhub(55 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

If O'bama and the Dumocrats haven't made us a third world nation yet, I doubt if an educated conservative like Kesich can. Here is my questions for all you union loving morons: If Governor Kesich and Governor Walker in Wisconsin were black men, due to the fact that you so strongly disagree with them, would that make all you union loving dumbocrats RACISTS?

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84Fattkidd(45 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

sameolhub... why don't you argue reality instead of making up stuff to get bent out of shape over? Has anyone called Kasich and Walker racists for wanting to kill off the middle class? No, they just call them idiots.

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