UPDATED: Production suspended at GM Lordstown

Tom Mock said the problem pertains to “material provided by a supplier ... that could impact customer satisfaction with our products.”
I think that's called another "quality problem" from UNETHICAL GM, who continues to ignore their obligations to the Delphi retirees!

Gov't Motors is just gearing up for next year when they will have a series of stoppages (in all plants) followed by starts again - this in turn will reflect on the unemployment numbers and will help Obama look good towards the elections...

Good old Gov't Motors - still screwing the same people that had trust in them for years!!

I'm so Sick & Tired of you anti-GM people!!!! Instead of rooting for a company to succeed, all you do is cut them down!!! GM employees alot of people and when something happens at GM, it affects these people and their families. What do you want all these people to be out of jobs, turn to unemployment, not being able to provide for their families & etc??? You Are A Bunch of Sad, Sad People!!!!
FairandEqual-I'm so tired of you bashing GM, because of your benefits!!! Get over It!!! My dad worked at GM from the day it opened, til he retired and has not an ill word to say about GM. Alot of people lose their benefits, but for some reason you go on an on about your grudge with GM. When people worked for GM in their heyday, they were paid wonderful and had wonderful benefits, with the limited work they did. Well, Welcome to the 21st century-things have changed!!! No job guarntees you when you retire, that you will get what you deserve. GM problems had to do with people like you that continue to cry, because concessions had to be made and you weren't willing to give a little just to help a company survive. I will support GM as long as they are here!!!!

DAL - I have no problem with the people that work for Gov't Motors ... the problem I have is that they screwed all the people that had trust in GM before the bail out - they file bankruptcy and screw the lowly stock holders but make sure the Gov't stock options are fine ... you think this is a people friendly company? Do you think they would think twice about screwing the people again; regardless if you work for them or not? My father also worked for them; 37 years, and he has A LOT of ill words to say about Gov't Motors so just because your father doesn't have anything bad to say there are A LOT out there that do!

DAL - I have nothing against the people who work at GM, ONLY the UNETHICAL Corporation. I'm sure YOU would just say ooooh well if GM screwed YOU from your earned pension, while at the same time topping up ALL other worker groups. Ya right! You're a hypocrite! And did they take your Daddy's pension away? I think NOT! Don't buy GM products, folks, until they do the ETHICAL thing!

Fandflee is a disease. This clown didnt have anything bad to say about gm as long as HE was receiving a paycheck from gm. This person is a hypocrite and an fool. This person exemplifies the term unethical.

Hanky - You are exactly right. I didn't have anything bad to say about Gm, as long as they lived up to their OBLIGATIONS to me. The discrimination GM CHOSE to do to 21,000 Delphi retirees costs us AND this Valley dearly! So, are you saying we should ignore GM's UNETHICAL CHOICE like YOU are? In other words, as long as YOU"RE still getting what GM promised to YOU, screw everyone else? You don't know the meaning of hypocrite then. Of course, YOU probably never did!

That's why I buy fords

Is this really suprising? I mean, a shutdown before the holidays, paid....can't beat that! I wish MY employer paid for ME to not have to come to work, but I have to get up everyday and go to work....for a company that has never once had to accept a government bailout and never once screwed over its 21,000 retirees!! GM stinks! And the sooner you realize it, the sooner the "suppliers" will get back to work!

Honda

Lots of opinions but no facts. Must be Monday.

I love how people who dont work at gm lordstown, know whats going on there. I hate to burst your bubble, but nobody with any sense is worried about gm lordstown. We are going to be just fine, diesel cruze, 2 door cruze, and possible hybrid cruze. Honestly i dont know how we are going to keep up. BTW, most of you pencil pushers couldnt last until first break. Quit hating, and just be glad gm is still in our community.

Big bad fandflee the engineer, didnt realize the ship was sinking at delphi? Sure he/she did, he/she was just too busy cashing those checks for martini lunch hour to care. AGAIN, lets start placing blame for the delphi situation where it is due. Who was ceo of delphi when they went belly-up? What political party (republican) had complete control of federal legislation at the time of delphi going bankrupt? Fandflee thought he/she was part of the 1% at delphi, in reality they werent. Towing the company line and treating the hourly worker poorly blew-up in this persons face. He/she just cant wrap their head around the company screwing them, after all their management, their the ones who are supposed to do the screwing, not he other way around. Write gwb, maybe he can help.

Well fellas, ask your Shop Chairman what the UAW would do if they were ROBBED of their pensions by GM. The UAW would strike! And strikes don't temporarily hurt the local economy Well, it's not just a union privilege to stand up against what is wrong. When GM does the right thing, so will our view, just like in a strike. GM must EARN respect by theier CHOICES. Until they do, DO NOT BUY GM products!

God I love GM stories on vindy.com!

This no doubt will have the GM'ers versus to the non-GM'ers trading barbs.

Idiotic comments on both sides.

Non-thoughtout posts on pure emotion.

Republican versus Democrat.

Getcha popcorn ready.

Hank, my husband works at GM. The funny thing about the Delphi workers that came over to GM, retained their pay, senority and their benefits, while the new people that were hired in 2008 at GM, came into the company making much less then half of what the Delphi workers and current GM workers were making. Did you hear these new hires crying over their wages, NO!!! They were and still are Proud to be an GM employee. It just t's me off, when you hear people that in the past that have worked for GM or Delphi cut GM down. When they wish hardship on GM, they are wishing hardship on the current employees and their families.

FairandEqual-Yes, my DADDY did retain his pension, because he was a Genuine GM employee, not a Delphi employee. It's not GM's problem that Delphi screwed you retirees when they were supposely supposes to close the doors and GM took in Delphi employees.
I'm no longer going to agrue my point with you. You see thing your way and I see them my way!!!!

Hanky - Good to see that you're still using the same incorrect arguments. They reflect well on you...LOL. Did you talk to Graham, like I asked you to? Or aren't you that high on the food chain? If youe don't want GM badmouthed, then have the UAW stand up and support the effort to end the discrimination against the one worker group.

Until you do, you can keep your mediocre quality CURSES.

DAL - So it's OK for GM/Obama to bring GM/Delphi out of bankruptcy and top up the pensions of ALL worker groups at BOTH GM AND DELPHI except one? GENUINE GM? Are you kidding me? The Delphi reitrees worked the vast majority of their careers for GM!! And, GM IS topping up the Delphi hourly pensions, AS THEY SHOULD! Their was NO binding contract in bankruptcy court with ANY union either. GM CHOSE to screw one group, so SCREW YOU, GM!!

LOL...ya, when GM honors their obligations. Not before. And I'm making sure to convince lots of others not to, as well.

Personally? Many. And remember, there are 21,000 retirees that were screwed by GM, and their spouses, and their grown children, and their children's Facebook friends, etc, etc. Btw, is anyone sayin' what quality item GM SCREWED UP this time, besides their SCREWING of 21,000 retirees?

Since F&E left the wings of GM, I see their quality has improved.

F&E reminds me of a bitter employee who always finds something to complain about. I bet he never had anything good to say about his employer when he was working, thus the employer felt no sorrow in legally cutting his benefits under a bankruptcy.

Many of us have faced the same circumstances, but we have moved on. I myself have lost my potential retirement benefits from the sale of my former employer's business. My wife lost most of her retirement benefits where she worked when she was forced to take a very early retirement or get laid off.

We have recovered. We have moved on, because dwelling on the past leads to an early death. For your own sake F&E, move on before you kick the bucket and everyone remembers you as the knucklehead who complained and complained til he finally died and made everyone happy.

Well, I told my family and friends, who told their families and friends, who told their families and friends, etc., etc.,and etc, and also the past and present GM employess, who told everyone to support to GM. So, that should make up for all the people you told and your 21,000 retirees who are disencouraging people from buying GM products.

Fandflee should have retired under gm when he/she had the chance. You see, this person conveniently leaves this little piece of info out of his rants. BTW, under the last contract, we couldnt strike. Shows exactly what fandflee doesnt know. He/she is the smartest former delphi engineer NOT to have a job.

And the typical valley "no-it-alls" continue on with their negativity. What I find amazing is nobody seems to talk about back in 1979 when Chrysler under the chairmanship of Lee Iacocca borrowed 1.75 billion dollars from the government when old Jimmy Carter was president and they paid it back just as GM did. Nothing negative there. You guys need to move on with your life. GM is the best the valley has and will continue to be.

DAL - Better talk up UNETHICAL GM some more. CURSE sales have fallen for 7 consequtive months, including theough the peak summer months.

Hanky - Couldn't have retired under GM before the spinoff. GM requires that you have 30 years to reitre. Look who conveniently leaves out the FACTS!

Vindy "YAK" - Sorry you have experienced a similar situation. Except in your case EVERYONE suffered, not just one single group. Guess some people like you "give up" more easily.

According to sources, manufacturing is being halted due to struts making road noise in low speed-conditions. Does this mean another 100% recall of CURSES for UNETHICAL GM?

Your a liar. Early buyouts were a mainstay of gm and delphi. You most certainly could have taken a early buyout, it didnt matter if you were management or union. You are a liar trying to perpetuate falsehoods. Believe it or not, sometimes the buyout for management was better than ones offered to hourly workers. This person fandflee is lower than i even gave them credit for. OUT AND OUT LIES! Still havent read this person blaming the people actually responsible for his situation at delphi. Sounds like martini lunch hour has evolved into an all-day drunk-fest. How else could you expect others to believe out-right lies?

We'll leave the tallying to the GM bean-counters....They keep track of the numbers, like when they figured out they could afford top up all other retiree groups but not one to exit bankruptcy. And for sure they keep track of the declining sales, huh...

Hanky, Hanky - Those are strong words coming from a fella who doesn't know what he's talkin' about. Buyouts were NEVER offered to Delphi Salaried employees. You were there, Hanky? I don't think so, fella.

Rocky - As you know, or maybe you don't, this is not a salary/union issue. It is an issue of right and wrong. The shoe could end up on the other foot. I hope it doesn't happen to you.

Fandflee sure could have taken a buyout. You would think that someone with all that education would have been smart enough to take it. I know alot of hourly people who knew enough to get out under gm contract. Maybe fandflee just isnt as smart as they believe they are, Should have joined the union when you people had the chance. I am sure now your going to tell us all how salaried employees at delphi didnt have the chance to join the union. Newsflash, that would be a lie also.

Fair and Equal has every right to be mad at GM for how they shafted the Delphi salaried workers. I know that the current GM workers would be equally as mad if they faced the same situation. Then there is the stockholders, many of whom were senior citizens and whose stock holdings were mostly gm stock and whose lives were changed for the worse when gm went bankrupt. Funny, how the gm workers show little remorse for them and the "I got mine" mentality is on display for all to see. It's unflattering and anyone considering a Cruze, should buy a Ford since they didn't file bankruptcy.

yesterday in the detriot free press "Detroit Three gain market share in 2011"

I guess Americans are starting to buy American. Thanks F&E, GM will be the #1 auto manufacturer in the WORLD!

FYI, the struts are made in the USA and the issue will be corrected. Great job Lordstown, the workers caught the problem before bad parts got to the customers.

America works when Americans do!!

@tho But it was ok for the banks who don't produce anything and helped put us in this situation should have got bailed out @f&e it was you who made the descion to work a salary position, so quit trying to blame everyone else!!!!

F&E = superman

lol, nice try

And what union was at Delphi, Hanky? I don't remember seeing the signature cards. Oh, there WEREN"T any. Funny how someone who wasn't even there, and certainly wasn't Salaried is soooo smart. People see right through you, Hank. How was your conversation with Graham that you were going to have on our behalf? Remember, the one where you said he hadn't been asked? And you were gonna talk to him today? Or did you forget?

We do care about folks loosing their benefits, BUT the more crying and wishing of ill will on the thousands that need GM to live, the less we care. I know two wrongs do not make a right but DAMN F&E, take it to court.

O ya, you lost that one too..............

Faith - You said the struts are made in America. Are you trying to say that's why there's a problem with them, or what? The Cruze is already 55% FOREIGN. Please don't try to say that GM should source them outside the country too.

Contrary to popular belief, unions are approached by the workers to join. They don't just show up with cards.

FYI, GM does employ unionized salaried workers .

Nice try fandflee. For someone who talks about ethics, you sure dont have any. Salaried employees at delphi had the chance to join the union back in the day, they also had many opportunities to buyout. Of course your not going to admit either issue, it would just make you look even more dumb. Just point out in any of my comments where i said i was going to talk to jim grahm. You cant. So take your lies and find some other management jerk to play pretend with.

Faith - It is in US District Court in Detroit, at one tremendous cost to the retirees. Wanna support the legal fund? So far, the UAW hasn't shown any support to correct this injustice. Graham evne said he would help, then did nothing. I know it's not what he's paid to do, but come on. Talk to Graham. Hanchanaski apparently didn't take up the request, even when asked. This is quite simple. You don't want GM to be badmouthed? Then openly support our cause, which you just said is just. Otherwise, don't complain when GM receives our wrath. Our beef is NOT with the union(s). It IS with GM!

Oh, so that's it Hank. You agree that what was done to us was wrong. I asked YOU to talk to Graham, and then YOU ignore the request? I see how you operate now. You just want us to quit complaining about UNETHICAL GM, while YOU sit idly by? Ain't gonna happen. You got two choices, join the fight against what's wrong, or listen to the truth being spoken about UNETHICAL GM. YOUR CHOICE.

Why would the UAW support someone that says dont buy their products. Don't you get it F&E, the more you badmouth the bread and butter of this valley, the less credit you have. At first, ok, we get it. But now you sound stupid.

Seems to me that it's in your interest to end the unethical treatment of the retirees. GM is already costing this Valley $161 MILLION per year due to the losses GM caused through discrimination. Buyers see GM's lack of ethics. Self preservation should make the UAW want to keep GM from destroying their own image, and ultimately themselves. Our goals might not be the same, but they can compliment themselves. What does the UAW have in mind in the way of support? Up until now, it's been silence. Graham (or his replacement) knows who he can call....

just hope they stay open, can't afford to have any other business close.

GM's CHOICE....

F and E
if i'm wrong tell me delphi and gm became 2 separate companies right? wich at that point means you no longer work for gm right? you work for delphi so explain to us all how gm owes you a pension and benefits. so now you are asking for anybodies help to get gm to take care of you when you didnt even work for gm

i think f and e is stan under a hider account

Save your money while you make it GM people...

I personally seen what happend to the GM plant shutting down in Wisconsin.

For years , my friends would buy new houses, cars, motorcycles all kinds of toys with loans because they really thought they where good for life.

I was able to buy several TOYS , cheap just so they could just make house payments.

If you are able, buy everything with cash, never a loan.

Anyway good luck to all
and

GO PACK !!!!!!!! WOO HOOO

fairand got yours
If you don't want GM badmouthed, then have the UAW stand up and support the effort to end the discrimination against the one worker group
This is a lie and you know it you where given a chance to join the UAW and you turn them down.
Hope you and yours have a Marry Christmas .

Free - As you know, this issue of right and wrong is exactly that. It is not about whether or not anyone joined a union. Although you do have a point. Given the unethical choices that GM made, joining a union would have been a good alternative, rather than actually expecting GM to live up to its OBLIGATIONS. Don't support GM with your patronage, folks, until they DO THE ETHICAL THING!

Faith - Wanna support the legal fund? So far, the UAW hasn't shown any support to correct this injustice. Graham even said he would help, then did nothing. I know it's not what he's paid to do, but come on. Talk to Graham. Hanchanaski apparently didn't take up the request, even when asked. This is quite simple. You don't want GM to be badmouthed? Then openly support our cause, which you just said is just. Otherwise, don't complain when GM receives our wrath. Our beef is NOT with the union(s). It IS with GM!

Since UNETHICAL GM won't fess up, let there be no doubt. It is not a parts shortage. It is yet another quality problem, According to GMauthority.com, "manufacturing is being halted due to the struts making road noise in low speed-conditions."

A strut problem below 35 degrees was known about for a year now...
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f1...

At that time, GM's "fix" was a blob of lubricant. Guess slappin' on some lube didn't "fix" it?

fairandequal werent you salaried? so why would the union help you

For two reasons. Most importantly, because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Secondly, buyers see GM's lack of ethics. Self preservation should make the UAW want to keep GM from destroying their own image, and ultimately themselves.

Why would the UAW support someone that says dont buy their products. Don't you get it F&E, the more you badmouth the bread and butter of this valley, the less credit you have. At first, ok, we get it. But now you sound stupid.

F and E what part of you are not part of the uaw dont you get as part of management you fought against the union and didnt pay pay dues now you want the same representation as uaw members who pay there dues as a life long resident of this valley i know several people retired and active, management and hourly from delphi, gm, and the fab plant who dont understand your beef with gm your beef is with delphi they screwed you not gm and not the uaw

For three reasons. Most importantly, because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Secondly, buyers see GM's lack of ethics. Self preservation should make the UAW want to keep GM from destroying their own image, and ultimately themselves. And lastly, if the UAW wants to truly represent the founding values of why unions were formed, meaning standing up for what is right, they would offer their support. After all, it's not like the national UAW membership is exactly growing, now is it? When the UAW throws their weight in supporting what's right, we'll think about ending the bad press that GM certainly deserves. NOT BEFORE. Btw, we aren't saying don't buy UAW products, now are we? We are saying don't buy GM products, until they DO THE RIGHT THING.

89must - You need to read up on the GM/Delphi's PLANNED scheme to shed themselves of their OBLIGATIONS before you speak. Come back after you can speak from an informed point of view.

Isn't the UAW connected to GM?

now i see why people dont argue with you, you twist everything and the uaw does not represent the salaried worker you sound like a typical salaried worker, "we dont want to screw you just the company you work for"

i'm done have a nice day everyone

Bye, bye 89must...read up...

Anyone that takes an OBJECTIVE look at the Delphi salaried employees situation would see that they got shafted by GM and the Federal govt. The Feds decided on the winners and losersin the bailout and it was a complete payback to the UAW for supporting Barack Hussein Obama. Now, from the union prospective, I wouldn't expect them to worry about salaried employees because of the adversarial relationship. All the union cares about is the number of members they have working and paying union dues.Maybe a traditional bankruptcy process would have given all the parties a say. But, these people got screwed, just as the GM bondholders and the stockholders of old GM. The grip that big money has on our political leaders is staggering and nobody is looking out for the general interrests of the little guy.

AMEN, Walter...

The government picking winners and losers isnt anything new. The union supported obama, most salary/management types are taught to vote republican, because they are above the hourly worker. What is unbelievably dumb on fandflees part, is that when he was at delphi, all the gm haters hated him, because he worked at delphi/gm, no other reason. Now this clown is with the haters. He/she is a hypocrite who is mad the crap bomb landed on him, instead of the hourly person. You see, typically when the government picks winners, they dont pick the middel-class person as the winner. If fandflee was an advocate for people from the steel industry (republic steel, copperweld,all the mills in youngstown that shut-down) who had the very same thing happen to them, then he would have some credibility. Bottom line, he/she is a spoiled former delphi engineer, who hung out all day racking up big dollars sitting on his behind all day. Most engineers i have encountered couldnt find their behind with both hands. Martini lunch hour engineers are the reason why supplier issues happen. I have sympathy for people who work for a company (delphi) that files bankruptcy and leaves the workers holding the bag. We need to vote in politicians who will enact legislation that will make it a whole lot harder for ceo's and upper management to act so recklessly. People like fandflee, got what they deserved.

hank,
Maybe you tried your hand at engineering school and couldn't get past calculus. It is the mathematical tool used to weed out those not smart enough to be classified a true engineer. The line engineers are not the cause of the downfall of Packard Electric. They were known to have some of the best electrical/mechanical engineering minds in the world. They devised some amazing devices and systems, as did Delco. Kettering was a brilliant engineer who invented devices that are still in use today, 75 years since their invention. GM upper management forgot what made it such a dominant world power and made bad business decisions on the poor advice of accountants and lawyers.

Bla bla bla, workers get screwed every day. As long as there is greed, workers will need to fight for their rights. This is why unions came about and this is why unions are needed in society.

As for GM, I support the company that is pumping millions into this valley every week. Not just for the 4500 UAW workers but also for those at comp logistics, falcon, flex n gate, car carriers, rail road workers (yes cruzes are shipped by rail) and all the other suppliers, many more throughout the state and country some union and some not.

UAW retirees also took hits but were the group that fared the best because the UAW had language in their contract to protect those workers. Some want to distort the truth because they are always saying what a waste it is to pay union dues. Those dues dollars are the best insurance for your job that money can buy.

Hanky - You are wrong as usual. We don't think that the hourly should not receive their pensions. They, like we, deserve to be treated EQUALLY. Btw, I am a Democrat. And, like I have told YOU before, we did stand up for Copperweld, on the steps of the US Capitol to be exact. Thanks for stating that you believe that what was done is wrong. As far as your jibberish about D vs R, engineers, big bucks, and martinis...well, you're quite the "comedian". It deserves no comment.

Faith - Thanks for reaffirming what we know about unethical Corporations like GM/Delphi, and why unions are needed..."workers get screwed every day. As long as there is greed, workers will need to fight for their rights." Stand up against the wrongs by GM/Delphi, folks.

FairandEqual.....You worked for Delphi when they went bankrupt during the bush administration. Since you have been wronged by Delphi why don't you hire a lawyer and sue them? If you are truly in the right there will be no shortage of lawyers lining up for their cut of the pie. I've asked you several times, "why don't you sue Delphi" and you completely ignore the question every time, just like I'm sure you will this time too. Aren't you just a little embarrassed to be constantly crying on this site the way you do?

Cambridge - Perhaps you haven't read my numerous posts, although I don't think that's the case. GM spun off Delphi to rid itself of its OBLIGATIONS, as has been sated numerous times. Delphi was nothing more than a pawn, using GM top management, to "use" the bankruptcy laws to weasel out of their OBLIGATIONS. Using those laws, the influence of the Federal Government, and YOUR tax dollars, GM CHOSE to top up all other reitrees pensions, but ours. Bankruptcy court prohibited us suing the Coporations since they were "protected" under bankruptcy. But we are suing others, as you also probably know. Point is, the trail goes all the way back to UNETHICAL GM's CHOICES. That is why I stand against their despicable choices. Have your answer now?

@sobckecky....I still have my job, no need to DOWNGRADE to former delphi engineer status. Yeah, your right, delphi was filled with the best and brightest engineers in the world. NOT! Delphi went under because of Know nothing, do nothing martini lunch hour salaried jerks like fandflee, and possibly yourself. Delphi was filled with slaried dopes sucking up huge salaries and benefits, that when they spun-off, delphi on their own, delphi couldnt handle. Why else would a company still doing business with gm go under? Upper management at delphi screwed you people, not obama, not the uaw, other salaried/management screwed you. I hope it sinks in and you clowns start placing blame where it is needed.
@cambride..I would love for your question to be answered also. My guess is that these poeple are too pro management to admit they would essentially have to sue their own kind. Instead they want to blame the union and obama. It tells you exactly where these people are politically (obviously republican). By not learning the lesson at delphi, they are doomed to have it done to them again. Some might categorize this as being gullible/stupid.

F&E.....If you have no legal case against anyone I suggest you move on with your life and stop embarrassing yourself.

hank,
Nope, don't work for Delphi or GM. Just an engineer that can think and I know that GM upper management screwed the people from Packard. F&E is totally correct. My only contact with Packard was visiting a plant to address a structural issue with the building as a contractor. I saw the "piecework" that "assemblers(?)" were doing on automated machines with wire connectors. The worker was collecting bundles of wires, banding them, and placing them in a basket. We knew it was a matter of time until this work would be sent out of the country. Packard Electric was a marvelous company that made GM billions! Delphi is a sham corporation invented by GM to shed jobs so that they could reduce their legacy costs.

Right on again, Walt.

Cambridge - Thanks for the suggestion, but we'll stand on moral grounds against unethical GM, and legal grounds against others, even if they hid behind bankruptcy laws. The "court" of public opinion will force GM to make ethical choices, or drive them out of business...

@sobchek..Why doesnt your buddy fandflee, just say one time what you just did. UPPER MANAGEMENT SCREWED HIM/HER, not uaw or obama? You can say what you want about the hourly worker at packard, they werent the issue, anyone that says otherwise is ignorant, or like yourself and has but a brief experience with packard. Walking through during an open-house for 20 minutes, doesnt give you an exact idea of what took place there on a daily basis.

Hanky - I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Top executive management at GM AND Delphi did screw us. Never denied that. Nor did I EVER say that the UAW screwed us. Obama had a VERY BIG role in deciding who would be topped up, and who wouldn't. GM/Delphi had the moraL OBLIGATION to live up to their COMMITTMENTS, and Obama had both the moral AND legal obligation to do so, also.

In life we all get screwed!!! But to keep the hatred going on will just eat you alive!! We have to move on in our lives and deal with it!!! I will support GM no matter whatever other people feel. Again when you throw out your hatred towards GM and said that you are not going to support them, then you are wishing badness on GM and their employees. So for all you haters, when and if GM folds, I will THANK YOU for my husband and GM other employees for losing their jobs and taking food off the table. This is a never ending debate and in the end, NO ONE IS GOING TO WIN!!!!

Don't blame the victims. Blame the TWO parties that are at fault, UNETHICAL GM & Barrack Obama! They both CHOSE to top up ALL groups except one. If GM fails, it is because of their own poor choice, and their reluctance to change their own poor choice.

WOW! What a MORON!

Yea, you sure are, Hanky...

FairandEqual, you wanted to make a point about your cause, but now u are just showing how much of a heartless fool u are!! Keep on blaming GM and now political parties for what happened with your benefits n it will eat you alive!! You are a callous old man/woman that needs to get a grip on reality n Move On!!!

DAL - So tell me great guru, how are GM & Obama not to blame? You throw meaningless jibberish out there, and NEVER back it up. I have stated why GM & Obama have screwed the retirees on MANY, MANY occasions. Read up. What's your take? Please don't tell me that you just don't like me badmouthing GM, which deep down is the basis of most dissenters on here. Or, don't tell me that you're only concerned with YOUR pension, so don't say naughty things about GM. So, tell me the reasons why those two parties are not at fault.

F and E yes you got screwed, but tell us how a company you no longer work for [GM] owes you anything, you where working for delphi when they filed for bankrupty and they where completely separate from gm at that time please tell us, and i dont want to hear "it's the right thing to do"

F and E since you hate GM so much and want nothing to do with there products why would you even take a dime in benefits from them. and remember you were management nothing was guaranteed or is guaranteed

89must - I've already explained many, many times why GM is on the hook. I'll paste it here again so you don't have to look for the answer. Now study up, son.
GM spun off Delphi to rid itself of its OBLIGATIONS, as has been stated numerous times. Delphi was nothing more than a pawn, using GM top management, to "use" the bankruptcy laws to weasel out of their OBLIGATIONS. Using those laws, the influence of the Federal Government, and YOUR tax dollars, GM CHOSE to top up all other retirees pensions, but ours. Bankruptcy court prohibited us suing the Coporations since they were "protected" under bankruptcy. But we are suing others, as you also probably know. Point is, the trail goes all the way back to UNETHICAL GM's CHOICES. That is why I stand against their despicable choices. You may not choose or want to beleve the facts, that's your choice, but don't waste my time again explaining it to you.

89must - Your 2nd comment doesn't even deserve comment. BOYCOTT GM, folks. They don't deserve your patronage until they reverse their poor choice to discriminate.

Yet you'll ignore the $161 MILLION that GM is costing the Valley through their choice to discriminate against your neighbors? Now there's support for the Valley...wow.

openminded, I love my Cruze. my neighbor works there and there are no more houses for sale on my street ever since lordstown went 3 shifts.
That $161 M is like one pay day in taxes. Prob better to get that $ in the local economy every week that to cry about not getting it one time.

Nice to see some comments from people with some sense!

The $161 million is each year and every year...

Sobchak and F&E are about the only people who make sense in this argument. GM shafted F&E and the Delphi salaried workers of that there is no doubt. GM got preferential bankruptcy treatment that shafted tons of people also, stock holders and bond holders. Those who came out smelling like roses are all happy and hate those who want to paint the true picture. I get it. Anyone who buys a GM car is either just not much of a thinker or has connections to GM.

superman=fande
fande=moron

GM spun off Delphi because The management of Delphi wanted it to do so, so they could build things for other companyies and they did not trust Delphi if they were part of GM . Fair and got his . Used to walk around and brag that he did not work for GM / we got rid of that load around our necks . Now he wants to go back 9/10 years and said GM is at fault , GM owes us , the UAW/ IUE owes us .
It is pople like him that made the decisions that brought down Delphi . Not the workers , not GM ,not anybody but people like fair . And because of his BAD decisions he is full of hate and blame. He is striking out at those( the unions/GM/ Obama) who did try to help him and he turned them down .It is best just to feel sorry for him and let him rant on in his blind hate

Wow Hank! I hope those equal signs aren't the extent of your math skills...

Nice same old incorrect argument, Free...

The only lies are the ones in your hate filled mine

FREE i agree 100%

No, Free. You haven't been able to dispute a single fact from me. You may think otherwise. That's your choice. But just as GM & Obama are wrong with their discrimination, so too are you wrong with your facts. You should just admit it, Free. The ONLY reason you're mad is because I'm badmouthing GM's unethical choices, and you wrongly interpret that to mean I'm badmouthing the union hourly, and that they might be hurt if GM suffers. Your selfish viewpoints couldn't be further from the truth.

In fact, if we refrained from badmouthing GM, and only fought our fight in Court, we wouldn't hear so much as a peep coming from your mouth. Who are you trying to kid?

F and E your no one has disputed a single fact with because you refuse to listen to a single fact anyone has all you say is read up get the facts what happened to me was unethical and it was, but it was all done legally in the eye of the courts
here is one fact for you when gm and delphi spun off from each other you where no longer an employee of gm you where an employee of delphi wich means gm has no obligation to you or any other salaried employee

The real test is if the shoe was on the other foot and it was the Delphi salaried who got theirs and the GM union workers got shafted, how would these arguments change? I think it's pretty obvious the pro GM side is only people who got made whole. I doubt the stock and bond holders feel they got a fair (and equal) shake.

Speaking of facts, they are simple.

Stockholders got the shaft. Bond holders got the shaft. The UAW got to keep their jobs only because the Obama admin needed their votes and contributions so a "special" bankruptcy was constructed just for them. It was sold to the electorate as preventing a depression that is suspect at best. Delphi salaried were shafted.

GM got rid of its subsidiaries in order to cut costs, mostly labor costs.

Buy Ford.

89must - Thank you!! So, you now say, for the first time, that what was done to the Delphi Salaried was "unethical and it was, but it was all done legally in the eye of the courts." THANK YOU! I have not disputed that. In fact have said that "GM/Delphi used the bankruptcy laws to weasel out of their OBLIGATIONS. Using those laws, the influence of the Federal Government, and YOUR tax dollars, GM CHOSE to top up all other retirees pensions, but ours. Bankruptcy court prohibited us suing the Corporations since they were "protected" under bankruptcy. But we are suing others, as you also probably know. Point is, the trail goes all the way back to UNETHICAL GM's CHOICES. That is why I stand against their despicable choices." That IS a quote of what I said. GM/Delphi had NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to the Delphi hourly either, since GM & Delphi were both in bankruptcy court. GM & the US Treasury Dept (aka Obama) CHOSE to top up the Delphi hourly pensions (rightfully so), but did not have to under bankruptcy. They CHOSE TO! They felt that the unions' political repercussions, if not topped up, would have devastated the plan to exit bankruptcy. Obama used taxpayer dollars to discriminate and pay one worker group their earned pensions, but not another group of TAXPAYING AMERICANS. Blatant discrimination, AND legally against every Americans Constitutional right for EQUAL treatment under the law. Now, is there any incorrect fact in there, any other point that you don't agree with, or is there anything you see that shouldn't warrant correction by GM/Delphi or Obama?

UAW had a LEGAL BINDING CONTRACT. Many of the UAW GM members also lost their a$$ in stocks. Everyone looses out when a company goes bankrupt. How much and who is up to a court of law, not the President of the United States of America.

One other FACT for ya. GM or Obama did not even have to continue the pensions of the UAW in bankruptcy court and the auto bailout. They CHOSE TO, and RIGHTFULLY SO. The UAW deserve their pensions. So do the Delphi IUE/CWA. And SO DO WE, the Delphi Salaried retirees.

Faith - UAW contract is NOT binding in bankruptcy court. GM submitted to the Court an exit plan that included the UAW's contract (ethically so), and the Court (like you say) approved the plan. Howver, to fund that contract required the Federal Government to FUND IT. And President Obama CHOSE to use yours & my tax dollars to fund the unions' (UAW & IUE/CWA) pensions, but not ours. Do you see anything unethical or illegal about that? Ever hear of the thing they call the CONSTITUTION? Or the phrase "Equal protection under the law"? Any other questions????

F and E
i said you were screwed in an earlier post
but it does not change the fact that you worked for delphi its own company since 1999 not gm

89must - Ok, so you admit we were "screwed", to use your words. I don't know how you personally feel about GM's plan to spin off Delphi to shed themselves of their obligations, but it's crystal clear to the retirees, and numerous Congressmen I might add, that GM "USED" the bankruptcy laws to accomplish it. In the eyes of us retirees AND the Congressmen, it is an unehtical use of such laws to cast aside retirees. Legal? Maybe, but ETHICAL? NO! I presume by your comment that you feel that GM had no legal obligation to Delphi employees? So, since the hourly IUE/CWA members worked for Delphi, you are saying that GM had no legal responsibility to them either? Here's where the plot thickens. GM agreed in bankruptcy court to top up those DELPHI HOURLY retirees (thankfully), and OBAMA used taxpayer funds to allow GM to pay those pensions Again, thankfully). GM & Obama did this, not because they were legally bound to do so, but thankfully because it was the ETHICAL thing to do. Yet, at the very same time, GM AND OBAMA decided to not top up the Salaried pensions AND used taxpayer dollars to discriminate. I'll ask you the same question as I asked "Faith", " Do you see anything unethical or illegal about that? Ever hear of the thing they call the CONSTITUTION? Or the phrase equal protection under the law"? Now, is there still some reason you still feel that GM and/or Obama shouldn't make this right?

No, I am not on the board of the DSRA, so my views are not a formal statement of theirs. If you want their views, ask them. The DSRA is legally pursuing OUR interests. That doesn't prevent anyone from expressing their OPINIONS. And opinions are just that, opinions, nothing more.

F&E we have been here before, all contracts are not void in a bankruptcy, the court determines that issue not the President of the USA.

UAW's contract with GM was deemed binding with modifications which the UAW membership had to vote on and approve.

You did not work for GM nor were you a UAW member. So you got the shaft. Get in line, many people came up short. The UAW membership gave concessions to help their retirees, IBEW , pattern makers unions, and salaried workers were not so lucky. IUE unions did get a top up but it is neither full or forever.

Your story is not new to working Americans. This happened to my grandparents. One was a supervisor and one was union. Who made out better when the steel mills went out of business? It was the one that had a LEGAL BINDING CONTRACT!!

unions = insurance for your job. Is that fair?? We can debate the issue forever but I know life ain't fair and that's why I have insurance...

Openminded - LOL. Nice little play on words. It was amusing. You seem quite informed about the DSRA, as am I. So I'm sure there is no need for me to explain to you the story...

Faith - Never said that hte President determines whether contracts are valid in bankruptcy court, and you know it. GM CHOSE to turn in an exit plan to the court that included honoring the UAW contract (as well they morally should). That was there CHOICE, not any binding condition that made them do it. You also know that. Thanks for verifying that the "power" of union membership buys insurance & influence in the political world. And in the case of GM/Delphi, thanks for verifying that you need that insurance when dealing with unethical Corporations. I don't disagree...

Openminded - Thanks for your tremendous concern, particularly coming from a person who says they're not even a Delphi Salaried retiree..

FairandEqual(550 comments)posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago said; "Thanks for verifying that the "power" of union membership buys insurance & influence in the political world."

The political world is all around you. It was in high school, on the sports team, at work, and just about everyplace in life. In politics people pick sides. I support you and you support me.

Union membership does not "buy" insurance & influence, it demands it. When my car gets damaged, I have a contract that says what is covered. Same thing with my house. If it burns down of no fault of my own, I demand to be paid to replace it because i have a LEGAL BINDING CONTRACT.

Now if my insurance company goes bankrupt, a judge will determine what that company owes me based on my LEGAL BINDING CONTRACT.

In nearly all bankrutpcies, contracts are null and void. It's why companies choose bankruptcy bcause they don't have the financial where with all to pay their obligations. Somehow, the UAW came out nearly unscathed which is curious at the very least and convenient if you're Obama trying to win key states where the UAW has large numbers. They picked winners and losers and that's not what bankruptcy is supposed to be used for.

Your "oh well attitude" will allow the same thing to happen, time and time and time again...

You have a point in accepting the things you can't control...LOL

superman bankruptcy is just that to determine who gets what and in every bankruptcy someone's gonna lose thats how the game is played

LOL, 89must. Are you a UAW member?

F and E
you where 10 years removed from working for gm when they filed for bankruptcy they do not owe you anything unless you had a contract with them your beef is with delphi and remember i think you and the rest of the salaried employees got screwed but just because you dont like what happened doesnt mean you can go back 10 years to a former employer and tell them they have to give you your retirement and benefits because youre current employer wont

why would that matter?

openminded
i agree too

Thanks, fellas

Have a blessed Christmas season!

fun like going to the dentist.

F$BS ,do you know of anybody who would support you when you call them ,thugs ,stupid,uneducated, lazy ,stoogies ,etc. You give up a chance to join a Union but you said ,I don't need no stinking Union ,yet you want their help. You help cut Union jobs ,don't see you supporting any of them to get what they deserve but you want their support. Look at all the people you screwed. You said you supported the people at Copperweld,That was only the people in management you tried to help ,not Union people. I'm who you call X-nip since the censors will block out my screen name in the Trib

Bottom line, fandflee is owed nothing. As another poster pointed out, bankruptcy is a tool used by companies to screw former employees. So lets vote in politicians who will make it a whole lot more difficult for companies to accomplish this terrible act of destroying peoples lives. The tiny shred of respect i had for fandflee dissolved when this person said he/she is posting his opinion and not FACTS. This is management/salaried employee in a nutshell. Management will screw one another 1000 times quicker than a union worker will screw another union worker. These people cant even be trusted to post FACT. Thats why i tell fandflee to write gwb, he was leader of this country while delphi was being fleeced. I will guarantee alot of money went from upper management at delphi , to campaign contributions for republican politicians. Dont ask Obama, or the uaw for help, ask the politicians you people (management) supported (republicans).

All this talk has put me in the mood to buy a new GM vehicle. I can do that because after i was laid off from my job, instead of spending my time blaming my former employer for my situation, I simply went out and got an even better job. Now I can afford a brand new Chevy! Bitterness is so unhealthy and inefficient ...

@shortee..AMEN!

There seems to be a lot of hostility and bitterness in this posting session.

You can't spend your life being upset about things you have no control over.

@dave.. I agree. The core issue here seems to be, at least for some, is people who work for gm versus those who dont. If you work at gm, you are middle-class, no matter what fox news tells you. Not one hourly worker at gm is creating generational wealth to pass on for generations. Yet, some of our more naive commenter's, want to buy into this premise. Greed, on the corporate level is destroying our country, not unions, not social security, not medicare, not ui benefits, not wellfare. There is plenty of money to accomplish all these programs. The problem is, the money is being extracted by those at the top of the food-chain (the wealthy). This is easily accomplished by the wealhty because they are allowed to purchase politicians. Campaign finance reform is our only way out.

Shortee15, you nailed buddy. Another item is, a lot of people tried working at GM and couldn't handle it and quit. Now all they do is blame GM out of bitterness and jealousy.