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Under SB 5, Ohio will be first state required to base teacher pay on performance



Published: Sun, April 24, 2011 @ 5:45 p.m.

Associated Press

COLUMBUS

Ohio’s new law to limit collective bargaining for public workers could make it the first state with a mandatory system to pay teachers based on their performance.

The measure passed by the Republican-led Legislature and signed by GOP Gov. John Kasich bans strikes by public workers and replaces automatic pay increases with merit raises or performance pay. That means it eliminates salary schedules and step increases of 110,000 full-time public teachers in the state, The Plain Dealer reported Sunday.

Ohio would be the first state in the U.S. to replace automatic raises with a performance-based pay system for teachers statewide, said Kathy Christie, chief of staff for the Denver-based Education Commission of the States, a nonpartisan group that researches education policy.

“That is the type of component that really, really resonates with the public,“ she told the newspaper. ”If you are not pulling your weight, if you are not getting performance, if you are not tenacious and really trying to learn and all those sorts of things you want to see teachers doing, then you don’t move up at all.“


Comments

1stewie(109 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

YES ! It's about time !

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2chaz4224(10 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

this is all about busting the unions nothing else, a teacher will now be blamed when kids don't WANT TO learn. the politicians no longer represent the people unless you suport their campaign. it's a joke, now their talking about destroying social security and medicare, workers put 15% of their income into this fund if the government didn't STEAL the money it would be there these ARE NOT entitlements when you pay your whole working life and expect and deserve 10 years of retirement

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3Tellingthetruth(11 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Teachers should begin receiving merit pay when every other professsion does. What about the students who refuse to take a test, refuse to do their work, refuse to listen, please! This is unfair to teachers. If teachers could keep the kids for their entire 12plus years of education then maybe it would work. You can't change the enviornment in which they come from. How do you motivate a student who sees his/her parent stay up all night, not work put still have money????? Some kids have no motivation from home. Then teachers try their best and the kids don't care. How about changing welfare???? I don't understand why everything is sofocussed on destorying teachers. For every 10 students who succeed you have 5 or so that don't. Let's change the way we assess the students too! Merit pay is not the answer and neither is the annual state tests. Students are being taught to pass a test instead of what is important. How many students know their basic facts???? When you go to the grocery store how many young adults can count back your change, not many! However it is important for your third grader to know how many degress are in an obtuse angle??? Wake up people we need to address our governors and see how they are destroying our children's future. Children today are just robots. It is a shame that kids can't be kids. Years ago students came out of school knowing their basics, not today! Ask yourself how is merit pay really going to help, it's not! Talk about teaching to a test because that is all it is about. As I stated before we need to appreciate our teachers and support them not run them down and out. Educating children should be one of the most respected jobs but until we all come together and support our schools, teachers, communities and children we will continue to leave our children behind.

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4dogkick(1 comment)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

So we have government that admits it is into keeping the dead weight around. Gees there ought to be a law

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5boardmantimmy(5 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

It's not about busting the unions. It is, and always has been, about unions protecting substandard employees. If everyone would be honest with themselves there should be no argument. It occurs both in the public and private sector unions. Believe me, I work in a union shop overrun with incompetence. Both my children, 3 years apart, had the same teacher for a subject and during parent night I heard the exact same lesson plan, goals and speech twice. I've also noticed the teachers who have become creative educators produce better students and people. Like drones most teachers year after year continue to teach the same way. Isn't the definition of stupidity doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result? Reward productivity and eliminate unproductive workers. Where is it written that we owe anybody a job because they show up.

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6Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

I think we should tax or fine or cut off welfare to the parents of kids that do not pass . Lets put the presser on them to make their kids get up and go to school , to study . and pass a test .
Then we can go after the teachers .. But now the kids do not have to show up , study, pass a test , not bring guns to school . And the first time a teacher tries the parents call up the cops or the paper and get a spot on FOX about how terrible the big mean teachers are . . It is not the teacher it is the parents .

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7mrhappy(23 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

I had some really awful teachers in high school and some of them had tenure. Meaning no matter how bad they sucked you couldn't get rid of them or discipline them. Something needs to be done. Unions have gotten out of control in this country. When you get raises even if your job performance is abysmal something needs to change. Unions are just as bad as al-Qaeda terrorist cells.

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8chaz4224(10 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

wait until the unions are gone and you fools work for nothing no overtime pay no safety no healthcare low pay no protection at all and you fools are patting them on the back this is about destroying the unions and democratic party the middle class wages have not increased for us since the 80's with raygun yes i spelled it that way was an idiot because in 85 had a meeting in mexico city telling big business how to outsource and government would help pay for it and bust the unions that way, trickle down does not work no matter what your calling it now.republican plan create wars and programs don't pay for them then cut programs for the middle class and the poor but defense never starve the beast

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9Benjii(26 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Everybody thinks they know what the criteria for grading teacher perfomance will be. We don't. This hyteria is way out of control. Teachers will not be judged by poor students, but poor teacher performance. Let's face it. Not every teacher is the paragon of educational prowess. These are the ones who should not profit from seniority and just breathing. It is time for public employees to work under the same advancement guidelines that the private sector does. SB 5 is not the end of the world, just the end of a nameless, faceless union protecting the slugs who use the union for their protection. Let's wait and see how this plays out before we all condem SB 5. I think the citizens who have and are paying the tab have some representation in this process. Until now, we have not had anyone looking out for our interest. This is not, nor has it ever been "collecive bargaining". My representative in this process has been bought and paid for by unions and other special interests. Let's see what happens and then we can carry on.

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10chaz4224(10 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

good thing our politicians are not paid for their merit and get their benefits and full pension after what 6 or 8 years of service talk about a union, huh, vote for your compensation sweet deal you people keep pating them on the back

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11sparky22(14 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Maybe SB5 should delve into the private unions as well and eliminate collective bargaining rights and "tenure" pay for teachers belonging to those. I can think of a few that I have come across in my career that should not have had a position as a teacher in the private world. If you're going to judge a person based on performance, be fair and judge them all based on performance, not just because they belong to a public union.

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12USNBOY(76 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

This Merit Pay for teachers will not be based on teacher performance. It will be based on the students scores on BS state exams. The teachers dont teach what children need to know anymore. They ONLY teach what is on the state exam so they look good. The only ones who will suffer is our children. These teachers are a joke. What will happnen to the children who have learning disabilities? THEY WILL BE LEFT BEHIND! because they will make the teacher look bad and not qualify for the bonus.

BTW, I am one of those "bad" parents that stay at home all day and always has money. what you dont know is I was Medically Retired from the military and live off of disability. I CAN NOT WORK. It has nothing to do with not wanting to work (believe me I wish I could work) or being on welfare (which I dont qualify for) I am home everyday to help my kids with their homework, study, support them in everyway I possibly can, and I serve as an example to get good grades. "So they dont end up like me". Dont attempt to call me a "bad parent" because you have no clue what my children and I have gone through. Think twice before you start banging out moronic thoughts on a keyboard!

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13Philo(99 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

It's astonishing that 84% of all costs in Ohio schools, on average, are for salaries and benefits. This is unsustainable! While I believe teachers need to be paid well, there are things that need to be done to fix the budget mess. First, you don't need a Masters degree to teach elementary school, period. Step increases need to be done away with completely. There needs to be a cap on certain jobs just like in the private sector. You don't pay a forklift driver any more because he has five years on the job or 20 years on the job. If the forklift driver wants to make more money he needs to accept or earn a position that pays more money, such as a foreman. In the school world, that teacher who wants to make more money could do so by taking a principals jobs, or an assistant principals job, or by becoming qualified to teach AP Calculus. A 3rd grade elementary school teaching job, for example, should be capped at some certain figure, say $50,000 per year. He or she could reach that maximum amount of pay by earning merit increases and those merit increases would be awarded by her boss, the principal, just like our bosses in the private sector judge our performance.
We also need to get the schools, counties, and cities out of the business of collecting dues for the unions. If each union member had to write a check each month, out of their own checkbook, things would be much different. This would be a great start to getting this country back to financial stability.

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14walter_sobchak(1979 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

While the idea of basing teacher's pay on performance seems to be desirable, it would be difficult to achieve. Psyker99 has it right in post#13. It is impossible to objectively quantify student performance when the teachers are required to attempt to educate all children they receive in public schools. Unfortunately, the unions protect the dead-weight in their memberships at the expense of the students.

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15GeorgeSands(16 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

As long as the state also holds parents and students responsible, I have no problem with it. For example, will the student fail the class as a consequence for not showing yearly growth? Will the parents be held responsible for attendance, tardies, and homework? What will the consequences be?

Finally, as long as I am being paid according to my students' performance , then I will design my own instructional plan and implement it. I will not follow the instructional plan drafted by people who know less than I do.

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16meagain(81 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

This is wrong on soooo many levels. I don't have the time or desire to explain all of the reasons why this is such a horrid idea. Those who know why it's wrong don't need convincing. They understand the ramifications and all that makes this a truly ugly idea. Those who think it's okay and in fact a long time coming won't be swayed, but they really need to take a long hard look at what this really means, and I don't just mean financially.
I do have to wonder at a few things though. So all the articles saying SB5 will allow for workers to negotiate wages - 1/2 truths? Or how exactly does this allow for wage negotiations? Where's the negotiating in merit pay? How exactly does this work? Shouldn't we know exactly how they plan on assessing student perfomance and how that factors into wages BEFORE we make a decision on this bill. The problem is they don't even know. It's just one of those things that seems like a good idea until the logistics of implementing such a plan are seriously considered. Testing is a VERY lucrative venture. Someone will make a fortune on this and the tax payers will be footing the bill. Any savings you think may come from implementing such an idea of merit pay will be consumed in the testing process.
My other big question is if our tax dollars go to fund charter schools will their dollars also be merit based? I doubt it. So consider that if you think this is simply a plan to help save tax payers dollars. It's all part of a much larger plan to destroy public education and allow corporate America to profit from educating our children. Personally this won't save you a dime. It will simply funnel your funds to a different entity. It's just the first steps and everyone follows like lemmings thinking they'll pay less taxes. If people in Columbus and Washington wanted to save you money they would. They don't. The money is just a way to make you go along with a really bad idea. The ultimate goal - destroy public education so their friends can make money through their charter schools. In which case you still will pay, but it will be more than just your money you'll pay with at that point.

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17USNBOY(76 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

@ GeorgeSands, You are not the solution. You are the problem. Keep teaching for the state exam and get angry when the person working in ther grocery store cant count back your change. You are the cause of a false grade on your school district to make your school look good and get your bonus. I was told when I went to school "teachers dont make a lot of $, I'm not here for the money". Obviously people like you ARE there for the money since you think you can basically teach the kids WORD FOR WORD what is on the exam so you sit back and collect your "Merit Pay". I wouldnt let you train my dog.

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18boardmantimmy(5 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Why can't public sector employee's pay be based on the county's or state's revenue. The public sector produces no income whatsoever. They are strictly a financial liability. Start them at a fair wage and tell them upfront their yearly wages will be beased on revenue. Up 10% give them a 10% raise. Down 3% cut their pay by 3%. It is impossible to base pay on projected revenue. Right autoworkers. If they know the policy upfront there will be no complaining. I realize it may be difficult to budget personal households like this, however, expecting me to pay someone more every year when my income goes down is ludacris. this may allow layoffs and cutbacks to be avoided when revenue is down.

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19my2sense(8 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Meagain got it right. Kasich is out to dismantle public education and privatize it for the benefit of corporate America--who won't be accountable like the public school system. Charter schools, for the most part, have been a dismal failure. Think Eagle Heights in Youngstown.
And Philo--think for a minute. Schools are a service provider (education) not a manufacturing business or retailer, so obviously salaries will make up the majority of the budget. Teachers are paid to work with kids--there aren't material or manufacturing costs. Seems that too many people are trying to compare apples and oranges--private sector businesses and public education. You can control the process of making a decent car at Lordstown, but it's a challenge to motivate a kid with a messed-up home life who doesn't give a s**t about anything and try to turn him into a competent student who wants to make something of his life.

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20USNBOY(76 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

A teacher is just like a metal worker.

a metal worker gets paid to shape, form, metal that is just a piece of a larger object.

Teachers get paid to shape and form students into something larger. LIKE SOCIETY!

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21USNBOY(76 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Teachers who teach to the statewide exams are directly responsible for the dumbing-down of the US. They are not teaching our kids the critical tools needed to become productive citizens. They are teaching them what is on a statewide BASIC KNOWLEDGE exam. Its not really like we have to worry about teachers getting this "merit pay" because SB5 will never pass.

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