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Poland schools stall in releasing public records on salaries


Published: Sun, April 17, 2011 @ 12:09 a.m.

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Poland Superintendent Dr. Robert Zorn

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By Karl Henkel

khenkel@vindy.com

POLAND

After Poland approved a 6.9-mill emergency operating levy in 2003, Poland Superintendent Robert Zorn appeared meticulous about the district’s finances.

In an effort to show the district’s fiscal responsibility, he noted every layoff and cut in a seven-page outline. He shared that outline with The Vindicator in February, complete with spending- rate comparisons with other Mahoning Valley school districts and possible cutbacks in Poland should the 4.9-mill levy fail in May.

But this month when it came to releasing salary figures for every district employee, Zorn and the district have appeared unwilling to cooperate.

The Vindicator submitted a seven-item public record request to Poland Treasurer Donald Stanovcak after the Feb. 28 school board meeting as part of the new Government Watch initiative on vindy.com.

Other districts presented with the identical records requests produced documents in a timely manner. But in a response dated March 10, Stanovcak said documents containing the “five-year total compensation history of every employee — including but not limited to the annual salary amount” were “non-existent.”

This week The Vindicator pressed the district for salary figures for all its employees.

“Sorry,” Zorn told an editor Wednesday, “it’s not my department or I’d give it to you.”

Stanovcak, whose department should have the information, didn’t say he didn’t have the numbers, but that he didn’t have them in the requested format.

“We do not have that information in that format,” he told an editor. “We are not required to create a document to match your request.”

David Marburger, an Ohio attorney specializing in public records who also represents The Vindicator, said public offices will often find loopholes to avoid providing information.

He said the newspaper’s request was imprecisely worded, allowing the district an “out,” a topic he covers in his upcoming book “Access with Attitude.”

Still, Poland officials should have provided the information, he said.

“It’s obvious what you wanted. It’s obvious they had it,” he said. “And it’s obviously a disservice to the public.”

According to the Ohio Public Records Act, requests for public records should be “interpreted liberally in favor of disclosure ... where the decision whether to disclose a record is a close call, a public office should disclose it.”

“If a record does not clearly fit within an exemption, the public office must disclose the record.”

When asked again for all Poland schools’ employees salaries, the district then provided The Vindicator with current teaching staff salaries faxed from pages of a budget book.

After another request, administrator salaries were hand-written on a piece of paper and faxed. After a third request, the superintendent’s salary was faxed as well.

Those documents can be found in PDF format on the Government Watch site.


Comments

1spinman(70 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Its not his department. Did not know the school district now has departments. Pass the buck.

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2dreamcatcher52(140 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

When will you be adding Canfield to your Government Watch page?

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3MichaelG93(79 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Here is a site that will pull EVERY TEACHERS SALARY IN OHIO!!!

www.buckeyeinstitute.org.

Love the site!

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42muchtax(342 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Of course he won't do his job and give you the public record of teachers salary. These teachers make huge money for 183 days work 55.50 an hour for the 1st grade teacher I looked at with 50,000 a year pension after only 30 yrs. Retire at 55 and collect 50K for the next 30-40 yrs. Over a million dollars at taxpayer expense. Everyone should be put in social security. Goto www.buckeyeinstitute.org and look for youself. Ohio State Patrol retires at 20yrs, this is the best kept secret.

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5sue(172 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Just vote NO!

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6apollo(1227 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Zorn doesn't want you to see how much his family member makes as nurse.

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7stewie(109 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Wow! $14,000 a year for a middle school monitor? $73,000 a year for an elementary teacher? They have as many advisers as teachers on the payroll ! Oh yeah, I'm gonna vote to pay you more tax money. NOT !!

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8candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

The per capita income of a Poland resident is under $24k.

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9republicanRick(1167 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

$ 74,000 for a school nurse? For 180 days work? My calculations show that would work out to $ 105,000 for a full time position, plus hospitalization costs, plus a pension? For working from 8am to 3 pm? Nice work if you can get it.

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10spinman(70 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Oh guess who the school nurse is !!!

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11repeaters(206 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Poland: Dividing $24,000,000.00 by $8,300.00 = 2892 students?

Canfield: Dividing $26,000,000.00 by $8,300.00 = 3133 students?

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12redeye1(4558 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Everyone should show the poland schools how smart the voters in Poland really are. BY voting NO. Its tiem for them to take cuts like everyone else.

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13TheLostPatrol(756 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Ahh...any Local School District in the Area and Youngstown State University, generation upon generation, and now going into its third generation of Nepotism; the Mahoning Valley at its finest.

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14Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

HEY we are white and rich we do not not need to tell you low life blacks what we do . Get over it The GOP gov. is in power . UP with the KKK/ TEA

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15az99rm(1 comment)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I wouldnt have my children go to school anywhere else. I left my hometown of Boardman because of the breakdown of the township living conditions.Both of my children excelled in our school system because of the high quality of our schools and personnel. Obviously the people who write comments with these harsh attitudes did not. This is why I will always vote for my schools!

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16ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Free are you off your Meds? It appears you are incoherent and have stepped over the edge. Seek professional help, I hope I am not too late!!

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17aresident(6 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I have sat idle "watching" the boards smash teachers. Get off the teachers. The true governement waste are the political "favor" jobs (Marsico/Gains) given to buddies. Be angry with that - not those responsible for the future of our children. I have a question - "Is education a RIGHT or a PRIVILEGE?" My opinion is that the education that our children receives is a 'privilege.' Our children should be honored to go to school. But parents use it as a babysitting service. But, the STATE made schools a 'right' but refuse to help the locals pay for it. Unfortunately, we demand MORE services for our children but don't want to pay for them. How does Poland/Canfield/Boardman graduate 100% of their kids and receive 20% state aid, but Y-town only graduates 50% and receives apprx. 90% state aid. Doesn't match up.

Does your job REQUIRE you to have a Masters Degree? Why bang on the teachers for compensation when the State REQUIRES them to go to school for the rest of their life. Last time I checked, a Master's Degree will cost about $15,000. The fringe benefits of being a teacher is definitly out of line and needs corrected. Stop being jealous because their paycheck is better than yours. They chose this profession. I coach basketball 1 day a week for 1 hour. God Bless the teachers. How about you try teaching for a week and tell me if they earn their paycheck. How about you deal with the parent of a child who hit another child, was kept in for recess and the parent wants to know why their child was kept in. "Timmy is an angel."

As for the "signs" they are leftovers from PAST elections and they have a committee for that purpose. No school monies are used for election - it is state law. As for the "stadium" grant monies were used. How about attending a "town hall" meeting to get your facts straight instead of spewing incorrectness.

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18uphillbattle(14 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Jeez. Do you have all of your facts correct this time, Vindicator? I know that several times recently this has not been the case. People complain about the time that teachers have off but their summers are spent taking classes which are required the state for masters degrees and conitinuing education. As far as the salaries go, who doesn't recieve pay raises? The teacher making $70,000 is probably a veteran teacher that attained that rate by getting a masters degree and then STILL taking classes to keep up with the endless requirements. Poland appears in the news over and over again for academic excellence and all of this is achieved in the #9 tax slot for schools county wide. Compare numbers and see what you are getting for your money, you are hurting your kids by voting against schools.

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19uphillbattle(14 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

PS- the average nurses salary in the private sector after 20 years is $73,000. If you think school nurses get the summer off think again, they, like teachers are busy taking classes to keep up credentials.

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20uphillbattle(14 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

And guess what else? the average salary for a person with a bachelors degree after 20 years is $77,000. More than 20 year veterans of teaching and nursing make, let me tell you. The average starting salary for a bachelors degree is $39,000 to $43,000. WELL above what a beginning year teacher makes. Find out the facts and vote them!!

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21poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Another fine job by the Vindicator. As previously pointed out, salaries are available from buckeyeinstitute.org. Surely the Vindicator reporting staff can add up the the past 5 years. I would hope that the school administration is busy trying to figure out how they are going to avoid additional school cuts given the current funding issues. It is hardly the school district's fault that the state is passing the buck. And it is certainly not the teacher's.

If Poland was trying to hide something, why would they have so many town hall meetings and answer every question that was asked? I am guessing that those opposed to the levy (who actually live in Poland rather than just commenting on every levy article) did not attend a single meeting. Or have picked up the phone and called Dr Zorn to ask him questions directly. Nope, the better plan would be to vote no and punish all 2300 kids that attend school there.

Poland schools are a gem. We have a tremendous asset in our community and need to do everything we can to keep them that way. Do your own research and support your schools!

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22poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Realtruth: the kids may not have cared if they sat on the ground or bleachers but the football fans do. Amazing how 5000+ attend those games and no one complains about the beautfiful new stadium. And the State of Ohio cared about the lack of restrooms and the lack of handicapped access.

The stadium (along with several other big projects) were paid with energy savings from the new HVAC systems. But you would know this if you looked at Dr Zorn's presentation on the poland schools website or attended a town hall meeting....

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23Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Get off our backs, who do you think you are to asking what we get paid . We are the rich and beautiful get over it it low life's

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24uphillbattle(14 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

realtruth- Poland schools ARE excelllent and not because they have been rated that way by other teachers. Poland students regularly do better on tests like the ACT, SAT, and the OGT than other schools. They have been designated EXCELLENT WITH DISTINCTION by the State of Ohio, and recently earned the title Blue Ribbon School- no small beans. How is this accomplished? Excellent students, excellent teachers, and an excellent administration all working together. All these facts are public knowledge- check them out! As a parent I will always vote for school levies, even though my kids have graduated.

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25Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

But uphill the GOV. is only going to let you pay your teachers 14,000 a year ???

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26jenjo(1 comment)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Stop saying that teachers only work 180 days. Yes, that is how many days we are in the classroom but what about all the work we do outside of the classroom to prepare for the day and school year? We are spending MORE TIME with YOUR children then you are. I love my job and wouldn't trade it for anything. But clearly you do no value your childrens education what kind of message are you sending to them? You need to think about them and what is best for their future.

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27poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

realtruth: The loan for the stadium and other infastructure improvements is SECURED by the enegy savings. Whether you believe that there are 2m in energy savings is not really relevant, because the savings have been audited and certified for the bank yearly.

Poland is never going to get state money for infastructure improvements like some of the surrounding districts due to the way the state calculates funding. At some point, they have to choose to spend money on building improvements and the stadium is one of our buildings.

Also of note is that the plan to remodel the stadium was put in place long before the economy took dive in 2008. They took advantage of freed up money to invest in the properties. I feel fairly certain that if the district had a crystal ball and could have forseen millions in state funding cuts over the next few years, they would have planned differently.

It saddens me that my children's educational future is in the hands of voters with no real stake in the game. You should be proud of your school system and want to support it. Believe it or not, great schools play a large role in why Poland is such a safe and clean place to live and why the home values have remained more stable than other areas.

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28poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

The loan payment is $262,000 per year.

A mill in Poland raises around $383,000.

The renewal levy is 3.6 mills raising $1,378,800 per year in funding that the residents have been paying since 2003.

The emergency levy is for 4.9 mills to raise $1,876,700 per year to replace funding that the state has steadily cut over the last few years. It does not include the new cuts from the Kacich budget.

The district has already cut over $5,000,000 in expenses since 2003 and just cut much more with the elimination of high school busing and elementary art, gym and music teachers. The teachers agreed to a 2yr wage freeze and a 2yr step freeze.

But your right, if they were not making the $262,000 annual loan payment then surely there would no need for levies.

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29uphillbattle(14 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I don't know how anyone can think they are throwing money at the Poland schools. Look at the figures. Out of 14 county schools poland ranks 9th for the amount it pulls in in taxes. Get your facts straight!! And for that ninth place tax rate your kids are getting a #1 education!

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30republicanRick(1167 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

...
The stadium upgrade was financed by savings to energy costs, as verified by the lending bank.
When the stadium was opened, the school had a loan of 13 years to pay it off.
The effective taxable millage rate on the loan is .81 mils.
Thus, the cost to a homeowner of a $ 100,000 home is $ 24.00, per year, for 13 years.
Practices for all sports, youth sports, band, and community use are held on the field. The $ 600,000 turf fund was ALL PRIVATELY raised. The artificial track surface fund was ALL PRIVATELY raised. There are very generous people in Poland who see the necessity and improvement to its way of life that is important to a community.
The Poland Administration gets it -- they rank 9th in spending but graduate 100% of the students with 94% going on to college.
The teachers get it -- some are being laid off with the rest getting no raises for at least 2 years with hospitalization co-pays going up.

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31poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

resident: Sounds like you have a personal vendetta with someone at the high school. Seems like a really good reason to punish all of the kids in Poland schools.

Your high school children have already reaped the rewards of the excellent school system. Those of us with elementary and younger children will be the ones to pay the price for your lack of support.

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32uphillbattle(14 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

The negative things about the high school teachers simply are not true. They work hard all day long and as far as the previous comment about natural intelligence, c'mon. Do you really think people in Poland are smarter than elsewhere? They have better teachers, parents and opportunities and THAT is why they score higher on tests.

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33spinman(70 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Republican Rick...you need to get your facts straight. First of all, the energy savngs is helping to pay for the stadium. The best savings in energy per year is more like 125k which is very good, it is helping to pay for the stadium, but by no means is it paying for the stadium in its entirety. At best case maybe half of the annual note. As far as the track resurfacing, 12k was taken from the athletic fund this past year to pay for the scheduled resurfacing. Ask the athletic director he can confirm this. Hospitalization co pays are not going up. The teachers copay is remaining at 5% for least the next two years. Please get your facts straight !!!!!!

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34poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

spinman: I think that YOU should get your facts straight.

All district staff took a 2yr wage freeze. You apparantly are not willing to reach into your pocketbook and pay a few hundred dollars more a year to support your schools, but you think they should take a wage freeze AND pay more for their insurance? But regardless, in 2013 every state employee will be paying 15% of their health insurance premium unless SB5 is overturned.

As far as the stadium, you can estimate the savings to be whatever you want, but Farmer's Bank has accepted the documentation submitted to the Ohio State Auditor showing the following savings (calculated from base year):
2007: $485,921
2008: $448,247
2009: $385,853
2010: $410,000 (estimated)

As far as the track resurfacing, the Board minutes from 2/7/11 indicate that funds have been set aside from track meets over past years in anticipation of the resurfacing and that the Turf Club will be funding the balance. It is called "planning". If they don't resurface the track soon, they will have to replace it at a much greater cost.

Do you have a plan to save $3,000,000 per year so that no levies are needed?

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35poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

resident: if you are upset with a teacher(s) at the high school, then I assume you have discussed your concerns with Dr Zorn and the School Board, correct?

My children are not at the high school yet, but I find it hard to believe that the education could be that bad when Poland grads receive more scholarship money than most other districts and 97% of the grads go on to college.

Why punish all 2,300 kids that attend Poland schools? What exactly do you think will be accomplished by voting no for the levy? If the district can't afford to pay teachers, then I don't think you have to worry about getting or keeping the good ones.

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36republicanRick(1167 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Sorry spin man, but your facts are wrong, you are listening to rumors.
Energy savings paid for the stadium.
Track resurfacing contained ZERO tax dollars.
You are free to vote as you wish, but base your vote on the facts.

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37spinman(70 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Think of what you are saying about energy savings. Do you really think you can save a 1/2 a million a year in energy savings. Lets see if the company Gardner Trane will put that in writing. The reality is that they will not. If we are saving that much maybe we should build two stadiums....

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38poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

spinman: I am not sure how many ways you can be told that the energy savings ARE in writing. Every year. Why not take a few minutes and call the school administration and request a copy.

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39poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

resident: so you a saying that every teacher in the high school curses constantly at the children all day long? And that they all sneak away at lunch and go to coffee shops? And that they all play on their computers all day?

I just want to clarify that you are not airing personal issues, but factual statements that apply to the whole high school.

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40poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

resident: so you have resorted to personal attacks to defend your position?

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41poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

resident: Again, you clearly have a personal issue with a teacher at the high school. I am sorry about that, but still cannot see why the whole school district should have to pay the price.

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42uphillbattle(14 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I am glad to see that resident is in the minority here. I have had nothing but good experiences with the high school. The teachers are excellent and also expect excellence from the students. Go Bulldogs!

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43aresident(6 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

As for teachers cursing - I am sure that the student did not entice the teacher. Have you heard the mouths on kids today? As for a faculty member sipping coffee in a coffee shop - how dare they take a day off for a doctor's appointment (their own, a parent, a spouse, etc). Have you never taken a day off before and stopped somewhere for a cup of coffee or a bite to eat? It is pure blasphamy! The copay's might stay the same, but health insurance costs WILL go up - it is what the Demcrats voted for when they passed Healthcare for everybody. The insurance companies will still make their profits. How? by raising everybody's premimums.

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44aresident(6 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

EXACTLY THE POINT!!!!!!!! Talk to a kid today, cursing is a part of their normal everyday language. Are teachers not allowed to leave the building for a lunch break? have you ever been a few minutes late getting back to work after a "coffee break" The Lord said - "he without sin may cast the first stone." If you are the model employee and have not EVER been late, EVER taken a day off, EVER cursed when talking to another employee/client then God Bless you. But "resident" a wise man once said "Arguing over the Internet is like the Special Olympics - nobody wins and you are still _________" well, you can fill in the blank. Stop arguing over the Internet, go to Zorn, The Vindicator, attend a town hall meeting, attend a board meeting and air your grieveances.

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45polandrocks(1 comment)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

My two children who are now in their 20's went through Poland schools. They had the absolutely best education this area offers. From Kindergarten to 12th grade,the teachers in Poland are not only knowledgeable and experienced in their area of expertise, but they are also caring and professional when it comes to the students emotional needs and will take the time to assist those students before, during and after school. Those teachers definitely take their responsibilities seriously.
By the way, teachers are permitted to leave the building for THEIR lunch time, just like every other adult profession.
One more point about Poland's school nurse. My sister-in-law just graduated from nursing school and started her job at $60,000. The school nurse has 33 years experience in this postion, and is on the same pay scale as every other educator in Poland, So leave HER alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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46tnturbo(3 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I’d like to say, that I moved here 14 years ago and CHOSE the Poland School System. That does not mean that it’s a perfect system and things can’t be improved. I’m a stay at home mom and I’ve gone completely through the system with one child, and the second is at the high school now. We’ve been at two different elementary schools. There are three groups of families in our schools. Those who get whatever they want because their families are second and third generation, those who get what they want because they fight like crazy- right or wrong, and those who fall through the cracks and sail blissfully unaware through their years.
There are outstanding teachers who put their hearts and souls into everything they do for and with the kids. They come in early, stay late and vest themselves in the lives of their students. I’m truly grateful to have had these teachers in my children’s lives. But, for every one of those teachers there are two or three who do as little as possible.
As a volunteer I’ve seen teachers who consistently have that exhausted, nasty look that I had at the end of the day- except they had at it 8:30 in the morning and it was there every day. My child instructed one his teachers how to operate the five computers that sat in her room collecting dust, because she just didn’t know how to work them. I spent hours volunteering in the library every week one year, while the “librarian” would use the computer lab across the hall, and the laminating machine in the basement to put together a family history book that she was presenting to everyone in her family that summer. These kinds of abuses continued at McKinley, the middle school and the high school. The list is too long to detail here.
Every family with a child in the Poland schools has a personal issue. Education is personal. The protocol for addressing your personal issues is to begin with the teacher. So you call and maybe they call you, maybe they don’t. Go to the principal who looks you straight in the face and says, “That’s the first time I’ve heard this,” though you know three other people who’ve addressed the same issue. Then the superintendent tells you, nothing can be done because the teacher is tenured, and the district is too poor to fight the union, and he is, “Genuinely sorry about the distress caused to the child, and offers the district’s deepest sympathies.” The issue, by the way, is a teacher who told a 7 year old they were “stupid” for not being able to tell the difference between left and right. The cherry on that ice cream sundae of a story- the child is dyslexic. Is this teacher indicative of all the teachers- absolutely not. However, in my experience there have been so many more of these types of teachers than the good ones.

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47tnturbo(3 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I have fought for expanding academic programs at little or no cost to the district. I’ve fought for a standardized curriculum across all the grades. I’ve fought for fairness and accountability. I’ve fought for textbooks and expanded electives. I’ve learned my lesson, I quit fighting and now I work the system without compunction. I cannot wait for my child to graduate and be finished with the inequalities that PERMEATE this school system.
As for the levy- we have an athletic director, but not a curriculum director. We have rampant nepotism, we have abuses of power, and we have a flagrant lack of accountability. I have followed all of the prescribed steps, and I continue to bang my head against the wall. I will finally make my voice heard with my vote.

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48tnturbo(3 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

In response to JenJo, it is insulting to say you spend more time with my child. Shame on you, you have taken your experiences and lumped them all in to one grand statement, just as so many accuse us parents of doing.

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49aresident(6 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Take your ball and go home resident because my arguement holds water and you know it. You cannot have a constructive discussion because you have your blinders up and don't want to see what is there.

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50poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

tnturbo: I can feel your frustration in your posts and I truly feel for you. But I still can't understand why you would vote against the levies. You say you have a child in high school? Do you understand that if the levies fail then most of the electives at the high school will be cut? These are not idle threats - $3,000,000 in lost revenue has to come from somewhere.

My oldest is only at the elementary level, so at least all of the cuts affecting her can be overcome. But for a high school student, there simply will not remain the time to make up lost opportunities to take classes that would prepare for college.

I just can't wrap my head around voting against my children's education.

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51uphillbattle(14 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

the facts speak for themselves, and those facts are the regular and constant success of students graduating from poland schools.

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52aresident(6 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

resident is just a cyber bully. If you ignore him long enough, he will go away. But, I am actually wrong in that statment since after not posting for 10 hours it took him a mere 15 minutes to respond to my comment. Defending your bull headed closed minded opinion much? Creeping on vindy.com webpage? God forbid that you open your mind. There has not been one clear point made by you, just alot of CAPS and telling us that we don't have the facts or that we don't have an opinion because my child is not at the high school level. Guess what, my opinion is that the kids are worth it. The teachers may have issues, but with SB5 that should correct a bunch of bad errors made by the school board. I am not going to allow a few bad eggs ruin it for everybody else. I want my kid to attend a school of excellence. My vote is to pass the levy. If we cannot invest in our children's future, then what can we invest in? You want that "cushy" job, go get a teaching degree and become a teacher.

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53poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

resident: what electives are missing? When I look at the courses offerred, it looks pretty good to me.

http://www.poland.k12.oh.us/PSHS/curr...

Fail the levies, and they will only offer the minimums required for graduation.

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54meagain(80 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

In reading through multiple threads regarding this situation and ones similar to it I am amazed that we have gotten to this point in our society and communities. I take some solace, or hope, that the voices expressed here are not the majority. It seems to be the same posters who over and over again express their negative thoughts and ideas and obviously have nothing better to do with their days. I'm of the opinion that people who continually have bad things to say about northeast Ohio, Youngstown and our local communities would be unhappy regardless. It's not WHERE you are, but who YOU are. Life's like a piano, what you get out of it depends on how you play it. They'd be miserable and disenfranchised no matter what school district their children attended because that's just who they are. Every community has these people, and we all know people like this. We can't be sucked into their negative vortex and allow them to convince us we wear blinders. In essence, they are unhappy people and will continue to find things to be unhappy about regardless of circumstance. Does that me we don't acknowledge that there are aspects of communities and/or schools that can't be changed? No, there is always a place for change and reform, but we don't forsake the betterment of the whole because we have personal grudges vendettas or axes to grind. Dig deep enough and you'll find a disgruntled parent whose child isn't as perfect or talented as they think they are. Dig deep enough and you'll find someone passed over for a job. Keep digging and you'll find their kid didn't get enough playing time, make it for cheerleading, get the lead in the play or get all A's like they thought they should.
I don't presume, just because I pay my taxes, that I know how the people in public service should be paid. I looked at my tax statement. Now I live modestly and within my means. My property taxes are $2000. This to me is a fair price for the services I receieve. I am willing to pay this and more because I recognize that in the grand scheme it is a bargain for all I get. I also recognize it is my duty as a member of the community at large. I also will sleep well tonight remembering we cannot change other people or the fact that they will act in a certain way.

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55spinman(70 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

The current AD is making less than the prior antiquated AD who was there before. Not to mention his profits from the 50/50 basketball raffle at every home game that was never deposited. Why dont you ask the treasurer about that. NEVER A DEPOSIT in 20 years. do the math !!!!!

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56stewie(109 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

This why we need SB5 !

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57dawg57(3 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

polandrocks, I would like to know where your sister-in-law is working. There isn't a hospital in the area that starts an rn off at $60,000/year. I have 4 family members that are registered nurses and they have to work overtime to make over that amount. The school nurse isn't even allowed to give aspirin. The school nurses and the school teachers do not take classes all summer long either. That's a crock. Nurses are required to have so many continuing education credits every two years when they renew their licenses. This can be accomplished in under a few hours for only $30 using the internet. I would be willing to bet teachers can accomplish this in the same way. I have had two children go through the poland school system. I have one more in the middle school. This is a good school system and is NO better than any of the other school systems in the area, unless you're comparing it to Youngstown. Due to the grading scale this system uses, higher grade point averages are much easier to attain. My two children that graduated from Poland Seminary had to work harder for their grade point averages when they were at other school systems. Grade point averages are skewed when compared to the other schools in the area. So when little Johnny comes home with a C on his report card and you're so proud, anywhere else it would have been a D. State test scores are high because that's what they focus on. If the levy fails, life will go on and the kids will still be taught. I for one, will not vote for a $500/year tax increase on my property taxes. It is time for them to make sacrifices like the rest of us have had to do. They will still keep their jobs, teachers will still talk on their cell phones in the hallways during classtime, etc. The people who get upset about the negative comments are probably life-long Poland residents that live in a bubble and have no idea what the outside world is like. That is why everyone outside of Poland hates Poland.

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58Tellingthetruth(11 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Grow up people! I hear a lot of miserable and jealous people! How is cutting jobs going to help anything. These teachers stimulate YOUR local economy. A teacher making $77,000 year is tooooo much, PLEASE! These people are responsible for educating your CHILDREN! Yes, they spend more time with your son/daughter than you do. If you don't like what is going on in Poland then get involved. However, that would be to easy. Instead hide behind your computer and just run your mouths. I can not believe how disrespected teachers are. I'm tired of taxes just like everyone else is but that is life. Go a few minutes down the road into PA. Now you can talk about taxes. I'm sure for the most part if you live in Poland you can afford the taxes and if you don't then move. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Quit saying teachers only work 7-8hrs. a day, 183 days a year. We work on the weekends and before and after school. If you have a personal issue with a teacher because they are not returning papers on time or using inappropriate language then address it. The chain of command is to.... talk to the teacher, principal and if you still don't get anywhere then move to the superintendant. I love how everyone has such wonderful ideas but never does anything about it. Last time I drove through Poland most people seem to be living well, driving the best cars, wearing high-end clothing and living in beautiful homes. Most of the kids (ELEMENTARY INCLUDED) have cell phones, the best clothes and electronic gadgets. You can't spare anymore money for your child's education.... Where are your priorities people...... Enough with the bashing of educators .....Do you think if teachers in Poland were paid 30,000 dollars it would lower your taxes, NO! Everything costs more including your child's education. What about the doctors and lawyers charging an arm and leg to see them. No one is complaining about that. Poland is full of these private sector employees ripping off the public.. But that is "OK!" You don't want to hurt the hands that feed you.
I can quess most of you ignorant people could not handle the job of an educator for a day let along a life time. The teachers are the ones who deal with so much disrespect from the children and then get no support from YOU, their parents! Teaching is not an easy job. People seem to think it is. I agree there are teachers who get into the profession for the wrong reasons but maybe these administrators need to do their jobs and get rid of them before it is to late. At some point people need to put their differences aside for the sake of the children. If you truly can't afford the tax increase then by all means vote "NO." If you are just trying to make a statement then you should be ashamed of yourself. Teachers are not going to quit teaching your children because a levy doesn't pass. Be part of a solution not the problem!

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59meagain(80 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Since this article was regarding the schools stalling on releasing records and the requested information has been given and distributed that issue is resolved. It surely will be interesting to see how long it takes to get all the communities in the Mahoning County up and online. The first choices surely seem very coincidental. At any rate, I've never been one for judging my neighbors and presuming I know they're life, worth or work ethic. Of course if I did I'd assume my doctor golfs on Thursday and that anyone at Springfield Grille for lunch intends on writing it off on their taxes. I'd also assume my prescriptions are so exspensive because the rep got a trip to Vegas for a convention and what the heck his wife might as well go too. I'll also assume my neighbor on disability is working the system and really could do something. I'll also assume your Acura is a comapny car and the reason anything I buy cost too much. I'll also assume that your $500/year increase in taxes means you live in a house costing well over $350,000 and really what kind of sacrifices have you made living that well. Of course you see my point, sensationalized over generalizations aren't part of the solution. Therefore, don't assume that what you presume to see on the surface is truly anyone's reality and that includes what you think teachers and public service workers do and should earn regardless of whether you pay taxes or not. Also, don't forget they pay taxes too! Again, like I've always said if it's so great go do it, but don't expect to live in that $350,000 house. Of course I'd never judge whether you earn or deserve what you make. I for one am glad someone chose to do those jobs. Heaven for bid they make a decent living! As for SB5, I direct you to my post regarding that because picking at public service workers is truly not the solution to getting this country redirected and on track. It's all smoke and mirriors to much larger issues that honestly I'm not sure we can even begin to fix.
As for the civics lesson or living in a bubble - no thanks and wrong! But go ahead keep assuming. I see what good it's done for you.

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60SteveDee(9 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Poland is made up of crybaby parents and their spoiled children.
Plain and Simple
JUST VOTE NO!!!!

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61twentyonetwelve(98 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Only thing worse than spoiled Poland kids, are Mooney spoiled kids.

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62dawg57(3 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Tellingthetruth, apparently, teaching in Poland is not an easy job because we have to spend hours a night teaching our kids due to the teachers not being able to explain things. As far as putting in so much time before and after school, who in this world doesn't do that with their job? I'm telling my kids to go in to education because there's no accountability. I see why Poland was using stall tactics in providing the information requested. They knew it would cause a firestorm. And as far as every one hiding behind their computers, why don't you throw your real name out there if you're so tough? Otherwise, shut up. Check your grammar and spelling. It's indicative of a Poland education.

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63poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

resident: The schools are not asking for MORE money. They are being forced by the state to ask the community to replace the funding the state has cut.

The levies will bring in 3 million a year for 5 years and do not even come close to making up the funding that the state has cut.

If you want to mad at someone, it should be the state of ohio. After all, you are still paying the same amount of state taxes and none of it is being passed on to support your local school district. Now that is a shame.

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64poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

dawg57: the salaries for Poland teachers and staff have been available online via buckeyeinstitute.org for some time now. There you can search years of salary history.

The school district had nothing to hide, the Vindy reporter just needed a headline (he is apparantly not in support of Poland schools). Canfield's info did not appear until a week after this article and yet there was no Vindy publication slamming them.

Ironically, Canfield's salaries are in line with Poland's, as are many other comparable school districts in Ohio who are all asking for levies to make up for funding cuts. But I realize that acknowledging that fact would require admitting that there is a state-wide economic problem with school funding... and that would not be nearly as much fun as bashing Poland administration and teachers, right?

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65poland21(97 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Re: State cuts:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/apr/24...

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66mabell(25 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

I dont get it....The state cut funding.There's only so much money to go around.If the levy fails= Start cutting jobs.
So with all those well educated teachers there,why dont they come up with a plan to deal with the situation if the levy does'nt pass.I belive the math dept. should be able to whip this right out and come up with a solution.
Yet i dont see any responses from teachers on here with answers to solve this problem.Your teachers!!!! Welcome to the real world!!!Figure it out and look at the numbers,write back when you have an answer.Its all simple math.
I own a business,and my income is down,do you see me asking for help or receiving any?no....I figure it out and do what i gotta do.Its called life.
Your teachers,come up with a solution!!
I have never not voted yes for a levy.But what i'am saying is quite clear...the money is gone,the people we voted in to handle the money spent it and there's no more left.You gotta do what ya gotta do.If that meens take a pay cut or something else,you gotta bite the bullet.If you dont like it then take your degree and do something else.
I would love to hear a solution from the teachers union or a teacher on how to fix this issue.Good luck poland Good Luck

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67fedupwithcrap(317 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

How come the vindy stopped the comments for the Youngstown Man Caught Tailing police story, since it made 260 comments? is this how freedom of speech is stopped to anyone that wants to make an intelligent comment to a story? Is this how the vindy tried to control the truth?

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68ytown1(392 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

PLEEEAAASE!!!!! Do not trash any other of the stories, you have done enough damage, if you keep it up they will stop you from posting altogether, there has to be something in the rules that you are breaking. Are you watching Vindy?

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69fedupwithcrap(317 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Wow great copy/pasting ytown!!

Citizens, ask the vindy why they stopped the Youngstown Man Tailing Officers, and why you can't see the comments anymore!!

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70fedupwithcrap(317 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

@ytown,
You are the one following me around, and no I am no ludt, the name is Charlie!! I live outside of struthers and I am pretty well knows as well. Even was on the radio with the former mayor mckelvey, just check april 8, 2011 archives. So why do you keep calling names and insulting me and others, who happen to only want to speak the truth?

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71apollo(1227 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Poland dragging their feet should surprise nobody. The reaction I received from Boardman township employees and administration when I started posting Boardmans salaries 2 years ago was at least as uncooperative. They don't want their salaries in the public domain because they all realize they've been ripping off the taxpayers for decades. As long as the taxpayers are kept in the dark, the golden trough was never ending. Now that the Vindy has exposed them, the electorate might react the way they should, voting no.

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72cambridge(3024 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

apollo.....When are you going to release your salary? Are you posting while you are at work? Does your boss know?

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73Dan_Duran(2 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Amazing. No one reads between the lines. Marburger, an OHIO attorney, who represents THE VINDICATOR, and is a specialist in PUBLIC RECORDS, is ALSO WRITING A BOOK!!!!
Does PUBLICITY ring a bell?
My kids went to Poland schools. My grandkids go to Poland schools. And I didn't even come from Poland, Ohio. Wouldn't want it any other way.

Go Poland!

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74yes(10 comments)posted 3 years, 5 months ago

Teachers are not over paid. Neither are doctors or attorneys or wherever the average individual works. We are all underpaid, but we all watch the overpaid work. By this I mean those who watch television. Compared to actors, football players, basketball players, or baseball players and newscasters, we make peanuts.

The fact confronting Canfield, Poland, McDonald, and many school systems is that the TAXPAYERS are the persons paying the salaries. TAXPAYERS are the boss or business owner in a sense. At this time in Ohio we have become top heavy with government employees and less private sector workers. Public servants are no longer servants to the taxpayer, but a burden. All the school systems I have reviewed have paid their teachers some handsome increases along with some really nice administrators increases. Problem is that there are not many TAXPAYERS if any making enough money to fund these increases.

In 2006 my wife’s teaching job was eliminated. After 28 years of service no union could save it, nor could her good employee evaluations. As a result she found a new teaching position and had her salary reduced about 32%. When I look at the pay increases in these school districts, I see salary increases of as much as $19,000 since 2004. Sure those people may be worth it, but can we afford to pay it? Shame on those public servants for even asking the TAXPAYER for pay increases in the current economic time, expecting us to approve it in a TAX increase. We are in hard economic times. Why must the employer (the TAXPAYER) commit to this type of pay increase when we have not had that increase ourselves in most cases? Think about the fixed income individuals that will share the burden of the TAX to pay our public servants that make over $50,000 per year.

When every teacher and administrator takes 32% cut in pay like our household did, most TAXPAYERS would not mind helping out too if needed. Let us all think outside the box and look for other ways to pay our public servants. How about some contributions from those people we watch work everyday or may be just stop watching the actors and sports figures work..

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