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OHIO’S FISCAL FALLOUT: 10 things to know about SB 5



Published: Fri, April 1, 2011 @ 12:01 a.m.

By MARC KOVAC

news@vindy.com

COLUMBUS

Although it took a couple of weeks to get Senate Bill 5 through the legislature and signed into law, much mystery still exists about what’s actually in the bill – and where it goes from here.

Here are 10 things you should know about the controversial legislation:

By MARC KOVAC

news@vindy.com

COLUMBUS

Although it took a couple of weeks to get Senate Bill 5 through the legislature and signed into law, much mystery still exists about what’s actually in the bill – and where it goes from here.

Here are 10 things you should know about the controversial legislation:

One: The final bill passed by lawmakers is more than 300 pages of legal language outlining Ohio Revised Code word changes. An easier-to-understand analysis compiled by the Legislative Service Commission includes explanations of 52 changes in state law included in the bill. Both are available online on the General Assembly’s website, www.legislature.state.oh.us.

Two: For all of its potential impact on organized labor and 360,000 government workers, it mentions the word “union” in relation to collective bar2. gaining units only three times.

Three: Normally, legislation takes effect 90 days after being signed by the governor, putting the provisions in Senate Bill 5 in place by late June. But a planned referendum by opponents of the bill would postpone that effective date until after the November general election — or perhaps ever, if voters reject it.

Four: The bill would prohibit school teachers and other public school employees from negotiating a maximum number of students assigned to a classroom and requires pay to be based on employee performance, not solely on seniority.

Five: The new law will prohibit strikes by all public employees. Those who choose do so anyway will have their paychecks docked at twice their daily pay rate or they could be fired. Additionally, the law allows public employers to seek court injunctions against strikers, which could lead to additional fines or possible jail time.

Six: Senate Bill 5 could mean less take-home pay for public employees and lower collection totals for the unions representing them. The bill caps state and local government payments toward workers’ health care premiums at 85 percent, so employees would have to make up the difference if they are paying less than 15 percent of the costs. And it prohibits state payments into employees’ pension plans through the five state retirement systems. Additionally, unions could no longer force employees who do not want to become members to make “fair share” payments.

Seven: Opponents of Senate Bill 5 are poised to launch a petition drive to place the issue on the November ballot. They will have to gain 1,000 initial signatures from registered Ohio voters to seek a certification of their referendum effort by the state attorney general. Then they will have until early July to submit more than 231,000 signatures to the Secretary of State, with signers representing at least half of Ohio’s 88 counties.

Eight: Both Republicans and Democratic and union groups already have websites in place as part of their coming campaigns for and against the bill. . Proponents are online at www.sb5truth.com. Opponents can be found at www.stopsenatebill5.com.

Nine: Few referendums seeking to repeal Ohio laws have appeared on the ballot in recent years. The most recent was an unsuccessful effort in 2008 by the payday loan industry to overturn limits passed by lawmakers. Another group tried but failed to have voters to decide whether to keep in place restrictions on nude dancing in Ohio.

Ten: Gov. John Kasich announced his intentions to sign the bill in an email from his campaign group, seeking donations from supporters. It read, “Will you support our ongoing efforts to fight for Ohio taxpayers with a $20, $10 or even $5 contribution today and help us continue to return the balance of power? There is a reason that the union bosses opposed these changes; because it strips power from the union leaders and returns it to the taxpayers and workers. But make no mistake; we are fighting to save Ohio and need your help.”


Comments

1chairman(12 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Kasich has plans to get in your pocket too-read on..I am sure that there are many that believe public employees should
make the sacrifices that this Governor
supports. To those may I note that currently there is a bill that was introduced in Columbus a few months ago that will allow mid-size employers
to pay give their employees compensatory time instead of time and a half for overtime. Yes this means workers that are employed by private
companies in Ohio. You see this tyrant
that has posed as Governor will do anything to work his personal agenda--that is to run for President ---God help us all, So if you are not a public employee
beware Kasich will be in your pocket next!

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2jkf573(12 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

This story needs to be better edited. Points seven and nine are identical. So are point eight and ten.

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3webad(156 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

How does it feel to be living in a police state, all you people who voted for yourselves to be fined and tossed into jail?

Question: What kind of fool elects these power & money crazed freaks?
Answer: Hoodwinked minions of the super-rich, aka Tea-partiers, aka dunces.

This is a sickening assault on the working man ... no, on all of us. You'd better put your bodies in the streets and start protesting today. GET OFF THE COUCH ! ... because it's just the beginning, Egad! I can't believe this is really happening.

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4MD1533(25 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

We'll vote in favor of State Bill 5! We're taxpayers and do not like the unions stance to boycott businesses that do not come out and support "Their" cause! They'll probably key their cars too or squeeze their produce as the unions have done in the past! Is this what we want our children to learn?

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5webad(156 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

To: MD 1533
So then shoot yourself in the foot because you're having a toddler tantrum ... and hurt the interests of other workers because you're envious of the power of organized labor.

You should be informed that businesses organize, too. They have the Chamber of Commerce, the Better Business Bureau, Lobbyists, and all sorts of other business interest groups.

You're so transparent. Stop being selfish, jealous, and hateful. Go organize the workers where you work.

And I wish people would stop standing behind 'the children' BS in an attempt to legitimize every absurd argument.

How does it feel to be living in a police state, all you people who voted for yourselves to be fined and tossed into jail?

Question: What kind of fool elects these power & money crazed freaks?
Answer: Hoodwinked minions of the super-rich, aka Tea-partiers, aka dunces.

Egad ! This is a sickening assault on the working man and on all of us. You'd better put your bodies in the streets and start protesting. GET OFF THE COUCH ! You people need to fix this ... because it's going to get even worse.

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6UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

SB5 is good for my middle class wallet and addresses part of the the state budget $8B shortfall. The state now has a fair and balanced approach to public employee unions' pay and benefits. Thanks to the GOP Legislature and John Kasich for taking the heat that got this bill passed and signed. We love you guys!

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7repeaters(208 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

The saying, 'all politics are local' now also includes, 'all taxes are local' because all the taxing power is now been passed to the local communities. Now citizens, school boards, and local governments have the power to 'make or break' their communities when it comes to supporting or not supporting levies. Those who choose to 'VOTE TILL YOUR BROKE' will do absolutely that, and become lifeless and abandoned. Those that have community involvment will spend their money wisely and hold school boards and local governments accountable. The power is now truly in your hands...you have no excuses.

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8valleyred(1098 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Bring it to the ballot so Ohioans can say YES to SB5 and put an end to this union nonsense once and for all.

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9mcluvin(72 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I like most of what is contained in SB5 but they went to far. Removing the binding arbitration could have been a great tool but it does not apply to wages. Also, banning any pension contribution from the employer is crazy. What decent employer does not contribute to a pension fund for their employees? Employees in the public sector are willing to take less in base pay because of the benefits that they have. Now what? Alot will leave their jobs to make more money in the private sector. So where do the public services come from? Good Job John!

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10Ypboy(50 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Grow up and start to be responsible adults. You union supporters are always looking for an entitlement or handout. The "Pay for performance" concept can be very rewarding. I've made millions....you can as well.

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11atownreader(34 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I don't comment very often, but I think that this issue is one of the most important to come along in quite a while. What Gov. Kasich and his cronies have done should be considered a crime. The bill is passed now, but it will be stopped in November because people will have opened their eyes to the evil in these jokers. I am not a union member , but will support wholeheartedly the opposition to SB5.

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12Philo(99 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

The taxpayers are fed up and they far outnumber the public sector workers. There's no way Senate Bill 5 will be overturned in a referendum. In fact, it may not be overturned here in the valley when the TV commercials start running about how some of the public sector workers have abused the taxpayers who pay their gold plated wage and benefit packages.

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13JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Don't you just love the doomsday mistruth's the Left is spreading:

"private sector workers experienced another setback this month when the Ohio School Facilities Commission repealed the policy recommending professional trade unions be hired for construction projects"

How does this hurt the private sector employees, and what part of this says " The commission will not look at contracts specifying labor groups"? The key word is "recomend", not favor. They should be neutral when evaluating contracts. Wouldn't that save the school some money so they can pay the teachers more, and save the taxpayer? Oh that's right, being neutral only applies to organizations such as Youngstown/Warren Regional Chamber of Commerce.

"How does it feel to be living in a police state, all you people who voted for yourselves to be fined and tossed into jail?"

Not in SB5.

"Also, banning any pension contribution from the employer is crazy."

Not is SB5.

"And I wish people would stop standing behind 'the children' BS in an attempt to legitimize every absurd argument."

Isn't this the card the anti-SB5 group keeps playing? Thank you for pointing that out.

"Teachers can now teach all the kids like college classes 100 per class."

Come on Geromajor, do you really believe that, or are you spreading misconceptions? Where in SB5 does it say the class sizes will be 100?

"To those may I note that currently there is a bill that was introduced in Columbus a few months ago that will allow mid-size employers to pay give their employees compensatory time instead of time and a half for overtime. "

A few months ago Strickland was still in office. But none the less, that would be an option for businesses who are struggling and need to stay alive without possibly cutting back in wages/benefits or laying people off.

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14cathylukasko(116 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Keep up the good work, Governor Kasich. We finally have someone in the office who puts the taxpayer first, NOT Unions.

Just made another contribution to your campaign fund!

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15JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"It is sad that some people believe anything that is spoon fed to them by the people pulling their strings with false, politically motivated misinformation."

I completely agree, the unions are doing a good job about spreading the misconceptions regarding SB5

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16walter_sobchak(1922 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

geromajor,
It will be up to the school boards since they contract with the teachers. The unions don't like the class size provision since it will effectively limit the quantity of workers that pay union dues. Less money means less power. However, let's say that a class is limited to 25 students and the district has 26 students for a given class. This would mean having to contract another teacher.

But, this is about ALL public employees, not just teachers. There are many more employees than just teachers. The unions frame it this way because they can use the children as pawns in the game of life. After all, who wants to make the children suffer, right? Well, me, for one. If it's giving the children everything they need but not everything they want, I say, let them suffer. If it is about schools, though, it is time to start combining districts into more efficient operations, eliminating unnecessary and overlapping administration, and using the savings to hire more teachers. At the very least, administration of districts must be shared.

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17oldmillspice(160 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

What part of BROKE dont we understand ?

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18dees2cents(38 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

My daughter is a third year teacher in Ohio ( not locally) and this Senate Bill 5 will totally change her living situation.
She will have thousands taken from her yearly income, have to pay more for her benefits and she will have to pay into her retirement.
Because of this bill, my daughter most likely will have to leave the job she loves, went to college for 5 years for,and had been her career choice from a very young age. Why? Because she will no longer make enough money to support herself teaching. She will have to sell her home, which she has only lived in for the three years that she has been teaching and that is even if she can sell it.
It is a shame when you have a child that worked very hard to get a degree in this field that is out there making the difference with our youth , only to get slapped in the face.
What do you say to someone who still owes college loans that will no longer even be able to apply the degree that they earned.
She was always a good student, high school and college. She was never in trouble. Chose to further her education and be a productive citzen, Has worked since she was 16, never took a hand out, basically did all the right things and she will now be punished for it.
Maybe she should have taken the easy way out and lived off our system, after all, they will not be losing any money.
And that is my point, take from the ones that do not want to work, take off of the ones that are in our prisons , that choose a life of crime instead of working hard and becoming something to better our community.
There are so many other places that Kasich could have made changes to save money, but no, he decided to hit our educational system. How sad is that? The only people that will take these teaching jobs will be people that do not have the passion and dedication that our teachers have that are working right now.
Many of my daughters co-workers will have to find other employment in order to make ends meet, some are even considering joining our military because they have student loans that they will not make enough to pay back and still have money left to make ends meet.
These young people chose a career that would make a difference to our youth, our future and now they are worried how their lives will change. Many will have to relocate to a state that realizes how important education is and praise the hard working teachers that are there working so hard to educate our young so that they to will go on to college and make a contribution to our society.
Kasish should be ashamed to have hit our educational system. I hope that this never goes into effect and that he never, ever gets into office again. What a huge mistake was made putting him in as Governor.

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19JJ(28 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

This govenor is a complete hypocrite. He is paying his chief of staff more than what President Obama is paying his. Kasich's excuse, "you have to pay for talent to recruit to the public sector."

However taking away one of the biggest benefits of being a teacher is the benefits, since pay is marginal.

Kasich also declined moving into the governor's masion, however outfitted his home will $2 million of home security at the tax payers expense.

Basically everyone has to sacrifice expect for the people him.

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20JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Geromajor,

As usual, the Vindy half-azzed the reporting. The employer does not have to pick up the "pension pick-ups" - in other words, part of the employees 10% contribution. It does not reduce management's contribution.

"These percentages can be adjusted under current law through labor negotiations using "pension pick-ups" -- a practice by which employers agree to pay a portion of the employees' 10 percent contribution. SB 5 outlaws "pension pick-ups" but it does not increase the standard 10 percent pension contribution public employees are expected to make, nor does it reduce management's contribution. "

http://www.kasichforohio.com/site/c.h...

Regarding class size, the State does not determine that, it is up to the schools' administration. Don't you think it would be in the best interest of the administrators to keep the class size managable?

Enough with the doomsday mistruths.

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21JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

JJ,

Kasich's overall staff salary is less than Stricklands.

Teacher pay is marginal? You don't have a clue:

"An Ohio public-school teacher's average salary is now about $57,000 for 182 official working days"

Don't give me the excuse that they have to take work home with them, most professionals do.

Benefits are part of it, but in case you've lived in a closet the last 7 or 8 years, health premiums have gone through the roof for all employers. That now becomes one rather generous benefit for teachers.

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22JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Link for Ohio teachers average salary:

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/...

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23JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"have to pay more for her benefits and she will have to pay into her retirement."

For the private sector employees, been there done that.

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24JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Geromajor, referring to the Vindy reporting these false statements:

"which could lead to additional fines or possible jail time."

Jail time is not in the bill.
And your statement:

"And it prohibits state payments into employees’ pension plans through the five state retirement systems."

This is completely false and misleading. I'm not arguing your figures or where you got them. The "pension pick-ups" is were the savings come from.

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25Attis(903 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Now the fight really begins. To circulate petitions check out this site:
seiu1199.seiu.org/page/s/referendumvolunteers

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26JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Geromajor,

Regarding your point (post #38) about the State not picking up part of the employees 10% pension contribution; your correct, the local government does that:

"The savings estimate did not include the bill's proposed ban on employers paying any part of an employee's share of his or her pension costs. More than 2,500 local governmental units pick up at least part of the tab now."

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/...

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27dees2cents(38 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

JME,

You and me both, that is not the real problem here though. Nor is the personal days being lowered and not being able to roll them over.
What the problem here is that they are going to take thousands off her yearly income.
How many of us, (that do not live above our means) can take a cut like that in pay, and at the same time pay more for food , utilities, gas, health benefits etc.?
Many people have told me , well she chose her career. What ashame that teachers are thought so poorly of.
Their children chose a different path in life and I am happy for them, but my daughter went to college, goes to work and takes things home, pays out of her own pocket for many things so that she can provide a great education for her students. And this is the thanks she gets?
I agree that some of the educators are making a lot of money but not the newer teachers. Even the colleges tell these kids, if you are into this for the money, choose another profession, but if you are into education to make a difference then you are on the right path. Everyone knows that it is a common belief that no one wants to become a teacher because of the low pay. Why go to college for 5 years and make this amount of income if you could go for 4 years and make a lot more money in another field.
This Senate Bill 5 has just hit to close to home for me, as a Mother , I am worried as to my daughter's next move and whether or not she will be able to hold onto her home. I am sure you can understand my fears.

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28msweetwood(161 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Thanks to those who pointed out that something bad happened to this list as it made it's way online today. It should be fixed now.

Mark Sweetwood
Managing Editor

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29JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

The imprisonment was removed by the House this week. Violating a court order would result in jail time - which applies to any situation involving a judge/court. Again, the Vindy misled:

"Other changes to the bill would:

* Allow the government employer to continue to deduct union dues from a worker's paycheck, but no longer could it take out money the worker wants to give to the union's political action committee.

* Ensure that workers who strike illegally are not subject to jail time. However, Democrats argue this option is still possible if a judge finds an employee violated a court injunction."

...

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/...

Geromajor, I do give you credit for debating this issue in a rational way, rather than the name calling and such we see on here often.

Got a few things to do, but I'll check back.

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30dees2cents(38 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Hunter 21,

Believe me my daughter will pay her (one year) college loan because that is her obligation.
And YES, she IS going to lose thousands per year, that IS A FACT.
And one last thing sir, I am not whining, I am just trying to let the other side of the story be told.
That is one reason why I do not like e-mails or forums like this, because there is no emotion attached and people can read it with attitude or as whining as you did , when I am just explaining what is happening on her end of this Senate Bill 5. Sorry if you took this as whining.
My daughter will survive like anyone else and she may even be better off with changes but time will tell.

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31candystriper(575 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

where in the bill is audit the workload

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32VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

It is so sad that unions have, once again pitted citizens against each other for the sake of union control. They are even now bragging they will raise over 20 million dollars to "get even" with those who voted for SB5 !!?? So now the state will have to delv up money to protect SB5 and they cannot even begin to implement SB5 until after November! What a waste of taxpayer time and money just to overcome the union objections.

I say, lets just file bankruptcy, declare the State insolvent and begin as a new state with new workers. If the union wants a fight, they may get just what they are asking for.

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33rosthoff(5 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Effective teaching requires a limit to class sizes. In my high school math class, Algebra 1, there are 22 students. Please realize the greater the student to teacher ratio is, the less individualized attention teachers can provide.

Not restricting class sizes is a recipe for cost savings but it will take away from many students the opportunity to learn.

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34rosthoff(5 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Effective teaching requires a limit to class sizes. In my high school math class, Algebra 1, there are 22 students. Please realize the greater the student to teacher ratio is, the less individualized attention teachers can provide.

Not restricting class sizes is a recipe for cost savings but it will take away from many students the opportunity to learn.

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35cambridge(3031 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

360,000 families in Ohio just got a dose of "republican family values".

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36redvert(2075 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Just remember that all of this was brought on by union greed. Not the rank and file in most cases, but the leadership that collects all the dues. As a union rank and file member, do you think the big wheels in your union will be affected at all from this bill? Let us see if any of you have the guts to be honest!

I would bet that the union higher ups lit up when the thought of raising 20 million to fight this came up. Maybe not all that 20 million will be spent on the fight. The rank and file can be BS'd into thinking it was. What are they gonna do, ask to see the books?

This whole thing could turn out fine!!!

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37JMB(2 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

There's something else that needs to be known about SB5. Gov. Kasich likes to present this legislation as necessary to "restore balance" between public employee job compensation and that of their counterparts in the private sector. However, an independent study conducted by the Economic Policy Institute and released in February concludes Ohio public employees are NOT over-compensated, as Gov. Kasich contends. Ironically, when it comes to a balance of compensation between counterparts Gov. Kasich is the 14th highest-paid governor in the country (at $144,269), while the members of the Ohio legislature are the sixth highest-paid in the country (at $60,584). I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat, nor am I a public employee but I know fertilizer when I smell it.

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38doesnotmindtaxes(1 comment)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Increasing class sizes is all part of the republican plan to keep our students uneducated, the rich can afford to send their kids to private schools that can keep their class sizes small. The poor must be kept uninformed if they are to continue their larger agenda, do you guys not see this? Eliminating funding for PBS and NPR, this is EDUCATIONAL programming, these programs educate us, so they want to cut them, keep us uninformed. Requiring photo ID to vote, means if you can't afford a car, and you can't afford to drive, you have to somehow get to the BMV to get a photo ID, which means you have to pay for that card, and if you can't afford the fee, you can't afford to vote, thus charging the poor to vote, and why would they not want to the poor to vote? because they usually vote democrat. I am my brothers keeper, I feel that we should employ more people in the departments of welfare, unemployment, food stamps, etc. Those people can then police their dependants better, find the abuses, AND help them to get out of the system, that is the part that we abandon, we complain about having a zillion people getting handouts but we don't help those people get out of the system once their are in. We need to EDUCATE our young better, we need better and more teachers, not bigger classes.

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39jethead11(139 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Class size will be determined by school administrators who are accountable to the taxpayers. If Boardman wants to differenciate itself from other school districts, they may opt for smaller classes. Canfield may think larger classes are better. At least the control is back in the hands of the taxpayers, where it belongs.

This bill also permits teachers to choose not to pay union dues. Does anyone disagree with that - giving teachers a choice? Unless you are union boss profiting off the working class, please tell us why this is a bad thing.

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40JMB(2 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

To geromajor:

Then we need to join together -- stand together -- and FIGHT BACK! We can beat this attack on working families at the polls.

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41jethead11(139 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Geromajor, the largest contributor to the elected officials in the Mahoning Valley are the unions and organized crime (same people run both). They are the one's running the show and corrupting the process. SB5 helps take some of that power away from them. Look at the bill they are so fired up about and show me where it is a true "attack on working families". It is not, and was never intended to be. It limits the influence of unions so the elected officials can work in the best interest of the people instead of the union. The people will get some of their power back. When you see phrases like "attack on working families", it is a scare tactic. Take everything they say and really think about what they are saying, what they are trying to make you feel. Don't be conned by them, or the other side for that matter. Make up your own mind, and don't let anyone scare you into any position.

And, as I have said before, democracy is not a spectator sport. Get in there and demand your politicians represent you. That is what they are paid for. A major hurdle to doing that has been moved out of your way with this bill.

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42grand4dad(197 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

JMB,
Thanks for your posts. If the governor wants to "restore balance between public employee job compensation and their counterparts in the private sector", then why did he have to HUGE salaries to his incoming assistants (much more than the outgoing people from Strickland's group)? I believe he said it was because he had to give them salaries high enough to attract/keep them as opposed to jobs they could get in the private sector. Seem like he is talking out of both sides of his mouth. I agree this is an attack on working families and I will stand and fight against it.

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43FormerYtowner(96 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

@ UnionForever, are you that stupid? I mean really that stupid? Your screen name is UNIONFOREVER. If I am to assume right, you believe in the unions and all of the perks associated with them. Now you sir, or mam, or what ever species you go by, are a hypocrite. Go head on over to the FOX News forums with all of the other RepubliCONS.

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44Freeatlast(1991 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Just GOP. tea , KKK scumbags . This is what you voted for FOOLS
Live with it

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45JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Ah, the Left has come out with the name calling, I guess they don't have any facts to argue with. And judging by their actions in Columbus, it looks like they are the new tea baggers.

Here's one of your finest Wisconsin colleagues, and an educator of the precious children that you have been preaching about:

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2011/04/wi...

@grand4dad, I believe Kasich's overall staff salaries are lower than Stricklands.

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46peacelover(790 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

The ones I feel sorry for are the new teachers right out of college. They are really getting screwed. Who in their right mind would want to be a teacher in Ohio now? You will see the vast majority of them leaving and looking for work in other states, and I don't blame them one bit.

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47JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

I hear there's a couple more positions to fill, but they are already budgeted and in the totals.

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48grand4dad(197 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

@JME,

For information on what Kasich's top aides are making, see the following:
http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/jan/07...

I'd like to see leadership by example. Don't use the same tired excuse as everyone else, that you have to pay these people these big salaries to attract/keep them or else they will go to the private sector. That kind of thinking is what got us in trouble in the first place. How about stepping up to the plate and taking cuts in your own department first instead of just taking it out on all the middle class folks?

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49mdmagana(6 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Aside from soaking us regular folks with higher costs on everything from automobiles, to groceries, to utilities, and to taxes, what do unions do for the common consumer? NOTHING!

Most union members get paid very high wages considering a trained monkey could do their job just as well and when they don't get their way they result to intimidation and common thuggery. Why on Earth anyone would support these spoiled people who could careless about anyone else is beyond me.

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50eyemhip(4 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Now that he has his way with the public unions, I hope he will go after the REAL money grabbing culprits. How about the insurance companies, banks, and the entire medical industry. Let's see him cap a physician's salary at 75k. RX's at no more than $10 per 30 day supply. Just think how affordable healthcare would be. Oh, I forgot who his biggest contributers are.

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51HonestAbe(274 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

mdmagana, how sad that you have bought into the myths of the tea baggers. tell me, what IS a fair wage for someone who has two master's degrees? you say a trained monkey can do the job of a teacher? a firefighter? a college professor? what about a nurse? it's difficult to try and even respond to such foolishness. you want to talk about common thuggery? my university college was spit upon by a tea bagger while peacefully protesting in columbus. she was also called a greedy b*tch. nice. your comments are so ridiculous i should thank you for giving me my belly laugh for the day. we are not selfish, nor are we spoiled. we work hard every day to provide for our families. contrary to what you think, we don't own yachts, nor do we belong to country clubs. it's sad you have so little respect for the people who educate your children, protect your health and safety, keep your roads plowed in the winter, etc. you have the nerve to say these people could care less about other people? that's really ironic... that's what PUBLIC SERVICE IS...caring about other people. I'm just wasting my time trying to convince you, I know that, but you are dead wrong when you say a monkey can do my job! At least I know the difference between "care less" and "careless".

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52borylie(791 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

peacelover,What business in their right mind would move to or start a business in Ohio? Why would you have a business in Ohio when you can be in Florida?

Out of all you posters against SB5,very few have said what they would do to get the state's deficit balanced now and ten years from now,and what they would do to lure businesses to Ohio. Any coherent,well thought out ideas? We know what you wouldn't do,but what would you do?

Freeatlast,please put your intelligent input into this,we're all waiting for child's view on this discussion.

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53ytowhoh330(89 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Hell yea I'm voting Yes for sb5!!!!

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54borylie(791 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

geromajor,Thanks for the attempt,but your ideas were pretty much in generalities. How would you get rid of crooked politicians? When bragging about our "skilled" workers,would you let them know we have a strong union presence? How would diversity help a business? Wouldn't they be after the best and brightest to hire? Unless of course they had to reach a hiring quota.You would give tax breaks yet a lot of the posters here bemoan the fact that businesses get tax breaks and we're just lining the pockets of the"fat cats"? Do you mean by being excited that we do,,like cartwheels or be excited like the Chamber when a business inquires about locating here,then is blasted when it fails in bringing in the jobs? Speaking of the Chamber,would you support it and ask it for help in asking questions to Pittsburg? And actually there is more space and you have posted sixteen times alone on this thread. Olddude says you're intelligent,probably so,but intelligent people are usually problem solvers. Someone here praised you for your civility here while posting,I totally concur,not like some of these deranged imbeciles. You seem to take both sides of the discussion,which could be alright to straddle the fence,but do you have strong convictions,a real moral compass? Take your time in answering as I'm going to the local MENSA meeting to meet Rocky and Freeatlast.

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55borylie(791 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

geromajor,I'm disappointed in your solutions,unless by planting trees you can attract Georgia-Pacific to come here in about thirty years. You see it's not that easy to create an atmosphere to attract jobs here and in Ohio. That's why you should be applauding and encouraging Governor Kasich's solutions. Of course we won't know for years if his policies will work,but at least they are new ideas. And thousands of people don't want to even give him a chance. So,which one are you,going to root for him and encourage others to do the same,or be against him?

Cleaning up the area may sound pretty,but I'm going to check on the tax structure,the labor climate,worker compensation rates and a myriad of other business related questions before I check to see if the sidewalks are swept.

You barely answered any of my questions in my post #86. If you just want to post to post have at it,but I won't take you seriously. Like I told a serial poster before,you don't rack up airline miles every time you post.

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56JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Grand4dad,

A couple points to be made on your link, (1) its dated Jan. 7, 2011 and only lists a handfull of positions and (2) its the Vindicator which is highly biased toward Democrats and Unions.

That said, you are correct about a few of the positions, but overall Kasich staff salaries are lower.

I don't agree with you that the best talent doesn't have a price tag. It comes down to supply and demand, if there are plenty of qualified people available the salary drops. Just look at the salaries for jobs in the Valley, they low because of an abundance of qualified people (supply) to do the little jobs in this area (demand).

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57grand4dad(197 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

All due respect JME, I'd still like someone to tell me why it is OK for Kasich to pay more for positions he feels are necessary and come at a higher price tag. Isn't that the same logic Gains used when he handed out big raises to his staff or when any other public agency does the same thing? And, I never said the best talent doesn't have a price tag, so there is nothing to disagree with me about on that point. I agree with you that the best does have a price tag. I want the best police officers, fire fighters, teachers, etc. They too come at a price tag. But isn't a big part of your argument that we don't have the money to pay for the best. So if Kasich wants to save the state money by lowering pay and benefits for public workers, shouldn't he take the lead and apply that same principle to his own staff? Why should it be different for him and his staff? That's the problem, someone always wants to pay for all the cuts everywhere but from their own pocket.

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58borylie(791 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

geromajor,Three more posts? Must be getting airline miles. You beg to differ with me on the governor and his fresh ideas,that he hired "most" with political backgrounds. That they're the same old tired people. One of his first appointees was Mark Kvamme from the Silicon Valley,California. Not a politician and has been associated with Apple,You Tube,PayPal,Google,Cisco and Oracle. All this for six months at only $1.00. He will oversee the hiring of the right people to start the Department of Development. Some of his ideas are using the Universities (which by the way have been used like you suggested for years) and to stop companies that receive state monies then leave the state. So once again you don't really know what you're talking about. Just throwing softball answers to act like you're engaged in all these discussions. Since this post is about SB5,are you for it or against it? Are you for telling potential employers looking to locate in The Valley,that it has a strong union presence? And after you pull in the area for an attitude adjustment session,perhaps you could go to Gary,Indiana and help them. Let me know when you're done. After 4 1/2 hours I thought you might be done or oiling your keyboard.

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59borylie(791 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

geromajor,You can tell how I feel about people by my post and you want to blame me for hurting the state? You knock Governor Kasich for not himself working on fresh ideas. How do you know that? Well you do your Kumbaya number on potential employees and I'll wait for the State of Ohio to once again become worker friendly. Governor Kasich and SB5 is the first steps to achieving this. Take care,I'm done. Your mind is made up and you'll become another anchor on this recovery that will happen under Governor Kasich.

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60borylie(791 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

geromajor,six months like I stated in post #95. Yeah, he's deeply invested in Kasich,that's why he got the job. The job he's getting paid ONE dollar to do. Sheeesh,read the posts before you find the need to fire off another of your posts.

I'd like to say what out of the box projects have you worked on,like what,pouring cereal into your bowl? But I want to keep this civil,so I won't take that jab.

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61JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Average,

Ask the Hagan and all the Democrats why there aren't many jobs in the Valley, The Democrats and Unions have dominated this area for over 50 years, and look what they have to show for it.

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62JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Average, Republicans creating jobs:

"Columbia Gas to add 125 positions"

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/apr/01...

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63InColumbiana(63 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Written above: "We all hit speed bumps in our lives and get through it She's not going to lose thousands of dollars. So what other job is going to pay her more than teaching?"

Uh, assuming that OH is like other states that require a Master's Degree to teach, she can go into on-line education design and come out of the gates as a consultant in the mid-80's (as in $85k/yr) Once she has some of the applications and processes down, she can be in the mid 90's easily...

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64InColumbiana(63 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

"Average, Republicans creating jobs:
"Columbia Gas to add 125 positions""

Let-see... a publicly subsidized company has to put on more workers to replace their publicly subsidized gas lines because they're now aging and dangerous...

Why don't you about American Greeting and the other companies who are going south and taking THOUSANDS of jobs with them instead?

... oops, guess American Greetins is staying after all because Kasich is giving them $93.5 million of our tax payer dollars to stay ... what deficit?

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65JME(801 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

Aren't most large employers subsidized with tax breaks?
V&M and GM-Lordstown ring a bell?

Oops.

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66Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 3 years, 6 months ago

http://innovationohio.org/wp-content/...

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