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Columbus mayor bans city travel to Arizona

Published: Wed, May 19, 2010 @ 2:59 p.m.

COLUMBUS (AP) — The mayor of Columbus will no longer allow workers to travel to Arizona on city business in response to the state’s new law targeting illegal immigration.

Spokesman Dan Williamson said today that Mayor Michael Coleman will not approve any travel to Arizona because he “agrees with those who want to send a message ... that this is not the American way.”

Williamson says the order was issued at a recent meeting with city department heads.

The new Arizona law requires police enforcing another law to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are in the country illegally.

Several other cities have passed resolutions or urged boycotts to protest the law, including Los Angeles, San Diego, Seattle, and Austin, Texas.


1NilesOhio(996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Oh give me a break. They're called "ILLEGAL" for a reason. If I did something illegal, I'd expect to be prosecuted. These folks get upset if potential ILLEGALs are even questioned.

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2quietimtalking(2 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Mayor Michael Coleman will not approve any travel to Arizona because he “agrees with those who want to send a message ... that this is not the American way.”

What part of wanting people who benefit from living in this country to be a legal citizen of The United States of America is not the American way?

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3300(573 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I support this boycott completely.

It's not about people supporting illegal immigration. It's the fact that this law will target LEGAL citizens/immigrants who are Hispanic. An American doesn't need to have ID on him in most situations, but now you could targeted as "suspicious" simply because you're at a bus station or in a park, and asked for ID to prove you're legal. This is the aspect that is wrong.

On a side point, I can't stand the hypocrisy of so many here. In Northeast Ohio, most of us are only a few generations separated from immigrants; many of them illegal. My great-grandmother was never naturalized, but since she was Irish, nobody in Youngstown cared. What about that Vietnam vet who got his recognition in the Vindy a few weeks ago? His father was a Serbian stow-away, shouldn't he and all his children be sent back to the Balkans?

Oh no, wait, I see, it's because here they're Irish/Italian/Slavic, so that's OK. We're after the Hispanics.

Why should a person who's family has lived in Arizona since the 1500s need to carry ID at all times, while someone who looks like me wouldn't (even though my grandmother would classify as an anchor-baby, like much of the Mahoning Valley)?

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4Nunya22(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

@GTX66 your comment is why some people are protesting this.

How will the State of Arizona actually do this? Are they just going to go up to every hispanic looking person and question them?

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5Nunya22(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

@ ailierdroit You don't feel someone who may have been born here being questioned because of the way they look or however that state is going to do this questioning offensive? If it needs to be like that than everyone in the United States of America need to have special id's that they was born here or that they obtained citizenship. That is just my opinion so certain people won't be targeted it would be fair treatment of how they could go about this.

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6cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

aillerdroit....I believe you when you say that you have no problem being stopped to prove you are a legal citizen.

The question is, would you have a problem after you had to prove it a few dozen times?

Hispanics and Latins can't change the way they look. No matter how many times a person is stopped they still fit the criteria to me stopped. That's why it's a bad law.

I'm against illegal immigration but that law is not the solution and I'm all for boycotting Arizona.

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7MFC997(261 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Coleman's just mad because he's not white and his wife's a criminal. Anybody stopped can be charged with driving without a license. This law gives cops more leeway to root out the illegals who are currently causing havoc in Arizona with crime and drug smuggling. Do not pass judgement on such a law unless you are there on the ground and dealing with what Arizonans are dealing with on a daily basis. Americans across the country agree with it by about a 60-40 margin. In electoral terms we call that a landslide but the press won't tell you that now will they.

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8Millie(192 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

How many illegals are living in Ohio that the taxpayers are supporting? Coleman ought to get a life and pay attention to what is taking place with the rocket pace of Federal Handouts to whoever wants one but I bet the majority of those that approve of Coleman's action are on the public dole as an employee or recipient.

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9Nunya22(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I wonder if all the people who agree with this law thought about how they will conduct this law?

I bet that most the people who agreed with this law probably wouldn't be the one's getting questioned on a daily, possibly getting harrassed about proving they are an american citizen.

Just imagine how many other groups of illegal immigrants that won't get caught since most people think illegal immigrants are only mexicans for some reason (not all). With saying that it depends on how they go about doing this law.

I swear it seems like this country is coming closer and closer to putting chips in us all with the way things are going.

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10beenthere(4 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

300, If you became a Mexican citizen you would never be permitted to vote or hold public office. You are NEVER permitted to protest,demonstrate,carry signs, or voice opposition to the government or you will be jailed and deported. They do not offer bilingual studies in their schools nor do they offer any language (other than their own) in advertising,etc..,. If you live there you speak their language. If you enter their country illegally, you will be,(quote)"hunted down,jailed and held there until you are deported. All assets will be confiscated."(unquote) You can't even live where you want to; some areas are for naturalized citizens only. these are just a few of their immigration laws. Seems to me if everyone spent the same energy to CHANGE Mexico's lousy economy and government corruption,maybe their citizens would want to live there. We are ALL from somewhere else, our ancestors barged in on the Indian Nation.

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11beenthere(4 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Is it legal for a city official to limit the movement of other city employees based upon his/her own political agenda? Shouldn't that choice belong to each individual?

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12beenthere(4 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Maybe I misrepresented myself, for that I apologize I am trying to determine if this mayor has a right to hinder official city business in an attempt to boycott Arizona .Can he legally stop city employees from going there because he is in opposition to their immigration law? (A law that I wholeheartedly support. )Can he impose his own agenda upon city workers? If he disagrees w/ the law is that not HIS personal view/opinion and if so,can he ban city workers from going where they want or need to? It seems to me that this is illegal.

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13city_resident(528 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

beenthere, he's only stopping city workers from going to AZ for city business. If a city employee wants to vacation in AZ, the city shouldn't care, and can't stop them.

Asking for papers after someone has been stopped for another crime, is a bit more palatable. But now I wonder how many brown people are going to get tickets for: jay-walking, going 2 mph over the speed limit, failing to signal, etc.?

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14former_ygal(3 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

To 300


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15paulydel(1607 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Anyone who is stopped in this country for any violation and doesn't have proof of who they are can be held until they show that proof. The police are not going to work asking what area are we going to check papers today. They however will stop anyone committing a crime or traffic violation for proper identification. Like all other countries we have every right to protect our borders. Tough crap if you don't like it. I'm glad that politicians like Coleman days are numbered.

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16Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago


Are you tired of seeing the US government pour billions into US-Mexico Border "Security"? Push for Annexation of Mexico!


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17RobertAlphonso(74 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I applaud the good Mayor. I would never stand for having to "show my papers" in Ohio, I'm glad Columbus won't stand for it either.

This is the most unpatriotic, unamerican law on the books.

All you losers who think its a good idea should read the Constitution.

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18cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

This law makes it possible for a person that might be 10th generation in Arizona whose ancestors were born there have to prove their citizenship every time they leave their home. Ironically they will be proving to the redneck transplants who retired there who's ancestors in comparison just came to America five minutes ago. The only reason they will be asked is the color of their skin.

The posts on this thread just prove that racism is alive and well in the Moaning Valley and in America.

Very sad. :-(

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19TylerDurden(367 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Everybody here has their J.D. and is a con law expert I see.
Teach me more about this whole thing. I beg of you.

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20300(573 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

First of all, there's already a law that allows cops to check ID once someone's been suspected of committing a crime. This is not what this bill is about, it in fact forces cops to check the ID of anyone they suspect might be an illegal immigrant, regardless of whether they're suspected of committing a crime or not.

My objection to this law isn't out of sympathy to illegal immigrants. It's the fact that US citizens will be forced to show ID to prove they're not illegal with a cop's suspicion that they might not be here legally. Who will be "suspected"? The snowbirds, or those with hispanic features?

My point about hypocrisy concerns the fact that I'd guess nearly half of us here have ancestors who came over here illegally. The Irish and the Italians were the prime culprits of this, and looking around it's hard to find anyone who isn't some mix of these. I know for a fact that mine were here illegally, either by never being naturalized (while never obtaining any sort of residency) or by using fake papers. They're dead now, but there are still many Italians who used fake papers for work, and their wives who were simply off the grid who are in their 80s or 90s. Of all people, we should be the last to make any claims of morality.

Ironically, if your family was Catholic, you can now witness what they faced when they got here. Sad that only 3 generations later, their descendants are doing to same to another group.

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21SkyKing310B(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

@City_dweller- Here's a few facts from the LA Times the demonstrate you are full of crap-

From the L A. Times
1 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes.
This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7... The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L.. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.. (There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County .)

(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare. Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth (and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens .

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22SkyKing310B(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

@Cambridge & 300- here's a little history for you-

"Burgeoning numbers of illegal Mexican immigrants prompted President Dwight D. Eisenhower to appoint his longtime friends, John Cox and General Joseph Swing, as INS Commissioner. According to Attorney General Herbert Brownell Jr., Eisenhower had a sense of urgency about illegal immigration upon taking office. In a letter to Sen. J. William Fulbright, Eisenhower quoted a report in The New York Times that said, "The rise in illegal border-crossing by Mexican 'wetbacks' (rooted from the watery route taken by the Mexican immigrants across the Rio Grande) to a current rate of more than 1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal Government."[2]

The operation was modeled after a program that came to be termed the Mexican Repatriation, which put pressure on citizens of Mexico to return home during the Great Depression, due to the economic crisis in the United States."

Quote from Wikipedia "Operation Wetback"

Seems that Once upon a time in America we had a President who had a set of balls and took his oath of office to protect our borders seriously.

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23SkyKing310B(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

@Cambridge- since you are from CA, here's a little tidbit that ought to really make you proud-

Windfall Tax on Retirement Income

Adding a tax to your retirement is simply another way of saying to the American people, you're so darn stupid that we're going to keep doing this until we drain every cent from you. That's what the Speaker of the House is saying. Read below...............

Nancy Pelosi wants a Windfall Tax on Retirement Income. In other words tax what you have made by investing toward your retirement. This woman is a nut case! You aren't going to believe this.

Madam speaker Nancy Pelosi wants to put a Windfall Tax on all stock market profits (including Retirement fund, 401K and Mutual Funds!

Alas, it is true - all to help the 12 Million Illegal Immigrants and other unemployed Minorities!

This woman is frightening.

She quotes..' We need to work toward the goal of equalizing income, (didn't Marx say something like this?), in our country and at the same time limiting the amount the rich can invest.' (I am not rich, are you?)

When asked how these new tax dollars would be spent, she replied:

'We need to raise the standard of living of our poor, unemployed and minorities For example, we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in our country who need our help along with millions of unemployed minorities. Stock market windfall profits taxes could go a long way to guarantee these people the standard of living they would like to have as 'Americans'.'
(Read that quote again and again and let it sink in.) 'Lower your retirement, give it to others who have not worked as you have for it'.

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24SkyKing310B(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

@Tyler- In answer to your question-

Here's the ruling from the US Supreme Court-

United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, 422 U.S. 873 (1975), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court, which held that the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution does allow a roving patrol of the United States Border Patrol to stop a vehicle near the United States–Mexico border and question its occupants about their citizenship and immigration status, when suspicion that the occupants appear to be of Mexican ancestry, combined with other articulable facts. Except at the border and its functional equivalents, patrolling officers may stop vehicles only if they are aware of specific articulable facts, together with rational inferences therefrom, reasonably warranting suspicion that the vehicles contain aliens who may be illegally in the country.

Looks like on the surface, the Arizona Law meets Constituional Muster. If Mayor Coleman doesn't like it that's TFB!

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25SkyKing310B(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Thanks Paul- if you read the case referenced above, I don't think they have to remove the racial profiling provision.

It appears the Supreme Court is ok with that within certain limits.

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26SkyKing310B(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Yep, She's Cambridge's Rep. I hope they keep her back in CA after the Nov. elections!

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27SkyKing310B(315 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Paul, I believe the quote was part of a story in the LA Times regarding the illegal immigration problem in CA.

Now you know why she wants to make them citizens so the Socialists can count on their votes at election time just like they ALWAYS KNOW THEY CAN COUNT ON MAHONING COUNTY TO BLINDLY KEEP VOTING FOR THEIR CANDIDATES!!!!!!!!!!!

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28former_ygal(3 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

TO 300

I now live in Arizona & you understand this so well. You try to educate people of the injustice, but they can't see beyond their predjudice.

Oh, and by the way for you bigots...
I am white & an American citizen.

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29RobertAlphonso(74 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Getting tough on Illegals only makes you tough if you follow the Constitution. If you spit on the law of this great land in favor of pleasing your constituency then you are unamerican. Gov. Brewer and all the cowards who voted for this bill need to be thrown in jail.

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30cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

SkyKing....You posted all this information from an article in the LA Times in your post #33. How about providing a link to the article. I would be interested I reading it.

As far as what goes on in California, I wouldn't think of living anywhere else.

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31cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

SkyKing....Snopes.com seems to call BS on the article you refer too in your post #33.

They stated: "some versions attribute the statistics to a retired San Diego police officer".

It's really not that hard to research something before you pass it on as fact. I see things all the time that I could post to make a point, but if I'm not convinced that the information is true I wont post it.

A lot of people have their own agenda and just because someone posts something on the Internet doesn't make it true. Just because you want it to be true doesn't make it true.

I could post something from a left wing blog just as easily but I choose to use reliable news orginizations and sites like Snopes or FactCheck.


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32cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

SkyKing....Your claim in post #35 about Pelosi wanting a windfall tax on stock market gains and retirement income also seems to be BS. Your batting a thousand.


In your post #41 you claim that Pelosi wants to make illegal immigrants citizens. What is your basis for that statement? Please provide a link that shows a quote or video of Pelosi making that statement.

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33dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I think this is CRAZY!!! All of it! Illegals should NOT be in the US! I think that everyone should have to carry a form of id to prove they are a citizen or a legally here! I mean come on, everyone who drives has to have an id proving they are allowed to drive! Those who don't then they get in trouble. Should we do away with driver's license? How come people get mad about what AZ is doing? Have you looked at other countries and what they do to people who are in thier countries illegally? Check that out first before you all start complaining! I know when I traveled out of the US, I need proper documents in order to do so. And I was asked to show them many different times, by many different people. Why should people coming her be reqiured anything less! They come here illegally and get free health care, no taxes, and all the rights! Make complete sense!

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34300(573 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand here. If the law required everyone to carry ID, I wouldn't be against it. But that isn't what it says, and regardless of the PC addition of race not being allowed to be used as a determinant isn't realistic.

This law requires cops to check the status of those they suspect may be illegal. It could be in a park, on the sidewalk, at the mall, at a bus stop, etc.; all places that under current laws one needs no ID. I'm in support of a national ID card, but I think I'm in the minority.

Also, when you're abroad, I wouldn't suggest showing your passport to "many different people." That's how you get robbed, other than customs/police/hotel, you don't show your passport to anyone else.

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35cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

USEless1....Is that you posting as Youngstown1969?

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36Cowboyfan(105 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I will also be boycotting Columbus. I go to the Ohio State Fair every year and stay one week. This year I will stay home.

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37northsideart(111 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

It's a good thing that Columbus doesn't have this sort of jurisdiction over Ohio State University. After all, the national championship game is being played in Arizona this year. If Tressel and the boys make it to that, will the mayor be an honest buzz-kill and not support the trip, or will he be a hypocrite and let it slide? It's a no-win situation.

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38Jake(112 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

The mayor of Columbus is a hack. AZ's law mirrors federal immigration law. The difference is, they intend to enforce it.

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39Nunya(1356 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Lets take off the gloves and blinders,..

The ones here exposing their gullible ignorance that's being manipulated is profound and pathetic. Via various factors they don't know a thing about what they're talking about in neither the small nor big picture.

See the twisted hicks proclaiming to now be boycotting Columbus. Your boycotting any region in the small area you habit wouldn't matter a and Columbus won't miss you a bit. In fact in regards to social continuity your absence will be greatly appreciated.

The idiots proclaiming to be boycotting Los Angeles, San Diego, Seattle, Austin Texas
and Columbus you're the most insignificant of all. You've likely not been as far as having seen Akron outside of the Y-Town area.

You're clowns that are best served remaining quarantined in your quandary of quackery.

Those illegals were lured over here by under the table jobs. Jobs that's been facilitated by republicans that reveled in being able to enslave the illegals for pennies on the dollar. In deliberate efforts to bust unions, operate by slave labor wages and huge profits to get filthy subvert the wage scale and tax table rich.

Which was a subversive business plan to fleece the communities, work force and local, state and federal taxation. By not paying the American employee a fair wage nor offer health benefits nor pay taxation on unemployment, workmans comp, vacation pay for the the illegals labor either.

John McCain and every other loser has fought to never let immigration reform to ever come to a vote to stop their illegal immigrant enterprise.

See along with having sold American labor out for ages. They didn't care about also summonsing the Mexican drug cartel trafficking their illegal drugs and border crossing bag men along that very same pipeline.

Now they want to declare war on Latino's and others because they no longer manipulate their vote. So they seek to create chaos as to intimidate those of legal immigrancy to cast their support for whom was fine with manipulatively enslaving them.

Just so happened by that well known ploy that's backfired in an economic crash that's the worst in history that the republican " rob em all " agenda created. Which has now brought about a resounding awareness and intolerant acceptance and unity of the national electorate to have voted them out of empowerment.

So in their lust for power desperation they've now resorted to mounting an array of atrocious color line acts of desperation. That's geared, devised and directed to trying to play upon the minds of the caucasions to re-embrace racism to play to exploiting a historic vulnerability that's dwindling.

Solely to treacherously fleece, fool and figment another chance at doing what to us all. Exactly what we've seen and are living through what they've so indefensibly done in an 8 year reign of Bush and Cheney brand of mass fleecing monarchy.

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40ront(119 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

i am the grandson of immigrants.

i remember my father telling me when he started school, his mother, my grandmother, told him; you will go to school, you will learn english. we are americans now.

if the mayor of columbus feels the arizona law is so unjust, invite all the illegals to move to his city.

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41cover2(27 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

We are all ancestors of immigrants some legal some illegal but this is a different time and world. With so many wanting to do harm to Americans we as a country need to filter out suspected illegal's Hey go through what all of our legal ancestors went through and we will welcome you with open arms, come in illegally and we send you back, very simple. Most people that oppose this law have their heads in the sand the U.S. border with Mexico is 2200 miles long it is a 24/7 365 job patrolling it. Its the equivalent of driving from Youngstown to Phoenix Arizona how many illegals do you think could pour into this country daily? We are not just talking Mexicans, any countries illegals can cross over. Arizona is being invaded and I don't blame them for wanting to quell the tide. Why would any legal American oppose this?

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42Youngstown1969(11 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

PenguinBird's calling McCain a loser not a war hero? Wow this coming from a guy who lives in his parents basement and graduated from Rayen High School 322 out of 300 people in his graduating class.

McCain pathetic? I don't think he's sweating what some clown living in his parents basement in Youngstown thinks about him.

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43Youngstown1969(11 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Pitful? They're right on, and obviously getting to you.

At least I don't have to make things up about you, everything I say is a fact.

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44Youngstown1969(11 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago


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45cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

USEless1....I notice you haven't answered the question. Are you posting under the username Youngstown1969? Yes or no would answer the question.

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46cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

USEless1.....Thanks for answering the question.

I prefer President Barack Obama. Because he is President of the United States of America.

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47300(573 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Tea Party=Conservative

They were on the wrong side of history then, and conservatives are on the wrong side of history now.

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48Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

This is the United States not Mexico.All this amounts to is mexican illeagal immigrants being used to promote the North American Union modeled after the EU.If you go to the NAAS website there is a picture at the bottom right of the agriculture statistics page showing the Canadian ,Mexican and American flags joined together.

One of my aunts just purchased a flag beach towel for my youngest son and the Mexican and American flags are sewn together on the same side.Former President Bush also signed a treaty with Mexico and Canada in the spring of 2005 some say joining the three nations together .

I have a question for those who either do not see that the illeagals are being used to promote this agenda.

The whole producing your id goes on now in this country and has for as long as I can remeber .That is nothing new.Do you realize that US troops gaurded the border until WW11.Did you know that those who use the excuse of the id thing want to issue national id cards for us all.So I guess it is ok for showing a national id card but not a drivers license or birth certificate?

You also need to understand that these folks aren't citizens so any idiot that would dare to compare this scenario of illegals being persecuted to the Jews of Hitler's day are way out of line.The German Jews were CITIZENS of Germany and they were put in slave camps or gas chambers not returned to their home country.Your arguements are irrational plan and simple.Try to be an illegal citizen in Mexico or Japan or any other country in the world.Can't you folks see any of this?What color is the sky in your world ?If a third of Arizona is made up of Mexican immigrants and even half of them are illegal can you immagine the costs to that state and to the country?

Now for those who can open your eyes and see what is really going on we are entering into the new world oreder that Papa Bush ,Clinton and all the others since have promoted and many before .That order now called Globalism does not have real borders for nations .The nation states are to be a thing of the past and what ties these regions together ?Trade blocks -translation- cheap goods produced with the cheapest labor possible and big brother or the UN watching every move you make.Think London cameras,national id cards ,biometerics already in use and implantable chips.That is the goal in the end to make you a slave.
So you see these folks create problems by not enforcing laws already on the books and then their solutions usually are meant to remove your freedoms and standard of life.Wake up.

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49Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

300 if yuou think Irish folks were well treated in this country you need to reread History.They were equated with dogs ."Irish and dogs need not apply."

Sorry but there was a place in NY where most everybody came to before entering this country as citizens.Oh and while were at it they spoke different languages but there was only one language printed on boxes.In fact they often learned to speak that language called English and their kids did too.Also there weren't many native language interpreters in schools and the students were not only proud of their heritage but they were proud of the new language learned.

As for illegals yeah there were a few but not 10 to 20 million.No way are you going to get away with saying even a substantial fraction of immigration was illegal when compared to legal.That is false.

As for producing ID we all do it now.How else are you supposed to know who is and who isn't legal ? So the globalist answer is to promote or raise from the dead real ID or a nation ID card which would have been unnessary had the globalist controlled govt enforced our laws to begin with.They created the problem by letting them in and now the solution that will supposedly please all sides is the formerly unpopular national id card.This way illegals aren't targeted so the thinking goes because we will all be forced to take them.That folks was the whole id no pun intened to begin with.Real ID failed but I think it will be pushed again soon the same way the national health care was- - -trial ballon under Clinton soon to be a reality.

So you see they (the UN and their ilk international bankers , corporations ie the super rich do not care about illeagal immigrants repeat they do not care about illeagal immigrants.In fact they do not care about you.You are viewed as cattle or the masses or whatever non important fitting term you like .

Again in an attempt to show those who still can't figure out the difference:Illegal immigrants break our nations laws already on the books where as legal immigrants continue the tradition of coming to our nation lawfully.One is not a law breaking crimminal while the other is a law breaker and therefore -crimminal.
That seems fairly straight forward and logical to me .As for anchor babies as I have heard them called if their parents are not legal citizens then one could reasonably argue that neither are the children .That part of the Constitution one can argue was intended for non law breaking citizens.The Constitution is for citizens not for the whole wide world.In such a case one would go to original intent .Once we became a nation of laws the days of just anyone popping in with out going through the process of citizenship were over. In any case if a country no longer has a border which is a major component of a national identity, does that country really exist as a nation or is it something else?Anyone care to speak to what a former country without a border is called ?Just curious.

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50Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I haven't been to a teabag function but have listened to some of it on youtube.What is the problem with what they are saying specifically?

Are they in favor of enforcing our nations laws?Is that what some folks have called sedition?Or is that what the corporate owned news is calling sedition.Logic is your friend.As for the majority of both political parties on a national level are concerned Lou Dobbs refered to them as "the same bird with two wings ".We know what happened to him.I think he is married to an American woman of Mexican decent.

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51ront(119 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

if some think the arizona law is unjust, invite the illegals to live in ohio. maybe next door to you.

i'm sure they would be welcome.

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52300(573 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Bigben, you're right the Irish were treated like filth. That was my point. I find it ironic that 2-3 generations later, the Irish descendants are now doing to the same.

A few things you got wrong, though. Most immigrants never really learned English, their kids yes, but not the parents. Christ, living around here should've taught you that many of the old folks never learned proficient English; especially the wives, since they didn't work they never needed to learn the language.

My point regarding hypocrisy was simply to point out that some of us still have a grandmother who's not entirely legal (even if she has been here for 70 years), and in the Mahoning Valley, many SS#'s were fraudulently given out.

As concerns the bill, I'm against it because of how it treats LEGAL citizens of Hispanic descent. Why should a US-born hispanic need to carry ID at all times to prove they're legal? Not to drive a car, or buy beer, but to simply BE.

The real ambition of all those snowbirds down there is to eradicate Latino culture. Doing away with Ethnic Studies (I got an idea, how about we ignore what JFK meant to the Irish community), targeting teachers with non-American accents, etc. This is an attempt by the snowbirds to force their views on everyone else (don't forget many of those Italians down there are only 1 generation removed from those who supported fascists back in the old country. They never really gave up on their populist beliefs.)

If you support this law, then you should also support carded every Italian/Greek/Serb in Youngstown to prove they're here legally.

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53Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

City Dweller.

Are you saying that U.S. citezens do not have to produce id to prove your citizenship?
You are wrong.I can't legally buy a gun and exercise my 2nd Ammendment right at a gunstore without producing id and undergoing a background check.So you are wrong.

A teacher who wishes to teach in this country must under go BCI/FBI backround checks should they feel profiled too ?Maybe all cictzens should under go those 85 dollar tests so that teachers don't feel profiled.

Try even leaving this country legally to go to Canada guess what you better bring a passport and all those new passports have RFID chips in them and guess what you have to produce to get the passport ?

Profiling.Hmm.Lets see if I have blonde hair but there has been another blonde guy who stole a tv in my area and the cops are looking for someone with blonde hair fitting my description should I feel profiled in a negative way or realize that they are trying to catch a bad guy who looks like I do?

There are fewer blonde guys then Mexican illegals roaming around the USA.Most natural blondes are white.Perhaps I'm being racially profiled.

That arguement makes no sense .
Should I feel that my rights as a white guy are being trampled on because someone who looks like me is a crimminal .Oh yes and all the other white guys who maybe questioned due to this crime.Perhaps we should just let all people steal tvs so that no blonde white guys are insulted or profiled ect.

Most gunfighters had blue eyes so perhaps all people with all different eye colors should have been searched out and questioned when 3 witnesses said it was a blue eyed gunfighter that started trouble and killed the other guy.Maybe equal number of brown eyed and if they can dig up enough green eyed people too so the blue eyed people don't feel profiled.

Oh and even though all the nasty guys from 911 were of mid eastern decent perhaps the airports were correct in checking the 95 year old white women because you never know.

When did reason die?

Do you think the police should let an alleged killer go because the caller who reported it to 911 said it was a black man 5'10" and wearing jeans and a tea shirt and between 16 and 25 shouldn't question folks that fit that description because it would be viewed racial profiling.Maybe the cops should question native Americans, Chinese and White people as the potential suspects
so that no Black men that fit the description don't feel profiled.Do you see how this makes no sense?
How on earth would any criminal anywhere in the country be apprehended ?

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54kuno(1 comment)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

The real question is are laws being broken. If the Federal Govt won't or refuses to enforce the laws what are states suppose to do? Arizona was forced to enact this law by the refusal of the Federal Govt to provide the most basic function of government, protect their citizens. This is not a Left vs Right issue, it's a Right vs Wrong issue. The truth is that the federal immigration law is much more strict that Arizona's. The federal law allows for racial profiling. A federal law enforcement officer can stop anyone at any time and inquire about their citizenship. If people like (300 and hope4thevalley) were really concerned about racial profiling and legal American citizens being stopped than why don't the write their congressman and get the federal law changed!! They don't because Arizona has a Republican Governor and the the President is a Democrat. I didn't see an up roar when then Democrat Governor Janet Napalitano pleaded for the federal govt to send armed troops to the boarder. This problem has not been delt with for many years. Although I am a Republican I was pissed at then President Bush for his lack of action too. American is a land of immigrants that is what makes America strong but were also a nation of laws and those laws have not been enforced for a long time. Finally a Governor, a state has stepped up to protect their citizens. Arizona is just the first state to do this, watch out for other states like Florida to enact similar legislation. I'd like to see the mayor's of Columbus, San Fransico and Los Angeles boycott Florida. No more Mickey Mouse vacations.

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55Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

300 .The parents many of them did learn to speak English or broken English. My buddies who were of Polish decent spoke Polish in front of my brother and myself whe playing cards- -cheaters.lolTheir dad was in a POW camp in Europe during WW11 with my uncle.The guy would shovel the snow shirtless in the winter.He and his wife learned tp speak English as did old Granma first generation Italian who lived next door.I'm not saying she spoke crystal clear .

As to the other nationalities as mentioned previously that island up north saw the overwhelming majority of those folks come legally .I think the scale is tipped way in the other direction with regard to the Mexican illegals.

You can't just be as I have explained that is an illusion.If someone who has committed a crime is white and you are white should you feel racially profiled if you and other whites are questioned for a crime?
As for snow birds - - -I don't like rich snobs anynore than you do .But there is something much larger than that going on. .U.S.

I have nothing against any nationality and I love did I say love the rich heritage the food ect here in our area.

But don't buy into this being what went on in the past .This isn't multi-culturalism as we knew it. It is corporate facism or globalsim.
I know the history of the mills ect.But the owners of the mills ,corprorations ,int banks were the ancestors of the folks in power now and they are internationalists.

As for kennedy he was more than just Irish and I know how their have been many Irish dirt bags like his dad.Jack and Robert didn't follow orders .Jack printed dollars with a red seal signifying it was backed by silver .They were backed by gold until 1933 and after his death the money became worthless paper again.It has no real value .It is only recyled debt created in a computer to be worth whatever the bankers wish it to be at interest .Very unconstsuitional as this is Congress's job.1913 and the creation of the Federal Reserve gave the power of making the money from the congress to the private non governmental banks.This has happened globally .

Back to illegal immigration:

It isn't about a handful of Serbs or Croats coming over it is about millions upon millions coming resulting in the removal of the border and thus the nation.Remember we didn't share a border with Serbia , Ireland ,Germany ,Korea ...Ect

It isn't about snow birds and Mexican illegals ,it is bigger.The illegals are law breakers to be sure but the major bad guys use them to promote the new order.

I am Irish German and Scottish(high lander).My wife is mostly Croation, Hungarian ,with some Irish and Welsh.My boys are Heinz 57.We are Americans first and foremost not North Americans.Our ancestors came the lawfully.

Those who favor the illegal movement misconstrue the lawful movement .It isn't disliking others it is love of country and welcoming those who come lawfully just as we would elsewhere.

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56cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Ben....Your completely missing the point of what is wrong with this law. I'm against people being in this country illegally.

I'm also against people having to prove they are citizens potentially every time they leave their home for the rest of their life only because of what they look like.

American citizens who's family may have been here for many generations.

I understand you don't have a problem proving your citizenship. I think after you had done a few dozen times it might get a little old.

This law is just as bad as when Americans of Japanese decent were forced to live in camps for no reason other than the way they looked.

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57ront(119 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

i am the grandson of immigrats. my grandmother made sure my father and his siblings went to school and learn english. she told him, we are americans now. you will learn english. her and my grandfather learned english from their children. they didn't expect special treatment. so, i am not against immigrants. just the illegal ones.

the arizona law is not targeting mexicans. read the law. if you are stopped for any violation of the law, you have to show id. that is true of anyone stopped. you should read the mexican immigration laws. in mexico, even legal immigrants rights are restricted.

if we allow certain groups to ignore our laws; what's to stop any other group to ignore a law they don't agree with? do you want the country in anarchy?

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58Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Cambridge 1. I'm glad you oppose people being here illegally.

2.)I don't here a plan on how you would move them back or stop more from coming.

3.)Citizenship- - -The differnece between myself and the illegals is I belong here.
I would also state that I believe the illegals are being used to merge the US ,Canada , and Mexico.

4) I have a big problem with a national id card .I repeat I have an enormous problem with a national id card.That is exactly what the sell out globalist owned politicians want.They do not wish for us to be a soveirgn nation of laws any longer so that they can promote the alternative.

A drivers license and birth certificate or social security card ect will and has done nicely.The only reason the real id was pushed back in 2005 was to make all of us illegal and legal take a rfid chip in the card.Most states rejected it.

To circumvent those states that didn't accept real id federal law was passed in which all american citizens wishing to go to canada and Mexico or any other country I believe must obtain a passport with you guessed it a chip embeded in it so your every move could be tracked.It is there as we speak.

So I hope you can see the bigger picture now.They are being used.
Again there is absolutely no difference on this subject with regard to mainstream politicians of either party - - -zero or any major cable news channels .There are some politicians who oppose and some who are for but only a handful.Someone mentioned McCain please he did nothing to stop illegal immigration.

Personally I think we are going to have this North American union whether we want it or not.Have any of you looked at the Super highway pushed in Texas that has died down a little now.Google it and look at what was proposed.

Some of you are stuck on the small view .

As far as the Japanese being unfairly targeted during WW11- yes sir they were.I can try and be objective and say that Pearl harbor was just bombed.

But I don't like what happened to them one bit.What you need to understand was they were United States citizens.

Also I guess some feel like the island up by NY was just a fantasy but I know better because I have studied History.Sorry but where in the world does anyone come up with half the former immigrants of the first half 20 th century coming here illegally .That is pure fabrication.The Serb illegal immigrant (lady in red (orange))that helped the Feds get Dillinger was sent packing.

The legal immigration at the time was controlled going up and down as workers were needed to fill the industrialisation of the country.We are no longer an industrial nation thanks to the sell out globalists bent on taking us to the fake service sector economy which is sinking as we speak.

We don't make stuff and we don't we don't have control of our money thru Congress which is unconstitutional.Sorry that is a fact.We were never suppose to be charged intrest on our own money.

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59redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I think that Amtrak goes thru Arizona. Since we are giving it a billion or so with hopes that it will someday make a profit compliments of "Joe the clown Biden",why not just load each west bound train with illegals and send them over to snuggle with cambridge and the other illegal lovers in fairyland since he does not have a solution* for the problem.

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60Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I ment to say the lady in red was an Austro-Hungarian-born Romanian .She was deported back to Romania despite helping the Feds target John Dillinger.She was "an alien of low moral character."Just wanted to make things accurate.

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61Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago


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62EliotNess_DC(86 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

The alternative to the Arizona/Federal law is anarchy.

1) Don't the cops routinely ID everybody who speeds or runs a stop sign?

2) In Europe my 'papers' were always checked at the border when I was a child going to and from school, and later when I was an adult working in different countries. Why shouldn't the US check them at its borders?

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63Nunya(1356 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago


You're an imbecile,..

If anybody fit's the projection of one befitting to be housed in a basement it's you there dumb dumb.

See if you could manage the get John " Keating 5 " McCain's geriatric dink links out of your Teabagger eye sockets long enough to be taught something,... Now hear this.

John McCain is more of a cancer than any affliction of it that he's medically inflicted with.

See along with having cheated on and even totally abandoned his first wife when she became ill and needed him most.

Long before he became the lying legislator he was escorted into becoming. In his military disservice he wrecked numerous taxpayer purchased aircraft,.. he did for aircraft what you're doing to your lack of sense or self worth.

See he went on and became a POW because he flew out of the air corridor he was assigned and got that craft shot down.

He created such a chaos and liability for those on the mission. That those trying to save him were captured and he's no hero in the least for any of that.

He even sung like a bird in captivity and made propaganda tapes for the Vietnamese. To show his mettle he's routinely sold out veteran support and does all he can to ship other countryman's children to fight conflicts based on lies,..

Even beyond all that and his role in the Keating bank scheme devised to rob taxpayers. He's amassed a record of a historically lying, dishonest, untrustworthy and dishonorable thief.

One of that variety who was carried on a privilege plate via his father. and grandfathers service and connective position,.. just like George W. Bush.

He's inaccurately called a Hero in the media because that's the lie he came in on. Where to tell the truth now would make their press predecessors sound as misleading as the mimes they were,..

Now check yourself and Fong McShame's record, get some sense about yourself and here's to your favoring adorning his dink links over your asymmetric orbital apertures,.. Your ardor can be apathy or aplomb who cares?

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64chrimv(1 comment)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I just moved back to Ohio from AZ after spending the last 4 years there. One of the major reasons I moved back is because I was sick of all the illegals!! I was told that I HAD to learn Spanish due to AZ becoming "little Mexico" by a Mexican working a at AM PM. I have 3 soon to be step sons that have suffered a HUGE educational loss due to the No Child Left Behind Act. Because 60-70% of the children in the schools there do not speak English the system is staggered to the point in which branches of the US government aren't taught until 11th-12th grade. The economy there sucks and mostly due to illegals being hired in at $3-$5 an hour which they send the money back to their families in Mexico. Phoenix tops the nation in rape which 99% of the offenders are Spanish speaking Mexicans that are there illegally, thus when they commit a crime of that nature they get sent back to Mexico. BTW, just an FYI...hospitals, schools, and the state government (welfare) don't report illegals...they give them medical cards, education, and welfare checks. Illegal status was only caught when police would ask for green cards. Close the border and worry about Americans first, then immigrants. We're spending way to much giving them hand outs while most of our people are left to suffer!

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65ohgancpa(3 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Those who say this is a good law don't have a relative who is 1/2 Mexican 1/2 Navaho and gets stopped by the police waiting on the bus in downtown Phoenix to 'prove' he was born and raised in Colorado.

How do you 'prove' you were born in the USA while you are walking down the street?

With my nephew's Navaho heritage it is he who should be upset at all the illegal immigrants who came from Europe and stole his continent.

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66redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

hope4thevalley stated: "And remember who gave you the freedom to say what you like and what you believe in."

Yes, your statement is true but the part you do not understand is that while this nation welcomed foreigners to Ellis island, they came here legally. They also were not automatically put on the dole.

Read chrimv's post again. This is a first hand description of what Arizona is dealing with and not the first time I have read a similar analysis. I doubt if it will sink in for you but it reminds intelligent people of why Arizona has had enough. Wake up already!

Hmmm, I think I hear the Amtrak train.

"""California here I come"""

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67howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Hey everybody, we are not talking about having an ID (driver's license) the law requires that anyone suspected of being an illegal alien have proof of citizenship with them (i.e. a birth certificate or a passport for citizens or a green card or a passport for legal aliens).

1. Do you go around town with your birth certificate?

2. Do you need to have a passport if you have never left or intend to leave the USA?

For the legal aliens this law is no big deal they already have to carry their green card with them and for tourists to carry their passports is a not a problem. Thus, this law negatively affects US Citizens of Native American and Latin American Ancestry by forcing them to carry Citizenship papers all of the time (which is against Federal law).

And to clarify how racist some of the comments are and most likely will continue to be, the illegal immigrants coming into the US through Mexico are made up of people from many Latin American countries not just Mexico, yet virtually all of the negative comments are exclusively about Mexicans!

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68cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Ben,,,,Actually I do have an opinion on how to stop illegal immigration. Illegals come here for jobs. I believe we should prosecute the people and companies that employ them. If the prospect of a job disappears so would the illegals and others would stop coming here.

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69300(573 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Ohgancpa, that's exactly the point I've been trying to make here. I'm against this law because it will target US-born citizens who are brown. Not for speeding, or running a red light, but simply walking down the street.

Legally, they had to add that racial profiling couldn't be used. But, they added that AFTER they passed this bill, and it's naive to believe that race won't play a primary factor.

CHRIMV, please move back to Arizona. We've already got enough low-level, step-kid, transients living here as it is. You belong in the desert, so please go back as soon as you can. Anyone who's been to AZ or FL have seen the types of Northerners who moved down there. The pensioners are obnoxious, but the others usually trash fleeing problems they've created up here. Please go back.

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70walter_sobchak(2713 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

This is simple. We are a nation of laws. The current federal civil law is that only American citizens, foreigners with visas, or foreigners with green cards can be in the US. If you are illegal, you are to be deported. However, the feds do not want to deport because the employers need the cheap labor. Thus, if you can't do something about the supply, you must attack the demand. So, we need to start punishing employers that knowingly use illegals to work for them.

I have no problem with AZ passing and enforcing this law as they are trying to protect the innocent people within their borders. The state is way too dangerous.

Proof of citizenship is required for many things, like voting, cashing or writing a check, renting a car, etc., etc. No big deal.

Hope4thevalley: All rights we enjoy emanate from God, not from govt. Bill of rights are Constitutional guarantees to the individual, placing limits on the govt.

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71howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

My solution for the problem is simple make CEO's criminally responsible for the actions of their companies. If the CEO's know that they risk jail time by hiring illegals, maybe they wont do it.

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72howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Fines alone wont stop the companies from hiring illegals, and we can't afford to raise the fines so much that the companies go out of business as they may also employ legal workers.

Hire an illegal = GO TO JAIL!

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73Nunya(1356 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago


Whats new?

It's been that way forever and by design in Arizona for ages. See the powers that be had a protocol of luring the illegals. For cheap labor, sexual favors,drugs and arms transporting, union busting and a host of other under current activities.

See those Latino's were manipulated as the new face of slavery for profiteering in an array of ways of having them play patsy.

Where the votes of the legal Latino's were swooned via that system and it went on for decades.

Where now it's come to a point of those whom did it has lost control of the charade and the Latino's are being made out to be lawless bandit's that somehow suddenly became a problem.

See I'm not supportive of illegal immigrants of any nationality and federal reform is duly in order.

But I also know whats gone on, whats brought this to be and why, who and whats going on now.

See you can't try to mass manipulate people as pets and not expect how the loss of ownership isn't going to be seen, reviewed and understood who played what part in the ordeal.

There were and are so many employers in Arizona that built their business plans on illegal immigrant slave labor wages and no compensation other than aiding, abetting and funding federal border fugitives.

That it's preposterous to allege those whom trekked across the border to supply the demand did so without cause, reason and a welcome mat.

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74redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Okay, let me be nice and try this again.

My friend cambridge was one of the first to state that just prosecuting the people that hire illegals will solve the problem. Right.... Don't think for one minute that the pregnant senoritas will not continue to cross the border to have their kids and enjoy all the benefits that go with it: free medical, financial assistance, free education etc. Some of the men may go south but a lot of the women will stay.

I still think that since some in California disagree with Arizona just enforcing laws already on the books that my idea of loading up the westbound Amtrak trains with illegals and dropping them off in California would be a good idea.

cambridge, got any spare bedrooms?

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75cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

redvert....I have been consistent with my opposition to illegal immigration. As far as I can remember I was the first person that posted the idea of prosecuting employers. That was many moons ago.

If you don't think that prosecuting the employers is a solution to the problem fine, that's your right. It's also my right to think it is.

But somehow you read my post and come to the conclusion that illegals should be sent to California to "snuggle with cambridge and the other illegal lovers in fairyland since he doesn't have a solution for the problem."

I don't recall you ever offering a solution. Every time i dead a solution from some redneck it involves spending hundreds of millions of dollars to either round up and deport or imprison ten million people or spend as much to patrol the borders. The very same people can just buy a plane ticket to come in as a tourist and never leave.

The threat of prosecution doesn't cost a dime. Business owners are interested in only one thing. Their bottom line. Prosecute a handful of employers and the rest will abandon the use of illegals as labor.

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it before but I'll tell you again. My post don't need any interpretation from you or anyone else. I"m capable of expressing my thoughts without you posting what it means or what I think.

You should just stick to posting what you think and avoid posting what I think because you are pretty much wrong every time.


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76redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Si Amigo, you just enforce laws that are on the books as Arizona is trying to do. By the way, terrorists can come across that border just as well as Mexican illegals. Yes, the Canadian border also. Perhaps we need to be a little more proactive there also. Every other country in the world guards their borders, why not us? Course these illegals are also sometimes referred to as undocumented democrats. I am sure your boy has long range plans there also.

Okay I have explained how I would handle the situation, enforce laws that are on the books and I might add, put Sheriff Joe in charge of locking up the illegals.

Now, how would you handle the problem you have in California with the drain on your tax base caused by the illegals because they will continue to come into California for the free medical, schools etc. Your turn!

By the way, in my first post I put an asterisk next to the word solution just to show my statement was intentional to get you to chime in since I knew what you would say. Hey, it is fun to joust with you from time to time.

I am off with the Nova to a car cruise up in Lordstown so I will check back in tomorrow.

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77Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

The illegals come for more reasons than jobs.Jobs by the way that Americans will and do.

Other reasons:Drug dealers,Welfare...Bank America was handing out credit cards to help them get settled in .So it isn't only jobs but that would be bad enough on its own .Those folks do not need to be exploited either.

As far as holding the employers responsible -sure why not I'm for that too.
Those same rich folks I'm mentioned earlier sure like their cheap labor though.

As mentioned earlier the US Govt. needs to be a part of the solution to date they have spoken about waving the magic wand and making them instant Americans.I don't think we should reward criminals.

To the gentelman who posted about illegalls not needing to carry around id.Well my answer is they won't that is how you post return to the sender on their ticket back home.

The Fed Govt border policy of recent years involved jailing two Mexican American border guards who believed they were going to be fired upon by a drug dealing illegal.Result a butt shot illegal and two honest working American patriots going to prison.I guess drug dealers are welcome across the border- - -so much for the war on drugs.

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78Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Howardinyoungstown - - -Yes you need a passport to leave the country and it will have an rfid chip embedded in it which is not good.

The more traditional forms work just fine.

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79cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

ben.....As far as who the illegals are, I believe the vast majority are just regular people looking to work for a better life.

I also believe the only people that want them here are the employers they work for. I've never heard a statement from anyone that said, "I sure am glad people come into the country illegally."

I also haven't heard anyone from the government say they want them to become instant citizens. Every politician I've heard of has the same lame plan about them paying a fine and getting in some line and some other BS. That is the worst thing the government can do because it will just encourage more people to come here illegally. It's not just Obama. McCain, Bush and every politician I've ever heard a plan from has the same one.

As far as those border agents, they went to jail under Bush's administration. When asked about it during his campaign Obama said if he became President he would free them, so Bush commuted them on his way out the door.

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80Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Cambridge they weren't commuted but released.

The illegals -Some folks are looking for a better way of way life but they are criminals in the process.The bank robbers were looking for a better life back in the early 1930s and the big banks were evil but they still broke the law and were criminals.

I agree with you on the every administration being guilty of allowing the illegals in and doing nothing about it.Regan ,Bush senior and Junior ,Clinton and Obama.

Like I said both parities are bought.

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81cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Ben....Fox News says Bush commuted them.


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82cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Hey dudy.....If you don't like what I post don't red it.

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83margarita(19 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

OH bull! Our law enforcement people have every right to protect our borders! All this talk about racial profiling is cr..
You bleeding hearts are crazy! Send the ILLEGALS back from whence they came......! They can apply for a visa in a lawful manner. What is wrong with following the law????? I would bet that 90% of the ILLEGALS are Mexican. That's not racial profiling....thats a fact!

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84trickydick1978(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I was born in Ohio and now live in Texas. I'm planning a trip for a reunion with family in Ohio over the 4th of July. Luckily I'll be close enough to Pittsburgh so that I can stay there. Wouldn't want to give any state my money that supports illegal aliens,drug runners and murderers.

Retired U.S. Air Force

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85redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

cambridge said that the illegals could just fly in as tourists and never leave. Somehow I do not see Jesus and 81/2 month pregnant Conchita applying for passports and boarding a plane to get here. Course I must not be the creative visionary that cambridge is or maybe I have not recognized his sense of humor.

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86cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

redvert....57% of illegals are from Mexico. The rest are from some place else. 45% of illegals came into the country on visas and fail to leave.



To focus on fruit pickers is a failure to see the bigger problem of illegals in this country working at high pay technical jobs at a cut rate and no benefits. Jobs Americans would love to have. Silicon Valley is notorious for using techs. from India and Asia in their facilities. Do actually think these companies keep track of the visa status of their employees or even care?

You need to get past your personal prejudice against Mexicans and try and see the big picture because the problem is bigger than who's cutting your neighbors grass.

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87ront(119 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

i have asked the question before.

if some think it's ok for illegals to break our laws; what happens with the next group who feels a law is unjust or just not right in their opinion? do we allow them the same priviledge?

a good example is taxes. i'm sure few like paying taxes. what do they do the the ones who don't pay taxes?

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88Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago


You are correct.I was thinking that they were not pardoned by Pres Bush so that although he let them out of prison he didn't officialy absolve their (according to his point of view )wrong doing.Good job on keeping it accurate though with the term I appreciate keeping things accurate as well.

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89Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

You make it pretty clear.Palb,Redvert and ront raise good points.The average illegal from Mexico isn't flying in they are tresspassing across ranch land and in some cases crop land and thousands of them coming across are destroying the lively hood of hard working rual Americans.

Cambridge it isn't just about whose cutting your neighbors grass true but that is part of it.Those tech jobs you mentioned seemed to be going overseas too.Even the green jobs like manufacturing solar panels for example can be made elsewhere and if the past is a good indicator of future actions they probably will be.These were sold to us as jobs that couldn't be shipped over seas.What would prevent the globalists from doing so ?So horrible trade policies are to blame too .But how we got here is a part of the problem the other part is doing something proactive.

Waiting for the Federal Govt to do something to stop the big corporations from highring illegals is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.The banks and corporations are the very folks who own politicians who look the other way at best or encourage it .Finally we have a state standing up and doing something about this and I applaud them for it that is the American way.

People have a right to be upset we as Americans have seen our country go down the toilet over the last several decades.I was a kid when it started but as I have grown it has gotten worse.We don't want to be a third world nation with a handful of wealthy bank owned corporations and insurance companies at the top and the rest of us begging for scraps off the table.That is why folks took up the cause to guard that border and that is why Arizona is rising to the occasion .It isn't about disliking Mexicans or other Latinos .I do have something against them breaking our laws and being part of the problem of our borders being erased.Because quite frankly no one has addressed what you call a country without borders.Is it still a country or is it something else ?

Can you imagine what would happen to Americans who decided to over run Mexico and destroy their fields and compete at cut throat wages with Mexicans.I don't think any country would allow that kind of anarchy to take place .Once a nation's : laws are ignored , borders erased , national language threatened , the economy in bad shape , devalued currency, more than a few corrupt politicians at the Federal level and that country doesn't even print its own money but a private bank does and then has the audacity to charge intrest so that the principle is never touched - what do we call that ?

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90Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Agreed USA1 and well stated.

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91redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

cambridge said "You need to get past your personal prejudice against Mexicans"

I like Mexicans, they pick vegetables and open restaurants!

Nice dodge on the supposed percentages of Mexican versus other illegals. Didn't know they had all been counted. I did think this whole thread was about Arizona's policy dealing with illegal Mexicans. Pardon me for being mistaken.

Still stick with my earlier statement that Jesus will not be coming by plane.

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92Nunya(1356 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago


Ohhhh No,..

See what Cambridge did was in flow of discussion. Gave you facts and figures that obliterated what you were trying to allege.

So with your having no like mind or kind of educated premise, pretense or platitude to counter.

YOU ran via having no other alternative other than having to admit you were / are wrong.

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93Nunya(1356 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago


See where I'm against illegal immigration. But unlike you I'm more in lined with Cambridge being that I / we're not prejudicial for nor against any race or gender.

Where since you are and are so affixed on Mexican immigration law. As if to you the Mexican's / Latino's are the only culprits you're trying to focus upon.

Have you ever pondered applying for a Mexican, Canadian, Nordic, Chinese, Korean or Baltic citizenship or a visa?

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94redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Nunya, how long did it take you to look up all those words to see if they might look impressive? Well, I am impressed,

This thread has to do with Mexican illegals, not other illegals. Go back and read the original article. You may think that the primary reason for the Arizona law was due to a influx of Chinese (just a guess, no data to back up my guess) into Arizona, I may be wrong but I don't think so. So you can try all this fluff crap you want to make your point and support cambridge's statement and that is fine but my guess is that even some of your fellow libs know your doing a tap dance. Of course I understand that they will not acknowledge it.

Do you have as much fun on these threads as I do? Probably not!!!

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95Nunya(1356 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago


Here's some pointers,..

For starters it's a common trait among the uninformed and uneducated non intellectuals. To laughably try to hail your lack of any command of the English language as a fault of those who do possess it,..

See via your thought process any diversion will do and intelligence is hailed by those like you to be a point of inflection as to divert others to not note you lack it.

It's not novel, effective, enlightening nor empowering,.. LMAO !!!

Where another pointer is you're telegraphing your fluster that you possess via your inability to make let alone prove a point,.. and your alleging to enjoy that is disingenuous.

The last pointer is your subscribing to the talking point's of inferring " lib's " as a tag-line moniker only further exploits your lack of independent grasp and depth.

Now how long will it take you to learn that?,.. I'm teaching you and the least you can do is show an ability to learn.

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96redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

We are in the midst of a super being.

Nunya, you are comical as hell.

While you chastise me for using my abbreviation of "lib" for liberal as a lack of independent grasp and depth you use the term "rudypoot56" Explain in little words that us "cons" can understand why that would not be a "lack of independent grasp and depth" on your part"

Be patient, we are trying to learn.

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97stoutmaster(29 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Has anybody read the bill? I expect to hear a lot of no's, especially from 300. The police cannot walk up to anyone standing around at a bus station or at a park out of suspicion of being illegal because of the way a person looks. They have to be caught doing something illegal first like peeing in the park or stopped for a traffic violation. After asking for ID, the police can call ICE if they have a reasonable suspicion that they are in the country illegally to verify whether they are illegal or not. Nothing wrong with that, period!!!

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98ront(119 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

senator schumer and senator coryn have a proposed a new law forcing prepaid cell phone companies to ask for, and keep records of people buying prepaid phones.

the reasoning is the use of prepaid cell phones by terrorist, drug dealers, and criminals of all types..

what's your opinion

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99howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

AlwaysHope (149) A regular ID (driver's license) wont work, you have to have proof of citizenship (birth certificate) or of legal status to be here (green card for resident aliens or a passport for tourists and students). Do you carry those around with you every day?
If you are a third generation American citizen by birth who just happens to be a person of color (Latin) should you have to carry those documents everywhere you go in case someone asks you to produce them, for fear of being held for who knows how long until and if the authorities can verify your claims of citizenship.
Check out this story that happened this month http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05...

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100howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

rudy56 -- It was the local police who arrested him and who suspected his papers were fake and called INS and Homeland security on him, yes the Feds screwed up, but so did the locals.

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101redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Howard, when the legitimate citizens of Mexican descent in Arizona get tired of being checked they will begin to report the illegals and pretty soon the problem will be taken care of in Arizona. When that happens the rest of the red states will follow suit. The blue states will continue to whine!

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102blkpride(186 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Since our Director of Homeland Security and ATTY Gen have yet to read the law, I doubt the Mayor of Columbus has either. It mirrors FEDERAL law!!!!!! I guess Columbus will quit all travel to DC?!?!?!!?!???!!?!?!?

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103blkpride(186 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I guess it is time to spend my hard earned money in PA. Time to boycott Ohio !!!!!!! It is a 2 way street. I will do all my business in PA and encourage others to as well.

By the way, I wonder if LA still gets their electric from AZ? Hmmmmm, I bet they still do!!!!!!

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104ELVISNIXONdotCOM(10 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

How Obama Voters "Honor" Memorial Day:


(Please forward as this will NOT be seen on network television, nor the Youngstown Vindicator nor the LA Times/NY Times)

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105espnlooop(27 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

In the new United States of Obama, illegals have more rights than citizens. There's that change we were all lookin' for!

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106Nunya(1356 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago


I find your disguise Hilarious,..

It's as if you felt you were summonsed to a gathering. Where of all the attire to adorn, you wore a costume that's abundant with faux fur, pleather covering and even totally the wrong size and fit.

You go boy,..LMAO !!!

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107Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I think most all states ask if you are a legal U.S. citizen .I would be curious to know those which don't .I'm not being arguemenative on this point I would really like to know.

If police pull drivers over and they have fake licenses then an officer can run the license and plates to autneticate them.

I would think a birth certificate would do for those folks traveling on foot.

Unsolved crimes-That is true there maybe some illegals that will not come foward to report crimes.I would say that is something that can be tolerated .Lets face it if they weren't in our country then they couldn't report the crime either and they do not belong here.One could also argue more illegals commit crimes than report crimes.

"What makes the law heinous is that there is a clause that allows for people to turn law enforcement officials/agencies if they feel that agency is not following the law to the fullest extent possible"- - - - -We already have that option and where it goes is up to the courts.

laws :

Anyone can turn in a ploice officer for not following the laws ."As for [F]ollowing the law to the fullest extent possible " ... and how "vague" the law seems- it pretty straight forward as you have it posted.It sounds like it has teeth.

I wouldn't mind seeing that clause posted in context so we can all see it

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108howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

BigBen --- here is some info on the law and what ID will satisfy it.

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109Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Thanks howardinyoungstown.

It seems like a drivers license will do as would the other forms of id mentioned in the article.

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110howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

BigBen a driver's license will do if it's from Arizona, but most likely will not if its from another state.

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111steelwagon(284 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

No matter what side of the immigration debate you favor every American should be outraged by the actions of our president and congress for their reactions to Calderon's address to congress.

To allow that corrupt s.o.b. to bash this great nation without challenge is bad enough but to give him a standing ovation for it should have been enough to make every American sick.

Do any of you truly believe that those out of touch self serving fools in congress actually give a damn about the lives of the poor or disadvantaged people of any country including our own ?

And when are we going to say "enough"of our presidents apology tour.
What has his pandering done to benefit this country ?

The thing that should anger Americans most is neither our president or congress had the stones to ask Calderon what he has done to help and benefit the lives of his own people.

Make no mistake while Mexico has made untold billions from her oil wealth the life of the average Mexican citizen has not improved nor has their standard of living gotten any better.

Perhaps that explains why so many are willing to risk their lives and the lives of their children to enter the United States by any means possible.

While Calderon and his cohorts live a lavish,comfortable life his people are living in diease,filth and crushing poverty to say nothing of the dangers they face daily from an out of control crime rate that threatens to spill over the border into the United States.

Yet this man had the gall to stand before our own president and congress to admonish this country for not doing enough for his own people ??
So sadly and shamefully not a single word was said in defense of America .

Perhaps Mr.Calderon needed to be asked what his posistion on illegal immigration into Mexico is.
He should have been brought to task on what happens when someone from Guatemala is caught crossing into Mexico without the proper documents and permission.

In the post 9/11 world I can not understand why there is any question about securing our borders and demanding our immigration laws be enforced to the letter.
That simply makes sense in the dangerous world we live in.

And what about the cost if illegal immigration to the American tax payer ?
How much more burden can be placed on hard working Americans ?
Apart from the security risk an open border poses Americans can no longer afford to feed,educate,house and provide free medical care to those who violate our immigration laws.

I have no problem with anyone wanting a better life as long as those comming into our country are willing to do so in a legal manner.
If you wish to adopt America as your homeland then it's you who have the obligation to learn our language and customs,not the other way around.

America has done enough for the world.
It's time our leaders stand up and do what's best for the American citizen for a change !!

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112howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

For all of you parroting the rhetoric about there being so much violent crime caused by illegals aliens in Arizona and along our Southern border, I suggest you read this article and learn the facts.


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113redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

This story is written by Martha Mendoza!!! Biased, I don't know. I also know that with the correct data set you can get any statistical conclusion you want. I would tend to believe Americans that live along that border more than just a story. Of course I will admit that comparing the border to the dirt bags in the inner cities helps your assumption. Wonder where some of the scum in places like Chicago came from?

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114howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Redvert -- By the same logic, I can dismiss virtually every employee of FOX News. Unfortunately that gets us nowhere in solving the issue at hand or understanding the others position, thus making it very difficult to find some common ground to use as a basis for negotiating a solution.

1. We all agree there is a problem with our current immigration laws, and the lack of consistent enforcement of them.

2. We all agree that in this current climate of global terrorism that a border that is permeable by illegal aliens is an open invitation to possible terrorist activities.

3. We all agree that the media on both sides distorts the truth to earn points with their core audience.

4. We all agree that virtually every elected official in Washington DC has no interest in changing the status quo.

What other things can we find that we have in common; so that we can work out some viable solutions to force our elected officials to actually do something for the people!

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115pepe(4 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

If i lived in Columbus you sure in hell would not get my vote.

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116cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

howard.....You have to just laugh at people like redvert who will not consider the Associated Press credible because the reporter has a Hispanic name.

Recently Rudy proclaimed that FactCheck isn't reliable either.

The reason that they are unreliable for these neo cons and their small minded friends is that the facts don't match up with their delusions.

These teabagger types have their agenda. You could post all the proof in the world and if doesn't match their agenda they are going to dismiss it.

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117Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

It shouldn't matter if the license is from out of state so long as that state ensures that they require proof of citizenship .That is why I asked if anyone knew of any states that did not ask that question.

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118redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

howardinyoungstown wrote: Redvert -- By the same logic, I can dismiss virtually every employee of FOX News. Unfortunately that gets us nowhere in solving the issue at hand or understanding the others position, thus making it very difficult to find some common ground to use as a basis for negotiating a solution.

In point number three you state that media on both sides distort the truth. If you really felt that way, why did you not include the alphabet networks plus CNN in your original statement. Were you trying to earn points with your core audience?

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119howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Redvert, I meant ALL American media but most especially those that openly declare there left or right affiliations. I get the most unbiased reporting on American politics from international sources such as BBC News and www.dw-world.de/ . I find their reporting on American politics to be balanced as they are trying to explain it to people in the UK or Germany that aren't living with it day to day, and they aren't trying to pander to an American audience.

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120redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Well Howard, so you don't think the alphabet and CNN networks are openly biased, well no problem, you are entitled to your opinion.

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121cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Hey Rudy.....Are you actually saying that FactCheck making a correction makes them unreliable? That's some pretty twisted logic even for you.

I would rather use a source that would correct anything they said in error than someone like yourself that would lie about what the health care bill states even though the bill itself is posted and the sections you lied about were posted word for word and you never admitted your lies.

That's why you never provide a source for your BS. You post something you heard in the checkout line at Walmart or from one of your little teabagger friends.

You keep rambling on with your delusions and I'll keep providing links that prove your nuts.

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122cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Rudy.....When you make a statement like ""find what I stated on your own" it's only because you don't have a reliable source to back up your BS.

LOL! How am I or anyone else supposed to find something that only exists in your otherwise empty head?

I don't spew "Obamaisms" or any other kind of isms. What I do is post the facts from a reliable source time and time again when you and your neo con friends post the crap you share with each other.

Keep it coming because it's always good for a laugh. :-)

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123Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

As for news sources folks I don't think any mainstream news is going to provide reliable information.Take a look at or google the multi national corporations that at least sponsor or own the cable news channels.

Multi-national corporations like BP ,ExxonMobil ect .If you think the owners of the press aren't going to "report " on what they want and the way they want it reported then you are mistaken.They are globally minded not nationally minded which means they do not care about our sovereignty as a nation only profits and feeding globalization .

See if some of the names of folks from international banks and corporations aren't indeed represented at these privatetly held summits that we are not allowed to hear about while news folks reguarly attend and get their instructions.I find that at least a little odd for a represenative reupublic with so called freedom of the press.One must ask why ?

It may surprise some of you but as mentioned previously the mainstream press and both major parties on the whole with a few exceptions are owned by these entities that direct global politics and thus national politics.This has been the case for decdes but as time goes by a few more folks are waking up to this.

By and large though most will still argue party differences or their favorite major news source as if there are any real differences.

How has the brain washing gotten worse?News was once reported .Now news is completely scripted.Predetermined questions and predetermined answers are created and instead of reporting you get a so called reporter asking a question and then coaching the individual being interviewed to give the desired response before the interviewed person has answered the question.It is odd that the news is even raised in the form of a question rather then reported.

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124cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Rudy....So post a link to one of the original FactCheck reports and point out what makes FactCheck unreliable and then post the corrected version so everyone knows exactly what your talking about.

You are the only person I have ever heard that claims FactCheck is unreliable and biased.

You can call me dumb all you want. I don't care. People that read the posts on this board know who is who.

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125rr5042(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I wonder just what Mayor Colemans idea of "the american way" is when it comes to breaking the law? I was a Dep. Sheriff for 12 years, my oath said to uphold the law. It didn't say anything about as I see fit, or if I agree with it. Whats the matter with these guys?

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126Ben(7 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

The AZ law that everyone hates is 14 pages in plain English that no one outside the AZ Statehouse has read.

It is verbatim US Code Title VIII Section 1325. Federal Law, a law that no one in D.C. seems willing to enforce.

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127Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago


"Federal Law, a law that no one in D.C. seems willing to enforce."- - -No surprise there Ben.They don't want to enforce the boder either.Few know it seems that until 1940 U.S. millitary guarded the border as well as U.S. marshalls.

I saw a recent letter to the Editor that discussed border guarding and said something to the effect that it was inappropriate for U.S troops to be used that way nor should they be used in cities either.
What about when the soilders were sent down to enforce desegregation in the south?Amazing how uninformed the globalists think we are.You have to love articles that end with criticizing the solution being implemented and offering nothing more to solving the problem then to state we need further investigation or more education .No we need to enforce our national sovereignty by protecting our borders and showing the illegals the way home.

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128howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Please read this article from California regarding farms and farm workers.

I have family and friends who live in Mendocino county and I have watched them suffer through the years when they couldn't get enough farm workers to complete their harvest, and a couple of years where they couldn't find enough workers to even start there harvest, and the eventual bankruptcies that followed.

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129howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

They pay $9.00 an hour to pick pears, the problem is it only last for 2 weeks and most Americans, won't get off their butts for only two weeks of work.

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130howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

California minimum wage is $8.00/hr. The rural community of Anderson Valley has even gone so far as to close the high school during the harvest so that all of the local kids can help, but 24 kids and 125 townspeople can't do the work of 450 farm workers.

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131Pyroc(137 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

In 2007, Missouri placed on the ballot a proposed constitutional amendment designating English as the Official language of Missouri. Nearly 90% voting in favor! English became the official language for ALL governmental proceeding in Missouri. It also means no individual has the right to demand government services in a language OTHER than English.
In 2008 a measure was passed that requires the Missouri Highway Patrol and other law enforcement officials to verify the immigration status of any person arrested, and inform federal authorities if the person is found to be here illegally. It allows Missouri law enforcement offices to receive training to enforce federal immigration laws. The bill makes it clear that illegal immigrants will NOT have access to taxpayers benefits such as food stamps and health care through Missouri HealthNET.
In 2009 a measure was passed that ensures Missouri's public institutions of higher education do NOT award financial aid to individuals who are here illegally. The law also requires all post-secondary institutions of higher education to annually certify to the Missouri Dept. of Higher Education that they have NOT knowingly awarded financial aid to students who are unlawfully present in the United States.
So while Arizona has made national news for its new law, it is important to remember Missouri has been proactive in addressing this growing problem.
Missouri has sent a clear message that illegal immigrants are NOT welcome in our state and they are certainly NOT welcome to receive public benefits at the cost of Missouri taxpayers!
Article in "The Ozarks Sentinel" Editorial Opinion - Nita Jane Ayres, May 13, 2010

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132howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I have no problem with Missouri's law as it only applies to those that are arrested, my problem is the subjective nature and vague terminology used in the Arizona law.

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133Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago


Simple economics says that if the illegals weren't here than the legals would do the farm labor .There are lots of legal recent immigrants and not so recent immgrants that can do that work.If the price for labor goes up then the workers make a better living-so there you have it.

There are way way more illegals here than there is work avaible to them.Some of the larger farms out west use machinery now to shake fruit loose so the process is not as labor intensive as it once was.

You have to love the fear tactics and creative scenarios some will come up with to try to convince folks of the absolute necessity to depend on illegals.I mean if the illegals went home there would be no apples ,no fruit ,no nuts,and what about salads.Please life would continue on without them.

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134redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Howard, here is a legitimate question. Please list the examples of subjective nature and vague terminology in the law so we can discuss them.

I have read the law and I find it amazing that there are so many references to abiding by existing federal law yet our leaders in Washington are against it. Wonder why?

For those who may of not had the opportunity to read the text of the law (like the attorney general among others), it is found below. This is in PDF format. If you do not have PDF reading capability, just do a search for Arizona immigration law text sb1070


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135howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Well for one thing its vague enough that when asked by a reporter to describe what an illegal alien looked like the Governor of Arizona either couldn't answer or realized that her answer would make her use racial profiling, she then ignores the follow up question where the reporter asks her if she(reporter) looks like an illegal alien. Watch the clip yourself.

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136Nunya(1356 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Hey Rudypoot,..

You and your lack of thought are the repulsive rot as repugnant remnants that's ruined the area.

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137cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Hey Rudy....Are you really too stupid to know that the photo your talking about was made with photo shop for the benefit of bigots like you who believe that's what the average Mexican is all about.

Only someone who lives in your twisted world wouldn't be able to figure that out.


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138redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

What is amazing is that we have so called Americans that do not believe that we should enforce immigration laws that are already on the books, even though they are more liberal then most of the other countries in the world. Of course if we do not, then perhaps more of the citizens of Spanish origin might vote Democrat.

Yes cambridge, while the Conservatives/Tea Party folks do have a agenda as you have stated which is that we are tired of our taxes being used to support the "gimmie" crowd, the libs also have a agenda as I have given a example of above.

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139redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

"Rudypoot" Nunya, does your mommy know you talk like that? You can't be a adult with childish expressions like that! Or perhaps you just never grew up or are mentality challenged. If the later then your behavior is excusable.

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140cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

USEless1....I have consistently said that I am 100% against illegal immigration. To try and pretend that I am for people being in this country illegally is a joke. I just don't see them as the arch criminals you portray them as.

I have consistently offered what i believe is the cheapest and most effective way to get illegals out of the country. Fine their employers and the job opportunities would disappear and so would the illegals.

As far as my seeing you and redvert and rudy and others like you as bigots and racist is because that's exactly what you are. You and the rest have proved that with your posts on this board many times.

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141howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

USEless1....I have consistently said that I am 100% against illegal immigration. To try and pretend that I am for people being in this country illegally is a joke. I just don't see them as the arch criminals you portray them as.

Thank you to Cambridge for letting me copy your post (modified).

USA1 I have consistently offered what i believe is the cheapest and most effective way to get illegals out of the country. JAIL their employers and the job opportunities would disappear and so would the illegals. But at the same time we must offer a realistic way for migrant farm workers to enter the country seasonally to do the jobs that LAZY Americans couldn't be bothered to do even at $9 an hour or more.

As far as my seeing you and redvert and rudy and others like you as bigots and racist is because that's exactly what you are. If you can't make your point without using racist terminology, you and the rest have proved that with your posts on this board many times.

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142howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Rudy56 in your post (199) you state "An illegal looks like a person who has just been stopped for a crime,or vehicle infraction, and has been asked for some form of ID and can't provide anything!" Yet if you read the law, the officer can not ask for ID unless and until he sees someone that he legally suspects that they may be an illegal.

If the law was written, that when a crime or traffic violation is committed that every occupant of the vehicle and every participant and witness to the crime must provide proof of citizenship then I would be OK with the law, because then there would be no opportunity for racial profiling.

Simple fix make EVERYONE be they WHITE, black, purple, green, or orange carry proof of citizenship, then there is no opportunity for racism.
Of course then Arizona would kill its tourism industry, because as I have previously posted, Arizona will not recognize out of state driver's licenses as proof of US citizenship.

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143howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Redvert in your post (197) you asked me a direct question "Please list the examples of subjective nature and vague terminology in the law so we can discuss them." I provided you with an answer in post (198). In your following posts (203 & 204) you proceed as if I had not responded, Why is that?

You wanted an example of vagueness, I provided you with one. The very Governor who signed the bill into law, CAN'T or WON'T describe what an illegal looks like. If the Governor of Arizona can't explain the law it is vague! So please let us discuss that point.

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144Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

howardinyoungstown - If someone breaks the law or there is suspicion of someone is breaking the law then the autorities can ask for id.It isn't difficult .

Now I have a question .What does a globalist anti American look like ?

If folks are here legally they have nothing to worry about.

I wonder how many have been sent back ?Any stats on that ?It is my hope that other states across the country will follow in the footsteps of brave Arizona.Way to stand up against the weasels in Washington Arizona.

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145howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

what this means is that first the officer must have a legal reason to question or detain, then an only then if the officer suspects that a person/s are possibly illegal then they must ask for proof of citizenship.
I am not sure why you keep saying ID when the law clearly states proof of citizenship, which most forms of ID carried by the average American does not satisfy.

For those that are citizens of the US and for legal residents of the US, the acceptable forms of proof of legal residency are a birth certificate, a United States passport, or an Arizona driver's license issued after the date when proof of legal US residency was required to obtain a license, a valid Green Card. So Bigben do you carry one of those forms of ID with you at all times? Any other form of ID requires that you would be detained until they can verify your status with Federal authorities. Does the average 10-15 year old carry one of those forms of ID?

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146redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Howard, I was waiting for you to provide a couple examples in the text of the law which you did not provide. Instead you provided a clip of the governor not allowing some clown to try to lure her into saying something that could be construed as racist. I commend her for being too smart for that weak attempt.

As you should know, when you speak "off the cuff" it is easy to say something that could be subject to interpretation. Thank god that obowser has his teleprompters, even at his last news conference. Bet he had some fast typing going on behind the scenes. Don't want anymore of those "57 states" comments.

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147Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I keep saying ID because the ID we have been specifying what suffices as proof of citizenship.You can NOT get a drivers license in any state in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to my knowledge without proof of legal citizenship .

Carry a wallet and stick your drivers license in it or your birth certificate or your green card or any other legal proof of citizenship in said wallet.I do it and Iam an American citizen .Are these folks any better than me that they shouldn't have to have proof of their citizenship.I don't throw a fit anytime I purchase a firearm or renew my drivers license .If they can not prove they are legal get them out of our country .Maybe 12 to 30 million illeagals aren't enough for you maybe we should let 100 million or 200 million before the other states figure out that there is a problem.Maybe you like the idea of the North American Union.

I will ask for a third time does anyone know of any state in the U.S. that does not require proof of citizenship to aquire a drivers license?That is a simple and straight forward question .If the answer is no then a drivers license will suffice .If a drivers license doesn't suffice then carry a birth certificate showing you are an American citizen.If you are not and you live in Arizona then you may soon be packing and I am very happy about that.

The difference between folks like you and folks like us is we want the illeagals out and you apparently do not because you offer no alternative way to remove the criminals.I said remove them.

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148howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

So USA1, Bigben, Redvert, and Stan how much are you willing to pay to have someone go an round these 10-20 million illegals, because its not going to happen for free. I don't have the money, my local, state, and federal government don't have the money. Well the federal government would if they weren't spending it on overseas wars, foreign aid to terrorist states (Isreal) and the biggest waste of all the "War on drugs".

In fact if we were to legalize street drugs, tax and regulate them, and eliminate drug crimes from our over burdened judicial systems and penal systems, we would have enough money to pay for drug treatment and addiction treatment programs, and enough left of to start working on the rounding up of and mass deportation of the illegals.

I have stated over and over again that I support comprehensive immigration reform that includes a guest worker/migrant farm worker program. Without that there are a lot of small and medium sized American business that me be forced to close their doors due to overseas competition.

Do you really want it so that Florida and California strawberries and citrus fruits will cost $5 to $10 per pound? Or that the only fresh fruit we get in our grocery stores is imported from CHINA in the summer and Chile in the winter.

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149redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Let us take the welfare and health care expenses we are wasting on these illegals now and that will more than cover it. As USA1 mentioned, let Sheriff Joe house them until they are fingerprinted and deported. He has more stones than all of you bleeding hearts put together.

Oh yes, why not legalize drugs so we can create more junkies on the welfare rolls.

Once again, it is amazing that so many dorks in this country do not want secure borders. Even third world countries have more secure borders than us. Course, it will not be long!

Don't know if it is true or not but I heard that Obowser is going to invite all the illegals to DC so he can apologize to them for the way Arizona is treating them. Then they will all go to California on Amtrak but that is a whole different story.

Ya buddy!!!

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150Buckeye10(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Coleman is an absolute idiot. Coming from the Youngstown area, I never thought I would WISH to have Jay Williams as my mayor, but Coleman makes Williams look about as brilliant as Steven Hawking. I can't for the life of me figure out how this genius keeps getting elected.

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151redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Buckeye10, it is because too many people cannot think for themselves, They blindly vote for whomever the party endorses, same as their parents and their grandparents did. Same goes for the republicans.

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152Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

As has been stated cheaper to round them up than to keep them here.Not even a close comparison.

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153walter_sobchak(2713 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

These arguments are nonsense. Very simply, governments are instituted among men to secure the blessings of liberty. Thus, one of responsibilities of the govt. is to protect the citizens, which the federal govt does not do by ignoring illegal immigration. So, their inaction causes the citizens of one state to take the actions to protect the citizens. We are a nation of laws, made by the people, and they are to be followed by all.

The argument about racial profiling is also nonsense. We are not talking about a massive influx of Swedes or starving Armenians, we are talking about Latinos coming up from Mexico and Central America. It is common sense. Why check a gray haired old lady getting on an airplane when the terrorist were all male Middle Easterner in their 20's and 30's. We have criminals coming into the country causing havoc for the citizens. If an alien is in this country legally, carry a green card. If you are an American and you are detained for some lawful reason, you have a reasonable opportunity to show proof of citizenship.

None of the politicians, past, present, democrat, or republican will do anything about this because they don't want to alienate the large bloc of Latino votes.

Without law and order, there is chaos.

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154JME(802 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago


You say "too many people cannot think for themselves, They blindly vote for whomever the party endorses, .... Same goes for the republicans"

You mean the democrats? Wow, do you have it backwards.

Doesn't the Valley consistently vote "D" every election, even though they don't have a clue about the candidates, or they keep voting for the incumbent even though they complain about the lack of effectiveness regarding these politicians?

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155redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

JME, you are exactly right, I wasn't clear in stating that I was talking about democrats and added that there are republicans that vote blindly also.

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156JME(802 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I agree. I'm not from here but have now lived in the area for about 17 years, and I'm still amazed that the majority in this area assumes voting "D" is the best choice, especially when the results have been negative for 30+ years.

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157redvert(2240 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

One of my favorite sayings pretty well covers the valley situation and supports your opinion.

"When nothing changes, nothing changes"

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158Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Walter I agree .

Create the problem -unprotected border -solution is an rfid chipped national id card .

Simply use the forms of id already accepted as proof of citizenship.It works just fine if enforced.

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159cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

The link below is a prime example why "rounding them up" doesn't work. it's expensive and they just come back. If the employer mentioned in the link is fined or even shut down for a period of time I guarantee it would be the last illegals they hire.

Set the example of going after the employers and the illegals would have no job opportunity and no reason to cross the border.


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160Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Cambridge consider the source of an article.Comon sense tells you it is incompariably cheaper to ship them back.Law Enforcement is avaiable and if not hire some American citizens ,they pay taxes and buy stuff.Problem solved.

Good old Bank of America was providing credit cards to illeagals to help them with moving expenses and to get settled in .Who is paying for those loans (bailouts)?How do you feel about that?

We wouldn't even be in this situation had it not been for laxed border policy .I have an idea why doesn't bank of America and the globalists(international banks and corporations) pay to move them back since they encouraged them to come.

If they get caught coming back a second time ?

HMMM what is the policy for Americans who break the Mexican immgration laws twice?I'll bet there aren't too many Americans that make that mistake twice.

You see a lawyer often trys to use the trick of over complicating that which is otherwise simple .A good judge can see right through those tactics.What if a lightening bolt strikes an illegal in the axx while being transported back to mexico?Should the illegal sue ?Welcome to the theater of the absurd.

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161cambridge(4135 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Ben.....You think it's cheaper to round up ten million people over and over again than eliminating the jobs they come for by the threat of a fine on the employers that hire them.

I disagree.

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162Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Yes Cambridge far far cheaper .The welfare ,free medical,the credit card debt ,the section 8 housing ect. that we all pay is not even in the same solar system.

As far as coming back .What do they do in old Mexico with two time American offenders?How about a chain gang?Have to make things harsh for crimminals not easier.Do you think many illegals wnat to hook up with a chain gang?

As I have told you I have nothing against going after the cororates to prevent them from hiring illegals.but I think they need to be removed as well

As I have explained previously the banks and multi national corps are the folks encoraging the illegal immigration so how do you propose to convince both sides of the isle in DC who are both guilty of colluding with said bankers?In other words the fox is in charge of the hen house.

This is why Arizona has taken action and I applaud them.The Feds want illegal immigration and American citizens have grown frusterated.the same scenario is happening in the Gulf of mexico.Do nothing feds and Bp want the oil spill.The states are taking things into their own hands because comon sense tells them it is the moral and correct thing to do.Same thing with the illegals -time to act.We have had 25 years of do nothing and lip service on this issue and the problem has only grown worse.

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163ohdrama0901(53 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I agree with the Mayor of Columbus because what Arizona is doing is basically doing is "racial profiling". What? Are they going to stop every nonwhite looking person and make them prove that they are a citizen of the US? That is going to cause a great number of lawsuits within itself. Many of you Italians, Germans, Greeks, and other ethnicities forgot how you landed in this country. Your grand and great grandparents however far back, came here in search of a better life. The only and yes I said about the only race who didn't come into the country looking for anything are black people and are still catching hell this very day. This country is filled with so much hatred and disrespect for other races and other cultures and that is why the foreigners are coming here and getting richer because karma is a ***** and the Hispanic race is the fastest race growing on American soil. Funny how Arizona put this new plan into action after the stats came out.

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164Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

In last 25 years of catastrophic illegal immigration there have been no serious efforts to date that targeted employers that have stopped illegal immigration on a significant scale.Why is that ?
Is it because our failed Federal Govt is in bed with the banks and corporations?I would say so.

If that is the case then Arizona is without a doubt on the right path.Aliens from outer space aren't going to beam them up and out of the U.S.

Do you understand that the Federal Govt is not interested in stopping illegal immigration now?It would be refreshing if you would acknowledge that.Rpeat the Feds want to do absolutely nothing about illegal immigration .Thankyou Arizona , the only question is what took you so long ?

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165Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Ah "Many of you Italians, Germans, Greeks, and other ethnicities forgot how you landed in this country."-- - - - - -

You need to look up the word legal in the dictionary and read the defintion over and over until your eyes are on the verge of falling out.

Rest your eyes and then repeat the process until you understand what legal means.Because trying to compare legal with illegal is illogical as saying 2 + 2 = 5.No amount of brainwasing will ever make that a true statement.

The earth was once taught to be flat as scientific fact although it was and is in truth round.So for all you folks who would try to equate illegal and legal immgration kindly stop because it isn't working with us.We still know 2 + 2 = 4.

As for looking for a better life as a reason to over ride the law.A crack dealer is looking for a better life too.Should we look the other way and let him sell to our kids because he is just looking for a better life ?

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166walter_sobchak(2713 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

If you don't think it is possible to have 2+2=5, read "1984" and you will see just how alarming the similarities are to 2010. Orwell was a visionary. You are correct though that there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration, but none of the politicians will do anything about it. They either don't want to anger the Latino voting bloc or they are in the pocket of business that doesn't want to give up the cheap labor. We must start going after the employers of the illegals first. Then, finish the job by cleaning up all illegals since a good portion come to this country to sell drugs and commit crimes.

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167Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Walter-sobchak-That was my point.They may teach that 2+2=5 as fact but there are universals truths regardless of what is accepted as fact.I read 1984 and I think that is being implemented now call it what you will new world order ,one world govt or globalism.

Illegal immigration is only one of the tools being used to push it, an unconstitutional banking system, wars fought under false pretenses and so on.

Voting is not what it is all about .Both parties are controlled by the banksters /multinational corps.Look into it yourself.The massive movement of illegals began under Ronald R continued under Bush ,Clinton ,Junior and now Obama.

The national id card that has been refuted by the states although it is Federal law is known as real id(google it).Since it was a led balloon it will be pushed through pleasing both sides of the illegal immigration debate.Part of problem -solution concept.The globaists want us all to carry chipped rfid cards -national id cards.The current id we have now will satifsy.

Those who may either be ignorant of this, meaning not dumb but never had it explained to them so the pieces come together and the light can go off ,buy the press suggesting that it is about rascism -nonesense.The illegals themselves are being used to implement national id.

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168ysupenguins_com(108 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Hey Colman. You are a lousy mayor, you wife is a drunk & has run someone over. Your city is now one of the nation's top-20 in size (no thanks to you), so you need to be above this. Say I hear that the city of Guadalajara needs a mayor.

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169OhioWatcher(43 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Great Mayor, great city. Proud of Coleman and all that he has done.

His wife is a drunk so he's not qualified to be mayor??

You idiots should take a look at Columbus compared to Youngstown. A lot more people are working down there.

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170JD010101(137 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

So this Mayor is openly stating he will not support and uphold the US constitution. The AZ Law was written to enforce the Federal Immigration Law. He probably has not read the AZ Law just like Barry O and his Lackeys.

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171JME(802 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Columbus is a great city, but it's not because of Coleman. He is an idiot.

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172Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Well said JD.

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173Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I wonder how Coleman would feel about illegal immigration if a few million showed up on his doorstep?

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174ELVISNIXONdotCOM(10 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Speaking of feeling like a stranger in your own land- last night saw TEA PARTY members riot and violently attack police...Ooops THAT story would be HUGE- Obama would have spoken out!

What actually happened is below- you will NOT hear about it at all:


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175Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

As I have always said fact is stranger than fiction.

I remember seeing and I wished I had saved it a video clip of a vietnam vet that got pissed off because the american flag was hung below the mexican flag.He pulled out a large knife and said if somebody doesn't cut that mexican flag down i will.the guy was so upset he was physically shaking.It was very moving .

ELVISNIXONdotCOM-Can you imagine if we went down to old Mexico and behaved like the illegals did here what would happen to us?A couple of local kids I think from canfield years ago were snake hunting along the border.I think they were using a .22 with snake shot.They got turned around and ended up in the wrong place and were detained by the Mexican govt rather unpleasantly.

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176Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

"To afraid of being pulled over."- - - -I know ! Don't drive drunk and you won't be charged with drunk driving.Problem solved.

"My grandparents came here from Ireland illegally" Why?

You must be very proud.Are you sure your nose isn't growing?

" Who were the first people in Arizona"- - -Oh,Oh,Oh I know again-the Native Americans.
Sooo lets all leave and give the whole country back to them.But you go first.

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177justsayin1960(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Hummmm! Maybe a start would be for the US Govt. to close the boarder then enforce the laws on the books already. If they had done that Arizonia would not have had to take this action. And, oh yes, my family came here legally and I undersand why they and the Mexicans and others want to. Just be LEGAL.

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178Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

justsayin1960-Agreed.A little comon sense goes a long way.

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179Conservatism_Will_Prospers(91 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

How dense are our elected officials??? We are talking about illegal immigration that is equal to a pandemic!!! The illegal immigrants that are flooding our welfare systems, school systems, prisons, hospitals and have no consideration for the well being of the USA! They are fleeing from their home country "illegally" and flooding ours with everything that hinders US growth. Instead of taking the required tests to determine weather or not that they can function within this nation and taking the same path as everyone else, these illegals are jumping the line... Do that at Cedar Point or Kings Island and you can find yourself deported to the parking lot!!! This has nothing to do with discrimination but everything to do with with the sovereignty of our nation! We need to get a grip before things become much worse... There are area's of Arizona where cartel members are walking around with fully automatic assault weapons and the police are afraid to stop them! The federal government isn't helping this situation any so.... Mr. Micheal Coleman, why are you contributing to the deterioration of our nation?

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180Conservatism_Will_Prospers(91 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

PS. I am currently working in Canada. Canadian immigrations gave me papers that I must carry with me at all times if I do not want to be detained... Get a grip people, why are we falling behind when other countries are moving forward?

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181Conservatism_Will_Prospers(91 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

P.S. since PenguinBird is so intelligent, explain to me what will happen to the county jail now that the 0.05% sales tax was passed?

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182Conservatism_Will_Prospers(91 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Ok, Normally I do not target peoples point of view on here so this is to all of you who oppose this legislation... Normally I just point out the facts! I travel all over the nation and I actually see the effects of illegal immigration! Most of us in the Mahoning valley would not deal with the effects of illegal immigration so there for we are ignorant of the damage that is being done. If Arizona does not take drastic measures to fix it's illegal immigration issues, the state will become a civil war zone that will spew into the neighboring states. This is a serious issue that must be dealt with. The majority of the reasons that illegals are flooding to the boarder states is due to drug trafficking! Answer this to all of you whom oppose this illegal immigration... If the illegals have nothing to hide, then why bypass the legal procedures???

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183howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

For all those who claim that illegal aliens commit more crimes, please read this article and the study that it was based on.

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