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Warren mother: Officer traumatized my sons



Published: Wed, March 31, 2010 @ 12:10 a.m.

By ED RUNYAN

runyan@vindy.com

WARREN

Police are starting an internal investigation of a mother’s claim that her three young sons were traumatized at gunpoint by a patrol sergeant.

The mother of the boys — age 7, 9 and 10 — filed a complaint Monday with the Warren Police Department against the officer who ordered her sons to the ground in their backyard.

The episode occurred Friday as they returned home from school.

Carolyn Simmons said the boys had walked home from Lincoln “excited to start their weekend,” but Sgt. Jeff Hoolihan “ambushed” them, leaving them “crying hysterically with drool running down their mouth as they convulsed with fear.”

The officer was on patrol near the boys’ home on Sarkies Drive Northeast near the Lincoln K-8 school building.

He thought they might have committed a break-in, according to a transcript of communication between Hoolihan and his dispatcher. Hoolihan told the dispatcher he ordered the boys to the ground about 3:50 p.m., then said the boys reported that they live at that address.

About five minutes later, Hoolihan told the dispatcher to disregard the call, that the boys’ father, Anthony Simmons, had identified the boys as his.

Carolyn Simmons said she first realized something was wrong when she looked into the backyard, expecting to see her boys playing there, but instead saw them “laying face-down in the cold, wet soil of our lawn.”

When she asked Hoolihan what was going on, the officer answered that there had been a “string of burglaries in the area” and that “when the boy saw me, they took off running,” she said in her complaint.

The woman said she told the boys to get up off the ground and go in the house. The boys went in the house and hid under the covers of their bed, lights out, “confused and traumatized ... still wearing their mud-stained clothes,” she said.

Hoolihan never apologized for his actions, Carolyn Simmons said.

Sgt. Jeff Cole, police department internal-affairs officer, said he has been assigned to investigate, but he had not yet talked to Hoolihan and had no other information.

Hoolihan did not return a phone call seeking comment.

Carolyn Simmons talked to the boys later and learned that they had cut through another child’s yard adjacent to their own yard on their way home from school, went to their own front door, then to their own locked rear door, then back to their friend’s home to try to use the restroom, then back home when they got no answer at their friend’s house.

It was on their way home the second time when Hoolihan confronted them, Carolyn Simmons said, adding that the boys told her they never saw Hoolihan until he ordered them to the ground.

Hoolihan ordered one of the boys to remove the black bag he was carrying, the boy gave it to Hoolihan, and Hoolihan searched it.

Carolyn Simmons said her sons are the only black children in a neighborhood that has very few children in general and said that because of their race and age, “they have had many obstacles to endure while living here.”


Comments

1UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Sounds like solid police work to me. The officer did what he should in this situation. For all he knew, the backpack could of contained a gun. Where were their parents when this happened? 7, 9, and 10 years old should not be left to fend for themselves after school. Had the parents been home, the kids would have went into their house, and none of this would have ever happened.

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2jr99(88 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

What a shock: they're playing the race card. Maybe these black parents should spend more time being responsible, and less time blaming white police officers who are there to protect their sorry asses.

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3saysithowitiz(98 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Sounds a little excessive to me, why make the kids drop to the ground? It doesn't say they ran from the officer or struggled with him. There's no mention of any of the boys trying to reach in the backpack for anything. I guarantee this officer would be crying foul if these were his kids lying face first in the mud, same with the two posters before me. I would be too, no matter what the race of the officer, and I am white.

Boys are boys, they run around, cut from yard to yard, trying to find the quickest way from one place to another. I know I did when I was a kid...I was always cutting through someone's yard. I was never assaulted by a police officer as a kid. Even as an adult, when I look back on all the confrontations I had with any police officer, most were polite and understanding.....and I was 100 times more likely to have a gun than these kids. Point is, the officer should be investigated because this whether or not you want to consider this racial profiling, he did use excessive force as described per the Vindy....if I am misinformed about the facts, I apologize, but I am going with what I read in the article.

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4AtownParent(561 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Don't blame the cops because you don't parent your kids.

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5city_dweller(193 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

"Carolyn Simmons said she first realized something was wrong when she looked into the backyard..."

How exactly were these parents not parenting? They were in the house waiting on their kids to get home from school -- or is it bad parenting these days to allow your children to walk a few blocks home? Imagine looking out your window to see your three kids face-down in the yard with a police officer holding a gun on them. I would freak out.

Any child, anywhere can have a weapon, but that doesn't mean the police have the right to treat every child like a dangerous suspect. It is not a police officer's job to treat young boys like violent felons who are ready to return fire.

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6BrothaLove(81 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I am ashamed to share a community with the first few posters here, but not at all surprised at the responses to this situation.

Firstly, like it or not, this is a case where the "race card" SHOULD definitely be "played." This officer was completely out of line. The children in question here are 7, 9 and 10 years old and were walking home from school carrying a bookbag. Are we to assume that black kids can no longer carry bookbags to school — ridiculous.

I certainly don't think this officer did much to shape a good image of police in the minds of these three young black males. Now, the parents will have to work twice as hard to make that happen.

Secondly, and speaking of the parents, these parents were home waiting on their children to return from school and witnessed this activity. How is that not parenting? Both parents appeared on television last night and seemed to be well spoken decent people. For you people to characterize them as anything less is shameful.

What pains me more than anything else is the fact that if these were young white children terrorized and held at gunpoint the public outcry would be much different. I suppose we just haven't come far enough for race or the race card NOT to play a factor in the formation of opinion and that is just sad.

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7Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Well BrothaLove :

"I certainly don't think this officer did much to shape a good image of police in the minds of these three young black males. Now, the parents will have to work twice as hard to make that happen."

Now you have to ask yourself what shaped this officers mind while patrolling in Warren ? Let's enroll him in sensitivity 101 for a week .

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8Fattkidd(45 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Shameful. So, 7, 9, and 10 yr old kids are to be considered 'armed and dangerous' now? Nice. I believe if that cop was in MY backyard with a gun pointed at MY young children, he'd have a heck of a lot more to worry about than some internal whitewash of an investigation.

So, there are some reports of break-ins in an older, white neighborhood so, this officer sees three young BLACK kids and tries to arrest them!

And, how is this NOT racial?

So, whatever happened to QUESTIONING a suspect? You know, something along the lines of;

"Excuse me kids. Can I have a word with you? I have some questions I'd like to ask you."

What, we just go straight to guns drawn, and face down on the ground now? Last I heard, you were still innocent until proven guilty. This cop never witnessed a crime so, why was he trying to arrest someone?

Welcome to 'Police State: USA'.

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9BrothaLove(81 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Stan said:

"Now you have to ask yourself what shaped this officers mind while patrolling in Warren ? Let's enroll him in sensitivity 101 for a week ."

I don't care what shaped this officers opinion while patrolling in Warren. He is a grown man and supposedly trained as a law enforcement official. If the actions of actual criminals shapes his mind enough to draw down on innocent children then he should not be a member of the police force.

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10Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

BrothaLove :

"I don't care what shaped this officers opinion while patrolling in Warren."

Well, others do care and the police that patrol in Warren should be trained through seminars to deal with their stress .

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11jgm820(115 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I am seriously starting to think that the Warren PD should go through the entire police academy again. Something was obviously missed in their training. It seems like every other day another officer is in the paper.

Very sad...

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12Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

citydweller

"They were in the house waiting on their kids to get home from school -- or is it bad parenting these days to allow your children to walk a few blocks home?"

Carolyn Simmons talked to the boys later and learned that they had cut through another child’s yard adjacent to their own yard on their way home from school, went to their own front door, then to their own locked rear door, then back to their friend’s home to try to use the restroom, then back home when they got no answer at their friend’s house.

If the parents were home waiting for them how come they didn't go inside when they went to there own front door and the back door was locked?

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13citizen13(17 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

From CityDweller...."Carolyn Simmons said she first realized something was wrong when she looked into the backyard..."

How exactly were these parents not parenting? They were in the house waiting on their kids to get home from school --
__________
If she was in the house "waiting on her kids" why were both the front and rear door locked? Why would the children have to go to the neigbors house to use the bathroom??? Im a little confused....she was looking for her children playing in the back yard but yet she didnt open the door for them to come inside and use the bathroom????

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14Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Children Services should look into the period of time that these children are left unsupervised . Supervision of children 7, 9 and 10 is a reqirement for responsible parenting .

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15Maggie_Pentz(86 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

There is absolutely NO excuse for holding elementary school age children at gunpoint.

None!

This is NOT the Warren PD "doing their job" and you folks who think so have lost your damn minds.

Geez.

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16citizen13(17 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

MikeyMike,

The article did not say anything about the children giving the police a hard time....in the police officers defense, he hasnt given a statement yet and neither has the police department. The only ones making statements are the "victims". Im not saying he didnt use excessive force, bad judgement and over react but we have yet to hear what he has to say.

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17Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

brotherlove

"Firstly, like it or not, this is a case where the "race card" SHOULD definitely be "played."

Why should the "race card" be played? You don't think this happens all across the country, black and white? You think this is just a isolated incident? You don't need to bring the "race card" into it. If what you read, only one side of the story right now, then you should wait to hear all the facts then go from there.

mikey

"It's a shame that so many people are openly racist."

What comments were racist? Why is it that if someone has a opinion on something there a racist? That is the problem with society nowadays, you say what you want, and your labeled a racist. Unreal.

And we only have ONE side of the story, wait until we hear both sides and then let go with it. There are 2 sides to every story, not just one side with what the media picks up. Geez.

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18citizen13(17 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

mikeymike
I think this is outrageous,the children were 7,9,and 10,hardly hard core criminals.

I assure you 7,9 and 10 year old children CAN be hard core criminals. Think back to the 11 year old that shot and killed his fathers girlfriend in her sleep....take a look at the Juvenile Justice System at all of the 7,9, and 10 year old children behind bars for drugs, domestic violence, breaking and entering. Age is not a factor in crimes these days.

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19nane6(29 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

To all of you that believe this officer was righteous in his treatment of these children--THINK!!! If this was your children, how would you feel? All kids are not thugs. Plenty of kids walk home from school due to lack of busing. Black/White it doesn"t matter. They are still kids. Will they now be afraid of the police? He could have approached this in a better manner.

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20citizen13(17 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

nane6

After he releases a statement I will THEN form an opinion on if he could of approached this in a different manner. Kids do need to be kids, feel free to roam and play....If it was my children I wouldn't be putting them through more trama by making them front page news. I would handle this in a much more private fashion. The vindicator may print the story reguardless but I wouldnt be "commenting" to the press until I had all of the answers from all sides.

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21Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

sad
"That there are way too many racist white people shooting their mouths off here is obvious."

Where are the racist comments?

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22Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I cant believe some of the replies I guess these kids are not aloud to walk home from school? I feel the officer went to far that could of been handled different. I swear alot of the law is so half assed backwards. And as for this being a race issue there is a chance of it not saying it is a race issue im just saying there is a chance.

How would some of you feel if this was your kids walking home from school? Would you be so quick to say nice job police officer pat yourself on the back? How would you explain that to your children?

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23sistersun(49 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I hope the parents of these children give Warrens Police Dept.Hell.........Time Out for all this.No respect given to a system that can't find something else to do but harrass little children.

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24sassy(8 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

This was a clear case of racial profiling. Mr.and Mrs. Simmons are both professionals and have raised these boys with excellent manners and to say yes and no maam. They are excellent parents. My son,who is white as a sheet of paper,plays with these boys throughout the year while visiting his grandparents who live across the street. He is often invited to go with them to Soccer and Football games. He goes with them shopping on occasion just to be with them and have fun.

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25sassy(8 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

If this cop would have just taken one minute, before pulling a loaded revolver and shoving it into the faces of a 10,9, and 7 year old , to see how they were dressed and to just ASK some basic questions,he would have realized what a huge mistake he was making. WPD has a serious bigot problem. This cop needs to be fired. Everybody needs to come out and support this family - NAACP,ACLU and every church in the area. I have never taught my son color. More people need to try this at home.

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26studentmom(6 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

This is sad. Posters are automatically putting blame on these children and their parents. I take it kids are not allowed to play in their back yards or neighborhoods without being accused of a crime. If this was your child I am sure you would not put up with this. You would be the first person at the police station in an uproar. I do not blame the parents for poor parenting. I do not know these parents but I do know they taught their children to study & bring their books home from school. They also taught thier children what neighbors they can go to if need be. An investigation into this police officers conduct should be done. How can a community respect their police force if they do not respect the community they are serving and protecting?

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27citizen13(17 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@ Mikeymike

I agree completely, but it only takes 1% and there is no way of knowing who is that 1%. Like I said in a previous post, I am not saying the officer didnt over react but there are two sides to the story and as of yet we are only hearing one. Police Officers are trained to think the worst of even the best situation, to be prepared and on the defense. We dont know what he saw other than the children tried to get in the front door and couldnt....they then tried the back door and agian couldnt get into the home. I can understand why the officer thought they might be up to something. There had been a string of break ins and the children had been running through yards, trying to get into two seperate doors etc.

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28Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I'm in no way sticking up for this officer until I hear both sides of the story, but don't you think the comments are a little bit dramatic?

“excited to start their weekend,” but Sgt. Jeff Hoolihan “ambushed” them, leaving them “crying hysterically with drool running down their mouth as they convulsed with fear.”

The boys went in the house and hid under the covers of their bed, lights out, “confused and traumatized ... still wearing their mud-stained clothes,” she said.

“laying face-down in the cold, wet soil of our lawn.”

“they have had many obstacles to endure while living here.”

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29Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I also have another question how would some of you adults feel to have a gun drawn at your face and you made to get down to the ground face down over an assumption?

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30AtownParent(561 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Overly dramatic much Nunya, at my face, really? You do as your told. Hands up, get done. The officer was out numbered. Yes, they were kids, but even kids 3 on 1 is still a disadvantage for the officer and I am sure he was following procedure.

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31AtownParent(561 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Get down, not done.

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32BrothaLove(81 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

AtownParent

Your comment about the officer being outnumbered, and thus able to be overpowered, is absolutely ridiculous. I am a 30-something man over six feet tall and I doubt I can be overpowered or out maneuvered by a group of children 7,8 and 10. That comment is laughable. If this officer can't handle three kids walking home for school then he need not be on the force. If he can't control himself enough to NOT draw down on innocent children walking home he need not be on the force.

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33kidsrfun(1 comment)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Wow is all I can say! To think these comments are coming from responsible adults. It saddens me that there are those who actually agree with this behavior. Let's me honest here, this situation is out of control. And I am neither white or black. I am human and I am a mother. And to imagine my children face down with guns to there back is unbearable. I consider myself a fair person, and I honestly try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But who in there right mind could justify this behavior coming from someone of great authority? If this officer felt reason to question, there are more appriopriate ways of doing that than forcing "babies" to the ground with a gun towards them. Let's be honest and real here!!! And for those who agree with this officer, I'd love to see you face down with a gun to your back. I bet you wouldn't be talking so much right now. And what if that were your childen? Would you still feel the same?? Its no wonder our growing generation is the way it is...Look at the influence. Look at their leadership! I pray those children will one day be settled in what has dramatically happened to them, that has stolen a bit of their innocence. My paryers with them and their family.

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34citizen13(17 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

kidsrfun:

I cant imagine being forced on the ground and having "guns" drawn on me......but do we know that these children complied with the officer? Do we know what the children said or the actions they were making? I havent seen a statement from the police department or officer in question to have those answers. IF he did use excessive force there needs to be action taken against him. What I dont understand is how so many people automaticly assume there was wrong doing on the officers part. We have no information other than what is coming from the childrens mother.

When it comes down to it those that are saying he used excessive force without knowing facts need to readjust your thinking....I guarntee if you were being mugged or your house was being broken into you wouldnt want the officer that responded to have a stern talk with the suspects, no matter what their age.

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35Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

This is an intolerable outrage,..

I call it straight down the middle and getting straight and to the point. With no if's, and's or buts about it the hooligan Jeff Hoolihan needs to be fired,.. PERIOD !!!

I could care less what area or nationality the children were this is totally indefensible.

End of discussion, no reprimand, no suspension without pay nor would any apocalyptic apology suffice,.. DISARM AND FIRE HIM IMMEDIATELY AND JAIL HIM FOR BLATANT DERELICTION OF DUTY !!!

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36jeratboy(127 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Why no immediate comment from the cop? When others lawyer up people complain right away. His silence is a sign.

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37Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@AtownParent

You're an issue waiting and abating it to happen.

Having served in an array of capacities where it's been my duty to provide protection and uphold justice.

There's never been a situation where I've conducted nor could I ever condone the actions of a hooligan like ole Hoolihan.

There's been times where explanations of circumstance has been rendered and upon such diplomacy.

I've never had a problem with any hard feelings being harbored in establishing a mutually respectful understanding and achieving harmonious resolve.

However, by your posture and distinguishable disposition. There are some former co-workers that it's apparent you should have the pleasure to encounter.

In my line of duty I had misfits like you discharged and even had the support of some of their former spouses and children whom they'd accosted willing to give personal statements if they were needed.

If he was that scared he shouldn't be on the public force. Where if he's that insensitive he's not even an acceptable member of the community.

Speaking from vast experience I'll bet Hoolihan is a menace to his own family and one we can ill afford to arm as an infringement on society.

Now you ponder that the next time you face questioning of your merely being present and how you'd expect to be treated,.. and mind you these were children.

I feel for your children if you have any because there's a likelihood at least one of them will be influenced by you,.. and that's child abuse.

Not to mention it'd make trying to reason with them improbable and thus would constitute the use of restraint force,.. and THAT'S the Law.

See you can change your ways or have your attitude adjusted by finding yourself the suspect in regards to any grounds of suspicion,.. that's fact.

So you and those like you need to ponder would you like it misapplied on you or your children,.. or do you feel immune via your own ignorance?

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38Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@kidsrfun

You're right mame,..

As a father it's things like that which can cause me to take matters like that up in a mano e mano manner regardless to who they are.

See where I try to quell discord and don't advocate lawless behavior. My defense and respect for law and citizen goes both ways.

But when individuals on either side of the connective balance of society conducts themselves in such a manner.

Administrative resolve isn't the first thought nor instinct that comes to mind.

See where I'll not tolerate anyone preying upon those serving in manners of law enforcement.

I also and equally bear the same respect for those serving in the capacity of law enforcement to equally respect the populous.

It's a community connectivity between the coexistence of both citizen and patrolman.

Where those given the honor to serve in uniform has to conduct themselves far better than being represented by those like Hoolihan.

See actions like his can make even the staunchest and most straight laced law abiding citizen be so opposed to having been accosted by him.

Transform into a retaliatory driven menace and have the community and entire society oblivious to the recourse that such actions can so senselessly provoke.

All officers, public officials and citizens know that. Thus it's without question that Hoolihan clearly isn't a favorable service.

To representing neither the protective force nor maintaining an accord with the society that he so indefensibly mentally insulted and physically assaulted,..

This is unsettling to say the least and my respect goes out to the parents that has showed restraint in not taking Hoolihan to task,..

Where two wrongs don't make one right but there are certain things that have the propensity to provoke parental instincts and Hoolihan just got lucky,.. at the expense of those childrens traumatized experience with him.

Which for the responsible safety, welfare and betterment of all society absolutely don't need Hoolihan's kind of liability roaming at large,.. it's that cut and dry.

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39Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Lifes2Short

It's clear you've never had the unfortunate occurrence of witnessing a child nor an adult's behavior after they've been traumatized.

See even without being physically beaten when weaponry or threat of force and or immanent death. Is waged upon someone it all too often has a very distinct and debilitating effect.

These are children that were forced to the ground by an alleged member of law enforcement.

Finding themselves targeted with a drawn and aimed firearm and having their personal belongings rifled through in a manner no different than a strong armed robbery.

Now if you don't expect that to be a traumatic experience for an adult or for children.

Then I'd have loved to have you accompany me on making rounds in a dial capacity as a good will ambassador and enforcer.

Tasked with mending minds and fences of those who's been accosted by those who weren't even law enforcement.

Any clinician will tell you once an individual is traumatized in such a manner. They bear distinct signs, actions and behavior of insecurity, uncertainty and unrest.

The only ones that don't are those who'd adapted well to having been formally trained or informally conditioned to such encounters.

Where even then not all that's been formally trained to not be so debilitated and or disoriented upon encounter go unscathed.

No matter what the extent of ones exposure or experience is. There's always something you can witness and not having physically endured yourself.

That will shake and or bother you to a point of never being able to forget the horror you witnessed.

So for those children to not want to undress and or act as their normal selves after such an experience. Is anything but suspect or abnormal and unfortunately doesn't have to be embellished.

Which is something I'm telling you from experience of what I've witnessed.

In essence those children have been nothing less than terrorized, accosted and assaulted under the guise of suspicion,.. and on a pretense of pure poppycock.

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40yeahright(20 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Another fine graduate from the John Mandopolis School for Sensitivity Training! Why is a cop using deadly force on 3 children? Did he think his life was in danger??

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41Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@AtownParent My sn is Nunya22 and what you said in your reply is that what you would also tell your child/children? That the police officer was doing their job by pulling a gun out on you and making you get down on the ground. Im sorry if you think the police have a right to pull out a gun on you just because they think you might of did something.

Since when is it okay to draw a gun on an assumption he didn't see a weapon or see these boys breaking in a house. He could of questioned them and went to both addresses the boys ran back and forth to. And if he felt out numbered he should of had backup officers with him.

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42valleytransplant(37 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Let's look at the bright side. When these lads get older, they will be more comfortable in assuming the position. And why are they living near Trumbull Country Club?

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43Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@valleytransplant Is this situation funny to you? And what is wrong with them living near that country club?

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44sassy(8 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

valleya.z.plant - So glad you're gone. And ,BTW,this family is quite affluent.

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45Merchant(1 comment)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

All I have to say is. What if that was your child being man handled by police officers. I'm not talking race just any little boy in general black, white, or yellow. That was over kill on the police part and they know it.

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46Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@hope4thevalley You don't think the officer could of handled this situation different, you approve of the gun being pulled out on them and them made to get face down to the ground?

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47Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

"He thought they might have committed a break-in, according to a transcript of communication between Hoolihan and his dispatcher."

Many kids in Warren are breaking into houses everyday . After a sensitivity course Sgt. Jeff Hoolihan should be able to relax and not be so aggressive . As long as the kids are having fun who cares . Right ? It is far better to leave a thousand go that to traumatize one child . Of course those thousand home owners who were broken into may get bent out of shape and blame the police for not doing their job . I'm sure that a halfway point could be reached here by having Sgt. Jeff Hoolihan undergo sensitivity training so he can do his job better .

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48Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Stan He didn't say he seen them breaking in to houses he assumed it. What would make him pull out a gun on the young boys over an assumption? Could he have went to both addresses after questioning them. He could of asked to search them without drawing a gun. Then after finding nothing the kids get no apology for the incident. Thats like you being out somewhere walking in the area where some break-ins happened and you getting a gun pulled out on you without you having a weapon on you being treated as if you are a criminal.

How would you truely feel if this happened to you?

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49woolyd(579 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Ijust can believe some of these crazy comments. These were kids not thugs.HOPE4THEVALLEY maybe when you are in ytown you should have a gun pulled on you to scare you straight? nah if thaty happened you would say you were robbed. Just because it was a cop it doesnt mean its right. TRANSPLANT why would these kids have to kn ow how to assume the position? Are you implying they will be thugs? And if you are why is that? LASTLY I CAN GUARANTEE IF SOME OF YOU BLOGGERS HAD YOUR KIDS GO THROUGH THIS YOU WOULDNT BE SO PRO OFFICER IN THAT SITUATION.

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50DAL(90 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

This story outrages me! If it was white children traveling thru these yards, would the officer done the same thing? I don't think so!! It was racial targeting. We have bigots out there that think what this officer did was right. Think about it!! If these were your children how would you feel? There has been alot of bad press against the Warren Police Dept and I think that something needs to be done about this. We use to think of the police as our heroes but it seems as though they now have became some peoples worst enemy.

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51Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Nunya22

You don't know the whole story. How could you pass judgement on a situation without hearing both sides of the story? Like I said before, if the officer was indeed wrong, then he should be dwelt with swiftly. But your only hearing ONE side of the story and when someone is in front of the media, of course the public is going to be bias. Case in point - The balloon boy. The media is going to do whatever they want to sell and have viewers. Wait till the facts come out and then vent your frustation.

You assume
"These are children that were forced to the ground by an alleged member of law enforcement."
How do you know they were forced? You were'nt there.

"Finding themselves targeted with a drawn and aimed firearm and having their personal belongings rifled through in a manner no different than a strong armed robbery..."

Again, you weren't there. And what did the officer do, look threw the backpack? Isn't that OK to do? But see how you word it, "their personal belongings were rifled through...." he could have just looked in the backpack, but the way you phrase it, it's like he did something humane.

"Then I'd have loved to have you accompany me on making rounds in a dial capacity as a good will ambassador and enforcer."

I would love to. I try to help the children or adults every chance I get, you see, I'm a felon and I try to help everyone I can, to teach them from my past mistakes.

"No matter what the extent of ones exposure or experience is. There's always something you can witness and not having physically endured yourself."

I have endured it, on numerous occasions.

"That will shake and or bother you to a point of never being able to forget the horror you witnessed. Which is something I'm telling you from experience of what I've witnessed."

You witnessed it, I lived it.

All I'm saying is wait till everyone hears both sides of the story and not jump to conclusions because of what is in the press. I though adults knew better.

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52Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Stan

You just wait on that to happen. That unhinged hooligan Hoolihan is finished.

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53Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Lifes2Short

I've already got the details of what happened and my sentiments are no rush to judgment.

Where while you were pondering what happened I found out.

This is exactly what I stated it is as an intolerable act. Committed by an individual that doesn't belong on anybody's police force and the John Mandopolis freebies are over.

Now you just try growing up and realize some things just go beyond hypothetical reason,.. and THIS is one of those cases.

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54AtownParent(561 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Nunya22 - you were the only one commenting with that name at the time I posted, didn't even realize there was another but I can understand why you would want to distance yourself from the other one. And yes, I tell my children to respect the law, adults and anyone in authority. I never said they were poor, not sure where you got that from, but it was a case of not good parenting. All the doors are locked when it is time for your kids to come home? Both parents are in the house yet no one walks to the school to accompany the kids?

@Nunya - you obviously harbor some deep seeded ill will to the Warren PD that goes beyond this incident. By the way, did you have the dictionary sitting out next to your while you wrote your drivel so we would think you're knowledgeable on the subject. Big words can't hide bad grammar.

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55Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@AtownParent I never said you said they were poor not sure where you read that from. But I will agree with you with the doors being locked I feel the oldest child should of had a key to get in the house or someone needs to be up to open the door to let them in. Not sure if them running to a friends house was apart of a plan if they cant get in the house or not. I never had that problem when I was young walking home from school I had my house key I was very responsible.

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56Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

nunya22

"I've already got the details of what happened and my sentiments are no rush to judgment.
Where while you were pondering what happened I found out. "

Well what are the details? What exactly happened without the drama details.

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57Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Lifes2Short I went by from reading what the officer said to the dispatcher. I said a few times couldn't he have handled this differently. Are you trying to say these kids layed face down to the ground on their own as a possiblity?

And to be honest not even sure if I should of even said he could of searched their backpacks. I say that now because im not even sure if he had enough evidence or if it doesn't matter by law.

But I know police work is hard they have rules to follow by law just as well as everyone else. What would also help is if these police cruisers had cameras on them.

I just don't like how some of these laws are from personal experience that I will not post on here. I needed the ypd help and nothing was able to be done is all I will say. But I will wait until this story is updated more. I just don't like any wrong doing with nothing being done about it because of lack of evidence.

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58sassy(8 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I just hope there is a witness to the incident who steps forward with video camera with it all on tape.

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59Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Lifes2Short Are you even aloud to say you found out what happened on this vindy website? But anyway I already replied to your first reply. I didn't see your reply first because I scrolled down to far and missed it just incase if you were wondering.

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60RustOnMyBelt(114 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

W-R-O-N-G. Wrong! Look at the photo of those little kids. Held at gunpoint. Were other kids walking the sidewalks and street on THEIR way home from school, too? Does this cop know what time of day it was? A loaded gun! Pointed at little kids lying on the ground! This is not Afghanistan. Is this what cops are instructed to do in any situation? He should be fired and the department thankful he didn't fire-off a round.Sound like an hot-head irish cop...oh, I'm sorry- Is that PROFILING?

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61Ucan2(8 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

When i view this blog i really get upset at the things people post and say but i just take a deep breath and realize that the people posting on the blog are ignorant and don't know any better because they have convinced themselves that they live a "PLEASANTVILLE" life this is not the case at all what that officer did to those boys was a disgrace period point blank, When a situation happens like this how would you fell if this were your children??? I dont think you would be happy at all so stop all the negitive talk and get senseable about the bigger picture yes the cop over reacted and he needs to be punished according.

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62Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

ucan2

"so stop all the negitive talk and get senseable about the bigger picture yes the cop over reacted and he needs to be punished according."

What negative talk? What bigger picture? Were you there? Did you see exactly what happened? Do you believe the media about everything they put out? Are you that gullible? Do you rush to judgment all the time without hearing both sides of the story?

"When a situation happens like this how would you fell if this were your children??? "

How would you feel if your name was slandered because of one side of the story, this officer could be a father, is a son, could even be a grandfather. Could be a great cop and honest man. So before you judge someones character get all the facts.

And for the hundred time, I'm in no way sticking up for this officer until I see all the facts! Right now, it's hearsay. Get real.

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63leftyompton4life(79 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

There is not one solid reason anyone of any sort should be drawing a gun on kids that havent even reached puberty yet. Can you imagine the fear enstilled in those kids? I mean apparently this cop "was in mortal fear" that these kids were dangerous....because we all know the recent rash of underage burglaries in Youngstown(sarcasm).

Let's take race out of the picture for a second,even though thats hard to do. So a cop was approaching kids and they ran...if I understand the story so far. So the first thing he though..."wow,these are the kids that broke into a house." I mean obviously if I were a cop I would figure that the mind of kids under the age of 11 would be intelligent enough to "BREAK IN" someones house. Was any identity even given from the dispatcher to the police officer?

Mind you I havent read all the posts so there may be some info I am missing out on but this story is just rediculous.I was 10 years old only 16 years ago and if someone pointed a gun at me, Id be hiding under my sheets to.

And if thi story if true and did go like the mother says not only do I feel bad for the children but that officer as well. I feel bad for the pure fact that he has a job interacting with people instead of a short order cook at the Waffle house where he probably belongs...and of course the prick of a cop hasnt come forward to defend himself...that would just be too easy...probably needs time to conjure up some huge lie.

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64henryviii1509(274 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

My $0.02,

Let's see, City of Warren
White Cop, patrolling black neighborhood.
Black kids, running through back yards un-supervised.
Neighborhood experiencing high volume of break-ins & burglaries.
I report-you decide!
Officer only doing what we pay him for!

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65Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

leftyompton4life

"Was any identity even given from the dispatcher to the police officer?"

Was there? Maybe there was? You don't know.

"And if thi story if true and did go like the mother says not only do I feel bad for the children but that officer as well. "

Big question! IF THIS STORY IS TRUE!

And then you rush to judgment and slander someone that you don't even know about.......get real.......

"I feel bad for the pure fact that he has a job interacting with people instead of a short order cook at the Waffle house where he probably belongs...and of course the prick of a cop hasn't come forward to defend himself...that would just be too easy...probably needs time to conjure up some huge lie."

I hope you are never on jury duty because you hear only side and rush to judgment.

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66leftyompton4life(79 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Apparently the cop didnt have his facts straight either since he is pointing a gun at young children whom did nothing wrong and I realize he was "doing his job"(term used loosely)...but lets give all police the benefit of the doubt...because they'd never lie.

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67Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

leftyompton4flie

"but lets give all police the benefit of the doubt...because they'd never lie."

Who said that? Who said they never lie? Seems to me, he hasn't even said ONE word and your profiling him. Get real.

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68Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Lifes2Short

Listen,..

I'm not here to play any gadfly games and people are appalled, unnerved, outraged and vocally talking. Where I've yet to encounter any eye witness's but right along with that transmission he had with dispatch.

Fact is with him not being called out on any call for activity or disturbance. I'm hearing there's correlating accounts and thus all you need to know is that reported account is exactly consistent with what's being stated too and fro.

Which from whats already known you don't have to be neither Perry Mason, Johnnie Cochran nor F. Lee Baily to figure this out. Which you can best believe beyond any grass knowles account, unless conclusively proven otherwise.

This is an atrocious act by an individual that speaks for itself,.. and MORE outrageous because it was a cop.

See beyond your previous lip service I have an extensive history of supporting law enforcement and experience in an array of criminal study.

Thus I whole heartily support and appreciate the service my comrades provide. Which I'm no rush to judgment type individual and my shared perspectives more than serves as testament to that fact,.. what about you?

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69Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@ytown777

Ugh,ugh,..

Fact is it happened and it's deplorably indefensible.

See this is clearly a case where not all serving in an occupation bears the qualities to do the job.

Where just like it's clear via your displayed lack of sound judgment and aloof character in regards to responsible actions.

Where it doesn't make you Judas priest but it's without question you're not fit as neither police nor public official material,.. and in this case it's equally clear neither is Hoolihan.

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70leftyompton4life(79 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Well maybe he shouldn't be a **** and answer basic questions...people seem to care more about Tiger Woods answering questions.

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71Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Nunya22

"Fact is with him not being called out on any call for activity or disturbance. I'm hearing there's correlating accounts and thus all you need to know is that reported account is exactly consistent with what's being stated too and fro."

You ever hear of "routine" patrols? What facts? Enlighten us if you have the facts and not hearsay.

"Which from whats already known you don't have to be neither Perry Mason, Johnnie Cochran nor F. Lee Baily to figure this out."

They always have both sides of the story, not just one side.

"This is an atrocious act by an individual that speaks for itself,.. and MORE outrageous because it was a cop."

Once again, where are the facts in the matter?

See beyond your previous lip service I have an extensive history of supporting law enforcement and experience in an array of criminal study.

"Thus I whole heartily support and appreciate the service my comrades provide. Which I'm no rush to judgment type individual and my shared perspectives more than serves as testament to that fact,..

Well what are exactly the facts then?

what about you?
Me? I had my run ins with all law officials, from the beat cop to State, from county jails to prison. If anyone has hated cops it was me. I blamed them for all the trouble I've been in. But you know what?? I was WRONG. I don't blame the cops for being tough with ignorant criminals, it's there job and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Live in there shoes day to day.
Anyway I'm not sticking up for this cop, I'm only saying hear both sides of the story. If he was wrong in what he did, then he should be punished for his actions, but if he's not, he's been slandered. Seems not fair, does it?
And probably offline here, but a nice quote from the bible when Jesus was questioned.

Jesus kept silent and answered nothing. —Mark 14:61
Silence can be valuable; don’t break it unless you can improve on it.

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72Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Atownpetulance

From me to you,..

It's apparent via your wayward process of illogical thoughts. You irritably have the mind of a toad, the character of a outhouse fly and bear the presence of an absolute board joke in reference to pattern and presence,.. to put it mildly.

See that aside it's apparent my degree of education and your lack there of humiliates you. As well as my possessing more founded logic that consistently differs from your illogical idiocy unnerves you.

But I detect it's my exercising it with colorful candor and conclusive facts leaves you overwhelmed. Where with respect that your disposition is not my fault you owe yourself an apology.

See I have no axe to grind with Warren PD but I do have a strong character value for upholding and demanding adherence to and for prudent and proper conduct.

That's without bias and regardless of occupation, vicinity and or any other variance of ambiguous difference.

However, beyond any personal posturing as to joist in a manner of brain flexing barbs and low brow back handing you into oblivion.

Fact is just like not every cook ain't no gourmet chef and not all that lands a given occupation are affably fit for the job.

Just like you attest to be a parent as morally deficient as you are. It's without question Hoolihan epitomizes that not fit description. Where there's no two ways about the fact that his conduct makes it irrefutable he needs to be off the weapon wielding force,.. NO QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.

Where I have NO idea what capacity you could be salvaged to fill. In regards to Hoolihan he may make a fine employee doing something else.

But being retained as a policeman absolutely isn't anywhere in his composition of character traits. Which by actionable manner of conduct he's shown and proved that,.. PERIOD !

See this isn't an isolate Warren PD nor any unwarranted ISO dismantling of Hoolihan inference in the least.

It's individual conduct being cited you loose screw lunatic. Which it's equally not any grounds for anyone to contend Hoolihan's actions reflect on neither the manner nor character of all cops either.

See in your feebly trying to fan dance around all that. It's without question you speak as a twisted witch and I'm not one to mince words about it.

Where like I told you before with your alleging to be a parent with detectably such a deplorable demeanor.

I supportively feel for the safety and betterment of your kids and for their sake. I'm hopeful they don't perceive nor assume you're any positive influence for their refinement.

I mean that and I'm so sensible in my deliberations that no way will I blame nor dis favorably perceive nor insinuate.

That your children should bear any guilt for your loathing lack of providing any aspect of positive influence for their congruent social development of cognizance.

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73Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Lifes2short

Here's the deal,..

Where it doesn't make me nor anyone else celestial because we've not been on the wrong side of the law.

I'll also say it's commendable if you've rehabilitated the error of your ways and don't falter to blaming nor lying on enforcement officers for conduct you committed.

As anything less than the driving impetus that summons them acting in a way exacting your arrest and detainment measures for your apprehension.

But with that said nobody but nobody is " authorized " to draw down on little kids like that coming home from school based on some wild eyed blindly based alleged assumption.

Sure there's the race issue here but even take that out of it here. See because regardless what nationality any of the parties involved where. By exact circumstance and act of the patrolman it speaks for itself.

See it's so detestable and indefensible it'd matter not if the dynamics changed to where it was male on male, female on female, white on white, black on black, latino on latino, asian on asian.

Or any other combination or variation you'd like to transpose and or hypothesize about. This ordeal is just so indefensible it doesn't change no matter how you want to twist, turn or contort it.

It's almost like you'd want to cite deliberating a instance where some young crud had slapped an elderly grandmother on a personal whim without provocation.

Which you'd expect responsible discovery would be senselessly trying to split hairs about if the accosted victim was the callous culprits family, friend or neighbor or not,.. IT DON'T MATTER !!!

See here's the non embellished deal,..

This far beyond adolescent aged individuals personal conduct of drawing a service weapon. Was displayed where there was absolutely no signs nor evidence of forced entry, no stolen property witnessed nor discovered, no weapon nor criminal tools observed, no criminal history, no by description complaint nor were the individuals in violation of any ordinance,..THOSE ARE THE KNOWN FACTS !!!

Now you draw grounds of selling such suspicion and try if you may to vindicate anyone cop or otherwise. Drawing a weapon on innocent young school kids.

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74Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Ucan2

Exactly and where it's respected that law enforcement officers have to take certain precautionary measures of protection for themselves in the line of duty. They also have a sworn oath to adhere to upholding the safety of citizens as well.

For which this is clearly a case where an unjust patrolmen not only showed no regard for the latter. But he trampled on it with such the indefensible manner of conduct of nothing less than a uniformed thug.

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75Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Lifes2Short Not sure if you made a typo but my reply to you is post numbers 71 and 73

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76Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Nunya22 :
"How would you truely feel if this happened to you?"

I would comply knowing I had done no wrong and be relieved when it was over .

http://www.kenstillson.com/ken/pics/f...

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77dawgalong(86 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Circumstance, people, circumstance. Does anybody truly believe that this officer was patrolling the streets looking for potential burglary suspects and saw 3 young men walking home from school. They were wearing backpacks, hailing from an "affluent" home and he then had the notion to plant them face down in the mud with his weapon drawn just for kicks? Or, were they like the "young man" I encountered on the south side of Y-Town the other day. He was riding his bike in the middle of the right lane, staring me down as I waited for him to get out of the way. I didn't sound my horn or anything. I figured he was just a young lad out for a bike ride on a nice day. He finally got out of the way and as I passed he yelled "what are you looking at B***H. My instict was to immediately berate his poor, ignorant, pathetic, existence but then it occurred to me that he may be packing his cousins filed off 32. It wasn't the child that was threatening, but the patheticly deplorable environment that he unfortunately is exposed to on a daily basis that made him potentially dangerous. I am not exposed to this culture on a daily basis like the officer in question is, but it took me only a couple seconds to identify the potential danger. I'd like to hear the officer's side of the story before passing judgement.
If I were on that law enforcement force, I would heed the message that if I see three 5 foot tall (or so) suspicious subjects in an area that is experiencing a rash of burglaries, maybe it's a good time to grab a bite to eat and let nature take it's course. Because it is apparent that trying to do your job attempting to prevent crime in that area is a thankless endeaver.

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78sassy(8 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

dawgalong - You are way off base with these kids and the neighborhood, but you got to tell your other story which is what you wanted to do in the first place. Do not even think these boys are anything like the encounter you had. See my previous posts. The cop was on routine patrol. My family lives in the neighborhood and have never been robbed and didn't know there was a robbery problem.

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79Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Stan I think I would almost pee my pants if a gun was pulled on me and start shaking in fear. I would be so scared out of my mind and I really don't know what i would do next after the whole ordeal was over.

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80Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Just a thought, actually re-reading the article the mother CLAIMS that the kids were held at gunpoint. Makes you wonder if they were indeed held at gunpoint just because he ordered them down, doesn't mean he had a gun out. Hmm, just my two cents.....

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81Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

nunya and nunya22

I apologize for having the wrong ID's on my comments.
Everyone have a nice Easter.

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82Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Lifes2Short

For me there's no need for you to apologize,..

It's respectable and appreciated and although 22 and I are in fact different individuals and I have no idea who they {22} are.

As like all others here we differ and yet just have somewhat similar screen names.

It was my understanding and acceptance that it was an instance where you just wanted to comment / discuss perspectives with such interest on topic.

With such staunch immediacy that you merely overlooked the screen name difference it's perfectly understood.

I understood it as that and somewhat in a differing variance. At times I'll flub / fat finger the keys and leave out a letter, term or whatever and only note it after I've sent it to post.

Which unfortunately as we all know when we make such typos here we can't correct submitted errors via Vindy's setup.

Happy and safe Easter to you and yours and all others as well.

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83northsideart(111 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Making kids that age lie on the ground like that is ridiculous. It's also ridiculous for them to not be able to access their home after school. The kids were let down by the cops AND their parents.

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84Sunny(25 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Maybe we should look at the flip side of this situation and try to bring something positive out of what may or may not be something negative. What if, just for the sake of argument, these kids were to learn a valuable lesson over this situation?

For all we know, what happened to these kids may help them remember in the future what happens when it is PERCEIVED by a police officer that they may have disobeyed the law.

I think we have forgotten something here. Right or wrong, that police officer made a split second decision while trying to protect the property and safety of the citizens that day KNOWING there had been criminal activity in the recent past! I think he honestly felt that he saw something worthy of the decision he made. Besides, for all we know, those kids might have looked much older than their age.

They went to the front door then the back, then they ran through the yard to the neighbors house then back to their own home. If it were me, I might think it was a bit "fishy" too.

To the parents of these children: Use this as an opportunity to teach your kids the importance of their actions and how they may be "PERCEIVED". Teach them the importance of growing up to be a law abiding citizen and to respect the police. Please don't let this turn into another example of racism. We have enough negative here for a lifetime. The man was doing his job. Forgive him for his mistake. Your kids will understand if you help them and you never know, this one event just might end up saving their lives someday. It's all in how you handle the situation.

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85Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@northsideart

Not even close,..

You're trying to compare apples and oranges in your fruitcake again. Granted I'll certainly agree that those as well as all children should have been able to get into their respective homes as soon as they initially arrived.

However, as we all know there are times when children are known to lose keys. And or act irresponsibly with unfettered access to home security. That as well as in today's economic structure it's not uncommon for both parents to work.

Thus at times things like the children arriving home earlier than the parent[s] unfortunately aren't that rare.

Ask other parents of single or dual working parental relations how that juggling act works. Along with that speak to those whom work in schools, daycare, preschool and nurseries how intricate juggling times in regards to services, time-ables and schedules are so important.

But even aside from all that relevant sense,..

What I find intolerably idiotic is how you and or anyone else of your lack of thought process. To claim that the children's inability to initially get in the home. Is as in anyway comparable to the indefensibly despicable conduct that a wild eyed lunatic gun wielding alleged grown up.

Posing as a police officer or anything else to act as anything but sane, civil or sensible in how he accosted those children the way he did.

In that regard I find you an absolute lunatic trying to even remotely compare, equate and or all allege there;s any correlation what so ever. See thank god that gun didn't discharge as well as it wasn't a weekend or day there wasn't any school and the children were out playing in knock around clothes.

Because surely old wild eyed Hoolihan would have viewed them as dressed so out of sorts. That by his anything but cerebral " Hunch " induced deduction. Clearly the little fellas a little dirty from some football, basketball, biking or child frolicking.

Would have given an individual like Hoolihan the appearance of being such a threat by appearance and presence alone he'd have fired on them.

See just like Hoolihan has to be extracted from anything to do with law enforcement. You and those like you are in need of someone overseeing your affairs in regards to judgment and interaction with the populous.

Not as a snide swipe at you nor Hoolihan. But responsibly for collective safety because the stunts you'd be inclined to pull. Makes you a hazard to society and a danger to yourself.

Because I'm here to tell you that fortunately or unfortunately. Be it known and respected that not everybody will neither take kindly nor respond in a civil manner. If such judgment was employed upon them in such a mindless manner of endangerment.

Where if someone more stable was overseeing your interaction. I feel it'd greatly reduce the odds of something that otherwise could have been avoided from senselessly happening via your lacking more rationale sense.

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86Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

This six year old boy didn't like a white girl in his class so he brought a gun to school and shot her .

http://www.timeswrsw.com/V030400.HTM

We Live In A Culture Of Violence
Gary Gerard, Managing Editor
If ever you needed evidence that we live in a culture of violence, you have to look no further than an elementary school in Mount Morris Township, Mich., south of Flint.

That’s where 6-year-old Kayla Rolland died after being shot in the neck by a 6-year-old classmate.

The classmate, a boy, brought a loaded .32-caliber semi-automatic pistol to school after getting into a playground scuffle with the girl the day before.

He fired one shot while children from his class were waiting in line. He then walked into a bathroom and tossed the gun into a trash can.

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87dawgalong(86 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Sassy, OK these boys are nothing like the young man I encountered. The police officer has to discern in a matter of seconds if they are, and I believe you, responsible young adults that hail from a fine and decent family. OR is one of the boys capable of the act that STAN describes above? If I am the officer, and I want to get home and enjoy the London Broil the wife has made for dinner, I'm going to make sure that I protect myself before wondering if I am going to offend or traumatize anybody in that situation. When my nephew was 6 yrs old, he kicked in the neighbors basement window because he was mad at their 6 yr old daughter for calling him stupid. He entered the home through the window, turned over all of the potted plants in the house, spilled the milk from the refrigerator onto the kitchen floor, left the refrigerator door open, and left the front door wide open as he left. He was caught because of footprints in the snow. His mother enlisted the help of a YPD officer she knew to help steer him in the right direction. After his time with the officer, (and I was there) his mother asked him what he thought. He replied " I hate him, I want to kill him". That was 20 years ago and he is still a POS that lives off of the government or anybody else that he can leach on to. So, once again, I would like to hear the other side of the story.

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88Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@Stan

I'm aware of that horrid event,..

For which I say like some others here I've done without for my and other peoples children and my values haven't changed.

To include although I feel for how the shooter wasn't raised. It doesn't sway me one bit from being of the staunch belief.

That his deplorable uncle along with that pint sized savage of only 6 years old mutually needs to be put to death,..

That little girl nor her family owed that little manic demon any solace for his environment.

Granted although of a young mind that heinous act was with cold calculated and deliberate conscious.

Call me heartless, non compassionate or whatever you'd like. But such an infringement neither warrants, bears nor bears any leniency from me.

See where to expound a bit here to give insight to what drives my conviction. Is in the fact that we've all had our school yard spats and even confrontations as teens and adults.

But when one goes to that extreme to settle a score and have the presence of mind to know it's so wrong.

He deviously concealed the weapon, consciously awaited for a time to use it. Then display the presence of mind to go disgard it as to posture as innocent. Is a calculated manner of conduct that serves as all we need to know about him,..

Which for one to navigate in such a manner leaves no question that it's something embedded in their psyche that no time to think about alleged remorse is justice.

Which for him to say he wished it never happened after the fact. Is moot something I'm not compassionate to as relevant nor will it bring that innocent little girl back to her family, friends and society.

As far as I'm concerned and the way I feel about not being tolerant to treachery. His words can and should serve as his last and may the lord have mercy on him in the afterlife,..

To cite his environment as cause is idiocy. Just like anyone who'd allege his youth as in anyway a fulcrum to bear any false premise of innocence.

Is and or would be an aiding and abetting to exercise a tolerance to what he dis and who he is. Not by presumption nor opinion but by irrefutable fact.

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89Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

@dawgalong

Extreme difference and allow counsel to approach the bench to hash this out here,..

Where I appreciate the insight offering of relaying whats presented as an un-manageable and yet non relevant nephew.

Which we've not all had such " Baby Finsters " in our lives and by all means where your sister unfortunately bore an indifferent individual offspring.

Be it known your nephew's not in anyway to be hailed nor equated to as neither the norm nor even represent a seismic percentage of the populous.

See what happened in this case has all but absolutely nothing to do with your nephew. And all to do with both circumstances and children that's collectively and totally different here.

See first off in quantified comparison just like one drunk driver doesn't compel us all to be. As well as just because we know leading a law abiding life isn't within all.

The imperative fact and law of the land is there's a clause in governing law that's afforded and has to be adhered.

Which places rights of a suspect as that of innocence even in the preponderance of their guilt until proven.

Thus that comes with the affordability of non alienable protocol such as Miranda rights, process of search and seizure, reasonable cause, manner of apprehension and validating any use of deadly force,.. if employed.

See those aren't just options or favors they're requirements. Requirements that's all protected by the most basic foundation of whats called due process of law.

So now you take a look at what occurred again and try if you will to miss the litany of violations that jumps right out at you in regards to this display,..

See just like deranged demons like Charles Manson, Nannie Doss, John Wayne Gacey, Dorothea Puente, John Allen Williams, Jeff Dahmer, Aileen Wournos, Anthony Sowell and a range of others.

We as everyday men and women bear as much mortal existence by visuals as any one of them. But many of us chose not to be in anyway like them.

Which is to say if we're witnessed by a patrolman as perceived to be doing or acting in a suspicious manner of suspected criminal violation.

By your shoot first ask later mindset. It should be irrationally rationalized that we're to be aggressed as if we were of the manner, character and threat as those of heinous criminality.

Where in this instance you build and base your case on contending these children that was nothing less than terrorized without defensible reason. Is acceptable solely because they could have been like your nephew.

Not only were and nor are they. But where's the conflict? Where's the kicked in window? where's any evidence of vandalism here?

See fact is THERE ARE NO SUCH CORRELATIONS and thus there's no grounds, reason nor defense for what Hoolihan did at all,.. PERIOD !!!

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90woolyd(579 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Stan it is ok to comply but dont get hoodwinked by an officer on a treasure hunt.Sometimes these officers will violate an individuals rights especially on search and seizure because the average cirizen doesnt know their rights.

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91ohdrama0901(53 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

I am having a really hard time finding that there are some idiots who are legitimizing the actions of the officer. I don't care who robbed who or what, since when can't young boys rip and run the neighborhood of their own or any other without being put on the ground by a Racist officer who had nothing better to do with his time except attack 3 juvenile African American males. This story is so despicable to say the least. You wonder why some people have no remorse when they learn on the news that an officer has been shot down or something. It's officers like him that give police a bad name when all of them aren't that bad.

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92greyhorse(36 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

The kids were scared but not hurt.. given that we now live in times where ANYTHING can and does happen I don't see how you can blame the officer for being cautious. I have been profiled a couple times simply for the type of car I drive and once they run my plates and find out im not a trouble maker they are polite and send me on my way.

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93Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

THIS YOUNG FELLOW WAS TRAUMATIZED BY THE EASTER BUNNY !

http://96.0.120.246/images/scary-bunn...

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94Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

ohdrama0901

You can't be serious what you wrote.

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95Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@greyhorse

There we have it and you're certainly no sensible steed nor Smarty Jones,..

Here tell there pony boy you're not just a to the Valley you're a individual disgrace to the nation. As witnessed by that delivery of what was absolutely among the very top of the unscrupulously dumbest things.

That ANYONE'S ever offered as a perspective of preponderance in the entire existence of modern mankind, if not the entire history of phoneme inscription formed communication.

Thus let it be known and confirmed that it;s clear that in a process of evolution. You've not yet reach a mental nor moral development of even the stagnated specie as the most primitive form of a primate.

Without question your irrefutable idiocy is duly noted via your soliloquy of your being such a simpleton and it speaks for it and your self.

Hence forth let not a thing you stammer in such squalor of squelch. Bear any credence of nor relevant credibility to anything in regards to your display, admittance and confirmation.

Of your bearing a TOTAL and absolute lack of any resemblance of sense while possessing the character of a cross wired weirdo.

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96Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@ohdrama0901

See and that's the point, issue and problem here.

You're speaking the gods in heaven truth and there are some wonderful if not outstanding officers of both genders and of all descents on various police forces.

For which in a combo dis-service to both cops and community. This one indefensible idiot takes center stage and makes people question the character of the next one they'll see, encounter or ponder summonsing.

Which is wrong as all hell to all involved here, Because that's the last thing they deserve or I want to be promoted or society needs as a unnecessary hindrance.

See at the forefront of the injustice it's not race at the foundation here. It's the abhorrent conduct that can't be overlooked, accepted nor tolerated. Then one can't be cited as playing a race card citing the dynamics and reasoning.

See it's unfortunate but equally unquestionable that Warren PD has conduct and discipline problem. Where now Hoolihan has acted in an even more unhinged manner than his race raging boss spoke,.. irony?

See I know not all officers deserve to be even remotely looked at as bearing any character association what so ever. With such a unfit individual like Hoolihan nor even ole captain community kingpin mandropolis himself.

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97Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

nunya, ohdrama

"You wonder why some people have no remorse when they learn on the news that an officer has been shot down or something."

That is just sick!

"This one indefensible idiot takes center stage and makes people question the character of the next one they'll see, encounter or ponder summonsing."

So the next criminal can shoot the cop or resist arrest because they will say that he thought he was racist? What if the situation was reversed, would there be so many comments on the subject? I highly doubt it.
And finally did the cop have his say on what happened that day? I haven't seen nothing or read nothing yet. Only one families "claims." Is that fair to judge that persons character on just that?
And ONCE again, if you read my past comments on the subject, you will see, that I'M NOT sticking up for this cop, and if he did what they "claim" he did then he should be punished. If he didn't, he will still be labeled a racist because people won't read what happens after all the media hoopla. And that is fair?

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98Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

I could have been traumatized this morning when I realized that Easter Weekend is over . I will try to make the best of it today .

I was in Warren over the weekend and WPD was doing a fine job keeping the city under control . Nobody attempted to steal my car or to rob me when I exited it .

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99greyhorse(36 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Nunya it's ok to put the dictionary down and join the rest of the real world.. I promise LOL
However you are probably too priapic to get the point. :D

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100Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@Lifes2Short

Cut the crap,..

I've thoroughly laid out how I feel and how wrong what the gun wielding individual did and it doesn't hinge on race,... try again.

It's that individuals prerogative to address the public and he's chosen not to say a word,.. Why not?

One would think one finding themselves in such a precarious position. Would at least inform the public that they'd not acted in such a manner,.. especially if they didn't.

So Hoolihan's choice of saying nothing to oppose what it's stated he's done speaks volumes for itself.

It say's he's being lawyered up, don't want to be quoted nor can he care less what side of the incident is being spoken.

Now just what part of all or any of that don't you understand?

Better yet what part of others neither contending nor drawing no more inference than that is being propagated.

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101Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Not that I would enjoy a gun being held on me but I would much rather that the gun was in Hoolihan's hand than one of the Warren thugs .Oh yes, I know that the thugs should be given an equal opportunity and that my chain of thought may offend them . There are many letdowns in this world and like ........ everybody has one .

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102Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@Stan

Twisted as usual,..

Hoolihan didn't accost any thugs he terrorized innocent k grade-ish children.

Doing so in such an unhinged manner of having drawn and employing a gun in a way that you can't even remotely validate nor vindicate on premise of facts.

Which is exactly why you stammer so many obtuse angles to try to distort it,.. and you're failing miserably.

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103Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Nunya:

"Hoolihan didn't accost any thugs he terrorized innocent k grade-ish children."

So he didn't but there is nothing distorted in my thinking that I would rather Hoolihan held a gun on me than one of the thugs . Perhaps the obtuse angle that you are seeking is one where it would be far better that one of the thugs held a gun on the kids . You do have a point there . This way the kids would have had a better insight of the social structure of much of Warren .

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104greyhorse(36 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

You are talking to someone who assumes that kids that age cant do anything wrong Stan. Nevermind the fact that an 11 year old across the state line is being tried as an adult because he shot and killed his Dad's pregnant girlfriend.. they are just kids.. Yes these kids were innocent.. but the officer approaching them doesn't have a crystal ball to tell him that.

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105Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

nunya

"So Hoolihan's choice of saying nothing to oppose what it's stated he's done speaks volumes for itself."

How does that speak volumes? I'm sure the department is doing it's own investigation and him not going to the "media" makes him guilty? And what is stated? A "claim" from someone. That is not a "fact" that is one persons word. Why can't you wait till all the "facts" are in to blast the cop. And If he is guilty then I would be right there with you blasting him.

"It say's he's being lawyered up, don't want to be quoted nor can he care less what side of the incident is being spoken."

And you have inside information on this? How do you know what he feels and what he's thinking . Seems to me that your listening to one side of the story with the media and once again, I ask you, Is that fair?

Isn't it better to no all the "facts" of what happened?

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106Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@Lifes2Short

Listen,..

He doesn't have to hold a press conference or anything like that. As a public servant being cited for such conduct the least he could have done.

Was honor the public's trust, interest and need to know that he refutes the conduct being stated her committed.

That's not much and it's in line with respect for contending innocence. He didn't do that and yes that speaks volumes.

Had I, you or anyone else been cited as having conducted ourselves in such a unhinged manner. The first and absolute least I'd feel compelled and obligated to do was put societies mind at ease. That I openly refute the conduct being stated and allow the investigation to take it's course.

However, I'd only state such if I was innocent of the stated conduct. For which if not I'd not lie to the public in light of such conduct. As to further infringe upon those whom I was sworn to serve.

Because to lie would only compound matters and magnify ill character, irresponsibility and presence of disregard for any and all human decency.

So yes his absolute silence DOES in fact and DEED speak that magnitude of volume to me. Not just to me but to any and everyone else with such a respect for law, public accord and addressing act's of conduct associating my presence.

You can best believe right now as we speak. Outside of public scrutiny there are a host of back channel negotiations going on.

In effort to smooth this over and with hopes it can be settled without further alarming the populous he's displayed such a disregard for by conduct.

No doubt he'd like to keep his job and where I wish no one ill will economically nor via any other measure.

But as a public safety issue this is beyond that and retaining him in ANY manner of enforcement as such a hazardous liability would be indefensible and an outrage.

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107Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

nunya

All that and you still didn't answer my question.

Isn't it better to no all the "facts" of what happened?

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108citizen13(17 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@ nunya

I would bet a dollar that the officer hasnt released a statement due to Police procedure. He is more than likely not allowed by policy to release a statement until the Internal Investigation is finished. Officers and Law Enforcement have rules they must abide by to protect themselves, the department and citizens in situations like this.

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109Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@citizen13

I disagree on merit of fact,..

If we were allowed to wager on mere good will I'd take that bet in a NY minute. What you're saying / thinking sounds good but it's far from the truth.

See granted there are in deed various protocols within the channels of statements like that of conduct for law enforcement employees.

However, there's no such departmental protocol in the way of stopping neither Hoolihan nor any other directly associated PD employee from making statements in regards to their innocence.

What's shut Hoolihan up was himself and being lawyered up as to work this via back channel,.. PERIOD !!!

See for various reasons only those covertly working vice or task are prohibited from offering a sentiment of attesting their innocence,.. not applicable here.

See because this individual in question was working marked car street beat and the incident was recorded / performed in a capacity of civil apprehension of criminal suspicion.

Do your due diligence,..

Case and point here is you might want to recall how John Mandopoulus himself. Offered a statement in regards to having been accused of using the racial slur he did.

For which he made that statement far before his admission of guilt that came packaged with an acknowledgment associated with him pursuing a rank promotion.

It's your right to inquire by calling the Warren, OH, Chief of Police for yourself.
(330) 841-2536

See John Mandopoulus wasn't just guilty but he works through the same place as Hoolihan,..

There was also the veiled contention of innocence given by Warren PD's infamous Richard Kovach of Heidi Gill acclaim. Which was an ordeal just days after Kovach violated search and seizure law on a motorist Aug. 23 2007.

Which were both different than Warren PD's former Dewey Gray as officer outlaw. That did everything from take personal payoffs to illegally void tickets.

Atop of improperly intercepting guns from a citizen whom legally owned the weapons and phoned Warren PD to coordinate her desire of wanting them destroyed.

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110citizen13(17 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

You can disagree with me all you want, FACT is I work for a local police department and we are not permitted to make media statements without consent of the Chief. If we are in fact involved in an incident such as we are discussing we are not to make statements to the media, as a matter of FACT we are not to discuss any kind of on going investigation out of the office. (not to family, friends, etc.) I am sure the Warren Police Department has a policy manual and you can get copies (revised) of it as it is public record. BTW I have been in LE for 17+ years and it is ALWAYS best to see both sides of a situation before rushing to judgement for either side. INNOCENT until proven otherwise.

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111Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@citizen13

Here's the deal,..

First lets start this with the meat of the matter and ask why you haven't refuted the FACT'S and reference event's with names, dates, locality and events I've presented,.. Hmm?

Secondly I've referenced various conditions when standard protocol prohibits members of law enforcement from making public statements,... and even cited how that doesn't apply to the individual being discussed.

Thirdly if you dare presume I'm not experienced in the matters for which I speak and share perspective on what drives the impetus of my posture here you're grossly incorrect.

Last but not least if you're a member of law enforcement and conduct yourself in a forthright manner. Then you're to be commended and my appreciation is without reserve because the job isn't easy.

To go along with stating that I don't think good military members, cops, judges or legislators are given the appreciative credit they're due.

Be it known, respected and appreciated that those capacities are the structural backbone of security, law, order and justice.

However, in regards to what we've presented here in contrast and depth of reference. As a means to present an insight outline for the peoples review pretty much speaks for itself,..

For which one can distinguish for themselves who's bias and merely presenting speculative pondering,.. and that too is self evident fact.

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112planforthebest(53 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

No cop should have children lay face-down in mud and hold them at gunpoint, especially once a parent identifies them at being in their own backyard. That cop didn't use good judgment.

A string of burglaries in the neighborhood doesn't mean that boys 7, 9 and 10 would be armed and dangerous. That cop was over-zealous and probably enjoying a little power-trip.

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113Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

See ultimately all of such conduct like Hoolihan's have tails and or history,..

Does anybody recall a local hero employed as a Warren cop named Doug Hipple,..

See you should because of his gallantry and a hero like Doug Hipple is relevant here. See his mention is relevant because officer Doug Hipple isn't just the second to none patrolman that risked life and limb to save three women from a burning structure at the Bonnie Brae group home in Trumbull county last April.

It's also not just because officer Hipple differs so greatly as a Warren PD officer. But there's an extreme difference in valor, character and value to society and imagine of what law enforcement and first responders are all about.

But see this is the same Jeffery Hoolihan that obstructed the arson case that unfortunately burned officer Hipple, in an ordeal that one of the ladies later died and the other two ladies survived with injury.

See at that time Hoolihan was a detective on the Warren PD payroll at the time. Which he went against internal organizational orders regarding that case. Where Hoolihan willfully and deliberately went lone wolf and totally botched an ongoing he was instructed to take a hands off approach on.

Hoolihan refused internal orders and cost all involved in officer Hipple's exemplary heroism,.. http://www.wkbn.com/content/news/loca...

Where since then Hoolihan was demoted in stature and somehow not terminated and charged with cause.

Now less than a year later after his detective drop shot rendition he's now done this to K grade-ish children just let out of school.

Oh and Hoolihan has released a statement in regard to his conduct in this event and care to guess what he's contending?,.. guess.

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114Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Where are the critics?

The ones that tried every angle in the book trying to contended. That the wild eyed Hoolihan was apprehending pint sized neighborhood terrors running a crime ring off a school bus,.. how absurd and repugnant.

See to call those of race influence what you absolutely are. As silly and insensitive detractors in racists. Could have been deemed too straightforward and presumptuous,.. but yet you are and you, I and everyone else knew and know you are.

Yet somehow I feel that by presenting that last tidbit of informational Hoolihan as an officer review for you in regards to the individual in question.

Was in arguable, conclusive and quiet decisive in way of awareness. That it has served as a cornerstone for having duly silenced the insensitive all hail the Hoolihan behavior screwballs.

They're the ones that dared try angling as alleging my perspective was unfounded and my opinion of Hoolihan's actions were speculative and without merit,.. yeah right.

I can care less what gender, region, race, alleged religion or whatever an individual is if they're wrong they're wrong,.. PERIOD !!!

However, allowing the unhinged to hail their credibility as hats in this ring in contending Hoolihan is their upstanding man.

Now having came full circle here it's to be known that Hoolihan has shown himself to bear a history a history of being no service to anybody and that's not embellished.

Where with such a distinction he actually pose as a known liability to women, children, men and even departmental function and fellow officers.

Yep even to the likes of such unquestionable best of the best officers like Doug Hipple. Who himself in contrast is actually known, recognized, respected, documented and honored as a legitimate Hero.

So now what irony, capacity and department similarity and yet heck of an immensely measurable contrast in character, values, conduct, trust, valor, worth and presence,.. No?

So how dare I and what a way to dress you down strip your position in a manner of burlesque and emphatically discredit and educate you while shutting you up the racists huh,.. now suck it up and fly right you baseless savages.

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115Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

nunya

"In the investigation documents, Roberts said in his decision dated Nov. 25 he could not prove if the allegations against Hoolihan were clearly true or not true, "therefore I cannot in all good conscience file any" administrative charges against Hoolihan."

The Hipple case, 1st off is so irrelevant and second did you read the above paragraph?

"So how dare I and what a way to dress you down strip your position in a manner of burlesque and emphatically discredit and educate you while shutting you up the racists huh,.. now suck it up and fly right you baseless savages."

Are you sure your not a racist? I don't see any comments about racism except from you.

"I can care less what gender, region, race, alleged religion or whatever an individual is if they're wrong they're wrong,.. PERIOD !!!"

Again, what are the FACTS? And try to limit your comments because you rant and rave about such irrelevant material that has nothing to do about the article and your comments are so long winded and boring.

"Was in arguable, conclusive and quiet decisive in way of awareness. That it has served as a cornerstone for having duly silenced the insensitive all hail the Hoolihan behavior screwballs. "

Who is hailing this officer? If what is alleged then he should be disciplined as stated again and again. But how can you be disciplined if you don't have all the FACTS yet.

"Now having came full circle here it's to be known that Hoolihan has shown himself to bear a history a history of being no service to anybody and that's not embellished."

20 years on the force as a detective has some creditability and do you think he would throw away a career over 9-10 year olds? Seems kind of odd to me. Anyone with over 20 years of service must be doing something right or he would've been gone a long time ago.

plan

"That cop was over-zealous and probably enjoying a little power-trip."

Where you there? Like nunya and others you label this guy without knowing all the facts. Comment what you say if he indeed did what was "claimed" Ever hear 2 sides to a story?

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116Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@Lifes2short

Don't be a selective reader nor try flipping the script here,..

It's totally relevant what I presented and stated and it's without question.

Along with my sense, intellect and spiritual purity has my values greater in mankind. Than to falter to being so ignorant as to derail my focus, or devoid pure intellect or my values in life.

To be forsaken by being or becoming racist or sexist which would abominate the gifts I've been given,.. note those whom don't possess them.

I stated " See to call those of race influence what you absolutely are. As silly and insensitive detractors in racists. Could have been deemed too straightforward and presumptuous,.. but yet you are and you, I and everyone else knew and know you are,.. AND I MEANT THAT !!!

The investigating officer stated - " According to the report, Lt. Gary Vingle on May 1 learned Hoolihan had been discussing the arson case with the U.S. Attorney's Office due to the connections. But, while investigators had a suspect, Vingle told Hoolihan "to hold off on his end," including with contacting one witness for assistance with the case, until a decision was made on a direction for the investigation.

However, Sgt. Martin Gargas in a statement said he received calls from the confidential informant that day after the informant was contacted by Hoolihan. During the second call, the informant said Hoolihan "chewed him out" for making a previous call to Gargas. The informant also said he was directed to say the conversations between he and Hoolihan took place the day after the fire.

When Vingle learned Hoolihan contacted the witness, he called Hoolihan who said he "couldn't explain his reasoning to my satisfaction," according to the report. "

The only reason it wasn't conclusive is because the informant refused to inform the review officer that Hoolihan contacted him,... THAT'S FACTUAL MEAT !!!

See how that works is what's internally identified as an informant. On the streets is adversely called a " Snitch ".

Therefore with the levity Hoolihan had over that informants identity, It's understandable why the informant refused to formally out him under oath to the review officer.

So now you can try juggling and re-juggling that any way you'd like. However, it is what it is and it's not fabricated nor with any bias.

See you might want to try explaining how this individual got reduced from detective back down to precinct patrol,.. if it didn't / doesn't matter?

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117Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

nunya

"I stated " See to call those of race influence what you absolutely are. As silly and insensitive detractors in racists. Could have been deemed too straightforward and presumptuous,.. but yet you are and you, I and everyone else knew and know you are,.. AND I MEANT THAT !!!"

Don't even go there! You don't know me and I don't know you. Talk about yourself, but don't EVER, EVER LABEL me. You need to take a chill pill or mellow out because your ranting is getting totally boring! You say you know all the facts and inside information on EVERY article you comment on ,but all your doing is just making yourself look foolish. You don't have to write a book to get a point across and don't have to write irrelevant material.

"So now you can try juggling and re-juggling that any way you'd like. However, it is what it is and it's not fabricated nor with any bias. "

Once again, what part don't you understand on the following: ""In the investigation documents, Roberts said in his decision dated Nov. 25 he could not prove if the allegations against Hoolihan were clearly true or not true", seems pretty clear cut to me, but of course, you know everything, so maybe you should have been part of the investigation.

"Along with my sense, intellect and spiritual purity has my values greater in mankind. Than to falter to being so ignorant as to derail my focus, or devoid pure intellect or my values in life. "

OK, if you are so called all that, how come you don't hear both sides of the story and slander someone without knowing what happened? And exactly how are you helping mankind when everyone that disagrees with you, you rant and rave? If you have such pure intellect and values in life, then you would be someone that would want to know all the facts on something and not hearsay.

You really need to have a open mind when reading/posting on a board, instead of thinking your always right, because as shocking as it may seem, your not.

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118Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@Lifes2Short

Imagine that,..

See I don't do wooden nickles nor do I advocate red herring as the dish of the day either. So see by maintaining such a healthy diet in a manner of trimming the fat.

Now it's without question you've not prime cut nor ready for prime time either. Because now you've shown yourself to be an interdiction of your own ignorance. So much so that where if having less grasp I'd have to ask why you're lying.

But knowing our contrast positions of character and indifference of perspectives here. Combined with you've presented enough in angle and abject inferences to not leave any question why you've resorting to lying,.. it's without question you feel you HAVE to.

Also your inane attempt at attacking my intellect is enjoyed as laughable. For which I owe you no solace for your stupidity, dalliance for your disdain nor any apology for my possessing a superior intellect that you made such impotent inference to,.. Man to man.

You've lost both your cool, and handle on this issue and its evident you take facts you can't contort and objectivity you can't flip as offensive,.. isn't that something?

For which you've resorted to flat out lying and cunningly implying an array of things. In a overt manner of bearing no credibility.

Where as a more responsible adult I bear no similarity, blame, fault nor guilt for that nor your dysfunctional display,.. hows that for a lesson in responsibility.

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119sanpac2003(14 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Can someone please tell me where the article stated the children's race, because I sure as hell didn't see any race in the article??? what is going on with you people??!!!!

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120Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

nunya

"You've lost both your cool, and handle on this issue and its evident you take facts you can't contort and objectivity you can't flip as offensive,.. isn't that something?""

I would never lose my cool on someone like you. Matter of fact I'm so laid back it'll scare you. But it seems like your the kind of person that sits behind a computer and types up useless jargon like your on some kind of drugs. Are you? You rant and rave on and write a book about nothing. Handle on the issue? Your the one that can't answer my question. Sad, really sad.

"Where as a more responsible adult I bear no similarity, blame, fault nor guilt for that nor your dysfunctional display,.. hows that for a lesson in responsibility. "

You a responsible adult, from what you write, I really beg to differ. Once again I don't know you and don't really care to. Responsibility? I have more responsibility in one pinkie, then you probably do in your lifetime and I don't have to write a story every time.

"Also your inane attempt at attacking my intellect is enjoyed as laughable. For which I owe you no solace for your stupidity, dalliance for your disdain nor any apology for my possessing a superior intellect that you made such impotent inference to,.. Man to man."

How can someone attack your so called intellect if you don't have any. "Superior intellect", your kidding right? Being sarcastic, huh? Good one.

nunya, I truly feel bad for you.

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121Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Whoa this thread is still going strong

and@sanpac2003 read the last paragraph.

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122Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

@Lifes2Short

How absurd,.. LMAO !!!

Above everything else be apprised I'm now going to teach you a very valuable lesson here and that being being a brow beating spanking to teach you,.. DON'T - YOU - EVER - TRY - LYING - ON - ME - AGAIN !!!

See for starters don't proclaim to feel bad for me as a mealy mouthed mask for your chagrin either. Your display leaves no question that you haven't learned to accept when you're wrong and you morph into some manical liar when you're faced with that fact,.. check yourself.

See since I refuted a load of phony and refused to abandon the trail I was on. That left you resenting my position, outdone by my intelligence, overwhelmed by my resilience, awestruck by my depth and NOW being humiliated via my non bias accuracy and gloves off comeback response candor,.. LMAO !!!

You've melted down in a by fact manner of display and discussion that's shameful. Doing so in such an egregious manner that you're tastelessly resorted to implying and flat out lying on me.

Doing so in an evident method of desperately trying to contend I stated things that I didn't. As a deplorable method of trying to skew the facts and whats been stated.

I didn't call you nor all that differ in perspective as racists and you even extracted the direct quote.

I stated - " See to call those of race influence what you absolutely are "

Now just where in that did I call YOU racist?

Yet in response YOU tried to imply I was racist and I gave you a load of genuine reasons why I refuse to deplorably falter to such a despots disposition. Thus and apparently since you couldn't / can't refute it that struck a nerve within you,.. why?

You lied trying to allege I stated I had " inside information " on this and all matters of topic I share comments on. Which as FACT I've never stated no such thing,.. YOU LIE !!!

I stated I knew and had heard enough to draw my perspective from variances being relayed to me upon inquiry and track pattern of the individuals .

For which the rest I researched in a manner of review reference from wanting to know and the findings bolstered what I'd been informed and was strongly inclined to suspect,.. CHECK IT.

So see where not to devalue diplomacy here or revel in barbing you with disparaging names. But to yet hold steadfast on presenting face forward facts.

Irrefutable fact is via your false and baseless contentions trying to take me out of quote and context you've shown yourself to be,.. A BALL FACED LIAR !

Now here in fact is a / that much awaited statement from the unhinged Hoolihan in non edited nor redacted form. So be it may it is what it is and let the speculation cease and ,..

Get a load of this,.. http://www.wkbn.com/media/lib/129/c/1...

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123Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

nunya

blah blah blah......
Your a joke and I'm not even going to comment on your useless babble or read whatever you think you are. Life is way 2 short to bother with you anymore. Please get a life.

btw - the report looks like standard procedure on what to do when your patrolling and notice something suspicious. Nowadays you have no idea what could happen, even on a simple traffic stop. So after reading the report I feel the officer didn't do anything but protect the citizens in the neighborhood and I'm sure he wants to go home at night.
Say what you want nunya, because all your going to do his babble about nothing.

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124wcid(26 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Lifes2short, you are one big bigot from reading your post/s. This article is a pure example of a police officer using some of the POOREST judgement to date. I'm still fuming about the Oscar Grant issue in LA. How come these police officers nowadays be allowed to keep their jobs? I doubt that a seven year old is taller than 5'11! I see little children run all of the time and I'm not so paranoid about it enough to call 9/11! You sir, are living in a sheltered wonderland world where everyone leaves their doors unlocked and call the police everytime a black person is not in their fields picking cotton.

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125Lifes2Short(3875 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

wcid
"you are one big bigot from reading your post/s."

A bigot? Highly doubt it. And please inform me why you think I'm a bigot? I'm a very open minded person and always respect others opinions, but when they post stupid irrelevant material I have to disagree. Is that being a bigot? Funny how you can label someone when you don't even know them. Amazing talent you must have.

"This article is a pure example of a police officer using some of the POOREST judgement to date."

Do you live on this planet? You that naive to think it don't happen all over the world on a daily basis? White, black, pink, orange, etc, your only outraged because It made the media because of ones families issue. Otherwise you wouldn't know about it or give the time of day to it. It happens 24/7 all around the world.

"You sir, are living in a sheltered wonderland world where everyone leaves their doors unlocked and call the police everytime a black person is not in their fields picking cotton. "

Once again, what did I say to irk you to comment that? Re-read my posts and then show me where you think I erred in my ways.

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126L0L(648 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Yankee well said

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127dawgalong(86 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Bravo, Yankee

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128TheCritic(23 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

Fire this Barney Fife or take his bullets away!

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129igotsomethintosay(31 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

i can't believe how many of you are saying they are bad parents b/c their kids were running through yards or b/c she didnt realize something was wrong until she saw them on the ground! Do i think the officer used excessive force? no! he was doing his job! but you can't say the parents are bad parents and not parenting! Didnt you as a kid run around outside? Run through neighbors yards? Gimme a break!

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130L0L(648 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

igotsomethingtosay, well someones got to be at fault right? I mean, we cant just chaulk it up to an incidnet that occurred with a good outcome (no one got shot, cop on the streets doing his job, no houses got broekn into) nope! Not in this area, it has to be someones fault. I can almost foresee a lawsuit against the city, the officer, the maker of the officer's gun, the school for not taking the kids home and making them walk, the neighbors for all being white and them being the only black family in the area, etc etc etc. Typical people complaining about anything that happens. Why? Probably just to complain.

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131Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 4 months ago

I could of sworn I heard an update of this story on the news but they are still working on this. I wonder why it wasn't on this website yet unless I just missed it?

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132Nunya(1356 comments)posted 4 years, 2 months ago

@YankeeDoodlePansy

Priceless,..

Beyond your being insidiously wrong and self humiliatingly worthless.

You're so dysfunctionally deranged, imbecilic and full of fecal infestation.

That even as butt dumb and anal retentive as you are in your gastric flatulence that you call breath you can't even spell enema,.. incredible.

You're the kind of lab rat that makes it a unanimously global opposition to cloning,.. LMAO !!!

You're the perfect example of being the posterboy for the humorous heckle.

That resoundingly expresses you just can't fix Stupid there you juiced out Jethro,.. and it's easily detected.

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