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When murder becomes a way of life, a city can’t survive



Published: Wed, June 23, 2010 @ 12:00 a.m.

There have been other bloody weekends in Youngstown, even bloodier weekends during those years in the 1990s when Youngstown averaged more than a homicide a week.

Still, this past weekend, the third in June, stands out not just for the number of the dead and wounded, but for the depraved indifference shown by the various shooters.

The victims include a 17-year-old girl shot multiple times, apparently by a spurned lover; her new boyfriend was wounded and likely left for dead.

A Youngstown man was shot at close range in the face in Campbell and a West Chalmers man died of wounds suffered at his home.

And then there was a 7-year-old girl wounded as she sat in a car on Logan Avenue that was sprayed with bullets from a passing vehicle. A luckier 1-year-old boy escaped injury in a similar drive-by shooting on Lauderdale Avenue.

The circumstances were different. The victims were of different ages and genders. The motives are varied and, in some cases, undetermined.

But there is a common thread that ties all of this mayhem together, and that is a devolving culture in which gun violence becomes almost casual and early death is accepted as a way of life.

And this culture will not only kill people, it will kill a city.

Government response

Politicians and police can do little to change a culture — that is the job of other institutions such as schools, churches, community organizations and families — but policing can reduce the opportunities for violence.

That’s done through zero-tolerance enforcement up and down the city’s streets. Cars with nonfunctional lights, blacked-out windows, stereos blasting in violation of noise ordinances, even drivers without seat belts should be stopped routinely. Police must use any legal means at their disposal to make it more difficult for armed thugs to go in search of their prey.

Blockwatches are an important link between law abiding citizens and the police, especially regarding the operation of drug houses. Drug trafficking is at the root of much of a city’s violence.

The office of Steven Dettelbach, U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Ohio, had already pledged to help Youngstown authorities mount another crackdown this summer aimed at getting guns of the streets and pursuing longer prison sentences for criminals who use guns. That can’t begin too soon.

Such efforts have worked in the past to dramatically reduce that number of homicides in the city. Violent deaths were more than halved between 1996, when there were 63, and 1999, when there were 30. But 30 in a city of 70,000 people is still an obscene statistic, unworthy of a civilized community.

The ultimate responsibility

Police forces can do their best to stanch violence through increased patrols and vigilance to the extent that city, state and federal budgets allow. But young Youngstown men will continue to kill other men, women and children — and that is the prevailing demographic — as long as too many Youngstown mothers and fathers are more willing to bury their sons and daughters than to parent them.


Comments

1author50(1121 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Creating real jobs... not government jobs would be a good start.

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2Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

It's the culture and Youngstown is on a roll . Only when they tire of it will it stop . For now it is a way of life for those supported with public funds and 24/7 idle time .

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3VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

It all starts with education. Education in the home, as well as in the schools. The children of today's culture have no desire to complete their education. Education means nothing to them. They want to be out on the street where all the action and excitement is. They want to be part of a gang. They look for acceptance and glory. Violence is the ticket. There is absolutely no motivation to complete their education.

I believe we can solve this through proper motivational management. Upon reaching the age of 16, each child, male and female, must register with a selective service board and then every year must submit their report card to the board as proof they are attending school. In addition, every school must submit to the board a list of those students who are not showing up, or have dropped out. Those who do not submit their report cards, or those who have dropped out will be sent to a military academy for "re-programming". Upon reaching the age of 18, they will then either be sent to the military, or if deemed undesireable, sent off to work the coal mines until they reach 21. I would re-open the mines at Centralia, Pa. and have them dig there. Other public works programs could also be instituted that would involve hard work. The tougher the job, the more motivated students will be to stay in school.

This system is costly and harsh, but the cost is nothing compared to the cost our society is now burdened with. We all agree, current methods are not working and that is the result of no motivation. Let's get them motivated.

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4RustOnMyBelt(119 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

The late Pope John Paul II called it a "culture of death". Look at our shoot-em-up heroes in award-winning theatrical releases. Listen- take the time to listen- to the actual lyrics in some of the music on the station children are listening to. Watch a few of the gagsta videos on television full of bling, pretty girls and the high-life you can have through drugs and poppin' a cap into somebody.The "culture of death" permiates our world in other ways besides blatant disregard for the lives of our neighbors- it slithers its way into euthanasia ,abortion, movies, television and music. Their "heroes" aren't John Wayne types anymore. THIS is also a part (a BIG part) of their world as our children grow up...or not.

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5howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

We need a SEED school here in Youngstown, they are building one in Cincinnati why not here?

http://www.seedfoundation.com/

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6Lifes2Short(3878 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Very excellent article.

""Creating real jobs... not government jobs would be a good start."

You have to want to work and take whatever job you can find. Industries are hiring and it might not be what you want, but it's a job for now. Like censorshiped said, they can't pass the background check or drug screening, so how would a "real" job be any different. You have to look in the mirror and want to better yourself instead of living off the government for free or selling drugs or having babies or carrying guns and murdering people.

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7Silence_Dogood(1388 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

"But there is a common thread that ties all of this mayhem together, and that is a devolving culture in which gun violence becomes almost casual and early death is accepted as a way of life."

"Politicians and police can do little to change a culture — that is the job of other institutions such as schools"

It is this very "CULTURE" that is destroying the Schools in Youngstown.Crack addicted parents send thier little monsters to School for one reason only, that would be the free meals and baby sitting service that the taxpayers provide for free.To these people Schools are just another free handout that they are ungrateful for.If we had the courage to deal with this "culture" we would make it MANDATORY that the parents of failing students MUST attend a Parent /Teacher confrence, they must become involved with thier kids schooling, anything short of an honest effort and the welfare checks would stop flowing.The parents are not involved in these kids lives like a good parent would be, and these idiots need to be forced into action.Take away the WELFARE/ADC/FOOD STAMPS/ect.ect.ect. and you will see how qiuck they change thier ways.

ps. Stan has been saying for eon's that this was a sub-culture, at what point did it get elevated to a culture

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81970mach1(1005 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

"Let the trash eliminate themselves all by themselves. This is a good thing for Ytown. "

And what about the little kids born into this mess? Is it good for them? Will this help them grow up into good citizens? It is NOT their fault they were born into that culture. I certainly don't have the answers .All the trillions spent on welfare etc certainly has not worked. The new schools and trillions spent on "education" has not worked. Maybe free birth control so at least fewer kids are born to suffer into this mess?

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9walter_sobchak(1982 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Silence_Dogood,

As your name implies, you have the wisdom of an elder statesman! You are correct, when you give people something for nothing, with no strings attached, you create this culture as we are telling these people that the government will take care of them. Now, the horse is out of the barn and we are playing hell trying to catch it. My solution goes along with yours; eliminate govt. handouts, demand something for the money, mandate drug testing for recipients, make orphanages for the druggy's children, and JD homes for the criminals!

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10thespookbythedoor(7 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

I am just trying to visualize the identify of the individuals making these comments, especially "censorshiped". What I am visualizing are White "Dunce Hats that cover the face with holes cut out for the eyes and all white sheets covering your clothing. I would really love to see your faces. Your opinion is your opinion but I am just curious to see the faces behind these comments because I wonder if we were in a public forum, would these things be said the way you are typing them or would you make them politically correct? Hmmmmmmm?

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11Silence_Dogood(1388 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

What I am visualizing is a four hundred pound black woman with ten kids all of them half clothed and not having a bath in at least ten days.They are crying because the cool aid ran out four days ago and Rufas just ate the last chicken wing. She is bitching up a storm for that damn government check did not show up today, how in the heck is she going to get her crack today if that damn check don't show up. Well she will just have to risk it and head off to Market street.

How is that for "politically correct"

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12UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

The lack of family moral values amongst the black community is the reason for this whole problem. Until that is solved, all the law enforcement in the world will not stop the gun violence in Youngstown.

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13Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Lets put some value back into life in Youngstown . Productivity is the answer . Generate jobs ! Plenty of low tech jobs can be generated that anyone can do . Let's rebuild the city with city labor ! People that work value themselves along with their paycheck . Perpetual handouts only propagate crime by providing 24/7 idle time .

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14howardinyoungstown(591 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Put them to work cleaning up all of the vacant lots in Youngstown.

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15Lifes2Short(3878 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

spookbythedoor

"What I am visualizing are White "Dunce Hats that cover the face with holes cut out for the eyes and all white sheets covering your clothing."

Why is everything racist? And if you want to go that route, isn't that a racist remark?

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16Valleys_Voice(149 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Spook seems like another proud african-american who doesn't want to take responsibility. Lets face it, we have tried helping the black community for decades and it just seems like they continue to decline, as well as bring down other communities in the process. from crime, drugs, violence, and least of all, oppression. we have given african americans every chance to succeed. I could only wish to go to college for free, and so many african americans just take it for granted. Its just a sad world. Spook, i suggest volunteering at your local church or community and instead of trying to be proud of who "ya'll" are, be proud of who we are. Were all in this together so quit playing the race card, those days are over. We need to collaborate as a community to make it a better place to live. And what better place to start than at home and in your neighborhood.

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17thespookbythedoor(7 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Let me catch my breath from laughing. @Lifes2short, the comments that I have read are all about race. "They" "Them" and etc. clearly refers to minorities. @Silence_dogood, I didn't know that you were a comedian. Actually I'm a Commissioned Officer in the Army and I weigh 140 pounds. "Kool-Aid(correct spelling), chicken, crack, welfare checks, Rufas", blacks are the only ones you identify with those things? Before I wrote my initial comments, these comments were general but I'm glad we are now saying what we truly feel. Most of the comments sound like something a Klansman would say. All races are on welfare, smoke crack and etc. It's sad that you guys are generalizing all blacks in one negative catagory. There are bad people in the community that are comprised of all races. I judge you by your comments, some of which are very racist and ignorant. I love everyone and I do know it takes everyone working together but to know what some of you really think, sickens my stomach. I don't support murder or Planned Parenthood. There are hard working people in every race and I happen to be one of them fighting in an Army for all americans and yes it is very offensive to know that I am sacrificing my life for some of you who still classify blacks as animals and trash. The race card is not played out but SOME conservatives still want to believe that eveyone gets a fair chance. It's evident from some of your comments the way you feel about as a people, we could never get a fair chance. Is it true that most government programs are being taking advantage of but that doesn't mean that there are people that really need those programs, all races. No matter how some of you feel, I still have Youngstown Pride. Things will not change if we keep pointing fingers and don't work together as a community. I know what the factors are and you may never see them or acknowledge them but that doesn't make them untrue. Reading most of these comments are very disappointing but yet eye opening. Eye opening because naively I thought racism was becoming a thing of the past. Yet God Bless you all and thanks!

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18Valleys_Voice(149 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Spook, seeing that your a new member is not surprising. If you think some of these comments are racey, you have another thing coming. Check back in the posts about the Boardman Carnival being shut down and you will find racism. People here are just trying to speak their minds, and it just so happens a lot of them agree that there is a growing trend in african american communities where violence and ignorance walk hand in hand. And I'll be the first to admit, the same thing happens in purely white neighborhoods too, but at a lower rate.

The streets of Youngstown need to be cleaned up. Period. If these criminals werent walking around like dope boys and envying rap artists who gloat about having guns, selling drugs, and robbing people, maybe the crime rate would start to diminish. Don't give these rappers the ability to sway your children in directons more than you can yourself. Stand up, take pride in your family, and start pushing your kids in the right direction.

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19thespookbythedoor(7 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

I don't have a problem with people speaking their mind but please address me by my full user name because I am assuming that there may be some pleasure shortening the user name to Spook. Anyway, Valleys_Voice your two comments seem like night and day. You are right in saying that crime happens everywhere. Some people are so quick to point out rappers but for we forget that people(all races) perpetuate movies and video games as well. Examples, Scarface, Goodfellas, Untouchables, Gone in Sixty Seconds, Departed and etc. Somehow we overlook that these movies are full of violence yet the first ones we blame are rappers. Why is that? No wonder when I went to Mooney, I was looked at and treated like I was there to steal text books, Lol. I agree, the streets need to be cleaned but how do we do something in the community when fingers are constantly pointing and blaming minorities entirely for the state that Youngstown is in. Even in the military and outside the military I continue to face racism that temporarily makes me feel less than human but I am strong and was raised to pay it no mind. I don't deny black on black crime is alarming but once again, if u can't relate, you will never try or want to understand:)

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20Valleys_Voice(149 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

You listen to music in your car, at home, on a picnic, it is played through speakers in stores and at football games. In my opinion, some may agree, music is much more integrated into our daily lives than movies are. I can think of dozens of rappers who fit the bill as a "gangster". These same people are influencing teens and young adults. We point out rappers because they speak their mind through music and if they would ever come clean and say they are "fronting" then they would be "hated on" by their fans. Plus, Movies and video games are a portrayal of fictional characters. I don't think they have as much an impact as musicians. P.S. I live in Youngstown and went to Public Schools, I have a great understanding of the people who attend these schools and what they go through on a daily basis because I went through the same thing.

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21Lifes2Short(3878 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

spookbythedoor

"Let me catch my breath from laughing. @Lifes2short, the comments that I have read are all about race."

Copy and paste the racist remarks. The racist remarks not the facts. And make sure you paste your comment as racist.

"Some people are so quick to point out rappers but for we forget that people(all races) perpetuate movies and video games as well."

As far as rap music, did you ever read the lyrics that these young adults are listening to? Its a shame. Music is suppose to be a art but rap and the heavy screaming metal is far from it. Doing nothing but teaching the kids to hate.

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22thespookbythedoor(7 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Well Censoredship, I appreciate you appreciating my service! Very nice! Music is very powerful and very influential. My opinion of the music rap, pop and etc. nowadays is crap. The generation is full of negative influences but I just don't appreciate how we label one form of art and blame it when movies and video games are influences as well. @ Lifes2Short, I don't deny that my KKK comment was racist but I was just following the pattern already outlined by the veterans writing comments. I really hate the state of our city but let's talk about realistic solutions. I went to Public, Catholic and Christian schools so I can relate on every aspect. The point I am trying to get across is how did we get to this point? It seems as if no one wants to research that question and it needs to be explored. Movies and video games may not be the main source but it is an influence. I am a music lover and I can't stomach most music being played on the airways from Rap to Pop by Hannah Montana. Not all rappers are negative!!! Yet when we discuss negativity it is grouped into a negative category. @Censoredship you talk about black rappers adopting Italian names and disrespecting their lineage. The mobsters did drug pedaling, prostitution, numbers and also assassinations, it that the lineage that you are talking about? White mobsters are glamerous and you don't even acknowledge that some of the rappers(white, black and etc.) were influenced by these guys but I guess that that's okay? It is such a double standard. Mobsters/Mafia did their dirt in a different style but it is all illegal yet some of you just point the fingers at minorities! There are rappers out there with positive messages. Did it ever occur to you that some rap about what they know? That is what movies are usually based on true stories with some fictional undertones. Some are even local rappers. Ed O' Neil and Boom Boom Mancini just completed a documentary on Youngstown about how it still has a chance. TV, Music, surroundings have influences! Well it was nice talking with you guys. I didn't have time to proofread so please don't attribute it to being black trash, uneducated, or etc. Thanks.

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23Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

The posturing over cleaning up Youngstown's crime problems shows that the subculture is deeply rooted and has a high degree of legitimacy .

THE SUBCULTURE VIEWS THIS ARREST AS GOOD !

http://www.msad46.org/Pictures/TCTC/T...

THE SUBCULTURE VIEWS THIS ARREST AS BAD !

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/CRIM...

BUT HEY . . ..

IT'S ALL GOOD !

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24UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

I haven't heard such racist comments since I worked in the steel mills back in the 70's and they told all those fried chicken, watermelon, & Cadillac jokes.

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25Lifes2Short(3878 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

union,thespookbythedoor

Maybe Its going over my head but where are the racist remarks? After re-reading all of the comments I still don't see anything that was so racist except for maybe one.

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26steelwagon(284 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Let's put the blame for this mess where it belongs.
It is not up to the church,schools or any other organization to ground our young people in civil behavior.

Things like respect,discipline,manners and what's right and wrong are or should be taught in the home.
By the time a child enters school he or she should already have a good grounding in these things and have a good idea of what's expected of them.

It's obvious these simple basic norms of society are not being taught in the home.
So with that said it begs the question why ?
Where are the parents ?
What are mom and dad doing to prepare their children to be a decent,civil and productive members of society ?

Everytime I hear the old worn out question....
"What's wrong with these kids today"?
My answer is "look at the parents and the home enviorment.

Is dad living in the home ?
Is either mom or dad employed ?
Is either parent spending time with the child in a productive,learning way ?
Is discipline and or correction being used in an effective and fair way when needed ?

Sadly far to often the answer to these questions is "no"
I know of families where the children don't even know their father(s)
Mom is unemployed or underemployed and completly overwhelmed.

Now throw drugs and alcohol into the mix and the next thing you know is grandma is raising the children or trying to raise them.
Does anyone truly believe children are born bad ?

Of course not but they grow into the enviorment they live in.
When children grow up in an atmosphere where crime and violence are the accepted norm and even glamorized what can we reasonably expect their futures to be ?

We can expect the same cycle to run unbroken for another generation..
Until the family becomes the most important aspect of a childs' life and he or she is seeing and being taught by positive influences the writer of this sad story is 100% correct.
We'll be burying our kids instead of rasing them.

As a parent of two now grown productive adult children that notion truly breaks my heart.

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27VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Trouble in America

Our urban children of today are being given the kiss of death. We are raising them in a violent social environment, with no one willing to change the formula. No help for those growing souls that sponge every little detail out of their daily interaction with life around them.

Trouble can come easily for children, especially boys as they search for the end of their rope. But, as I live nearby and watch 3 grandsons grow, I see parental interaction by mother and father, and I hear the boys say to me, "man, I don't want to do that again!" I try to help, without interfering.

To provide positive feedback and reward them for their work, I pay them for their help. Now, when a boy comes to me and asks, "Do you want me to do anything for you?" I know what the real reason is for his approach. He wants to earn some money. Today however, 2 boys will be mowing grass and they will do it for free because they enjoy the ride.

As long as the boys continue to enjoy the ride, they will continue to avoid the Trouble in America.

Parents and Grandparents cannot be everywhere with their children, but when they are together, its good to know you are adding some additional "detail" to their daily contact with life.

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28Silence_Dogood(1388 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Thespookbythedoor

"@Silence_dogood, I didn't know that you were a comedian. Actually I'm a Commissioned Officer in the Army and I weigh 140 pounds. "Kool-Aid(correct spelling), chicken, crack, welfare checks, Rufas", blacks are the only ones you identify with those things? Before I wrote my initial comments, these comments were general but I'm glad we are now saying what we truly feel. Most of the comments sound like something a Klansman would say. All races are on welfare, smoke crack and etc. It's sad that you guys are generalizing all blacks in one negative catagory."

My comments were a DIRECT response to YOUR comments that people that were posting comments were CLANSMEN "Dunce Hats that cover the face with holes cut out for the eyes and all white sheets covering your clothing"

Now if you would be so kind as to point out the comment in post 1 thru 14 that justified accusing someone of being a clansmanas as you did in post 15 . I would appreciate it.

Being a Military Officer you must at this point have developed an ability for "attention to detail" so we will both agree that the following comment "It's sad that you guys are generalizing all blacks in one negative catagory" was directed at ME and others. So with that said if you would once again point out the comment that I or others have stated were we claim that ALL blacks fall into a negitive catagory.

The SAD fact is that in Youngstown over the last thirty plus years (longer then you have been alive?) the overwhelming majority of the murders have been commited by black men, upwards of 95% of all gun related murders in fact. This by a group of people that represents about 10% or less of the population. I would think we can both agree on these numbers. Now in order to HONESTLY address this issue we have to be candid about it and if that offends you then YOU are not making an HONEST effort to address the problem.
But offense can sometimes be a SELF INFLICTED wound, take for instance refering to oneself as a spook in a screen name and then crying when someone refers to them with that name.

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29Life888(17 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

VINDYAK, making 16 year old males and females register for Selective Service is cruel, but children need to understand that military school is not the right choice! Sending children to military school will harm them!

I am not raising my family in Youngstown because of the violence and the bad schools. Youngstown is a bad city to raise a family!

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30Valleys_Voice(149 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

lol, Youngstown is not a bad city to raise a family. Yes, parts of it are bad, but there is a great wealth of knowledge offered by Youngstown and ALL of it's schools. If your so anti-Youngstown, don't drive through its streets anymore, don't allow your children to interact with other kids from Youngstown, and next time theres a football game at YSU, watch it from home. We don't need wannabe elitists treading our water here. For those of us who believe in Youngstown and want it to grow into a civilized and prosperous city, nows the time to sink or swim.

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31Anonymous1234(2 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

I grew up in Youngstown in the 60's and 70's and it is sad to see it so bad there.

Let me give you some advice...from someone who left Ohio because they actually wanted a job and career and not live in fear of survival. There comes a point even with someone like Labron James that you have to make career choices to reach career heights or stay home. MOVE IF YOU CAN. Youngstown is not coming back. You have cities in China, India and Africa who are growing at a speed you cannot imagine. There's your jobs. Someone has to create new and upcoming industries for now and the future to grow. Youngstown is stuck in the 50's and 60's. You do not understand that a lot of mid to major cities have a Boardman every 3-4 miles apart. Other economies across the U.S. are more vibrant and there are business men in those cities that drive the economy. The culture itself drives the economy in some cities. They are looking for and expecting growth...and get it. There are better pockets of economies elsewhere. It has always been if you were really successful you had to leave Ohio, especially Youngstown. Don't get me wrong, my family is still there along with friends that are good people, but it is hard. Remember...it is wise to have more than one home.

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32Anonymous1234(2 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Also, the racism there will never take Youngstown where it wants to be. Besides a few Hispanics the diversity is zero. Try the experience of living amongst South Americans, Asian, Indian, Hispanic and Middle Eastern as most of your neighborhood along with African American all very progressive. Diversity drives an economy. Because all these cultures need different things therefore they create new restaurants and stores and services. Remember it is a global economy now. Youngstown needs a business that can deliver products to a global economy, "big business" something that is needed and in demand, most likely technology, not steel or even automobiles. But don't put your eggs in one basket...you need many baskets.

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33Lifes2Short(3878 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

1234

"There are better pockets of economies elsewhere. It has always been if you were really successful you had to leave Ohio, especially Youngstown."

And where might this paradise be? I've been around and it's the same no matter where you are. Youngstown is not as bad as you think it is and one day it will move forward.

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34Lizp(2 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

This is crazy and Youngstown is just getting worse. I thought it was bad back in the 1990's when my daughter was coming up. The first time I heard on tv where a group of boys were looking for another boy on the north side, this child's family members were sitting outside and there was a 3yr. old little girl there. Since the boy they were looking for the young man that was talking with the family member said (and I quote) "Well tell him we are looking for him" and he turned and shot the 3yr. old and killed her. That was so sad. When my daughter was coming up I called the Police on her for something she did, when they came out I requested they take her to juvenile, to my shock I was told they only take children who have committed FELONIES. What a slap in the face to parents today who try and keep their children on the right path. I told the officer that I AS A PARENT AM TRYING TO PREVENT MY CHILD FROM GOING IN THAT DIRECTION. Nothing the officer could do. However the good part of this story is that my daughter turned out fine she has children of her own and she is a great mom. I think the court system needs to go backwards to the 70's when they allowed you to discipline your child and they were punished by the courts when it got out of hand at home. Not this craziness of having not only your own child but the other children being allowed to stand and disrespect adults and run wild in the streets. The COURTS have tied the parents hands because now YOU go to JAIL for spanking your child.

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35Bigben(1996 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Censorship is correct about the abortion clinics and Margret Sanger. Understand that there are those beyond politicians who plan for humanity. Who admired ,corresponded with and implemented Sanger's ideas elsewhere?

Welfare is control aimed at capitulation.
If there is no plan then explain private G20 meetings despite major journalists in attendance.

Service jobs are not fit to raise a family on and those who said an unacceptable percentage of inner city youths don't work due to institutionalized welfare are also correct.

The overwhelming majority of
whites are not the enemies of blacks. Iowa voted for Obama in the primary. The races have been duped by the elite.

The education system is not going to help it is intentionally problematic.

Why has corporal punishment and tools which allow learning been removed from public schools ?School boards are neutered via the purse strings held by the Federal Govt who are in turn are beholden to the globalists. It has been designed to fail.

Who made the loans to the slave traders and where did they put their profits? Did you know Sultans and emires of the Middle East sold African Slaves to the whites?

Who is growing the Heroin in Afghanistan while U.S. troops guard it?Google it .A Youtube interview on Fox with Geraldo Rivera shows that they aren't hiding it anymore.

As for political parties there is more agreement than one may think. Do you really think Obama can do what he likes anymore than those who preceded him? Do you think he is really mad at BP? They were huge contributors to his campaign. Both major candidates have been owned since JFK .The real power source is behind the UN.

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36Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Youngstown's culture is a gold mine ! We could destabilize countries around the world by exporting it !

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37starofesther(168 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Words can be life or death...A praying people can cause change because we are going form Mob Town to the Only One True God The Lord Jesus Town!

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38anthonyandanna(2 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

the only solution is "GOD'S KINGDOM" anything less would be a lie, all you have to do is read ps. 37:10,11 to understand god's flawless game plan, it's not just youngstown, the whole world has gone mad, the next time someone knocks at your door, let them in to explain the hope for mankind

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39lbsurfettes(9 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Trade the guns for books,hold people accountable and give them a place to go every day(be it work or school) where they don't feel useless or helpless against the system.

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40Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

lbsurfettes :
"Trade the guns for books"

They already traded the books for crack and the guns are for their protection so the crack doesn't get stolen .

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41YTownBred(30 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Unlike some of the people on here who comment on the culture or "subculture" as i've been hearing it called, I can speak from first hand experience living on the South Side, growing up and interacting with the thug element, and being in life of death situations more than a handful of times.

When there is a lack of guidance in a household, people tend to take the easy path. I had a mother who stayed in my butt to make sure I wasn't doing wrong! My father was somewhat around (when he wasn't in prison) but even he stayed on my case not to follow his example. I also had a real good stepfather who filled in. I was taught to work hard and learn...period. Not only was I taught that, I was shown by example! With that being said, it still boils down to individual choices... I still got myself into trouble, I still got arrested, and I lost almost all of my friends to death or jail!

It did teach me they were right all along. I cleaned up my act before it was too late, got out of the "crab in the barrel" environment, got my degree, a good job, and now give back to the community anyway I can to avoid the same thing from happening to some other young brother.
Let's face it, it is still a great deal of racism in Y-Town, and no matter how much people rant about people looking for handouts, there are plenty people who want to work, but are not given an opportunity to do so.
And for the racists that exist on this forum, hello! Not all blacks are ignorant, pants sagging of their @ss, loud cussing, welfare dependent individuals. The culture will change when the opportunities change in the city. Let's just hope it comes soon..i'm tired of the depressing news.

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42ohdrama0901(53 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Well said YtownBred. You can explain until you're blue in the face but face it; a biggot is a biggot is a biggot and you can't change their views about anything so why even try. With that being said, Greenville in PA is one of the most "hood" neighborhoods in the Valley. If you know anything about Greenville you will know that hardly no blacks live there. The drug problem is out of control, they had several shootings, incest, teen pregnancy, and any other crime and malfunction you can name and just about every other family is on goverment assistance. It's not about your color, it's about the values and morals coming from home and your community. Ignorance is a race all in itself and if you have ignorant raising and breeding ignorant then ignorant is what you're going to get. If you go around building federal housing and everyone wants to change their house to a Section 8 rental so they can get guaranteed rent then you will invite the class of people who will live in these places although not everyone who live in these dwellings are bad people; the bad outweigh the good. I love a racist because they are angry and don't think outside the box and usually are the ones who are left behind and I really love it when one of their children go into the HOOD and bring one of them hoodlums home or a baby from one which seems to be becoming the popular thing I am noticing.

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43YTownBred(30 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

leetorres...

I definately get it, and I can also add to your point of view because you have also added a valuable point to the discussion.

I was told at a young age that anything worth having is never really easy to obtain...Yes there will be a sure fire mapped out plan to achieve what you want, but there will be obstacles. Many people in the town DO want the easy way out and don't want to work hard to achieve anything.

But...There are also some very hypocritical statements in your arguement as well. You keep saying "You", and "Your"... I too am a taxpayer. I no longer live in Youngstown (hence the name YTOWN Bred), but am still very much a part of it. I own my own home, have served my country, and continue to give back to the community by volunteering whenever I come back to Youngstown.

At 31, I am still relatively young ,but still know a lot of the nuckle-heads doing the same ole stuff they were doing when we were teens. I don't associate or subject my children to they're way of thinking. I do however tell them they need to be a more positive role model when I see them. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it".

There are plenty people who set out to volunteer, help clean up, and even try to rid the scum from their neighborhood. My entire family from grandma, to uncles aunts and cousins don't tollerate riff-raff hanging around their properties, and take pride in their homes. I can't count how many times they've called the Health Department, or the Police on neighbors (dopehouses and nasty folks) who moved in the area and started bringing down property value! Even when I lived in Youngstown I have Never been the type waiting on a handout, I always found some type of work...glorious or not.

All i'm saying is, it's not fair to generalize a whole group of people on a some peoples actions. There are still a lot of good people in the town, but when they get overshadowed by all the bureaucracy and crime coverage, who would know that?

Other than that, yes handouts seem to be a measure used to pacify complaints of no jobs and discrimination. I don't like it. It comes out of my pockets too. No matter how you look at it, You can polish a turd, but it's still S#!t!

Hope we can get YTown fixed.

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44danikytn(248 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

you can create jobs, but not work ethic, you cant create morals, or standards or values, all things sorely lacking in this area. these people or creatures are merely products of their environments and dismal upbringings, doomed to repeat the vicious cycle. until we want better for ourselves we wont achieve better for ourselves, and these hoodlums seem perfectly content with the way they are...

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45Bigben(1996 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

danikytn-I agree that the cycle continues.I don't think the criminals are content though.I think they are without hope.

Kids need dads and intact families.If they don't receive discipline ,guidance and feel valued they will seek reassurance with the wrong crowd.

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46OldDays(3 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

This is an example of thoughtful journalism that the Vindicator used to be known for. An article that generates thought and discussion. When Murder becomes a way of life who's to blame? Boardman, steel mills closing, bad parenting, the economy, Youngstown City Schools, crack addicts, the Mayor, Obama, Stan? When I read the news that is reported and the reaction that follows I can only come to one conclusion. None of us has the answer! The "good old days" are all good old gone. The city of Youngstown is steeped in violence and has been for decades. What has changed is the population and the breakdown in community. Murder is not OK or a way of life. Contrary to popular belief blacks in Youngstown do not enjoy living amongst murderers and violence. There is a paralyzing fear that blankets the city and keeps people from trusting each other. Those that live on the outskirts of the city feel that they are not part of the problem and will do nothing to help. Those that live in the city are doing just that, trying to live! Murders will happen because people make poor decisions. Youngstown will not make a positive turn around without its citizens involvement.

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47Lifes2Short(3878 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

There are opportunities for young adults in the community. First off go to school, stay in school and get a education. Play varsity sports, join clubs in school, etc. Graduate from High School, pursue a college education, there are tons of grants and loans and scholarships to get through college, if you have to work somewhere then so be it, fast food and other businesses do work around your schedule, especially a college student, join college sports and clubs. Volunteer for something.
If college is not for you join the military.
It boils down to the individual and what that person wants to be. If they want to blame the system there whole life then so be it, be miserable and drugged up and in jail and prison the rest of your life or do something about it. Sure life is tough but the choice is all on you.
All you have to do is look in the mirror and want to be successful. Not blame everything and everyone.

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48Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

I have studied the decay of the city . When crack cocaine hit the city the decay took off like wildfire . Talk to the pillars of the subculture on the Southside and they will tell you who is to blame . HINT: Jamar Houser killed one of the ones who they blame .

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49anthonyandanna(2 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

could it be, that the person is just rotten to the bone? you hear it all the time "I GONNA FLIP NO BURGERS", plus when was the last time a sane, moral person up and killed someone because he didn't have a job? think about sodom and gommarah, god destroyed those cities not because he didn't first try to save them, THEY WERE ROTTEN TO THE BONE

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50dbarnett714(7 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

hey, what are you guys arguing for?? Havent you heard? We all have a NEW enemy now!! MEXICANS!! GET WITH THE PROGRAM!

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51dbarnett714(7 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

I have a an idea for solving all of these problems...INVADE IRAQ

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52Bigben(1996 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

International Banks /Corps.-the rest are their whores and puppets.

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53Bigben(1996 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

dbarnett -Can't do that for a while the troops are guarding the opium fields in Afghanistan for the globalists.Got to keep the profits coming before further invasions are undertaken .What were you thinking?

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54seminole(476 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Wow, there are so many places to start, but I must agree with Danikytn, again, and BigBen and Stan.

Danikytn is right. It is a cycle that perpetuates itself from day one when the parents do no set any example for morals, manners, work ethic, as they themselves never had proper examples. The handouts perpetuate this cycle as well. WHy work when you can exist on section 8 housing and welfare? The crime stems from the hatred these kids are taught as well. There is no regard for life. The judicial system is so ineffective that these people know they will get minimal jail time for taking someones life. Even more sad is that when they get back on the street they are held with high esteem by the next group pf thugs that have rolled through the cycle. Think back to the "old days": when you killed someone you either paid "an eye for an eye" or you were jailed for life. The penalities have become so politically correct (actually incorrect) that things are spun around ass-backwards. And those of us that work and try to live a safe life have to deal with this day in and day out. As Stan and I have related before it is time to arm yourselves and take back the streets of your neighborhoods.

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55ELVISNIXONdotCOM(10 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

This INDEPENDENCE DAY ask yourself IF Americans will still fight for liberty as we did against Hitler?
WHY would we when Obama AMNESTY grants citizenship to VIOLENT gangbangers and thugs who HATE Americans and REFUSE to speak and learn our language??

IS This still true?:

http://elvisnixon.com/2010/07/02/is-t...

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56madman(50 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

youngstown will not get any better .and some say why? the peops can t come togetter on anything its all politics. its do as we say not as what we do!

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57atek101(77 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Youngstown isn't the problem; attitudes throughout the Valley have a lot to do with the perpetuation of violent crime.

It's easy to sit in the suburbs and point fingers, but suburbanites are as much to blame as any 'thug' in the inner-city for the cycle of crime, violence, and discrimination that perpetuates in this community.

We need to come together as a whole community and actively change our culture to put an end to violent crime.

We have to let go of the hatred, ignorance, and discrimination that has defined our community since the steel days, and try to find common ground between people from different backgrounds and walks of life.

Youngstown, and the Valley as a whole, will not get better if people keep blabbering on about how it won't get better instead of actually doing something about it.

We all want and deserve a safe place to live, no matter what neighborhood you live in. We need to work together, urbanite and suburbanite alike, and work to make this happen.

Why don't we start by using this discussion to talk about what we can do as a community to change our culture of violence?

What are your thoughts about how we can get residents together from all across the Valley to talk about the tough issues pertaining to violent crime?

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58Lifes2Short(3878 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

."We have to let go of the hatred, ignorance, and discrimination that has defined our community since the steel days, and try to find common ground between people from different backgrounds and walks of life."

Tell that to the young animals that don't give a sh@#4 about anything and seem to always have a gun handy. Has nothing to do with hatred, ignorance or discrimination, it has to do with the youngsters that would rather do drugs,steal,rob and kill then be productive members of society.

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59ammielittke(6 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

It's such a shame Youngstown has such a plague surrounding it. Most of the people are rather kind and generous, and are extremely family-oriented. Too many use violence to express their anger... A society cannot work like that.

You cannot just kill a person for parking in "your" spot at work.

You cannot just gun down a little girl because she bounced a ball into your yard.

Sure, it has to start at home, but ultimately, it's the person's decision to pull the trigger and change their own life forever.

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60northsideart(111 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Shhhhhh...We're supposed to pretend that everything in Y-town is okay.

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61atek101(77 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

So none of you can answer my question with a serious and thoughtful response?

It seems that pretty much proves my point.

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62southsidedave(4867 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

If you don't like what is happening in Youngstown, do something to help with positive changes or move away. But don't bash other people when you don't understand their problems.

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