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Ruling on Coitsville education in dispute

Published: Wed, June 9, 2010 @ 12:10 a.m.

State to appeal division of Youngstown district




The Ohio State Board of Education will appeal a Franklin County Common Pleas Court ruling that would allow Coitsville Township to break away from the Youngstown City School District.

A spokeswoman for the Ohio Department of Education said the board has voted to challenge the May 21 ruling by Judge Patrick Sheeran that overturned the board’s February 2009 denial of the request by the Concerned Citizens for Quality Education to divide Coitsville Township between the Hubbard and Lowellville school districts.

The appeal will go to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals.

It was the fourth time since the early 1970s that the group sought to separate from the Youngstown school system.

The Youngstown Board of Education has opposed those requests, and Anthony Catale, board president, said Youngstown would appeal the most recent case if the state board did not.

The Concerned Citizens group said the switch would benefit the 63 school-age children living in the township by allowing them to attend either Hubbard or Lowellville schools, both of which are rated as academically excellent by the state. Youngstown was in academic watch when the request was filed in 2008 but has since dropped into academic emergency.

“Ultimately, this court must do what is best for all the students involved,” Judge Sheeran wrote in his opinion.

The court downplayed the economic impact that the loss of about one-quarter of the Youngstown school district would mean to the city schools and pointed out that 55 of the Coitsville students already are attending Hubbard, Lowellville or Struthers schools through open enrollment.

Evidence showed only eight were still attending Youngstown schools, and nowhere in the state’s list of reasons for denying the property transfer did it show that Youngstown can provide a superior or even an equal educational experience, the judge said.

Youngstown has said it would lose $145,000 in annual state-foundation funds for students and $607,000 in annual real-estate taxes received from Coitsville if the township goes to Hubbard and Lowellville.


1ytownsteelman(680 comments)posted 6 years ago

Proof that Youngstown City Schools are in it for the money, the children be damned!

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2Realist(62 comments)posted 6 years ago

Youngstown is already losing north of $300k for the students from Coitsville that open enroll to other schools and losing an additional $750k would be devastating for the children that currently attend Youngstown City Schools.

Do some research before making your comments.

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3PXGhost(51 comments)posted 6 years ago

They wouldn't lose $750,000, but rather the $145,000 in state-foundation funds ONLY. The rest would be made up by the rest of the remaining district tax payers (As Judge Sheeran pointed out in the 23 page detailed judgement). As for the loss from open enrollment: they wouldn't lose that money if they provided a decent education. Period.

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4Realist(62 comments)posted 6 years ago


It would depend if Youngstown has fixed rate or fixed sum levies (emergency). Their fixed rate levies will absolutely lose tax dollars while their fixed sum levies amounts would be redistributed throughout the taxing district. I do not know the collection rate in the Youngstown City School District but I will assume that even a redistribution of fixed sum levies will still not be paid because people aren't paying their taxes now.

As far as providing a decent education for their students, you can't put all of the blame on the school district. You have to look at the child's home life. If the parents are not supportive I don't care who you put in the classroom to teach the kids, they will still not achieve to their potential.

Every large urban school district in this state is having the same problems that Youngstown has had and will continue to have.

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5mrblue(1175 comments)posted 6 years ago

Y-town schools have more problems than just money. The parents are a big problem because many do not care. The administration also has to back the teachers when kids don't follow the rules. Y-town schools have a weak administration top to bottom. To bad, because the majority of students want to learn but can't because of the distractions. Unruly kids--parents that don't care--weak administration. You can't learn in that environment.

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6goodoledays(17 comments)posted 6 years ago

who cares about y-town schools. i sure as hell don't. once again...the cry me a river card. my children reside in coitsville and do attend lowellville and will continue to. as far y-town schools...demo the things..all of them. the money is a really disgraceful reason for the appeal...again !!!! you people in the surrounding areas need to shut the hell up ... your kids are getting a good education as long as there not in y-town schools. im paying them very hard earned tax dollars and they keep lining there pockets with it. its a principle thing and my children deserve the best education available. my property taxes almost doubled in the last 2 years. nothing in y-town schools is worth a penny of mine. this is beyond a joke....its a disgrace !! my property is worth nowhere near what they say it is these days but i will never see a decrease in my property taxes. between schools, mill creek park, libraries, and many many more ive had enough. i cant even pay my taxes with a check anymore. that tells me there is absolutely no trust in youngstown so why in the hell would i want my children in the bullet crack infested nothing but trouble school of y-town. parents are so uneducated they make me sick. you cant even have a conversation with them unless its about dope or stealing. we will break away and when we do....you will never get coitsville in your mitts again except for trash talk. pres of y-town board of education...hmmmm.....you really need to learn to just shut your mouth. you my friend are making it worse. let the courts decide and stop threatening us with this i would appeal anyway.....threaten your students...oh yeah...you cant.....they will shot your ass !!! chicken all talk useless waste of board member !!!!!!and we gotta pay you to boot...what a joke...go home and lock your doors and shut up !!!

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7goodoledays(17 comments)posted 6 years ago

oh yeah realist, spend your inheritance or what little you got saved for your children and donate then to the failing y-town school district. i can care less how much youngstown loses. they dont deserve 5 cents from anyone. you my friend probably are retired and on the homstead act or live in a retirement home or maybe just a plain old bum that doesnt have to keep absorbing youngstowns faulting school system. you probably dont pay a dime to anything. if you do.....them god bless you but dont sit there and tell us all about youngstown losing money. make the businesses take the hit instead of the residence all the time. sooner or later it will come to a head and just for the record if youngstown didnt sell there overdue property taxes to american tax funding they would have been a ghost town several years ago. wake up......they always take the easy road and just add it to the bill...my bill....sick of it...you should be to !!!!!!

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8walter_sobchak(2672 comments)posted 6 years ago


Come on - please, open up and tell us how you really feel! Seriously, I can't blame you for beeing so upset. The YCS is a sucking money pit. There is no way, NO WAY, I would ever let my children attend the schools. I understand the problem with the bad parents of kids, but at the end of the day, it is your own children that will suffer the most. Too many good families are caught in the same quagmire as you, paying high property taxes on property that is constantly devalued due to the poor performance of the school system. The state needs to totally reconfigure the way schools operate and are funded. But, it already may be too late. As for your own situation, do whatever you have to do to get your kids educated.

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9aljimi(47 comments)posted 6 years ago

I wish that the people who support this appeal would actually look at the amount of money we have to pay to Youngstown schools in taxes.We pay nearly double of what it would cost for another district. I personally pay over $ 250 a month in taxes for this district on top of my other property taxes. This is an absurd amount for the worst system in the state. Dumping money has been proven not to work in this school district.

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10disgustedjoker(49 comments)posted 6 years ago

I am appaulled at this decision! Ninety eight percent of the kids that live in Coitsville dont attend Youngstown schools, have NEVER attended Youngstown schools, therefore do not qualify for the voucher. This leaves us with the burden of either paying high tuition at mooney or ursuline or trying to get in to a quality school system through open enrollment. How is this fair to us? How is it fair that we, as taxpayers, are not afforded the same option as those in Youngstown? But, you'll take my tax dollars and the school system has never provided my child an education. What about our kids? Why would anyone in their right mind want to hold any child back from receiving a better education? Its only going to benefit the community as a whole in the long run! Again, I dont know why Im asking these questions because its always been about the all mighty dollar in Youngstown and not about the kids. We may need the money to build another school or give the superintendent another raise at the expense of those who wish to better themselves. Not only that, Youngstown does not even have a high school in close proximity of most of these houses. Campbell, Hubbard and Lowellville are with 1- 2 miles from most of these homes. Makes no sense to me at all. Why would ANYONE want to send their child to the worst school district in the STATE OF OHIO when we are sitting beside several excellent school districts. With that being said, why doesnt the Youngstown Board of Education worry about cleaning up the system and figuring out how they can educate these children in a safe environment and then maybe residents wouldnt be fleeing to different districts.

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11disgustedjoker(49 comments)posted 6 years ago

Dont get me wrong, I do feel bad for the kids that are stuck in this system. I feel bad for those who want to learn and can not as one of you said in an earlier post because the Administration has a high tolerance for unruly, disruptive students. The good kids are the ones that suffer. Throw the thugs out. And dont give me the bull that they will only run to the streets and that would be worse. Who are you kidding? They're already on the streets! Sooner or later, they'll have to face the law and spend their days behind a cell so why put those in jeopardy who could actually learn something... Time to change the system and put a zero tolerance policy in place and enforce it!

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12goodoledays(17 comments)posted 6 years ago

now thats what im saying just better said .... god job disgustedjoker. i to pay 250 a month. i can rent a crack house in the heart of youngstown for that much. yeah i made the choice to live elsewhere and yeah i also made the choice to give my childen a shot at life outside a jail cell. if youngstown wants anyones respect from the surrunding communites then i strongly recommend firing every single person in the system and start with the board. i feel if you want to belong to the board of education then you should do it for free. i mean after all...i go to work everyday for free just about. im getting legally raped by youngstown. hire retired elderly people with morals and values and maybe you just might change the attitude of your students and the surrunding areas. after all is said and done......the parents are simply irresponsible and they are giving there children no chance as long as they are in the youngstown school district. start at the top and it can be changed for the good of the children...not for the glory of saying im on the board. shame on you all...they need to have a class on how to cope with depression and failure because thats all they learn in ycs. its a lost cause until the right people get in there. money has nothing to do with it. its the morale of the board and the teachers. good luck

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13disgustedjoker(49 comments)posted 6 years ago

Someone needs to do some research on how much money they are losing due to the voucher system! Thousands, I mean thousands of Youngstown kids have applied for the voucher program so that they too can have a better education. But, thats ok, right? Add it up and then get back to me before you appeal a decision that would benefit an innocent child!

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14Education_Voter(1153 comments)posted 6 years ago

I agree about the vouchers, disgustedjoker. Let's end that before we pretend to be worried about losing Coitsville dollars. And Catholic/Christian schools: it really hurts when you turn down applicants for vouchers because the students are already your customers. (They prefer to give them to students who are not already in the system, knowing they can still get the dollars from current families.)
I get your frustration Coitsville, but a couple of things bug me. 1. Why reward Lowellville in the end for further segregating the valley? How is it that given the number of students they take from a 80% Black district, Lowellville remains 99% White? 2. Why aren't these miniature districts like Campbell and Lowellville already combined in this state? 3. Why don't they break up the Youngstown District so that the high poverty/minority students aren't concentrated within one township? and finally 4. What will it take to get residents like Aljimi to realize that other townships pay the same taxes or more?

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15disgustedjoker(49 comments)posted 6 years ago

I understand the poverty issue but remember, we did not create the disaster in the younstown school district. So why punish the children? I bust my butt, everyday, to provide my kids a better life. I work hard. That's why Im not poverty stricken! Every individual in the Youngstown school district has the same opportunity as I did, it's the choice they made. And the separation issue makes no sense to me. These children are not attending the Youngstown school system now so why is it an issue? The facts and issues surrounding the school system is something that the residence of coitsville have no control over. Facts are facts and I see no need to push these kids to the WORST school system in the state of ohio!

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16disgustedjoker(49 comments)posted 6 years ago

As I said before, clean up the district. Why doesnt someone from the Board of Education call a school like Lowellville or Campbell and ask them what they would do when problems arise. Those schools tolerate no crap from these kids. That's why they have a great rating and have successful children in their districts. Youngstown needs to take action quickly because even though my kids will never step foot in that school, I do feel bad for those who are trapped in this hell.

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17Realist(62 comments)posted 6 years ago

A couple of things:

When you bought your home in Coitsville you probably knew that Youngstown was the educating school district. Now your upset because your taxes are increasing but what you probably don't realize is that your taxes will probably increase again because Hubbard and Lowellville have higher tax rates than Coitsville. I'm not sure why your so upset because if your kid already goes to one of these schools through open enrollment, $5,700 is going to the educating district and if your only paying $3,000 in taxes (which not all of that is school taxes) you are making out in the deal.

You always have the option of moving to a better school district but YOU choose to live where you live. Before I moved my family I researched the area school system to make sure my children received the best education. I too would not want my children going to a school system like that.

By the way, I am nowhere near the age of retirement (prob 25 years away) and pay all of my own bills.

You make it sound so simple for YCS to call a Lowellville or Campbell and ask how to make the kids behave. But you are talking about two completely different animals here. Again I say that without a strong family support system at home the success of a student will be more difficult.

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18PXGhost(51 comments)posted 6 years ago


$5,700 for open enrollment is nothing compared to what YCS gets! On average, between Federal, State and Local funds, YCS gets on average 15,484.38 per student!! That means, for every student YCS loses to open enrollment, YCS gets $9,784.38 to NOT TEACH that child!!

By providing a substandard education, YCS can extort parents into open enrollment so YCS can spend more on less.

Coitsville township doesn't want to be a part of such a poorly run school (both financially and academically), and THEY can choose to seperate from the school district. With any luck, the 10th appellate district will uphold this court's decision!

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19Education_Voter(1153 comments)posted 6 years ago

If the township as a whole wants to make an agreement with a different township to fulfill their education requirements, when doing so will increase their taxes, I can't see forcing them to stay.
You are however wrong about some of the things you say about school finance. The local school does not get funding for kids who are not there. That is why schools are forced to have an actual physical head count for a week in the fall called "ADM" week. This is a week when schools try their best to have every enrolled student actually show up for the count. Schools then receive funding based on the students in the school, not the open enrollment students. The presence of the open enrollment students increases the ADM count at the receiving school.

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20goodoledays(17 comments)posted 6 years ago

realist. i already stated its not about the money. my taxes doubled and i pay them but i would like to atleast say i live in a distict that isnt a disgusting joke. a disgrace to all surrounding areas. i went to flordia year ago and when i said i was from youngstown people practically ran and hid. its a stereo type that is true. very true. ycs is a waste of all our tax dolars. i dont care if my taxes triple. its all about the fact that ycs has absolutely nothing to offer any child except disgrace in there future. you obviously live in a hole or you would know this. its common knowledge across the country. if you want to get on with this then read all the posts. back in the 1950's lowellville went from 224 to 422. it was annexed to y-town and poland twp. it was suppose to be for the betterment and the future generations to prosper and grow. the problem is youngstown has declined while the surrounding area has grown and prospered. look at boardman. 1950 people never even heard of boardman. if ytown would have done something right then it would have grown instead of falling apart. ytown needs to give back the area to its rightful owner. after 60 years of screwing everyone thats the least they can do. now they want some of austintown boardman and already took some of girard. and dont give me the bull about jobs. thats a joke and very misrepresented. problem is the general public is not to smart. we owe ytown nothing. give back the land and its people to its rightful owners and the problem is solved. like i said...its not the money on our end but it is on ytowns end. money to teach our children absolutely nothing. wake up

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21goodoledays(17 comments)posted 6 years ago

and just for the record...my home would be worth 500,000 if it was anywhere but unfortunately its connected to ytown and there school system. which makes my property worth about 150 at best. i would gladly pay thousands more for taxes just to say i am not affiliated with ytown. face it man...ytown is a waste....period. and yes i knew the kids would go to ycs but i also knew i could get them into open enrollment. all we are asking for is just due....give us our rights back and let us go where we belong. i would be more than happy to belong to ycs if they had the ability to teach and PROTECT OUR CHILDREN but the facts are they cant..period. you must not have any kids...and if you do...good luck. they will move out as soon as they can. if they are smart they will but i doubt it if they are going to ycs. they will learn how to fight, steal, drugs, sell drugs and spend there summer nights getting rear ended in county jail. but hey...to each his own ... good luck with that !!!

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22Education_Voter(1153 comments)posted 6 years ago

Give me a break. Goodoledays claims his property is worth a half-million, and that he got it for less than half of that value. (Remember that the value he doesn't like as a seller was just great as a buyer.)
Has Coitsville made any investment in township infrastructure at all? Property taxes would support all township services, but I don't know that there are any in Coitsville.

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23Education_Voter(1153 comments)posted 6 years ago

To LOL, post 16:
I wanted someone else to make that clear to DisgustedJoker. (Quote:"As I said before, clean up the district. Why doesnt someone from the Board of Education call a school like Lowellville or Campbell and ask them what they would do when problems arise. Those schools tolerate no crap from these kids. " Post 18)
He and Goodoledays will criticize YCS employees while touting the effectiveness of outlying districts whose employees never claimed to be able to do a better job with Y-town's challenging students.
(Well, they were glad to take on Anthony Smith, Maurice Clarett, etc., so there are exceptions for special talents only.)

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24goodoledays(17 comments)posted 6 years ago

i never said what i paid for my home. i said what its currently worth now. 150k now. if it where in canfireld or boardman easily 500k. read it fool. replacement cost is 440k....hmmm....interesting that the replacement cost is almost 3 x's its value. and i never said what i would sell it for either. the point is my property taxes doubled in the last 2 years...have yours ??? didnt think so. i know it all dont go for the schools. it also goes to the libraries and mill creek park that i also cant enjoy without bringing a gun with me. the only reason why ycs has "challenging students" is cause they are either all cracked up or all beat up. the teachers are afraid of the kids there. i personally know 2 teachers there and they are scared to say anything to those kids. and i cant see how you can say other schools never claimed to do a better job...oh wait...they dont have to take claim...the tests and the state says it for them. i may not be the smartest guy in the world but if you want to compare then you are going to lose all day long. there is no comparrison. special talents...clarett....hmmmm...isnt he in jail....just like most will be. its not only the schools ... its the upbringing and something that most parents in ysc lack....its called pride. proud of your child....not mad because hes about to turn 18 and you cant collect welfare off him anymore....they teach there kids this and thats the bottom line

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25disgustedjoker(49 comments)posted 6 years ago

Education Voter: I never once blamed the employees for the problems. Frankly, I could care less what you and your adminstration do to solve it. Just dont hold my children back from receiving a quality education due to someone elses inability to administer a distict. Ive mentioned the Board over and over. Dont throw money at the problems, dont build new schools until you figure out how to correct the corrupt and unsafe environment you people seem to tolerate. Stop making excuses, not interested in hearing them!!! Just leave the hard working people of coitsville out of your infested district and give us the freedom to enjoy a good education for all the children out here. And, by the way, if we could sell our homes and move, we would. But remember, we live in the WORST SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE STATE OF OHIO! Its a tragedy to even think you would try to debate this with anyone! How can you try to turn our wishes for a better future in to a courtroom battle!!!!

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26disgustedjoker(49 comments)posted 6 years ago

hey goodoledays, I personally know a teacher in the Youngstown School District that got the living crap beat out of her for trying to make a child sit in their seat and not disrupt the class. She was taken to the emergency room! Guess what, that child was in the same classroom the next week with her being forced to teach that child! Ask Campbell, Lowellville, Poland, Struthers, Hubbard, etc... what they would have done with that student! But we will make excuse after excuse why the district is allowed to financially and academically ruin the system! This is what Im speaking of when I ask you to mirror other districts and enforce a no tolerance policy!

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27aljimi(47 comments)posted 6 years ago

Dear education voter:
please get your facts straight and do just a little research on the amount of taxes paid by Coitsville residents.Many other twps. don't pay nearly as much as we do to support the worst school district in the area.If my home was in poland twp. or canfield twp. my taxes for the school would be nearly cut in half.Just do a little research before you spout off.also if you looked into this at all a house on rt.616 in youngstown is tax appraised at less than half of a similar house in coitsville within the same country block.Therefore taxes are much greater.

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28seminole(476 comments)posted 6 years ago

Yee Haw!!! You all are going at it hard and heavy. Yea, the taxes are ridiculous for what you all are getting in YCS, which, from what I have seen and from what I have read in these posts, is a definitive lack of education and a definitive mode of survival for the teachers. I have been in these schools and seen it first hand. These kids stroll through the halls like they don't have a schedule, all late for class, talking smack, cussing, biligerant. They disrespect the teachers without a thought. It comes from the culture and home-life, we all get that. I realize there are good kids, kids that want an education, who are respectful, but the majority of these kids are looking for a handout like moms got. It's sad but the reality of it is that YCS needs to be shut down and reformed under state control. Who the hell is going to miss it in it's current status? Dr Wendy did a bang-up job for all the money she robbed the district for in her salary. I sympathize with you all that suffer under this attrocity. We pay a decent amount in Boardman but, mark my words, it will be YCS within 10 years as urban sprawl creeps faster and faster. This area will be the next Cleveland, which will be the next Detroit. The flow keeps rolling down from Dtown to Ytown.

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29Education_Voter(1153 comments)posted 6 years ago

Notice that when the posters get going on a good rant, they totally disregard the fact that I support their right to join whatever district they want.

Here in Cornersburg, I didn't pay a half-million for my property, and I don't expect to sell it with a huge profit either. Check the property taxes of my neighbors in Austintown, Boardman, and Canfield. Y-town's levy is scheduled to end in two years, unlike those districts.

I do believe that Youngstown township residents should be able to shift our responsibility for educating our youngsters to the surrounding townships, and pay for them, as Coitsville does. As Coitsville's case demonstrates, we should also be allowed to choose the districts that our students would attend.

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30Bigben(1996 comments)posted 6 years ago

Seminole much of what you say is spot on.Boardman however does not have open enrollment.Austintown however does have open enrollment.

Urban sprawl is a term used to describe the needless destruction of rural land as urbanization spreads.Since there is no rural land in Boardman a more correct term would be urban blight.As we speak boardman has an excellent rating .i'm hoping it stays that way into the forseeable future.

As for the folks wanting out of the Ytown schools - - -they have my best wishes.

Those schools are a hole and it isn't the teachers believe me it is the way the kids are raised or not raised.I'm still trying to figure out why millions upon millions of dollars have been spent building all these new schools.Obviously throwing money at it has not helped foster pride ect.Morals are what are needed.

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31Lark(9 comments)posted 6 years ago

Does anyone want to send their children to Youngstown Publlic Schools? When a local television station wanted to come into the schools and have a look at the hallways and classrooms, Dr. Webb banned them....wonder why!

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32Education_Voter(1153 comments)posted 6 years ago

Well to be fair, no other district would like that either. Schools do not let unlimited or uncontrolled pictures of children in the media. Parents quite rightly insist on control of their child's image.
But seriously, do you think the Coitsville decision sets a precedence for sections of Youngstown joining other districts? Maybe someone from Coitsville could answer: would students be split between the Hubbard and Lowellville districts by address or by choice?
Why was Campbell Local Schools not considered? They have an excellent rating.

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