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Ruling on Coitsville education in dispute



Published: Wed, June 9, 2010 @ 12:10 a.m.

State to appeal division of Youngstown district

By HAROLD GWIN

gwin@vindy.com

YOUNGSTOWN

The Ohio State Board of Education will appeal a Franklin County Common Pleas Court ruling that would allow Coitsville Township to break away from the Youngstown City School District.

A spokeswoman for the Ohio Department of Education said the board has voted to challenge the May 21 ruling by Judge Patrick Sheeran that overturned the board’s February 2009 denial of the request by the Concerned Citizens for Quality Education to divide Coitsville Township between the Hubbard and Lowellville school districts.

The appeal will go to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals.

It was the fourth time since the early 1970s that the group sought to separate from the Youngstown school system.

The Youngstown Board of Education has opposed those requests, and Anthony Catale, board president, said Youngstown would appeal the most recent case if the state board did not.

The Concerned Citizens group said the switch would benefit the 63 school-age children living in the township by allowing them to attend either Hubbard or Lowellville schools, both of which are rated as academically excellent by the state. Youngstown was in academic watch when the request was filed in 2008 but has since dropped into academic emergency.

“Ultimately, this court must do what is best for all the students involved,” Judge Sheeran wrote in his opinion.

The court downplayed the economic impact that the loss of about one-quarter of the Youngstown school district would mean to the city schools and pointed out that 55 of the Coitsville students already are attending Hubbard, Lowellville or Struthers schools through open enrollment.

Evidence showed only eight were still attending Youngstown schools, and nowhere in the state’s list of reasons for denying the property transfer did it show that Youngstown can provide a superior or even an equal educational experience, the judge said.

Youngstown has said it would lose $145,000 in annual state-foundation funds for students and $607,000 in annual real-estate taxes received from Coitsville if the township goes to Hubbard and Lowellville.


Comments

1ytownsteelman(652 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Proof that Youngstown City Schools are in it for the money, the children be damned!

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2Realist(62 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Youngstown is already losing north of $300k for the students from Coitsville that open enroll to other schools and losing an additional $750k would be devastating for the children that currently attend Youngstown City Schools.

Do some research before making your comments.

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3PXGhost(51 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

@Realist
They wouldn't lose $750,000, but rather the $145,000 in state-foundation funds ONLY. The rest would be made up by the rest of the remaining district tax payers (As Judge Sheeran pointed out in the 23 page detailed judgement). As for the loss from open enrollment: they wouldn't lose that money if they provided a decent education. Period.

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4Realist(62 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

PXGhost

It would depend if Youngstown has fixed rate or fixed sum levies (emergency). Their fixed rate levies will absolutely lose tax dollars while their fixed sum levies amounts would be redistributed throughout the taxing district. I do not know the collection rate in the Youngstown City School District but I will assume that even a redistribution of fixed sum levies will still not be paid because people aren't paying their taxes now.

As far as providing a decent education for their students, you can't put all of the blame on the school district. You have to look at the child's home life. If the parents are not supportive I don't care who you put in the classroom to teach the kids, they will still not achieve to their potential.

Every large urban school district in this state is having the same problems that Youngstown has had and will continue to have.

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5mrblue(1115 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Y-town schools have more problems than just money. The parents are a big problem because many do not care. The administration also has to back the teachers when kids don't follow the rules. Y-town schools have a weak administration top to bottom. To bad, because the majority of students want to learn but can't because of the distractions. Unruly kids--parents that don't care--weak administration. You can't learn in that environment.

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6goodoledays(17 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

who cares about y-town schools. i sure as hell don't. once again...the cry me a river card. my children reside in coitsville and do attend lowellville and will continue to. as far y-town schools...demo the things..all of them. the money is a really disgraceful reason for the appeal...again !!!! you people in the surrounding areas need to shut the hell up ... your kids are getting a good education as long as there not in y-town schools. im paying them very hard earned tax dollars and they keep lining there pockets with it. its a principle thing and my children deserve the best education available. my property taxes almost doubled in the last 2 years. nothing in y-town schools is worth a penny of mine. this is beyond a joke....its a disgrace !! my property is worth nowhere near what they say it is these days but i will never see a decrease in my property taxes. between schools, mill creek park, libraries, and many many more ive had enough. i cant even pay my taxes with a check anymore. that tells me there is absolutely no trust in youngstown so why in the hell would i want my children in the bullet crack infested nothing but trouble school of y-town. parents are so uneducated they make me sick. you cant even have a conversation with them unless its about dope or stealing. we will break away and when we do....you will never get coitsville in your mitts again except for trash talk. pres of y-town board of education...hmmmm.....you really need to learn to just shut your mouth. you my friend are making it worse. let the courts decide and stop threatening us with this i would appeal anyway.....threaten your students...oh yeah...you cant.....they will shot your ass !!! chicken all talk useless waste of board member !!!!!!and we gotta pay you to boot...what a joke...go home and lock your doors and shut up !!!

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7goodoledays(17 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

oh yeah realist, spend your inheritance or what little you got saved for your children and donate then to the failing y-town school district. i can care less how much youngstown loses. they dont deserve 5 cents from anyone. you my friend probably are retired and on the homstead act or live in a retirement home or maybe just a plain old bum that doesnt have to keep absorbing youngstowns faulting school system. you probably dont pay a dime to anything. if you do.....them god bless you but dont sit there and tell us all about youngstown losing money. make the businesses take the hit instead of the residence all the time. sooner or later it will come to a head and just for the record if youngstown didnt sell there overdue property taxes to american tax funding they would have been a ghost town several years ago. wake up......they always take the easy road and just add it to the bill...my bill....sick of it...you should be to !!!!!!

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8walter_sobchak(2032 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

@goodoledays:

Come on - please, open up and tell us how you really feel! Seriously, I can't blame you for beeing so upset. The YCS is a sucking money pit. There is no way, NO WAY, I would ever let my children attend the schools. I understand the problem with the bad parents of kids, but at the end of the day, it is your own children that will suffer the most. Too many good families are caught in the same quagmire as you, paying high property taxes on property that is constantly devalued due to the poor performance of the school system. The state needs to totally reconfigure the way schools operate and are funded. But, it already may be too late. As for your own situation, do whatever you have to do to get your kids educated.

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9aljimi(43 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

I wish that the people who support this appeal would actually look at the amount of money we have to pay to Youngstown schools in taxes.We pay nearly double of what it would cost for another district. I personally pay over $ 250 a month in taxes for this district on top of my other property taxes. This is an absurd amount for the worst system in the state. Dumping money has been proven not to work in this school district.

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10goodoledays(17 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

now thats what im saying just better said .... god job disgustedjoker. i to pay 250 a month. i can rent a crack house in the heart of youngstown for that much. yeah i made the choice to live elsewhere and yeah i also made the choice to give my childen a shot at life outside a jail cell. if youngstown wants anyones respect from the surrunding communites then i strongly recommend firing every single person in the system and start with the board. i feel if you want to belong to the board of education then you should do it for free. i mean after all...i go to work everyday for free just about. im getting legally raped by youngstown. hire retired elderly people with morals and values and maybe you just might change the attitude of your students and the surrunding areas. after all is said and done......the parents are simply irresponsible and they are giving there children no chance as long as they are in the youngstown school district. start at the top and it can be changed for the good of the children...not for the glory of saying im on the board. shame on you all...they need to have a class on how to cope with depression and failure because thats all they learn in ycs. its a lost cause until the right people get in there. money has nothing to do with it. its the morale of the board and the teachers. good luck

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11Realist(62 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

A couple of things:

goodoledays:
When you bought your home in Coitsville you probably knew that Youngstown was the educating school district. Now your upset because your taxes are increasing but what you probably don't realize is that your taxes will probably increase again because Hubbard and Lowellville have higher tax rates than Coitsville. I'm not sure why your so upset because if your kid already goes to one of these schools through open enrollment, $5,700 is going to the educating district and if your only paying $3,000 in taxes (which not all of that is school taxes) you are making out in the deal.

You always have the option of moving to a better school district but YOU choose to live where you live. Before I moved my family I researched the area school system to make sure my children received the best education. I too would not want my children going to a school system like that.

By the way, I am nowhere near the age of retirement (prob 25 years away) and pay all of my own bills.

disgustedjoker:
You make it sound so simple for YCS to call a Lowellville or Campbell and ask how to make the kids behave. But you are talking about two completely different animals here. Again I say that without a strong family support system at home the success of a student will be more difficult.

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12PXGhost(51 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

@Realist

$5,700 for open enrollment is nothing compared to what YCS gets! On average, between Federal, State and Local funds, YCS gets on average 15,484.38 per student!! That means, for every student YCS loses to open enrollment, YCS gets $9,784.38 to NOT TEACH that child!!

By providing a substandard education, YCS can extort parents into open enrollment so YCS can spend more on less.

Coitsville township doesn't want to be a part of such a poorly run school (both financially and academically), and THEY can choose to seperate from the school district. With any luck, the 10th appellate district will uphold this court's decision!

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13goodoledays(17 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

realist. i already stated its not about the money. my taxes doubled and i pay them but i would like to atleast say i live in a distict that isnt a disgusting joke. a disgrace to all surrounding areas. i went to flordia year ago and when i said i was from youngstown people practically ran and hid. its a stereo type that is true. very true. ycs is a waste of all our tax dolars. i dont care if my taxes triple. its all about the fact that ycs has absolutely nothing to offer any child except disgrace in there future. you obviously live in a hole or you would know this. its common knowledge across the country. if you want to get on with this then read all the posts. back in the 1950's lowellville went from 224 to 422. it was annexed to y-town and poland twp. it was suppose to be for the betterment and the future generations to prosper and grow. the problem is youngstown has declined while the surrounding area has grown and prospered. look at boardman. 1950 people never even heard of boardman. if ytown would have done something right then it would have grown instead of falling apart. ytown needs to give back the area to its rightful owner. after 60 years of screwing everyone thats the least they can do. now they want some of austintown boardman and already took some of girard. and dont give me the bull about jobs. thats a joke and very misrepresented. problem is the general public is not to smart. we owe ytown nothing. give back the land and its people to its rightful owners and the problem is solved. like i said...its not the money on our end but it is on ytowns end. money to teach our children absolutely nothing. wake up

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14goodoledays(17 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

and just for the record...my home would be worth 500,000 if it was anywhere but unfortunately its connected to ytown and there school system. which makes my property worth about 150 at best. i would gladly pay thousands more for taxes just to say i am not affiliated with ytown. face it man...ytown is a waste....period. and yes i knew the kids would go to ycs but i also knew i could get them into open enrollment. all we are asking for is just due....give us our rights back and let us go where we belong. i would be more than happy to belong to ycs if they had the ability to teach and PROTECT OUR CHILDREN but the facts are they cant..period. you must not have any kids...and if you do...good luck. they will move out as soon as they can. if they are smart they will but i doubt it if they are going to ycs. they will learn how to fight, steal, drugs, sell drugs and spend there summer nights getting rear ended in county jail. but hey...to each his own ... good luck with that !!!

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15goodoledays(17 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

i never said what i paid for my home. i said what its currently worth now. 150k now. if it where in canfireld or boardman easily 500k. read it fool. replacement cost is 440k....hmmm....interesting that the replacement cost is almost 3 x's its value. and i never said what i would sell it for either. the point is my property taxes doubled in the last 2 years...have yours ??? didnt think so. i know it all dont go for the schools. it also goes to the libraries and mill creek park that i also cant enjoy without bringing a gun with me. the only reason why ycs has "challenging students" is cause they are either all cracked up or all beat up. the teachers are afraid of the kids there. i personally know 2 teachers there and they are scared to say anything to those kids. and i cant see how you can say other schools never claimed to do a better job...oh wait...they dont have to take claim...the tests and the state says it for them. i may not be the smartest guy in the world but if you want to compare then you are going to lose all day long. there is no comparrison. special talents...clarett....hmmmm...isnt he in jail....just like most will be. its not only the schools ... its the upbringing and something that most parents in ysc lack....its called pride. proud of your child....not mad because hes about to turn 18 and you cant collect welfare off him anymore....they teach there kids this and thats the bottom line

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16aljimi(43 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Dear education voter:
please get your facts straight and do just a little research on the amount of taxes paid by Coitsville residents.Many other twps. don't pay nearly as much as we do to support the worst school district in the area.If my home was in poland twp. or canfield twp. my taxes for the school would be nearly cut in half.Just do a little research before you spout off.also if you looked into this at all a house on rt.616 in youngstown is tax appraised at less than half of a similar house in coitsville within the same country block.Therefore taxes are much greater.

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17seminole(476 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Yee Haw!!! You all are going at it hard and heavy. Yea, the taxes are ridiculous for what you all are getting in YCS, which, from what I have seen and from what I have read in these posts, is a definitive lack of education and a definitive mode of survival for the teachers. I have been in these schools and seen it first hand. These kids stroll through the halls like they don't have a schedule, all late for class, talking smack, cussing, biligerant. They disrespect the teachers without a thought. It comes from the culture and home-life, we all get that. I realize there are good kids, kids that want an education, who are respectful, but the majority of these kids are looking for a handout like moms got. It's sad but the reality of it is that YCS needs to be shut down and reformed under state control. Who the hell is going to miss it in it's current status? Dr Wendy did a bang-up job for all the money she robbed the district for in her salary. I sympathize with you all that suffer under this attrocity. We pay a decent amount in Boardman but, mark my words, it will be YCS within 10 years as urban sprawl creeps faster and faster. This area will be the next Cleveland, which will be the next Detroit. The flow keeps rolling down from Dtown to Ytown.

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18Bigben(1996 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Seminole much of what you say is spot on.Boardman however does not have open enrollment.Austintown however does have open enrollment.

Urban sprawl is a term used to describe the needless destruction of rural land as urbanization spreads.Since there is no rural land in Boardman a more correct term would be urban blight.As we speak boardman has an excellent rating .i'm hoping it stays that way into the forseeable future.

As for the folks wanting out of the Ytown schools - - -they have my best wishes.

Those schools are a hole and it isn't the teachers believe me it is the way the kids are raised or not raised.I'm still trying to figure out why millions upon millions of dollars have been spent building all these new schools.Obviously throwing money at it has not helped foster pride ect.Morals are what are needed.

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19Lark(9 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Does anyone want to send their children to Youngstown Publlic Schools? When a local television station wanted to come into the schools and have a look at the hallways and classrooms, Dr. Webb banned them....wonder why!

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