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Abortion clinic in Valley closes



Published: Sat, January 16, 2010 @ 12:07 a.m.

By William K. Alcorn

BOARDMAN — The Mahoning Women’s Center, the target of numerous anti-abortion demonstrations, vigils and physical confrontations over its 33-year history, has closed.

The abortion clinic shut down operations at the end of business Tuesday, said Tim Baker, son of owner Mary Ann Baker, who was unavailable to comment.

The center opened in 1976 on Oak Hill Avenue near the former South Side Hospital, Youngstown, and moved to 4025 Market St. in early 1983.

It is closing because of the retirement of the owner and the decline in business, Baker said.

The center performed its first abortions in June 1976, according to Vindicator records.

Protests became so numerous and aggressive that a new organization, Choice Youngstown, was formed in 1989 to train individuals to serve as escorts for center clients.

In 1990, a group of students from Franciscan University of Steubenville entered the center and reportedly pushed employees aside and smashed equipment.

With the closing of the Mahoning Women’s Center, the closest abortion clinics are believed to be in Akron, Cleveland and Pittsburgh.

The building that housed the center, owned by Mary Ann Baker, has been sold, and the center has until Jan. 31 to vacate the space. The other tenants in the two-story building are believed to be staying, Tim Baker said.

Mary Ann, 73, also owns James Travel, an agency that has been inactive for several years. In her retirement, she plans to travel and spend time with her grandchildren, her son said.

Melinda Knight, a spokeswoman for the anti-abortion, marriage and family program of the Catholic Diocese of Youngstown, said the closing of the clinic is an indication that women are realizing that they don’t need abortions, that abortions can’t solve their problems.

Rather, women need support, and Catholic Charities is always ready to offer any kind of support, whether it be financial, housing or employment, and there are many sources of help in the community, she said.

“We are glad they have gone out of business. It is mind-boggling to think how many lives were ended there,” Knight said.

Baker said his mother, president of the Ohio Chapter of the National Organization for Women for many years, was instrumental in getting many women’s rights established over the years.

Baker said he was a regular kid but always knew his mother was a big figure.

“As I child, I remember participating in a march on Washington, D.C., for equal rights, a NOW initiative,” he said.

Baker said his mother and father, John, were both English teachers.

“She was a widow who parlayed her teaching ability into a passion for equal rights,” Tim Baker said. “She was a pioneer who helped change the world and way women are perceived. She battled her whole life for equal rights and choice, and I hope that’s the way she is remembered. I’m very proud of her.”

alcorn@vindy.com


Comments

1MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Gee, now where will all of the religious zealots and human rights hypocrites congregate?

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2valleygal(24 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

She is fortunate that she has grandchildren... that they weren't aborted. The closing of this death-mill is a huge victory for life.

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3Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Let's not forget the fact that Mary Ann Baker had seen nothing wrong with murdering the unborn to facilitate her lifestyle . In her retirement she wants to spend time with her granchildren which is very noble of her . I see that her granchildren were spared . How about the many others in The Valley whose granchildren are in the grave because of her ? She will be remebered as the most prolific murderer in The Valley .

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4Hillbillyheartache(20 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

This is not good news. We are overpopulated. Abortions should be mandated for those who drain our economy. Don't get your panties in a bunch, just chew on it for awhile.

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5Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Like this will stop abortion people will continue getting them done for whatever reason they may have. Everyone needs to worry about their own body and stop preaching to others about theirs.

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6Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

What makes your aged body worth more than the unborn ?

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7RNRAT2003(10 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Nunya....I agree. Women still have the right to choose and will continue to do so. Everyone has reasons for getting abortions. Some are not the right reasons, I agree. But some are very good reasons. And maybe until some of you are in a position like some of these women are, you should keep your mouths shut.

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8Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

What would you do for health reasons as to why you should abort to save your life if you were a female @ Stan?

If I was in that situation and it was an embryo and I was told to abort because I could die I would. Why because I wouldn't want to be selfish to leave my loved ones that already need me around and love me. People love to judge so much when it's not their body I do feel abortion shouldn't be used as a birth control method though. But at the end of the day the people who do that it's their body and not mines. If they ever want children and cant have them due to the abortions they better not cry about it because that was their choice.

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9Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

For Mary Ann Baker due to her age the hour of judgement is quickly approaching . At that time the playing field will be even . How will she be judged ? Will the souls of those she murdered have any say in her judgement ?

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10Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

I have some off topic questions.

What are yall views to the people who have the right to pull a loved one off of life support?

What are yall views on people who are born like this little girl with anencephaly? http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/...

What would you do in both situations?

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11sky(38 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

stan You know everything..... I love the fact that you are a complete joke

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12Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Judgement day is no joke and no one is exempt . Perhaps you will find it amusing ?

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13commyliberal(94 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Thank you Mary Ann Baker and the women of NOW for fighting for CHOICE. Your generation deserves all the credit for advancing the cause of reproductive rights. Thank you for your sacrifices and enjoy your well deserved retirement.

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14Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

@AlwaysHope The only good 100% way to prevent pregnancy would be abstinent or to get surgery so you cant get pregnant.Also alot of laws here do need to be fixed that may contradict itself.

At the end of the day noone have the right to judge anyone on what they decide to do with their body . Noone here is god and can pick out all of your sins and say you have not believed in me and did not live the life of god. Nor can anyone say oh your going to hell because you did this or that when they dont know if that person was forgiving or not.

I will state again my personal opinion im for abortion and my only problem is people who want to use it as a form of birth control. But it's still their choice they have to live with that decision not the next person.

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15hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Mr. Baker states that his mother “battled her whole life for equal rights”. Since she spent the first part of her life helping women slaughter their children, does this mean she will spend her remaining years helping those on the other side of the equal sign?

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16hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Nunya22 – Using your logic, I guess you are also in favor of people’s choice to rape, murder, incest, steal, etc. After all, who are we to judge their actions? It's still their choice; they have to live with that decision not the next person, right? All of these actions, including abortion, have a serious impact on others, not only the person committing the act.

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17Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

@ hearmeout How is a woman who decided to have an abortion affecting your everyday life?

Also im not in favor of no such thing that you listed at all. My point above was how people think they have all these rights to make all this judgement towards another person and bring god into the picture. I learned at a young age noone can judge you on this earth only god. Now back to what you guess im in favor of no matter how I feel personally about someone. I still don't know what will happen to that person who did wrong to another person when it's their time to become deceased. Am I going to go around making signs talking down on that person to other people no.

I'm sorry to everyone who don't agree with me but this is my personal opinion and we all won't agree on everything.

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18hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Nunya22 - I don't know how a person who decided to have an abortion affects my daily life. It's impossible to say how that person (the aborted baby)'s life would have contributed to society or affected me. But, it's not all about me! We can say with certainty that the abortion had a profound affect on the baby's life. It ended it! You see, it's not just about the mother either. There are at least 2 people directly involved in an abortion decision (mother & child), and many more (family members, friends and people who will encounter that baby in the future) that will be affected at some point in time. We need to look beyond our own selfish desires both at the time to possibly conceive a child and at the time the decision is made whether to nurture the baby or have it slaughtered in the womb.
I didn't think that you would really be in favor of those other immoral acts I mentioned. I just wanted to point out that your logic to legitimize abortion also points to the acceptance of any immoral act.

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19Tigerlily(488 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Such judgmental folks here. Such good Christians. I thought the Bible stated that only God has the ability to judge us when our time comes. It is unfortunate that many who follow Christ's path forget that they ARE NOT GOD HIMSELF, and are sinning by being so prideful as to think that they can speak for God simply by having a membership in a church and faith. These are false Christians, though they are too blinded by their desire for power and authority over others that can't see how out of accord they are with the teachings of the Bible.

God bless those who have done what they have done, and let Him judge, not I.

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20hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

There's a big difference between judgment of a person's soul at death (which belongs to God) and judging actions based on what is right and what is wrong. Only God knows our hearts and all the circumstances that led to our decisions, but on the way, most everything we do is clearly right or wrong, and Jews & Christians are called to know the difference. That's why we have laws against immoral activity, save one - abortion.

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21Attis(873 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Am I to understand that a woman who has perfect constitutional and moral right to seek health care (in this case, termination of her unwanted pregnancy) cannot do so any longer in either Trumbull, Mahoning, Ashtabula, Geauga or Portage counties? What good is a right that no one around here can honor?

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22hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

A moral right to kill her child.... huh?

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23Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Mary Ann Baker is the worst of the worst and has no remorse for the slaughter that she facilitated on the unborn during her lifetime . She has done satan proud . No one on death row in any state has even come close . We have legalized the murder of the unborn in America . Our founding fathers would be appalled !

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24cambridge(2996 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Stan the Man Unusual....."Our founding fathers would be appalled!"

Our founding fathers were slave owners and traders and committed genocide on the Native Americans. I don't think there is much that would appall them.

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25Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Well Cambildge I can assure you that they did not practice genocide on the unborn nor would they have supported it .

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26rightsforchoice(10 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Seventy-seven percent of anti-abortion leaders are men. 100% of them will never be pregnant. "planned parenthood"

If the anti-abortion movement took a tenth of the energy they put into noisy theatrics and devoted it to improving the lives of children who have been born into lives of poverty, violence, and neglect, they could make a world shine. ~Michael Jay Tucker

I would just like to say that any man who wants to step on my rights for choice needs to take a step back and realize this IS NOT THEIR BODY. Do you think any woman wakes up and goes "well today is the day i go and try to get pregnant so i can get an abortion, yipee!" NO, no woman WANTS an abortion. A lot of thought goes into the decision that is made and that decision is private and does not need to be judged. I myself walked into that abortion clinic on Dec 15th. I walked out still 11 wks pregnant. Do you know why? Because I HAD THE CHOICE to do what i wanted and NO MAN could pressure me to do either choice.

My whole thing is women have the choice!

With humans it's abortion, but with chickens it's an omelet. ~Attributed to George Carlin

Are you guys going to stop eating eggs now?

All of you men need to stop trying to stomp on the womens rights. Butt out of it and leave it to us.

Besides, if abortion were to become illegal, what would you do to the women that had illegal abortions?

The day abortion becomes illegal is the day more women dies in one night from having back alley abortions.

"REPUBLICANS WANT LIVE BABIES, TO BE DEAD SOLDIERS." Author unknown.

Thank you Mary Ann Baker for giving women their right to choice. You deserve a well retirement filled with joy.

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27Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

"Besides, if abortion were to become illegal"

Abortion=murder and is illegal in the eyes of God !

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28hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Personally, I know far more women who are pro-life than men. The pro-choice movement seems to be filled with rabid women extremists and homosexual men (which I've never understood).
You should read Bernard Nathanson's (founder of NARAL) statement to see how the pro-choicers have been duped:
http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess...

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29hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

another brief interview with Dr. Nathanson where he exposes the lies upon which Roe v Wade was founded:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/...

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30rightsforchoice(10 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

illegal in the eyes of god? since when does god make up the laws?

stan, be the 10 year old girl who gets raped and then is pregnant. since her body is not developed enough to carry a child to term and could ultimately kill her, she should live under the control of her rapist and let this kill her? no. When you have a vagina, you can tell me how you feel, until then this is not the place for any male to have a say in what goes on with a woman's body.

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31Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

There is no need to make feeble excuses for your support of the millions of unborn killed because they were inconvenient . You know that the killing of the unborn is wrong .

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32Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

ABORTION RATES PER 1,000 BIRTHS

NEW YORK IS THE HIGHEST WITH 507 KILLED FOR EVERY 1,000 BORN .

http://flowingdata.com/wp-content/upl...

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33Tigerlily(488 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Dear God, I pray to you to save those who claim your name as their Lord and Savior, yet act against your laws. They will twist and turn to justify their own judgmental behaviors to make whatever they feel and say and do to seem as if it is Your Will, lying to others and most especially to themselves in order to justify their hypocrisy. Please, I pray to you, turn them back to your light of forgiveness and letting You decide who is right and wrong, and what will happen to them on judgment day. If they are truly your children, you will have the power to do this.

Well, of course, though, you have granted us free will. Thus I cannot say if you will intervene. It's unfortunate that you allow those who claim your name to empower their own judgments to get away with sullying your name. It only chases away souls who might come to you otherwise.

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34KimS(10 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Ok people, it's really pretty simple:

1. There is no god or hell or satan, so no worries to those who have had abortions.

2. If you are against abortion, then don't have one. See, problem solved.

3. USA1 and Stan are obviously trolls. Because I refuse to believe I share a planet with such ignorant human beings.

Have a nice night everyone!

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35hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Who can say what these aborted persons would have become? Someone once asked Mother Teresa why God hasn't sent someone who could find a cure for AIDS. He answered that He had, but we aborted him!

There is socialistic root to the pro-abortion movement, but there is an even stronger eugenics root. See Planned Parenthood founder, Margaret Sanger's background:
http://blackgenocide.org/sanger.html
It is clearly a racist movement to eliminate those so-called "unwanted" in society. Wake up, America!

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36yocograd69(7 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Stan (and all those who are drinking the kool-aide of all the old men at the Vatican) -
If you feel so strongly that abortion is wrong, your dedication to your "beliefs" rings hollow unless you work to stop conception by supporting sex education and making birth control easily available. If you want to stop abortions, stop unwanted conception! Anything else is hypocracy.

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37najjjj(106 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Youngstown, Ohio hurtling even further into the dark ages. Uneducated back alley abortionists and their coat hangers thank you.

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38rightsforchoice(10 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Yeah but my mother does not need to be brought into this. She recently passed away and there is no need to bring another person into a fight you will never win.

Also i know my mother did not abort me because my siblings and myself were ALL PLANNED pregnancies. my mother was 24, married, knew what she wanted, and then had children. She was not raped, had something medically wrong that being pregnant would kill her, and she was not a victim to incest. She also supported women rights to choice, and freedom from scum bag men like all of you trying to put us women back into the old ages where we could not do anything on our own with out getting criticized.

I am not pro-abortion. Pro-choice. When i go to protest rights for choice i bring pamphlets on SAFE SEX, i bring pamphlets on STD'S, and i come fully stocked with enough condoms to pass out bag fulls to people. I am there to educate on safe sex and to let people know they have options. I NEVER EVER tell someone to go get pregnant by a one night stand then have an abortion. i let them know about the morning after pill, birth control, condoms, abstinence, safe havens, abortion and adoption. These are all option and preventative tools.

These are all options that are up to the woman, no man can make that decision for her. You men all have your panties up in a bunch because this is one thing that will never go away and you will NEVER have control over. So suck it up, this battle will never be won by the pro-life side of the argument.

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39Attis(873 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

If abortion is murder, then every menstration or ejaculation is at least a half-murder. Get real, folks. Life does not begin at conception and end at birth.

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40hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

"She was not raped, had something medically wrong that being pregnant would kill her, and she was not a victim to incest" . . . . nor are 95% of the women who have abortions. In fact no abortions are done to truly protect the life of the mother. It would always be safer for both the mother AND the baby to induce a pre-mature birth by C-section. The 1.2 million abortions done annually in the U.S. are not all due to rape and incest.

I resent the attitude that mainly men are pro-life. This isn't so much an issue about what a woman can do with her body as it is a matter of what she should be allowed to do to another's body - her child's. Also, the pro-life community does a lot to help women considering abortion through pregnancy care centers. The pro-choice argument relies on selfish attitudes, distortion of facts and outright lies.

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41yocograd69(7 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

rightsforchoice - Thank you. You are effectively doing more to reduce abortions than folks like USA1, Stan, et al will ever accomplish by staying in their comfort zone. They would rather force their unfounded beliefs on their fellow human beings.(They can't prove there IS a heaven or hell - they can't prove life begins at conception) Their "better than everyone else" attitude is totally opposite from the teachings of the Jesus I know. These attitudes and actions are, to me, sacrilegious.

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42yocograd69(7 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

hearmeout - LOL You are typical of the self righteous who think they know everything and nobody else knows squat. You write, "In FACT no abortions are done to truly protect the life of the mother." What about tubal pregnancies? Even the Catholic Church condones this type of (according to your definition) abortion where part of the fallopian tube is removed along with the fertilized egg which can no longer be viable. So, you say "The pro-choice argument relies on selfish attitudes, distortion of facts and outright lies."? Look in the mirror, my friend. You are the liar here.

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43CandyfromCanfield(172 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Anyone who thinks the closing of this clinic will lessen the number of abortions in the area is kidding themselves. Although it will make it just that much more inconvenient, women will continue to have medically safe and constitutionally legal abortions. This news "story" hardly warrants the anti-choice hysteria posted.

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44hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

yocograd69 - I was referring to normal pregnancies of the type that abortionists end, not something like a tubal pregnancy. This is just more evidence of how the pro-choice (to kill unborn babies) crowd tries to distort things. Again, I refer you to the comments made by NARAL founder, Bernard Nathanson to see how their strategy works, and to the Margaret Sanger site referenced above for a better understanding of what you are really supporting.

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45RFederer(116 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

USA1 asks: Kims; can you prove there's no Heaven or hell? And she calls us ignorant.

Nobody has ever seen it. It is a fabrication of the religious nutbags who can't stand the fact that humans are finite.

Can YOU prove God and heaven do exist? Can you prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist? Using such illogical thinking to prove that something does or doesn't exist is an exercise in futility.

There is no God. There is no Heaven/Hell/Pergatory/ Limbo. We can however do the Limbo!

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46XFilesX(77 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

23 years ago I walked into that clinic for a pregnancy test, convinced I would have an abortion. I walked out pregnant and today have a lovely daughter. There was no pressure, no theatrics. Only support and counseling and a shoulder to lean on. Those of you who haven't been there have no idea what went on inside the walls. Thank you Mary for you support and for giving me the courage to have my daughter.

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47hearmeout(11 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

I've never seen God.....never seen electricity or wind either, but I have seen the effects of all three working in people's lives. Maybe you should read about mathematician Blaise Pascal's wager where he states that even though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should wager as though God exists, because living life accordingly has everything to gain, and nothing to lose. Read more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%2... and
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/pas...

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48yocograd69(7 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Your logic is laughable. I guess if you "believe" that your future child won't have a quality life, then you have "nothing to lose" by having an abortion...

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49RFederer(116 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Hearmeout claims to have never seen electricity and wind either and therefore that is "logic" to believe there is a God. How laughable. You really can't argue with these fanatics since logic and reasoning are unusable. I've seen electricity. Ever seen static or lightning? Wind can also be seen when you place smoke or other color in it. I've also seen the results of electricity and wind. I've NEVER seen God or any of his miracles. Do you think that 200,000 Haitians die if there really was a God? If so, he isn't the all good and all powerful God that I've heard people describe him as. No, there is no God. It's a figment of some pretty good imaginations and perhaps the biggest scam ever perpetrated on humanity.

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50Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

THE WORD FOR THE DAY IS GENOCIDE !

The unborn are the most helpless people in the world . Far more have been slaughtered in America by abortion than in any war in history . Hitler's death camps in WW2 didn't even come close and he was accused of genocide . America's Holocaust is much more severe . Just as Hitler blamed all of the ills in Germany on Jews liberal socialists blame the ills of America on the unborn . Mothers kill their children to be free of child rearing . Has life been better for them after aborting ? Not a chance ! Only the abortion providers have been enriched . A whole generation of children has been wiped out . Those who aborted their children now expect the children raised by others to pay for their care in old age through taxation . Their value to society is now less than zero . How long will it be before the genocide in America includes the elderly along with the unborn for the sake on convenience ?

THE LIFE OF HITLER
http://www.auschwitz.dk/Hitler.htm

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51EveWarner(1 comment)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

@Stan: You caution that abortion will lead us on a path towards a "genocide in America [that] includes the elderly along with the unborn for the sake o[f] convenience." Mandating that women vacate fetuses and murder the elderly isn't a convenience, it is an imperative. Global warming, skyrocketing health care costs, Social Security problems--Americans are living too long and their continued presence is too costly. Abortions and the elimination of the elderly may be the most sensible (and efficient) solution to resolving these impending crises. The jobs created to dispose of fetuses and old people will reduce unemployment and stimulate economic growth. Finally, it would spare a whole generation of children from ridiculous ingrates that trivialize the atrocities of World War II by comparing them to abortion, and from heathens that invoke the "fear of God" to cover their own arguments' weaknesses.

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52Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Right now ridiculous ingrates trivialize the genocide of the unborn .

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53MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

I am lmao at USA1 and Stan. What jokes you guys are. You are EXACTLY the hypocrites I was referring to. You are so easy to incite. lol You preach freedom but denounce anyone who disagrees with you. This issue is really very simple. If you don't want to get an abortion, then don't. If a loved one asks for your advice on abortion give it. As for the rest of the human race, let them choose their own path. After all, it was YOUR God that gave humans the right to choose. It's called free will.

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54Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

"You are so easy to incite."

I just state the facts . Abortion supporting liberals get inflamed . BTW you can choose anything that you want to do but . . ..

There are cosequences ! The killing of the unborn is not a harmless pastime nor is any other murder .

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55yocograd69(7 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Please answer me this - If life begins at the time the woman’s egg is fertilized by the man’s sperm, then how do you explain all the natural “abortions” of all the fertilized eggs which never attach to the uterus? These “lives” are expelled and flushed down the toilet. Some statistics say that about 50% of fertilized eggs don’t attach to the uterus. Doesn’t the number of abortions by “choice” seem almost insignificant by comparison?

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56AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

It`s probably for the best that the facility is closed.Otherwise people like usa1 pro-conservaterican who supports a man being shot in the forehead while attending church by a murdering whacked out zealot named Scott Roeder could do something stupid over there on Market St. What sentence do you think Roeder deserves usa1? Obviously being a law and order dyed in the wool ultra conservative,I would assume that if Roeder is found guilty(he already admitted he did it) you will be pushing for either death or life in prison correct? If you`re not then I guess you believe that it`s okay to kill if someone doesn`t adhere to your beliefs correct? So everyone on here, including myself that thinks you are off the reservation better watch our rear view mirrors for a foreign car following us with a Palin bumper sticker and a back seat full of teabagger pamplets.Abortion is the current law whether you like it or not.How many Republican conservative Presidents have there been since Roe v Wade that appointed Supreme Court justices? They used this issue to get elected by you conservatives.They didn`t give a damn whether it was overturned or not and sheeple like usa1 were there every step of the way.How`s it feel to be used by your conservative hero Ronnie Reagan usa1? He didn`t even attend church. lol

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57MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Stan, you keep confusing "Facts" with "Opinions". You are entitled to your beliefs, just as those who hold different opinions are entitled to theirs. The FACT is, Roe v Wade made abortions legal so no matter how many times you shout MURDER, it simply isn't so. Of course now you will spout off about "God's law" but you can't use the two interchangeably. You can't impose your religious beliefs on the legal system.Don't ever forget that more people have died in the name of god than for any other reason. Zealots know no boundaries.

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58Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

"Don't ever forget that more people have died in the name of god"

There have been far more killed by abortion than in all of the wars combined . The murdered have not been forsaken by God but they have been slaughtered by the GODFORSAKEN ABORTIONISTS !

Those who champion the killing of the unborn should never be trusted for any reason . Mass killers have no morality .

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59dreamcatcher52(140 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

One thing I could never understand is if a woman has the right to control her own body, why is prostitution illegal?

The only thing I know about this clinic is that they performed abortions on 14 and 15 yr. olds without notifying parents. So whether you are for or against abortion, I would think you agree that a minor should not be permitted to make such a decision without a parent at least being notified.

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60Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

"Maybe her grand kids need a shirt that says I survived Roe vs Wade?"

Since Grandma taught them well this is the only T-Shirt that those kids are wearing .

http://www.ryangarns.com/images/abort...

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61JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

No one else sees the irony that Y-town is in such a shambles that abortion clinics can't even stay in business? I mean...come on.

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62MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

lol....USA1 talks about Obama attending mosque, foreign cars and ugly NOW workers. Can't you stay on topic and not resort to personal attacks? Just because someone disagrees with you or has a different belief system doesn't make them idiots or fools. In fact, the more I read these forums, the more I see there are those who can debate a topic with intelligence and those who can't so they resort to name calling and political nonsense.

Here are the simple FACTS.

Abortion is LEGAL in this country, ergo it is NOT MURDER. Your religious beliefs are just that, beliefs, not law.

I'm laughing because you zealots are all so easy to get your panties in a bunch.

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63MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

You amuse me USA1

Your rants about unions and socialism are totally irrelevant to this subject. but then again, re read my prior post.

BTW, show me where I called anyone an idiot. You are the only one I see in this thread calling people fools and idiots.I simply pointed out the hypocrisy of your argument.

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64MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

You crack me up! You can't have a rational discussion on ANY topic without ranting about unions and socialism? Are you that narrow minded or just have a one track mind?

FYI, I oppose unions (they have LONG outlived their usefulness) oppose socialism, advocate welfare reform to include work incentives and am a registered REPUBLICAN. Just because I disagree with your tirades on abortion doesn't make me anti-capitalist or a communist or any other convenient label you spout to try to confuse or intimidate people into agreeing with you. Maybe intimidate is too strong of a word since most everyone on here is laughing at you.

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65commyliberal(94 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

To all the anti-choice men on this board,

unless you can account for ALL of your sperm for your entire life, you have no say in this matter. I can say that I can account for every one of my eggs and will continue to account for them and I know that NONE of them has become an unwanted child.

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66Eric(196 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Stan, USA1, and the rest of the pro-lifers on this board...how much time do you spend voluteering at homeless shelters and how much money do you donate to free health clinics? I always find it ironic that the same people who protest abortion also have problems with any type of social welfare system that help young mothers who choose to keep their child. Put your money where your mouth is. If you want abortion to be illegal, then advocate for increased taxes that provide welfare programs to house, feed, and provide medical care for the mother and child for 18 years.

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67Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Pssstttt Eric . . ...

Can I tell you something ? I believe that we can cure many problems by putting a high tax on abortions . The abortion mills are making megabucks by killing the unborn . They don't deserve the wealth gained by murder .

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68MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

lmao

USA1 posts: "Only a fool believes abortion is obvious murder of an unborn human being." Ummm, isn't that the point that YOU are making?

Also, must I remind you AGAIN that since abortion is LEGAL it isn't, by definition, MURDER.

Do your fanatical over-the-top rantings clog your brain? You seem incapable of putting together a coherent thought let alone a simple logical sentence.

Go ahead, you have my permission to call me some more names. Can you come with something other than fool? You use that one WAY too much. lol

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69MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

lol....it seems the only word you know is fool. At least you kept your answer on topic. It's a start, it shows you have the capacity to learn. Who knows, in a few years you might progress to multi-syllabic insults!

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70yocograd69(7 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

I'm still waiting for an answer to my post from 34 hours ago - If life begins at the time the woman’s egg is fertilized by the man’s sperm, then how do you explain all the natural “abortions” of all the fertilized eggs which never attach to the uterus? These “lives” are expelled and flushed down the toilet. Some statistics say that about 50% of fertilized eggs don’t attach to the uterus. Doesn’t the number of abortions by “choice” seem almost insignificant by comparison?. By the definition of "life at conception" don't you define God as the biggest and most cruel abortionist of all?

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71MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

USA, all of your name calling and taunting just make me laugh. You are incapable of making me angry because I am comfortable in my skin and in my beliefs. I will even go so far as to say I understand those who disagree with me (everyone is entitled to their OPINION) and even understand those who feel a moral obligation to convince others that abortion is wrong. I simply respecftfully disagree.

However people like you who do nothing more than spew insults, taunts and a political agenda do more damage to that cause than they do good. Intelligent debate is constructive. You speak out of ignorance and anger which is polarizing. And then of course there are those who advocate violence and even the murder of doctors who perform this LEGAL medical procedure. Those are the zealots and hypocrites I referred to in my first post.

Now take a deep breath and write a clear concise sentence that doesn't include the word "FOOL" in it. Go ahead, I'll wait...

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72valleygal(24 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

The other day I came across a video about a young man by the name of Patrick Henry Hughes. I decided to take the 6.5 minutes of my life to learn about that of another. If you are not familiar with him, you can see the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xwCG0...

One of the first thoughts that came to mind was how many people, if they had learned of the disabilities while this child was in the womb, would have had him aborted? How can any one measure what a life is worth? And how can we know the cost of those who will never be among us? I'm reminded of the theme of "It's a Wonderful Life"-not only a good Christmas show, but valid any time of the year.

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73Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

NO MENTAL HANDICAP HERE !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xwCG0...

It is ironic that the mentally handicapped and physically fit make the choince to murder the unborn .

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74MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Valleygal, this is a sticky part of the debate because for every "wonderful life" there are dozens of kids born into horrible, abusive or neglectful situations that lead to drug use, criminal activity and/or premature death. It is also revisionist history to talk about what could have been. What if there had never been an auto accident or cancer or what if EVERY fertilized egg had been born instead of the millions of miscarriages that occur naturally each year? Might one of them have become an amazing story? The answer? No one knows because those things didn't happen! Just as no one could possibly know what would have happened if ANY of the women made a different choice.

Think of it this way. One mother who had an abortion might have raised the next president of the United States if she chose to give birth
Another mother who decided NOT to have an abortion might be raising the next Ted Bundy. We can't possibly predict who might have done what with a given life whether they were miscarried, died of SIDS or a car crash or had a terminal disease.

There are many inspirational stories out there. There are many more tragedies.

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75Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

MVP :
"There are many inspirational stories out there. There are many more tragedies."

So what you are telling us is that your mother should have aborted you ?

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76yocograd69(7 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Well put, MVP. Just think how much better off our country would be if Barbara Bush would have aborted George W.

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77MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

lmao once again. You guys really make me laugh. You have nothing to offer in the way of an intelligent debate so you attack and insult and try to make it personal. This is why no one wanted to play with you as a child and why no one wants to engage you in conversation today. You have nothing to offer so you just keep repeating MURDER, SOCIALIST AGENDA, BLAH BLAH BLAH!

Did you even bother to read what I wrote? Sorry, I forgot you are right and anyone who disagrees with you is a FOOL. lol

Let me make this simple for you, I know I need to.

I believe in the sanctity of human life and that life begins at birth, premature or full term. (go ahead and start ranting about "Sonar Grams" lol)

I believe that every woman is entitled to be educated on ALL of her options and she may choose to have the baby, raise him, give him up for adoption or terminate HER pregnancy. That makes me pro-CHOICE, not pro-MURDER. A distinction you seem incapable of comprehending.

I believe that religious zealots who would kill a Dr. who performs legal medical procedures is himself playing god and deserves whatever punishment a jury of his peers deems appropriate.

I believe we were all born with free will and I choose to live by my core values and the fact that you disagree with them make them no less valid than yours.

I believe that we will each face our creator/god/eternal life/death based on our beliefs and I am comfortable in my belief system and don't need nor want your permission to think, feel or act however I want to.

Clear enough? Anyone have another self-righteous holier-than-thou snide comment to make about my mother? lol

BTW USA1, I am still waiting for a coherent thought from you. Is English your first language?

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78Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

HEY LIBERALS ! HOW COULD THIS BE ?

THE KILLING OF THE UNBORN IS INDEED A CRIME !

http://www.patriotledger.com/news/x16...

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79commyliberal(94 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

USA!, how many unwanted children have you adopted?

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80MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

*sigh* I guess debate is a lost art. Repeating yourself over and over and over is not persuasive. Stan and USA, come back when you have something NEW to say instead of the same old tired insults.

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81MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

lol...lmao....rotfl....

You seriously crack me up USA1. You have a one word vocabulary (FOOL!!) and think that if you call people who disagree with you commie liberal socialists they will suddenly say, "WOW, he's RIGHT!" What a joke!

You already conceded the point that since abortion is LEGAL then it is not MURDER so you can stop screaming that lie. I know your type, you have a strong belief and don't have the faculties to comprehend that someone may have a differing opinion. You remind me of a quote I saw the other day.

Light travels faster than sound which is why many people appear to be bright until they open their mouth.

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82MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

BTW, I already told you I am a registered REPUBLICAN so calling me a socialist or a liberal doesn't make it so. I am a fiscal conservative with a strong belief in capitalism, State's rights and the rights of INDIVIDUALS.

If you want to debate politics next, I'm game. Just try to brush up on the definition of some of the labels you are throwing out there because "I don't think they mean what YOU think they mean!" lol

Oh and using all CAPS and calling doctors hit men actually made me laugh out loud. I can almost imagine your blood pressure rising with each keystroke. lol

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83Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

MVP :

"If you want to debate politics next"

What do they call a liberal who claims to be a Republican ?

The same as any other liberal !
MENTALLY CHALLENGED !

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84cambridge(2996 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

USEless1...."Did you vote for the Bamster? I didn't. Not that Juan McCain was much better. Both are progressives."

Yeah, that's the last thing you'd want to do is vote for someone who is progressive. Brilliant statement.

You flat earth folks need to stop living in your rear view mirror.

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85swinfluoverthecukosnest(10 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Thank the Lord.
All the prayers and all the demonstrating finally shut the place down.
Praise God!!
God does answer prayers.
And I totally agree that people are beginning to wake up to the BIG LIE. My family just experienced the birth of a boy 2 lbs 5 oz.
Just to think that all over the world babies are being pulled and tortured from their mother's womb at that same age. And even older.
I am sure that people are coming to their senses and realizing it isn't a blob of protoplasm like they told everyone when they started the BIG LIE. Now you can see the baby in the womb in 3D. People understand it is a human being with features and personality even then.

Funny this woman is now releasing her name as she is running out of town to an unknown destination.

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86MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Stan, you are almost as funny as USA. You have no intelligent comment to make so you call me mentally challenged. Insults and taunts just expose your ignorance and yes, makes me laugh!

I'm actually having fun watching you two squirm as you try to find a clever retort or intelligent remark. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a LONG time for that to come from either of you.

This is too much fun.

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87Teacher4specialneeds(2 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

F**k all this political talk. A woman's body is HERS to make decisions for. Not some old fart in Washington... or some of you here.

Have any of you been raped? Have you had serious medical problems that could have not only resulted in the baby's death but yours too?????

Could you imagine, being raped and then raising up a child who is a product of that kind of violence? No matter how you raise him or her -- they could turn out like the bastard who raped you?? Lets face it, no matter how good your parenting is... a child may not turn out how you tried to raise them (several of you fit that bill I'm sure.... I doubt your mothers raised you to be jackasses... yet you are)

I am not for abortion at all for myself, and I am not for it as a form of birth control -- but there are circumstances that are beyond our control sometimes... but I realize after reading some of your comments on this and other articles... that some of you could never comprehend such a thing.

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88Teacher4specialneeds(2 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

I know you will all jump on me about the comment of a med problem that could result in both a baby and mothers death.

If that baby would somehow make it... the mother needs to be there to raise it too.

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89MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Thank you USA1 for making the case for choice!

He writes: "I agree with you; sometime special circumstances are a reason for abortion."

After all of your blathering about MURDER and HIT MAN DOCTORS, you now acknowledge that it's ok in "special circumstances". That is EXACTLY what pro-choice advocates are fighting for so THANK YOU for opening your mind and accepting the real truth.

Of course, we may disagree where to draw the line but the key point in this entire debate is should abortion be one option, not the ONLY option, perhaps not the FIRST option but should it be one of the available choices. Now that we agree that it is, can we stop the rhetoric and see if there is anymore common ground?

I feel we've made real progress here!

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90snyder(13 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

By law- Abortion is not Murder and not illegal. If women want/need Abortions they will go elsewhere. This is not going to stop because there isnt a local clinic.some believers think Abortion should be stopped- but I cant afford to pay for all those children that are wards of the state. Let women chose- it is not personal to those it doesnt affect. We dont know their situation and should respect it. People should mind their own business. More focus should be on the kids that are killing others with guns in the streets of Youngstown

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91snyder(13 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

USA1- no one has determined when a fetus can live on their own- until then it isnt murder- im sure you dont believe in capital punishment as well. There needs to be more education on birth control and parents willing to discuss sex with their children instead of ignoring the problem.

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92Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

IS THE KILLING OF THE UNBORN CONSIDERED MURDER ?

http://www.patriotledger.com/news/x16...

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93snyder(13 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

USA1- you made the perfect point that should believe in the right to have an abortion. A baby needs constat care from their parents. What if those parents arent equipped to take care of the baby?

I believe in capital punishment and surprised you are due to the fact it would be considered murder-possible premeditated murder.Are you saying all those people who have the life support turned off of their sick relatives are murderers?Unless in their situation- cant dictate their choices. We all have our own morals- and there are reasons we have them. This is supposed to be a free country which lets us think how we want without judgement. These people who are praising God and live by the Bible- Do you actually think they live a sinless life? They dont believe in birth control,gambling or drinking. But it is ok to play bingo at the church or drink at their festivals. We wont even get into the issues that Catholic priests have had. As long as people research their decision and weigh the pros and cons of it- it is their choice and who are we to judge them?

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94valleygal(24 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Snyder - a baby that is born full term cannot “live on their own”; in fact, I don’t know many teenagers that can do so either... so if a baby born prematurely cannot survive without assistance is it not yet human? Once a woman’s egg has been fertilized by the man, it will never be other than a person and just needs the opportunity to grow and develop, whether inside or outside of the womb. If that baby should die through natural causes (either before birth or after), it is not mine to say what might have been - yes MVP, there is no point in going there... but even though the law says I have the right to end that life before that child is born, I believe that does not make it morally right. And if I am the one making a decision affecting the life of another then I think that the “what might have been” is a valid consideration.

Whether that child turns out to be an inspirational story or a tragedy, as you would put it, is up to what that person does with their life; and I do not presume that it is my right to make that decision for them. Again, I am under the belief that it is a human life and not just a part of the mother’s body; thus making the decision to abort is not only affecting the mother, it is affecting the child as well. All I am saying is that because I operate under the premise that there is a life there, I don’t believe that it is up to me to decide whether that life is worth living or not and thus I arrive at my conclusion that abortion is wrong.

There are questions we each have to answer and unless we agree on the answers to these we will probably never be in agreement as to the abortion issue. I think that the primary such question relates to the point at which life begins. If a person believes that there is a life there and makes the decision to abort anyway, then that is a decision that they will have to live with. Because our nation’s laws allow for abortion it is not illegal, but there are still consequences to our actions. Besides eternal consequences (which could be a subject for a whole new thread), there are also “real world” consequences not only affecting the health of the would-be mother, but also of missing out on the potential of the lives that could have been - whether for good or for bad.

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95Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

snyder :

"As long as people research their decision and weigh the pros and cons of it- it is their choice and who are we to judge them?"

KILLING HER UNBORN RESULTED IN A MURDER CHARGE !

http://www.patriotledger.com/news/x16...

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96planforthebest(53 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

I for one am glad the center is closed. Back in the late 1990s several of my friends went to the center for the "free pregnancy test" and were then pressured to have abortions there.

They were told things like, "You can't possibly be considering having this baby, it will ruin your life," and "You aren't mature enough to be a mother. You can hardly take care of yourself," and "You'll have to drop out of college and you'll never go back," and "Having a baby can ruin your health and many women die in childbirth. Is that what you want, to die at 23?"

My personal favorites were what they told my best friend, "If you give your baby away for adoption, it will probably be adopted by pedophiles and live it's life in agony," and what they told my first college roommate, "It's not alive, it's just a glob of tissue that acts like a parasite. There's a parasite growing inside you and it will feed off you until you get it out."

I think business started falling off for the clinic because young college students started talking about the things they were told and realized they were being pressured to end pregnancies not because it was right for them but because abortions are a profitable business and that's how they paid for the free pregnancy tests.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that one of my friends went there for the pregnancy test, was told it was positive and was pressured to have an abortion, but she went to the health center for a second opinion and found out she wasn't pregnant after all. I wonder how many abortions they performed on women who weren't really pregnant?

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97Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Mary Ann Baker is truly a remarkable woman in the eyes of satan . She made a fortune from the killing of babies and today talks of enjoying her granchildren and traveling . There is no remorse for the killing of thousands who aren't able to be with their living grandparents today .

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98smcMD(1 comment)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

For everyone participating in this argument-
to get evidence based facts regarding abortion please visit guttmacher.org

1. It is NOT safer for a women to have an induced delivery OR C-section. In fact it is statistically safer to have a first trimester abortion than wear a tampon riding on the highway.
2. "Abortion mills" are NOT "big bucks". There is nearly zero profit associated with providing abortions
3. The closing of this clinic should not be a celebratory event. Women will still seek choice and will do so whether in a legal or illegal manner. As other posts stated, this clinic was a source of information and guidance about CHOICE.

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99walter_sobchak(1893 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Women have a choice. I just wish the choice would be about life, not abortion. All life is precious. Pro-choice should be pro-life.

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100JustAThought(7 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

For all of you who say you don't believe in God, please answer me just one question. Where did we come from?

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101luvmichelleobama(5 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

IF YOU WANT TO GET AN ABORTION IT'S YOUR RIGHT NOT ANYBODY'S BUSINESS! NO WOMEN ARE NOT DECIDING THEY DON'T NEED ABORTIONS THAT'S NOT WHY THE CENTER CLOSED, ITS JUST CHEAPER IN AKRON AND CLEVELAND THE BIGGER CITIES!

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102planforthebest(53 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

smcMD said, "In fact it is statistically safer to have a first trimester abortion than wear a tampon riding on the highway."

smc, I never let my tampons ride on the highway. They have to stay in the box until I need them.

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103AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Hey usa1 pro-conservaterican,sad day for you eh buddy? Your American idol Roeder was convicted of first degree murder.Woohoo.Justice is served.Is this a great country or what? Only took a jury of sensible,salt of the earth Mid-Westerners 37 minutes to drop the hammer on him. I`m sure there were at least a few of your far right conservative peers on that jury which makes it all the more sweeter that the scumbag murderer will be hopefully spending the rest of his life in a prison cell with a very,large liberal Democrat named Bubba. See,I tried to tell you that shooting an innocent,defenseless man in the forehead in his church wasn`t legal! Have a good night usa1 pro-conservaterican.I know I will.

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104MVP(67 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

lol @ Axle. Of course, according to Roeder's own testimony, he should have been executed since he believes that someone who "kills" should be killed.

I am really lmao at usa who once again shows his ignorance by resorting to insults and unsubstantiated hysterics because he can't seem to form a logical, rational thought. You take yourself WAY too seriously. I know because everyone else on this board is laughing at you! :)

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105AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

MVP,I`m sure that usa1 pro-conservaterican is booking his flight right now to take his murdering buddy a care package.I hope it`s a big box because he will likely receive 50 years.I notice since his buddy Roeder was convicted, usa1 pro-conservaterican hasn`t been on here spouting his usual drivel about 60,000 murdered babies but he`s probably packing.lol

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106CitizenJ(34 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Just as an onlooker that's browsed this discussion over the past few weeks, I've learned a few things. If you disagree with Stan or USA1, you are FOOL.

I've also learned that when they are countered with sound, rational explanations of others' opinions, mainly those varying from their own, they counter with off-topic remarks, and make it clear that you are a FOOL.

I think most everyone on this board would agree, pro-choice or pro-life, that abortion is not necessarily a good thing. But, living in the great country we live in, people are free to choose. This is just one of many things that make our country great. And regardless of what side of the fence you're on, the law is pretty clear in that abortion is legal, and people do have that choice. I for one, do not agree with abortion, but that does not mean I have the right to tell someone else no they can't have one. If they choose to do so, that's on them.

Another thing in reference to some earlier comments in this thread about Jesus being pro-choice, and what if he were aborted, etc. Applying that same logic, for all you know, the anti-christ was aborted? Also, what if Bin Laden had been aborted? Or Hitler? etc.

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107CitizenJ(34 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

wow...

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108Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

CitizenJ :

Ah yes, the freedom to choose . Nobody should be inhibited no matter what or who they destroy . Perhaps we should not be hasty to judge Jamar Houser either .

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109AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Hey usa1 pro-conservaterican,are you finally done weeping for your murdering buddy Roeder? Talk about being a fool.Whew! Still no facts to back up your phony 60,000 murdered babies drivel eh? And Dr.Tiller was a phony Christian according to you? Dude if you are an example of a "REAL" Christian,I would urge a mass exodus from Christianity for all the believers out there. Wow it only took that jury 37 minutes to convict your psycho pal Scotty.Hopefully he gets at least 50 years but I`m sure he will inspire other wingnuts out there to kill and you will be a big supporter of them also.And you have the guts to call other people names? Classic.

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110snyder(13 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

USA- isnt the United States a free country? where we can make decisions regarding our life? If abortion was illegal then it wouldnt be a decision we can make on our own. It is legal, therefore it is the womans choice what to do with her own body- NOT YOURS. I am sure there are things that you do that bothers other people, but you do it for yourself. Mind your business and let people do what they are allowed to do.

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111LtMacGowan(642 comments)posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Exactly Snyder. Lets face facts people. The current law in the U.S. says that Abortion is legal and that a Fetus is NOT a person. I personally could never abort a child of mine but I defend the rights of women over their own bodies. NO ONE has the right to tell another person what they can or can not do with their own bodies and the law in this instance supports this. There is nothing more asinine than people proclaiming they are doing the lord's work by killing abortion doctors and personnel.

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112snyder(13 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

USA- now you are saying the governement determines when a baby is a baby? In your mind that means the government is legalizing murder. The government would not legalize a crime or would they? USA- by your name i would believe you are a true american and believe in the government-do you not trust them now? You keep bringing up WHAT IF'S. If your aunt had balls she would be your uncle. What Ifs dont change the fact it is not your business what people decide to do for themselves. I believe in Pro choice- my personal beliefs on what i would do in that sitaution doesnt matter. It is about making the right choice for those involved. We dont know every situation and cant judge all those based on certain beliefs.

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113snyder(13 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

USA- IT IS FUNNY CALLING YOU THAT. IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE CURRENT SITUATION OF THE UNITED STATES- THEN YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME TO RELOCATE. WHO CARES IF THE PRESIDENT HASNT SHOWN HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE? THE PREVIOUS REGIME SENT THOUSANDS OF KIDS TO IRAQ TO BE KILLED- THIS IS NOT A PERFECT COUNTRY AND MISTAKES WILL ALWAYS BE MADE. WHO YOU OR A FAMILY MEMBER CARRY A RAPISTS FETUS? NO EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE IN REGARDS TO DECISIONS. THE WHOLE WORLD HAS SHADES OF GREY.
LETS JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE YOU WILL NOT CHANGES MY MIND AND YOU WONT CHANGE YOURS EITHER.

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114AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Hey usa1 pro-conservaterican,did you read the main editorial in the Vindicator today,Tuesday Feb.2nd? Kudos to whomever penned it. It`s awesome.There is no doubt in my mind that when they were writing about the anti-abortion lunatic fringe,they had you in mind.They are overjoyed that your murdering psychopath pal Scotty Roeder was convicted of murdering an innocent man.Being a die hard ultra conservative,I thought you were supposed to stand for truth,justice and the American way usa1-pro-conservaterican?You should be happy as Sarah Palin in waders, a crazed killer is off the streets.But alas, of course your hypocrisy bleeds through on this issue like all your other issues.If it doesn`t fit into your teeny,tiny,narrow agenda then conventional wisdom flies out the window.I`m going to e-mail Mr. Mangan and ask him to write an editorial about the crazed birthers next.You obviously need to be schooled on that issue also.By the way since all those Conservatives met with our President the other day,that is their tacit admission that he is in fact an American citizen,otherwise why would they bother.Lol.Drat,foiled again usa1 pro-conservaterican.Even by your own conservatives.Is this a great country or what? lol.When you write your buddy Roeder,tell him I said have a great day.

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115AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Once again,you are wrong usa1 pro-conservaterican.You should get your facts from other sources besides Glenny Beck and your other conservative media lunatics.Over 300 terrorists have been tried in our court system with a conviction rate of 100%.What are you far right conservatives afraid of? This is the United States of America.We can handle putting scumbag terrorists on trial.Get some intestinal fortitude and lose the wimpiness.

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