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4,000 pay homage to ‘a blessed life’ at Covelli Centre



Published: Thu, February 11, 2010 @ 12:01 a.m.

By LINDA M. LINONIS

Vindicator Staff Writer

YOUNGSTOWN — An estimated 4,000 walked, drove, came by bus and traveled by plane — all in snowy conditions — to pay their respects during a “homegoing service” Wednesday in the Covelli Centre for Bishop Norman L. Wagner.

The bishop, who died Feb. 6, was pastor of Calvary Ministries International and known worldwide as a minister and speaker.

Public viewing was from 9 to 11 a.m. with the nearly five-hour service concluding about 4 p.m. The Levites of Calvary provided musical tributes.

Burial followed at Green Haven Memorial Gardens in Canfield and concluded a three-day event that included a Gospel music concert and public viewing.

Among the mourners were Deacon Joseph Menefee of Faith Ministries in Tuskegee, Ala., who drove 20 hours with his traveling companion, Bishop George Alston. The young deacon said they came to attend the homegoing service and pay “homage to a blessed life.” Menefee said Wagner’s life was dedicated to God, and that the service echoed that.

Elaine Harp Carlton of Columbus, formerly of Youngstown, spent 41⁄2 hours on the road to attend Tuesday and Wednesday services. “He was a great mentor,” said Carlton, whose father, Richard Harp, was a deacon at Calvary for 40 years. Carlton said Wagner fostered the goal of a “spirit of excellence” in her and many others.

A host of speakers addressed “heavy hearts” at Bishop Wagner’s passing. All noted the spiritual legacy of leadership and faith that Bishop Wagner left his family, congregation and community, locally and globally.

Bishop Wagner served as presiding prelate of the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World Inc. from 1998-2004 with more than 2,000 churches under his leadership. In 1986, he developed an international leadership conference, Pentecost In Perspective, that took place in the city.

Some speakers voiced the emotion being felt — that Bishop Wagner had been taken too soon. But Bishop Horace Smith, who delivered the eulogy, used a well-known passage from the Bible as an explanation. The passage was from Ecclesiastes 3:1-8, “For everything there is a season, And a time for every matter under heaven; A time to be born, and a time to die” ....

The presiding prelate of the PAW, told the crowd that “we hurt today because we have lost a brother and father.”

“If you knew him 25 minutes or 25 years, you knew he was special,” Bishop Smith said. The bishop also said that Bishop Wagner’s life’s work instilled courage and faith in all those he touched, and that will be his most enduring legacy.

Bishop Lance Foster, of the 8th Episcopal District of PAW, offered a Scripture reading and noted that Bishop Wagner showed that worship was not “just clapping and singing but a lifestyle.”

Bishop A. Glenn Brady, PAW secretary, described the late bishop as “a pioneer in the Pentecostal circle.”

Bishop Michael Franklin, 31st Episcopal District of PAW, said Bishop Wagner often said that life was a gift and he advised all to honor that thought by valuing life.

Franklin C. Showell, presiding prelate of International Bibleway Church of Jesus, called Bishop Wagner a “generation trendsetter.” He noted the bishop encouraged all to pursue an extraordinary life. “There is no separation between spiritual life and your other life.”

Monsignor Robert Siffrin, vicar general and moderator of the curia for the Catholic Diocese of Youngstown, who said he knew Bishop Wagner for 20 years, said: “He epitomized the message of the Gospel.” Monsignor Siffrin said that people should “follow his example of serving God’s people.”

Bishop Monroe Saunders Jr., presiding prelate of the United Churches of Jesus Christ, described Bishop Wagner as the “epitome of an apostolic statesman” and “visionary.”

District Elder June Cranston Young, representing the European Council of Nations, London, England, said Bishop Wagner’s leadership “empowered the people.” He founded and presided over ECN, a Christian organization of church leaders in Europe of varying ethnicities and languages from some 40 churches, for 20 years.

The bishop’s brother, Arnold J. Wagner, offered glimpses into their childhood and praised his sibling’s “global ministry.”


Comments

1Attis(862 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

"I hate, I despise your religious feasts; I cannot stand your assemblies...But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like an ever-lasting stream" (The Lord through Amos, a real prophet)

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2SemperTyrannis(49 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Wagner was the head of a church located in an extremely economically disadvantaged African American neighborhood; yet, he lived a life of comfort in an exclusive, white neighborhood in Canfield?

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3redgpgtp(37 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

No it doesn't bother me, actually I am not surprised especially while driving past the church I would see $80,000 + Mercedes or BMW's parked in his assigned parking spot, at the church in a neighborhood where the average home value is $7,000 if that.

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4Max(81 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I agree completely. Having seen the Canfield home he lived in, and the cars he drove, I don't understand how people genuinely revere this man while a good percentage of people he preaches to live in poverty.

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5ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Buzz off losers. He had ONE Mercedes. You will never have one because all you do is post on the internet during work hours...instead of working.

Youngstown Scum. It amazes me how you people are. I drive a luxury car because I work hard. He worked hard...and was a TRUE man of God.

You don't know who he preached to! His members did NOT live in poverty....YOU PROBABLY DO. You guys are really scum...please leave Youngstown.

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6Max(81 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

ytown3,

Buddy, you are trying to tell me that you are some kind of hard-working, succesful person who drives a luxury car. But look at the 3 posts you have made so far. You certainly don't talk like an educated, succesful person. You talk like an UNeducated fool.

All 3 of your posts are defending Wagner. You only signed on to Vindy.com to post about him. So you want us to believe that you have no connection to him, and that you are an unbiased concerned person.

I left Youngstown a LONG time ago. I DO drive a nice car. I DO have a job (own my own business in fact, so I am on my computer all day), and I happen to live a street over from Wagner (hardly "poverty"), so that's how I have seen the home and cars he owned. The neighbors here have commented on the fact that it's amazing how a "TRUE man of God," as you refer to him, can live in such luxury.

If you were truly so intelligent, you would be able to make a point without randomly throwing out uninformed accusations at people and calling them childish names.

You tell me to LEAVE Youngstown. Well you should just STAY there.

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7Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

SemperTyrannis :

"Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Wagner was the head of a church located in an extremely economically disadvantaged African American neighborhood; yet, he lived a life of comfort in an exclusive, white neighborhood in Canfield?"

Jamar Houser a black man was out foraging for money when he came to St. Dominics Church to kill and rob an old woman for a few dollars . Yep, a Catholic Church . Bishop Norman L. Wagner lived very well in comparison to anyone from this church . Did he know of the blacks on the Southside experiencing hunger spiritual and otherwise ?

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8SemperTyrannis(49 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I thought that men of God were supposed to be humble and turn their backs on material goods-just as Jesus did? Why live in nearly all-white Canfield when your flock is mostly black and in the city? The guy had a chauffer! Yet, his church sits in the middle of a distressed neighborhood!

"And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

From the Book of Matthew

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9ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Max,

My education speaks for itself. There is a saying we have in my profession...res ipsa loquitor. If you have any intelligence at all, which I highly doubt, that saying will lead you to exactly what I do for a living.

Nonetheless, I apologize for dumbing down my comments to individuals that I may characterize as imbeciles. Maybe you are not. Again, I highly doubt that.

I will defend the Bishop until I die. And the last time I checked...one street over from where he lived...well, there are apartments over there!

And moving to Canfield is hardly leaving Youngstown...hilarious.

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10ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

As for SymperTyrannis,

How dare you place Mr Houser on Calvary's door step. If that were the case, St. Dominic's is just as responsible. That conclusion was the most illogical one you have made to date; and you make a lot of them.

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11ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

That last comment was meant for Stan

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12SemperTyrannis(49 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I didn't place Houser on Calvary's doorstep, that was Stan. Go back and read the comments.

Secondly, there are BIG differences between Canfield and Youngstown: Canfield has a non-existent crime rate; Youngstown is one of the most dangerous cities in America; Canfield is nearly all-white; Youngstown is half African American.

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13Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

ytown3 "

Has anyone from Calvary Ministries visited with the Housers while they are in jail ? Did anyone bother with them before they went to jail ?

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14ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Stan,

Did you visit with the Housers? There are Hundreds of churches, civic organizations and the like in Youngstown. How is it that the Housers have become linked with Calvary?

In fact, the crime occurred far away from Calvary. Mt. Calvary is not responsible for the actions of every black person in the city. That is ignorant. I trust that this is not your premise?

What Houser allegedly did (another clue for Max) was disgusting. I am sure if he is guilty, justice will take its course. But to blame that on a church whose membership CONSTANTLY adds to the greater good is simply ignorant. But you know that.

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15ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Tyrannis (I hope yopu don't mind the shortening of your name. It becomes burdensome to type it.)

There is no difference between Canfield and Youngstown. Sure, the racial demogrhapic you so accurately describe is correct, however, the geography shows little to no difference at all. In fact, Canfield does not even register on the map UNLESS it is associated with Youngstown.

Despite your endless attempts to differentiate the two, the truth remains. Canfield and Youngstown (Boardman and Austintown too) will forever be intrinsically linked to one another.

So back to my point...moving to Canfield is HARDLY leaving Youngstown.

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16JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Prosecution or defense ytown3? Just curious. (There is no right answer...)

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17ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Neither Jeff. Corporate. Don't live in Youngstown anymore.

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18JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Good for you man.

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19ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Mikeymike, that does not justify a substantive response.

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20Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

ytown3 :

"Stan,

Did you visit with the Housers?"

In the past I had exerted my influence on others . I am a white Catholic . They felt that there was a need for black ministerial services to blanket the area and minister to the poor blacks . They are the forgotten ones .

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21Ginger76(178 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Did his family fall on hard times since his illness? I see his house has a Negotiated Sold Tax Lien on it.

Holy Pebble Beach Bat Man.

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22SemperTyrannis(49 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

paulb,

You hit the nail right on the head. The reality of Canfield, Ohio is not the reality of the Oak Hill neighborhood. Why didn't Wagner want to live in the neighborhood his own church was in? Why have a mercedes and a Chaufeer when you are supposed to be a man of God? Would the lord Jesus be living in a mansion in Canfield?

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23Max(81 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Aahhh, now I see. Ytown 3 is a liberal lawyer. Well that explains alot.

A few of ytown3 's comments BEFORE he was called out for "dumbing down" his language:

"Buzz off losers."
"Youngstown Scum"
"His members did NOT live in poverty....YOU PROBABLY DO"
"SHUT YOUR LIPS!"
"You are just common Youngstown trash"
"No body who isn't a piece of crap would call someone like you friend"
"You will be dead soon too...I am sure."
"You will never have one because all you do is post on the internet during work hours." (The funny part about this one is that ytown3 has himself posted 8 times in the last 3 hours!)

And now suddenly you're an educated intellectual. Hmmmm.

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24dateline111(41 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Prosperity Preacher Rev. Ike Dies at 74
Thursday, 30 July 2009 04:06 PM EDT Adrienne S. Gaines News - Featured News

The minister known as Reverend Ike, who preached a gospel of prosperity that stretched the limits of biblical orthodoxy, died on Tuesday at age 74.

The Rev. Frederick J. Eikerenkoetter II suffered a stroke in 2007 and never fully recovered, the New York Times reported. He died in Los Angeles, where he moved two years ago.

Although he began preaching in his father's Baptist church, the South Carolina native was best known for teaching what he called "positive self-image psychology" to his 5,000-member church, the United Church Science of Living Institute in New York.

In the 1970s, Eikerenkoetter took his message to millions through his television and radio broadcasts, famously preaching that it was not the love of money that was the root of all kinds of evil, as 1 Timothy 6:10 states, but rather the lack of it.

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25ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Each of you place such a negative stigma on Calvary's congregation. You see, that congregation IS NOT poor. Rather, its members pick themselves up by their bootstraps, with the help of God and the teachings from the church. You would be hard pressed to find one among the membership that lives in poverty. Instead, you find doctors, lawyers, politicians, bankers, educators, masters degrees, and other hard working people.

You make such generalizations about black people, that you ignorantly assume that the members of the church are poor.

Youngstown has a lot of problems. But I am quickly identifying ignorance as one of the top problems. Ignorance from whites, catholics, protestants, blacks, and every other walk of life. It is sad. Please do not ever refer to Calvary as having a poor congregation. You are wrong.

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26Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

"Please do not ever refer to Calvary as having a poor congregation."

OK ! Lets see some one from Calvary minister to The Housers who are in jail . Or are they too uppety to minister to one of their own who has bottomed out ?

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27Jon(27 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Very nice tribute. Does anyone know if this is the same bishop that didn't pay his half a million dollar home's property taxes for a few years? I think that same priest bought the Idora Park property & didn't pay the taxes on that for years also. Can anyone verify?

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28abcd987(9 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Sounds like ytown3 is a supporter of annexation. Denial is the first step in admitting that there is no problem. Especially when the problem is in bold,and neon letters. Slapping you in the face, and sptiing for at you. If you honestly in all your senses believe that there is no difference between Austintown, Boardman, Canfield, and what goes on in Youngstown then you are in a universe far, far away. I am guessing you are trying to equate the community's as one, because you have been indoctrinated into a belief system that if everyone else around Youngstown begin to pay for Youngstown then it will be a better place.Thus justifying a man who represented a certain community, but lived in another, but was still apart of that community indirectly. However Pastor Alford who passed on a few years ago, actually moved into Youngstown, after leaving his church. Now he 'LIVED' in the community, therefore he also represented his community. There is a difference. That is also not to say that Norman Wagnor wasn't a good man, that did a lot of good for a lot of people. I am sure that he did. However wouldn't a strong willed, good hearted, loving man who garnered the utmost respect from his community, be better served living in the community that he served.

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29ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

There is so much negativity to respond to. I am so excited. I don't know where to begin.

Lets see...Max, you fist. Yeah...I think I am done with you. Shut your lips. Your intellect does not qualify you to be in this conversation any longer. I can post as much as I like because, unlike you, I don't need to work all day.

Why do so many people believe that because you are black you have to live on the Southside? It is comical. We don't like crime either! If you conservative bellyachers had your way, you would have everyone with brown skin live in Westlake Terrace.

The truth is that there are good black people in Youngstown. Lots of them. They are in Canfield, Austintown and Boardman too.

The posts that are put on here are so closed minded. What community do you think Bishop Wagner represented??? Why do you continue to think we are poor and downtrodden? We are not. Just because the church is on Oakhill does not mean all of its members are. I urge each of you to visit. I reckon you will be surprised by what you find.

And for those of the members that are from the city, they are good people. We don't blame the Catholic Diocese for every crime committed by a white person. That is ignorance. We don't place the weight of the city on the diocese. There is just as much white scum as there is black. Indeed, scum has no color.

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30Max(81 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Wow, ytown3, really showed your colors there, didn't you?!

You are right-- not worth continuing in this conversation. You are completely transparent and we can all see your agenda.

Have a nice day.

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31Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

ytown3 :

"Meanwhile, his church in Youngstown has a value of $178k and has a whopping $27 a year tax bill, but the tax bills go to the county for back taxes being owed:
NEGOTIATED SOLD TAX LIEN
CONTACT MAHONING COUNTY TREASURER
YOUNGSTOWN, OH 44503 USA"

"Mr. Wagner's home was purchased for a whopping $975,000 back in 1998."

Now am I the only one that sees a problem ? It looks like the people supported Bishop Norman L. Wagner very well . So there was no money to pay the $27. yearly tax on the church ? Why not ?

I still would like to see some one from Calvary Ministries go to the jail and minister to The Housers .

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32TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Not gonna get into the financial debate

Equating Canfield and the South Side is absolutely inaccurate.

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33Lou123(5 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

It amazes how people have the ability to turn every situation into something negative. Here we have a great man who's impacted so many lives and all you people want to do is criticize him. You weren’t a part of his congregation so therefore you have no idea what went on. Who are you to judge him or his congregation? Who cares what he was driving or where he lived…why does that matter? What matters is he was a man of God, a wonderful husband and loving father and grandfather.
Out of all the people on here complaining about what he hasn’t done to change the community let me ask you this…what have you done?
Stan have you visited Jamar Houser and family to lend a helping hand or words of encouragement? Who are you mentoring? Are you saving any lives?
I didn’t know Bishop Wagner that well but the few times I’ve come in contact with him I was pleased.
In conclusion, while you all are sitting at your computers pointing the finger, being judgmental and doing nothing for the “Youngstown” community…keep the negativity to yourself and MAKE A CHANGE!

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34Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Lou123 :

"Stan have you visited Jamar Houser and family to lend a helping hand or words of encouragement? Who are you mentoring? Are you saving any lives?"

I am trying to turn this into a positive situation for the forgotten ones . The Housers . Calvary Ministries is better equipped than I am to minister to them . So would this be a problem ?

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35TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Quit making excuses Stan. If you were the Catholic/Christian you claim to be, then you'd be ministering as well.

In reference to Lou's comment, I'm not sure that asking about the church's finances and the spending of money within the ministry is being judgmental.

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36onthetown(254 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

"Who cares what he was driving or where he lived…why does that matter? What matters is he was a man of God.."

What you are driving and where you live reflect the way you utilize the resources God has entrusted to you as his servant. When the value of a pastor's home exceeds the value of the building in which the church community that pays his/her salary meets.. that should be cause for concern. It is not mere negativity, but a valid point/topic for discussion.

I've never met Bishop Wagner, I'm not familiar with his ministry, and I don't stand in any position to judge him. But generally speaking, I do believe that those in ministry (as pastors AND as parishioners) should live modestly.

I do agree that Stan, as per usual, has taken this beyond the point of rational thinking in his connection of Jamar Houser and Calvary Ministries.

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37urbanview(7 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

It just does not make sense to me that there are people who would ignore the witness of 4000+ people who came out in a snow storm from 3 continents to honor and pay respect to this Man of God. Regardless of what kind of car he drove, despite where he lived, it is hard to deny this great crowd. There is no one that you can name regionally, Jim Traficant, Tim Ryan…, or for that matter state wide or even nationally that was not in a high profile office, that would command that type of respect. And you want to know if anyone is upset because there were poor people who lived down the street from his church……..Please, how foolish!!!!

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38urbanview(7 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

The great upstanding white men of Canfield are busy taking advantage of youth, why should anybody honor Bishop Wagner, after all look at the car he is driving.

http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/feb/12...

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39ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Paulb,

Do you research. Legacy was not around when Mayor Williams graduated. And no public figure in this city, past or present could command 4000 people to pay respect. I don't care where they held their funeral.

Who cares who pays for the funeral. All you can do is worry about what you pay for. Do you contribute to Calvary? If not, it should not concern you.

Shame on anyone who has turned this man's death into a conversation about his home or car. What matters s the lives he has changed. What will be your stories when you die? Really, ponder this. Who will come and say you were great? Will there be 4000? Will there be 4?

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40TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

The number of people should be irrelevant though. While it's a great testimony to the man's life, I thought we were all equal in the eyes of God.

I do think, if a person is going to claim to be a Christian and a follower of Jesus, then the person should aspire to be Christlike in all ways. I don't know that, were Jesus around today, he would be living in a large house and driving a luxury car. I think the question of finances is a legitimate question, although bringing it up on the day of a funeral or even a few days after is probably tactless.

The cost of the funeral will definitely present a financial burden on the congregation at the church. This has already been brought up on a recent Sunday.

I wonder if the cost of the funeral will severely hamper the church's ability to build their new church by Mill Creek Park.

To address Urbanview's post that no one will demand the same level of homage...on a national level, I'd imagine Billy Graham will draw quite a crowd at his funeral. I'd also imagine there will be former Presidents paying honor to him. On a regional level, James Traficant will draw an enormous crowd. I'd even imagine if, God forbid, Kelly Pavlik were to die suddenly that he would draw quite a large crowd.

Don't get lost in the numbers and the pomp and circumstance. Look to Bishop's teachings and The Word for solace.

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41urbanview(7 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

People read into things whatever they want! Don’t miss the point that a conversation from an outsider about where the Bishop lives and what kind of car he drives pails in significance to the voices of those who travelled from all over this country as well as others who knew the man. It’s not about the numbers; my point was that not knowing anything about the situation, I would be a fool to discount so many in favor on one that has no knowledge, just an opinion. I have no doubt the Bishop’s funeral expenses were paid just like everyone else’s otherwise that would be another part of the story.

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42ndflores(1 comment)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

it is a shame when a TRUE MAN OF GOD goes to heaven and still people want to say negative things about him but really know nothing about him but only what they may have heard but never experienced for themselves. Dont talk about someone you dont know personally or period especially a man of God because where your sould will end up in the end is not a place you want to be. I cannot believe people see the negative things they want to see but do not look at the positive things he has done. Bishop has healed people from cancer and saved lives and so much more. For what he has whether it be cars houses or anything he got those blessings from God himself, doubt God for what he gives you he can also take it away just as fast as he has given it to you. Work hard do what you have to do and you will receive those blessings also but to say those things about him and know nothing is totally out of hand and you may want to re think what you say about him..

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43nmc(2 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

These comments have me in tears, as does the news of the death of Bishop Norman L. Wagner. I just heard of his passing. I live in Iowa and visited Youngstown several times to attend "Pentecost in Perspective" during my early college years. During this time I was hurting and learned things from those services and seminars that have helped shape me into the successful woman I am today. I feel sad for the people bashing him. If you really knew him or had even brief contact with him as I did, you would know that he was one of the kindest, most generous people in the ministry, PERIOD.

People preoccupy themselves with his material possessions, what he drives, earns, wears, or WHATEVER. I have WITNESSED people GIVE him cars, money, etc. because they themselves had it to give and were blessed by his ministry. The bible speaks of God returning blessings to us. Please read Luke 6:38 (KJV). This man gave until it hurt and God returned it back to him. By the accounts of many he was humble, kind, funny, anointed, and he will be greatly missed by people all over the world. I praise and thank God for the way his ministry has impacted my life. God bless everyone posting here.

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44nmc(2 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

One last thing, I'm always mystified when non-believers can attempt to tell Christians how we are supposed to live and conduct ourselves better than we can tell each other. Thanks, but we can handle that. The scriptures also speak of part of the church being corrupt in the last days (too many passages to list), but that doesn't mean EACH and EVERY servant of God is counterfeit.

Part of the last few years I have spent away from the church because of the corruption I saw PEOPLE committing. I am NOW BACK under the protection of Christ because I searched, sought, and found the truth of God for myself. Who cares what someone else in the church is doing? Seek Christ for yourself! What are you gaining by tearing down someone who would have accepted you like family?

Please, I ask of you, seek Christ...He is the best thing that will ever happen to you.

And ytown3, I know you may be upset, but name calling isn't doing any justice to the memory of this leader who touched the lives of so many.

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45Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

onthetown :

"I do agree that Stan, as per usual, has taken this beyond the point of rational thinking in his connection of Jamar Houser and Calvary Ministries."

Rational thinking would ignore the poor on the Southside that have very little for the collection plate ? Jamar Houser and his family are the forgotten ones . There are plenty of families like the Housers living without the benefit of knowing Jesus Christ . Perhaps in memory of Bishop Norman L. Wagner his church could reach out to those lost souls .

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46MykeeG(3 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Listen people, Here are a few things that you can never understand about this guy. I can tell you how good of a guy he was all day, but it doesnt matter because all you see is the things that you DONT have. CARS,HOUSES ,CLOTHES,etc. This man never NEEDED to be in Youngstown. He CHOSE to be at youngstown. If YOU CAN READ..... you"ll see that this man was asked to speak ALL over the world and was PAID for it. HANDSOMELY!!!! HIs money Not Calvary's money...although i do understand some of your points. NOW....my 2nd point is that, becaus e everyone is only concerned with the money he made, no one aligned themself with him in order to make plans for a better Youngstown....but he did. He taught and gave education to our PRESENT MAYOR. (an actual non corrupt politician, LOOK AT THAT) He gave discounted education to many in his own school. k-12. He fed people. He gave people money out his pocket. He was never stingy. But the outside perseption is that of a drug dealer.

See Youngstown is not ready for millionaire's. CRABS IN THE BARREL mentality. I went to his church as a poor man. Gained Knowledge, and now i live in L.A. i spend twice as much as most of you for a smaller home. ITS NOT MONEY....ITS MENTALITY!!!!!!

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47MykeeG(3 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Listen people, Here are a few things that you can never understand about this guy. I can tell you how good of a guy he was all day, but it doesnt matter because all you see is the things that you DONT have. CARS,HOUSES ,CLOTHES,etc. This man never NEEDED to be in Youngstown. He CHOSE to be at youngstown. If YOU CAN READ..... you"ll see that this man was asked to speak ALL over the world and was PAID for it. HANDSOMELY!!!! HIs money Not Calvary's money...although i do understand some of your points. NOW....my 2nd point is that, becaus e everyone is only concerned with the money he made, no one aligned themself with him in order to make plans for a better Youngstown....but he did. He taught and gave education to our PRESENT MAYOR. (an actual non corrupt politician, LOOK AT THAT) He gave discounted education to many in his own school. k-12. He fed people. He gave people money out his pocket. He was never stingy. But the outside perseption is that of a drug dealer.

See Youngstown is not ready for millionaire's. CRABS IN THE BARREL mentality. I went to his church as a poor man. Gained Knowledge, and now i live in L.A. i spend twice as much as most of you for a smaller home. ITS NOT MONEY....ITS MENTALITY!!!!!!

wow yall cant even let the dude die in peace!!!

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48Nunya22(315 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

I just want to know why does it matter where he live and what type of car he drives? Is it really needed to judge a man who is deceased whom some of you didn't know personally? Did I know Bishop Wagner? No nor am I going to talk trash on his name judging him with no facts of what type of person he was when he was alive.

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49dateline111(41 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Luke 16:19-31 (King James Version)

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
REV.WAGNER THE RICHMAN/ LAZARUS IS Y-TOWN

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50ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Dateline,

That is a foolish comparison. You obviously have no personal knowledge of Bishop Wagner. How foolish.

He gave until it hurt him...personally. He gave to his school, to his parishoner to his senior citizen complex, to his little league football team and to the COUNTLESS individuals who had the PRIVILEGE of learning from him.

Now, if you want to compare Youngstown to Sodom and Gomarrah...please be my guest.

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51dateline111(41 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Financial Success, Prosperity and Empowerment were the goals of Bishop Wagner and his cronies. Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Businessmen, Entrepreneurs,Gay Gospel celebrities and Politicians were his claim to fame .Mount Calvary School of Business would be a better name for this money making Ministry. Isn’t it strange that these were the very people that Jesus condemned in the Bible? For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a Rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Luke 18:24. I remember watching Rev. Wagner and his henchmen show up at General Motors on Thursday Nights to pick-up the checks of his church members who were busting their behinds on the assembly line. This same charlatan drove through the southside ghetto in a limousine to beg for money. Rev. Wagner and many other Black inner city Preachers are main cause of the deplorable condition of the Youngstown inner city. They simply pimp the inner city and flee to the suburbs. They are POWERLESS self proclaimed men of god. Having 4,000 people show up for your funeral means absolutly nothing, the whoremongering former Tennessee Titan Quarterback Steve McNair who was shot in the head by his mistress drew a large crowd(10,000) at his Funeral where the Preacher told the all in attendance that this man caught in the very act of adultery was now in Heaven. Go Figure!

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52ytown3(19 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Dateline,

Are you dumb??

Read the first line of your last post. You sound like a fool. Empowerment?? What is wrong with that? lol you are hilarious.

And you are a liar. I doubt very seriously that GM was handing payroll checks to anyone but the person who earned it. lolololol. Wow. what happened in your life? Why are you lying? Come on...let's do better.

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53dateline111(41 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Let’s examine two of your outstanding Mt Calvary members Mayor Jay Williams and Pastor Jason Whitehead, where does Democratic Mayor Jay Williams stand on Sanctity of Marriage and Abortion? I’m sure behind the closed doors of Mt Calvary both of these individuals are against same sex marriage and Abortion. But as Democratic politicians that may some day run for a statewide offices, both of these so-called men of God will cast their votes in support of same sex marriage and abortion. Or risk not being endorsed by the Mahoning County democratic machine. These are wealthy intelligent Godless men who are strong publically but weak when it comes for standing for God. What man of God Christian Pastor sends his children to Roman Catholic schools! Did not Bishop Norman Wagner teach these individuals about the idolatrous Roman Catholic Church? Religious hypocrites.

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54alumni(10 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

People please don't get caught up on these blog sites. These people on here are a bunch of racists. Who cares what they say. If they hate it in Youngstown so bad leave. Why do they care what happens.? Why are they so concerned about the blacks on the Southside of Youngstown? No one has to justify to them their education, their church life or anything else. Let them be miserable on their own they must be to always have something to say. Nobody knows how they are living you can say anything when hiding behind a computer it means nothing. They live for this, ignore it. They want you to come on here and debate back and forth don't do it.

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55dateline111(41 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Get Rich or Die Tryin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Bishop Curtis James Jackson III "AKA" 50 cents. It's all about the "Money"

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56DaBoyPG(3 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Some of y'all sound so stupid! A lot of you on here talking bad about a man that is 1. deceased and 2. YOU DONT KNOW!!!! I grew up in Mt. Calvary. I've know Bishop since I was 4. I went to Calvary Christian Academy. That man tried to better this city by BUILDING PEOPLE!!! That's why today Youngstown has some success stories....and many have come out of my church. Doctors, lawyers, surgeons, a slew of business owners, 4 BISHOPS, an NFL player, and THE MAYOR!! Why are you so focused on the money he makes?? Get off yo butt and get yours!!! They hold a business dinner EVERY YEAR to talk about the church finances so the church knew where EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR was going! The church knows Bishop's annual salary as well. They never kept that a secret. God's people are SUPPOSED to prosper!!! He gave us the tools to succeed as God instructed him. It's up to US to turn it into prosperity! He flew in from Kansas on NO SLEEP just to perform my wedding.......that's just the kind of man he was. I know what excellence is because of Bishop Wagner. I drove to Youngstown from Atlanta, GA (12 HRS INTO A SNOWSTORM) to be at his funeral. Would've been disrespectful for me not to cuz he taught me and my family so much. You betta watch who you put your mouth on cuz while u diggin for dirt, we just might find your bones!!! Funny how you wait till the man dies to run off at da mouth!

And as MykeeG stated, y'all ain't ready for millionaires at all!!! I grew up on the South Side and I have many classmates that are DEAD now cuz they had money and somebody that didn't have money didn't like it. Stop hatin and get on ya grind!!!! One of Bishop's cars was a gift from the Young People of the church since y'all so worried about what he was driving! And you wonder why people have to leave Youngstown to succeed! Bishop didn't have a chauffer either (saw somebody type that, that's wrong too!) I know his armor bearers and adjuctants personally, grew up with them so i know what I'm talking about. STOP HATIN ON A MAN THAT ISN'T HERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF!!!

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57DaBoyPG(3 comments)posted 4 years, 5 months ago

....and another thing. You guys act like Canfield is so far outside the city. I can drive to Mt. Calvary from his driveway in about 12 minutes WITHOUT SPEEDING!! Go to a big city and see how much you will have to drive to get downtown from the suburbs! Small town mentality will get you absolutely NOWHERE!!!

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