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The Constitution provides a better guide on religion and property rights than does fear



Published: Wed, August 18, 2010 @ 12:00 a.m.

Franklin D. Roosevelt told a trou- bled nation in 1933: “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.”

Those words ring true today, at a time when the United States faces its greatest economic challenges since the Great Depression, at a time when we remain involved in two far-away wars, remain under a threat of terrorism and at a time when the demographics of the nation are changing.

Uncertainty and change feed fear the way oxygen feeds a fire.

And so it should not be surprising that the specter of a mosque being built at Ground Zero in New York City has provided kindling for fear mongers and political opportunists to stoke a bonfire of intolerance. That a mosque would only be a small part of a large Muslim community center and that the building is located blocks from the former World Trade Centers appears to be irrelevant to the debate.

Equally irrelevant, to those who see the planned construction as a threat to America is the fact that virtually nothing is more American — at least in theory — than religious freedom.

This nation traces its roots to early settlers who were fleeing religious intolerance. When it came time to adopt a Constitution, one of the five freedoms ensured by the very first amendment was freedom of religion.

Into the breach

Recognizing that, President Barack Obama said last week: “As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances,” he said.

What conservative could possibly argue with that? It is a statement in perfect accord with the First Amendment and with private property rights that were protected by the common law even before they were prescribed in the Fifth Amendment.

And yet, Obama was widely criticized not only by his political opponents but by many in his own party who were eager to distance themselves from a president who made a statement that ran counter to the polls.

Defying logic

Ascribing evil motives to all Muslims based on the actions of radical contingents is neither fair nor logical. Catholics were not judged by the rantings of Father Charles Coughlin. Jews were not judged by the zealotry of Rabbi Meir Kahane. Protestants are not judged by the picketing of Fred Phelps, the minister who shows up at the funerals of soldiers to demonstrate his intolerance for homosexuals.

Why, then, are so many Americans willing to ascribe to Islam the hatred that 19 radical Muslims and their handlers acted upon on Sept. 11, 2001?

It is because too many Americans are able only to see Muslim Americans as different. They are as different today as the Irish were a century and a half ago, as the Italians and Hungarians were a century ago and as black Americans were a half century ago.

Last one in

In each of those cases and in many others, the newest to arrive on the scene were seen as a threat to the status quo. Each new group was defined as a threat to the America of its time. And yet, against the conventional wisdom of the time, America has assimilated each new group.

And it has done so most successfully when it has adhered to the clear intention of its Constitution.

It is easy enough to fall victim to fear. Roosevelt himself did it nine years after his first inaugural address when more than 100,000 Japanese Americans (and smaller numbers of German and Italian Americans) were sent to internment camps after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Even Roosevelt forgot the second half of his famous sentence that described the paralyzing dangers of “nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror.”

What’s in a name?

Are there terrorist out there and among us? Certainly. Some of them are, no doubt, Middle Eastern, with names that ring strange to the American ear. And some of them have had names like McVeigh and Nichols and Kaczynski. Most people don’t know what religion those terrorists may have held and they certainly wouldn’t bar the construction of a church based on any denominational connection.

Likewise, no Muslim should be barred from building a community center — with or without a mosque — based on the actions of people who happen to claim the same religious affiliation.

Certainly there is room for argument that the building of a mosque near Ground Zero will offend some sensibilities. And there’s the other view, that such a mosque will be a testament to the Constitution that makes the United States of America unique.


Comments

1Nonsocialist(710 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

I must admit I've developed very low expectations from President Obama. I've accepted that he's inexperienced and inept, immature, sensitive and vindictive, an extreme narcissist, radically liberal, and has a low opinion of America and Americans.

Then I saw the first video below, and I became quite surprised. My interpretation of the video is that he holds absolute contempt for the religion he claims to worship (Christianity). The second video is added to supplement the first.

What is going on with this guy? I don't care if he's Christian, Agnostic, Muslim, Jewish...any of those faiths could produce a strong and effective leader for America. But why all the weirdness; the Rev. Wright, Father Flager, having George Stephenopolous correct you that you're a Christian, trashing the bible...? Why all the lies regarding his Chicago church? Most readers here are familiar with his families Muslim faith...which again is fine...but mixed in with all else....this guy, to put this as gently as possible, is an enigma.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Kh-x...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2o2fK...

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2WarrenRicheyKid(166 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Good article. Two corrections: It's not a mosque and Ground Zero is not the location. The religious community center will be two to four blocks away, depending how you count your New York blocks.

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3piak(508 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

There was an old saying: The last refuge of a scoundrel is to wrap themselves around the flag.

Now I see the scoundrels are wrapping themselves around the Constitution! What hypocrisy!!!

If this is your editorial stance on the Bamster, then we know this country is in real trouble. For now!

November is coming! The poor economy, the slipshod handling of events worldwide and the arrogant "in your face" attitude to the MAJORITY of American people on a lot of social issues will be enough. IF there is not political chicanery a la Acorn or Democrat ballot stuffing/vote falsification, November will be the laxitive that begins a healthful cleansing process.

Fear? Anger? The administration need only look in the mirror to see who caused it.

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4Heartland(38 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

GW Bushster devastated this country in four years. The public didn't care and elected him again. If Obama is to be re-elected he has to mess up on a huge scale as Americans like losers like Reagan and Bush for president.

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5author50(1121 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Ho many Mosques already exist in New York City? Hundreds, maybe thousands. Muslims have many places to worship -- so their right to pray isn't being affected one bit.

The Mosque at the Ground Zero site is a terrible idea.

Whats next, showing sensitivity by building a shrine to the Nazi's near a Concentration Camp? How about a plaque near Pearl Harbor that says the Japs weren't all bad. Maybe we should say we're sorry for hanging the commandant of Andersonville?

The Constitution doesn't protect all free speech. For instance we can't yell 'fire' in a crowded movie house and we shouldn't build this Mosque near Ground Zero.

Want to show some compassion, start with the American Indians.

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6WarrenRicheyKid(166 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Above is the first amendment of the Constitution of the USA, also known as the Bill of Rights.
If you don't agree with it, then go back to whatever dictatorship you came from.

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7northsideperson(361 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

When they captured cities in the middle ages, first thing they would do is build a mosque to celebrate "Allah's Victory". It has been suggested that the reason why they want a mosque and Islamic center so close to Ground Zero was that they want to "mark their territory".

I don't know that this is the reason ... does anyone have the demographics of the neighborhood, to see if this makes sense for the "locals" ? If the area doesn't have substantial Muslim population, I would question.

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8walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

"Why, then, are so many Americans willing to ascribe to Islam the hatred that 19 radical Muslims and their handlers acted upon on Sept. 11, 2001?"

Probably because most Americans see that in the news that Muslims from the Middle East don't care about anyone that is not Muslim. And, by the way, just in case you missed it, they hate Jews and want Israel to become Palestine. They also see the enormous power and influence the Jewish people and Israel have over the US govt. So, many Americans, right or wrong, view tham as a threat.

While it may be their right, it may not be the wisest choice. It's my right to wear a hooded white robe, but would I do it in South Central LA? It's my right to wesr a #6 Miami Heat jersey to a Browns game, but is it wise? So, have the courage of your convictions. Just don't ask me to protect you from your idiocy!

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9exposed(66 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

triumphalism or coexistence?

http://www.urbanelephants.com/index.p...

we cannot be politically correct

it is fair to ask whether islam is a peaceful religion as the ruling elite suggest

from its history the answer is no

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10Woody(451 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Islam is not a religion. It is a way of life, it encompasses religion, politics, government, laws, etc. That the leader of this "Community Center", refuses to recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization is central to the attitudes of the backers. This is what Islamist do, they build monuments at the sites of their victories. Think Spain.

Nobody is saying not to build the Mosque, just don't build it there.

I think if I lives in NYC, and this thing gets built where they are planning to build it, I would go every morning and wrap a strip of bacon around the door handles.

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11exposed(66 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Here is another article that is well written

http://www.nationalreview.com/article...

The beauty of the internet is that we can read opposing views and are not stuck with the mainstream media

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121970mach1(1005 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Funny that editorial starts off with FDR quote, he who interned American citizens and refused to sign an anti-lynching law.

The whole issue with the mosque is not whether they have the right to build it; everyone agrees they do. The issue is is it good judgment to build it there.

If their TRUE intention is healing, they'd build it someplace else as the people who they claim to want to help heal have said they prefer. But their true intention is to aggitate and be provocative. Their Imam has made some very inappropriate statements about September 11 .This is not designed to be helpful.

The editorial here is nonsense. Would Vindy cheerfully be calling for 1st amendment rights if someone wanted to make permanent display flying Confederate flag next to MLK's grave? I'd hope not, even though it would be "legal."

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13Freeatlast(1989 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Islam is not a religion. It is a way of life.
Does that mean that Christianity is just something for Sunday ? And we should not live our lives by it. WOW is that new and not what I was taught for years .

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14Woody(451 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Last I checked, the Bible does not command Christians to Kill people that are not christians.

The Koran requires that of Muslims. It instructs them to convert or kill the infidels.

I am off to draw some pictures of Muhammad.

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15cambridge(2918 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

In my perfect world we would take a square block or two in that location and build a mosque, a synagogue, a church, a temple and a place of worship that represents every other mainstream religion.

In the center of it all we would build a community center run and shared by all of the religions involved.

This could never happen. Not because of the leaders or the congregations of the religions involved, I believe they would welcome such a plan, it would be shouted down by people that don't practice the principles of any of these religions. An example of those people can be found in the posts before mine.

Another option would be to ban any building or community center with a connection with any religion too exist in Manhattan.

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16WarrenRicheyKid(166 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

From the Book of Joshua:

From the Old Testment of the Christian Bible, Book of Joshua, describing the destruction of the city of Jericho:
20 So the people shouted, and priests blew the trumpets; and it came about, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, that the people shouted with a great shout and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight ahead, and they took the city. 21 And they utterly destroyed everything in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword. (NASB)

The point isn't that the Christian religion is violent. Rather, every religion has violence at some point in its history, even Buddhism. There are Christians who play with rattlesnakes to prove their faith.
Do all Christians play with poisonous serpents?

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17palbubba(662 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

So much talk so little knowledge. No prayer in school, at football games,etc. Constant lawsuits prohibiting display of the Ten Commandments, Nativity scenes, etc. Give me a break with the "freedom of religion" bull. It is political correctness plain and simple. Bottom line another terrible editorial written by a terrible editor published in a terrible newspaper.

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18walter_sobchak(1749 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

It seems to me that the terrorist Muslims are trying to paint over their violent acts and beliefs using the brushes of Muslims that are peaceful and loving.

But, show an image of Mohammed and you receive death threats and are castigated. Meanwhile, Christians must view a picture of a crucifix in a glass of urine and are told we have to accept it since it is art. Jews have to listen to anti-Semites proclaim that the Holocaust was a hoax and was exaggeration but Muslim terrorists in prison for crimes complain that they are being "tortured" by their guards while they are being interrogated. I'm living in a world I don't understand.

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19Freeatlast(1989 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Please read the whole Bible( old and new) before you make judgements . Most likely it is not what you think . I have three times and each time I get surprised.

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20Silence_Dogood(1214 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

WARRENRICHEYKID
Depending how you count GROUND ZERO.Are you aware of the FACT that the landing gear from one of the planes landed on the roof of the building that stands where they want to build this mosque. In my eye's that would BE ground zero.

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21mgourley(32 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Leaving all the ancillary politics aside, I wholeheartedly agree with this editorial. Probably the first time I have agreed with any editorial in the Vindicator.

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22HaydenThomas(208 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Woody and people like him like to falsely say that the Koran commands Muslims to kill the infidels. Just as people misquote and misinterpret the bible, people like Woody do that to the Koran because it feeds their biased opinions. The Koran only tells Muslims to react violently when invaded by infidels.

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23Siouxi(122 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Their entire "religion" is based on hate. The only reason they want this built there is to celebrate their victory over us infidels.

To point to our constitution as a reason to allow this is idiotic. Our constitution was not written to give rights to those who would take ours away.

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24onthetown(252 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

I agree with this editorial.

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25leftyompton4life(79 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Im sick of kissing the a$$es of other countries...Im sick that we have to accomodate everyone else in the world....

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26Eric(196 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Accomodate everyone else in the world? There are plenty of Muslims born in this country. Maybe building a Mosque next to ground zero isn't the best idea, but it is their right. Just like it is a person's right to hang a Confederate flag in their living room window.

And great point Freeatlast...Christianity SHOULD be a way of life.

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27Woody(451 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Hayden,

Think you need to reread the Koran. I think you need to look at Spain in the early ADs when it was taken over by the Muslims. Shoot even the NYT agrees, look at this article from the 2008 about Obama.

www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12...

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28Woody(451 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

“O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” (Sura 5, verse 51).

“And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah DESTROY them; how they are turned away!” (Sura 9, verse 30).

“And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.” (Sura 2, verse 120).

“And KILL them (the unbelievers) wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.” (Sura 2, verse 191).

“Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.” (Sura 3, verse 28).

“And guard yourselves against the fire which has been prepared for the unbelievers.” (Sura 3, verse 131)

“And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open ENEMY.” (Sura 4, verse 101).

“O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).” (Sura 9, verse 123).

“Surely We have prepared for the unbelievers chains and shackles and a burning fire.” (Sura 76, verse 4).

“O you who believe! if you obey a party from among those who have been given the Book (The Jews and Christians), they will turn you back as unbelievers after you have believed.” (Sura 3, verse 100).

“And their taking usury (interests on money) though indeed they were forbidden it and their devouring the property of people falsely, and We have prepared for the unbelievers from among them a painful chastisement.” (Sura 4. verse 161).

“Surely Allah has cursed the unbelievers (Jews, Christians and followers of other faiths) and has prepared for them a burning fire.” (Sura 33, verse 64).

“And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Apostle, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers.” (Sura 48, verse 13).

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29Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

We don't need a mosque there to memorialize the magnificent nineteen who died on 9-11-01 . We still mourn the thousands who died at their hands !

http://undhimmi.com/wp-content/upload...

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30Eric(196 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Hey rudy56 you are the one who is dumb. I live in the SOUTH and those flags are EVERYWHERE. They even plaster the back of pickup truck windows.

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31city_resident(498 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

I don't think it's a good idea to build this mosque/community center at this site. But, really, how can they legally be prevented from doing so?

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32TB(1167 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

Thank you for a well-written editorial that correctly calls forth the Bill of Rights.

Try to remember which president called our Constitution "a scrap of paper."

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33n2wishin(8 comments)posted 3 years, 8 months ago

I have no problem with the Bill of Rights and a Mosque near ground zero, I'm just sayin' don't be surprised if a couple airplanes fly into it.

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34stoutmaster(28 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

It is amazing when the constitution is brought up by the left when it is convenient. I agree they have every right to build it even if it is in poor taste. I also agree in the freedom of speech to have a conversation as to why they shouldn't build it. My question is:Why isn't the constitution brought up every time congress gets a bill passed? For example: the health care bill? I didn't see this opinion writer defending the constitution over it.

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35Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

The left says that Jesus in a manger scenes are not allowed . The mosque and Ground Zero is allright and we should allow it ? Yep, makes sense ! Down with Christianity and up with Islam . However, the lefties have never been associated with rational thinking . Let them build that shrine to the magnificent 19 who attacked us on 9-11-01 on a barge in the bay overlooking NYC .

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210...

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36TB(1167 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

That's a good question. It seems that one party only likes to claim it is following the constitution to a letter, excepting when it bends it for its own uses as well...the patriot act and free speech zones come to mind as recent examples.

This issue is EXTREMELY clear cut when it comes to the bill of rights. It's not about party but what is right. There is no gray area.

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37Eric(196 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Stan, you are comparing apples and oranges. The mosque is being built on PRIVATE property that is zoned for such a building. A Christian church is free to build as well on property they own that is properly zoned. The church is then free to have Jesus and a manger scene. What you are referring to is religious symbols (e.g., Jesus and a manger scene) displayed on PUBLIC property. Would you like to have a giant statue of Buddha displayed in the neighborhood park? I sure wouldn't, but that is what you are opening us up to by allowing religious symbols to be displayed on public land.

Generally Conservatives support the rights of private property owners. Being a Conservative such as youself, I'm surprised you don't agree.

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38CassAnn(252 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

The mosque saga is neither a democratic or republican issue, but rather one that reflects on our Founding Fathers. Lose the separation of church and state you also lose religious freedom and political freedom. Every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." - George Washington "The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.' - James Madison

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39WarrenRicheyKid(166 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

The first Roman Catholic churches built in Philadelphia in colonial times were hidden from public view, Old St. Joseph's for one, because "papist" houses of worship offended the Protestant majority. Let's not slip back to those times.

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40Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

The Catholics weren't involved in attacking or killing anyone . We weren't attacked by Christians on 9-11-01 .

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41cambridge(2918 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Stan....You might want to read up on the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and the Catholic church and it's connection with Hitler.

While your at it try and keep up with the centuries of rape against children and the cover up by the clergy including the pope.

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42LtMacGowan(622 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

I'd like to point out that as some one who has actually served in Afghanistan to fight radical fundamentalists (which are dangerous no matter what religion they belong to). I fully support their rights to build a mosque where ever they want. I served in the military to defend the constitution, subsequently their right to build a mosque and worship freely.

I read a good comment about this the other day, the guy said that no one went on a campaign to ban building churches near the Oklahoma City Federal Building that McVey (who has a christian fundamentalist wackjob) bombed.

Also to answer the people who say its dishonoring the people killed in 9/11, there is a damn strip club closer to ground zero than the Mosque will be. Strange times when naked girls = ok, Religion = evil. Not that I have anything against naked girls.. Just hypocrisy.

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43LtMacGowan(622 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

I forgot to add that I'm also proud I live in a country where they can build a mosque there. That we respect all faiths and ideals.

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44WarrenRicheyKid(166 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

"The Catholics weren't involved in attacking or killing anyone . We weren't attacked by Christians on 9-11-01, " says, Stan.

Let's see: In Merry Ole England, home of most of the early colonists, Catholic Queen Mary, Bloody Mary,...

"Mary's first act was to repeal the Protestant legislation of her brother, Edward VI, hurling England into a phase of severe religious persecution. Her major goal was the re-establishment of Catholicism in England, a goal to which she was totally committed. Persecution came more from a desire for purity in faith than from vengeance, yet the fact remains that nearly 300 people (including former Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer and many of the most prominent members of society) were burned at the stake for heresy, earning Mary the nickname, "Bloody Mary.""
http://www.britannia.com/history/mona...

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45Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

WarrenRicheyKid :

Now where did the Catholics cause any slaughter in the states ? However the Islamics caused a mass slaughter on 9-11-01 . Today they want to build a shrine for the magnificent 19 suicide attackers at Ground Zero .

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46cambridge(2918 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Stan The Man Unusual.....Your twisted logic tells you that because a religion other than your own wants to build a place of worship it is "a shrine for the magnificent 19 suicide attackers at Ground Zero."

Since you constantly defend the Catholic church, using your logic that means you favor the church's relationship with Hitler and the Nazi's and you align yourself with the child rapists, the clergy that protects them and the temples they build in their honor.

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47Silence_Dogood(1214 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Yes they have a RIGHT to build it.
The trade unions also have a right to not take part in the construction of it.
Good luck trying to build something in N.Y. City WITHOUT the trade unions.

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48cambridge(2918 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

What makes you think that people in trade unions don't believe in freedom of religion or don't have Muslims as members?

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49Silence_Dogood(1214 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

cambridge, it is a naive world that you live in.Time will prove my point, and I don't necessarily agree with what the unions will do.

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50Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

cambridge :

I don't align myself with the Islamics and the destruction of America . Hitler by the way was loved by the Islamics for his killing of the Jews . They still worship him to this very day . I don't support the building of a shrine to the magnificent 19 nor do I support what they did on 9-11-01 .

Let them build that shrine on a garbage barge in the bay overlooking NYC .

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51Woodley(26 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Besides those who came to this country for religious freedom, were also theives, murderers, and criminals. The original inhabitants of this country were lied too, deceived, and murdered. Yhey were pit on reservations and their rights taken away. More recently, when America could not defeat Japan, two atomic bombs were dropped and when the first Bush could not win in Desert Storm the second Bush along with Channey devised a lie and murdered Sadam. What if Japan would stop dealingwith us behind the atomic bombs? Thank God that ALL of white America does think like these decendants of the theives, murderers and down right racists crooks that first landed on these shores.

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52LtMacGowan(622 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

If I had to I'd drive up there myself and lend a hand to build it. It might have been along time ago and I don't see how my skills might help but I was a Union Textile Worker, I know a lot of my union brothers feel the same way.

There are union contractors that will help build this community center, just as there are 9/11 victims & family groups supporting it.

This country is based on religious tolerance for everyone, from Christianity to Islam, to Atheism. A terrorist attack no matter how horrific should never change that, or no matter they've already beaten us.

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53Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

Woodley :

"Besides those who came to this country for religious freedom, were also theives, murderers, and criminals."

On 9-11-01 they did not come for religious freedom but for death and destruction . They stole the lives of the innocent and this makes them thieves, murderers and criminals .

The sons of satan who attacked us on 9-11-01 have their supporters who are not for religious freedom but sense the smell of victory in the air at Ground Zero .

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54RealAmericanPatriot(56 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

I would encourage anyone who has not to visit NYC and Ground Zero.

The greatest city in the world is not like Youngstown or anywhere in Ohio for that matter. Seeing the immense size and scope of lower Manhattan and the eclectic mix of people who walk the streets there would open the minds of the anti mosque folks.

Also, what is worse? The death of 4,000 innocent Americans? Or the defiling and raping of 100,000's of innocent young boys?

If you think that a mosque for moderate muslims is a shrine to jihadist murderers then an elaborate Catholic church is a shrine to sadist, rapists, priests all over the world.

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55Stan(9923 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

RealAmericanPatriot "

"Also, what is worse? The death of 4,000 innocent Americans? Or the defiling and raping of 100,000's of innocent young boys?"

So 9-11-01 was good because homosexuality is rampant in this country ?

I view the thousands who died on 9-11-01 as innocents . We don't need a shrine to be built at Ground Zero as a tribute to the magnificent nineteen who did the slaughter .

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56cambridge(2918 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

It's already there and has been used as a Muslim place of worship (Mosque) for the past year. Get over it.

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57RealAmericanPatriot(56 comments)posted 3 years, 7 months ago

What are you trying to say stan? Child rapists are innocent because you say the priests are gay?

5 year old boys who are raped aren't innocent?

The only people who have made these 19 "magnificent" are you and your ilk who have a fetish for 9-11.

As a christian, raping 100,000 children, stealing their innocents, and turning many of them into offenders themselves and is a similar evil to killing 4,000 unsuspecting people.

Of course 9-11 is sort of a contest to you. You get off on it.

I wish President Bush had been able to keep this country safe. 4,000 of our fellow citizens didn't have to die if he did his job.

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