Ohio public-pension funds refuse to release their data

No Loki,No tickee ! It seems you always look at the Private Sector for help. I'm a tradesman an we have annual reports sent to our house. Which I'm very thankful for. How else can you see how your (FUND) is doing? Our administrators signs the summary and that's that.And your case it's different because you (RELY) on the Public Sector for funding. I as a (TAXPAYER) want to know if there has been (GAMING THE SYSTEM) going on! With these percentages that your asking for seems something is going on! And it's not (KOSHER)!Show us or there will no increases from the Public. You not to be trusted until then Administrators!!!!

Easy solution, don't give the money grubbers a dollar of tax payer money. They already get more than they deserve. That is the simplest solution I can think of, but have you ever known elected officials to do anything the simple easy way?

Continue to hold their feet to the fire, WE THE PEOPLE are waking up to the crooks in govt

Freedom of information - the citizens of Ohio have right to know where their tax dollars are going. Needs to be a campaign issue for Stricknine to disclose the truth so we can all get mad. We need CHANGE in Ohio and the current group of politicians are not doing it for us - vote them out.

It's about time the newspapers published the salaries and benefits of all of their employees and retirees. As a subscriber to the newspaper, I pay the salaries and deserve to know.

glbtactivist, how dare you think that you have a right to know how YOUR money is being spent!!!

The Vindy is getting downsized like a lot of other newspapers due to a reduction in advertising dollars. I wonder if that "downsizing' is being shared by all employees of the Vindy? Vindy, you just might owe it to the people that pay your salaries to set a example!

Waiting to hear from you.

The golden public troughers don't want the information in the public domain. But, it wouldn't be too difficult to calculate since their salaries are easily retrieved and ARE public information.

Get Boardman salaries for 2008, 2009, and first half 2010 here.

http://www.boardmanfacts.com/Links.php

Kotheimer and another Boardman township golden trougher who regularly provides No BS here constantly try to derail any effort to let the public see that they are sucking the PERS/STRS/SERS systems dry. Their latest scam involves retiring and then getting rehired by the same entity. I guess when public dollars are involved, there is never enough for them. Ask Kotheimer the double dipper. (retired from the BPD and rehired in zoning. Thanks Brad) Finding out what these golden troughers are making in retirement can be calculated if the newspapers wanted to do the legwork. All they need to find out and it's available is the FAS. (final average salary) Multiply that by the 2.2 factor (sometimes 2.5) from the various retirement websites and perform the math. For instance a cop in Boardman whose FAS is $90,000 and has 30 years of time would make approximately $60,000 in retirement not including his health care that can easily add another large sum to the tax payers costs.

It's no wonder they don't want the information revealed. The numbers are simply stunning and the tax payers are in the dark about what this will cost them today and in the future.

I forgot to add that another trick the troughers use is overtime. Anyone close to retirement is deferred to when overtime is available so that they can pad the FAS number and increase their take at retirement time. As I said, the tax payers aren't privy to the little crooked deals that get made to improve the public sector golden trough at the expense of tax payers.

Boardmans response is to put an additional levy on this Novembers ballot. They want another 3.5 million so that they can provide even MORE money to keep the golden trough well funded. Do we really want to give these people another 3.5 million with their inability to stay within a budget already a failure?

Look at these salaries! The average salary of a cop in Boardman is around $90,000 and with benefits approaches $130,000 per person. The FD is not far behind and the Roadies not far behind the FD. Is it any wonder Boardman is bankrupt?

http://www.boardmanfacts.com/Links.php

Read this article. Public pensions are going to strangle the tax payers who don't have nearly as sweet of pensions if they have one at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/07/you...

The golden trough will soon end.

Perhaps we're expected to follow the Pelosi approach, you know, ya gotta pass the bill to see what's in it. In this case it appears that we're supposed to pay additional taxes before any info is provided. Please vote against any additional taxes and stop the escalating costs we taxpayers are asked to bear.

"It's about time the newspapers published the salaries and benefits of all of their employees and retirees. As a subscriber to the newspaper, I pay the salaries and deserve to know."

ahahaha YES!

I'm not sure, outside of double-dipping, how someone can GAME the system. Every job probably has overtime or additional duty provisions that allow the employee to make more money, but that is money for a service rendered. It's not like people are getting paid more for doing nothing.

There goes the double dipper Kotheimer and Brad Calhoun lackey telling us how the poor golden troughers are only going to be taking $2400 to $3800 per month from the already underfunded and over promised tax payer teet. Tell us KK, are YOU one of the anomolies? Perhaps sucking in the neighborhood of $5000 a month from tax payers who will be lucky to pull $1500 a month from social security after they are forced to work until 70! Nobody in Boardman is going to ONLY get $2400 a month from the golden trough supplied by we tax payers.

Then lets talk about the lump sum payments of $50,000 and $80,000 for unused sick and vacation time at the time of retirement. The chief will have a good year when he cashes in the retirement, the lump sum, and the rehire at $60.000.

Even the POOR souls who work in the secretarial functions and the lower tiered public sector jobs are going to get far more than the poor suckers who pay for the slop the pigs get.

Tell us KK how much your retirement is? Or is that private information for the anomaly crowd?

This is intolerable,..

I've said it before and here we go again. See we can't expect the criminals to adopt what has to be done because there's many that's preying upon the flaws to benefit them personally.

See this is a ongoing problem that there's number of things that have to be done to remedy this and a wealth of other breaches to the taxpayers bankroll.

1. The immediate recourse is to not give them another taxpayer damn dime. Until the books are open for review to assess the validity of the request and risk of the loss.

I'm aware of the law that was manipulated all to hell by Bob Taft to orchestrate mass distortion and absolute theft by embezzlement.

Thus it unquestionably has to be revised and amended with a meritorious challenge that the autonomy has been abused and oversight and accountability has to be restored.

With the amount being requested an emergency injunction has to be requested and remedy the problem at a later date.

2. That remedy being taxpayers have to petition to demand open book accountability of all pensions for adherence,

To include placing a stronger " forfeiture " of pension condition in the agreement of city, county and state service. As more mandated and enforced law than mere guideline that's been repetitively discarded.

PART II

If you look at the pensions of corrupt sheriff's, judges, commissioners and the boatload of city, state and county criminals.

You'll find a wealth of non deserved money and benefits being allocated to those whom violated the taxpayers and their duties,.. THAT'S one of the things being shielded here.

Until those measures are implemented you'll have corruption by design by orchestration friendly immunity.

When it comes to taxpayers money there can be no immunities granted nor any autonomy of accountability allowed.

We've seen enough of how it's been manipulated. Where now it's come to a point where we can no longer afford such criminality. To continue to devise extortion methods to make us pay and keep us on the hook.

See it's no more than eradicating the liability of a indefensible double standard here.

Where we as taxpayers are held to a standard of forfeiting all such benefits. If we take to stealing from the company and or subversively undermining stockholders.

Thus these measures are no more than enforceably holding city, county and state employees to that same standard of dissuading them from trying to bilk the business.

To put that to the test. I challenge all concerned taxpayers to jot down the names of the corrupt officials that beat the system on both ends. Being both salary and pension after crimes committed were exposed.

Then take a rough guesstimate as to adding up their collective sum of pension costs. That we continue to pay them for what amounts rewarding them for defrauding and criminally victimizing us.

The yearly retirement pay and benefits costs for just one corrupt judge and a couple commissioners.

Is a dollar amount that can fiscally run a few entire small annex's of city or county government for that same year.

Now if that doesn't make sense to you, you're either a direct culprit variety criminal or a dependent there of such the unsavory taxpayer unfriendly sleazeball.

If taxpayer dollars are involved then maybe we need an independent accounting company look at it and report back to the state so that we know there is no mismanagement going on. No matter what all tax dollars are accountable.

@angrytaxpayer

You're delusional, desperate and now I'll debunk you,..

See you and the Dick Morris crowd are the same Bush / Cheney blowhards that not only railed for corporate friendly and middle class killing bankruptcy laws. Right in the middle of orchestrating a false economy with mass fraud in the form of sub prime mortgages,.. how ironic Mr. Moronic.

See that was your same pitch while you escorted the fraud friendly and over utilized deregulation, outsourcing and lie based private profit wars that ran us all into a depression,.. by design.

See the only way you can get " esteemed " out of a Dick Morris. Is by either placing him in a petrie dish to allow a proctologist

Or by steeping him in hot debate where the very treachery filled Tea kettle for crackpots. That you as such a senseless Faux Neus brand teabagger like you just got caught with your hoof on the handle of.

See I'm overjoyed that you even had the nerves to just try to serve him up as natural, organic and taxpayer friendly which he's absolutely NOT.

He's a deranged despot of criminal insanity and he's got a delusional despot like you on the hoof as being a sheep in that serial of senselessness heard,..

Now how's THAT for perspective from an Independent. Whom happens to be a peoples advocate. That also just so happens to know a lot more, than you and a pack of Dick Morris's that make up that entire faction of failed re-branding your fraud party Teabaggers,..

If you care to dispute that by all means lets have a open forum discussion. Where we speak to this issue and let the people decide who's the real deal in regards to solution's for themselves,..

This has NOTHING to do with any need for state agency bankruptcy addendum or orchestration you dolt.

This has to do with revising the autonomous concealment blurb that's allowed this to go on for ages.

To include far more mandated enforcement order of forfeiture to lessen the taxpayer liability. Of any continuation of being forced to pay a loyal service pension. to a disloyal pathetic pilfering panhandling problem in a former employee status.

By all means let's discuss this openly,.. if you dare.

Despite all the good points raised, NOTHING is going to happen. Ohio is a "Closed Shop State". Unions, both public employee and private unions are mandated. The state constitution can be amended in this matter, but it will be almost next to impossible to do. The money both private and public employee unions can raise to counter this (by buying off the right legislators) is humongous. Also you'll the dominant party and the media against you. It ain't gonna happen.

About all that could be done is to negotiate down the demands for pensions, unused vacation and sick time or change those rules. And tighter control over the trustees of the townships and the city's labor negotiators. And you'll also run afoul of national labor laws as well. All this crap will hit the fan, BIG. It ain't gonna happen.

Something to think about: Back in 1921 when Germany was in turmoil, with Communists fighting against the Stahlhelm and the Freiwilliger Korps, both veteran's organizations, the first president, Friedrich Ebert, called in the head of the Reichswehr, Colonel-General Hans von Seekt. He asked the general, "Tell me, will the Army follow me in bringing order to Germany?" Von Seekt, looked at him coldly and said, "No, Herr Praesident, they will follow ME!" The moral of this story is, you're gonna bring the Feds, with all their power down on this state if what we know are the right moves to make, are tried.

The key will be in altering the State Constitution. Anyone have any ideas on how?

KimK,

You can hate the messenger, (BJ) but you can never silence the message. We are taxed to the hilt and the over abundant wealth being captured through the methodical manipulation of the taxpayer is coming to an end.

Education is King, and the taxpayers are getting wise to the double dipping along with all of the other shenanigans going on with the government pension systems.

The gall of them looking to the taxpayer to bail them out to the tune of 325 million a year for years to come? They should take it on the chin like the rest of us have.

Keep it up Bill, they can only threaten you, they would not dare do anything physical. you have already outed out the mouths that continue to defend the indefensible actions of the government unions, and their comrades in public service.

Aparantly, KK is one of the anomolies since he didn't post his pension payout. Look at the outrageous salaries on my website.

www.boardmanfacts.com

Looks like most of Boardman is an anomoly. All paid for by using the DeBartolo and other inheritence money.

The typical Boardman Employee response is to refer back to when I applied for the IT coordinator position. We all know how well that experiment went. About as well as the substation, CALEA, and the cooked clearance.

Time to reign in the Boardman Employee golden trough.

“We are not seeking to expose any individual’s personal information, but to examine the trends and patterns that may have contributed to why the state’s pension systems are in trouble,” said Susan Goldberg, editor of The Plain Dealer.

Goldberg is overlooking the obvious. The state pension systems, along with just about every pension system in the US took a big hit when the economy tanked.

The members of the "Ohio News Organization" also neglected to mention all the proposals on the table to shore up the pension funds. I can only speak for what I know, the STRS, but it's likely the others have similar plans in the works. Among the STRS proposals:

1) Longer time on the job before you can collect the standard benefits package--an additional five years minimum, along with age restrictions.

2) FAS will be based on the top five not three years.

3) Severe reductions or elimination of COLA

4) Major med/prescription cost increases. We're looking at 10%+ for next year, and many already pay 40-50% of actual plan cost.

5) Increased employee/employer contributions to STRS to be phased in over five years. This comes out of the paychecks and benefit packages of education employees. The papers imply this is a taxpayer bailout--in reality it's part of the employee salaries/ operating budget for the school districts. You can argue that the "source" is ultimately taxpayer money, but it came out of my paycheck. My current STRS benefits are a result of paying into their system for almost 40 years.

Hey, I'm a retiree living on a fixed income and also question any taxes that come along. But it seems like the Plain Dealer, Vindy and the others are bent on creating headlines from a small number of individuals who allegedly played the system. In the process, they're condemning a retirement system that, for the most part, works.

BTW, it's none of your business who I am, where I live, or how much I earn in retirement (which really isn't all that much). I applaud Nehf and the STRS for protecting my privacy.

Hey Rudy, you are absolutely correct, the Vindy is a private company and does not owe the public any info on salaries. I suppose that you didn't see that I was trying to provoke a response. Took 10 hours before anyone saw that I was comparing private to public companies. One group makes money and the other just costs money for the most part.

As I have stated on a number of occasions, I don't take any of this forum stuff too seriously but instead just enjoy a good joust from time to time. These forums are very entertaining.

Have a good one!!

The plan is to whip up fever against state employees so that the thieves can further rob pension plans.I don't believe in retire rehire or "double dipping'-hire someone new who needs a job.

How ever,I have first hand knowledge of the privatization folks stealing pension funds.They want the public who doesn't know this to get ticked and go along with thievery.It is a set up.

Pretty cute play citizens off against one another and steal.The top of the state and union food chains are in on the game .Don't fall for the dog and pony show.

The only reason they are insolvent if that is true and it maybe it is because the same corporations and banking elite I have spoken of before are having at it again.Wake up.

The same thing has happened and will continue to happen to Social Security-they are quite greedy.But it is all the citizens and workers faults right.How stupid.Divide and conquer is still alive and well.
Create the problem and implement the solution they desire.