US civil-rights panel blasts Youngstown hiring policies

probably best to hire the dummies first and leave the smarter ones unemployed. that way everyone will just FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEMSELVES, right? "Yes you can, hope and change and all that. A new society, led by the morons.

Hicktown USA,..

Now let it be no wonder why Youngstown is a stone aged rust belt relic that get's no national support,.. what a disgrace !!!

To hire using two lists is so racists it's indefensible. Here it is 2010 and you've got an obscure pocket of clan boys pulling a twisted stunt like that and expect prosperity and harmony,..

What are they of the belief that there's some division of right and wrong? Or think there's some genetic barometer differentiating solid character, good judgment based upon race standardized tests?,.. or just wanna keep their checks for ensuring organized crime channels remain in tact.

I mean there's more than enough blame to go around here and aside from rejecting the Mayors and Law Director's requests.

Chuck Sammarone has been on council for over 25 years not opposing the racist practice.

John R. Swierz is actually a retiree from the fire department so he's been well aware of this his entire career.

Annie Gillam herself tag teaming off her husband Artis has been on council for more than enough years to have addressed this matter.

Carol Rimedio-Righetti is actually running for a more empowering office and hasn't even addressed such an ordeal sitting on city council?

The rest of the members as best I know are newbe's and can't really be held as culpable as those seniors,..

Folks there has to be a change in that mix and there's no two ways about it. Male, female and regardless of race they've been failing the area for self serving checks and they need to be shown how intolerable their lack of leadership is.

See this is a prime example of stating where many of great minds and character can and has been born in the valley. But it's intolerably ignorant things like that which contributes to why they damn sure don't stay,..

I mean beyond arcane that's not only constitutionally illegal. But even more so it's dysfunctionally facilitation of racism, sick, demented and twisted. Helping, guiding and keeping youngstown a real chithole destined for doom by such deplorable design.

I strongly urge when voters take to the ballot this November they remember who's been upholding such a disgusting double standard,.. OUT WITH SUCH INCUMBENTS !!!

One List with the highest scorer getting hired in that order is the only fair way. Yes that means that many minoriities would be eliminated from ever getting a civil service job, but then those are the breaks in life. Get yourself educated and you too can pass a simple civil service test.

The only way to correct this is to get rid of civil service testing all together and hire an HR department.
If that is not possible, bring in an HR compliance officer to do the hiring after the Civil Service test is given.

This reminds me of a time when I went to Columbus to take the Civil Service test and after the completion of the test, as we were all exiting the building, one woman said in general to all within hearing, " I got you all beat, "cause I passed the test, I'm a woman and I'm black." She was right. She probably got one of the jobs, but with that attitude, I would not call her a "civil" servant.

Just as it is illegal to ask a person's age when applying for a job, the application and civil service exam should also not be permitted to make reference to a person's race, ethnic background or gender. That way only the best candidates, based on performance and qualifications will be selected and no one will have a bitch and say they were discriminated against. It's the way it ALWAYS should have been. If you can't make the grade, you don't get the job.

In some ways the two list method is just about the same as what the Mayor suggests - but the Mayor's way would be Constitutional. Having taken a few of these "simple" Civil Service tests (although not for police or fire dept. positions) I know that the top score is rarely hired. They hire from a list of the top 10 scores. Recently the practice of hiring by qualifications has been used for positions requiring definite credentials. (no test at all)

What Councilmember Swierz contends that we check what other cities are doing has already been done by the Mayor and the Law Director - no change in policy will result in law suit and major expense to the city.

The real unconstitutional policy practiced by the city government is the fact that people in the 4th and 7th wards have less than half the voice that people in the first ward have - the population is so skewed since the last redistricting in the 1970s. These wards should be re-districted after each federal census but probably for self serving reasons they have not.

Also, why do we still need 7 people on city council when we have less than half the people we used to have.

This is so stupid, it's hilarious.

These silly federal laws (civil rights) and state laws (residency) don't apply to Youngstown. You see, Youngstown City Council is way smarter than everyone else. They have a grand scheme that only they can understand. It's all part of their "Youngstown 2020" theme........"lower the standards and bring racism back".

It is absolutely disgraceful for city council to even to consider, let alone decide, to keep such an absurd 1950's policy in effect. They should all be ashamed of themselves.

I would like to hear their reactions if Austintown or Boardman governments decided to implement a separate list for white males and minorities. The two lists would strictly be used to ensure fairness to all.

Where is Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? They should be OUTRAGED that such an infringement on civil rights is being made to this day. When are the marches and demonstrations going to happen?????

@VINDYAK

I sense you're reprehensibly a race baiting liar with a strong sexist sickness,..

That said it's far more than just this one lie you've crafted to opportunistically float in such a balloon boyish type manner. But you have the tendencies of routinely trying to depict yourself as offended and or victimized.

Where time and time again either some democrat, some woman or person of color is to be depicted as the culprit that infringed upon you.

So I detect you as a serial liar with no sense of reality, the truth isn't in you and one with a twisted perspective of self that assumes someone, anyone or society as a whole owes you something.

If some woman did gloat on her confidence in having aced the test. See in your scenario regardless to what color this fictional lady was it's not her fault you failed to make the grade,..try being more realistic and self responsible.

That said also stop crying and lying and try to fit the description of an adult. Before you try filling the shoes of a man for starters before you go tubing more tests and shamelessly looking for ways to imply others to blame your inadequacies and incompetency on.

@dd933

I applaud your input and I too find no reason the district's aren't routinely calibrated to more accurately reflect the shifting populations.

Nor do I understand why there are still 7 city council seats and an 8 member body. That was via inception from a currently outdated demographic in a now vastly depopulated town.

I think city council has just developed a problem via this public awareness taking a good look at what's being rendered for the wages they cost.

For which now it's up to the bright minded citizens to fix it and get the area headed in the right direction without the incurred expense of retaining some of them.

@UnionForever

You're priceless,..

Although priceless as a timely example for being so clueless and worthless. But lets agree that you are what you are as such a dysfunctional dummy and it's plain as day you're not smart at all nor by any standard of sensible reasoning,.. allow me to school you.

That being via your own doing and redundancy of utter rancid ridiculousness. You're now just that dumb as to so unconsciously, unquestionably and unknowingly display how imbecilic you are.

See via your super stupidity and self induced profundity of dumbness. It's clear that you hilariously somehow assume you'd or another like you to have some intellectual advantage or educated intellect that's superior to those of color?,.. LMAO !!!

To which fella I'm here to tell and assure you that you bear no such figment nor pigmented superiority. Thus by your wild eyed ignoramous effort to harbor such a ham headed hunch you're even dumber than I initially detected you were as initially just presuming you to have been just a bias ply liar,.. you're not just a mere liar intellectually you're so insufficient and morally indigent you're incidiously insane.

Be it known that Jim Crowish 1950ish segregation type slant didn't and doesn't favor any equality. Nor does it promote nor afford the best applicants to be selected to fill the positions regardless to an individual of color's degree of education or qualifications,.. and look what it's done more too than in anyway for Youngstown.

See by your fitting the exact mold of the actual existing example of and impetus for. What an immensely talented, gifted and brilliant artistic stage and screen legend named the late great Carroll O'Connor.

Whom depicted the dysfunctional dynamics and debilitating effects of " dummy-ism ". Theatrically in a fictional enactment of a character named Archie Bunker on a sitcom named,.. All in the Family

Where not to mince words fact is the mass infestation of those like you are whats wrong with the area and cleaving to such self induced problems that created a now poverty stricken, ignorancy plagued and crime riddled Youngstown. Which is accomplished by things exactly and specifically like that 1950ish segregation era testing and hiring policy that we're commenting about.

Which ironically you don't even have the presence of mind sense nor general aptitude awareness. To see let alone understand what it's done to plundering the social and economic environment and substandard structure you call home,.. and let me tell you there dumb dumb that takes a lot of conscious and unconscious super stupidity that you've displayed.

"Minorities and women do not typically score as high on the written tests as white men, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified, he said"

Just not as smart !

Let's double down..

"The commission suggests Youngstown offer scholarships and training opportunities to allow applicants to better prepare for the civil- service written test."

Of course this will only be available to Minorities and Women, White Men need not apply.

"Council ignored the advice of Mayor Jay Williams and Law Director Iris Torres Guglucello to change the policy in February and opted to keep the status quo when it hired nine firefighters. "

Now for the life of me I don't know why the Vindy has to be so disingenuous and leave out the most important aspect of the Mayors proposal.The civil service is there to take the politics out of the hiring practice. Every last reporter at the Vindy KNOWS that the route that the Mayor would take( the route recomended to Council) would leave the hiring wide open to political abuse. The Vindy knew this then and they know it now so why not be HONEST about it.

@Silence_Dogood

You're recklessly repugnant as an impulsive interdiction of your own absolute lying ignorance,.. you incredulous halfwit.

See via your serially spewing your absolute stuck on stupid stammering salutations and sad sack variety soliloquies.

It's apparent that unlike the rest of us here in your indifference you don't want the best the area has to offer to be selected from without such an egregious impartiality coming into play in the process.

You've foolishly angled as to lie in effort to allege a racial and gender superiority and proclaim. That somehow white males are proposed to be discriminated against via a standard and non partial test being embraced,.. and broadcasting your absolute idiocy and ignorance in the failed effort.

See beyond your being such a manic mealy mutt mouth madcap and concerted damned fool. You're postured as an angry misguided misfit discovering the vast majority of those of us weighing in on this.

Resoundingly see's this reprehensible finding as detestably indefensible, unjustifiable and without any tolerable merit of any honor that bears any support.

For which in a bipartisan manner without reserve or hesitation we're crossed party lines, denounced racial barriers and not been swayed by favoring nor disfavoring by gender.

To have collectively expressed disfavoring ALL senior members on city council male and female regardless to race or party. Are duly recognized as such abject frauds and absolute failures regardless to their party, race, gender or age,.. pick a card to play now.

So where aside from running roughshod over you and your rancid ridiculousness in regards to making sense in this matter.

I think this discovery has created such a unified awareness within the populous. That via a unified accord and demanding better representation.

Some of if not all of those senior council members as such sad sacks will be unseated in regards to the forthcoming election process that's afforded to reflect public order.

The Mayor and the law director wisely and resolutely suggested and requested abandoning the double standard test in favor of being as sensible, sane, equal, legal and forthright.

As all other provinces and jurisdictions in the United States other than Louisiana that got sued and penalized for holding steadfast on practicing the same unconstitutional process.

So let the record reflect that you've lied and senselessly tried to stir up more divisional confusion. That no way in hell anybody with any sense, moral standing or human decency can respect, appreciate or support,.. and now like it or not THAT'S exactly what you begged to be told.

nunya the azzhole
You have a serious DRUG problem.

With that said let me clear up a thing or two for you you simple minded Shakespearian half wit. The reason they have two lists is because the Women and Minorities don't pass the test( with the rare exception) with a high enough score to be in the top ten as is required with allmost all Civil Service test.This is not an opinion you half wit it is a fact, look it up for yourself .
All you have to do is read YOUR own words to see that you don't even have a clue as to WHY it is wrong to have two lists, you said ,and I quote,"To hire using two lists is so racists it's indefensible. Here it is 2010 and you've got an obscure pocket of clan boys pulling a twisted stunt like that and expect prosperity and harmony,.." Now it is clear to every one reading YOUR words that you think this is a bunch of WHITE BOYS doing the discriminating by YOUR use of the inflamitory use of "clan boys".
Now tell me nunya the racist gate keeper how it is not racist to hire someont that placed 147th on a test and then bypass someone that scored 3rd. on the same test because and ONLY because of the color of the skin of the low scoring applicant.
Reverse the situation just for fun. Lets say a Black Male scored first on a test but was not hired, but instead someone that scored 158 th got the job because he was "WHITE" you can be assured of a few things. One, Jesse Jackson and his side kick Al Sharpton would be in town protesting.Two,There would be a civil rights violation investigation done by the Justice Department.Three, the Black man would sue and win millions of dollars.And lastly the White man would loos the job and be rightly replaced by the Man that scored FIRST on the test.
You need to put the thesaurus down and THINK about what you read before you comment you HALFWIT.

@StoogeSA1

You're idiocy is very distinguishable and hilariously appalling,.. you bear the character traits of a lab rat.

See in contrast I'm not of the rodent variety and I'm quiet successful and can buy and sale you 100 fold if such were of interest,.. you're best borrowed for the only use you're fit for.

See as a manner of sharing cerebral gifts aren't granted nor received by mistake, attained by any misgivings nor possessed with any remorse either,.. you hath not such a distinction and spank you very much.

Which is attributed to my vast experience, due diligence in sound thought process, wholesome spirit and non self serving values,.. I know you can't fathom such a tranquility.

However, and regardless see unlike you I know life is a mere experience that doesn't last forever. So the goal and key to enrichment is to engage others with sound sense and genuine spirit.

For which is key to making a positive difference and impact with the time we're destined to be here in mortal state.

Thus ignorant partialities like sexism, racism and a quest to forge a superiority and inferiority imbalance is of no use nor interest to me.

I'm man and not one of bearing neither cowardice, greed, deceit, inferiority nor dishonor. Thus I want all others to live of such an understanding and not toil in an abyss of abominable vulnerability nor forsaken greatness for foolish greed.

I guess in essence I'm so far advanced in reach, depth and understanding that you feel compelled to see if you could tempt or interest me in employing my gifts in manners of destroying you via the many ways, methods, means and manners I have to my disposal.

Such is not my interest and I more astutely use you as an example for others as to witness what not to falter to becoming as the mistake you'd chosen to make for yourself.

Which is a flexing of sorts to show how easily you're to be handled without striking you. That just so happens to leave a profound presence that assures you.

That if destroying you were in my interests it'd be mere child's play variety task and yet an act of unnecessary abuse that's unwarranted,..

See in a manner of real life super hero's with your possessing such the array of self induced afflictions. Clearly you liken me to Hercules, Batman. Superman and the likes.

Which leaves you battling an internal insecurity knowing that if I ever took the mind to have my dominant way with breaking you. There's not a thing you or anybody else on earth could do about it,..

Thus as a hospitable man speaking to you in the most basic of compassionate manners of candid inquiries.

Allow me to ask what did you really want to be when or if you'd ever allowed yourself to develop and grow up little boy?

I'm sorry, but I can't take it anymore. Nunya, the more you try to sound intelligent, the more idiotic you come across as. I read your posts, and just shake my head in disbelief. All of the wordiness makes absolutely no sense. If you are as educated as you say you are, you would have proper spelling and grammar.
"See in contrast I'm not of the rodent variety and I'm quiet successful and can buy and sale you 100 fold if such were of interest,.. you're best borrowed for the only use you're fit for.".
It should be "quite successful", not "quiet successful", and "...can buy and sell you...", not "buy and sale". Please, please, please go back to the third grade and correct these grammatical mistakes. And take a lot of the posters on here with you.

I feel a "New Haven" style law suit coming on :)

I want to start a pothole patching brigade and everyone is prequalified if they can get a grip on a shovel . All we need now is some stimulus money !

SkyKing310B said it best...one list, no race indicated on application/test results

@jr99

Oh Junior now comes the shame of it all huh June bug,..LMAO !!!

Don't cry to me about your being such a problem for yourself there Spongebob Airhead.

Because you had just as much chance and opportunity to attain an education and independently think for yourself. Just as much as myself and everybody else had and it's evident you blew that opportunity off years ago,.. you STOOGE !!!

So see it's hilariously clear you're now merely a beneath a dime a dozen commodity as a penny a pound super stooge variety. Who's internal inferiority complex and lack of any sound education.

Are now humiliating you as such a downcast dummy that doesn't matter to anything or anyone of far more relevance,.. got that?

Thus like all dysfunctional despots in the face of encountering those of more character, sense and esteem.

It compels you to spring into irresponsibly { and laughably } seeking to cite others to blame for your pathetic plight and deplorable disposition,.. it was a choice you made you apocalyptic idiot.

Now in an after actions review see how quick, easy and simplistic my education allowed me to diagnose and dispatch you there you moronic misfit of the crying cretin variety,.. Hmmm?

Question,.. you still think your having chose to be that uneducated class skipping, booze gurgling, dope head drop out that's made such terrible choices for yourself is still a cool move now you two bit, second rate, bottom shelf no count clown.

See as a manner of accommodating you. NOW you have a reason to cry and a reason to blame me. For if nothing else but for my having no problem identifying you as the absolute know nothing, nobody loser you chose to be,.. you demoralized dimwit of circus class dingbat quality.

@Silence_Dog-do

You're crushed,..

Where it's obvious you've honestly, candidly and accurately been called a halfwit so many other times before in your existence that it causes a vindictive

having dismantled you in a warranted method of walking you like a neutered dog there mutt mouth. It was by your insistence that I'd placed you on display as such a stymied stooge to be singled out,... Presto change-O there you serial simpleton.

Now in a responsible manner of aiding in your reassembly and rehabilitation. Might I suggest you try a 12 step program in a repetitive and continuous manner without cessation,.. you're not my problem.

See not being one to mince words with you, you defiled derelict.

Be it known now you bear the presence of a perpetual punchline, speak the utterances of an abominable fool and bray like a harrowing hyena for how you've been so sound and swiftly subverted,.. don't hate thank me you petulant ingrate.

nunya
As he lifts his index finger to his lips he whispers, shhhhh...please go away.......your so boring.

Bottom line, this is racism

"The city hires firefighters and police officers from two written civil service test lists: one for white men and one for minorities and females."

"For several years, the city has hired one minority or female for every two white men for jobs in those departments as long as they pass the test."

"Williams has proposed putting everyone who passes the written test on one list because that would allow the city to pick qualified minorities and women from the list for jobs."

Why do minorities always get the free ride? What happened to the best "PERSON" for the job? Unreal.

Nunya is a 4th generation, professional couch potato, so he has all day to construct his gems of "wisdom" to pour down on the rest of us.

@SA1

Quick question,..

Where I know you're extremely busy getting your helmet refitted, unibrow trimmed, lobotomy checked, back shaved, tongue scraped and retreaded.

In between catching your daily dose of " dummy-isms " from Faux Neus in conjunction with checking to see if your handlers brought you some of your favorite obedience treats.

Like fermented toads, fried bat rinds, stale cheetos, garden snails, de-winged flies, lead chips or some small rodent roadkill for not soiling the flooring and all that intricate stuff.

However,.. is it me or are you actually so rattled that you're resorting to chewing your cabbage twice. In such an obtuse manner of saying the exact same exact thing over and over again?

I mean I know you get spirited when I address you but I'd not like to over exasperate any expense for promoting your soiling your diapers at any accelerated rate there beetle juice,..buddy?