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Obama in Lordstown
Photo: Robert K. Yosay
‘The Lordstown GM plant represents the future of the auto industry and Ohio manufacturing,’ a U.S. senator says.
By DAVID SKOLNICK
VINDICATOR POLITICS WRITER
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Video: Obama at GM Lordstown
President Barack Obama's complete speech at GM Lordstown, Tuesday, Sept. 15, 2009
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Video: Obama's Vindy Shoutout
President Barack Obama's reference to The Vindicator.
- Gallery: President Barack Obama at Lordstown
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President Barack Obama gears up Lordstown for the Cruze.
LORDSTOWN — President Barack Obama’s speech at the Lordstown General Motors complex — touting the facility as an example of American automakers making a comeback — is a proud moment in Mahoning Valley history, elected officials at the event said.
Though there is a long way to go, U.S. Rep. Tim Ryan said after Obama’s speech Tuesday that the Valley is showing signs of economic recovery.
“Every time the rest of the economy is moving forward, our area is always playing catch-up,” said Ryan of Niles, D-17th. “Now, the rest of the economy is not going, and we’re starting a kind of growth here ... Finally, we’re starting to lead the recovery, which I think after 30 years is about time.”
Obama, a Democrat, spoke for about 20 minutes to an audience of about 1,000, primarily workers at the GM plant.
“Because of the steps we have taken, this plant is about to shift into higher gear,” Obama said. “One hundred-fifty of your co-workers came back to work yesterday. More than 1,000 will be coming back to work in less than three weeks as production of the Cobalt ramps up. And next year, this plant will begin production of the Chevy Cruze, a new car that will get more than 40 miles per gallon.”
Obama added that “our economic troubles are far from over. I don’t want to overpromise here. We’ve still got a lot of work to do.”
Meanwhile, behind the scenes, local politicians lobbied Obama to do something about retired Delphi salaried workers who are losing health care and retirement benefits as the bankrupt company organizes.
After participating in a live televised health care forum in Youngstown, Ryan drove Monday night to Washington, D.C., so he could fly with Obama on Air Force One. He took advantage of the flight to lobby on behalf of the Delphi retirees.
“I had a chance to bend the president’s ear on health care and Delphi salaried workers,” Ryan said.
Also on Air Force One was Ed Montgomery, Obama’s car czar. Ryan said he spoke extensively to Montgomery about the Delphi issue.
The Delphi retirees filed a lawsuit Monday against the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. over the issue.
Warren Mayor Michael O’Brien, a Democrat, who greeted Obama at the GM facility, also asked Obama to help the Delphi retirees.
O’Brien said Obama is trying to help, but admitted saving the benefits is “a tough road.”
As for Obama’s speech, U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown, a Democrat from Avon, said the president is correct that “the economy is still in bad shape,” but “this [visit] gives people hope.”
Obama’s speech “confirms what many of us have been saying, the Lordstown GM plant represents the future of the auto industry and Ohio manufacturing,” Brown said.
The Mahoning Valley has been “hit hard by bad economic times for too long,” he said.
Obama’s visit, along with the rehiring of GM workers and production of the Cruze next year, increases people’s confidence that the Valley is emerging from the recession, Brown said.
“The great thing is, this is a national story,” he said. “It’s a place that had hard times, [and] is coming back. The auto industry will lead us out of the recession, and that’s what this shows.”
Youngstown Mayor Jay Williams, a Democrat, was “very impressed” with Obama’s speech.
“The president reiterated the fact that the battle for the future economy of this country is going to be fought in places like Youngstown, Pittsburgh, Warren and the Mahoning Valley; it sends a very clear and strong message,” he said.
U.S. Rep. Charlie Wilson of St. Clairsville, D-6th, said of the event: “It was great. I’m glad to see 1,000 jobs back to Lordstown. I’m excited about the opportunities for this new car we’re building. This is huge for the Valley. He knows where Youngstown is. He knows what we’re all about. We’re working families.”
Mahoning County Democratic Party Chairman David Betras said Obama’s visit shows the importance of the Mahoning Valley.
“It’s a big morale boost to GM, Delphi workers and the community in general,” he said. “We’re important, and not just from a voting standpoint. We’re the backbone of America.”
Betras said he was thrilled with all of Obama’s references to parts of the Mahoning Valley.
“He even gave a shout-out to The Vindicator,” Betras said.
During Obama’s speech, he said, “So if you picked up a copy of the Youngstown Vindicator back in January, you would have seen a headline that read: ‘Worries mount in wake of layoffs.’ A couple weeks ago, you would have read a different story: ‘Good news at Lordstown is good news for all.’ And [Tuesday], you made, by the way, some more good news: I understand that the one-millionth Cobalt rolled off the assembly line late” Monday.
While discussing the $787 billion economic stimulus package, Obama specifically pointed to a bridge repair contract in Canfield on state Route 11, profiled in an article last month in The Vindicator.
“We awarded a competitive contract to a local company [Marucci and Gaffney Excavating Inc. of Youngstown] to repair a bridge on Route 11,” Obama said Tuesday. “That allowed them to avoid layoffs they were otherwise going to make. That allowed local folks to keep coming to work, doing the work America needs done. We’ve got projects like that all across Ohio and all across the country.”
Republicans were less than impressed with Obama’s speech in Lordstown.
“President Obama promised Ohio families that his $787 billion stimulus bill would create jobs, but more than 150,000 Ohioans have lost their jobs since he assumed office,” said Kirsten Kukowski, Republican National Committee spokeswoman. “The president also promised he would turn GM around after his $30 billion ‘Government Motors’ takeover, but sales have dropped 20 percent with President Obama at the helm.”
Closer to home, Mark Munroe, Mahoning County Republican Party vice chairman, said: “It was nice that Obama chose to come here to show support for the Valley, but some of his comments are just not credible.”
Munroe pointed out that job losses continue even after the government took over GM, and “with unemployment rising to 11.2 percent, there was not a lot to cheer about.”
skolnick@vindy.com
ProAmerican (1059 comments)posted 2 months, 6 days agoCambilge, still talking like a juvenile. "Liar, Liar pants on fire"? Are you that liar? Didn't you say we had less than 75K in DC? We didn't storm in DC. We're not Stormtroopers like the SEIU, CamBilge and his socialist queen Nancy Pelosi call us violent, Nazis, troublemakers, mobs, etc. What about their lefto unions like the SEIU who beat citizens up. Of course he thinks that's ok. He told me so but calls US the mob, lol.
andersonathan (385 comments)posted 2 months, 5 days ago Needless to say a Obama propaganda road trip pushing health care that has no details written in stone yet, has been getting more attention from almost every news station and paper in the country.
And they refuse to deal with what some may find interesting. Like the corruption that is not only in one ACORN office but several. Since this time the census have dropped them, Senate has pulled some funding and their is a vote up coming to pull more.
SickofJimbo (51 comments)posted 2 months, 4 days ago Obama conveniently said nothing about healthcare aaaaaaat the GM speech. Oh yea they have the Cadillac Plan for health care insurance (no pun intended).
Why is everybody worried about ONLY the Delphi workers lost healthcare? They could buy health care like everybody else that lost their jobs.
1Marine (18 comments)posted 2 months ago He was in Lordstown? I live in Canfield and didn't get the news!
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Comments
Is this Obama visit because of the noise that Jim Traficant has been making since he quit his meds? Yeah, right Jimbo, Keep Dreaming!
I really love how the Republicans point to lost jobs after this whole landslide started way before Obama took office. George Bush at the helm for 8 straight years of failed policy. Policy that led to a near collapse of our entire financial system and they say that Obama is to blame because he hasn't un-done 8 years of fiddling while America burned.
The above comment shows no knowledge of the financial collapse. What his argument lacks in substance and accepted facts he makes up for with partisan bashing and his own alternate reality.
The financial collapse is due to poor policies over the last 15 years of the Clinton Administration, the Bush administration, Ben Bernanke, and Alan Greenspan. Learn who pushed subprime... it certainly wasn't just Bush... Actually thinking Bush could come up with that stupid idea is crediting him with more than his worthless presidency deserves. He just realized it was a good political talking point and went with it, he didn't actually create the idea.
The idea of sub-prime and affordible housing, by forcing banks to make risky loans to losers started in the Carter presidency.
I don't doubt that is correct. Clinton really started it towards the end of his presidency.
Interesting how they framed it as affordable housing when it was a creation of an asset bubble, making it less affordable.
Timmy Ryan must be dreaming. 15% unemployment in the valley and he says things are getting better? Who is he trying to fool?
We need Jimbo more then ever to lead the valley out of it's depression with new jobs. Please Jimbo run for congress and kick Ryan's arse out of your seat. Ruan is as worthless as a teat on a boar hog.
And here comes the tea baggers PUT EVERYTHING DOWN
@sotired
Kudos!
@hope
Search is at least intelligible and well-spoken. The others are just local fruitcakes ranting the same way they did when clinton was president. ...That all problems in western civilization can be traced to democrats.
I'll give Obama credit, usually the Dems only appear in lock step socialist Youngstown-Warren Ohio is during their campaign b/c they know how loyal, uniformed and weak minded their deciples of socialist are. Of course the Bamster is still campainging.
Hope4thevalley has to call brave Americans Tea Baggers just b/c he lacks the guts to stand on his own.
Yes Barry O was so happy for 150 people returning to work.
And of lately the only places he has been showing up at are AFL-CIO speaking engagements.
2 things he can not afford to toss under his bus Union Labor and ACORN.
Slavkobatich, You've stated facts, and I hope some of the other Vindy's readers are paying attention, because time is running out for America, and the land of the Free. Obama wants to be the Fidel Castro of the USA, and that's why things are happening as they are.
What America really needs right now are prayers..... .
"May God Help us to defeat our corrupt politicians, who are our out of control enemies from within."
I love how Republicans are blamed for all job loss. Seriously. Was it not a Democrat that signed NAFTA into law, or is that something we are conveniently leaving out of the conversation? And frankly, with the highest corporate tax rates in the world, is there any surpise companies want to go off shore? When companies are paying upward of 40% on income tax, is there any surpise jobs are leaving Ohio for places down south where there is no state income tax, or going overseas where the rates are lower?
Do we ever really stop and think about the rationale behind these things, or are we going to continue to say "Bad Republicans, evil corporations". It is and always has been Democrats who have advocated for higher corporate taxes, and here is the result of your efforts.
We can talk about the influence of EPA regulations adding to the burden of corporations, and you can bet it was not a Republican that instituted some of those measures. No one else in the world adheres to these kinds of regulations (China and Russia sure as hell don't), so once again we are at a competitive disadvantage because of Democratic meddling.
You want to start taking pot shots at Republicans? Well you better take a damn good look in the mirror before you do, because Democrats are as (if not more) guilty than Republicans on the issue of job loss.
Alexinytown... Please read the note and the information given from Slavkobatich, because he sees the entire picture. Both democrats and republicans are to blame for the black hole America is now rapidly entering.
I did read his note, but that was not directed only at Slav, but also at Sotired for his original remarks. As you said, I will not disagree Republicans have not had a role, but I will not let someone try and lay the entirety of that blame at their feet.
Hey Alexinytown---don't you even know who started the EPA?
It was your good friend Richard Nixon.
NAFTA?---it didn't matter if you voted foe Clinton or Bush Sr. Both of them wanted it
The biggest problem was Bush Jr.didn't learn from it and signed CAFTA,plus the China agreement and wanted one for South America too!
22 million jobs were created during the Clinton administration.
5 million jobs were created during the Bush administration along with the current economy crisis.
Rocky, the Gop and The Dems are guilty of over-regulating the ecomony and our personal lives. We have to reduce regulation, regulatory agencies so we can keep more of the money we earn.
Alexinytown...you did not address the 8 years of Bush either. And in case you haven't realized it before now...it's not the fact that laws get passed...it's what the government does after they become law.
NAFTA is needed but the rules have to be fair for everyone involved. Bush did nothing for 8 years.
If China is allowed to dump steel in the US for the entire Bush presidency and nothing is done to curtail it, who's fault is that?
Ohio tax rate? How many years did Ohio have a Republican governor in a row before Ted Strickland? Seventeen! Seventeen years of Republican leadership and NOW the tax rate is the problem. It's been a problem for a long time but the Republicans covered it up with the use of a rainy day fund. The fund is now gone!
Jobs lost to the south? EPA? Jobs going off shore?
The EPA is there for EVERYONE. Without it we would live in China. Water so polluted that it can not be used. Mercury poisoning of factory workers and fish with 100 times the safe limit. Smog so bad that people have to walk with respirators on. Ban traffic from the city for a month before the olympics! Yeah, the EPA is a bad thing.
Jobs lost to the south...a lower standard of living makes people take lower wages. Where did the term trailer trash come from? The south has typically been a place where an employer can pay lower wages. Of course the taxes are lower because there is no infrastructure in many places. In other words septic tanks instead of sewer pipes. Soon the times will catch up with the south and this problem will take care of itself.
Jobs moving off shore? If you are not a US based company then you should pay higher taxes to do business in the USA. This is a consumer driven society. You have to pay to play. Imports from other countries should be hit with matching tarriffs. And health care should be factored in. If Korea only allows 5000 US built cars in per year and tacks a $5000 tarriff on each one...then we should reciprocate.
And the Teabaggers...or people like ProAmerican. They are the people who believe the US should go back to the 1700's. Strip down the laws, strip down the government. Look close at their movement and you will find they sound a lot like the Taliban. Only thing missing is the beards and head cover.
More Trafficant and less Limbaugh would help with the way the politics are here. Both major parties are trashed--their days are numbered.
I'm an Independent voter whether you like it or not we are the voters who can spring an election.
sotired critizes me for being a Tea Party Patriot and wanting to go backwards. He would rather go back to1917, the Bolshevic Revolution, and all of us know how than ended up. We need less regulation, less govt. agencies and more freedom for entrepreneurs to generate jobs and less confiscatory taxes against the employees they hire.
Cambridge, did the fact that Clinton had a republican congress during the last 6 years of his presidency have anything to do with the 22 million jobs?
Bush had both Pub and Lib control of congress ending up with the libs the last two years. Once again, any impact.
Celebrated the one year anniversary of the Lehman Bros collapse a few days ago. Remember the Maxine Barney show which was behind the financial collapse. Now I know the pubs had control Pub-50, Lib-48, Ind-1 of the senate and a majority in the House but did have a few Arlen Spectors so they knew they were not able to pass legislation to fix the financial fiasco.
Thought I would add that last sentence to save the expected excuse that the pubs had control of congress and the white House. Oh, by the way, here is the clip so you can enjoy the Maxine Barney show one more time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7...
Please comment on it this time. Love to hear your thoughts. cambridge, you love to talk about big corporate bonuses and rightfully so. Comment on the Raines and Gorleck bonuses. Listen very carefully to your girl Maxine (100% loans, no risk).
Dear Pro THANK YOU FOR PROVING MY POINT .
All you can do is put everything down and call names . Go crawl into you spider hole .
sotired-"THE SKY IS FALLING"- "THE SKY IS FALLING".....I am a Democrat, the republicans AND Democrats SCREWED UP! NAFTA was approved by the beloved BILLY-BOY.....EPA was a good idea, untill they do stupid things such as, in California there is a LITTLE fish that needs water, SOOOOO the farms in the area CAN'T have water so the farms are dying(MAKES SENSE)and more..Not a US Company "PAY HIGHER TAXES" and our goods WE SELL over seas will "PAY HIGHER TAXES" and less goods will be sold! I'm a TEABAGGER who wants our country to QUIT BORROWING MORE MONEY THAN IT NEEDS just to buy votes for the next election,AND THEN COMES TO "US" TO RAISE OUR TAXES, and by the way you can you argue a point without showing how ignorant you are with the beards and headcover comment.
I support the TEA party people's general message. The only problem is that they have drawn out every crazy person and they end up destroying the message. Calm down, stop being so angry and then maybe they will see where you are coming from. When someone sounds like they are from an angry mob it tends to throw red flags and no one supports what you say based almost entirely on how you say it.
Very weill said Search The tea party has brought out the nuts . There is some good in most of everything . But to nuts ruin everything with their hate THANK YOU
Search, part of the problem is no one was listening in the first place, which is why many people are angry. You had a Congress and a President trying to ram through healthcare in a matter of weeks without so much as consulting the people about it back in July, so forgive people if they are a little pissed.
Sotired, I will agree on the following points: Taft was a lousy governor, and I am a Republican saying that. The tax rates ARE a problem and have been, and that is nothing new. Strickland has not made any strides to fix it either, and in my opinion he is just as worthless as Taft. Let me put it like this: if the tax rates aren't hurting us, they sure as hell aren't helping the situation.
EPA is out for the environment, first and foremost. I think the environmental lobby generally is insane, however, for trying to force Americans into a situation where we put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage with the rest of the world in the name of an environmental theory (i.e. global warming) that has been disproven as many times as it has been proven.
In my opinion, someone is getting rich off of this, and it'll be in the form of carbon credits while it costs the average American family more money.
I believe in fair trade, as do you. However, would you be willing to pay a premium on all goods for now on to achieve it? Would America tolerate it? I think you have some interesting ideas, some of which I would support.
Jobs going south being a factor of low living standards? Take a good look around you, Northeast Ohio does not rank up there on high standards of living. They go south to dodge the union issue and the tax issue, plain and simple. It has little to do with cost of living, because it is pretty damn cheap to live in Youngstown, OH.
redvert....Clinton could get people to work together and the Republicans didn't have enough votes to override his veto.
Bush was a divider and polarized the country. When Bush was in and the Dem's controlled congress Bush vetoed everything the Dem's put in front of him. His last two years nothing got done.
So basically I would say the main difference was who was driving the ship. I know your a fan of Bush, his administration and his policies but I think his eight years were a disaster.
As far as incompetence and corruption in congress. they should be voted out regardless of which party they belong too. The link below is a small list you might want to comment on.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...
Okay, I think a correct description of the Clinton years would be that Clinton realized that he would have to work with congress in order to get things he wanted and it worked very well for all concerned. Since congress introduces all legislation, including spending bills, where does credit for the 22 million job creation go to Clinton alone? I think the confidence level that industry and Wall Street had with the stability in Washington is what led to the job creation. I always liked the presidency and congress to be controlled by different parties. Otherwise we see a extreme to either the left or the right. I know that my 401 hit that magical number for a short period of time before the bottom dropped out. I was already retired and had rolled it over into a Fidelity Rollover IRA years before so I was able to reasonably quickly move it into a safer position. (when I finally admitted to myself that the honeymoon was over)
I was a fan of Bush during term one, going after Bin Laden. He screwed up when he pulled the Special Forces out of Afghanistan when they were close to getting Bin laden and sent them into Iraq. Listened to the advice that he wanted to hear from Iraqi exiles who had a agenda. Major screwup!
As for your list, these are just the pubs that got caught. List should be longer. Same goes for the libs which I am sure a far right winger out there has a list of. I agree, if they are corrupt vote them out.
I have done my best to reply to your statements.
Now I have posted my Fannie May/Freddie Mac clip a number of times and have never heard any comments from the lib side. Maybe some day!
Hope4thevalley and Cambilge are the reason this valley is 75 years behind common sense (THE NEW "RAW DEAL"). Hope calls Tea Party Patriots nuts and haters and he knows that's a lie. The Tea Parties are populated with well mannered, polite Americans who respect genuine authority but refuse to be bullied by big govt. liars and Mafia-socialist union thugs (SEIU) and the rotten nuts (ACORN) the p..p and prostitute, child sexual molesting, tax evading, ceo bullying, illegal vote registering, illegal alien protecting, tax payer subsidized, criminal, USEFUL IDIOTS being exploited by white super rich capitalist like Geoge Soros who want to enslave the rest of us with socialism. The very people hope and cambilge foolishly support.
You might be right that the Tea Party people in general are well mannered, however not so much on this site I have started to realize.
Calling people socialist thugs isn't going to change their opinion, Pro. Grouping every Obama supporter with child molesters isn't going to win you any supporters.
name of an environmental theory (i.e. global warming) that has been disproven as many times as it has been proven.
Just what news channel do you watch. The glaciers are melting. The Ross Ice Shelf is disappearing
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/vi...
The Russian permafrost is thawing at an alarming rate.
I suppose you will be convinced when the water from the melting icecaps starts to lap around your feet.
Search, I'm just telling truth. Compare Tea Parties to the SEIU and ACORN. The SEIU finances ACORN and ACORN promotes child molestation, illegal immigration, etc. It's the truth.
Ceaman,
The Polar Caps are melting, lol. You have been duped by pictures which don't indicate the truth. So now America is the blame for global warming? What about Red China and the former USSR? Besides, human beings aren't the cause for global warming. It's the sun spots stupid!
I was convinced they don't know what they are talking about when they have consistently switched from global cooling to global warming over the last 100 years... now they say climate change. Although climates have always changed.
I guess this summer isn't enough to convince you Global Warming is BS, all I can say is bring it because we had no summer.
slavkobatich, you are bad! Prepare yourself. You are gonna hear a thing or two from cambridge. How dare you talk bad about California.
I agree, we have to defend America against these Mafia-union thugs (SEIU) and (ACORN). The major media are igoring the condoning of pimping and prostitution, tax evasion (it's ok for them but they want to raise our taxes). America, protect her or lose her. they are financed by the super rich and union members' dues.
EPA = job loss for hundreds and hundreds of Millions of Dollars in California.
Let's see if he has any of these!!!!!!!!
What Obama must produce,
1 Certified copy of original birth certificate
2 Columbia University transcripts
3 Columbia thesis paper
4 Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups
5 Harvard University transcripts
6 Illinois State Senate records
7 Illinois State Senate schedule
8 Law practice client list and billing records/summary
9 Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mother
10 Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)
11 Occidental College Transcripts
12 Parent’s marriage Certificate
13 Record of baptism
14 Selective Service registration records
15 Schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007
16 Passport records for all passports
17 Scholarly articles
18 SAT and LSAT test scores
19 Access to his grandmother in Kenya
20 List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists
21 Punahou grade school records
22 Noelani Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education
You people have been duped!
You must be a racist. lol. What right do you have in vetting the Bamster. You act as if the Founding Fathers gave us a Constitution.
Slavkobatich---you say you live in Calif.? That shows the brains you have.
Wow, this is a lot condensed crazy in one thread...
After the 25th comment it devolved into nothing more than a cesspool of loathing and ignorance.
Common sense is over their head. Loathing = Reverend Wright, ACORN, Nancy Pelosi.
I agree to a point. I believe Ameica haters have infiltrated the govt. just like they did religous denominations, unions (big time) ,political parties (don't we know it) and the media (obvious). We have to keep our eyes and ears open b/c they've declared war on America, her way of life her history, capitalism, the republic and her citizens. We owe it to God, the Founding Fathers, all our war veterans and our children and grandchildren.
^^^I think you two are deranged. You both remind me of that paranoid guy Dale from King of the Hill.
Slavkobitatich--you say you are a member of Mensa???
WOW! Impressive!
Is that why all you do is call people names?
Search..... Ha Ha. You make me laugh. I knew sooner or later you would realize there are some extremely crazy people among us.
That's the difference between people that look for information (rhetoric) to justify their opinion and people that look for information to form an opinion.
Some people are just naturally so negative that they always look for that black cloud inside the silver lining. They live for other peoples misfortune because for some reason it makes them feel better. Just read the posts about how people in their community make too much money, don't deserve health benefits or a pension or lack the education to earn a living wage. I don't know what would even possess someone to think that way.
Your a young man, keep your eyes and ears open along with an open mind, approach life as a positive adventure and it will be one. Approach it in a negative hateful way and you end up like some of our friends here.
Oddly enough slavko, we both support Ron Paul. I voted for Baldwin in the general election because I refused to vote for either Mccain or Obama and Ron Paul endorsed him.
Search....Like I said....!
Paul wasn't on my ballot or else I would have voted for him.
Slav,
Good comments = birther / truther nonsense? No thanks, I dwell in reality only.
Silliness and hostility like that is the reason no one takes the TEA folks seriously. Media bias or not, when you dress goofy and act ignorant like code pink you get marginalized like code pink.
Save that stuff about BHO being a muslim for the shortwave crowd.
slavkobatich......"Tea party people and those that believe as they do stormed DC to the tune of 500K to a million or more this past weekend."
Fox News says: Liar Liar pants on fire.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/...
Search,
I have given you grief in the past for your views in regard to foreign products. I must now apologize. Your posts in regard to this article are clear, concise, and some of the most well thought out responses you have written. I promise to not give you a hard time anymore. If you would though, please lay off of the comments that may directly affect the job status of hard working folks.